Stuff You Should Know - What's the gig economy?

Episode Date: June 11, 2019

The gig economy is not new, but it's bigger than ever. Is that a good thing? We'll discuss that today! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

On the podcast, Hey Dude, the 90s called, David Lasher and Christine Taylor, stars of the cult classic show, Hey Dude, bring you back to the days of slip dresses and choker necklaces. We're gonna use Hey Dude as our jumping off point, but we are going to unpack and dive back into the decade of the 90s.

We lived it, and now we're calling on all of our friends to come back and relive it. Listen to Hey Dude, the 90s called on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Lance Bass, host of the new iHeart podcast, Frosted Tips with Lance Bass. Do you ever think to yourself, what advice would Lance Bass

and my favorite boy bands give me in this situation? If you do, you've come to the right place because I'm here to help. And a different hot, sexy teen crush boy bander each week to guide you through life. Tell everybody, ya everybody, about my new podcast and make sure to listen so we'll never, ever have to say. Bye, bye, bye.

Listen to Frosted Tips with Lance Bass on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Hello there, it's me, Josh, and I just wanted to let you know, people living in Minneapolis or with access to Minneapolis, I'm gonna be in your city doing my solo show, The End of the World, or How I Learned

to Start Worrying and Love Humanity. It's a gas, and it's pretty interesting too. So on June 19th, I'll be at the Parkway Theater in Minneapolis, and the next night, I'll be at the Miracle Theater in Washington, D.C. So come see me, go to themiracletheater.com or theparkwaytheater.com for tickets. Welcome to Step You Should Know,

a production of iHeartRadio's How Stuff Works. Hey, and welcome to the podcast, I'm Josh Clark, and there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, and there is our guest producer today, Dylan. Yeah, Dylan, it's been a minute. Yeah, we picked Dylan up by advertising on TaskRabbit, saying that we needed a guest producer today, and here he is.

That's not true. But it could be, Chuck, it could be. That is true. It is true. The reason it could be is because, whether you know this or not, Charles, we are living smack dab in the middle of what's called a gig economy.

Sure, partially, yeah. Yeah, and a lot of people are blaming the recession for it, and I think that's definitely part of it. Like there's an abundance of people who didn't have jobs starting in late 2008, early 2009, and it's kind of become the tradition to give people jobs but not give them full-time jobs because there's a lot of things you can get around

if you're an employer, as we'll talk about. So the gig economy has developed as a part of the recession, but it's also developed because there's been a lot of tech, there's been a lot of slow-paced government playing catch-up. There's an abundance of workers, but it's nothing new. The idea of kind of being paid as an independent contractor working to fulfill a particular task

and just getting paid for the task, which is kind of the basis of the gig economy, that's actually pretty old from what I read. Prior to the Industrial Revolution, that's basically how most people made a living unless you were like a highly skilled crafts person, right? Like a brewer or a blacksmith or something like that. A Smithy? A Smithy.

Yeah, I mean, things really changed at a certain point where it went from that to you get a job for a company and you work for that company for 45 years and then you retire for that company. Right, and they take care of you in retirement and while you're working for them. And that was really how things went for a long, long time for like our grandparents' generation

and even to a certain degree, our parents' generation. And things really, really changed again. And now we kind of are back in this place where the gig economy can mean a lot of things. It can be, I mean, technically any freelancer, like when I used to work as a film production freelance, production assistant, that's technically part of the gig economy.

Yeah, because you were paid for the gig. You weren't like part of a company's, you weren't a full-time employee with a company, right? Yeah, but like when I hear gig economy these days and I think most people associate the modern 2019 usage of it, you kind of think of the tech industry and you think of being a driver for a rideshare company

or selling stuff on Etsy or working for TaskRabbit or something like that. Yeah, I mean, it's basically synonymous with tech platforms that connect people to consumers directly. That's kind of, and gig economy, I think that's a really good point. When you use the term gig economy,

yeah, that basically describes this modern incarnation of it. But gig work, like you were just saying, is it's been around for a very long time. And like, remember all those temp services like manpower and there was something. I had temp for a little while. Okay, so that's gig work too.

Basically, if you're a dog walker and you go put a sign on a street pole or a light pole at the corner and you've got like the little tear offs for your phone numbers. Yeah, street poles. That's basically working in the gig economy. Now, if you took that street pole

with the little flyer that you made and swapped it out for an app, that's basically what we're living with right now. Yeah, so here's a stat for you. There are all kinds of stats for the gig economy. But here's one from, in 2005, the gig economy was about 10% of the US workforce. And just 10 years later that had grown to about 16%.

