Stuff You Should Know - What does a tire company know about food?

Episode Date: January 19, 2021

The Michelin Guide is an institution. But why does the famous tire manufacturer even put this restaurant guide out? Listen in to find out. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey, I'm Lance Bass, host of the new iHeart podcast Frosted Tips with Lance Bass. Do you ever think to yourself, what advice would Lance Bass and my favorite boy bands give me in this situation? If you do, you've come to the right place because I'm here to help. And a different hot sexy teen crush boy bander each week to guide you through life. Tell everybody, yeah, everybody about my new podcast and make sure to listen so we'll never, ever have to say bye, bye, bye. Listen to Frosted Tips with Lance Bass on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to podcasts. I'm Munga Chauticular and it turns out astrology is way more widespread than any of us want to

believe. You can find in Major League Baseball, International Banks, K-pop groups, even the White House. But just when I thought I had a handle on this subject, something completely unbelievable happened to me and my whole view on astrology changed. Whether you're a skeptic or a believer, give me a few minutes because I think your ideas are about to change too. Listen to Skyline Drive on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeart Radio. Hey and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark and there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant and Jerry's out there lurking like an internet weirdo and this is Stuff You Should Know.

Yeah. I got a question for you. Okay. You ever been to a Michelin starred restaurant? Yes. I don't know if I have or not. Surely you have. I don't know. I mean, I've never sought one out. Sure. But I may have accidentally done it. Yeah, it's possible. There's a decent, there's enough one-star restaurants out there that it's entirely possible you've been to one. One star. Actually, I've been to a three-starred restaurant once. Yes. Well, it was for a very special occasion. Yumi's in my engagement. I contacted our friend Hodgman who was kind enough to contact his friend Adam Sacks who's a restaurant critic who pulled some strings to get me reservations at Danielle in New York City. And it was a three-star restaurant. It was amazing. It was

just totally amazing. Yeah. I think, I mean, I went to Atlanta is not on and you'll, you know, we'll go over all this in this episode, but Atlanta is not covered under the Michelin guide. Right. Which explains why Bacchanalia doesn't have a star. Yeah. Bacchanalia or Staple House, I could see having a star. I haven't been there. Staple House is the best meal I've ever had in my life. What kind of food? It's a tasting menu. You like wings mostly. Wings, ribs, other things you can taste. It sounds pretty good. It's very renowned in Atlanta and around the world like people fly to Atlanta to go to Staple House. Huh. It's that good. And it's really something else. It's the best meal I've ever had. And from the food to the service and the ambiance, it was just,

it's a five-star night regardless of what Michelin says. That's what my Yelp review is. But doesn't that say everything about Michelin that the highest honor you can get is three stars? It's like everybody else is going with four, five. Michelin's like three tops, you know? Yeah. But as you'll see, this was, their star rating came out long before the internet existed. Exactly. And so you might be like Michelin. I've never heard of that guide, but there's a tire company called Michelin out there. And we are here to tell you that they are one and the same company, that the tire manufacturer is also the publisher of the world's most renowned restaurant guide of all time. Yeah. And once we explain it, it's like, it's one of those things that at the

same time you say, oh, well, now I guess it makes sense, but also still very weird. It is. But it does have a very... Like literally, the Michelin man is part of this guide, the tire, cartoon tire man. If you're like, oh, you know, this is pretty haughty stuff. No, one of their symbols is the Michelin man licking his lips and making the okay symbol. So let's all maintain a little bit of perspective here, okay? Yeah, absolutely. So with the connection to the tire company, I think it's a pretty satisfying explanation. But all the way back in, what was it? The 19th century for sure, I believe, 1889, Andre and Edward Michelin started making tires. And this was, you know, they were making bicycle tires, I believe at first, but they ended up making tires

for just about everything, including trains. I did not know that there were rubber tires for trains, but rubber tires for trains. Just had no idea that that ever existed. Maybe it was one of those things where they tried it and it failed spectacularly, but it's still worth remarking. I don't know if they're still around or not. But these guys started making tires at a really good time because around that time, in addition to bikes, you also started to need tires for your car. And the Michelin brothers were there for it. Apparently, France was like one of the early hot spots of the auto manufacturing world around the turn of the last century. Yeah, they built more cars than anyone else between 1890 and sort of the mid to late 1940s.

And they sold a ton of tires. And the Michelin man himself debuted in 1898, which is pretty remarkable. And there was, I think, I think it was Dave Ruse, right? Yeah, I believe so. Yeah, Dave can point you in, if you're in a place where you can look this up on the internet, just type in Bobindum, B-I-B-E-N-D-U-M, which was the original name of the Michelin man, which comes from a Latin toast attributed to Horace, Nuns est Bobindum, now is the time to drink. And just look up the poster, type in Bobindum poster, 1898, and you'll see what is exactly a very creepy poster of an early Michelin tire man. It is very creepy and sort of nightmares.

