Stuff You Should Know - Understudies: Hardest Workers on Broadway?

Episode Date: April 28, 2022

Being an understudy is far more challenging than simply learning the lines of a lead actor in case of emergency. Learn all about these unsung stage heroes today. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey, I'm Lance Bass, host of the new iHeart podcast Frosted Tips with Lance Bass. Do you ever think to yourself, what advice would Lance Bass and my favorite boy bands give me in this situation? If you do, you've come to the right place because I'm here to help. And a different hot sexy teen crush boy bander each week to guide you through life. Tell everybody, yeah, everybody about my new podcast and make sure to listen so we'll never, ever have to say bye, bye, bye. Listen to Frosted Tips with Lance Bass on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to podcasts. I'm Munga Chauticular and it turns out astrology is way more widespread than any of us want to

believe. You can find in Major League Baseball, International Banks, K-pop groups, even the White House. But just when I thought I had a handle on this subject, something completely unbelievable happened to me and my whole view on astrology changed. Whether you're a skeptic or a believer, give me a few minutes because I think your ideas are about to change too. Listen to Skyline Drive on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeart Radio. Hey ya, hey ya, and welcome to the podcast. Hey ya, let's go. So I'm Josh and there's Chuck and Jerry's here and this is the podcast. Ta-da.

What is that all about? That was my impression of Broadway. Oh, I thought that was your understudy, Matt Frederick. I could see Matt Frederick doing the same thing. I didn't know he was my understudy. Is that right? Is he my successor? No, of course not. There is no successor. Ben Bolin was mine on April Fool's Day. Yeah, that was a good one. But we know that wouldn't fly. No, we love Ben. Yeah, of course. We don't want to put him in that situation. Oh, interesting update. So I was just looking, Josh, the reason I thought to do a podcast on understudies is twofold. I was in New York recently and I went to Broadway and saw Neil Simon's Plaza Suite with SJP and Matthew Broderick and the lead roles.

Are they in that together? They are in that together. Wow. First time they have shared the Broadway stage in a couple of decades and I think their first lead performances opposite one another. Real life husband and wife. And it was great and we had a great time. And two things happened on that trip. One, I hung out with Joey Ciara, our good friend. Yes. And Joey was talking about his friend who is a understudy in Hamilton. I believe the touring production, but maybe not who knew like six different parts that this gentleman could sub in for. And we talked a lot about that and I was kind of blown away. And it got me thinking about understudies. But then right after we left New York, Matthew Broderick got COVID just a week or a half or two weeks into his run,

because we saw the last preview and his understudy took over in a play that is almost just two people. Everyone's going to see this real life husband and wife on stage. So when the understudy comes on, it's not great. But I was just looking to see if I could find his name. And as of like three days ago, SJP now has COVID. So they have just canceled through when they're better, which is like another week or so. Gotcha. Which is something, you know, the show must go on is to sort of line in Broadway. And that is the whole idea of the understudy is that if someone is sick or stubs their toe or falls off the stage, there is someone else there that knows the part that can immediately step in and play this part, ideally close to identically as the as the lead or, you know,

even if it's not the lead any any part. Yeah, so I put that understudies are the insurance policies that make sure the show will go on. Right. But after reading this, and Olivia, who did our unsung heroes of the court, she got another unsung heroes of Broadway article here. Understudies and standbys and the swing, and we'll talk about what all these terms mean, they are truly heroes, because it is astounding what they're tasked to be able to do. Right. Like true, they don't save people's lives or they don't, you know, run charities or anything like that. But they are heroes in their own way. They're certainly the hardest working people in show business, if you ask me. Yeah. And it will become clear why, because you might think,

what, you learn a part and if someone goes down, you do that part. Oh, hang on to your hats. It is much more than that. Yeah. Hang on to, yeah, I got nothing. You're about to make a joke. So we are talking understudies, and most people, Chuck, think that when you're talking about an understudy, it is like you said, you just, you know a part, and if the star goes down, you fill in. And it's a pretty thrilling idea, like somebody getting their shot at a big break after sitting in the sidelines, and it can be very aptly compared to that backup quarterback, who literally is sitting on the sidelines, and they get their chance and they show, like, what a great job they're doing. On Broadway, there's the same thing, and that is the understudy.