And then just one year later in 2016, 24% of Americans reported earning some kind of money from what they called the digital platform economy. And that's what we're talking about with like ride share or Airbnb and task rabbit and stuff like that. So that's a lot of people and that's, we'll get into other stats later

about whether or not these are people that are doing this little thing on the side like I work my day job, then I go drive for Uber at night or basically more and more people are doing this as their full-time job without the benefits of being full-time employees. And from the very sparse number of studies

that are actually like conducted on this gig economy and the ramifications it holds, those are the people who work full-time in gig economy jobs, especially tech platform jobs. They tend to be the most vulnerable as far as workers go. Yeah, so there's really a few, well, there's three parts to this.

There's the platform companies that are, I mean, it's kind of funny. I guess it's genius in a way, but all they're doing is connecting people. Yeah, they're replacing those old like temp agencies. And they're, but you don't have to go in and fill out stuff. You just log on, create a profile and start. So that's one appealing part of it too.

Yeah, so what they do is they're gonna draw that direct line between you, between the consumer and the producer. So they, everyone who's ever done a ride share knows, you just click on the little thing and you can pay through the website and they get whatever percentage of money they get the- 90, I think.

Is it 90%? No. No, no, no, the technology platform gets money and obviously the gig worker gets money. Right. And all they're doing is facilitating that connection. Right, but they're also one of the things that these apps can do that is totally new

and revolutionary is that they can fulfill demand. They can connect supply and demand in real time. Yeah. Like, you know, when you hail like a ride app or hail a ride through an app, I think is the way all the millennials put it. Yeah, by the street bowl. Right, you have just entered like this world

where you are saying, I need to ride right now. And they say, oh, well, we have a car near you right now. Let's send this person over. Like it's real time demand that's being fulfilled. Whereas if it were just that person who is in a car and saying like, I could use some extra scratch, I wanna take you somewhere, what are they gonna do? Like just drive down the sidewalk and be like,

do you need a ride somewhere right now? No, okay. Do you need a ride? Think about how much time that takes off of their plate. And that's really the role that the platform performs is connecting consumers with producers. Yeah, and as far as being a gig worker, there are a couple of big categories.

It's either sort of the, if you don't necessarily have a college degree, you might be on the lower income side of a gig worker, which could be someone who delivers something to your home. Or one of these services where you can call a handyman to come over and do something like cut weeds in your front yard. Sure.

Or it can be on the very, very high side. I got a list of the highest paying gig rates and the very top one is something you probably know a little about from your end of the world research, but deep learning jobs. Oh, really? So the AI's? 115 bucks an hour.

Wow. Yeah. What is that, like consulting or something? I think it's just any kind of AI specialization. Gotcha. Where that's the kind of rate you can command on an hourly basis. Yeah, that's pretty good.

Yeah, blockchain was number two at 87 bucks an hour. Robotics, $77 an hour. Number four was penetration testing jobs, which... What is that? What do you think? Penetration testing jobs? Give me your best guess. I want to let's play a game.

Like allowing yourself to be punctured by stuff or shot at? I mean, like that bullet works. That needle's sharp. Give me some money. No, it obviously sounds dirty, but it's all it is. It's like security to see if your security can be penetrated. I got you. I got you.

That makes sense. That would be a cool gig. You just get hired on to just mess with somebody's cybersecurity and find weaknesses, right? Yeah, but then it goes all the way down to number 10, which was Instagram marketing at 31 bucks an hour. Wow. Wow.

That sounds made up, but wow. It sort of does, but this is... I mean, those are the highest paying gigs. There was one film industry job in there, Final Cut Pro editor, $37 an hour. I can see that. So those are on the high side, but I mean, what are these drivers making?

Is this something like $12 an hour on average? That's the national average after expenses, but before whatever taxes they need to pay. And they do need to pay taxes. This is a hard lesson that some gig workers are finding is that this isn't like tax-free money just because the money's not so great doesn't mean it's not tax-free.

Like you still have to pay taxes on this. You still have to file like self-employment tax in some areas, some cities, some counties, some states. You have to have a business license. There's a lot of hidden costs that a lot of people don't know about. And because as I was saying before, governments from the local level up to the federal level

have been so slow to like pivot, I guess, in Silicon Valley corporate speak to this new reality of tech platform apps that the gig economy functions on. There's a lot of people out there who just are unlicensed, who aren't paying taxes and who hopefully will never find out the hard way that they did, but maybe find out the easy way like through us

and then start and don't have to pay anything for back. Yeah, and there are certain municipalities and is that right, municipalities? Man, you nailed municipalities. The only way it could have been better Chuck is if you'd done it with a horribly stereotypical Italian accent. Chew it, do it.

