Stuff You Should Know - What is terror management theory?

Episode Date: May 24, 2011

Terror management theory isn't about mid-level bureaucrats in Al-Qaeda -- so what exactly is it, and what does it say about human culture and our perception of mortality? Join Chuck and Josh as they explore the implications of terror management theory. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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They just have way better names for what they call, like what we would call a jackmove or being robbed. They call civil acid. Be sure to listen to the war on drugs on the iHeart Radio App, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Brought to you by the reinvented 2012 Camry. It's ready, are you? Welcome to Stuff You Should Know from HowStuffWorks.com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. Hi, I'm Josh Clark. That was Chuck Bryan who just said hi. Good times.

Then when you put the two of us together, you're going to get something called Stuff You Should Know. It's like mixing baking soda and vinegar and chest hair. Oh, God. That's Stuff You Should Know. It's explosive, right? It is. Chuck, yes. Hi, are you okay? Yeah, great. Okay. Does that not sound convincing? No, and I know that you won't be okay by the time we finish this one. I thought this is very interesting and well written. Thank you very much. I would agree with very interesting. No, of course, well written. Had your fingers doing the typing. Thank you, Chuck. I appreciate that. You want to do this one? Yes. Okay. So, Chuck, there was a study

released in a little-known journal called Conservation Letters. You may have heard of it. Okay. Have you? I hadn't until I read this. I hadn't either until I found it. But it was by Conservation Internationals Will Turner and a couple other people from that group. And the point of this paper was to point out that even though we may try to mitigate climate change, we're still screwing things up by trying to mitigate it. And by not preparing for the worst, e.g. climate change, we're ultimately going to screw things up after the earth is already screwed up. Okay. Let me give you a couple of examples. All right. First is one-fifth of all the world's tropical forests lie within a few kilometers of areas that would be totally underwater

if sea levels rose by just one meter, right? Yes. 31 miles of heavy human population would be underwater. 31 miles? The forests are within 31 miles of heavy human populations. Right. And so these human populations aren't just going to sit there and drown and take one for the earth. No. They're going to move upward. That's right. And as they move upward, they're going to encounter these forests and they're going to say, hey, that bird looks delicious. Hey, I can burn this tree and cook this bird. Yeah. Hey, mama, let's get it on. There's going to be all sorts of weird things said in these forests after climate change takes place, right? Yeah. These untouched forests will now be touched and plundered. Right. And by the way, this same

one-fifth of the forests are home to exactly half of all of the Alliance for Zero Extinction sites, which means that these are sites where animals that are filled with animals that are on the verge of extinction, humans show up, it's over. Okay. Right. So that's if climate change happens, and we don't figure out what we're going to do for shelter and fuel and food ahead of time. Right. That's just natural. The other scenario is, okay, we're trying to mitigate climate change now before some sort of disaster happens in the future, right? Yeah. So say hydroelectric power. Yeah. Let's build a dam. Let's. And why not? Yeah. Because that's a cleaning green. Yeah. When you release water, it makes turbines move, which generates electricity completely cleanly, right?

Yeah. So how can you go wrong, Chuck? Well, it didn't say so in this particular paper, but I remember a little podcast we did about reservoir-induced seismicity and a science channel short film we did on that. Yes. Where building dams can potentially cause instability in tectonic plates from the heavy water and then no water. Yeah. And if you build one too close to a dam, it could cause an earthquake. Cause an earthquake? So that's one way. That's one way. Another way is that when you build a dam, that river backs up and creates a lake in an area that wasn't ever really supposed to be a lake and all of the deer and the squirrels and the koala bears and the plants are in big trouble, right? What's more, you also affect the fresh water

downstream of the dam. And basically you screw up the environment, right? This sounds like you're darned if you do, you're darned if you don't kind of thing. Right. So, Chuck, somebody reading a news report about this paper, right, could say, what's the point? Why do anything, right? Just let me eat my hungry man dinner and I don't care anymore. I don't care. Right. Like I can't do anything about it. Yeah. And this, that, that very understandable and reasonable reaction is kind of cause for concern among a lot of critics of the media because, well, let's talk about whether or not science believes that anthropogenic or manmade climate change is real. Josh National Academy of Sciences, who we actually know some people there. Very nice people. They did great work.

