Subpar - Geoff Ogilvy talks his strategy for the 2026 Presidents Cup at Medinah, playing there with Tiger and Phil, and his favorite course designs

Episode Date: February 11, 2026

On this week's episode GOLF's Subpar, Colt Knost and Drew Stoltz are joined by eight-time PGA Tour winner Geoff Ogilvy. The 2026 International Team Captain talks his plans for this year's Presidents Cup, if working on the redesign of Medinah gives him a strategic advantage and his favorite courses from an architectural perspective. --Thanks to our official sponsor Zone Nicotine.Warning: This product contains nicotine.  Nicotine is an additive chemical.  Underage sale prohibited.  Introducing Zone Nicotine Pouches - the perfect balance of unparalleled comfort - longer-lasting flavor - and nicotine that satisfies.  Whether you’re zoning in for an important putt or zoning out after a tough day at work, Zone gets you there faster and keeps you there longer.  Available in seven flavors and in six and nine milligram strengths.  Want zone pouches at a discount and mailed right to your door? Head to⁠⁠⁠⁠ Nicokick.com⁠⁠⁠⁠ and enter code “SubPar20” at checkout for an additional 20% off.

All right, welcome back to Subpar with Colton Nost and Drew Stolts. And Sleys, it was a hell of a week, but I'm going to be honest. I'm not too sad that it's over. The WM Phoenix Open was incredible, but rather exhausting at the same time. I spent a long time looking forward to it each year. Then as soon as it ends, I'm like, oh, we have a whole other year until that happens again. I mean, it's one of one. It's the best week of the year.

But as you can tell from our voices, and we gave ourselves an extra day to recover this year. it's a big week, dude. But what a hell of a week, and we got a hell of a champion at the end and another great finish like we tend to. Yeah, I mean, the week got started off with our friends over at Zone, had an awesome party down at Whiskey Row. Pat Perez, Michael Turner joined us. Really cool to be down there with those guys.

That Michael Turner, he's funny. I like that guy. He could go. He could definitely go. We might need to get him back in here and do a little longer chat with him. But he was fun. Pat Perez, good to see Patty again. you know, kind of rip the Band-Aid off.

We're coming, you know, coming back to the PGA Tour. It'll be awesome to see him in some major championships as well. And, I mean, the man looks good, don't he? Yeah, he's been in the gym, working hard on the game. I can't wait to see him out there on PGA Tour Champions. But like you said, got three major championships ahead of them this year. And then we'll see him out there in 2027. Before we get to the WM. Phoenix Open, let's get zoned in with our friends over at Zone

NICATIN. And this was long overdue, in my opinion, but such a cool. moment because I don't believe he had any clue it was coming, but you're a Thunderbird, and now we have a new honorary Thunderbird. The great Gary McCord was brought in on Sunday of the Dunby of Phoenix Open. I know you were there, and I heard it was just an unbelievable moment. Yeah, it was a really cool moment. Like typically, it's not every year, but the outgoing, you know, guy who was the term of chairman last year, you can nominate honorary Thunderbird. And this year, it was Gary McCord. He had no idea of it. But every Sunday before the, you, you know,

you guys go on the coverage, Jim Nance comes in and talks. And this time, he brought Gary. And Gary had no idea what was going on. By the way, it took some real serious arm twisting to get him there. As you know, a guy who spent his whole life in golf. He's not racing down to attend the Phoenix Open anytime soon. So he got there and they started launching into it. Hey, we have a big special announcement. You know, this guy played over 400 events on the PJ tour. He's a Southern California Hall of Famer. And like at that moment, I'm staring at McCord the whole time. Like, all of a sudden, And he's like, holy shit, this is going to be me. And he had no idea.

And he and Nance got up there and kind of relived some old memories. We gave him the tunic and the necklace and all that stuff. And I tell you, like, you know him extremely well, too. He's not a guy. A, he hates recognition. He hates getting, like, credit for much. But he, and he never gets emotional. But at this thing, there was a moment where I was like, he's about to cry.

He's going to cry. And he didn't, but he got it. And it was a really, really cool moment. And cool for Jim to be there, too, you know, to, relive some of their glory days. Yeah, he brought him into the 18th Tower afterwards, looking good in the tunic. It was good to see magic, but

yeah, very well deserved. Very long overdue. That was cool. So congratulations him. And to all the Thunderbirds. Y'all put on a hell of a show. It helped that it was 80 degrees and perfect every single day. But the crowds were amazing. The golf course was fantastic. And Chris Goderup is showing he is

a bad man. Up to fifth in the world. He's won two or three events this year. Now his fourth win on the PGA tour. I would say kind of stole this one a little bit, but he played great on Sunday shooting 64. Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't be like going to early back nine. I was like, well, damn, Chris ain't going to do it. He wasn't really like on the radar. And then birding five or the last six all of a sudden, even when he finished, the shot he had on 18, the second shot was just unbelievable.

When he hit that up there to kick in virtually, I was like, damn, that's an unbelievable finish five out of six. Probably going to be at least one shy. You just expect Tedchi to, you know, probably not stumble, maybe pick off a birdie on 17. and it was what we talk about with the closing stretch at TBC Scott Still. Like a lot of crazy stuff happened. Thorbjorn, Michael Thorpe Bronson, Eagles 15, takes the lead for a moment, and then follows it up with back-to-back bogeys, Hideki with a bogey on 18. I couldn't really see it, but it looked like, was that just a bad strike from that?

Like, he had plenty of room, huh? We were down there. I couldn't see it. It was 111 yards, but yeah, he just absolutely knifed it. Like, I mean, he still had to hit a pure shot. I mean, the Church Pew was there, but I don't think. think he ever thought it was going to be in play. He just hit it right in the forehead, but pretty shocking. I'll tell you this. I got a text from the great Stanford Steve this morning.

He said, tune in to bad beats tonight because your man Hedecki is going to make it an appearance because it looked like he had that tournament in the bag, drove it just horrendous on Sunday. And then, you know, not birding 17 from right in front of the green and then making the bogey on 18. Open the door for Chris Godder up and he walked right through it, man. Made the birdie on the first playoff hole. And it's just shocking to see. I don't think it's shocking. I mean, you've always, you've said for a long time,

you're very high on Chris Godder up. Obviously, a lot of people know he has a ton of game coming out of Oklahoma, but man, he is rolling right now. Yeah, I've been high on him, but I wasn't expecting, hey, he's going to win four times or three times in the last eight months or whatever it's been. And I think testament to Chris, like everybody knows how hard he hits it. You know, he's one of the longest guys on the PJ tour.

But you look at the places like he's won, just take the most recent three. the Scottish Open, Link-style golf. By the way, then backed it up and had a very nice open championship right after that. Then Sony, earlier this year, not a, like, a completely different golf course

than obviously Lynx and now TPC's Scottsdale. Like, he's done it, and he's kind of shown his game can travel to any type of golf course, which a lot of guys can, but there's not a ton of them. Yeah, congratulations to him, man. Pump for him.

Another guy's game who travels pretty well, Scotty Sheffler, who played the, probably one of the worst rounds he's played in an extremely long time on Thursday, shooting 73 in good conditions. And then didn't really seem like he had a ton going his way all week long, and then all of a sudden you look up, and he just missed a playoff by a shot.

He had a lob wedge sandwich from the middle of the fairway on the 72nd. If he gets that up and down, he's in a playoff, which is crazy. I mean, there was talks Thursday, like, oh, my God, is Scotty going to miss the cut here? Is Scott are he going to miss? I was like, I will bet you whatever you want that he plays the weekend, and he may contend in this damn thing, and damned if he didn't do it.

And to your point, it wasn't like his best stuff after that, but he spotted Goddra up, who was his playing partner, I believe, Thursday. He spotted him 10 after Thursday and almost caught him. Like, that's the difference, man. Everybody's good is really good when they have it. You just don't have it all that often. His not good is just so much better than everybody else's. He can miss a playoff by a shot playing the way he did last week.

Yeah, 17 straight top tens. 13 of those are top fives. It's just been a ridiculous run, and he comes to a Pebble Beach, this week, our first signature event of the season and heading into Riviera next week. We're going to see two more weeks of world number one. Can't wait to see what he does here around Pebble Beach, a place he has not won yet, but smallest screens on the PGA tour, I feel like it should set up rather well for him. Yeah, I feel like there's not a place that doesn't set up well for him.

