Stuff You Should Know - Why doesn't the FDA regulate herbal supplements?

Episode Date: November 13, 2008

For thousands of years, societies across the globe have used herbs as medicine. While this practice continues today, the FDA does not regulate these potent substances. Find out why the FDA can't regulate herbal supplements in this HowStuffWorks podcast. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Chris saw it all and now he's telling all. It's going to be difficult at times. It'll be funny. We'll push the envelope. We have a lot to talk about. Listen to the most dramatic podcast ever with Chris Harrison on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Brought to you by the reinvented 2012 Camry. It's ready. Are you? Welcome to Stuff You Should Know from HowStuffWorks.com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. That's Chuck. I'm Josh. This is Stuff You Should Know. Right. Coming to you live from Studio 1A. Deep within the bowels of How Stuff Works corporate headquarters in Atlanta, Georgia. Right. That's gross. Yeah. I like to do that.

Chuck, my father spent the better part of the late 90s. He took a lot of pills. They were all herbal supplements, mind you, but he would take uppers in the morning like herbal uppers. Interesting. And then he'd take herbal downers like 202s or 404s. I can't remember what they're called in the evening to relax. Right. And I call them the herbal Elvis. And I kid you not. He did this. I gave it up and down and up and down. And finally, he kicked the habit, I guess. I don't know if he takes it. I know he takes a lot of vitamins and stuff, but I think it's healthier. Right. And plus now he's retired. He has less reason to wake up in the morning. As long as he didn't pass away in the toilet. No, he hasn't. He hasn't. And thank God.

But the thing is, it kind of points out like herbs can really pack a punch. They can. You know? Like take Mahuang, for example. Can I? Sure. Mahuang, better known in this country as a fedora or a fedron, which is actually the alkaloid, the isolated alkaloid of Mahuang, which actually in Chinese means bitter yellow. Right. Mahuang. Bitter yellow. It points to the the color of this little evergreen shrub in the horrible taste of its leaves. Mahuang. Has a terrible taste. Sure. A bitter yellow taste. So, you know, the Chinese have been using this shrub for like 5,000 years, right? And they're not really having a lot of trouble with it. Right. It comes to the United States in the 90s. And all of a sudden, between like the early 90s and 2003, there's like

16,000 cases of death and injury reported to the federal government. Right. You've got truckers and college students popping white crosses. They're also a key ingredient in methamphetamines. Exactly. Yeah. In meth labs. Yeah. So, I mean, what happens? What happened? Right? I mean, the Chinese used this stuff for 5,000 years. Right. It comes to the U.S. and within a decade, 16,000 people drop like flies. Yeah. I'll tell you what happens. Americans love to get high. Yeah. It's as simple as that. Yeah. Abuse. Exactly. It's abuse. It's a lack of understanding, it's a lack of respect. Right. To the Chinese, what we consider herbs, they consider drugs. Right. And what we consider herbs, we don't really fear. We find them all natural. We don't,

you know, it's not regulated by the FDA. So, how could it be harmful? Right. That's one of the interesting things I think you pointed out was, if something is, the more heavily something is regulated, the more people will fear, the less something is regulated, the more they think it's just fine. Exactly. Think about how you perceive Tylenol. Sure. And then how you perceive Tylenol-3, that stuff with codeine. Right. Which is pretty much like 800 milligrams of Tylenol. Right. Something like that. Really not that big of a difference. If you've ever taken them, the difference isn't significant. No. But yeah, one's like under lock and key behind, you know, the pharmacist's counter. And the other one's just right out where God and everybody can shop

lift it. Exactly. So, I mean, you perceive them as different because they're regulated. Right. Because the government's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, pal. Right. You just need to kind of back off that. With herbs, there's no regulation whatsoever. They don't even sell them in the same places, the Tylenol. Right. So, they seem even less significant as far as the health risks go. But that's not true. There's plenty of herbs out there that are just crazy potent. Uh-huh. Like Datura. You know what an angel's trumpet is? No, I don't. It's not an article. Don't bother looking for it. Okay. You can find an angel's trumpet plant in just about any southern backyard. They have like these long trumpet-shaped flowers,

hence the name. Right. And if you eat one of those flowers, within an hour, you will be baying at the moon and beating up the cops who come to arrest you. Really? It will drive you nuts. And this is just an ornamental plant in the U.S. No one has any clue about it. Sounds like you've got some experience here. Yeah. I've never, I've never had the gall to actually eat one because I don't like eating grass, which is apparently another side effect. I think you might have licked a toad or two in your day. No, well, actually, I've seen warnings to gardeners saying if you have an angel's trumpet plant and you're messing with it, especially the flowers, like do not rub your eyes. Right. Wash your hands.