We do. Hey, Rick. Hey, Rick. Hey, Marty. 1,372 scientists were polled by the proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences and 97% agreed that anthropogenic climate change is a real thing. And they even went so far as to say, what's up with you? 3% like what do you think? And they kind of found out that they didn't have the expertise to really determine that. Right. They, they went back and shamed them. Yeah. Based on the, that 3% citation and publication rates, they said these, these people are basically stupid, which is why they don't believe in manmade climate change. Right. So this poll at least indicates that science says, yeah, manmade climate change is happening. It's a real thing. Okay. So you have science on the one hand

saying, yes, there's a problem people. And you have the, the public on the other hand saying, all right, um, I don't want to drown and I don't want to drive these species out of extinction. What can I do? What can I do, Mr. Scientist? And the group that serves to connect these two, the people who know there's a problem and maybe have answers and the people who can actually create change by carrying out these, these solutions is the media. And it's about here where that disconnect comes about, especially when there's doomsday scenarios. Yeah. Let me read you another stat, which feels a little awkward because you found the stat, a Gallup poll last year in 2010, 2010, the future, 48% of Americans said they believed that the seriousness of global

warming is a quote, generally exaggerated. And that was a 17% rise from 1997. Yeah. When we supposedly have a lot more information probably, yeah, over that time period. And you hit the nail on the head is because of something called alarmism. Thanks to something called the media. Right. And part of it, part of it is alarmism. Another part is that there's such a thing as professional climate skeptics, bloggers, reporters, media influencers who are like, no, no, it's not real and then take money from PR companies. Sure. But part of it is alarmism. There's, if you put enough problems onto a person, they're going to just throw up their hands and give up. Well, there's also a British study that you found that the Think Tank Institute

for Public Policy Research, they did a review of more than 600 news articles in the UK. This is just in the UK, right? Yeah. On climate change. Yeah. And they found, we should read some of these. This is the language, alarmist language being used by some of these 600 articles. Right. The climate of fear. Serious climate change is now inevitable. That was James Lovelock, the person who came up with the Gaia theory. He also said, same guy said, the earth has passed the point of no return. He also called for the temporary suspension of democracy until we can handle climate change. Really? Yeah. Another one said, we're headed for Dodo status. Words like point of no return,

civilizational collapse, global chaos. And Malcolm Gladwell's favorite. Tipping point. Yeah. Your favorite person. So that was the alarmist language, right? And it creates the sense of enormity, right? And that sense of enormity creates a reasonable distancing from the problem. Like, there's nothing I can do about this. There's nothing any of us can do about this. Yeah. Again, I fall into this trap too. To my hungry man dinner. I have to admit. Well, it's a pretty normal human thing to do. Well, basically, you're kind of being charged with like, save the planet now or humans will be extinct in the blink of an eye. Right. And who is not going to shrink from that a little bit and

say, where's my hungry man? Right. But they also found that there are two other large categories that the climate change reporting language can be put into. There's also non pragmatic optimism. Yeah. Which is basically like, it's not going to happen in our lifetime. Who cares? Right? Yeah. And then there's pragmatic optimism, which is like, you can change your light bulbs and make a difference. Like we can save ourselves, but we have to do something that's pragmatic optimism. What they found was far and away. The most common type was alarmism. Right. Yeah. Because it sells you know, headlines, it sells headlines, it sells headlines, sells papers. It does, but there really aren't papers anymore. So it sells clicks. Exactly.