But yeah, I also, he's like the only guy I think on tour that can finish second, really never be in contentioned the whole week, basically, to the last few old and be like super pissed off and that's a motivator. I think most guys would be sweet. I just backed door to third, you know? And him, he's probably like, that's disgusting. Got to be better. Only made a half million. Yeah, it's a down week.

He made more than I did, sleaze, because I lost $100 to Johnson Wagner on our closest to the pin on 16 from the general admissions grandstand. How was that, though? Great shots, by the way. I think Waggud needs to just start bringing out a piece of mat when he relives these chips. Like, look, I don't want to tear up the course. Use a mat. The mat was a nice little bonus at 8.30 in the morning, a little chilly, you know, after three or four straight days of Phoenix Open activities. But it was cool, man.

That shout out to our man Sellers Shy who came up with this idea when he texted Johnson and I was like, y'all are going to go up in the stands and hit a shot? And I was like, well, are there people going to be there? He's like, yeah. Oh, yeah. It's Saturday morning. Like, it's going to be packed. And they were literally standing five yards in front of us in their seats, just turned around with their phones out, filming us. And I'm like, we catch one of these in the phone.

forehead like a deck he did on Sunday. This is going to be a problem. But we both hit very nice shots. He got the better of me. He won 100 bucks off of me. But it was cool, man. That Saturday, you know how much I look forward to being down there on the T-box with Amanda. And now we brought in Johnson where we just, you get to get a little loose and have a little fun. You know, Nance and I were going back and forth with it. One of my favorite days of the year. Oh, it's one of the best. Also, tell me of you think this too, because I didn't spend all my time on 16 on Saturday, but it felt like less outrageous with the booing.

There wasn't as many like close, I didn't see any that were like sniffing hole in ones, really. It felt like a little less rambunctious than normal. Not that it was tame by any means, but wasn't as aggressive, I felt. Yeah, you know, it's just that whole location, we saw Sam Ryder make the one, I get it. Davis Thompson did almost make it this past weekend.

It's just a tough one, man. We got a wind switch kind of right before we went on air and it started being downwind. And when that pins on that front left, the guys know that front bunkers are not very good. Anything left of the hole goes off the green there. And that's not a very easy up and down. And with it being downwind, I think a lot of them just play safe, especially like in our TV window with CBS, like we're getting the leaders. And they're not going to make some dumb mistake they're trying to take on this whole location. Hopefully, you know, we've talked about this before, maybe some change coming to that green there at 16, maybe get a little funnel going to really get

some action on a Saturday, I think it would be just awesome to have that. I mean, you think of 16 at Augusta on Sunday with the whole location down left. I mean, when it lands, the patrons know, and they stand up and you start hearing the murmurs and the ooze and ahs and here it comes. I think something like that would be really cool at 16 at Phoenix. Yeah, I think that's in the works. I don't know what the time frame on that is too, but leading into it, I was like, for all the reasons you just said, I was like, why don't we just scoot that pen back like four paces? five paces to like where the ball is bouncing collect because they don't really

rip back especially when there's a little puff down. I was like this way they could all be scaring it. We'd see so many more because it's just it's so hard to get the ball to come back there. It's like you don't, and that's what we want on a Saturday at there is like we want to see one. We don't want a ton of them. Like we're not going to ever see a ton of them.

But like one a year would be incredible. I agree with you. Yeah. I mean, still it's 128 yards, but it's eight on and three from the left. normally, I think, with the cover, they only got like six paces there. Like I said, you just don't want to make a mistake. You move that back to maybe 12 on and three from the left.

Yeah. Maybe we have some more action there. But all in all, man, awesome week. Thunderbirds did a great job. The bird's nest was fantastic. We said we weren't going to go every night. That was a lie. And just kept it rolling right into a rather boring Super Bowl, in my opinion.

I mean, the best part of most action of Super Bowl was a streaker. And that thing was a snoo. Just feel, go, feel, go, feel, feel, go, pay, It's never, dude, they had like, they had five first downs through three quarters and it only crossed the 50 twice or something. That was a, that was a beating. Made me even more sad that Bo Nix broke his ankle and that we didn't have a chance to at least square off with Seattle. Crushing. Crushing blow.

Tough one. All right. Before we start, guest, I mentioned we're at AT&T Pebble Beach. This is a fun week out here. Got some celebs to end up. Travis Kelsey is playing for the second week in a row out here, Alex Smith. By the way, Kashmir Keith, our guy. Nobody finds their way into the celebrity pairings more than Kashmir.

Cashmere normally plays with Josh Allen here. This year, Travis Kelsey just somehow. Oh, imagine that. I actually walked in on Wednesday during the Celebrity Pro, I'm down here. I walked in after we came back from radio and some other stuff, walked back in. The group on the tee just happened to be Travis Kelsey as he's teeing off. He takes the mic, riles up the crowd. The wind's kind of blowing, actually, at that point.

And he hit a ball that was in the air for about 12 seconds. It was the highest shot I've ever seen hit on that hole, and it lands like four feet from the hole. I think you had the best shot of the day by anyone. The place erupted. I was like, of course. Of course. The man's running right now.

He's running. It won't be a cruel summer for Travis Kelsey. Oh, nice. I see what you did. That's good. All right. Well, Sleys, time to get on the board here. This week, I'm going with a guy who grew up,

basically on the golf course. Parents had a house right over here on the 16th hole at Pebble Beach. He knows this place. Well, he's finished second here before. I'm going Maverick McNeely. He's been playing some great golf. top 10 at plus 280. I like that, but a lot.

I think he'll be fairly popular, too, for all the reasons you just noted, but he's playing good. Playing some good, good golf right now. Bad Sunday at Phoenix, otherwise would have been right there. I'm going to go with another one that's going to be extremely popular this week.

Last time he was out, you could say probably played the best golf he's ever played in his life, one going away, and then you can get him at plus 280 for a top 10. I'll take my odds with Justin Rose. If he doesn't do it, I'll feel just fine about it. Yeah, I have a feeling I figure you're going to one and done league out there, that's going to probably be the most popular pick.

Coming off that performance, he's won here before. Great golf course for him. He loves this place. Wouldn't be one surprise. Keep your eye on Jason Day around here, too. His record is silly. Speaking of houses on property growing up there, why are you not at the Nance residence this week? There's plenty of room. I know. Well, we got to discuss that.

I need, I got to go over there and get on the par three in his house so I can get my name on the rock of fame over there for all the hole and ones that have been made it. I haven't been able to hit a shot there yet, so I think it's time. But, I mean, you know, I'm slumming it over here at the lodge. I know. It's okay. I'll get through it.

It would have to be later in the week. Isn't it blowing 100 miles an hour right now? My room, Slias, is on 18, and you can't really see it too far out there, and I think it's blowing 60. Yeah. I heard there's going to be some nasty stuff. But out by Thursday, right? Yeah, so Thursday and Friday look great.

Saturday looks pretty good. Sunday. It could get a little dicey. 15 to 25 mile an hour winds with some rain. Actually, that'd be fun. They kind of get after Pellle a little bit when it's perfect out there, but they have a little good and a little bad.

It's fun to watch that place when it's whipping like that. Yeah, it's going to be a great week out here. One of my favorite weeks of the year. Let's get to our guest. He's coming back. We've had him on Subpar before. Love talking to this guy.

Just an incredible golf IQ, major champion. Jeff Ogilvieh joins us on Subpar. All right, we got a sweet swinger of the golf club. up with us today, eight-time PGA tour winner, including the 2006 U.S. Open. He's the captain of the international team for this year's President's Cup at Medina, which, coincidentally, he just helped renovate with his design team at OCM. Jeff Ogilvy in the House.

How are we, buddy? I'm good. Wow. Are you ready to hear about that four million times leading up to the President's Cup? How you helped renovate it? Inside of trading. Oh, yeah. They got a huge advantage.

Do you think it's fair? It's perfectly fair. I mean... Kidding. this could be the difference though this could get the internationals that win they've been trying really hard for hopefully hopefully any advantage we can get how'd you like how it turned out the medina project yeah the members like it so like that's really our job is to make the members happy um what did you like do what'd you change from what everything really um well the first 12

holes are the same holes they're just new versions of the same hole so they're in the same place, but the last six holes was kind of a big reroute. Oh, wow. Because one of the, when they came to us and they said, they thought they had the hardest course in America for a while and then, well, not the hardest course, but a really challenging test. The members found it really hard. It was long.