No, no, no, no, no. Did you see that guy right in and said, I sound like a cartoon chef on TV. And I was like, oh, well, that's right. I was like, you didn't think I was trying to pull off a real accent, did you? That's what I'm going for. I wanted you to know what it sounded like

to hear Chef Boyer, do you know what? Yeah, basically. So a lot of counties now are getting involved though, because, well, they say they want to help them transition into the gig economy and learn to put away money, to pay taxes and stuff, what they're really probably doing is making sure that they pay their taxes. Right, and it's not just counties that are getting

into it, states are, the federal government's kind of, but it looks like it's starting to become a patchwork of state regulations. And we'll talk about that in a minute, but first Chuck, why don't we take a break? Let's do it. Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. On the podcast, HeyDude the 90s called David Lasher

and Christine Taylor, stars of the cult classic show, HeyDude, bring you back to the days of slip dresses and choker necklaces. We're going to use HeyDude as our jumping off point, but we are going to unpack and dive back into the decade of the 90s. We lived it, and now we're calling on all of our friends to come back and relive it.

It's a podcast packed with interviews, co-stars, friends, and nonstop references to the best decade ever. Do you remember going to Blockbuster? Do you remember Nintendo 64? Do you remember getting Frosted Tips? Was that a cereal? No, it was hair.

Do you remember AOL Instant Messenger and the dial-up sound like poltergeist? So leave a code on your best friend's beeper, because you'll want to be there when the nostalgia starts flowing. Each episode will rival the feeling of taking out the cartridge from your Game Boy, blowing on it and popping it back in

as we take you back to the 90s. Listen to HeyDude, the 90s, called on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Lance Bass, host of the new iHeart podcast, Frosted Tips with Lance Bass. The hardest thing can be knowing who to turn to when questions arise or times get tough,

or you're at the end of the road. Ah, okay, I see what you're doing. Do you ever think to yourself, what advice would Lance Bass and my favorite boy bands give me in this situation? If you do, you've come to the right place, because I'm here to help. This, I promise you.

Oh, God. Seriously, I swear. And you won't have to send an SOS, because I'll be there for you. Oh, man. And so, my husband, Michael. Um, hey, that's me. Yep, we know that, Michael.

And a different hot, sexy, teen crush boy bander each week to guide you through life, step by step. Oh, not another one. Kids, relationships, life in general can get messy. You may be thinking, this is the story of my life. Oh, just stop now. If so, tell everybody, ya everybody, about my new podcast,

and make sure to listen, so we'll never, ever have to say bye, bye, bye. Listen to Frosted Tips with Lance Bass on the iHeart Radio App, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to podcasts. And it's like it's not true, I won't shock. So, we were saying that there are, the governments are starting to get into this finally,

years on, basically. I mean, the gig economy itself is many, many years old by now. And they're just now starting to pass legislation. But not all of it is, you know, like on the county level, putting up educational posters saying, hey, you're a small business,

you need a license to do, you know, to drive for Uber or whatever here. It's not just that. There's also a real frequently overlooked component of the tech platforms that connect consumers and producers. And that is that their profit margins are based largely on getting around labor laws that have been established throughout the 20th century.

And that are just outdated. The tech platforms, the apps that connect people were built up around those laws. And they skirt the law very plainly. I mean, there've been court rulings and federal agency rulings to say, yeah, they're right. Like these aren't employees, these are independent contractors.

And so they don't get overtime, they don't get unpaid, or they don't get paid vacation time. There's all this stuff that the health insurance is a big one. So that's a huge chunk of revenue or of outlay that the companies who like Uber or TaskRabbit or whoever don't have to shell out.

That means that's more profits for them. And it's also something that their competitors like cab companies say have to pay. So it's one way that the cab companies lose against the ride hailing apps. But the people who are out there still need health insurance. They still need health care. They still need food.

And so the companies that make these platforms tend to kind of offload the responsibility that used to be on the company's part onto local governments. And so what local governments are trying to figure out is like, well, with this influx of gig economy workers saying like I need Medicare or I need food stamps or something like that,

how can we deal with this? And there've been some, a couple of interesting proposals at least for how to get the companies to pay for benefits that companies traditionally have paid for, but in this new gig economy. Yeah, I thought this one was really interesting. Portable benefits.