It is. It's like, what is wrong with all the people at the table? There's something terribly wrong with everybody. But apparently Bobindum is still his name in Europe, or bib, affectionately. So the Bobindum debuted a little actually before the time of the guide. The guide first made its appearance in 1900. And the reason why the guide ever existed, as far as the Michelin company's concerned, is because the Michelin brothers were looking for a way to sell more tires by getting people to drive more. And they figured, well, if we make a guide book saying, hey, you got to check out this place in Lyon, or Burgundy, or Champagne, or sparkling wine, like all these different places in France, then they'll actually go out and take

road trips to these places. And that was the origin of the Michelin guide, was to tell people about all these different spots and to make, you know, to let you know about them. And maybe you should go check this out. Yeah. So it was first given away for free when it debuted. They, like he said, were just sort of listing restaurants where you could go. But eventually in 1926, they started recommending restaurants. And in 1931 is where the Star System was finally debuted, which is one star, a very good restaurant in its category, two stars, excellent cooking, worth a detour, or three stars, exceptional cuisine, worth a special journey. And I really think they missed a big opportunity by not rating these one to four tires. Instead, they did one to

three stars. But as day points out, if you'll notice, what they're saying is, hey, this restaurant, you should really drive to Michelin tires a lot, right? Yeah. Maybe lay some rubber and do some donuts on the way. Totally. So that language is still in use today. Like those are the current explanation for stars as well, even though the point isn't to get you to use up your tires. Probably. But they do still signify the same thing where like a three star restaurant to the Michelin, the editors of the Michelin Guide, is it's worth a trip in and of itself. Like it's worth getting in a plane and flying to a different country to eat this meal at this restaurant and then getting on a plane and flying back. That's basically what a three star

Michelin rating means. That's right. The first one outside of France was in Belgium in 1904. Then it kind of spread through Europe with other guides, North Africa. They did publish an English language version in 1909, but it was just for France still. America didn't get its first guide, and this is very surprising to me, until 2005 when they started their guide to New York City, because they were like the only good food in America is in New York. Yeah. And not only that, only good French restaurants are in what is in New York and in America. They took a lot of flak for that first one. In its defense, they hadn't put together a team of American inspectors. They had used some of their existing European inspectors to go over,

and they have no idea what they're doing aside from French cuisine, apparently. So, they did just basically put an American guidebook out to the best French restaurants in New York. That was the first American guide, but they have since, as we'll see, really kind of kept pace a lot more since then. Yeah. They've tried to. The modern guide has more than 40,000 restaurants in 34 countries. Here in the States, you have New York. They cover the state of California, and then the cities of Chicago and Washington, DC, and that's all as far as the US goes so far. And they sell these things now. They've sold 30 million of them over the last 100 years. And then next year, they are going to hit Moscow. They have them for Tokyo,

Hong Kong, sort of other places all over the world now, like you said, because they're trying to, I think, shed, and we'll talk more about this, but shed a little bit more of that stodgy, snooty, only French kind of thing. Right. Which is why they're releasing a guidebook on Topeka next year as well. Oh, great. So, if you open up one of these Michelin guides, or go online, that's all online as well, too, when you hear about three stars, like there must be a tremendous amount of detail explaining why and all that, that is not how Michelin guides work. There is a tremendous amount of work and effort and thought that's put into the kind of rating or symbol that a restaurant gets in the Michelin guide. But the guide itself is basically like,

just trust us, here's one star or two stars or three stars or no stars. Here's a little write up about the restaurant, what you can expect, the chef and what the chef's known for. And in a couple of paragraphs, they make or break a restaurant around the world. Yeah. And they have, it's very, I mean, if you don't know anything about it and you just pop it open, like you said, you could get confused by all the weird symbols that it uses to convey their qualities. We'll get into some of those in a minute, but the star is, you know, obviously the highest honor you can get. The criteria, there are five criteria to judge these restaurants for stars. It's not, it's only about the food. It's not the decor. It's not the service or the ambiance or where it is.