It was narrow, long, rough. Lots of trees. And the BMW went there and JT shot 26. 25, I think. 25. Yeah. And that sort of deflated them a little bit. think. But they'd done number one, so there's three courses there, Madonna one, two and three. And they'd done number one, they'd done number two in the last decade. And I think they'd been

practicing sort of going through the process, if you like, because it's quite a big process getting 1,200 members on board and picking an architect and sort of going through plans and ending up with what you want. So they were well-schooled in renovating their course. And they came to us and said, look, the shot against it is really hard for the member, but it's pretty easy for the pros and there's three par threes that were all kind of the same. I don't know if you guys ever played there. I haven't played it.

I was just going to ask like 17 was like the one over the water. Got all the glare in the right cup. Rosie hold that big part of that. Yeah. But 2.13 and 17 were very similar. Straight across. There's a great lake. So it's a massive property.

I mean, just number three is on 300 plus acres. So it's expansive. And there's this great lake. lake and three of the holes they just went straight across the hazard and they were five irons 200 yard holes which is a nightmare for the average player but not a problem for the pro so one of their things was can we fix that so two and we got two still the same hole but 13 and 17 we got rid of both of those holes and sort of rerouted the last five six holes and it was sort of a bit of a hint at some old stuff like that we found in the

history of Medina from sort of 80, 100 years ago, and there was some completely new stuff. So we think it turned out pretty good. So when you're, you're getting ready to redo this thing, and you're going to change the last six holes of a rather famous golf course. Do you go to the people at Medina and say, all right, this is what we're doing? Or when they hire you, is it like, this is up to you. You get to do what you want with it. Yeah, it's a bit of both. I mean, they give us all the information and like the brief, if you like, about what they're looking for. And it's funny because we presented, this was COVID and we were presenting from Australia because we were stuck in Australia.

We were doing it on Zoom meetings. And we said, all right, well, this week we'll do the first six holes and then we'll do the second six holes. We did three weeks in a row, six, six, six, and six. And we did the first six. And they're like, oh, that looks kind of cool. And then we did the second six, like seven through 12. And they were a bit underwhelmed because they're like,

oh, we thought you guys were going to take a bigger swing at this. You know, so we said, okay. And we gave them a little bit of a sneak peek at what they were going to see the next week, which is like we can totally rerouting your last six holes, and they got pretty excited. And we sort of showed them the general, and apparently straight after the meeting, they all went out in the golf course

to try to visualize where the holes were going to be. No, it went really well. So, yeah, they gave us like a full swing, which is scary when it's a course that's historic and as famous is that. I mean, it's had everything. I think when it's had the President's Cup, it's going to be the only course in the world

that's had a Riter Cup, a U.S. Open and USPGA. It's had a bunch of other stuff too. Like it's a pretty cool play. You played good at the PGA there, right? Yeah. You're in contention all week. 2006 one, yeah. I played with Tiger and Filth.

That was the biggest pair of I ever had. Oh, yeah. Tiger and Phil first two days, which was nuts because they'd never, at least at the time they told us, they'd never played together on a major Thursday, Friday. So I was, I had the best thing now to watch that show. Were they just chumming it up,

telling jokes to each other the whole time? One was walking down the right, one was walking down the left. Where'd you walk? I just listened. It was. great fun. But I played decent. I finished top 10. Yeah. It was, yeah, it was a good tournament. When you get a course like that, I mean, really any course, but one that hosts big stuff,

like you're talking about, it's got to be like, hey, we wanted to be enjoyable for our members. It could be 18 handicaps, but also let's make sure that like the top players in the world are challenged. That's got to be way tougher than going into just like, hey, the members want to redo their course. Yeah, I mean, look, it's easy to make it tough for members. Yeah. Golf is tough for that. Five arms over water. Yeah. And it's not that hard to make it tough for the average, for professionals. I mean, you just make it really narrow and really long and sloppy greens. But the challenge is to make it easier for the member and harder for the pro.

Yeah. But the best causes do it. I mean, if you look at the top 50 in the world, outside of Pine Valley, which is pretty tough course for an average player, well, for all players, really. That's, yeah. Most of them are generally playable for the average guy. You know, there's no force carriers. You can run the ball up.

The short grass around a lot of the greens. And short grass is a great leveler because the average guy. because the average guy can put, but the tour player doesn't like chipping off short grass. Generally, they'd much rather long rough. Wide fareways, generally the best sort of the courses that do that. So it's, that's the funest part of the job is to try to make the average club 15 handicapper

be able to break his handicap, but also challenge Justin Thomas and make it harder for Shimchut 2400. So I don't know if we've done that. It feels like we've done that. But yeah, you've got to do it with width and short grass and strategic hazards that are sort of out of play for the average guy, but they're now in play for the tour player. Yeah.

Where are you at the stance as far as, because everyone's like, oh, these guys just hit it so far with technology and how it's gone, how far it's going right now. And then I just, you and I were talking about the Australian Open that was at Royal Melbourne, which on TV, I mean, that place is as good as it gets, and it's not 8,000 yards long. But now that you're designing a golf course,

and especially a place like Medina, Do you feel like you have to make it crazy long like that? Or do you think golf courses that are like 7,200, 7,300 for the professionals can still be challenging? Yeah, it depends on the course. I mean, Madonna can be stretched. I mean, it can be pretty long. I mean, there's some sort of alternate teas that you could, I don't know, you could probably get at 8,000. I don't know exactly how long it can get.

It can get pretty long. But it just has to be firm. I mean, Royal Melbourne, we played in December. There's not a lot of drivers. The only negative to Royal Melbourne probably is that we didn't know and get to see Rory and Scotty and that hit drivers. because there's not many drivers, but the right position in 2026

is that was the right position in 1976. Like the right position is the right position. It's a different club you're hitting it to it. But it's the only place you can attack the pin is that position because if you're out of position, the greens are firm, the slopes will throw your ball away from the hole. And I think you can,

you don't need yardage to make it hard. I actually think that chasing yardage in golf courses, chasing distance in golf courses has made us all want to hit the ball further. I think if the tour had been around places like Royal Melbourne for the last 20 years, no people wouldn't hit it as far as they do now because you don't need to. You need to be good at shaping the ball. You need to spin the ball and you need to strategically sort of maneuver around the golf course.

It's not just how far. I'll just hit it as far as I can and I'll work it out then. It's actually, you've got to make some decisions. There are very few places in the professional game where like you hear player and caddy on the T of a par four and be like, all right, we need to hit this one down the right side or we need to hit this one down the left. Harbor Town somewhat just because of the trees that overhang the greens and everything. But for the most part, it's just let's just send this thing.

Yeah, for sure. I mean, you see that the Masters a little bit. I mean, they're very wide fairways and there's clearly a correct side and an incorrect side, depending on where the pin is. That course is very long, too. I mean, it sort of does both. But there's, you know, you see guys on their layup on 13 of the Masters thinking, wow, do I want to lay it up left and close to the water?

Do I want to look right and have that angle? It's like, that is interesting. and it nullifies, well, it rewards distance, but it's proportionate. Like, it's not like if you can't compete if you don't hit it far, you know, but if you're better at something else, then you can catch up with the lack of distance you've got. And I think there's ways of doing it that are interesting, but the only way to do it generally is it has to be firm. It has to matter where you're coming from, like angle-wise.

Yes, and so for all you... 15-2 at Augusta, same when you got to lay up on that one? You see people lay it up in way different places. I like to blast it way down by the waters and leave it back, left, right? Yeah, I mean, the angle's better from the right, but I always liked it, but your ball's on a crazy downslate, whereas if you lay it up way left, you're at least you're on, the angle gets worse, but you're on a flat lie. So it's sort of an interesting choice, right?

Do I want a good angle in a bad stance or do I want a good stance in a bad angle? Yeah, that's the choice for the player. Off a downslope? I mean, that's one of the most fun shots, everything's in play with that one, even though it's just a short wedge. The left pin is just horrible with the way. edge, yeah, that's just a tough show. I tell everybody, because you can't tell on TV,

like with how severe the downslope is, and it's above your feet, like, in your mind, you're like, okay, let's just not hit this fat. So you get on top of a little bit, deloft it, boom, long left, because obviously there's water there. You're not going to be short.

And with that left pin, I mean, oh, my God. That's the hardest wage in the world, there's the hardest shot in the world that we play in tournaments. That's incredible. Unless you lay up on 10 at Riviera. That shot sucks, too. That's a tricky one.