It will send you on a wild ride. It's interesting. That's just one of many. Monkshood is one of the most potent chemical compounds, naturally occurring compounds, known to man. It can kill you. Oh, very easily. Right. Stop your heart and lung function. Just from handling it. Yeah. So, I mean, there's a lot of potent herbs out there because they grow from the ground. Right. Because we have been weaned. We've been at the forefront of modern medicine. We kind of disregard herbs. Right. Jemson weed. That's another one. That was an interesting one, wasn't it? Yeah. That's the hallucinogenic. And I think you mentioned Jamestown in your article. Yeah. Detachment of the Jamestown Colony militia ate a bunch of that in its salad,

and it just went crazy. We're just basically tripping for several days. Yeah. I think the guy who described it said they turned natural fools upon it for several days. Right. So, but that was quite a shock to them. Yeah, I bet. Yeah, they didn't get a lot of work done those days. There is no need for the outside world because we are removed from it and apart from it and in our own universe. On the new podcast, The Turning, Room of Mirrors, we look beneath the delicate veneer of American ballet and the culture formed by its most influential figure, George Balanchine. There are not very many of us that actually grew up with Balanchine. It was like I grew up with Mozart. He could do no wrong. Like he was a god. But what was the cost for the

dancers who brought these ballets to life? Were the lines between the professional and the personal were hazy and often crossed? He used to say, what are you looking at, dear? You can't see you. Only I can see you. Most people in the ballet world are more interested in their experience of watching it than in a dancer's experience of executing it. Listen to The Turning, Room of Mirrors on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The war on drugs impacts everyone, whether or not you take drugs. America's public enemy number one is drug abuse. This podcast is going to show you the truth behind the war on drugs. They told me that I would be charged for conspiracy to distribute 2200 pounds of marijuana. Yeah, and they can do that without any drugs on

the table. Without any drugs, of course, yes, they can do that. And I'm the prime example of that. The war on drugs is the excuse our government uses to get away with absolutely insane stuff. Stuff that'll piss you off. The property is guilty. Exactly. And it starts as guilty. It starts as guilty. Cops, are they just like looting? Are they just like pillaging? They just have way better names for what they call like what we would call a jack move or being robbed. They call civil asset. Be sure to listen to the war on drugs on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. But okay, so I think we've established the argument that herbs are potent. Very much. And the problem is, is Americans don't have an ingrained respect for their potency

as do some of the older cultures. Right. And beyond that, Americans in the 1990s and into the 2000s, traditional Chinese medicine became more and more popular. So not only are these herbs packing a punch and not regulated, but people really started getting into it. Yeah. And in Asia and what's the one St. John's wort? Sure. You know, people think that these are just cure-alls. And it's not that they're not. It's not that they don't have properties. This isn't like snake oil that we're talking about. It's that since they're not regulated, since they're not really looked into, you have to effectively self-medicate or listen to some jerk at the health food store who may or may not have any idea what he or she's

talking about. Right. So it can be kind of dangerous. The problem is, is because of, you know, the arrogance of Western medicine, that it's the only true viable and effective medicine, people pick up on that. So when people started taking herbs, just average Joe's patients will call them. When they started taking herbs, a 2003 survey found that 70% of people who take herbs don't tell their doctors about them. Right. Because they're afraid they're going to be told to not take them anymore. Right. Which is a good fear because, you know, doctors don't understand herbs any more than the guy at the health food store. It doesn't probably last. Right. So you've got that problem. And as a result, this thing called complementary and alternative medicine came

about. It was basically saying, look, people are running around taking herbs. We need to incorporate these other medicines into Western modern medicine. Right. And see what we can do. It's probably a good idea. It was a great idea because traditional medicines generally are best at curing chronic diseases or handling chronic diseases. Right. Whereas Western modern medicine is best at acute diseases or acute, you know, a condition. So my rule of thumb has always been rheumatoid arthritis, traditional medicine shot in the leg. You want to go with the Western medicine. Right. Yeah. So gunshot wound Western medicine. That's a good rule. Rheumatoid arthritis. Yeah. You want to go with the traditional medicine. So there was a movement to incorporate these two.

Right. And the problem is, again, doctors don't know any more about herbs than you or I. And doctors can get sued a lot more easily if they say, take this herb and the person dies. Right. If we say that, we're just like, oh, man, sorry. Didn't mean to do that. Doctors like, oh, okay, well, there goes my practice. Right. So of course, doctors aren't going to recommend this stuff. So C. A. M. Cam never took off at all. Right. There is no need for the outside world because we are removed from it and apart from it and in our own universe. On the new podcast, The Turning, Room of Mirrors, we look beneath the delicate veneer of American ballet and the culture formed by its most influential figure, George Balanchine. There are not very many of us that actually grew

up with Balanchine. It was like I grew up with Mozart. He could do no wrong. Like he was a god. But what was the cost for the dancers who brought these ballets to life? Were the lines between the professional and the personal were hazy and often crossed? He used to say, what are you looking at, dear? You can't see you. Only I can see you. Most people in the ballet world are more interested in their experience of watching it than in a dancer's experience of executing it. Listen to The Turning, Room of Mirrors on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The war on drugs impacts everyone, whether or not you take drugs. America's public enemy,

number one, is drug abuse. This podcast is going to show you the truth behind the war on drugs. They told me that I would be charged for conspiracy to distribute 2200 pounds of marijuana. Yeah, and they can do that without any drugs on the table. Without any drugs, of course, yes, they can do that. And I'm the prime example of that. The war on drugs is the excuse our government uses to get away with absolutely insane stuff. Stuff that'll piss y'all. The property is guilty. Exactly. And it starts as guilty. It starts as guilty. The cops, are they just like looting? Are they just like pillaging? They just have way better names for what they call like what we would call a jackmove or being robbed. They call civil asset for it.