But there's a bunch of different kinds of understudies. And the one that most people think of is actually called the standby, which is where you are the person who knows every single word, movement, dialogue, song, blocking cue, that the lead of that play knows. And so if that lead goes down, then you stand in. But you can go potentially years without ever getting that call. Like over the run of a place, a multi years run of a play, you might be on stage a handful of times because your job is that specific. You've got one role, and you're filling in for one part only on the basis of some accident or unforeseeable circumstances happen to the lead. So you have to step in. That's what most people think of as an understudy. But in reality, that's actually the

job of the standby. Right. And the standby, you know, if it's like in the case of Plaza Suite, where it is largely two people on stage at all times, you need another, it's probably not going to be some unknown that's going to be the standby for either SJP or MB. And in this case, I did find his name. His name is Michael McGrath. And Michael McGrath is a very, he's won a Tony award. He's a very sort of renowned old school, I think five or six years older than Broderick even, Broadway guy. So in a situation like this, you have a heavy hitter on standby that is just hoping that Matthew Broderick gets food poisoning or COVID. Right. So he can step in there. And I looked up, Sarah Jessica Parker has an understudy too. And it's kind of a shame that

they canceled. But in the case of that, you know, you have to make a call as a production. And when it's your two lead stars in a play of two, it's probably the right call to go ahead and cancel that because there's what you don't want to deal with his a lot of, as you'll see, unhappy ticket buyers, which happens. Exactly. So that's a standby. Right. And that's, they're what the New York Times called the most elite type of understudy. Again, that's what I always thought was an understudy. Right. But an understudy, it turns out, is somebody who is part of the cast who goes on usually night after night. Well, candy, but not always. Okay. But they are also ready to fill into one or more roles, usually a principal role.

That's the understudy. Whereas standby is like, you might not even be in the theater, but you're on call every time that show is on. And you are expected to be within five minute run or drive to the theater. So you can get there because something has gone horribly wrong. An understudy is somebody that has a much more frequently attached position at the theater. And usually it's a role in the ensemble cast. Yeah. I think they're usually in the cast. I don't think it has to be. A lot of this is determined, as we'll see by the actors union for Broadway, which actors equity and the deals they work out with producers. But before we get to those specifics, you also have your swing. And this is what Joey's friend would be a swing

can cover a lot of different roles. And a swing might be like a performer in the chorus, but can jump up there and play Hamilton or Jefferson or Burr at any end. This dude could do that. It is one of the more impressive things to accomplish, I think, because you know all these parts, you know, all the songs, like you said, you know, all the choreography and the blocking, you've got to know as Olivia points out something you don't even think about, which is between between sets, I have to go back and I got to know what costume I'm supposed to be in and who to talk to, who has that costume. Like, you've got to know every single part to be able to seamlessly transition so that no one I mean, they know because they announced like, you know,

in the role of for Matthew Broderick tonight, the understudy will be performing and there's a collective groan. But had it not be for that announcement, in a regular understudy role, you shouldn't be able to tell the difference. No, because it's not, it's not the star, it's not the lead necessarily. Right. It's just, yeah, you would never know. But that is something with the swing. So like, they might know anywhere between five to a dozen of those roles. And like you were saying, each of those roles has different costume changes, different choreography, different words to say or sing. Like, and they know all of those inside and out. And when you start to understand what a swing does, then you start to get what I was saying earlier that they are probably the

hardest working people in show business. Because on any given night, they're ready to go at a moment's notice to do those roles at the drop of a hat. And it's because they've worked so hard up to that point and keep working too. It's not like there's a time where you can stop and relax. As long as the show is running over the course of weeks, months, years, however long it goes, you have to basically keep your engine revving ready to put it in a drive all of a sudden and peel out on the stage and lay rubber from the wings. That's how they always put it in the acting world. So that's the understudies, standbys and the swings. They're also alternates. And this is someone who is scheduled to take the place of one of the actors in that you might be in

Chicago for a three year run. And you're like, I don't do the matinees anymore. We have an alternate that does my matinees. Everyone knows this going in. It's not like a sickness or anything happened or an injury happened. Tickets, half price. So I mentioned the actor's equity and the Broadway producers, they work through these contracts just like they would with SAG or the writer's guild with film and television. And it's all, you know, you don't have a choice on Broadway of how many understudies and standbys and swing that you hire. It's all sort of contractual. You have to hire an understudy for every single role, except for bit players. And in some case, stars, in the case of Plaza Suite, of course, they had understudies. But if it's a one person show,

you're not going to throw an understudy up there because it's really about that one person's, like there may be some leeway there, according to like the production and how they run it. But you're not required to understudy the star. Yeah, they also probably, well, they don't necessarily need to hire understudies if it's a limited run show, like for a few weeks or more. Anything beyond that, though, they probably will need to hire understudies. Right. Or if it's off Broadway or in, you know, a third area stage theater, it's all bets are off. You can do whatever you want. Yeah. You smart hire understudies. Yeah, for sure. One of the other things, too, is that you start to get into logistics because if you're working with understudies,

and they have a regular role in the ensemble, if the lead that the understudy is working under falls ill or sprains their ankle or whatever happens, believe me, a lot of stuff happens on Broadway, that understudy is no longer filling that role in the ensemble, which means now you got to go to your swings. And does that swing have anything else that they were doing that you need to bring another swing in for? Suddenly like UPS route in the middle of a blizzard. It's like my nightmare. Logistics is like, those are the true heroes to me. You say understudies are the true heroes? I think logisticians who deliver things or like reroute planes, I think they're the true heroes because I could not do it. Yeah. And in the case of like a Hamilton