That's a tough grand to hit from anyway. Is that one just two? didn't they soft did they soften it or no they've tried yeah a little bit but I mean there's very few guys that lay up like when I played I was obviously one of them especially to like the right pins and you have 75 yards just like dear god just get this somewhere on the green that green I think is the bunker splash yeah slash slash from the rise made it so severe that laying it up is not the play anymore at least not how we play it with the firm green in the tournament yeah well when you can't get it to the front bunker

that little 25 yard pitch over there's really not ideal either no You grew up next to Royal Melbourne and it's considered one of the best in the world but being there, we'll probably never have another person who knows design as well as you do on this pod. What are your like top architecture golf? They're not your favorite course to play but the ones you look at

like that's one of the best. Royal Melbourne's got to be up there, I'd assume. Royal Melbourne's great because it does what you said like we were talking about it. It's pretty doable for the average player but it's really hard for us. Especially when it's when the pins are tough

it wasn't crazy underpar that won the Australian Open. The weather was decent. You really have to, if you miss it in the wrong spot, you've got, you just keep magnify. It's a bit like the masters. It's like you just magnify your error. Every time you make an error, you've just got more trouble trying to get back on track.

Royal Melbourne does that in a really subtle way, and it catches up with you. So that's a great cause. I mean, look, I love PV. I think Pine Valley is just an incredible golf experience, but it's probably too hard for the average guy. A lot of force, like, dreams you've got to fly it on.

Yeah, it's a big player's golf course. You can't bounce things up a whole lot. It's probably the best golf course in the world for a great player, but that probably disqualifies it in some ways from being the best course in the world because you kind of want everyone to play it. I love the old course. I mean, I could play the old course every day. I think that gets better every time you go around.

You sort of learn something more, and it's not, it's shaped by nature and the way people played the game rather than shaped by a person. if that makes sense. You can play it conservative all day and you'll hit 16, 17, 17, and greenger regulation.

No one can hit 17 and 2, but you'll hit most greenger regulation, but you'll have 50 footers all day. And then you'll get braver and braver and you'll start taking on the bunkers and the out of bounds, and then you'll start making birdies and you think this place is pretty simple,

but then you'll get burnt and you hit in a bunker and you'll make a triple, and then you go back to being conservative again, and you see to go these cycles there that it rewards, like the quality, the higher the quality your shot, the proportionate, that's how much easier your neck shot is. How much risky take that.

That place does it the better than anywhere. What other projects we got going right now? I don't know how much we can talk about. I mean, we finished the fall line in Georgia a couple years ago. Yeah, I couldn't remember the name. I have heard nothing but just phenomenal things about the fall line. That's pretty cool. Yeah.

It's an amazing property. They are great clients, owners who are really sort of. excited to do something really cool. Infinite sand. What part of the state is that? It's not far from Columbus. Not far from Columbus and Macon, kind of. Not far.

It's about an hour of south of Macon. Okay. There's not much there. There's a golf course there. There's two golf courses there. Is that like close to a hoopie? Is it like, I don't actually even know where that is. Okay.

Yeah, but I know that like landscape. Yeah. So the fall line is, a geographical sort of name for this, I guess Georgia at some point, millions of years ago was beachfront at some point. So it's all sand. And it goes all the way across Georgia and a hoopie's on that same belt of sand. So the fall line is the geographical term for that. So that was the name of it. It's, yes, thousands of acres and we did a course. They start off wanting to do one and then they wanted to do two and then there was a par three course as well.

like a short course. One sort of in the spirit of the Heathland courses of London, the East Coast there is so it's like Sunningdale, Swinley Forest, and Georgia's Hill sort of in that spirit. That Harry Colt sort of, there's some great vegetation there that kind of feels like the heather there and there's some great pine trees. And then the west course there is in the spirit of the sand belt.

So it's big, wild, sandy bunkers. That's sweet. I've heard good things about this place. Yeah, Gary Williams told me he's played it. said it's unbelievable. And then Zach Gallant actually had a fall-lined shirt on. Oh, really? The other day, they were playing Atlanta, had a day off. Him and Merrill Kelly jumped on a bird, went down, played,

and flew back, and they just raved about it. Yeah, it's pretty cool. It was a garage job. I just didn't get them in trouble, by the way, with the diving back. I think those two are probably all right. Hey, Zach, you want to go play? Yeah, you can do whatever you want. What do you got, President's Cup captaincy-wise?

I mean, it's year of. Now does it start ramping up? You've got to start clocking in and paying attention to everybody? Yeah, I mean, look, we've started. a while ago. I went to Ponavidra sort of October 24 to sort of get my head around it, you know,

talk to that point. It was Jay and every department because the PGA tour puts the tournament on so they've got their arm of the tournament that puts it on and they can sort of tell me how the course can be routed and where they're going to build all their stuff. And then there's all the other departments like the PGA2 has sort of, there's a lot of silos in that building and like everyone sort of got there they got the marketing side and then there's

the legal side and there's the organizational side the sponsorship side so like i sort of met them all and started getting my head around it and i got a sort of a timeline of like you've got to decide the clothing by then you've got to pick the what the team cabin looks like by x and you've got to have your team your assistant captains picked by this and you tell us how you want the selection process to be we probably wanted to end at eastlake Lake. Yeah, I just sort of found the timeline and I've just been chipping away on it ever since. I mean, we had a visit, Brandt and I, we had a captain's visit about just after Rider Cup last year in October, sort of launches the whole President's Cup year and walked around property and sort of worked out where everything's going to be

because, you know, those things are logistical puzzles to put in place. And they showed us where our cabin's going to be and where the first T is going to be because they're going to play off the fifth, hole, Medina's fifth hole. They're going to play five through four in order. Okay. Because they often change it because they want to, it's about the match play and where they think matches are going to finish and where they want to have all their big corporate stuff. Absolutely. They don't want the, the big stuff on like 12 through 16 because that's where most matches

finish. And they want people who pay the big tickets to get to the, to get to where they bought their tickets, you know. So we tee off on five. So we worked out there. and where the range is going to be and all that. And talking with the clothing people. And so that's all the logistics. And then I've just been trying to put together. I was a pretty interested observer of the Ryder Cup and everything Right of Cup because that's a pretty similar event.

You should tell your team to put like the Europeans. Yeah. Just do that. Whatever like drugs they were taking or like drinks they were having is like they did the right thing. So obviously Luke, Luke and the whole European team is pretty inspirational the way they do it. Obviously you hear all the stories about the bed sheets and Sevy on the inside of the shirt and all that. But I just think there's such a magic to the European team in general.

The European golfers just seem to live and breathe and are born to like the Ryder Cup's almost number one on their goal list before anything individual. you know and it's like we've got to get our team to that point you know because we can all put together a team of champions on there but you've got to create a champion team out of that team and champion you've got to get more out of the um the sum of your parts you know and europe seems to do that really well i think you should put pictures of knob below everywhere i think that would do it you think well that's a good international wine it was scared the shit out of the american team it's a good international wine yeah so have you i'm sorry would would you like talk to luke prior to this? Are you close enough to Luke to call him and pick his brain?

I'm like, hey, dude, I don't need the secret sauce, but give me some tips. I haven't talked to him specifically since. I sort of left him alone last year a little bit. We had a bit of a chat at the Masters last year, I think. But he was in the buildup to the right of cup. I'm definitely going to try to circle by him. I've talked to a bunch of guys who are on his team and who are close. We've got some other guys out there.

We're trying to learn everything we can from what they do. But like I said, I think there's such a, I mean, you go play the European tour for a month, you get why they're good at it. You know, they're just such a collective and they're all in it together and they all travel together and they all stay in the same hotels and that's a tough thing to match. You know, we don't have that. We all play on the PGA tour. We're all from somewhere else, which is great because we all, we've developing a pretty good

identity with this shield that Ernie brought us and the guys are really, really into it and the chat group goes strong and everyone's really motivated. But I think a lot of the magic from Europe, you go back to Sevy. No disrespect to Luke. I think Luke does an unbelievable job. And every captain for that team does a great job. They've got such a love for that event. I think part of our job as captains is to create more of that every time.