So, if you've ever changed jobs or if you change jobs a lot on a full-time basis, you know that it can be big pain to your benefits are always changing. Sometimes they're better, sometimes they're worse, but they're bound to be different. And that's just a hassle. Oh yeah.

The idea of portable benefits basically that you own as an employee. So when you go to a new job as a gig worker, you take your benefits with you and basically just plug it into their system and say, well, you are now gonna contribute your employer portion to my portable benefits. Yeah, it's kind of like the difference

between a 401K and an IRA, right? The IRA is yours no matter where you go. The 401K is between you and your employer. Imagine if all you ever had was an IRA, but your employer paid into that, but it was for health benefits rather than retirement. So it was always yours, but just depending on who you worked for,

part of what you got paid was an additional premium that was a contribution to your benefits, whether it was a retirement package or dental or vision or health or whatever. And it was always you, it was associated with you, the worker, but everybody from each task paid into that. It's a great idea and apparently it works too.

Yeah, and I'm not super sure this. The other idea is that of a dependent contractor rather than an independent contractor. And that's basically if you receive the majority of your income from one company, then they need to do things like pay your health or contribute toward your health insurance. What I don't get is what's the difference

between that and being a full-time employee. There's nothing. It's basically just calling Uber out on its BS and saying, these are your employees, dude, without having to say, hey, federal government, you guys need to revise the independent contractor laws because this is different. These are states or local governments saying,

you wanna do business here, these people are dependent contractors and you have to provide them with benefits. Sorry, that's just the way it goes. And if you get a big enough county or city or state and the app or the platform wants to do business there, they will do this and it stinks and you have to have different people who are experts

in the different states you're doing business in. But eventually, if enough different states have slightly different laws that are all to the same effect, companies like Uber are gonna go to the federal government and be like, can you please pass a law that says that we have to provide benefits for these people? And maybe they're not the greatest benefits. We don't wanna give away the farm,

but it will be more cost effective for us to just have one standard to adhere to nationwide. Then it will be to have 50 different laws that we have to adhere to nationwide. And how do they do that? Through lobbyists paying tons of money. It's true, but in this case, it would benefit people but it's a ground up push from the local

and state governments basically agitating for the federal government to take action. Yeah, I mean, Uber certainly had its share of missteps along the way. Yeah, a few. And even if you cast those aside and not to pick on them, let's just talk about any app based gig economy or gig job or whatever.

I guess gig is all you need to say really. It's a mouthful, isn't it? You can't help but just picture a back room, board room in Silicon Valley with these dudes just saying like, here's what we'll do. We'll develop this app that connects people and we take a cut and we're gonna have tens of thousands of drivers all over the country working for us.

And then the other person goes, yeah, but man, do you know how expensive that is with payroll and this and that and insurance and everything? Oh, no, no, no, the best part is they're not employees. Right. Like I'm sure that was the very first, in the very first meeting, that was the big like, oh, I get it and they all laughed.

Oh, I'm sure the room went breathless. Yeah. Like that's, it was literally world changing. I mean, like that's the state of affairs now. And yeah, it had to start somewhere. I'm not sure where it started, but it started somewhere. But like you said earlier, that is the, I mean, and they've proven it with financials.

We're not just saying this stuff. That is the reason they are profitable is because they're not having to pay this dough. Right. And unfortunately, it's also the reason why people who rely on gig work full time to make ends meet and who are not, who don't have any kind of higher education and are not skilled workers.

That's why they are increasingly turning to taxpayer funded public assistance for things like healthcare and food and basically making the ends meet. Because from, like I said, the few studies that there are out there, what they're finding is that there's a segment of people who work in the gig economy who cannot make ends meet with gig work. And it's not just to pick on the platforms and the apps

that make up the backbone of the gig economy. Because it says a lot that if there are people and the vast majority of people who do gig work, I think you said earlier, they don't work full time. They do it to supplement income, but they're not supplementing income. I saw somewhere, somebody said, they're not supplementing income to save up to go to Hawaii.

They're doing it to buy medicine and food and pay utility bills. So that actually says a lot about the state of work in general, not just gig work, because if you have a regular job, whether it's part-time or full-time, and you have to have a side hustle, which by the way is a term that's been around since 1950, I saw.