It's literally just the food on the plate. And these five criteria, which are quality of the ingredients, mastery of flavor and the cooking techniques, personality of the chef, the harmony of flavors, and then the consistency between the visits. I also saw value for money. Is that not one? I didn't see that anywhere except in this thing that we were given. Did you see that elsewhere? I saw that that would make much more sense for the Bib Gourmand, which we'll talk about. Yeah. I mean, this was taken, I got mine from an interview with an actual inspector. The New Yorker one. Okay. Yeah, I missed that part. So when you put all those criteria together, and again, like you said, it's just, they're just talking about the food, but they're talking about

the food to the point where a three star rating means that that restaurant puts out consistently over time, technically, scientifically perfect food. No matter what you order, and no matter what time of day, no matter what day of the year, no matter who you are, you're going to go in and get a perfect meal every time. That's what a three star rating is. And there's a lot of criticism of those criteria as we'll see, but it really is a remarkable thing that they're basically saying, like, this is a perfect meal no matter what you order. That's kind of hard to find in other industries. You're not just like, this is a perfect shoe that I'm wearing. It fits this weird, you know, five boxes of criteria that are being checked off. No matter what shoe,

what model shoe, this shoe is going to be perfect no matter what. You don't find that everywhere else, you know? No, I really love that symbol or that analogy. Thank you. So there are only 128 three stars worldwide. There are 459 two stars and 2,486 one-star restaurants. A man, very famous man, chef named Alain Ducasse. How do you pronounce that? I think it's Alan Ducasse. There's so much French in here that I'm going to murder, but he has 36 restaurants and between them 20 Michelin stars, including three three-star restaurants, which is quite an accomplishment. And I think we should take a break maybe and then we'll talk about some of those more weird symbols in the guide. Does that sound good?

Hey, I'm Lance Bass host of the new iHeart podcast frosted tips with Lance Bass. The hardest thing could be knowing who to turn to when questions arise or times get tough or you're at the end of the road. Okay, I see what you're doing. Do you ever think to yourself, what advice would Lance Bass and my favorite boy bands give me in this situation? If you do, you've come to the right place because I'm here to help this. I promise you. Oh, God, seriously, I swear. And you won't have to send an SOS because I'll be there for you. Oh, man. And so my husband Michael. Um, hey, that's me. Yeah, we know that Michael and a different hot sexy teen crush boy band are each week to guide you through life step by step. Oh, not another one. Kids relationships life in general

can get messy. You may be thinking this is the story of my life. Just stop now. If so, tell everybody you everybody about my new podcast and make sure to listen. So we'll never ever have to say bye, bye, bye. Listen to frosted tips with Lance Bass on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to podcasts. I'm Mangesh Atikala. And to be honest, I don't believe in astrology. But from the moment I was born, it's been a part of my life in India. It's like smoking. You might not smoke, but you're going to get second hand astrology. And lately, I've been wondering if the universe has been trying to tell me to stop running and pay attention. Because maybe there is magic in the stars, if you're willing to look for it. So I rounded up some friends and we dove

in and let me tell you, it got weird fast. Tantric curses, major league baseball teams, canceled marriages, K-pop. But just when I thought I had to handle on this sweet and curious show about astrology, my whole world can crash down. Situation doesn't look good. There is risk to father. And my whole view on astrology, it changed. Whether you're a skeptic or a believer, I think your ideas are going to change too. Listen to Skyline Drive and the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcast, wherever you get your podcasts. So the Michelin Guide is most well known for the stars that it gives, right? And we should say even being mentioned in the Michelin Guide, it's not like a comprehensive listing of restaurants in New York. It's like these are

the most noteworthy restaurants in New York. And then the starred ones are the best of the most noteworthy. So just being in there is an honor. But I guess it's kind of like recognition that there are some restaurants out there that are still really good and that you should still go check out. They just don't necessarily check the boxes of the five criteria. They perfect meal every single time, but it's still definitely worth checking out. They came up with other criteria and they found the first one, I believe, which it came out in 1955, was the Bib Gourmand that we mentioned a minute ago. And Bib being again Bibendum or the Michelin man. This is like his faves. Totally. It's evidenced by him licking his lips. Give me the okay symbol.

Yeah. So you're right. It started in the 50s. The original symbol is a little red R, which stood for R-E-P-A-S French for meal. I'm not going to pronounce it. But it's basically Bib Gourmand means good little restaurant. And it actually comes out. It's in, it's the regular guide, but it also comes out as its own separate guide. The Bib Gourmand guide after the Michelin guide is published. And these are good quality, good value cooking. And the idea is that you can go to a Bib Gourmand restaurant and you can get what they say is a three course meal. I also saw one of the inspectors say like a main course, a dessert and a glass of wine, but like kind of like three things for about $40 per person, which they consider a good value.