If I can leave the international team loving the President's Cup even more than they do now, like I think that's going to be success. So that's part of my aim. I think they're really, I don't know. if they're important events, but they're amazing to play. They're very special. I mean, every, every President's Cup I've been involved in, all the ones I played and all the ones I've been an assistant are my favorite weeks as a professional by a long way. Like, they're special tournaments. So I think it's the leadership of these teams is, uh,

sort of their responsibility is to, to give that experience to the players who come, you know. Do you think, obviously, you play in a number, number of them? You think, you'll be more nervous as a player or as a captain? A captain for sure, I think. I mean, playing is tough. Like the first day is tough, but then when you get into the round, you sort of, it's golf again, right?

I mean, there's definitely, it feels like you're going up the last hole in a golf tournament every hole. Yeah. It's kind of what it feels like. You played Walker Cup, similar sort of deal, just with lots more people watching, you know? But captain, you're out of control.

It's never, it's not that easy when you're out of control. I mean, you can, You can try to maximize your pairings and get everyone out in the right order. And, you know, you can go to your data and your personality stuff and your profiles and sort of build the team up as much as you want. But once they get on the first day, it's their deal, right? You're just a spectator. And being a spectator is always harder than, I mean, I always have a harder time

watching a friend have a put to win a tournament than I did actually having it to win the tournament. Like, it's always scary at a watch, you know, because you're out of control. So I'm sure it'll be pretty nerve-wracking, but I'm pretty excited. Do you have like a most memorable match that you played in when you think back to all your President's Cups? Not really. I mean, I played with, in San Francisco, I played with Ishikawa when he was 17 or 18. Yeah. And he like won a bunch of stuff in Japan and he found his way into our team.

And I played with him first day and he hit the first T shot and he had the first T shot and he just popped up the middle. I was just it was really, he was like a kid. He was 17, right? Yeah. No, it was unbelievable. It was an amazing thing to see him, 17, just stand up there. Greg Norman's the captain. I mean, it's like it's a big deal and just pipe it up the first hole.

I mean, the smile on his face. It was great. So it's those experience. It's those rather than the big putts and the, I hold a bunch shot at Royal Melbourne, which was fun. From over the back of seven. That was a good one. I don't know. Like, they're all exciting.

I mean, look, we didn't get close to winning one that I was in. So I guess there's a flat feeling when you leave. but Sunday night was always fun. Hell yeah. Speaking to Harding Park, though, just real quick. Yeah, yeah. It was also side of probably the most aggressive incredible club twirl of all time by Tiger Woods.

Oh, my God, it spun around 100 times. Yeah. It started out on the range after my chunks. That was such a cool shot, though. I mean, to be that into it, as soon as you make contact on a forearm or whatever it was, he knows it's stiff, like that was proper. Yeah, that was when Tiger,

Tiger in those events, I mean, his record probably individually isn't as good as people might have expected. But when he was required, he stood up and he showed you that he was Target. Good news, bad news for you as the President's Cup, you just lost Ben-on, who went over to live. Good news, great news. Siwu remains the glue, the glue guy. I need you to-

It's got to be the glue guy, don't you think? I just need you to just guarantee us no matter what. I don't care if he misses 14 cuts, in a row coming into it. He's going to be on the team. Oh, I can't make it a guarantee. Five matches. No, Jeff Ogden will be just guaranteed see who we will be on the team. He's going to have to be a long way down the list because he is gold dust for us, for sure.

He's got to be one of the best on the group tax. He is. There's players who get better in these things and there's players who don't, you know. He always gets better in these things. He loves that moment. He loves that state. His best staff has been in the President's Cups. I mean, yeah, you find a way to get guys like that in your team. You need a lot of stimulants. that team room just as a heads up.

He likes to be coffee. I love the way he operates. I mean, he shushed the crowd at Quail Hollow. He did the night night last week where the match wasn't even over. He slept them and then lost. He's just, he's the greatest. You have any favorite like Siwu stories? Maybe from being in the locker room because I mean, he's just so funny.

He's very entertaining. I mean, the start on the golf course, when he beat, he beat Justin Thomas, the Quail Hollow and JT was playing good. Around a golf course. It's a JT golf course. And JT had been their best play. all week, the US team, and Sioux just, that's when he shushed him on 18, which was 15. 15 at the time, yeah.

That was, and he ended up beating him on the last minute. And I think J.T. took his head up and go, yeah, you were just better than me today. Like, it was just, he was so, he's so good in that moment. I missed that chip, the shush, the go to sleep. It was awesome. 16 last time. But yeah, he's just, he's not the mascot. But, like, we just, everyone feels better when Siou was out there playing for you.

Because you just know he's going to give it everything. And the craziness that can come in an individual tournament just doesn't really come in this team event. Like it's all in. Like he's the best. He's just a positive energy guy. You just is a guy you want to be around. And it's good golf, by the way,

it's like incredibly, incredibly good. But in the like experience either as a player or, you know, the locker rooms you've been, who do you think is the best like international locker room guy? You've been around. It's tougher when everybody's from different places, I feel like.

I mean, it's always been our challenge to bring like, you know, Korea, Japan, Australia, South Africa, New Zealand, Canada, like to the same sort of to feel like one unit. And I think we've done a really good job. Ernie's like Shield thing for us has been great. We've got sort of one symbol to play on them, not just a bunch of flags. That's been great. I mean, look, Scotty's amazing. I mean, when Adam stands up, everybody listens. You know, I mean, why wouldn't you? The guys, if he plays this one, I think it's 12. This will be his 12th. I mean, that's insane. I mean, that's a career of being in the

President's Cup your whole career. I mean, that's 25 years. 25 years of being one of the best. Yeah, no, it's crazy. So when he stands up, everybody listens, you know. Ernie was a great presence. You know, some guys don't talk. You know, there was the VJs and the Gousins who were incredible teammates, but they didn't chirp up too much. Then you got Ernie. When he talked, we all listened, you know, when Adam stands up, everybody listens. But there's a few in there. Sometimes it's the young guy in the team who motivates everyone. You never really know, like, the energy of the week. there's always one or two guys

who seem to be more fired up about it than others. Everyone has their moments. When Sung Jay dances, everyone watches. Yeah, the gang of style. We've run him through that. We've probably run him through that too many times. I think he loves it.

Secretly, maybe. That's been good fun. Yeah, we have a good time. So you got that coming up, President's Cup. You're still playing, though. How many are you expecting to get in this year? And what's your kind of plan? You and I played the other day and, like, you're ready to go when the Champions Tour comes

around, which you got like a little over a year? Yeah, I got a year and a half. I'm kind of looking at that. I'll do this President's Cup and I'm excited about the process and then we'll see Champions Tour, we'll be about nine months after that. So we'll see how that goes. This year, I don't know. I mean, I require invites and access to tournaments is sort of, there's been a lot of hot

hot button topics on tour in the last two or three years, but access to tournaments is a big one. I don't really want to be taking too many people's spots if they want to be in it. I mean, I've been back there before and if I was missing out for an old 48-year-old golfer, was getting in them. But that being said, I'm going to ask for invites everywhere. Hopefully I'll get a few. I'd like to get out there with the boys and like just have dinner with the guys and play some practice rounds. And I think it would be really good for the team. And I think Luke being out there with his guys was pretty valuable for him. And Kagan clearly out there, it helps the team be more of it, just to have more chemistry.

I think by the time you get to the tournament. So I'll try, I mean, like, I'm going to ask everywhere. I'm going to try to get in a few. I mean, you know some thunderbirds, right? Yeah, a little poor. We'll talk offline, you know what I mean? Everything for sure. Like, I still love playing.

I mean, I still wish I played probably not 25 a year, but I'd love to play 15 or 16. But like the world, I stepped away, so the world moves on without you and that's fine. You know, if I get in a few, that's great. And otherwise I'll be 50 before I know it, I'm sure. What's your opinion on kind of the direction? direction the PGA tour is headed right now.

I mean, we've got the nine signature events. I mean, the schedule's crazy for these guys. I mean, there's going to be three weeks at a time. At one point in schedule three weeks, so I think guys won't get in unless they're in the signature events. I think a lot's going to change in 2027, but just going into this year and then possibly what's going to change in the future. What's your opinion of everything?

Well, I mean, it's been an interesting period. I don't really have too many strong opinions. I think golf as a sport professionally sort of has sort of fallen into the trap of thinking that the player is the product rather than the tournaments. I think the tournaments are the real product. Tournaments and the TV broadcast of the tournaments. If you look at the best tournaments, it's not about money and they don't chase field. It's just they're just great tournaments. Speaking of the Phoenix Open, I mean, it's just an incredible event in general.

the masters, you know, the majors, it's not really about field, it's just their great events, you know, and I'd love to see, I don't know, I mean, there's talk, there's all these rumors about that the two are getting shorter, a bit more condensed, like sort of scarcity is the value. That seems to be the line that's coming out from the top.