or a bigger show with a bunch of people that are singing and dancing, if you have a flu that sweeps through, let's talk pre-COVID and we'll get to what COVID did to Broadway, but a flu that sweeps through the cast and like three people go down in a week, it's a Jenga game as a production. Because like you said, you're pulling people from one role to another, then who feels that role, then who feels that role? And all of a sudden, you're looking at the stage and you're going, can you dance? All right. Have you been paying attention? Can I rip off of their norm core outfit and all of a sudden they're wearing a tight fitting tuxedo and soft shoes underneath? It's so good. What a story. So let's go back to talking about logisticians. Okay.

But there's an equation, Chuck, that these producers and the director and everybody, although I think it's probably up to the producers, are making when you start to go down the list and you're moving everybody around, eventually you get to a point where the show or the cast doesn't really resemble the cast that the people coming to see the show are coming to see. And after a certain point, it's probably like, so many people are going to ask for a refund or some partial refund or something that you're better off just giving everybody some time off and just cancelling the show for a day or two. Yeah. I mean, Livia came up with some great examples over the years of like when multiple people go down.

In 2016, there was a cold on the set of Falsettos and the lead role, Stephanie J. Bloch's role of Trina went down, understudy went down. And then there was a swing, Stephanie Umo, U-M-O-H, covering different roles, had to take the stage in the lead with a two and a half hour lead time and apparently had to even use the script on stage, but got a bunch of support and cheers from the audience, which, you know, like we said, audiences can be unkind. But my experience with Broadway is that theatergoers are understand this stuff and try to be supportive when something like this happens, even though their expectations and their hopes may be a bit dashed. Like Livia talks about people booing and stuff like that. I wouldn't like to think that happened. I'm sure

it has, but they're all from Jersey. Bridging tunnel, baby. Generally, I think there are more stories of people trying to support the people on stage than go, oh, what is this? I want my money back. Yeah. Like clapping for the person who has to use the script because they're so unprepared, that's a very meta-modernist response to that. Let's take a break and then we'll come back and talk about what kind of money these people make right after this. Hey, I'm Lance Bass, host of the new iHeart podcast Frosted Tips with Lance Bass. The hardest thing can be knowing who to turn to when questions arise or times get tough or you're at the end of the road. Okay, I see what you're doing. Do you ever think to yourself,

what advice would Lance Bass and my favorite boy bands give me in this situation? If you do, you've come to the right place because I'm here to help. This, I promise you. Oh, god. Seriously, I swear. And you won't have to send an SOS because I'll be there for you. Oh, man. And so my husband, Michael, um, hey, that's me. Yep. We know that Michael and a different hot, sexy teen crush boy band are each week to guide you through life step by step. Not another one. Kids, relationships, life in general can get messy. You may be thinking, this is the story of my life. Just stop now. If so, tell everybody, yeah, everybody about my new podcast and make sure to listen. So we'll never ever have to say bye, bye, bye. Listen to Frosted Tips with Lance Bass

on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to podcasts. I'm Mangesh Atikular. And to be honest, I don't believe in astrology. But from the moment I was born, it's been a part of my life. In India, it's like smoking. You might not smoke, but you're going to get secondhand astrology. And lately, I've been wondering if the universe has been trying to tell me to stop running and pay attention. Because maybe there is magic in the stars, if you're willing to look for it. So I rounded up some friends and we dove in and let me tell you, it got weird fast. Tantric curses, major league baseball teams, canceled marriages, K-pop. But just when I thought I had to handle on this sweet and curious show about astrology,

my whole world came crashing down. Situation doesn't look good. There is risk to father. And my whole view on astrology, it changed. Whether you're a skeptic or a believer, I think your ideas are going to change too. Listen to Skyline Drive and the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, we're back everybody. And we are back to talk about mula, simoleons, cash, lettuce, cabbage. What else? What do the kids say in these days? Bread. Yeah, they're bringing bread back, aren't they? Dough, I think it's dough. I can't remember. Money. Well, we'll say cheese. All right. If you are a understudy, again, with the unions, all of this stuff is prescribed how much you're going to get

paid. Even if you don't take the stage, it's not like they're like, well, you're the understudy, you didn't ever make it to the main stage. So you get a pay cut. That is not the case. You get a minimum as a Broadway performer. And this is as of 2018, maybe a little bit different now. I'm not sure if they renegotiated since then, but $2034 a week on an actor's equity contract on Broadway. Yeah. And so some people who are in the cast every night in the ensemble who go on stage every night may actually make less than a swing who doesn't go on at all. And if you stop and think about it, that actually makes a lot more sense because that one person who's going on every night in the ensemble knows what's going to happen that night. They get a chance to create their character