And that is if you're talking like really, really good stuff. And 3,365 restaurants right now are listed as Bib Gourmands. Yeah. So it's kind of like anybody can pick that up and be like, let's see where we're going to go to dinner tonight, basically, you know, $40. You could, you can drop $40 a person at like outback pretty easily. So that is pretty, that is pretty remarkable that they include this. What's a blooming onion go for these days? I guarantee it's 11 or 12 bucks. How you think? Sure. Let's look right now. You talk, I'm going to look up how much a blooming onion is. I got to say, I haven't been to an outback steakhouse since, I don't know, probably two decades, but that blooming onion is blooming delicious. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Blooming delicious.

You made a joke while we were on the road the other day about how we should go to outback. And I was like, yeah, a blooming onion would be pretty good, but it turns out it was just a joke and we didn't end up there. How's that for an anecdote? Okay. It's good until the part where you didn't go and get one of those blooming onions on your road trip. Right. So you can get yourself a blooming onion for $8.99. I stand corrected. All right. That sounds about right. With tax though, you're approaching 10. Yeah. And if you want a regular size cheese fries, it's 11 bucks. So But you got to get some extra sauce with that blooming onion. So that probably pushes it over 10. Yeah. Unless that's a freebie. I don't know how they work. Gallon, gallon size.

Were you thinking the blooming onion was going to make an appearance in this episode on Michelin Stars? I did not. I didn't either. I give that four tires though. All right. So another symbol they have is the plate to Michelin. How are you going to pronounce that in French? La Siette. Yeah. La Siette. That sounds about right. Okay. This is a symbol of a dinner plate flanked by knife and a fork. This debuted in 2016. And this is just good cooking. It is not, it means it doesn't have a star. It's not a Bib Gourmand, but they call it quote simply good food. I'm not entirely sure what the distinction is between the plate and the Bib Gourmand rating it. I think it's money. Okay. So this could still be expensive or is it cheaper than the Bib Gourmand?

No, no, no. I think the Bib Gourmand is specifically cheap and the plate to Michelin can be pricey. But just not good enough for a star. Just not good enough for a star. So it's like a sub-star rating I guess. Sub-star but more expensive than 40 bucks a person. Okay. Otherwise it would be a Bib Gourmand. They also, one other way to kind of understand the Bib Gourmand is we'll talk about the inspectors a little bit in a minute, but apparently the ratings are, they use a hive mine kind of thing where they'll have different inspectors go to see what they think about an inspector's rating of a restaurant and then they kind of pull them all together and the average is what the restaurant gets. That was one explanation I saw and by proxy the Bib Gourmand is say like

one inspectors like if you happen to be talking to a Michelin inspector and said what's your real favorite restaurant in this town? They'd probably give you a Bib Gourmand recommendation. Not necessarily everyone in the Michelin organization would agree that it deserves a star or three stars, but this one inspectors like this is really honestly the best restaurant in town. Right. And then they would take you into an alley and strangle you to death because you're not supposed to know who I am. Right. Exactly. I'm so sorry, but you know too much. They're like the talented Mr. Ripley at the end. Oh, spoiler. Was it? No, it doesn't matter. Okay. You have the Green Star which debuted just last year in 2020.

That is restaurants and chefs who are practicing sustainable gastronomy, sourcing locally, reducing waste, renewable energy in their restaurants. Then you have the Covert or Covers and that is based I think, I mean the food's got to be good too, but it really has to do with ambiance. You can get one to five covers, which means like if you really want to go to a special like romantic dinner or something, you might want to look under the covers section. Yeah. And to make it even more arcane and obscure, you can have five covers, but if it's in black ink, it's not as good as a few covers in red ink. Yeah, a little confusing. So if you have, if there's a place that has five covers in red ink, it's their most charming, splendid atmosphere of any restaurant they've

ever encountered. But yeah, it does, surely it has to do, it takes the food into account too. They're not going to send you like a slot bucket that's really charming, but they, the, whereas the stars are just the food, this kind of takes into account the ambiance more. Yeah. And then they started, you can see symbols for different specialties in different regions, like in Spain, they'll have a little toothpick and wine symbol for tapas, like the best tapas places in the UK and Ireland, they'll have beer mugs for the best pubs. If you see little grape symbols, that means someone might have a really good wine list or a cocktail glass, obviously for good cocktails or a sake bottle, stuff like that. So if you see all these little symbols, obviously,