That's probably good. I mean, it'd be nice to give the rest of the room, the rest of the world, a bit of room to breathe on the same. schedule a little bit, maybe give guys a bit of a rest if they don't want to play for nine months just to keep their job. I don't know. I think we're clearly in a transition phase.

I think access is a bit challenging right now. I think there's probably too many short fields. I'd probably couldn't, I'd have a hard time not arguing with you if you told me 70 was better than 120 or 130. I think a cut is part of professional golf. And I think the lopsided nature of you give guys are corned ferry card or you get guys out of Q school, you get young guys coming on tour. It's like, yeah, you've got your tour card, but I mean, it's a diet tour card.

Like, you're playing in a different tour than the top 50 guys. I think it was a great period when we had every tournament was kind of the same points, except for the majors. I thought that was really great. If you won the Nelson, that was the same as winning Phoenix or was the same as winning Memorial. It's like winning on tour is really hard. you know for a guy to get four more points like four times the points for winning one rather than the other I don't think it's four times the achievement you know but it's a transition phase

clearly the bleeding had to be stopped you know and it worked you know and it's it sounds like it's going to look pretty different next year um but look at the end of the day if you're a good enough player you're going to make it it seems like I think um it seems to be that the window the doorways to getting into the tour are getting smaller and smaller. Absolutely. The good players seem to be getting through, but I would like to see it a bit more democratic, you know, meritocracy. The only thing I would disagree with you a little bit, not disagree with you,

just my opinion, I do like having like some bigger events, like signature events, but let everyone in them. Like give, don't cut this thing to 70, like 120, 132. Like, let these guys off the corn fairy get in a mix. And if they win a memorial, like that, that's a, life changer for these guys, but you got to give them a chance to tee it up in them. Yeah, for sure. I just, I would like to see the tournaments sort of compete against the other tournaments to be better, you know, I'd like to see the American Express try to be better than

Tori, and Tori tried to better be Phoenix, and Genesis tried, the LA try to be better than Phoenix, and like, if you have a situation where tournaments are competing, I mean, the players are going to win, everyone's going to benefit, you know, I think, uh, when you just, um, when you just, you just, say, right, you guys are going to be the big ones and you guys are going to be the small ones, I don't know, like I'd rather see, the Masters is the Masters is because they've done an amazing job for a hundred years, you know, I'd like to, Phoenix is a great tournament because they do, it's an unbelievable organisation that there's a lot of people who put a lot of time and a lot of effort in making that, it's not just a tournament, I mean, it's just an event and it's just

in a massive event. And if you had to put in that sort of effort to sort of be better than all the other tournaments, then they would all be competing against each other. And then they would all fight to be special. There's always going to be special events. You know, people want to come to Phoenix because it's an amazing atmosphere. Memorial is a great event because it's a great course and you get treated so well and it feels special. But they've done a great job at making it feel special. I think you put a bit of competition in the tournaments and they all try to outdo each other. I think everybody's going to win. That was kind of like McCord's philosophy. I don't know if you talk to him about it, but like the ownership falls on the tournaments and then essentially it's like

what you said, let's make ours better than theirs, better than theirs. Like in theory you could have, in theory you could have 18 Phoenix opens out there. I think he said that. I don't really know what there was a lot of other shit going on in that conversation. I kind of got lost, but going into the conversation, I should say, that's what I thought he was like pointing to. He was like, look, that way you create, you know. And I think, I'll be way out of my lane here and like, I don't understand this at all. But I think it would be interesting to see the tournaments compete for individual broadcast rights, you know, individually. I mean, I don't know if that adds up to as much. But if you had to be better than last week and next week, because they all, because Amazon or Netflix

or CBS or whoever it was, we want that tournament because that tournament's always great on TV. Well, the next week's going to be have to improve their product. They have to get better because they want to do that. And I think there would be such competition between the tournaments that the beneficiaries would be the players and the spectators and the TV audience because everyone would be competing to be better than last week and next week. I think that I don't know, again, I'm way out of my lane and I don't understand how all that stuff works.

But competition is good. You know, I think we've we've chased this sugar hit with if you don't have a field, you don't have a tournament, you know, and we've just bought fields effectively with money, you know, and I don't think money is as exciting as, prestige and history and, you know. Yeah, I think you look like, I mean, one of the best golf courses on the PGA tour is Riviera. I mean, you can't argue with that.

The Genesis. It gets pretty good TV ratings, I'd say, but as far as, like, a tournament, as far as attendance for how great of a golf course it is and how great the field is, like, there's not that many people out there watching, in my opinion. Yeah, it doesn't feel like a small. Yeah, exactly. Which surprises me a little bit. It's a tough town.

to get around. Yeah, LA is, they got a lot of shit going on out there. Well, you're competing with so much other stuff, right? That's what I'm saying. They got so much stuff. It's hard to get their attention for anything, except the Lakers when they're good and, you know.

Yeah, no, it's interesting. We'll see. I think it feels like there's some interesting noises coming out of Padra, and the talk is that the next year is going to look very different from this year, and I'm sure it'll be an improvement. They're listening to all the players.

I'm pretty, Brian, I think, has been progressively sort of having meetings with every player on tour to sort of get his feel from the top all the way down on the bottom, which I think is important. And I'm sure it'll work itself out. It'll work itself out. It's a weird phase at the moment, but it'll work itself out. Look, I mean, it's a great time to be a great player, one of the best players in the world

right now. You know, and everyone's watching golf at the moment. The ratings are up. The golf is huge. Like the golf course design business is huge. Driving ranges are full. I mean, people are selling golf clubs. It's just a great time for golf.

Yeah, let's talk a little bit about Brian Rolap. And obviously this big decision he just made because this is a guy that came from the NFL, which is the greatest product on TV. And he's coming over here, and he's not scared to mix things up a little bit. Obviously, there was all this talk with suspensions and all this for the guys from Liv. And he comes in and says, not so fast. We can change this right now. I mean, I think, in my opinion, he's like, my job is to put the best product out there

and bringing a guy like Brooks Kepka back makes the product better. What was your thought when they announced that he was reinstated so fast? Yeah, I was interested to see how they were going to do that. I think it was, I mean, there's give and take, and it feels like about the right way.

I completely agree with you that if you've got a chance to get Brooks Kepka back on your tour, you get him back. The price that Brooks has to pay for that, I guess, was the debate in my head. Look, I'm not. a fully active player in the prime of my career, so I'm sort of a bit removed from it. So I'm probably more product-based than golfer-based at the moment.

But I think it was about right. I think you found a way you had to get him back, you know. I don't know if there is no punishment that fits the crime. You know, and it's nobody wins if Brooks has never allowed back. Yeah. Like that doesn't work. That's what I said. Brooks sitting out of year.

I was like, that sucks for everyone. Yeah. And if you make him pay $80 million, like he's not coming back. You know what I mean? Same with the other guys. It was kind of like he pays some money, goes to charity, then he's going to miss out on this equity, which in theory could be worth a ton of money.

And it's like, you know, he's going to grow the equity for the other players. It's kind of like I felt like everyone's equity, right? Exactly. He's helping while not participating in it. So that's a punishment. I felt like it was kind of like you appease the players with the penalty, but yet you get one of the best player or you get a big name player back. I think they walked that sort of line, that balance pretty well.

You know, there'll be some grumps. I'm sure at certain areas of the money list of places in the locker room, there'll be some grumpy guys. Most of the top guys seem to be pretty happy with it. I mean, if I throw myself back 20 years and I was in that position, I'd want to play against Brooks. I mean, he's still, since Nick Faldo and Tiger, I mean, he's one more majors as well, Phil,

but he's one of the best 20 players of all time. I mean, like, major-wise, if you're going to base him on majors, that's a pretty important player. he's just sitting on the sidelines. I mean, I'd find a way to get him on. So, like, I think the punishment, not being able to get invited into signatures, I think was appropriate, you know? Like, if he finds his way in, fair play, right?

Taking people, and he's not taking a spot in the field. That's a huge one, too. By the way, he's going to help some guys because... Two more guys are getting in. Yes, because they're going to make it where... Obviously, he's not going to play by himself. He's going to... He'll be in a big group, but, yeah, he's not...