Side hustle? Yeah, there's a problem with work in general. You know what I'm saying? Where you cannot make ends meet just with your regular full-time job or even a couple part-time jobs. So you have to do gig work too. But the people who just do gig work,

those are the people who are the most vulnerable. And they usually, if you're a driver, you make about 1190 an hour. That's the national average. Yeah, here's some stats for you. The Federal Reserve did a report, and from 2018, 58% of full-time gig workers said they would have a hard time coming up

with a $400 emergency bill. Like if they had to go to the hospital and pay 400 bucks, they couldn't cover that. Nearly 60% of them. Yeah, and that's compared to 38% of people in just the regular economy, not the gig economy. Right. And they did surveys that said 5% of people said that gig

working, this is out of 11,000 people who did gig work at all. 5% of them said it was their main source of income. Right. Which is a pretty small amount, but that's growing. I think between 2016 and 2021, they're projecting it to grow from like 3.2 million people to close to 10 million people, like working gig economy jobs.

I saw somewhere 60 million, fast company predicted something like 60 million Americans are gonna be working in the gig economy by 2020, which is far and away the highest number I saw. Yeah, man, that's crazy. But yeah, I've got another stat for you. I saw, I think in Barons, I believe it's Barons, the gig economy, gig work accounted for 94%

of net employment growth between 2005 and 2015. So that means that all of the new jobs that came in and all the old jobs that went away, 94% of the jobs that accounted for the growth of work in America were gig work. That's astounding, 94%. Yeah, I mean, I feel like every time I go to publics, 25% of the people in there are shopping for other people.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. You can tell by their t-shirts. Yeah, they wear the shirts and Emily's done that a couple of times, you know, too busy working parents. She's, I can't remember the service that we use, but I don't like it because I like to chop for my own stuff.

I do too. I don't want people picking out my food. Yeah, when they bring the bag, you hold up an orange, you're like, did you touch this? This is not even that. It's just, you know, you want to pick out your own stuff. Yeah, I know. At least I do. I'm just teasing.

I like running errands myself too. And it feels like it's never right too. They'll be like, oh, well, I couldn't find the thing. So I got this. Is there? It's not what I asked for. I saw Questlove, like hadn't had peanut butter, cat and crunch and like forever.

And he posted something I think on Instagram where he ordered some from like TaskRabbit or something. And the guy brought him regular cat and crunch and a jar of peanut butter. He threw it down the hall of his hotel, which I thought was a little much, but it was a pretty good ending to the slideshow. Might be pretty good though.

I did, I had a very, something very heavy to move in my home recently that was just sitting there because I couldn't get a friend over. And I had never heard of TaskRabbit. And someone said, you should try TaskRabbit. And I did look up and I was like, you get a young, strong man to come over and lift something heavy for you in like an hour's notice.

And I was like, man, I feel like I should probably just get this done. And I got distracted and didn't do it and was able to get friends over, but I didn't even know it existed and that you could get that kind of work. Yeah, I think for TaskRabbit you can do just about anything. And there's something in the UK,

there's a site called Fiverr, F-I-V-R, I think. I've heard of that, I think. And like every, like all tasks on it are for five bucks or like whatever you want the person to do, they'll either do it or won't do it, but the price you pay is five bucks. So it's like small, quick, easy tasks. It's supposed to be.

Quite a wonder, what's worth $5? Like you'll get my mail? See if this needle's sharp. I want to do a puncture test on you. Back to that one again, huh? I guess we should mention the strike that happened earlier this month. We're recording this in May, 2019.

Just very recently there was, there were thousands of Uber and Lyft drivers who went on strike, not just in May, but kind of all year long, this has sort of been brewing, I think. And it sent Uber stock prices down for one. Dude, by two thirds, they started out with a $120 billion valuation

and ended up at the end of the day, I think at $40 billion. Yeah, and that's where this whole idea of like, is it exploitation? Like, because I mean, the courts have roundly kind of said like, no, you can't unionize, you're not employees. Right.

And these are in some of the most liberal courts in the land. Right, you're an independent contractor, so you don't get overtime, you can't unionize. There's all sorts of stuff that you just can't do because you're an independent contractor. And that's slowly starting to change. Yeah, but the whole idea of this strike is they're basically saying,

you have intentionally misclassified us as non-employees. And I'm sure they're like, yeah, that's exactly right. Right, I think that's like in our terms of use that we intentionally misclassify you. Well, they probably say we have intentionally classified you as what you are, which is a non-employee, but the drivers are saying they're misclassified, obviously. Right, so there was a big lawsuit,

a few hundred thousand Uber drivers sued Uber and they very recently settled, I think in March, with like 13,600 of them. Yeah. And they were given $20 million to split between them, which sounds like a lot, but it's actually like less than 1,500 a driver for basically saying we have been underpaying you.