The war on drugs impacts everyone, whether or not you take America's public enemy. Number one is drug abuse. This podcast is going to show you the truth behind the war on drugs. They told me that I would be charged for conspiracy to distribute 2,200 pounds of marijuana. Yeah. And they can do that without any drugs on the table. Without any drugs. Of course, yes, they can do that. And I'm the prime example of that. The war on drugs is the excuse our government uses to get away with absolutely insane stuff. Stuff that'll piss you off. The property is guilty. Exactly. And it starts as guilty. It starts as guilty. The cops. Are they just like looting? Are they just like pillaging? They just have way better names for what they

call like what we would call a jack move or being robbed. They call civil asset for it. Be sure to listen to the war on drugs on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. How's that New Year's resolution coming along? You know, the one you made about paying off your pesky credit card debt and finally starting to save for retirement. Well, you're not alone if you haven't made progress yet. Roughly four in five New Year's resolutions fail within the first month or two. But that doesn't have to be the case for you and your goals. Our podcast, How to Money Can Help. That's right. We're two best buds who've been at it for more

than five years now. And we want to see you achieve your money goals. And it's our goal to provide the information and encouragement you need to do it. We keep the show fresh by answering lists or questions, interviewing experts and focusing on the relevant financial news that you need to know about. Our show is chock full of the personal finance knowledge that you need with guidance three times a week. And we talk about debt payoff. If let's say you've had a particularly spend thrift holiday season, we also talk about building up your savings, intelligent investing and growing your income. No matter where you are on your financial journey, How to Money's got your back. Millions of listeners have trusted us to help them

achieve their financial goals. Ensure that your resolution turns into ongoing progress. Listen to How to Money on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So Chuck, Josh, the guys who from this British think tank, what was it? The Institute for Public Policy Research. They, they, I don't think they meant to, which is fine to say that they failed to show causation like you've got alarmist language, you have people who don't care about climate change any longer or afraid of the problem aren't thinking about it. They didn't show that one caused the other. They just showed that they're correlated. But other studies have shown that if you manipulate the public in a certain way,

you're going to have a counterproductive reaction from them, right? Yeah, not the reaction that you're intending, which I thought this was really interesting. The Northwestern study you cited in 2010 in Canada, they did a public service announcement that said he binge drinking has, is a bad thing. You shouldn't binge drink. You should feel guilt and shame for binge drinking. But what happened? Well, they found that people who were already exposed to the feelings guilt and shame and then were shown this tended to drink, were likelier to go binge drink within the next two weeks than people who were exposed to these ads and were, had some sort of neutral emotion going on, right? That's right. And even scarier, there was one in 2009 in the Journal of Experimental

Social Psychology, which is a fun read. Cigarette packs, they found that said really blatant, aggressive messages like smoking can kill you actually increased smoking in some people. Right. Very specific set of people. But if you're trying to get people across the board to quit smoking, it would be a good idea to not use these death-related messages. You want to go for death neutral messages. Is that what it's called? That's what it's called, really. Yeah. So that study, that 2009 study from the Journal of Experimental Social Psychology was carried out and conducted by some terror management theorists, Chuck. That's right. Terror management theory is the coolest sounding theory of all time, has nothing to do with terrorism. So all of you who are listening to

this podcast hoping for one on terrorism, you can now be officially disappointed. Yeah. And when I first saw terror management theory, the first thing I thought it was terrorism. I think of terror. You know what I see in my mind? I see like a 70s horror anthology paperback cover. Terror management theory. Yeah. Right. Like maybe a red skull or maybe the cover to Stephen King's dense macabre. I've never seen that. Yeah. Nice reference. Quique quab. What? Quique quay. You have that great funny line at the end of that one podcast. Which one? It was one that just came out recently. When I was doing the QA for the episode, I genuinely like was cracking up at my desk. That is awesome. That's very good. That happens all the time now.

