Stuff You Should Know - What's the deal with totem poles?

Episode Date: November 17, 2009

If you've ever wondered where the expression "low man on the totem pole" comes from, this episode of Stuff You Should Know is a must-listen. Tune in as Josh and Chuck take a look at the origins, symbolism and history of totem poles. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It's time to reboot your credit card with Apple Card. Apple Card is designed to help you pay less interest. Unlike other cards, it estimates how much interest you'll owe and suggests moves to help you pay off your balance faster. Also, you can keep more of your money. Apply now in the wallet app on iPhone and start using it right away. Subject to credit approval.

Interest estimates on the payment wheel are illustrative only and may not fully reflect actual interest charges on your account. Estimates are based on your posted account balance at the time of the estimate and do not include pending transactions or any other purchases you make before the end of the billing period.

They're breaking in! From M. Night Shyamalan. Your family must sacrifice one of the three of you to prevent the apocalypse. We're not sacrificing anyone. This February. The last three times, for every note you give us, billions will perish.

This is so regional. Save your family. I'm on my family side. Or save humanity. No! Make a choice. Now get the cabin. Only in theaters February 3rd. Read it R.

Under 17 at a middle without parent. Brought to you by the reinvented 2012 Camry. It's ready. Are you? Welcome to Stuff You Should Know. From HowStuffWorks.com. Hey and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark with me as always

is Charles W. Chuckers. Bryant? Thank you. And Jerry, of course. Hi Jerry. She's waving at us. The omnipresent Jerry. And omniscient, scarily enough.

Josh, before we get going, can I just mention a little TV show coming up? I thought we were already going. No, we're not quite going. Oh, okay. There's a TV show that our parent company Discovery, specifically the Science Channel, has about a great fall tradition in Delaware

where they chunk pumpkins. Pumpkin chunkin. Pumpkin chunkin. And actually hurl these things through the air with a catapult. And it's fun. And they've done a TV show on it. And it's on.

They did two TV shows, buddy. Two, yeah. Say the names. Well, at eight o'clock on the Science Channel, it's Eastern time, there's going to be the road to Pumpkin Chunkin. And where does that road lead? To Pumpkin Chunkin itself.

Yes. At nine. And that is Thanksgiving night on the Science Channel and Science Channel HD. Yes. And we just wanted to say, watch it. Yeah. Because we like chunkin' pumpkins.

Pumpkin chunkin. And now we're going to talk about whatever you're going to cleverly set it up as. All right, you ready? Yes. Hey, Chuck. Hey, Josh. Have you ever heard the phrase,

the low man on the totem pole? I have. And you know what? Go ahead. So it's usually somebody who's the grunt. They're at the bottom. They're just there. It's us.

OK, there you go. Low man on the totem pole. Not true if you're suggesting that you and I are at the bottom of the heap. True. I had no idea. I'm so confused right now. I know what you mean.

It's actually, on totem poles, the lower carvings were actually of the most high esteem. Right. Had no idea. You do now. And I do too, because we read an article called How Totem Poles Work. By the way, I think we should start

using the correct version of that just to confuse people. Like, get on the elevator. I'm like, how's work go? You know, I'm the low man on the totem pole. They're like, sorry. What are you talking about in the VP? Right, yeah. Things are great.

Right. Or when one of the higher ups walks by go, there goes the low man on the totem pole. Exactly. Give me some skin. What happened? Did they get fired? So yeah, OK.

Well, Chuck and I are going to start confusing people after this, but let's talk about totem poles first. OK, let's do. I learned a lot of stuff in this one that I didn't know. Everything I read in here I learned, because I knew nothing about totem poles. Really? Have you ever seen one?