The other like 300 something thousand drivers didn't get squat because they all signed an arbitration clause in their agreement, which you should never sign if you have any say in it whatsoever, because it basically says, I can't sue and anytime I have a problem with you, we will go to a mediator who you pay to decide whether my claim has any value or not.

So it's a terrible, terrible thing to sign, but on top of that, if you are a full-time gig economy worker, you basically don't have a choice and the company you're working with as an independent contractor knows that. So there's almost certainly going to be an arbitration clause, but that's a really good example of what happens when you sign an arbitration clause,

you lose out on the settlement because you said that you are waiving your right to a trial. Right, and aside from stuff like health insurance, the drivers are angry because Uber in major cities has been cutting driver pay rates because they're trying to get their bottom line down and say, hey, look everyone, look at our bottom line. How attractive is this?

Yeah. So like I was saying, this is slowly starting to change thanks to regulation and we'll talk a little more about that after this break. Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. On the podcast, Paydude the 90s called David Lasher and Christine Taylor,

stars of the co-classic show, Hey Dude, bring you back to the days of slip dresses and choker necklaces. We're gonna use Hey Dude as our jumping off point, but we are going to unpack and dive back into the decade of the 90s. We lived it, and now we're calling on all of our friends to come back and relive it.

It's a podcast packed with interviews, co-stars, friends, and nonstop references to the best decade ever. Do you remember going to Blockbuster? Do you remember Nintendo 64? Do you remember getting Frosted Tips? Was that a cereal? No, it was hair. Do you remember AOL Instant Messenger

and the dial-up sound like poltergeist? So leave a code on your best friend's beeper, because you'll want to be there when the nostalgia starts flowing. Each episode will rival the feeling of taking out the cartridge from your Game Boy, blowing on it and popping it back in as we take you back to the 90s.

Listen to Hey Dude the 90s called on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Lance Bass, host of the new iHeart podcast, Frosted Tips with Lance Bass. The hardest thing can be knowing who to turn to when questions arise or times get tough, or you're at the end of the road.

Ah, okay, I see what you're doing. Do you ever think to yourself, what advice would Lance Bass and my favorite boy bands give me in this situation? If you do, you've come to the right place because I'm here to help. This, I promise you. Oh, God.

Seriously, I swear. And you won't have to send an SOS because I'll be there for you. Oh, man. And so, my husband, Michael. Um, hey, that's me. Yep, we know that, Michael. And a different hot, sexy teen crush boy bander

each week to guide you through life step by step. Oh, not another one. Kids, relationships, life in general can get messy. You may be thinking, this is the story of my life. Just stop now. If so, tell everybody, yeah, everybody about my new podcast and make sure to listen so we'll never, ever have to say bye, bye, bye.

Listen to Frosted Tips with Lance Bass on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. There is like a Joshua on a shock. So Chuck, New York really kind of changed things recently. That one study, or a study, I don't know if we talked about it yet. The study with 11,000 people was conducted by the Fed.

Yeah. There's another study conducted by, I think you see Berkeley in the new school and they basically found like most, I think 58% of drivers driving for ride hailing apps in New York City, not just Uber, but all of them, especially the big four via Juno, Lyft and Uber. 58% of them work full-time.

So they're basically independent cab drivers who are not licensed cabbies. 50%, I believe, have families that they're supporting with that. They're working for about 1190 an hour and 40% of them qualified for Medicaid and 18% qualified for food stamps. And this was shocking enough to the city government

of New York that they passed the country's first, and maybe the world's first as far as I know, minimum wage law for ride hailing app independent contractors. And it's actually more than the minimum wage for New York in general. Yeah, I mean, basically the New York came out and said, first of all, Uber, they could fix this. If they just had a very small fare adjustment

that passengers would probably not care about, then they could pay them fairly and increase driver pay. But since they're not gonna do that, we're gonna step in. And I believe it was at this past January, they were required to start paying drivers after expenses, about $17.22 an hour, which is about $5 more per hour than the previous almost $12 per hour average.