I'm sure there's a, what do you call it? A legend? Yeah, legend. It explains all this stuff, but we're here to do that for you. Yeah. From what I can tell, you have to be basically a trained Michelin inspector to decipher some of this stuff once it gets real deep, you know? Well, we've been saying this word inspector without explaining that, and people are probably going, why do they keep talking about detectives? Right. But we're not talking about detectives, we're talking about inspectors, which is their word for reviewers. Yeah, actually, I don't even think they call them. They call them anonymous restaurant. Oh, no, they do call them inspectors. I'm sorry, I miss read. So, and that makes a lot of sense too, because there is this

definite haughtiness to this whole thing. But at the same time, from what Michelin has finally started to choose to reveal about its inspectors, they do seem to actually be worthy of such a kind of haughty title. They are typically trained in and have like real life experience in the hospitality industry, the restaurant industry, hotel industry, and they will train and actually go through this kind of vetting process for about a year, basically, that also includes an apprenticeship, because this is not the kind of thing where you can be like, oh, these are the five criteria. I totally understand this. It's a lot more nerve wracking than that. And also, if you ask me, the best way to lose love of food would be to become a Michelin restaurant inspector,

because it sounds like a lot of not fun work. Yes, I would much rather just go enjoy a meal at a restaurant than have to review it any day of the week. Yeah, there's a cool article I read from Forbes from 2019 by Carla Allendeo called The Secret Life of an Anonymous Michelin Restaurant Inspector, where they talk to this woman who is an inspector and they remain anonymous, even when they're interviewed, which as we'll talk about in a bit, is happening a little bit more over the past like 10 to 20 years. But she talks about the rigors of the process and some of them are trained sommelier, some of them are chefs, but they're all in the restaurant industry at some point. And they get there, obviously, their travel and hotel and their food

all covered. I was trying to find the pay. I saw some guesses that it was maybe close to $100,000 a year to eat about 300 meals a year in these restaurants to not be allowed to eat with your, at least if you're reviewing the restaurant, with a spouse or any other friend like you're supposed to be in there alone. You got to take these pictures, which people do that a lot now any day, so that's not going to make you stand out. But the thing that I saw was that the hardest part, at least from the point of view of this one inspector, was maintaining your anonymity, because I think they said you're allowed to tell your closest family members, but really no one else. And in this day of social media, I don't know how much of a social media

presence you can even have. It'd be a giveaway if you were like, you know, in New York again, ate these 10 meals out this week. You know, I'm in Paris, now I'm in Los Angeles, now I'm in Chicago, now I'm in Tokyo, like people would kind of catch on, I think. Yeah, I think you're supposed to just be a lot more kind of plain Jane or plain James, I guess. Never heard of put that way, but I think I just came upon something to where you're just kind of unremarkable and not really noticeable, but at the same time, you're not sticking out because you're so unnoticeable, and you just kind of have to live a life of anonymity, not just at work, but in general, like you're saying. It's a big grind. It sounds like a big grind, like 10 meals a day or 10 meals

a week, very frequently, you know, lunch and dinner. And we're talking like, like you said, tasting menus or, you know, prefix menus, where they're eating like multiple course meals. I saw that New Yorker interview with Maxime or M is what they nicknamed her, the Michelin inspector, and I guess they order as many courses as the restaurant offers. So if they have, you know, soup, salad, appetizer, main, pasta, dessert, like you would be expected to order a dish off of each of those courses for lunch, and then go do the same thing for dinner, five days a week, five days a week, three weeks out of the month all year long. It does sound like a grind for sure. Yeah, by yourself. Eating by yourself, it can be kind of liberating and fun, but after a while,

not that much. That is one of the loneliest things you can possibly do. And the other thing, too, is if it's frowned upon for you to bring a friend or a family member, I guarantee it's frowned upon for you to just be sitting at your phone. So you're just sitting there like a total weirdo by yourself at dinner, paying attention to the salt shaker, basically, is what you're doing. Yeah, enjoying your world-class meal. It does not sound fun to me at all. I just rather, it's just one of those things, I just rather be an everyday person and just enjoy it on that level. Like I feel bad for people who are so into making movies that they can't enjoy a movie anymore. It's the same exact thing. You're like, I just want to be a regular guy at a three-star restaurant

sitting there looking at my phone. Right. I want to be able to be on Twitter the whole time. All right, I think we should take another break and then we'll talk about, this all sounds rosy, but we'll talk about some of the criticisms right after this. Hey, I'm Lance Bass, host of the new iHeart podcast, Frosted Tips with Lance Bass. The hardest thing can be knowing who to turn to when questions arise or times get tough, or you're at the end of the road. Okay, I see what you're doing. Do you ever think to yourself, what advice would Lance Bass and my favorite boy bands give me in this situation? If you do, you've come to the right place because I'm here to help. This, I promise you. Oh God.