So where are we? Terror management theory. This was created in the 1980s by psychologists at the University of Mizzou. Go Tigers. Tigers. Yes. Prairie Tigers. Go Prairie Tigers. And based on the work of Ernest Becker, who was the author of Denial of Death, which a lot of you may have heard of. And we've talked about him before, plenty. I think we have, haven't we? We've talked about him and I think definitely is there a worse way to die. Yeah. He came up big time. But he was an anthropologist who basically said, okay, all culture is created to distract us from being obsessed with our inevitable death. I think he was obsessed with death.

He definitely was. But through his obsession, he managed to free himself. I imagine. So that's what he thinks is a big distraction. Everything from sports on TV, television probably, war is used as a distraction and to create meaning in life. Well, actually, one of the war was a big one that he used. I can't remember what it's called. It's not Thanatology. That's like the study of death. Becker's was more like the obsession with death. But basically, he was saying we are aware innately that we do create culture to distract ourselves from death. So when we encounter another culture that's totally foreign or alien to us and we look at their culture, we see how ridiculous it appears that their belief

systems just appear ridiculous to us, that it reminds us that we do the same thing. Our beliefs are ridiculous. And then we start thinking about our own deaths. So we want to destroy this culture that we encounter because it's reminding us of our own death and we hate it. How does that fit in the cultural relativism? I wonder. That's the opposite of it. I was about to say. Cultural relativism is also flawed. We figured out to a certain extent because it just allows absolutely anything wholesale. But it's the opposite of what I just described cultural relativism as. But terror management theory takes Becker's ideas and introduces them from

anthropology to psychology and has really started to standardize them. So the idea is that you are afraid of your own demise and so you cling mad to the culture that you most identify with and you've come to identify with. Yeah. And they keep finding in study after study that this theory holds up. And that's called what? Distilled defense? Yes. Interesting. So let me give you an example of a study. There were a bunch of judges that were used in a study and I guess they chose prostitution to use it as like it's the same case, same offense. It was easily standardized maybe. But they took some judges and basically

were like, hey, you're going to die eventually to one group. And then they did another group where they gave them some activity that basically guaranteed death saliency, I believe, where they weren't thinking about death at all. And they sent both groups out to handle their prostitution cases. And the judges who've been reminded of their mortality tended to throw the book at prostitutes. And the researchers theorized or postulated that the reason these guys threw the book at prostitutes was because this was their, they were buying into their culture. They were clinging to their culture with morals and laws and what they believed in, right? And if you think about it, it makes perfect sense. Chuck,

you've been hung over like tragically hung over before, right? Yeah, once or twice. So you don't want to take any risks whatsoever. You kind of feel like you're at death's door. You're on some sort of edge right there where you're really hanging out there and you're really vulnerable. And like you, you maybe, you know, Milo and Otis makes you cry while you're watching it on the couch or like you really need to be around Emily and have her support right then, right? Yeah. I think that's the root of it. That's the basis of it. When we're reminded of death, we cling to what we find comfort in and we tend to find comfort in the charade of society or culture that we create. I bet you could even trickle it down a little bit, even beyond death

when you're feeling most fragile and vulnerable, which obviously death would be the ultimate in vulnerable vulnerability. Exactly. That's when you need the support most and you cling to what you know most. Right. But I mean, like if you got fired from a job or, you know, something, there was some disruption to your normal life. Right. You're going to cling to it. So that's distal. That's the distal defense. There's also proximal. And this, this is what regards to climate change. Yeah. And that's when you downplay the seriousness of something like, that's kind of me. I don't think about death much and I'm one to really like play it down probably. Like, oh, you know, sure, I'm going to die when I'm old like everybody, but I don't want to think about that.