Well, I've seen them, but I didn't know anything aside from, you know, it's a pole. All right, well, let's talk about it. Let's share this information that we've learned. Let's impart it. So one of the things I learned, besides low man on the totem pole being actually important, is that the natives, Native Americans,

actually had socioeconomic strata. Yeah, strata. I didn't know that either. Strata. One of the two. Yes, they did. And I know what you're talking about here, because totem poles were typically commissioned

by people of esteem and people who had money. Right, people who wanted to show off, basically. And what they would do would be to commission a totem carver, who was a person of very high authority, low man on the totem pole, I might say. And the head carver would basically be treated with tons of esteem and respect and was housed at the home of the person who

commissioned the totem pole. Yeah, and basically retreated like royalty, because I guess this guy could be like, once you've commissioned this, I'm going to do it. And if you mistreat me, or I am not amused at any point in time, I'm going to carve you naked on this. And you have to put it up, because that is the law of the Pacific Northwest.

I got this from this that totem pole carvers were like many temperamental artists. It's kind of funny how they had that same attitude. It's cross-cultural. If you don't make me happy, I'm going to ruin your commission work and shame you with a shame pole. Right. Well, we'll get to that later.

Oh, Chuck, just foreshadowing. Euler. So the other thing I learned is that I'm just going to introduce every point with that for this whole pocket. Another thing I learned is that totem poles haven't been around that long. No, I did not know that either. And I will say that at the end of every time you mentioned that,

that I didn't realize it. They have just started in the 1700s. Late 1700s. And when the Europeans came over, is when they really, really started booming. They think the Haida tribe, HAIDA tribe of South Eastern Alaska, were the first to start carving totem poles. And I guess it was kind of slow going at first,

but really picked up once settlers, colonists, started hitting the Pacific Northwest in more and more numbers, because they brought with them tools. Yeah, but they were a little frightened by them. They were, which is funny, because from what I understand, European settlers were among the most superstitious, easily frightened, and most suspicious people ever to populate the Earth.

Seriously. Yeah, so they saw totem poles. And I think Captain James Cook had a famous quote, right? Yeah, he said that they were truly monstrous figures. Yes, and he was wrong. And then you also have the superstition or myth that totem poles were used to ward off or worship evil spirits, depending on how you felt toward your native neighbors.

Not true. No, so what is a totem pole, Chuck? Well, a totem pole. And totem, by the way, is an Ojibwa word. Is it really? Josh actually winked at me, by the way, just then, for real. A totem pole, Josh, many times is used to commemorate an event, like I looked some of these up, what it might commemorate,

a funeral sometimes, childbirth, marriage, and even menarche. No. Yes. No. Yes. Yes. I read that.

That is true. And they could range in size initially. And I didn't know this either. They could be as small as a walking cane. Yeah. Way smaller than I thought. I thought they were all extremely large. No, they definitely vary in size.

I've seen some that are like knee-high to a grasshopper, as you like to say. And then there's others that are 170 feet tall. Right, which we'll get into the world records here shortly, too. And no jackass could come along and carve some wood up and say, I just made me a totem pole. There are some very specific, I guess, details

that have to be followed for a totem pole to truly be considered a totem pole. Yeah, to be authentic, Josh, it needs to be the work of a trained Pacific Coast carver. Pacific Northwest. Pacific Northwest. Even more specific. And yeah, no San Diego carvers up there.

Forget them. It must be raised according to the specific American Indian traditions and ceremonies. There's a ceremony that goes along with it. Which we'll get to. And it must be blessed by natives of the Northwest Pacific Coast. Plus, also, it doesn't hurt your case

if you want to prove that you have an authentic totem pole that it be made from red or yellow cedar. Well, sure. You can't use power tools or chainsaws. Well, they do now, but if you really want to be authentic. You just wasted your time if you were trying to make an authentic totem pole. Right.

And there are certain colors there traditionally followed. Red, black, yellow, blue, green, white. Which I find to be an unappealing color combination, those four or five. Yeah. You know, it said they did not need to be painted. And I've never seen a natural totem pole, but I think that would be my preference.