Be sure to listen to The War on Drugs on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And so why? Why wouldn't the FDA regulate herbs? Well, I think the research you found, or you posited, was that herbal ingredients and supplements don't have to be classified as drugs. They're dietary supplements. No, that's exactly right. And this came about through the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act, which was issued in 1994, which is right when this stuff is really gearing up. There are a lot of questions like, should the FDA get involved? And the government said, no. Not only that,

we're going to put herbs squarely out of the FDA's jurisdiction. See, with any kind of pharmaceutical, even an over-the-counter drug. Are we talking about approval here? Yeah. You and I would have to basically test these compounds, test them on rats, and then possibly other primates, and then move to human trials. It costs millions of dollars, not necessarily to the pharmaceutical companies. They get a lot of their research done for free by universities. But it does somebody's putting in millions, if not tens of millions of dollars, and an average of eight and a half years to get it to the FDA for approval. And the FDA either says no, or they say yes, and then they decree it as

a controlled substance, like a prescribed pharmaceutical, or over-the-counter, right? Right. I thought it was interesting that the fact that only 0.1% of compounds first tested receive FDA approval, that's way, way low. Yeah. And completely opposite of what I thought. You have to go back to the drawing board. I know. But you have to prove step by step that this is not harmful to humans before the FDA approves it. Right. What the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act, the DSHA, basically says is not anymore, not with herbal supplements. It's actually the opposite. Yes, the shoes on the other foot. The FDA has to prove that these herbs are harmful before they

can get them taken off the shelves. Right. And basically, they have to prove that the herb poses a significant health risk or an imminent public health risk, public safety risk. Yeah. And I bet the FDA only gets involved if there are a bunch of cases where this happens. Yeah. I mean, think about how many. So it might make a big stink. Right, exactly. And it's a really long process. It's a really involved process. And the FDA, like most other federal agencies, is perennially understaffed and underfunded. Right. So it can be very difficult to get something taken off the market, even if it is hurting people.

Right. And in the meantime, it stays on the market until they can draw that line. Exactly. So there are some limitations to it, to what Dietary Supplement Herbal Manufacturers can say. Right. One thing they can't do is they can't say that their products treat, cure, or mitigate a disease. Right. Now, this is how they market themselves, correct? Yes. Right. Yeah. So, for example, somebody who manufactures an herbal supplement with passion flower, they can't say that the product treats anxiety. Right. Instead, they can say something like it quiets an anxious mind. Right. Which, to me, sounds a lot like the old 19th century tonic commercials. Exactly.

Tonic advertisement. Like heroin, it quiets the anxious mind kind of thing. Right. Sure does. It sounds a lot like that. Right. And it gets to the same point across as well. Yeah. You're basically saying. Sort of a loophole. Anxious, anxiety, same thing. Right. Quests, cures, whatever. There's also one other thing that you can't use ingredients that are already banned. In April 2007, a Chinese product called Seng Zhong Zhu Tong Tan.

I believe that's what it's called. I probably just butchered it. It was taken off the market in the US because it contained human placenta. So, the FDA does have some teeth here and there, but for the most part, if you and I want to go somewhere and take some herbs, manufacture it, we can sell them. There are hearts content, kill a bunch of people, make a lot of money, and get out before the FDA can ever save food. Right. Kick back on the beach somewhere. Let's go do it. Live the good life. Yeah. So, if you want to find out more about herbal supplements, the FDA, all sorts of other

stuff, just go check it all out. Use our handy search bar at howstuffworks.com. It's a cornucopia of information. Pharmacopia. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit howstuffworks.com. Let us know what you think. Send an email to podcast at howstuffworks.com. Brought to you by the reinvented 2012 Camry. It's ready. Are you? Attention, Bachelor Nation. He's back. The host of some of America's most dramatic TV moments returns with the most dramatic podcast ever with Chris Harrison. During two decades in reality TV, Chris saw it all and now he's telling all.

It's going to be difficult at times. It'll be funny. We'll push the envelope. We have a lot to talk about. Listen to the most dramatic podcast ever with Chris Harrison on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Lance Bass, host of the new iHeart podcast, Frosted Tips with Lance Bass. Do you ever think to yourself, what advice would Lance Bass and my favorite boy bands give me in this situation? If you do, you've come to the right place because I'm here to help. And a different hot, sexy teen crush boy bander each week to guide you through life. Tell everybody, yeah, everybody about my new podcast and make sure to listen.

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