and rehearse and understand it. And as we'll see, understudies, swings, they don't get those kind of opportunities. And yet they're expected to know not just one role, but eight roles and be ready to go on. So it makes a lot more sense. And frankly, I think they deserve even more money than they get because of the requirements of their job. But why would a swing make more? We didn't even say. Because they have to understand and practice and rehearse for more parts. Well, they get paid more. We never even said that. Swings earn additional pay bumps. Oh, I'm sorry. I thought that we had kind of established that in some way, shape, or form. No, no, no, no. Your minimum is $2034 a week. And if you're a swing or an understudy,

you make pay bumps on top of that. Swings get $101.70 or $15 if you're a partial swing. And an understudy of a principal role gets an additional $54.50 or understudying ensemble an extra $15. Right. That makes sense. So take what I was saying before and now move it to like right here because it'll make more sense now that I've said that. But you can understand, I think that it's, I think you should get a bump for every role that you have, not just a bump for having multiple roles, you know? Well, yeah, that'd be great. Like if you are a swing for like six roles, like a hundred bucks a piece. Don't put me on stage. Give me another role instead. I'm sure that we have Broadway understudies listening there. They're

probably like, hey, let's get Josh in there on this next Jungian negotiation. Yeah. Give me a cigar and like a ill-fitting vest and I'll roll up my shirt sleeves and get down to business. Because you're probably the only person that's ever asked for that. Right. It's like I'm a genius. I just came, just give them more money. If you're preparing for this, I mean, they're, you know, depending on who you are as an actor, you're going to have different ways of preparing, period. And Livia found some good examples of what some people have done. There was an actor named Jay Douglas in 2007, a member of Drowsy Chaperone. That is, that's a Laugh Out Loud Broadway title if you ask me. It is. He covered

two ensemble actors in standby, in a standby for four principles. So that's a lot of work. And Douglas would sit in the audience, at least, you know, initially and then sit there with a recorder and quietly record all the movements and then go home and transcribe this stuff and then just study, study, study, basically. Yeah. That's one high-stress job, court stenographer colliding with another high-stress job of understudy or swing, you know? Good job. Good point. So Jay Douglas would take all those notes and create basically like a dossier on each of the characters he was expected to fill in for. And so if he got enough notice, he could like

consult the dossier and, you know, refresh his memory of it. Like, if you're an ensemble actor or even a lead, like, you probably have one script and that's all you need. This, this, like, like Jay Douglas and others would have like multiple scripts and multiple like workups or write-ups on their, on their different characters. That in and of itself differentiates them to an astounding degree. Totally. And then, you know, besides just learning this stuff, all the things that we talked about, sometimes just different accents, you know, that you have to do and kind of bounce between, you also have to be in, in Broadway shape. And Livia found the example of either Laquette or Laquette, Charnell Pringle, who was a swing

on Mrs. Doubtfire, who, aside from learning all these parts over and over again in her mind, was like, you know, doing PT and like physical training and doing voice work because you have to keep in physical shape and you have to keep your voice ready for that kind of stamina that it takes because you may, it may not just be a single performance. You may have to step in for a week or more or you may eventually become that part. Yeah, that's the thing we'll talk about. But there is a possibility that you, you could end up like permanently in that role if, if things work out in your favor. You got to have your, your toolbox ready. Right. Your machine. One of the things I said is, I don't want to make it seem like it's easy to be an

ensemble member of a Broadway show. Of course not. It's, this is the point. It's really, really hard, stressful, anxiety inducing work to do that. And it's work. Like it's definitely craft and the people who do this love what they're doing. But it's also like really hard work. What I'm saying is that if you are an ensemble or a principal and you go out there every night, you have all sorts of benefits of developing your character just through sheer repetition. Over time learning the, learning everything. So it's, it's like rote. The people who work as understudies and swings, they don't get that. They very frequently will have not actually done any sort of real rehearsal before they might be pushed out on stage and asked to go ahead and

deliver a performance that's on caliber with whoever it is they're replacing, even though they've never actually rehearsed that kind of thing. Yeah. I mean, if you are a principal standby, then chances are they call it a put in. Chances are you have rehearsed with the main cast. You've gotten in that costume. You've worked with the orchestra and the show lighting because you know, that's all, that all counts. Like if you're, if you haven't rehearsed this stuff, if you've just done it under just the regular stage lights being on and they're like the musicians aren't there, like everything changes when it's go time and that curtain drops on the night. And if you're not used to that, it's a whole different

situation. But if you are a principal, you've probably done put ins and at least gotten the benefit of maybe a rehearsal or two. I would like to think in the case of something like Plaza Suite that SJP did a full run-throughs with the Matthew Broderick's standby and vice versa, because it's just such a high pressure situation with just the two parts. Yeah, you can imagine. But if you're in a big show, there are no guarantees that you're going to have gone through any rehearsal at all necessarily. Or if you are, it's rehearsing with other understudies and swings and maybe the assistant director with no music and no stage lighting and no costumes,