Right, so that's a big deal. And I mean, that was a huge win for the independent contractors who work for ride hailing apps, at least in New York, but also it set a precedent across the country basically saying like, yes, if you are a big enough town, you have the clout to look out for these workers who are being exploited by the tech platforms

that they're partnering with as independent contractors. Yeah, and actually today, as we record this, the state assembly in California passed legislation that required employers to recognize gig workers as employees with what they call the Dynamics. It's the California State Supreme Court said in May 2018 that this three-part test called the Dynamics would be used to determine

if contractors qualify as employees. So to be exempt from labor requirements, an employer would be required to prove that one, its workers have complete control over how services are provided. So in other words, Uber can't give a minimum amount of hours that you have to work or say you have to drive every Tuesday or whatever, I'm not sure if they even do that, but...

No, I don't think they do. And I think that's part of their argument why they're not employers because the worker sets their own schedule. All right, and number two, the services provided are not related to the employer's main business. So that's a big one.

Yeah. Because that rules out all the, I mean, all the ride chairs. Right. Because they say that their main business is app development. Right, yeah, that is... I'm not sure if that's a loophole. Yeah, I don't know about that one either.

And then number three, the worker is engaged in an independently established role. So this is a big deal because other states, a lot of states look to California because this is where a lot of the gig economy, the modern gig economy was born. And this is sort of the first big California legislation that's gone down the road.

Yeah, no, that is a big deal because it's like that's their home court making laws against them. Yeah. So that definitely kind of indicates like a turning tide. And again, it's not just like governments looking out for their citizens, although I'm sure that's part of it, but it's also governments looking out

for their own bottom line because those citizens are having to come and say, I need healthcare again. It's really important, frequently overlooked point. But despite all that, and I mean, you said it's easy to pick on Uber, they're kind of a model for this kind of thing, but they're certainly not the only ones.

But it also, when you just focus on that, you miss out on the other aspect of the gig economy, which is that it's a double-edged sword. For some people, freelancing a gig economy has allowed them to basically pursue their dreams and become quite successful at doing what they wanna do on their own terms, on their own schedule. And there are supposedly a pretty decent amount

of people out there who are doing it that way, but usually they're highly educated and they work in a craft or an artistic or kind of elite field, specialized field. Yeah, like AI or robotics. Sure, or if you are a consultant of some sort, especially a very specialized consultant, you don't have to spend the time and money

going out and drumming up business for yourself. You can go to platforms like Upwork and find people who are looking for the stuff that you do way easier than before. And that's a huge benefit of this gig economy. It's become way easier to find work, whether it's driving for a ride-hailing app or being a marketing consultant.

Like it's from top to bottom, it's easier to find work than ever. Yeah, but it's also like, the people are in these situations a lot of times because they were unable to find the job that they wanted on a full-time basis. Right. It is a very tough nut to crack

because even in rideshares, when you get in a car, nine times out of 10, my driver is very happy doing what they do and they always say pretty roundly, like, oh, it's great, man, it's set my own hours. And I mean, it sounds like, I don't know if they're encouraged to say these things. Right, yeah. But it sounds like an ad for when you sign up,

because they kind of pair it exactly the things that they try and entice you with, which is you're your own boss and you set your own hours, only drive when you want to. But that is the deal. And no one's forcing them to go do this and you are putting money in their pocket. I mean, I always tip super big.

That's, I think the only thing within your control or not use these apps at all if you think they're evil. Right, which is another way to look at it for sure. But then all of a sudden, you know, there's a lot of people that depend on that money that are being hurt, it's tough. Right, no, it is for sure. Like that is another thing about the gig economy too,

is you can say like, well, I mean, you're having trouble making ends meet, I get to like hire you and like have an impact on you being able to make ends meet. Right. Or it's just, it's such a first world thing to be like, I'll forget all, you know, platforms and apps because they exploit workers.

Well, they also help people make money where they otherwise couldn't. So there's like, it is very much a double edged sword. There's definitely exploitation, but there's also certainly an uplift of the middle class that wasn't happening before. There's also been an uptick in New York taxi driver suicides. Really?

Yeah, that have long been blamed on rideshare because it's put such a dent in taxi cab incomes, driver incomes. So I looked into that a little bit and then found out this whole other world about, you know, the whole deal with the taxi medallions. Yeah, like people buy the medallions as like an investment and then they like lease out the license to cabbies, right?

Yeah, we need to do a full show on that because it is way more involved than I thought. And I was gonna talk about it some here, but it deserves its own episode. All right, deal. But they're saying that that is a big part of the problem for the suicide rate as well. It's sort of both of those things contributing.