Yes. And you can't preserve it in any way. Yeah, I didn't know that either. Which means that totem poles ain't going to be around all that long. An authentic totem pole has a lifespan of about 100 years. Especially in the Pacific Northwest, where it's wet, rainy, muggy.

Not good on carved wood. Yeah, that's not bad though. 100 years is pretty good. And did I also say it has to be from one single piece? Oh, no, you didn't say that. It's important too. Yeah, of course. OK, so Chuck, basically we've established

that totem poles are, there's authentic and there's inauthentic ones. You can't just be some jackass with a chainsaw. Right. They are the bar or bat mitzvah of the Native American culture. Sure, with the ceremony and the. Sure. And that they are commissioned, usually

by a wealthy Native American, by a head carver. Right. So you've got the head carver. He's got a couple of junior carvers and they get to work. Right. And here we reach why the low man on the totem pole is actually the most prominent figure. I know why.

Why? Because the head carver carves the lower parts of the totem pole. Yeah, the first 10 feet. And I would say, and this is just a guess, but I would say probably because they don't want to stand on whatever you need to stand on. That's part of it. It's also that's also the most visible and scrutinizable.

Yeah, yeah, good point. OK, so the carver finishes and probably some of the stuff that he's put on there, there's some basically he'll say, tell me about your family history. Yeah, yeah. What kind of birds are you fond of? Right. Do you have any ancestor who has ever shape-shifted

into an animal? Right. And the carver is going to take all this into account. The person who commissioned it will probably have some ideas. And then they combine them and you have things like eagles, thunderbirds, bears, owls, wolves, ravens, frogs. And each one kind of has a different meaning in Native American culture.

Sure, should we go over those briefly? Sure. Well, the eagle, obviously, flies higher than any other bird. It's high. And it can spot trouble, so that's a good thing. Sure. And the thunderbird is a mythological creature, and it can create lightning and thunder

by beating its wings and blinking. Which is why it's mythological. Yes. Bear, obviously, teaches Natives certain things like how to hunt salmon and how to forge for berries. So that's probably good luck to have on your pole. Owls represent souls of the deceased. So that might be a mortuary pole.

Oh, actually, no. That is when the ashes are actually in the pole, correct? Right, that's a type of pole. There's a entryway totem pole, which is kind of like a coat of arms. And that's what a lot of the early settlers of the Pacific Northwest took these as, is a coat of arms, like a family coat of arms.

So you've got entryway totem poles, mortuary poles, which actually do have a hollow cavity to put the ashes of a dead person in. Yeah, it's like an urn, basically. Yeah, a very cool urn. A very tall urn. And then there's ridicular shame poles, like you mentioned, right?

That's what I want to bring back the shame pole. OK, so Chuck, talk about the most famous one, the Lincoln pole in Saxman, Alaska. Yeah, this is when, and I didn't know this either, this is a chocolate pole. Here's another thing I learned. Native Americans had slaves. The Lincoln pole was actually to shame the US government

because of the Emancipation Proclamation in 1863. And many members of the, was that Lingit? Is that how it's pronounced? The Lingit tribe? Lingit. I think the team might be silent. OK. But their slaves were freed.

I didn't know that Native Americans had slaves. I know, that's what I just said, neither did I. And so they got all mad and said, you know what? We're going to do a Lincoln pole, and it's going to shame President Lincoln for the Emancipation Proclamation. Actually, that's not true. I guess I did know that they would capture other people

in battle and force them into slavery. I didn't know that. OK, so Chuck, we've got the type of pole established. Right. We know what's on the pole, and it has to be raised now. Well, this is when the fun starts. Yeah, the rowdy fun. Yeah, we're talking about the potlatch.