Seriously, I swear. And you won't have to send an SOS because I'll be there for you. Oh man. And so my husband, Michael. Um, hey, that's me. Yep. We know that Michael and a different hot, sexy teen crush boy band are each week to guide you through life step by step. Not another one. Kids, relationships, life in general can get messy. You may be thinking, this is the story of my life. Just stop now. If so, tell everybody, everybody about my new podcast and make sure to listen. So we'll never ever have to say bye, bye, bye. Listen to Frosted Tips with Lance Bass on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to podcasts. I'm Mangesh Atikular. And to be honest, I don't believe in astrology. But from the moment I was

born, it's been a part of my life. In India, it's like smoking. You might not smoke, but you're going to get secondhand astrology. And lately, I've been wondering if the universe has been trying to tell me to stop running and pay attention. Because maybe there is magic in the stars, if you're willing to look for it. So I rounded up some friends and we dove in and let me tell you, it got weird fast. Tantric curses, major league baseball teams, canceled marriages, K-pop. But just when I thought I had to handle on this sweet and curious show about astrology, my whole world came crashing down. Situation doesn't look good. There is risk to father. And my whole view on astrology, it changed. Whether you're a skeptic or a believer,

I think your ideas are going to change too. Listen to Skyline Drive and the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right. So we've talked about the, kind of sung the praises. Well, did we sing praises? Well, no, they are definitely well trained and all that. But the thing is, with their inspectors, Michelin has always been, the term is, they're famously anonymous. Like they really, like you were saying, go to great links to hide their people and their identities. And a lot of people are like, well, who are these people? Are they actually qualified? And that's kind of caused a lot of controversy in itself. Yeah. And I kind of mourn that singing the praises of the guide itself. But it's all

become sort of controversial over the years. And there's been a lot of criticism levied. Like you mentioned, first of all, the inspectors, there have been some things that have come out over the years. There was a book written by an inspector after they left the job called the inspector sits down at the table by Pascal Remy, where Pascal said, they're not nearly enough of us. They're way fewer. We're not going to these restaurants as much as we should. There have been restaurants that said, Hey, I was knocked down a star. And I know for a fact that no one even came into the restaurant this past year. No inspector came into our restaurant. So how do we get not back a star? Right. And there's kind of a general, I think within the industry, there's a general

feeling of this thing has too much importance over and too much hold over us as chefs and as restaurateurs. And we're kind of beholden to this book. Oh, yeah. To the point where people, I mean, there was there was one chef who took his own life, Bernard French chef, Bernard Lusot, who lost a star. He had famously said, If I ever lose my stars, I will kill myself. And in 2003, that happened. And he he shot himself in the head with a shotgun. He very much was suffering from depression. So we're not saying, you know, this is all at the hands of the Michelin guide. But it just sort of hammers home the stress of trying to achieve and then maintain these stars. Yeah, it goes both ways, right? Like, if you don't have the stars yet, and you're just starting out,

you want to get them or else people are going to be like, Well, I thought you were like an up and coming superstar where your Michelin stars. Yeah. But then once you get them, it's like, it's just this albatross around your neck trying to keep them. And the guy who's restaurant, you me and I went to for engagement, Danielle Boulard, I believe, he actually took or sorry, balloon. He took a kind of a cool attitude to the whole thing. He had three stars and he got knocked down to two after I had been there. But he was basically like, look, you know, I mean, we make a lot of changes to our menu. And sometimes it's stuff that we want to lock in and put on the menu. Other times it's us just messing around. But our customers seem to really

like it. And so if that means that we're not putting out perfect food every single time, but we're being more creative and spontaneous, I'm okay with that. Taking chances. That was a very, very rare attitude from what I saw. More likely if you lose a star, you openly weep like Gordon Ramsay did when one of his restaurants, the London in New York City, lost two stars. It had two stars and it lost them both from one guy to the next. And he wept. Apparently he won't talk about it if you ask him about it. That is much more the reaction to Michelin stars than Danielle's response, which is kind of like, eh, you know, I'll take it or leave it. It just kind of ruined your life one way or the other. And I think a lot of people

in the restaurant industry really resent that this anonymous group of people whose qualifications they're not even sure of hold that kind of sway over their lives, over their entire careers, you know. Yeah, actually, now that I think of it, Emily and I stayed at the London one time. And I think we ate breakfast there. There you go. Two stars. Yeah, I'm not sure when it was, as far as his stars coming and going, but yeah. So we ate there. Another sort of rarity was in 2017 when French chef, Sebastian Bra, said, hey, Michelin guide, can you remove my stars and take them out of there? And there's a couple of interesting quotes. He said, after 20 years under the banner of three stars, I wanted to find serenity, freedom and independence, but