You just downplay the significance of it. Right. I wonder though, I mean, like, is that the best you can hope for? What, to die when you're old? No, to, to just kind of downplay it and not like genuinely not worry about it. Like, is that really flawed? I hope not. I never think about death. But I guess what I ask, because I have the same approach. Like I tend to think, well, okay, I, I'm aware that I'm going to die one day. Yeah. You know, I'm aware of death. I don't think about it. I'm not obsessed with that, especially not my own. But I wonder sometimes like, in that last few minutes, am I going to freak out? Because people do. Yeah. Yeah, you don't see that in the movies. No. Emily is very preoccupied with death. Really? Yeah, she didn't talk about it much,

but she's, she's kind of a very dark side. Like, oh, I'm driving home and I could easily slip off the road and hit that tree or there's a tornado watch in the area and a tree is going to fall on our house and kill us all in our sleep. Whereas I don't think about that stuff. But how does she react to that? I think there's a low level of anxiety probably. Yeah. She would probably agree with that. Yeah. She didn't listen to the show. That's fine. See whatever you want now. The War on Drugs impacts everyone. Whether or not you take drugs. America's public enemy, number one, is drug abuse. This podcast is going to show you the truth behind the war on drugs. They told me that I would be charged for conspiracy to distribute 2,200 pounds of marijuana. Yeah,

and they can do that without any drugs on the table. Without any drugs. Of course, yes, they can do that. And I'm a prime example of that. The War on Drugs is the excuse our government uses to get away with absolutely insane stuff. Stuff that'll piss y'all. The property is guilty. Exactly. And it starts as guilty. It starts as guilty. The cops. Are they just like looting? Are they just like pillaging? They just have way better names for what they call like what we would call a jackmove or being robbed. They call civil acid for it. Be sure to listen to the War on Drugs on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. How's that New Year's resolution coming along? You know the one you made about paying off your

pesky credit card debt and finally starting to save for retirement? Well, you're not alone if you haven't made progress yet. Roughly four in five New Year's resolutions fail within the first month or two. But that doesn't have to be the case for you and your goals. Our podcast, How to Money, can help. That's right. We're two best buds who've been at it for more than five years now and we want to see you achieve your money goals and it's our goal to provide the information and encouragement you need to do it. We keep the show fresh by answering lists or questions, interviewing experts, and focusing on the relevant financial news that you need to know about. Our show is chock full of the personal finance knowledge that you need with guidance three

times a week and we talk about debt payoff. If let's say you've had a particularly spend-thrift holiday season, we also talk about building up your savings, intelligent investing, and growing your income. No matter where you are on your financial journey, How to Money has got your back. Millions of listeners have trusted us to help them achieve their financial goals. Ensure that your resolution turns into ongoing progress. Listen to How to Money on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So you've got proximal and distal defense mechanisms when reminded of mortality, right? Yeah, and imagine both can probably happen too, right? It's probably not one or the other. Right. But with the doomsday scenario and climate

change, it seems like terror management can explain that through the proximal defense where you just downplay it. You're like, oh, okay, well, who cares? It's not that big of a deal. It's not going to happen in our lifetime, that kind of thing. So I guess if we were to give advice to the media, which we never do in an article. Yeah, and media doesn't listen to us anyway, even though we're sort of a part of it, are we? I don't know if we ever fully concluded that. Yeah. Yeah. It would be to basically adopt the more pragmatic, optimistic approach, I think tends to work. But it doesn't look like the media is going to do it, Chuck, because tell them about CFLs. Yes, Josh, CFLs. When they first came out, it was all the rage and green living. Yeah. And as

soon as everyone was like, yeah, you know what, I can deal with the fact that it looks a little funny and I'm not used to this white or light. I'm going to do it because I'm going to do my part, my very small part. Like I can exact change against climate change. And then the media all of a sudden started reporting stories about mercury. Is it mercury? Yeah. In CFLs and you're going to die if you use them. Exactly. Alarmist language. It's just sensationalism and it's been around since the first words were printed. Yeah. Extra, extra read all about it. It was like you're going to die from the plague. Yeah. It's still around in this case. It's climate change and it's making people shrink under their couch instead of doing small things that can actually

make a difference. Prescription, Dr. Bryant. You know what I do is I don't read, I don't watch local news. I don't watch any news. Really? No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Do you? No. Now that I think about it, not really. I mean, I watch selective stuff. Like if there's like a good video or something, I'll watch it. But I think I get most of my news from Twitter or magazines. Yeah. I get most of my from the Internet and a lot of times not from, you know, leading sources on the Internet. You can usually get an honest truth if you seek out some of these other websites. Yeah. Okay. I wish I could think of one. So terror management theory and earn as Becker makes another cameo. Thank you, Dr. Becker for showing up. Go Becker.