like on a, like during the day on a weekday. Right. And even during those rehearsals, swings might have to fill in from multiple parts during the rehearsal. Right. So, I mean, just like, just the lighting alone, you got to know the lighting cues, you got to know where to stand. If the light's supposed to be on you, you want to step in just the right place because that's where the lighting person's going to shine that light. If you're rehearsing with work lights, that's a huge disadvantage if you've never done like the lighting blocking. And that's basically like part and parcel with how understudies and

standbys and swings are expected to work at a genuine disadvantage, but they're expected to give, you know, like on-caliber performances with the people who have had all those advantages. Another reason why I say that a hard is working people in show business. I'm picturing a scenario one day. By the way, you might be able to hear hammering next door. There's construction next door. I can't hear it. Okay. I just wanted to let everyone know in case you hear a hammer banging. It was bound to happen because there's construction next door.

But I'm picturing a scenario one day where we're all out in New York with you, me and Emily. We're all having dinner with a big group of people and someone's like, oh, my friend's coming, who's in a Broadway show. And we're all excited. And Emily was a theater girl. So she's a musical theater. So she's like peppering them with questions. And you go, you take like a sip on your martini and say, so how many parts did you play? And the table gets quiet. And they're like, oh, just the one. It was one of the main ensemble parts. And you go, oh, just the one. Interesting. Man, you just nailed your impression of me. And just everyone gets really quiet. And we're like, what's the deal with

Josh? Because they get up and go to the bathroom and I say, he's all about the understudy. And they go, oh. And I'm in the bathroom going like, what did I say wrong? Why doesn't anyone like me? Why did you have to screw up this dinner too, Josh? So Chuck, let's move on. Rehearsals, not good as far as the understudies go. One of the other things that I think we have to mention that you pointed out earlier is that especially with principles and stars of the show, those standbys and understudies are expected to deliver exactly the same performance that the star does every night. They're not like, go in there and do it your way, kid. They're like, go in there and do it exactly the way this actual star does it,

kid. Don't screw up. And there's real reason behind that. It's not just like you're being treated like cattle. The star has done this in a certain way so that other people have come to expect this ad-libbed line that was ad-libbed once three years ago and now is like a regular part of the show, even though it's not in the script. They expect you to say that same line. So you have to know that role, that character so well that you know the character that the actual star has created from the script. That's what they want you to do because if not, somebody's line is going to get thrown off and you can throw off the entire production like that. Yeah. The understudy knows this. So it's not like the understudy thinks, oh, this can be my

chance to really show them what I bring to the role and then their hopes get dashed. I'm sure you're not necessarily doing an impersonation of Matthew Broderick as the understudy. So like things like intonation, you might be able to change it up a little bit. But generally, they want you to do what he does. And we'll talk a little bit more about what COVID has done. But one apparent thing that COVID has done is given a little more appreciation to the understudy and a little bit more of a, well, hey, in certain situations, maybe it's okay for you to bring something else to the role if we talk about it beforehand and stuff like that. Don't surprise everybody. I mean, if you literally have to go on stage, like if someone falls over within

appendicitis like 10 minutes before curtain, that doesn't happen a lot. Usually there's a little bit of lead time. But in the case of, Olivia found this great article from Mental Floss with a bunch of cool examples. There was a matinee of Wicked and midway through the show, Adele Dezeem. Oh, sorry, Edina Menzel. Do you even get that reference? Is that Adele's last name? Oh, okay. That was during the Academy Awards, John Travolta. He famously introduced Edina Menzel as Adele Dezeem.

I knew that he had screwed it up, but I didn't realize he screwed it up that bad. Yeah, he completely made up a first name and a surname. He's like, why is your name so weird? It's great. It's one of the all time blunders. But Edina Menzel fell mid-show and fractured a rib, and Shoshana Bean had to go on halfway through the show. And so there's all this, like, chaos going on to try and get her in there and dressed so the show doesn't miss a beat. And then poor Shoshana Bean is also in the back of her mind, like, wasn't really told what was going on. Just Adele Dezeem has gone to the hospital.

And so this is also in the back of the mind of, like, oh my goodness, what's happened to this person that I've been understudying who I probably have a lot of respect for and maybe have grown close to, but also, like, how hurt is she? And is this going to, is this my big break? Like, all the emotion that comes with something like that is something that you have to just be able to check when you tread those boards. Right. I want to verify for myself and I think every listener who caught it that you said Adele Dezeem the second time. As a joke.