three stars represented a form of permanent and growing tension for me. And today I only want to be accountable to my customers. So too much stress. And he was like, I want to, I want to experiment and I want to try different things. And I don't want to necessarily live my or spend the rest of my career just trying to maintain these stars. And by all accounts, it was a pretty liberating experience for him. Yeah. Yeah. So that again, that also is very rare. For the most part, it's like your career is about trying to get and then trying to keep those stars. And just the kind of the frustration that goes along with it has made a lot of people level accusations toward the Michelin guide, including that, you know, they hand out like that one guy's

expose, they said that they hand out stars or maintain stars among some of their friends, like very friends, French chefs. That is absolutely not fair. But, and there are definitely plenty of people out there who just go to these restaurants so that they can brag about having gone to this restaurant. And that probably makes up a substantial part of the chef's clientele or the restaurant's clientele. And I would guess if you're a chef in this area, you probably hate people like that, even though, you know, they're coming to your restaurant, they're just being D bags. That's why they're there is to just show off what a D bag they are. Can we say that? Yeah. And I bet you half of those people say like, Oh my God, what one of the best meals in half of

them say, I don't know why this thing is three stars. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. So there is that to it where people are like, there's too much sway or these people even like being fair about this. And then the star system attracts people who are just there to say that they ate at a restaurant and aren't actually enjoying the food. All that exists. But it really seems over the last century that the Michelin guide has, like it is legit. Like if you go to a three-star restaurant, you are probably going to have the best meal that you've ever had in your entire life. Like that's probably true. And that in and of itself legitimizes it, or at least, you know, lends credence to the idea that generally it's a legitimate, if not crushing rating system. Yeah. There's been some other

controversies over the years in 2019. There was a lawsuit filed by French chef, Marc Verrat, who said my restaurant in Maison de, how do you pronounce that last part? Not Boise, Idaho, but I think Boise. Boise. Maison de Boise. Yes. All right. Let's go with that. He was downgraded from three to two stars. He said, quote, it's worse than the loss of my parents, which I'm sure his parents were like, Merci for that. All right. And apparently the word on the street was the inspector accused the kitchen of using just a very common English cheddar cheese and a souffle dish that he serves. He was, I know, sacre bleu. He was really mad. He said, I demand to see that report. Michelin says, I don't know who you think you are, but you better watch it. You're going

to lose all your stars, buddy. But you can't see our reports. He filed a lawsuit. It became known as Cheddar Gate. And then the case was thrown out when they couldn't produce evidence that it actually hurt his business. It actually helped his business because all of the publicity. All right. So that report thing actually struck me as surprising. I saw that they will share their reports. I mean, you know, really? Yeah. They won't, they, obviously it won't say what inspector came from or anything like that, but they, that restaurants who want to improve or get a star back or whatever and want to know what happened, they, they will share their reports. So I didn't understand that. Maybe what I read was, was wrong, but the, the Michelin guide has responded to this

kind of like criticism and bad publicity. You know, the suicide of, what was his last name? Lusso. Yeah. In 2003 was really a dark cloud that hung over the Michelin guide. You know, the criticism for basically rating the best French restaurants in New York and their first American guide, all this stuff really amounted to some bad press for the Michelin guide. And it kind of evolved in the 21st century to become a lot more worldly, a lot less French, Franco-centric, a lot less stuffy and to expand. And today actually the country or the city with the, the largest number of stars among its restaurants isn't Paris, it's Tokyo. Yeah. How about that? Or I should say Tokyo. I've been saying it wrong, Yumi says. Oh, Tokyo. It's Tokyo. Yeah.

I've been saying it wrong for 49, almost 50 years. Yeah. I'm catching up to you, 44 for me. Because that was my first word actually. Yeah. I've been saying Tokyo since I was in the womb. So yeah, it's, it's opened up to Asia. It's expanded in the US market, like we mentioned before they, in 2016 they awarded their first ever star to a hawker stall, which is Singapore Street Food, which is really cool. It was Hong Kong, soy sauce, chicken rice and noodle, which man, that thing got a star. And I just want to go there right now and eat it. Me too. The other thing I want to eat is in the 2020 edition to Taipei, they had a takeout only street stall that has one thing on the menu, which is a steamed pork bun with ground peanuts and cilantro.