They're going to make it where the fields are even. And so, effectively, most... tournaments, like two more guys are going to get in that weren't in. So all those guys should be thanking Brooks for this. Yeah, look, I mean, like, I'm a Brooks, as watching a golfer, I'm a Brooks fan and like a golf tournament. I'd love to see Brooks feeling, playing like Brooks used to play or can play coming down against Scottish Shepherd on the last nine hours.

I want to see that. Like, that's just entertainment to me. Like, and I hope that happens. And I'm sure Scotty hopes it happens, too. You know, I mean, like, it's. I think there was no perfect way to do it, but I think they did a, they walked the middle line pretty well.

He's going to help a lot of tournaments too. Like he just committed to the cognizant. He's going to go play a bunch of places. I assume that he rarely played, if ever on the PJ tour, since he's not getting serious. Well, he has to play 15 events. He has to play 15.

And I hope he understands his responsibility is to just go play. Like they've given, they've thrown you this, there's a little bit of a bone. They've thrown you on the, they've whacked you a little bit, but they've thrown you a bone.

Go play everywhere. Go play places you. didn't used to go play. Moline wants to see Brooks Kepka. You know, Tampa wants to see Brooks Kepka play golf. I mean, I don't know how many times he's been in these places, but it's going to be New Orleans. Go play New Orleans.

You know, like it's, these are tournaments. You should be his partner. Oh, yeah. I played with books in New Orleans a few years ago. He played with his brother. Yeah. Yeah. No, like I hope he does.

I hope he goes and plays everywhere. I hope he's excited to play golf again. I assume he probably is. you know it's a new opportunity it's a new day and brooks playing well is he's he's as good a player as i've ever played with you know i mean i'll probably pretend in that category but he's in it like he's unbelievable absolutely we're gonna find out quick another guy that's playing pretty well scotty sheffler and like in my opinion i've always thought you have one of the highest golf golf iqs there is and you played in the tiger i mean you played with the best the best we just mentioned

medina you being grouped with phil and tiger he's got 14 straight top eights right now on the pGA tour. Like, the guy just doesn't play bad. I mean, led the scoring average by almost a full shot this year, led scoring average in first, second, third, and fourth rounds. Like, can you just put into perspective what this guy's done over the last couple of seasons? I mean, it's mind-blowing what he's doing. And I think it's really refreshing. He's not doing it with what the textbooks would tell you was a perfect-looking golf swing. I think he swings it great. And the more you watch it, the more you like watching it, because you kind of see how it works or why it works. he's just he's sort of an enlightened golfer you know i mean

he he keeps it so simple i mean did we ever think we would see a molded grip on tour you know what i mean we would have laughed off the range if you and i had done that he's like anal with that thing too every every warm up session when you actually think about it like he he gets his alignment right and he gets his grip right every morning and so he's starting in the same place every single day and the rest of the time he's just trying to hit it at the pin like he's not rotating his forearms or trying to download and put pressure on his right leg or anything.

He's just hitting the golf ball at the target and he seems to do that better than anyone I've ever seen. He's so, he's more target conscious than anyone since maybe peak Tiger. I mean, Tiger was very, he's practice. You could tell what shot he was going to hit just by his practice swing. He was so out there.

Scotty seems more out there. It doesn't seem to care how he's swinging it. He just cares where the ball goes. All of us care how we swing it, whether we say, oh, no, I don't care how I swing. We all do. We all are a little bit vain about how it looks. He doesn't care at all. He just wants the ball to go where he wants it to go so he can beat you.

And he hasn't missed a step yet. I mean, he cut his hand last year and everyone's like, oh, well, that's going to be that he's going to come back to Earth. He just got better. Yeah. I'm a massive Scottish shuffle fan. I mean, he's incredible. And it's so simple.

Like, I did a little bit of TV and you were doing TV at, Quala Hollow last year. He won that tournament playing pretty poorly for the most part until five holes to go on Saturday. And then he just put on a clinic. He ended up winning by six or seven or whatever he ended up winning by it.

And it was like, there were other players in the field who played better than that week. But he won by six or seven because that's what he does. He just, he hits the shots that matter well, which is what Tiger used to do. And he just, he keeps a ball in front of him

and he recognises the moment. This is the moment. I'm just going to be four under in the last five of the last five holes on tour, I'm going to do it. I mean, the last five holes that Saturday, I was walking with that group, and it was Max Homa,

and I can't remember who the third was, but it's blowing, it's starting to get a little, the greens are getting a little crusty. I mean, it's blowing crosswinds all over the place. The eagleed 14, birdied 15, birdied 16,

I think part 17, then birdied 18 out of a divot in the fairway. And, I mean, if you would have just seen the look on like Max in them's face, like what golf course is this guy playing right now? It went from just this whole home round to,

oh my God, this guy's just ridiculous. The thing is he doesn't hit. When Tiger was Tiger and Phil was Phil, they hit shots that no one else could hit. Exactly. Yeah. Scotty doesn't hit any shot that we can't hit.

100%. He just hits the good one every time. Like he just never hits a bad one. Or he does hit some bad ones, but his bad ones don't hurt him. And he, for the most part, just hits it where he's looking every single time. Like, he's such an attainable looking number one

because he doesn't hit a shot that you can't hit. And I think that drives other points. players crazy. Yeah. Yeah. And I think it makes it like almost more impressive. Like Tiger could do things. You're just like, I'll never do that.

I'll never hit that iron on out of the rough on six at Pebble Beach. You know, I never hit the irons out of the bunker at the Canadian. But like Scotty doesn't hit you by, yeah, in theory, I could do that. I think that's what makes it even. He doesn't have like a super power quote unquote like Tiger kind of had physically for a while. He just plays like the rest of his playing, having our good day. And he does it every day.

Every single day. Yeah. And his nose for the last few holes is really impressive. When it like when you have to have that moment. Yeah. he does it yeah the molded grip i gotta tell a funny story about that because he's had it forever i mean since he was a kid i remember him always having that on there and so gary woodland goes back to start working with randy smith again and he wants to put one on and so scotty's like all right this is

how you do it to make sure it's on square and everything all right so gary gets one so he gets it done and i see it in his bag and i go grab it and i grab the grip and i'm in the club face is so shut it's absolutely absurd and i'm like what the hell did you do it goes do not tell Scotty. Do not tell Scottie. I immediately took a picture. So, Scotty, he goes, I told him exactly how to do this. And I was like, only Gary could mess this up this way. I'm getting worse. This thing doesn't

work for shift. But it would be different for everyone, right? Like the grip, how you would put it on for you would be different for how I should put it on and how you should put it on. Like, you got, but I think the magic is that it's the same every day. Like it never, if you like it a little stronger, every single day, like because you grip drifts.

I would just do it. Scottie's doing. Yeah. It looks pretty neutral. Because you grip drifts, right? I mean, my grip drifts weak and I've got to keep trying to go that way. But some people's drift too strong and they're always drifting that way. For somebody who's a drifter like most of us, it's just you start every day in the same place. Like it's actually genius. It's so simple.

It's too obvious. We thought it was too simple. But like, no, he's worked it out. He's cracked the code. I tell him all the time, like just going to the range before the guys get going and everything. He is the only one that doesn't have the drama box, a.k.a. the track man, Thursday through. Sunday before his round. He literally just goes out there to warm up and hit shots. Everybody else is

paying attention to what's going on with all the numbers and everything. He's like, dude, I'm here to play golf. That's what Jack always said. The range wasn't to find your golf swing. It was to just find a little rhythm for the day and something simple and just go with it. That's what he does. Like, I hope he sets a trend there because the, what do you call it? Drama box. The drama box. I stole that from a man, Dean Takel with Calloway, but I like that term. Look, I think it's an amazing tool, but I don't understand what these guys are looking at every morning. Like, I don't, what are you looking at? Like, can't you just watch where the ball goes?