If you want to learn more about doomsday climate scenarios, terror management theory, tobacco warnings, this article's got it all. You can type in doomsday and climate change. And I think it'll bring this article up and handy search bar brings up listener mail. That's right, Josh. We're going to call this these kids are ripping us off. Is this Catholic stuff you should know? No. This is tongue-in-cheek. So Josh, so Chuck, we are teachers. So Jerry, we are teachers at Mountain Ridge Middle School in Colorado Springs at the base of America's Mountain Pikes Peak. We were inspired by your podcast over the years and became regular listeners and decided our eighth grade class

should write podcasts in the style of stuff you should know, record them and edit them. Sounds like a good thing. Yeah. Cool exercise. So we shared portions of some of your podcasts with the kids, asked them to develop the plan in rubric and based on the elements they, based on the elements that they heard in your show, the Chuck and Josh isms, jazzy theme song, jokes and stats, demonstrating a thorough understanding, listener mail, the whole soup to nuts, basically. The students were permitted to choose their topics. I encourage them to find out what's the deal with whatever they were curious about. Topics range from hovercrafts to grilled meat and carcinogens to hypoglycemia. So these are some smart kids. Yeah. The sound quality isn't

as crisp, obviously, but you think you'll get a kick out of it. You should have heard our first ones before we got microphones. The most interesting aspect though, guys, was you're really surprised who excelled. One pair of students didn't have a history of being the most academically motivated, but their delivery was really smooth and professional. And the emo kids were surprisingly funny. They seemed to get the Chuck and Josh banner and could become excellent radio personalities one day. Awesome. Another group, shall we say, is not the most socially proficient face to face, but behind the microphone, they really came alive and had a fluid delivery and were animated. That was the emo kids. The chemistry was amazing between them. So that is from Emily and Sean,

who are the TAG coordinator and IB coordinator at enrichment team and enrichment team leaders. Nice. And we have a clip. They sent us a clip and we're going to play just a little snippet right now. Let's see what you guys think. Hey, from Colorado Springs, Colorado, it's just like mother used to know. Here's your host with the face for radio, Dakota. Dim sum originated from the older tradition of tea tasting. When people discovered that tea helped digestion, they began adding food to tea time, giving them dim sum. Dim sum is a dish that involves small individual portions of food, usually served in a steam basket or on a plate. Dim sum is typically served as a breakfast. This usually includes vegetables, steamed dumplings, roasted chicken,

and rice and noodles. Awesome. Pretty cool, huh? Yeah. Little emulators. Yes. Little rip-off artists. Yeah, I know. Just kidding. You guys will be hearing from our lawyers. That was an excellent job. And we want to tell the whole class way to go. And that's really cool that your teachers did this. Yeah. So thank you, Emily and Sean, for letting us know about this. We appreciate it. You guys keep on keeping on. Keep doing all sorts of cool things. Don't be so judgmental of the emo kids or people too. If you have a cool theory that you'd like us to hear of, I'm always down for cool theories, aren't you? Send it to us via email at stuffpodcast at howstuffworks.com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit howstuffworks.com.

To learn more about the podcast, click on the podcast icon in the upper right corner of our homepage. The HowstuffWorks iPhone app has arrived. Download it today on iTunes. Brought to you by the reinvented 2012 Camry. It's ready. Are you? Be sure to listen to the War on Drugs on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Claudia Lanier sang with Ike and Tina Turner and inspired songs by David Bowie and Mick Jagger. Chante Brode has turned Snoop Dogg from LA's worst drug dealer into a cultural icon. You can hear these stories and more on a season four of About a Girl, now nominated for two-signal awards.

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