And a potlatch is basically a big whopping party that you raise the pole. Obviously, you put it near the ground, and you have the ropes, and you pull it up and sink it into the ground. And then it sounds like, from what I researched on potlatches, it's just a big friggin' party. So now we've reached the Native American equivalent

of a bat mitzvah and an Amish barn raising put together. Oh, did they do the same thing? Well, the Amish raised barns is a big communal event. Have you ever seen witness? Yeah, but did they have a big party? Yeah, well, an Amish party. Everyone eats sandwiches and drinks lemonade. Sure.

And the reason we can get away with that is because no Amish person will ever hear this podcast. That's right. And if you write in and say you're Finnegan's Amish, then you're a liar. Liar. All right, so Chuck, they have a great party, and apparently it does get rowdy, as I alluded to before,

because the Canadian government actually banned potlatches. I know. At some point in time. And that had a really deletrious effect on the number of totem poles that were carved and raised in North America in the 20th century. Because a totem pole without a potlatch is like a donut without a hole.

Very much so. It's like a jelly donut. Yeah. And that's not the only reason that totem pole carving declined in the 20th century. And actually, it came very close to the point of extinction. The Native American children were not being educated in traditional means any longer

in the traditional ways. Yeah, sure. So they were losing that knowledge of how to carve a decent thunderbird. There weren't a lot of head carvers that were being trained any longer. Atari. Atari is generally pointed to as one of the biggest reasons

that totem pole raisings declined. And there was also a ton of theft by museums and private people. I didn't hear about that. We just go steal totem poles for their own collections. How do you hide a totem pole? I don't think you really try to. You just say, you've been exploited by my people a really long time.

I'll just take this and get away with it. It was so rampant, in fact, that in 1990, President George H.W. Bush. That's Herbert Walker. Yeah, Herbert. Bush signed the Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act. And it basically said, if you've ever stolen a totem pole,

take it back. And people did. And as a result of this kind of renewed enthusiasm for totem poles, we lost our puritanical fear of them. People started carving them again. You know what else is in that bill? What? Wiretappings.

Oh, bad. So they try to sneak wiretappings in. Take totem poles back and talk openly on your phones. Right. So OK, so there's a resurgent in totem pole creation, right? Yes, indeed. And native and non-native, right? So let's say, Chuck, I'm like, I want an authentic totem pole

to talk about my daughter's monarchy. Well, then like anything else, Josh, you would get on the internet and search totem pole carving. And you would find some people that do that for a living. Right, some native and some non-native. Yeah, depending on which one. So if I wanted an authentic one, how much am I going to shell out?

Josh, you would have to pay about $25,000 to $100,000 for authentic. Outrageous. Yes. I won't pay more than $10,000 for that totem pole. You saw a charlatan. Monarchy and no monarchy. So yeah, that's, and I think like $750

is the low end of a non-authentic three-foot pole. Right, and about $15,000 for a 20-footer, right? Non-authentic. Non-authentic. Right, right. But you know, who knows? No one knows. Yeah.

Josh, you want to talk about the records? Yes, this is stat heavy, Chuck. And stat heavy, everything that comes out of Chuck's mouth right now is a statistic, right, Chuck? Richard in South Korea, good luck here, buddy. Albert Bay, British Columbia has 173-foot-tall totem. That's got to be the world's tallest totem pole, right? Think again, sir.

Because there was one that the Guinness Book certified at 185 feet. That's got to be the world's tallest totem pole. In Victoria, British Columbia, but you know what? It was torn down because of controversy. The town evidently got really upset about all the grief about the Guinness Book record. And was it authentic?

And was it really the tallest one? So an angry mob, from what I gather, led by Motobotinda, tear down this totem pole and cut it up into pieces and burn it, the record holder. There goes the grief. I mean, how much grief could it have caused? I don't know. Yeah, I mean, that's got to be, I've been to Victoria.

It's not exactly like a rough and tumble town. It's pretty peaceful. So I imagine there must have been a tremendous amount of grief. I guess so. Or they hadn't put their chainsaws to use lately. And we're looking, Betty was hungry. Right.