It's not, okay, it was as a joke. Good job. Okay. Just wanted to make sure, because you slid it in there so well that I thought you'd pull the josh and just completely flubbed it. Well, I was going to just leave it in there as a hidden joke to begin with. Oh, well, we'll edit this. When I could tell that you didn't get it the first time, I had to explain. So Karen Quackenbush is another example of that I've read about in a New York Times article

from I think like 2001. She was a standby for Bernadette Peters and Annie Get Your Gun. And the same thing happened. Like Bernadette Peters got really ill with the stomach virus and apparently like was able to keep it together long enough to make it to the intermission. And they called Karen Quackenbush. She was having, I guess, a birthday dinner with her husband down the street and she ran, got into a cab and got to the, to the show just in time to hear everybody booing her when they were announced, when they announced that she would be taking over for, for Bernadette Peters. But that is extremely rare, but it's got to be so dramatic and stressful that those stories are eternally delightful. I could just listen to them all day.

Well, I mean, even though it's basically the same story every time. Yeah. How many situations are there where you're a performer who gets their big break and you're walking into it knowing everybody's going to be disappointed when they see me walk out there? Right. And I have to withhold all of my creativity and mimic the star just exactly as I can. And on that note, Chuck, you want to take a break real quick? Yeah, let's do it. Okay. We'll be right back, everybody. Hey, I'm Lance Bass, host of the new iHeart podcast, Frosted Tips with Lance Bass. The hardest thing can be knowing who to turn to when questions arise or times get tough or you're at the end of the road. Okay, I see what you're doing.

Do you ever think to yourself, what advice would Lance Bass and my favorite boy bands give me in this situation? If you do, you've come to the right place because I'm here to help. This, I promise you. Oh, God. Seriously. I swear. And you won't have to send an SOS because I'll be there for you. Oh, man. And so my husband, Michael. Um, hey, that's me. Yeah, we know that Michael and a different hot sexy teen crush boy band are each week to guide you through life step by step. Kids, relationships, life in general can get messy. You may be thinking this is the story of my life. Just stop now. If so, tell everybody, everybody about my new podcast and make sure to listen so we'll never, ever have to say bye, bye, bye. Listen to Frosted

Tips with Lance Bass on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts. I'm Mangesh Atikular and to be honest, I don't believe in astrology, but from the moment I was born, it's been a part of my life. In India, it's like smoking. You might not smoke, but you're going to get secondhand astrology. And lately, I've been wondering if the universe has been trying to tell me to stop running and pay attention because maybe there is magic in the stars if you're willing to look for it. So I rounded up some friends and we dove in and let me tell you, it got weird fast. Tantric curses, Major League Baseball teams, canceled marriages, K-pop. But just when I thought I had to handle on this sweet and curious show about astrology, my whole world

came crashing down. Situation doesn't look good. There is risk to father. And my whole view on astrology, it changed. Whether you're a skeptic or a believer, I think your ideas are going to change too. Listen to Skyline Drive and the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, we're back. And as I was saying, those stories where somebody gets their big break because the star got sick or whatever, are few and far between. But for the most part, all the stuff we've talked about where the stress, having to keep your creativity, your own personal creativity in check and do mimicry, being on call and never having any idea when you're going to go on. For some people, you're like, I would never want to do that. It sounds

awful. But there are people who make careers out of this type of acting. And it's one of those things where once you prove yourself once, twice, a couple of times, they will call you anytime you want them to. You can be an understudy. You can be a standby. You can be an alternate for the rest of your life because it's so difficult to do that. If you prove yourself, you're in. Yeah, I think there's a lot of jobs in the world that some people view as stepping stones or transient jobs that other people are quite happy to do their whole life. I remember when I first went to LA and when I was 18 and my brother worked on Dear John and he got me off as an extra. Man, I love that show.

Yeah, it was so good. And I was in it. Which episode? Oh, I remember Kurt goes skiing, John. I don't remember exactly what happened. I could probably dig it up, but I play a bus boy in a scene and 18 year old me. I look like I was 12, but I was up there with the extras in between. And this is my first experience with any of this stuff. And I remember these extras that seemed so old to me. They were probably in their 30s. Now that I look back. But they were kind of career extras. And I remember talking to them about that. And they were like, you know, sure, I still audition, but I've like the reality has hit me that I'll probably never make it. But hey, I'm in the union. I've got great healthcare.

I constantly work as a stand in or an extra or a featured extra and make good money. And I know my schedule and like, I'd rather do this than wait tables or something, where waiting tables, that can be a permanent job. I worked with career waiters as well. But under studies, it's like you said, it's not always just a transient thing. You got to have just because you're good on stage and you can sing and dance doesn't mean you can handle the kind of pressures, additional pressures that come with this. It takes a special kind of performer and some people are good at it and they know it and they stick to it. I'm sure they always would want that lead part, but it's not like they're like, oh, if I could just get out