Oh, it's going a little bit to the right. You know, I'll aim a bit further left or whatever it is simple. You don't need a box to tell you it went right because you saw it went right. What's all that? I love that Scotty has pared it down to the simplest point. And I hope, usually everybody ends up copying the best players. I think hopefully it's a trend to get a few less of the most. on the range. But you say that,

but you're exactly right. I mean, these players, I mean, these are great players. And I mean, the second they make impact and get to their finish, they're looking at a computer screen, and the ball hadn't even landed yet. Yes. I don't know. Like, do you have to, and they all talk about it's going to do for their yardages, but I don't know. You know when you play Phoenix,

your five-hine's going to $200. You know when you get to Tori, it's probably going to go $185. You just know. Yeah. Like, do you need a machine to tell you that? Like, you get on the first hole and you hit 5-1 from 200, and it lands 15 short. Oh, well, it's going a bit shorter. this week is that's playing golf. Like I can't imagine Tiger would have had the track man out there too much. Tiger doesn't

even do up and downs as far for his yardage. I'm not an up and down guy either. Like it's uphill so it's going to play longer. Like I don't know. Like I love how Scotty is refreshing in this day and age and it's cool that he's the best by a long way. And everyone else is, he seems to be,

he probably sits back and laughs because everyone's making it harder than it needs to be. I think he could self-correct better to you really see him just like lost. Whereas even you see great players like that. I think it's the guys that rely on the technology and the video and their swing and where I am I? I need my teacher to look at everything that when you're out there playing and it doesn't all feel right, it's hard to self-correct. I feel like Scotty never gets too far from the middle because he knows his golf swing. That's big credit to Randy Smith too.

Yeah. And I think one of the traps that people will fall into, he's going to make it looks, golf isn't simple. I mean, you can treat it simply and he treats it simply. But Scotty, as you know, has been at the golf course every day since he was about six. And he's hit more chip shots, more putts and more fire vines than most people will ever hit in their whole life. There's a lot of, there's a lot of grind to make it look so simple. Yeah. Like it's not, he's not

good because he treats it simply, simply. That's just the cream on top. Like he has he has a lot of golf shots in his life. Yeah, and I think a big thing for him too is he loves the grind. Like he loves going out there and practicing. Which helps. Yeah. People are like, damn it, I got to go out here and waste

more time. You didn't love the grind though? I did when I was younger. I love. I I loved practicing. I had a golf course all day, every day, and then I just wanted to go gamble. Yeah, then you just want to play. We can do both at Whist Brock. It's true.

Are you still like, you were always a bit more of a player than you were a practiser, still find it that way? I mean, I hit more balls now because I've, it's almost just for recreation. I just enjoy hitting balls. And I don't have tournaments in the next,

if I don't have tournaments coming up, I just like hitting golf shots. And I like being at the golf course, and I like experimenting and playing around. in my heyday, if it was a heyday, in my best golf... Don't over-humble us with the humility. My best golf period, I chipped all the time. Like, if I was at the golf course, I was chipping or I was playing.

Like, it was 100 yards. It was a further shot I would hit in practice, and then I would just go play. Lots of money games and lots of chipping. I think chipping... I look this up. Managers... Yeah, Roms like, it's the hospital for your full swing or something like that.

Yeah, it is. For sure. I definitely fixed my golf swing a lot of. of times by chipping and pitching. And people's like swings, I feel like their chipping motions are like emulated by their full swing. Like you pitch the ball super similar to the way you swing the club. Yeah. Most people do.

Yeah. Like, it like mirrors it. Yeah. I just loved it. I think it's more like real golf. Like hitting balls, just infinite balls out under a range is, it's fun. And it's kind of, it is what it is. But chipping around, you can get a couple of balls and try to chip them in.

Like there's a hole there. Different clubs. It's more like real golf. And we're spoiled. Westbrook with the chipping for. I used to just chip all the time. Yeah. Loved it.

By the way, your heyday, you were third in the world. In the world. That's a heyday. You won eight times. Now you're like third in this room. I don't know.

I think the other day. Third in this room, I think right now. We won't say fourth because Mark's actually technically in another room. Mark's terrible. You kill him.

Actually, he dusted me a positive the last time we played. You're getting nice the other day when we played. I think it didn't it good. I feel like I play as good as I ever did. You know what I mean?

But like the nerves aren't quite same when you're a bit older. and the puts just don't seem to go in quite as well as they did when you were young. And I don't know, I probably the body feels better, used to feel better every morning than it does now. It's a few more cracks and creeks in the mornings. How weird is it? When I was writing it down,

I didn't dawn on me until then, 20-year anniversary of the U.S. Open this year. How about that? Yeah, that doesn't seem. I can remember where I was watching that thing. Yeah, that's nuts. It's amazing. When's the last time you were back there?

I had a centenary, I want to say, 23. So Wingfoot's 100th And they had a big like sort of gala dinner And like I went there for that So three years ago Yeah They have you go like hit the shots that you hit Coming on the stretch

That actually be fun I hit the shot that I chipped in on 17 And that shot's not there anymore Because a few years ago They expanded the they recaptured Some of the greens that had been drinking And where my chip was from Was actually now on the green

So you can't do that one But 18 I hit the shot yeah Yeah how to go It's still hard. Not as good as it did last time. It's still hard. That place is such a hard course. It's such a great club.

I love going there. I wish I could go there more. I wish we lived closer. But 20 years, yeah, it doesn't seem like 20 years. Until you watch the, when you watch the highlights of the broadcast of the video, it's the old square thing and it's not HD TV. It's not quite as clear. It looks like 20 years ago.

Yeah. The gear, too. When you see the gear, you look back like, damn, that wasn't that long ago. Look, we were wearing some weird shit. Amazing. Are you going to do any TV this year or too busy with President's Cup? Probably too busy. I don't know.

Like, it's, you guys are full, right? No, I just want to focus on TV. Sorry, TV. I want to focus on the President's Cup. That takes a fair bit of time. I want to go out to a bunch of tour events. Like I said, to sort of, hopefully I'm playing a few. But if I'm not, I'm going to go out anyway and hang out with the boys.

And once I get through this President's Cup, you get one chance of this, maybe. it's a once in a lifetime. I just have a full swing at that and see what happens after that. But then there'll be champions to come up after that. So I don't know. We'll just help to build some golf courses

and try to get the internationals over the line. What's the international team's like expense account look like? Pretty big? It's decent. I don't think it's as good as we're going to work. Oh, food and entertainment, that's itch. Yeah. Take the boys to dinner?

Maybe some vibe guys. It's probably not a secret. Trevor will be somewhat involved in our team. We can go under the CBS budget, can't we? His expense account will be better than yours, isn't it? Whoa, God. Better, mine. He's got one.

He's got one. I got nothing. I'm just happy to be there. Well, we'll head out a bit. We'll see what we can do. You can tag along. Done. Yeah, if Siwu's there, I'll buy dinner.

Done. Red Bulls for the table. Jeff, you're a talented, thoughtful man, and we appreciate your time, dude. Keep being you. Thanks for having me. You got it, brother. Thank you. All right, that was the International President's Cup Captain Jeff Ogilvy,

join us on subpar. Always love talking to him. A little different interview, a little more serious when it's with Jeff, but he knows some ball. Oh, he's a huge ball. By the way, if you wanted to just play grab ass the whole time and laugh and tell Joe, he can do that too. Then he can talk the highest. I think he's one of the highest IQ golf guys.

I think he's one of the most thoughtful, well-spoken guys in the game of golf. He's always fun to sit and talk some real golf with. And I tell you what, like, he still, like, wants to compete. He still has the drive. He's playing a lot right now. I think he's chomping at the bit to get out there and tee it back up on champions. And hopefully somebody slides him a sponsor's invite or two this year also. Because a game, I played with them just like last week.

And I was like, man, this looks, it looked good. It looked as good as I've seen it in a good while. It always does. But the thing I took away from that the most is I'm pretty sure we got to guarantee Siwu will be on the international team. I feel pretty good about it, especially with his start to the year. as well. It might be cemented. It helps that he is playing well.

But a lot of fun. Thanks to Jeff for coming on with us. Siles, I'm out of here. I think I'm going to bed. I don't blame you, dude. My throat's dying. I'm headed that same way, too. But lastly, we've got to give another huge thank you to find people over at Zone. It's a phenomenal event. Live show. Pat Perez was in the house. We thank you for everything they do. If you didn't catch this one, we hope to catch you at the next live one.

And, yeah, get you some rest, big fella. 363 more days next year's feet over. is it's too close. Let's be honest. All right, before we sign off, a quick warning. This product contains nicotine, and nicotine is an addictive chemical. Underage sale is prohibited. Golf's all about having the right club for the right situation,

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Well done. There you have it. All right. Let's rest up and we'll talk to you on next week's subpar.