They've been serving this for 60 years and they gave that a bib gourmand, whatever, metal or... The licking lips and okay. The licking lips guy. Yeah. I want to eat that pork bun more than anything I can think of. The thing is, Chuck, is the thing that I hate almost as much as waiting at a red light when there's no cars coming from the other direction is standing in line for food. I hate that. I feel like such a chump, such a sucker. And after X number of minutes, it is not worth it. It doesn't matter how good the food is, it's not worth it. Because I also usually don't like the people I'm standing in line with, you know, like a certain kind of like food fan or the kinds that'll stand in line for an hour and a half. They're also probably the ones that

brag about the number of stars or whatever. So there's a lot I don't like about that. And it turns out Michelin has heard my concerns and Jiro Sushi, the sushi place that they did the documentary about. After that documentary, you could not, still to this day, I think that documentary is from like 2009 or 10. To this day, you cannot get in to Jiro's. It's a 10 seat sushi bar that's probably the best sushi in the world. And you just can't get in. It's sorry, TES. You have to basically be a head of state or a celebrity these days. And it was a 10 seat, three starred, three Michelin starred sushi restaurant in a train station in Tokyo. And Michelin took its stars back because they say the guide is meant for, you know, any person to

be able to go to these restaurants, the restaurants they recommend, anybody should be able to get into it. Like, yes, some people are going to spend a much more substantial portion of their annual salary than other people, but you should be able to get into this place one way or another. And with Jiro's, you just can't do that anymore. So they actually took their stars back. They said, Jiro, we wish you the best of luck. Not that you need it, but you don't need these stars and you can't really have them because you can't, the average person can't get a seat in your place anymore. Yeah. You know what this episode has really made me want to do? Eat. Eat in a restaurant. Yes, dude. Yes. This is very cruel to put this one out right now in retrospect,

because all I want to do is eat in a restaurant. Man, so bad. Just a good multi-course meal starting out with like an amazing martini or drink. Yes, a blooming onion in there somewhere. Maybe a side of ranch. I mean, like, yes, I cannot wait. It will happen again one day, man. I know for sure. Okay. Okay. Well, since Chuck said for sure, that means, of course, everybody, it's time for Listener Mail. I'm going to call this, and we've gotten a few of these lately, but this one I tagged about a month ago. From people who have finished their stuff, you should know Journey. Nice. And listened to all the episodes. Hey, everybody, I've done it. It took me two years of listening any time I was driving, and I have to drive a lot for work,

but I've finally gotten through the entire back catalog going all the way back to how grassaline works. Wow. Those first episodes were so not very good. Yeah. I don't know what I'll do in between new episodes now, but I wanted to say thanks for the many, many hours of learning and laughing, and what has to be hundreds of Simpsons references. At least. My favorite episode was either Nuclear Semiotics or the Dyatlov Pass Mystery, but I need to thank Josh for introducing me to Teddy the Beaver. Oh, yeah, Teddy the Baby Beaver. Or no, he's the one that built like the dam in the doorway of the bedroom, right? Oh, what's that? I think so. He was so cute. So cute. The greatest moment in the show, however, was during what I recall to be the Beagle Brigade episode when Josh

predicted COVID-19 by talking about someone's getting a disease by eating a bat. Yeah. A lot of people say I predicted that. I called out a magazine article that I read that predicted it. I don't know if I particularly predicted it, but thank you for that. And I don't even know if that's the origin of COVID now. Isn't that sort of in dispute? I don't know. The last thing I heard was that it was either a pangolin or a bat. I've heard bat more than anything, you know what I'm saying? Well, you're going to the wrong websites, buddy. I guess so. You need to find the truth. That's right. Oh, God. Cartoon sweat. He says, also sorry, Chuck, but Sharknado can suck it. I wish you know for sure, but my mind was blown away when Josh said it. Thanks again for all

the hard work, and I look forward to 12 more years worth of episodes. And that is from Kyle in Phoenix, Arizona, who I guess went to our live show there. He's a great live show on Kellogg, by the way. I remember that Phoenix show. That was a good one. That was a good show. I think that's the one where we got lassos. Oh, it absolutely was. I still got that thing. Kathy with a K. That's right. I love that lasso. Well, if you want to get in touch with us, you can send us an email to stuffpodcast.ihartradio.com. Stuff you should know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app. Apple podcasts are wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Hey, I'm Lance Bass, host of the new iHeart podcast

Frosted Tips with Lance Bass. Do you ever think to yourself, what advice would Lance Bass and my favorite boy bands give me in this situation? If you do, you've come to the right place because I'm here to help and a different hot sexy teen crush boy band or each week to guide you through life. Tell everybody, everybody about my new podcast and make sure to listen so we'll never, ever have to say bye bye bye. Listen to Frosted Tips with Lance Bass on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts. I'm Munga Chauticular and it turns out astrology is way more widespread than any of us want to believe. You can find in major league baseball, international banks, K-pop groups, even the White House. But just when I thought I had a

handle on this subject, something completely unbelievable happened to me and my whole view on astrology changed. Whether you're a skeptic or a believer, give me a few minutes because I think your ideas are about to change too. Listen to Skyline Drive on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.