of this understudy thing all the time. No, some people really get off on the additional pressure of not knowing and knowing, like you could be called at any second. Some people like really like that. And then the additional work of having to understand and know all these different parts, like some people really like that. But like you said, a lot of people view it as a stepping stone. And astonishingly, it actually has been a stepping stone. Like sometimes the stars have aligned for people whose names we know today because they started out as an understudy or a standby. And Bernadette Peters, who I mentioned, she went down during one performance. She actually started out as an understudy, I think all the way back in age 13. And then later on, on Broadway with her

first real Broadway job, she was a standby. So she started out. I don't know that she had any moment where she hit it big. I think she just was one of those workhorses who was like, give me whatever job you can. And then just kept going from there and became a star as a result. Yeah. Like as the story goes, she understudied and performed the lead part around about the lead because I don't know. I think the child lead. I don't know Gypsy as well, but played Dainty June filled in and did this. And apparently this, the story goes, Bernadette Peters mom put that on the resume that like she she played Dainty June. I'm curious, you know, this was in the early 1960s about the sort of ethics of doing that now of your resume. Like if you put, you know, played

opposite Sarah Jessica Barker and Plaza Suite, they're like, well, you did that for three days. Like, I don't know if you're allowed to put that on your resume. Right. I mean, or you could point it out like understudy and filled in for so many days. But from the impression I get, Bernadette Peters mom kind of said like, she played this on Broadway. Right. But at least Bernadette Peters had plausible deniability where she's like, yeah, my mom did that. I didn't know this, but Anthony Hopkins apparently got a huge break because he was an understudy to Sir Lawrence Olivier. Yes, in the West End. Yeah. There was a play called The Dance of Death, which sounds like a really odd unnerving play.

It's set in like a remote Swedish island, I think of the 19th century. It's just weird. But in 1967, Olivier came down with appendicitis and Anthony Hopkins filled in for him. And Olivier basically said, he crowned him as like his successor by writing about what a good job he said he walked away with the part of Edgar that was Olivier's role, like a cat with a mouse between its teeth. So that was a huge break for Anthony Hopkins to start out with. And, you know, long story short, hand-belector. Tay Diggs, who famously was in Rint and obviously in TV and films. He was an understudy in the 1994 revival of Carousel. And then Shirley McClain, film legend, Shirley McClain, was an understudy on Broadway in the 1950s as a teenager and

10 days into the main performance, I believe it was Carol Haney fell ill or just fell. Yeah, I think fell. It was an injury in this case. I finished the show, but Shirley McClain had to fill in with about a half hour's notice, screwed up a little bit, cursed audibly on stage because she goofed up and like dropped her hat in one scene. But everyone was impressed. And Alfred Hitchcock came to see that play a few months later and cast her in the trouble with Harry. And she went on to great, great fame. Yeah, and she became, whose mom was she? Whose mom? Whose kids? I don't know. I don't either. I always want to say Carrie Fisher, but that's Debbie Reynolds' kid, right? Yeah, is that what you're thinking?

Maybe, maybe. Who knows? There's another one too, Chuck, that's worth mentioning because she kind of ushers us into the Broadway and the COVID age. Her name is Sutton Foster. She was an understudy. She tried out for the lead in Thoroughly Modern Millie. And she didn't get it. So she said, okay, well, will you make me the understudy to that role? And it turned out the actor who had that role left. And so they turned to Sutton Foster and said, hey, you want a star? And she turned it into, I think, a Tony Award in 2002. Well, fast forward to December of 2021. And she's working as the lead in The Music Man, I believe. And she catches COVID. And her understudy takes over for her, Kathy Voight Co. Yeah, Vo-Y-T-K-O. She took over for, and she did such a great job

that one of the greatest people on the planet from what I can tell, Hugh Jackman, gave a now famous speech singing the praises of understudies in Kathy Voight Co. Did he really sing it? Almost, almost. He had to stop himself, you could tell. But he was talking about, he said something like when she arrived for work today, she could have played any of eight different roles and then went on to basically talk about how understudies are like the thing that keeps Broadway going. That's awesome. And it was because Sutton Foster came down with COVID that Kathy Voight Co. got to kind of step into that spotlight courtesy of Hugh Jackman. And one of the reasons it became such big news was not just because Hugh Jackman gave the speech,

although in large part it was, but also because COVID was just decimating Broadway at the time. And there were shows that were like, you know, having to cancel performances. There were all sorts of understudies and standbys and alternates being thrown every which way. And it was a really hard time. And I think still in some ways is a hard time for Broadway right now. Like you said, Plaza Suite is now is currently dark, right? On hold. Yeah, because of COVID. Yeah. I mean, I think what it did was it really highlighted the necessity and the value of swing and understudies and standbys. I think they were probably, at least it seems just from reading up on it for many years, a little taken for granted, of course, that they would always be there,