But the thickest pole, Josh, is not disputed. That is in British Columbia as well. And that was carved by Richard Hunt in 1988. And it has a diameter of six feet. That is one thick pole. Yeah. And I'd like to say, Richard Hunt, if you listen to this podcast, I would

like to see a picture of your totem pole. Yeah, seriously. So email it to us. I can find a picture of it. We'll give the email address at the end. Right now. Is that the end? I think so.

You got any more on totem poles? I got nothing else. I like the ones with the wings. I'll just say that. Like at the top, there's a thunderbird with the wings coming off the side. I mean, it makes sense to have them at the top, but that's at least important.

So yeah. So if you want to know more about totem poles, then I kid you not, Chuck and I learned a lot of surprising facts that were just kind of in between the lines of this article. It happens a lot on howstuffworks.com. You can type totem poles into the handy search bar of our venerated site.

And I guess it's time for a listener mail, right? Yes, Josh. I'm just going to call this. I'd like to read these funny emails from time to time. This guy's really funny. He's a good writer. He's clever, so he gets on the air. This says, hey, guys, I've been traveling backwards in time.

And I'm writing you from February, 2009, where Haiku Theater ends abruptly with Refrigerator in sayings like the Germans, compass head, and it's a puncy scheme haven't even been uttered yet. By some strange quirk, when I load your podcast into my iPod, they play back in reverse chronological order, giving me side effects like hearing listener mail for episodes that haven't even happened yet.

However, unless I start tattooing myself like the guy I'm a minnow, I'll probably just keep things the same as it makes listening even more fun. And we've heard this before, that people listen out of order and they like that better. I'm no stranger to self-imposed odd circumstance. For instance, I purposely use my mouse left-handed, even though I'm right-handed.

I sometimes reason things out while I'm dreaming. I often balance on one leg while brushing my teeth. I like this guy. I learn to read things upside down. And he has also run into some groovy things, like when I was in the army, I knew a guy who saw things upside down and backwards, and he learned to cope by writing things upside down

and forwards. Or I guess right side up, oh no, upside down. Right side up. I once dated a girl whose mother would eat the same thing for every meal for a period of time. Two weeks of hard-boiled eggs for every meal, black licorice for three days straight, et cetera. And I once worked with a guy who owned a car that

wouldn't make left-hand turns. He's my favorite dude. And basically, he's leading up to a request. All of this makes me wonder if you should do a podcast on something like, how living strangely works, an explanation of odd things that people choose to do, which may or may not actually provide tangible benefit to their lives. We'll get fuller to pitch it.

Maybe so. So that is from Michael Meck. You're not going to say my last name on the air anyway. Kraken from Colorado. Nice. Thank you, Michael. Yeah. Very funny.

Yeah. If you have a funny email you'd like to send Chuck and I, they're our favorite. You can send it to, oh wait, or if your name is Richard Hunt and you've created the world's thickest totem pole, you can send it to StuffPodcast at howstuffworks.com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit howstuffworks.com. Want more howstuffworks?

Check out our blogs on the howstuffworks.com homepage. Brought to you by the reinvented 2012 Camry. It's ready. Are you? You're ready to travel in 2023. And since 1981, Gate One travel has been providing more of the world for less. Let Gate One handle the planning for you with affordable

escorted tours in European River Cruises. And right now, through January 30th, use promo code HEART20 to receive 20% off your tour. That's promo code HEART20 through January 30th. Visit gateonetravel.com for more information or to book your tour. That's gatethenumberonetravel.com. Once again, use promo code HEART20 through January 30th to receive 20% off your 2023 trip.

The South Dakota Stories, volume one. She was a city girl, but always somewhere else in her head. Somewhere where bison roam, rivers flow, and people get their hiking boots dirty, like actually dirty. So one day she fled west and discovered this place of beauty, history, and a delicious taste of adventure. But before she knew it, she was driving away with memories to share and the hopes of returning.

Because there's so much South Dakota, so little time.