Right. So taxi medallions, look for that one. Okay, that's a deal. There's two other things in New York that I wanna point out. Actually, two other platforms. Two other things you wanna point out. The Empire State Building is very nice. Right, that's one.

And take your ride on the subway. Right. There's a cleaning service called MyClean. That's like an app where they started out with like the normal Silicon Valley model where they just have independent contractors. And they actually converted and started hiring their contractors on as employees.

And there's another one called Hello Alfred, which is kind of like a personal assistant, a team of personal assistants that you can basically involve in your life as much or as little as you want. What's it called? Hello Alfred, it's just in New York and it's only in certain buildings in New York

from what I can tell. But they'll do everything from like keep your plant alive to walk your dog, to do your grocery shopping, to pick out clothes for you, to have your shoes repaired, whatever. Just basically keeping your life in order for you. But because they try to anticipate the things their customers need,

they realize that they need employees. They need people they can have turnover and frequent training and introducing their customers to new people. They need people who are gonna be there for the long haul. So they started out having employees too. And that really kind of underscores a big reason why having a full-time employment is preferable to gig employment.

Especially if you're a company because there's less turnover, there's less training involved. And usually the worker is a lot happier when they have a steady full-time gig and then that's their only job and they get two weeks paid vacation every year or more if you're in Europe.

And that has a benefit for the company because that's the person who's communicating with the public or making the stuff. And they don't hate their life or their job. So they're just producing better too if you wanna look at the ickyest economic terms. Yeah, that's interesting. I thought so too.

Hello Alfred. Yeah, I think you just became their spokesman. Are you got anything else? No. I don't need, oh, there I do have one more thing. Chuck, you ready? Yes. This whole peer-to-peer platform thing reminded me,

we have a Kiva team and I went and checked on it. I did that just the other day. So you saw what the big number we're approaching on on total donations, I think you should take this one. Well, you had the most recent number. It was close to six million the other day. Yep, still is. It's really creeping up on $6 million

in total loans loaned out. Dude, it had been a while too. That's so funny, we both had that same thought. Man, that's really something else. Yep, so congratulations to the stuff you should know Kiva team. There are people joining. I saw people joined yesterday.

So it's wide open if you want to learn more about it, just search Kiva, K-I-V-A and stuff you should know. And not only will our Kiva page come up, but some blog posts we wrote about in the past come up too, which is hilarious and quaint. All right, well, since I said quaint, Chuck, it's time I think for Listener Mail. All right, I'm gonna call this tin pan alley follow-up.

I enjoyed that episode. Me too. Hey guys, if you asked me what tin pan alley was prior to listening to this episode, I would have said somewhere in New York where music started to be popular, and that's about all I could tell you. And guys, I graduated with a Bachelor of Music

in Music Education. What? It's not that I'm so far out of college either that I don't remember music history. I'm only 25 and I'm finishing up my third year teaching orchestra at a fourth, fifth and sixth graders. Didn't even really know much about tin pan alley. I know.

The last semester of music history in college had to cover Late Romantic to Present Day, which is over a century worth of music. This was so much more interesting than the one slide in music history class at 8 a.m. I am one of many listeners sitting in the DC Metro traffic. So thank you for teaching me new things every day.

And that is from Consuelo Sevilla. Not Sevilla. No, it's... She wrote back even. Wow, two Ls? Yeah, yeah. She said, this is the Filipino pronunciation, not the Spanish.

Gotcha. So thank you, Consuelo. Yeah, thanks a lot, Consuelo. Glad to know we are rounding out your education even after you graduated. Yeah. Well, it's kind of the purpose of the show, isn't it? I think so.

Well, if you want to let us know what you think the purpose of Stuff You Should Know is, we're amorphous and wide open. So let us have it. You can go to stuffyshano.com and check out our social links, or you can send us a good old-fashioned email. Wrap it up, spank it on the bottom,

and send it off to StuffPodcast at iHeartRadio.com. Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio's How Stuff Works. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app. Apple podcasts are wherever you listen to your favorite shows. On the podcast, hey dude, the 90s called,

David Lacher and Christine Taylor, stars of the cult classic show, Hey Dude, bring you back to the days of slip dresses and choker necklaces. We're gonna use Hey Dude as our jumping off point, but we are going to unpack and dive back into the decade of the 90s. We lived it, and now we're calling on all of our friends

to come back and relive it. Listen to Hey Dude, the 90s called on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Lance Bass, host of the new iHeart podcast, Frosted Tips with Lance Bass. Do you ever think to yourself, what advice would Lance Bass

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