maybe under hired. Because Broadway, like a lot in the film and television industry, you are expected to perform sick or injured. Unless you absolutely cannot. It's not like regular jobs. You're like, no, I don't feel too good. I can't go in. It's like, you go in anyway. There was the president of Actors Equity, Kate Schindle tweeted out, and this was about the COVID surge and the slide on understudies, tweeted this. My educated guess is that when employers consistently reject our efforts to negotiate for more swings understudies and sub-stage managers, we haven't even talked about that. Like if you're on the crew and you get sick, someone has to fill in. Because the industry

model has grown dependent on people working sick or injured, it's short-sighted and unsafe. And this kind of forced Charlotte St. Martin, who was president of the Trade Association of the Broadway League, to fully apologize and call for producers to cover their shows adequately. And like I said before, it led to more things like, hey, maybe an understudy can actually bring a little something to the roll. Maybe we shouldn't take them for granted as much. Yeah, Charlotte St. Martin had apparently thrown some shade on the understudies and got called out by Kate Schindle. So I guess from what the New York Times is saying, they are able to, or they're using this to try to make it easier on understudies and

standardized it to give them full rehearsals and actually have the lighting people there during it and make it so that it's just a slightly less stressful job and that there's more of them working. Which is, yeah, that is good. That's an improvement. It's the same thing like you were saying with the film industry, with the transition it's going through now, where it's like, no, you really shouldn't work a 28-hour day every day and just be expected to whenever the director or producer wants you to be there. Anytime there's an improvement like that, it's an improvement for all. Amen to that. The one thing I don't think we mentioned that I think is important is that sometimes you may audition as the understudy and sometimes you may audition for

the lead role if it's not like already set in stone, like Matthew Broderick is going to play this role and that's why we're doing it. If it's just open auditions for the lead role, they might say, oh, you're really good and I'm not going to cast you, but I'd love to cast you as the understudy. Sometimes it goes that way. Yeah. If you want to be on stage, you have to basically be like, I'm not doing this anymore. I'm not taking understudy parts because you can get typecast into them because it's hard to do and not everybody wants to do it. Or you roll the dice that things happen. That thoroughly modern Millie's going to crack her ankle. Yeah, that was that other funny story we didn't get to about someone wrote in. It feels like anonymously to

play Bill that was an understudy that said, you know, I secretly wanted to poison the lead actor because like you don't think about like besides all the work that goes into it, they're like, we could never make firm plans with anybody. We can never schedule anything because you're, you know, you're just on call. That on call life is tough, whether you're a pediatrician or an understudy or a logistician. Very nice. Bring it all back around. You got anything else? Nothing else, sir. Well, everybody, I say go out and hug and understudy a standby, a swing or an alternate two day. Yeah, ask them first. Yes. They may not want to be hugged. Especially if they're not wearing a name tag with the hug dot system on. That's right.

Well, since Chuck said that's right, of course, everybody, that means it's time for a listener mail. I'm going to call this sliding Canada, as always. Hey, guys, love the show. Promise to keep it short. Just listen to the pubs episode, which we heard a lot of people really like that episode, by the way, which brought back tons of good memories of two summers I spent taking Canadian undergrads to Wales. There were many pubs, but I can't not note that Josh said George Washington took his troops to a pub to, quote, toast the British leaving the continent of North America, end quote. Knock knock Canada called unless George Washington was still kicking it in 1931 when the statue of Westminster was signed or in 1982 when Canada's constitution was repatriated.

But even then the crowns representative is still the head of state up here. I realized this is the most pedantic Sam of emails. Never heard that. But one of us has to make use of a PhD in Canadian literature somehow. Love the show. Heard every episode. All the best, Brenna. Very nice, Brenna. That was, we just got taken to school and put in one of those desks that you lift the top on. That's how hard we just got school, Chuck. I'm sorry to drag you along with me, but I'm glad you're there for moral support. I'll be there. I'll just clear the ink well outside and I'll get in with you. Who was that, Brenna? That was Brenna. It was a correction that was smarmy, but also charming and funny, which made it lovable. That's right. So if you want to send us an email like

Brenna did, let's see what you got. Take your best shot. Don't smoke pot or do. You can send it off to StuffPodcasts at iHeartRadio.com. Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts on my heart radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Hey, I'm Lance Bass, host of the new iHeart Podcast, Frosted Tips with Lance Bass. Do you ever think to yourself, what advice would Lance Bass and my favorite boy bands give me in this situation? If you do, you've come to the right place because I'm here to help. And a different hot, sexy teen crush boy bander each week to guide you through life. Tell everybody,

yeah, everybody about my new podcast and make sure to listen so we'll never, ever have to say bye-bye-bye. Listen to Frosted Tips with Lance Bass on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. I'm Munga Shatikular, and it turns out astrology is way more widespread than any of us want to believe. You can find in Major League Baseball, international banks, K-pop groups, even the White House. But just when I thought I had a handle on this subject, something completely unbelievable happened to me and my whole view on astrology changed. Whether you're a skeptic or a believer, give me a few minutes because I think your ideas are about to change too. Listen to Skyline Drive on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts.