Subpar - Hudson Swafford talks the potential path back to the PGA Tour for those leaving LIV Golf

Episode Date: August 5, 2025

On this week's episode of GOLF's Subpar Colt Knost and Drew Stoltz are joined by 3-time PGA Tour winner Hudson Swafford for an exclusive interview. The former LIV Golf player talks his initial decision to join the rival league, what path he may have to rejoining the PGA Tour and what to expect when the contracts of LIV's biggest stars expire following the 2026 season. --Thanks to our official sponsor Zone Nicotine. Warning: This product contains nicotine.  Nicotine is an additive chemical.  Underage sale prohibited.  Introducing Zone Nicotine Pouches - the perfect balance of unparalleled comfort - longer-lasting flavor - and nicotine that satisfies.  Whether you’re zoning in for an important putt or zoning out after a tough day at work, Zone gets you there faster and keeps you there longer.  Available in seven flavors and in six and nine milligram strengths.  Want zone pouches at a discount and mailed right to your door? Head to Nicokick.com and enter code “SubPar20” at checkout for an additional 20% off.--Want to join us for Ryder Cup week in New York City? Thanks to our friends at On Location, the Official Travel Package Provider of the 2025 Ryder Cup, you can now purchase an exclusive Daily Ticket Package. It includes Ryder Cup plus access, entry to the International Pavilion, and a special night with us at Five Iron Golf Grand Central.Spots are limited, so head to onlocationexp.com/subpar to secure your experience.Subpar is not directly affiliated with the PGA of America or the 2025 Ryder Cup. All packages and discounts mentioned in this episode are provided by On Location, the Official Travel Package Provider of the PGA of America and the 2025 Ryder Cup. 2025 Ryder Cup Daily Ticket Packages offered by On Location at onlocationexp.com/subpar are Subject to availability. Full purchase and privacy policy details are available at onlocationexp.com.--Head to shadyrays.com and use code SUBPAR for 35% off premium polarized sunglasses: https://shadyrays.com/collections/green-wolf--homeofgolf.com is the place to go for your next golf trip to the Pinehurst, Southern Pines, Aberdeen Area of North Carolina. Walk in the footsteps of legends at iconic Pinehurst No. 2, host to the 2024 U.S. Open, or nearly 40 other courses within a 15-mile radius.Learn more at homeofgolf.com.--Carlisle, headquartered right here in Phoenix, is the professional contractor’s choice for innovative building materials for more energy efficient homes and commercial buildings. Learn more at Carlisle.com--Choose your style, pick your favorite Birdie Juice logo and shop from a line-up of top tier brands at shop.golf.com today!

Welcome back to Golf Subpar with Colt Nost and Drew Stoltz. The regular season on the PGA tour is in the books, and Cam Young went out with a bang. As we like to say here on subpar, he was zoned in, like our friends over at Zone Nicotine. Sleaze, this man put on a dominating performance. One by six, at one point, the lead on Sunday was up to nine. This is a guy that has had seven runner-up finishes in his PGA tour career, and finally crossed the finish line in, I would say, just absolutely. just gave the field a beat down.

It was something special to watch. But what did you think of Kim Young's performance out at the Wyndham Championship? Seven runner-up finishes, like you mentioned, 19 million in earnings, which I think is a record before getting the first win on the PJ Tour, beat the shit out of everyone. And when you watch him, like, I don't even look at the six. Like, he was up nine.

The thing was dead and was over, over. And he kind of limped home. Wins by six. Could have won by the most on the PJ Tour this year. But when you watch him play, especially like he did this past week, where he was just on the entire week. I look at him like,

what? Why hasn't this come out before? Like, I know he's at seven runner up finishes in. And a lot of those, he gets hate because, like, oh, he can't close the door. If you go back and look at a lot of those, like somebody played awesome,

like really, really good. And he didn't necessarily play terrible on a Sunday. But you watch him and you're like, I mean, he rips it off the C, 100, well over 180 plus ball speed. He's sixth in strokes game putting this year. It's just like, man, like he, you know,

it was a couple, years ago, we were predicting this guy to win all the time, and it's taken a while. But now that he's there, he's definitely injected himself into that, that Rider Cup conversation. Don't know if you know this, Colt. He's from New York, the Rider Cup, also in New York this year. Yes, grew up at Sleepy Hollow. What a fantastic place that is, where his dad's the head pro there. Yeah, man, it was, it was special. We've been waiting on this to happen. He's been on the President's Cup team, was left off the Ryder Cup team the last time, and he was ninth in point. he's up to 15th right now.

Still got some work to do, but when you go out and win like that and he's trending in such a nice direction, he's definitely got Keegan Bradley's attention, but man, it's special to watch. I thought when he bogied the first hole on Sunday, when he went with the five-shot lead, I was like, oh boy, here we go. And then all of a sudden, boom, rattles off the Pink Panther,

five birdies in a row and just put this thing to bed. I heard some large lady warming up the vocal cords on about the fourth hole. like this thing was a fucking rap and just very impressed by Cam Young's performance interested to see what he does going forward he had a chance at St. Andrews at the Open Championship, played great on Sunday there.

He's a stud, man. I just, I don't, I hate using you know, open the floodgates as a lot of people do, but I do think this is going to free him up to go out there and play some really good golf. My question is just like, does he enjoy it out there? Like, even after the win, he didn't even smile when he tapped in the putt to get his first win on the PGA tour.

It was the most on-brand non-celebration of all the time. It looked like it was Thursday morning and he shot 73. When he tapped in for his first win, seven runner-ups, all this stuff. I refuse to ever use the word floodgates. It just doesn't seem to work like that. Do I think this makes it easier for him? I don't know. He had comment.

I honestly don't think this was like a burden weighing on him. I don't think he pays attention to shit that's going on on social media. He gave some quotes afterwards. It was like, yeah, you know, of course I want a win, but this isn't something that's like weighing on me. I think he's going to continue to be Cam Young just the way he is. He's got unbelievable talent. I think getting over the finish line, of course, makes it easier the next time you're there.

But I don't think this is like, who. You know, like when Rory won the Grand Slam, I think you could feel it. You can see it. It was like, oh, my God, thank Jesus. I finally won this tournament after every year that come here, they expect me to get it done. That was like weight off the shoulder, monkey off the back. This just felt like my guy that just won a golf room. I don't even think it was weighing on him all that much from what I could gather.

You know, one of the comparisons we talked about on the broadcast was David Duvall, who also had seven runner-up finishes before he finally broke through and got a win. And I know Jim Nance mentioned like people said, oh, the floodgates could open. Well, it did for David Duvall because once he won that first one, he won his next two tournaments on the PGA tour. Ended up, I believe, with 13 wins in his career, major champion, and was world number one. But he's also that stoic guy doesn't really give you anything, hides behind the shades, no facial expressions.

And it reminds me a lot of Cam Young. Yeah, there's some of that. And it has happened before where a guy waits a long time to win and then boom, all of a sudden, they start winning pretty regularly. But I feel like the floodgates or, you know, this is going to open him up. It gets used all the time. Anytime a guy wins for the first time on the PJ tour, who's a good player, obviously, or else you're not winning on the PJ tour,

it just gets thrown out a ton. And honestly, for Cam Young, I feel like it was less of a burden for him to pick up that first win than for a lot of people just because, like I said, I don't think he gives a shit about the narratives that are. around him. I think he just does his own thing. Yeah, I think the much more exciting narrative from last week was the FedEx Cup playoffs and who was going to get in, who was going to move out. One person moved in from outside the top 70. That was Chris Kirk. Ben On moved out. Maddie Schmidt buried 16, 17, and 18 to hold his position on the bubble at number 70.

Gary Woodland had a chance there, it looked like for a little bit to play his way in. Mark Hubbard, she's a final round 63, which included paring his last five holes, just missing out by one single shot, but a really good week from Mark Hubbard. Mack Meisner from SMU, best finish of his PGA Tour, career finished second, went from 159th to inside the top 90, which is huge for him just to keep his job for 2026. But exciting stuff going on there, but at the end of the day, it was all about Cam Young. Yeah, Davis Thompson, the three put on the 70s. That was a tough one.

It's not as dramatic as it used to be when this was like the end of the season, top 1,25. you're either on the PGA tour or you're not, and it would always come down to like the 71st, 72nd hole, and it was crazy drama. This isn't quite the same. Davis Thompson's still going to have a job. Does miss out on the playoffs. Would have needed a monster week in Memphis to continue on in that.

But it does matter, and that was a tough one to watch there. Yeah, and while we're on to Memphis, the first round of the FedEx Cup playoffs, going to be nice and cool at TPC Southwind. I saw a high of 95 every day. No wind will be humid as shit. Guys are going to be sweating like, crazy, dipping their hands in the cooler.

It's just gross. But 70 guys trying to get in that top 50, which 50 is the number, man. I know tour championship is great and all, but 50 is the number. Get you in all the signature events for 2026. A lot to play for. A guy I know you'll be keeping your eye on. Wyndham Clark sits at number 49 heading into Memphis. Yeah, I mean, dude, there's a lot of like kind of subplots right now.

You got the top 50 in there. And I think the Ryder Cup bubble is enormous right now. You just mentioned Wyndham Clark. He's on the outside looking in. I think Chris got her up. Cam Young are kind of in a similar spot, like very close, but still need to do, you know, make a little noise in the playoffs. I think Keegan Bradley's spot is still somewhat questionable. I mean, there's a lot of stuff still going on in this right now. So a lot to play for it these next couple weeks. One guy who doesn't have a whole lot to play for it,

so he's not showing up. Rory McRoy, not going to be there. Thoughts on Rory, skipping out on a little FedEx playoff event. Yeah, so obviously they've changed the format of the Tour championship. in the FedEx Cup finale. It is now straight up, as our friend Connor Trius likes to say. Everybody starts at zero. Roy's like, I'm going to be there. I don't need to go to Memphis and sweat my ass off

and grind it out. I'll go to Caves Valley, play the last two, and try to win another FedEx Cup title. It's kind of, it sucks, I think, for FedEx. And just for the whole thing, like so many guys are grinding to make the playoffs. I know Rory never thinks about having to make the playoffs, but this is when your stars should be there.

And I do love that on the PJ tour, you can pick and choose where you play. You get to be the boss. But when it comes to the playoffs, I really wish all the stars were there. It's tough for the PJ tour to market this is like the biggest thing. The race to the FedEx Cup playoffs, the race to East Lake, this is the biggest thing we got. And then it shows up. It's finally here. It's like, oh, by the way, one of the biggest stars in the game won't be playing.

It's not mandatory. I think with East Lake going to where everybody starts, you know, at level bar, you might see this a little bit more with some of the top guys. going forward. I'll say this, though, and tell me what you think of this. I care about him skipping this event less than I do the signature events that he's skipped in the past because he was one of the ringleaders for putting that in place. Hey, we need smaller fields. We need more money. Let's take care of our stars. He was the guy for that. And then what does he do? Like, he's missed RBC a couple times. The one that shocked me this year is he skipped Mr. Nicholas's tournament at Memorial.

You know? I was like, dude, you're the guy in there lobbying for this. You're a big reason that this went through. I think there's a bigger deal missing those, honestly, than the FedEx Cup playoffs. And he, by the way, before they made them non-mandatory, like, he would, you skipped RBC and was like, screw it, I just paid $3 million. Like, he's made so much money. Like, it doesn't matter at this point. Well, most of these guys, that's how it is now. Like, the money, they don't, they don't look at the purse and say, oh, this one's $8 million. This one's $10 million. I'm going to play that one. Like, the $20 million, I get it. It's going to get a lot of people's attention.

But guys like Rory and Scotty, that stuff doesn't matter. Scotty he's been very open like how much the Byron Nelson means to him the next week was a signature event at Philly Cricket Club the truest championship $20 million purse versus $9 million purse. Scotty doesn't care. Scottie probably don't even know how much he wins each time he wins. Like he does not pay one bit of attention. It's all about what means the most to him, what tournaments fit best in his schedule. The money is just it's a non-factor now. That's why I just wish the PGA tour would just go back to if you have a PGA tour card,

you're eligible for these events. I'm fine with if the signatures you want to go to like 100 people and you cut to 60 or 65, and then the full field events are 120 or 132. So then, yes, it is you do have to earn your way into those signature events for the most part. But open these things up. Let's have everyone battling it out. Let's give everybody the same chance. Like when you're in the top 50 and you're playing those signature events,

you're playing a whole different tour than like the guys that are coming out as a rookie off the cornfairy tour. You got to work if you're in that top 50 to fall out and lose. is your PJ tour guard. I think Matthew Pavone has done exactly that this year, but otherwise, like, it's hard to do. And I'm a hundred, I think you hit the nail on that. I would love to see a hundred man field. If you keep your PJ tour card, I should be on a level playing field with the superstar. I should at least have the chance to play against them. That's the way it used to be. And now it's like, does Scotty Schaeffler need the 80th ranked guy on the PGA tour to not be in the field so that we can protect the stars? Like, he's the best player in the world. It doesn't

matter. The stars are the stars because they beat everyone. I don't know why we're making and impossible for these guys that are outside of that number to even have a chance to compete with them. If you keep your tour card, especially now they've cut it to 100 cold. It's like, dude, can we just play the same events more or less? And then open up, like you said, open the other ones up to 125. Yeah, I'm with you. I can tell you this.

Roy McRoy, Scotty Sheffler, they're going to be at the Ryder Cup in just 52 days, and you can too. Because picture this. You're at the Ryder Cup at Beth Page Black. And later that night, you're hanging with us in the heart of New York City, swinging at simulators, sipping cocktails, and recapping all the action. Yes, it is happening, and you're invited. The Ryder Cup is headed to Beth Page Black in 2025, and this time, we're going with you.

That's right. Thanks to our friends at On Location, the official travel package provider of the Ryder Cup. We're bringing the Subpar podcast to New York, and we've teamed up for an experience you're not going to want to miss. You can now score official daily ticket packages that come with Rider Cup tickets. That's your ticket to the grounds, access to the international pavilion hospitality area, plus entry to an exclusive night event at Five Iron Golf's Grand Central location. And we'll be there hanging with fans, recording daily recap episodes with some special guests and just soaking in the energy of Ryder Cup Week. This isn't your average watch party. We're talking premium simulators,

a Callaway Club fitting, Lightbites, beer, wine, and a custom cocktail all in the heart of Manhattan. Just head to on locationexp.com slash subpar and select your daily ticket package to the Grand Central Experience. You'll find complete package details there, including everything that's included and what to expect during Rider Cup week. Packages are limited. Don't miss your chance to be a part of this unforgettable Rider Cup week with us. Again, that's OnLocationexp.com slash subpar. And just a quick heads up, Subpar is not directly affiliated with the PG of America or the 2020. rider cup. All packages are provided by OnLocation, the official travel package provider of the PGA of America and the 2025 Rider Cup. You can find full details and policies at OnLocationexp.com.

Subpar is not directly affiliated with the PGA of America or the 2025 Rider Cup. All packages and discounts mentioned in this episode are provided by On Location. The official travel package provider provider of the PGA of America and the 2025 Rider Cup. 25 Rider Cup daily ticket packages offered by on location at on location eXP.com slash subpar are subject to availability. Full purchase and privacy policy details are available at on locationexp.com. It's going to be an awesome week there, man. Can't wait for the Ryder Cup. We're going to be there all week.

We're on the coverage for the Sirius XM as well as doing this great event for on location, as well as our friends over at Zone. All right, so there's one last thing before we get to our guests this week. And these bad boys right here, my shady race, came in handy last week because there was a lot of tears at the Wyndham Championship. My good friend Ian Baker-Finch doing his last ever broadcast for CBS. 30 years in the booth, 19 of them with the CBS. It was emotional, a lot of tributes to him.

The tears were flowing, so I had to cover my eyes with my shady rays so people couldn't see the tears. And shady rays offers high-performance sunglasses built with golfers in mind. The Green Wolf Collection has semi-polarized lenses to cut glare, increasing clarity. Enhances contrast on course, tent designed to enhance readability, lightweight, comfortable with rubber nose pads, and snap pin hinges. So they stay in place during your swing. 30-day risk-free returns and exchanges. Head to shady rays.com and use code subpar for 35% off sunglasses. Yes, I needed them very much, Sleez. It was a, it was an emotional week out there. Shout out to IBF for an amazing career. So much fun, spending the weekend with him,

celebrating with him. We had an awesome team dinner. Saturday night. They made an awesome video of him that we got to see some old school Ian Baker Finch clips and just share stories. It was an emotional one, but it was a fun one.

I thought it was just beautiful how Jim Nance allowed Ian Baker Finch to call the final putt of the tournament when Cam Young tapped in for his first win. I will say this. Jim Nance, who's just so good with his words, we were joking

Saturday night before we headed into the final show. Cam Young with the massive lead. And he wanted to say, out with the old and in with the young, as Ian Baker Finch was making his exit. But obviously, that's just a little joke behind the scenes. But that's how good Jim Nance is. He comes up with stuff like that.

But awesome week for Finchie, man. It was tough for our crew, but a lot of fun. And it was awesome to celebrate him. 30 years strong for the man. And he's one of the few that, like, there's been a lot of good people in television across the board. But it's hard to find

somebody that seems like everyone likes, especially this day and age. And Ian Baker French from the players to the other people in media, his peers, it seems like I don't hear anyone ever say a bad word about Ian Baker Finch. So congrats on a great run, my man, and enjoy the time off. Yeah, you saw, I mean, the messages from Mr. Nicholas, Tiger Woods, Commissioner Monaghan, everybody. I mean, the amount of people that stopped into the Super Tower to say goodbye to Finci and, like, thank you for everything you've done.

I told you on our radio show earlier today, our good friend John McGinnis, who's one of the best in the business. We were on the range sitting there watching guys warm up, and John just comes over, and he's just always so great with his words. And he just walked up and he said, Finchie, you left it better and you found it. And I was like, that's just, that's perfect. Awesome way to say it. No doubt about it. Two of the greats right there, John and McGinnis included. Yeah, 30 years.

Can't imagine. But Finchie, hope you enjoy retirement, my man. I know you're going to be playing a lot of golf and spending time with those grandkids, but it's been a pleasure working alongside you. Let's get to our guest this week. This is an interesting one here. I like this a lot. So Hudson Swofford, one of the guys who can actually tell us what it's like playing over

at Live. Played on the PGA tour, won three times, went over to Live, has dealt with some injuries, played a couple of seasons over there. Now trying to figure out what's next. How does he come back to professional golf? Here's Hudson Swofford on golf subpar. All right, folks, our guest today spent eight years on the PGA tour where he was a three-time winner out of the University of Georgia.

He spent the last three years playing on the live tour. He's now dipping his toes into the business world, which we're going to learn a little bit more about today on the show as well. Hudson Swofford joins us. HUD, good to be with you, buddy. What's up, boys? Y'all doing all right? Everything is fantastic.

Good to be with you. We actually ran into you in New York City a few weeks ago. Had a few cocktails turned into quite the evening, I would say. It was an epic evening. I went from a nice quiet dinner with my wife. to Texan Colt and figuring out where our next shot was. So it was a great evening. Yeah, those nights tend to happen. But it was always great to catch up. Slees mentioned you're not playing golf at the moment. You're talking about the business world a little bit. What are we doing?

So I'm working in real estate actually, multifamily, working with a vertically integrated company, Hathaway companies out of Atlanta and grinding in the multifamily world, actually enjoying it. It's a good company. A lot of great guys, part of it. So it's been fun. Yeah, it's a different world. And it's for the first time since you were a child, I would assume. You're not playing a golf tournament.

You're not getting ready for a golf tournament. How have you enjoyed it, like stepping away? It's actually been good, Slees. I'm struggling with my golf as my scores reflected, especially on live there the last few years. Yeah, I've been in a pretty bad place with golf. Doing something new is very refreshing and putting a lot of time and energy into that has been great. It's kind of allowed me to kind of step back, hang out more with the family. I mean, don't get me wrong, golf is amazing, competing at the highest levels of the best,

but it's very tough on a family life and I have three kids. So seeing that aspect and being around a lot more has really been kind of eye-opening. it's been actually really, really enjoyable. I think that's one of the, like, there are very few downsides, I would say, to playing golf at the highest level, but the family situation, traveling so much as you do, like obviously live, you played a lot less, but on the PGA tour playing 25 to 30 weeks a year, I mean, it's difficult to travel with your family, especially when they start getting in school and everything.

But that's the one thing I don't think people realize, like it's not the easiest job in the world, even though it's so great. And I think that's what was so awesome about what Scotty Sheffler said last week, heading into the Open Championship. I couldn't agree more with you. And it couldn't agree more with him. I mean, he's spot on. Like, everybody sees maybe the top 15 players in the world

and what they do each and every week. And they play great. They make lots of money. But honestly, like, there's a lot of good players out there. And there's a lot of players that are, you know, succeeding on the PGA tour that have families. And it is a tough family dynamic. not everybody's just getting on their own Gulfstream going wherever and I mean you're

staying in like two or three hotel rooms and you get there you know Monday night and the weeks are long and then you're not going home the next week you pack up and go to the next event so my family traveled with me with when we just had one son uh in our oldest uh when we had our daughter things became a little bit tougher with too um so yeah people don't see that, don't realize that, don't take that in, you know, in account. And, you know, Scotty's really has kind of shed some light on that, being in his position, number one, playing the golf that he's playing. And, you know, he's pretty vocal of having his family around, having a son around.

So, yeah, it's not an easy task, traveling, playing really good golf, and being a parent all the same time. Yeah, it ain't an easy job for the family as far as family. It's a little easier when you're Scotty Shepard. You make $60 million a year or you can fly wherever. It gets a little easier. For the average guy, it's damn near impossible. But you're doing the real estate thing right now. You said your golf game hasn't been in a good place.

You may end up just loving real estate and staying there for the rest of your life. But do you have ambitions right now? Like, is there hope? Like, hey, man, I really actually would like to get back to playing golf for a living. Yeah, I mean, I'd never going to rule it out. Like golf's been amazing to me. Like I said, won three times. one time on the nationwide then.

But yeah, I love golf. Like I'm not going to completely close it out. Just I got into a bad rut with the golf swing, did a bunch of, was doing a bunch of stuff that wasn't quite me and I really struggled and couldn't quite make the changes that, you know, I thought that it was going to help me and propel me to, you know, be a better player and kind of took a couple steps backwards. And it was at a kind of unfortunate,

time in my career. But, you know, I'm still having fun with it and still, you know, kind of trying to learn and get out of that rut. And once that rut, once I get past that, I, you know, I'm not going to rule out anything. But the road back to professional golf is a little blurry at the moment. So we will, we'll kind of see and I just kind of go and take it, you know, one step at a time and see what that actually has. Yeah, we'll get into the pathway back here in a little bit, but I want to ask because this always fascinates me because, I mean, golfers are just crazy, right? You won three times on a Fiji Tour.

That's not easy. Not a lot of people have won three times. Why the hell do golfers change things when things are going well? I don't know. I don't know. Great answer. You know, I thought the grass might be a little greener. I was, you know, with Scott Hamilton for seven.

years, had a lot of success with him, made a couple changes. Maybe, you know, my wedge game was always the thing that kind of just slowed me a little bit. So I was changing to do something that, you know, made me a little bit of better wedge player. And yeah, it crept into my long game. I was, I feel like I was one of the best drivers of the golf ball, one of the best long-iron players in the game and that definitely took a little bit of a hit, I will be honest. So I don't know. I, Cole, I can't answer that. I just feel like you should really own what you're good at and micromanage the stuff that you're, you know, maybe not as good at. And yeah, put a lot of emphasis on your good stuff. Yeah, I mean, it's wild to look back. I mean, obviously Tiger Woods is

a whole other level. Like, he's a freak. But like the fact that Tiger Woods would ever change his golf swing from what he did in the year 2000 just will always boggle my mind. I just think he got to the point he was so good he got bored. Yeah, he needed a challenge. I mean, for sure. And I think we all do. Like you want to, I mean, I wasn't number one in the world. So I was playing in majors, but I wanted to play better in majors. I wanted to, you know, get farther out the world ranking. So, you know, I thought I was doing something that could be for the better. I didn't, I kind of took for granted what I did all my good strengths. I was like, that's not going to be, nothing's going to, nothing's going to really hinder that. And, you know, I was, I was wrong on that. But I'd also have had a,

you know, a number of injuries kind of through the game and through sports. So body dynamics change as you get older. So you got to do, you do have to make a few changes on the fly when, when that kind of stuff happens. So, you know, it, I thought I was doing it for the better. I'm not saying that it's not. This is just a very rough period. And, you know, the timing of it was not the best, but I'm not saying that it's ever over. Yeah, was it two years ago you had the injury that caused you to miss like most of, maybe the entire live season? Are you good from that now? Like if you go out and play right now, is there any concerns physically? Yeah, no. So I had right hip surgery and it, honestly,

my left one probably bothers me more than my right. My right doesn't bother me at all. I had very successful surgery in Nashville, Dr. Byrne, you did a great job. I feel like I, you know, did everything in the rehab process and really, really hammered it out and did a good job. And then still just kind of struggled. I think I'd just kind of gotten some bad habits before that injury. And I just couldn't shake them.

And then going back and competing on, you know, the live, which, I mean, anybody, people can say what they want, The fields are pretty strong over there. And you can't just kind of fake it around. And then I just kind of got in the middle of the season and I was showing up. And I was grinding. I felt like I was doing all the right things and just not having a chance to compete. I mean, it was a miserable place.

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That's homeofgolf.com. back to Hudson Swopper. Well, let's talk a little bit about that decision to go to live because I know it wasn't easy. I mean, your three-time winner on the PGA tour, this live tour comes along, obviously throwing around a bunch of money. But take us through that whole decision, like when they reached out and what was it like talking with your family and friends about making that move over to the live tour, which I know I'm sure you probably received quite a bit of heat about it.

Oh, man, it was definitely a tough decision. and I kind of I was in talks with them, I want to say maybe mid-March, mid, you know, second week of March or whatnot. And I was intrigued by it just because we would sit around, you know, after rounds and having lunch and all of our concerns about the tour. And, you know, everybody feels like we play too much. There's too many playing opportunities, which you don't want to decrease playing opportunities, but playing the week before Thanksgiving can be a little difficult.

There's no time to really take a break. And then so we would always come up with these ideas. And then, you know, finally somebody came along that wants to challenge a PGA tour and maybe force the PGA tour's hand a little bit to kind of listen to the players a little bit more. And, you know, they want to break. You know, the best in the world want to take a little bit of a break, get away from it. Like this game, you just will beat your head into the wall time after time if you're just doing it each and every week. So I was intrigued about the competition.

I was intrigued by, you know, I like the team component thing. I think it's, you know, outside the box thinking whether it takes off and golf, I don't know. We'll see. But the decisions, it was very tough. And I had some good talks with both sides. with my agent, Butler Malnick, and my family, and live early on. And I was actually in March. And then I was playing pretty good right around the master's time

and playing pretty good right at Hilton Head. And we were expecting our second child three weeks later, had a chance to actually win Hilton Head. I was won back with four to play and an untimely shot on 15 that year. I did not end up winning. but was playing some good golf. And so then I took three weeks off, four weeks off, to kind of enjoy and help my wife out

with our second child that was on the way. And I didn't touch a club for a couple weeks, and I was working hard in the gym at that time, but I noticed that my right hip was really starting to bother me. And I don't know if it was from some of the swing, changes that I'd made that I thought was actually really good at the time because I had won back in January. But I knew something was kind of wrong.

And it just was hindering me. And so when we had, you know, my wife gave birth to our daughter and everything was great there and life was, you know, rolling, except for this lingering injury. When I came back, started playing some golf. I think my first one back was Byron Nelson. And in Dallas, and I could barely get through the week because my hip was killing me so bad. The next one, I missed a cut that week by like one or two,

go to the PGA and end up getting a shot, like, in my hip to try to numb it up. And it was, it wasn't great. And so the talks after the PGA became pretty real with Liv, Because like you said, they were giving out a bunch of money. It was pretty enticing. Never had anything guaranteed in my life. Had three surgeries prior to that.

And I didn't really know what was going on. I just knew something was wrong. So, you know, I talked to Catherine more about it. We had our second child. I did in, you know, I was like, if I'm, if we're going to kind of pursue this, you would rather get in early rather than late, especially I think I was, you know, mid-60s in the world. I had won the previous two season or that season and the season before, which had got me in a pretty good place, obviously.

But yeah, the decision was not an easy one. I knew I was going to take some heat for doing this. Didn't know how much heat I was actually going to take. But yeah, it was definitely some tough times for sure. But that was kind of a lot of my decision making in it. you know i was definitely i was intrigued by live and i know i feel like the actual events are really good over there if you've gone and actually partaking the events i know there's but like everything it's a startup and rules change all the time there's not a ton of transparency uh up front so yeah that

that was the most difficult part of all that once i got there yeah i'm glad you mentioned that rules because you played in the first ever live event back in, I think it was London back in 2020. At that point, what was your understanding of how playing in that event would affect your PGA tour membership? And did anyone go over there playing in London believing that they were just going to come back to the PGA tour with no suspension or any sort of repercussions? No, we knew there would be some repercussions. I knew that, you know, I'd be suspended for a little while, didn't know how long. so yeah there was definitely some unknowns there but i didn't i didn't think like it would be able to be this fractured for this long to be honest with you and i don't think any of us really did i thought

you know i still think that it needs to come together but i just don't know how it's going to come together because both sides want to play a short condensed schedule and there's not enough weeks in the year. So I mean, as a golf fan, and I'm a traditional golf fan, like, you want to see the best playing together. And this division, I don't think is great for the game. But on the flip side of that, I think competition makes everything better. So I think the PGA tour needed to be challenged in their hand kind of needed to be shaken up a little bit because they've had it, you know, they've had the best product for a long time. And there just really hasn't been some competition to stir the PGA tour, if you will.

Yeah, it definitely brought up apart some changes, obviously, a lot more money in the game now. But just take us through what it's like playing over there, because Slees and I, I don't think neither of us have ever been to an event. And we see it on social media and everything. But what are some of the things you liked about the live tour? And what are some things that you didn't like?

Yeah. Well, I enjoy traveling and going and seeing it. Like on the PGA tour, I was not afraid to go. to, you know, the Malaysia events or go to Asia and play or leave the country. I enjoy kind of going and seeing. So that, I thought that part was actually intriguing. I enjoyed going to a bunch of different countries, playing, you know, in front of different crowds, just playing in front of people that really enjoy the game.

So that part was very intriguing to me. And I enjoyed the travel. I enjoyed a little bit shorter schedule. Maybe 12 events is not quite enough, but add a few more would have been really good in the condensed the schedule. You know, you can sit there with your family on January 1 and kind of plan some vacation time, which is very hard to do on the PGA tour. There's a lot of times where you plan something and then you tell your wife the week before, like, we can't do this or I can't be there. And I can't tell you how many times I had to do that and my wife gets irritated, but she knows the program. That was just part of it.

And so I thought that was very intriguing. And with the home life, I thought it was going to be a lot better. And it honestly was for the family time. It really was. Things I didn't like, you know, the lack of transparency, the rule change. kind of you never knew where we stood week to week or what was going to change you know I did have a long-term contract so a couple years didn't affect me but rules were changing against guys that were playing you know very mediocre and whatnot so it was just it was

tough I was I would try to get answers on certain different fronts and It was tough when I had my injury to get answers. It was very tough. I basically created their injury policy. And I still don't think it's very black and white over there. But, you know, it's, that part was a little. It kind of weighed on me. Honestly, that was when I honestly kind of started second guessing my decision when

how I was kind of dealt with my injury. I mean, there's injuries in sports. Like, it's going to happen. People are going to sit out and you're going to have to miss times. It just is what it is. And the way that I was handled, I did not think it was very good until it was almost too late. But then they came back and, you know, honored my contract. And, you know, I got my year back and played last year and played very poorly.

That was on me. But got my chance. but did honestly in the middle of the year I didn't know if I was going to get that chance so at that part I thought would have really kind of crippled the tour going forward based on somebody getting hurt and you know that's kind of your kind of your chance and it's over like I don't think that would have sat very well going forward with guys yeah I want to like you're talking about things you liked there you didn't like or you would change I'm going to give you some of the narratives that come up whether they're fair or not these are some of things you're that are said about live as a guy who played on i want you tell me like yeah there's some truth to that or no that's just that's a bologna sandwich no truth to it whatsoever so the first one that comes up the most is like all right guys go to live they get paid a ton of money and then they stop carrying and don't work on their game very hard truth or not not even close i mean it was super competitive yeah i mean guys are guys are grinding i mean i saw phil mickleson i saw brooks i saw

Dustin working harder on their game at events than I ever did on the PGA tour. Interesting. Yeah. I kind of think that narrative has been way overblown as if the guys on the PGA tour aren't making shit pots of money too, but yet somehow they still find a way to care and grind. Another one, the no cut, 50-all events, which has gotten interesting with the way the PGA tour has changed their schedule. But no-cut events, 54-hole events, don't prepare live guys for major championship success.

Thoughts? I mean, plenty of guys have had success in major championships. I mean, you've had, I mean, even done Richard Vland winning a couple major championships on the senior tour. You've had, I mean, you have Bryson and Brooks win. You've had guys be competitive. But like I said, guys go to major events and they do everything different from what they've done all year and the way they prepare. So they put these tournaments up on their pedestal as they should. And you kind of train all year for it.

but I just don't think you should treat majors any differently than you would treat a normal week and preparing, if that makes sense. And I feel like some guys, some really good golfers, you can kind of over prepare and wear yourself down early in the week. We're going to step away for a moment to tell you that this podcast is supported by Carlyle companies, a leading manufacturer of innovative building envelope systems. With buildings responsible for over a third of total energy use and energy demand on the rise, Carlisle is meeting the challenge head on. Carlisle's advanced energy efficient and labor-saving solutions help reduce strain on the grid while reducing labor for contractors. A great example of Carlisle's latest innovations is Henry Ultra Touch recycled denim insulation, made from sustainable recycled denim cotton clothing fibers.

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playing the week before the majors? Some guys don't. When it comes to the schedule, are there any complaints from some of these big name guys? I mean, obviously like Bryson, Brooks, Dustin, they're all in majors, they're major champions. But some of them might not want to play the week before, but you're kind of forced to with live. Yeah, I think the overall consensus is most guys wanted to play the week before. I know some guys wanted more events before the Masters.

So they've been working on that. I think they'd kind of address that this year a little bit better because there was, I think, the last few years, there was only a couple events. And I know Brooks went and played a international series just to get some more competitive rounds before Augusta. So there's definitely been some talks. I'm not involved with any talks really now, but I know there's been some talks about adding a couple more events to the schedule and maybe getting up to six.

16 events, maybe 17 events to where in that condensed time frame from February to August, to where some guys feel like they are in good shape going into different majors. But as a scheduling thing, I think that some of the, you know, John Robs like Brooks, Bryson, they really push to have some more events before Augusta just to prepare them for major season. I think another thing, Slay's not to jump in here on you at all, but like the world ranking points. We had Carlos Ortiz on here and he said flat out like, I was told we were going to get world ranking points before I went over there. And obviously that has not happened. What was that discussion like with you?

Because I know that's a big concern for a lot of guys. Yeah, no, 100%. Like I was very down. I mean, I couldn't believe it when we went into a meeting, just a whole player meeting. And they're like, yeah, we're just wooddrawing our application. I'm like, why? you're just giving up like i don't i mean we came over here on this consensus that you were going to fight for us and and everything and it doesn't matter what and so it just kind of like threw her hands up

and it's like oh well we didn't get it and it's like no that's kind of bullshit but i did i had some great talks with peter dawson a couple years ago at uh the dunhill uh played nine holes in a practice round with him and we just kind of talked about it and he said that he would he would love to give live world ranking points. But at the beginning and at that time, he was just like, and he's like, the turnover, he's weird talking about the cut at 24. So that was half the guys at the time. He goes, I think that's kind of harsh.

He's like, I don't even need to see that kind of turnover. He was talking about maybe 35 or 38 guys keep their card, but that's a hard cut. If you're not there, you get relegated, you're out. You go to the Q school. And he goes, if we had turnover, like a definitive turnover, and we knew that, and we knew that guys were just kind of getting handpicked to be on live, or you weren't with the right agents. Because you were with an agency, you were on live. Like that kind of just took away some maybe some credibility. And he said that, you know, I would, if there was a true cutoff and everybody abided by those rules and you had to go to like a Q.

school, then he goes, the talks would be real. He's like, lives not personally for me. That's what he was telling me, because he's a traditional golf guy, but he goes, I love that there's new competition and that it's traveling around the world. It's, you know, bringing golf to areas of the world that have craved it that hadn't just hadn't had access to it. So he liked all those components. And he wanted to give world ranking points, but I don't, I don't know. the miscommunication because I wasn't in small meetings with that, but it just seems like things could have changed to get those world ranking points. Yeah, and I think it's been long enough.

When it first started, I was like, okay, this is a brand new tour. They don't know how to wait this thing, giving points. Like, that's going to take some time. I think it's been around long enough now that it's bullshit. It's like, all right, dude, you got some world class golfers over there. They shouldn't be getting zero points. Would it be easier, do you think, or what would be better, I guess, if you could pick, if you're playing on the live tour, all right, we're going to start getting world

golf ranking points for our events going forward? Or would it be better if they just said, okay, Liv, you guys, it's 10 guys get in the major championships based on your rankings, your criteria, whatever you want to do it? Which one do you think would be more well received? And that number can change, obviously, 10. Yeah, I think both. I think there's a way that they can get world rankings, right? Like the PGA tour, if it gets ranked 72 holes, get rangs out, you have to get 54 holes in to be an official world rankings. ranking you to get official world ranking points so everybody would argue with me like well it's bullshit you only play 54 holes and i was like well we only have to complete 54 holes on the

pga tour to get world ranking points and everybody's like really i was like yeah so you don't need to bring that argument to me and i you know i definitely think that if you go through the season and your top 10 on live like you've had a really good season over there against a very competitive group of guys. So I think they should be awarded something in the majors. And I think the majors are taking to that now. So they're, I mean, they're not naive to it. Half the guys that have played in the majors for the last decade are over there. So a couple decades, really. So it's, I think they are addressing that. And my last year, they were being very proactive. The majors were about inviting live guys and start to invite live guys there based on some criteria over there.

So it needs to happen. And how you get world ranking points over there, you know, I'm not sure. But I do think they deserve it in some manner. Now, I don't think every guy, one through 54 deserves it. But there's a cutoff and there could be something. It's interesting. Yeah, you said that about as far as like getting on the tour and getting off the tour is one of the big holdups. What Peter Dawson said.

I find that like fascinating because I've always said that all along. Like you have 54 guys or whatever, how many ever the number is now 60. And it's like, okay, you start the season here. You play like shit. There's like a couple of guys that get relegated. They made some new rules. So the captains could stay on last year with Bubba Watson and stuff like that. Like that just blew my mind.

I was like, okay, you want to be a legit tour. You want to have guys coming and going. But yet one of your guys plays horrible. And all of a sudden, they're like, never mind. He's okay. He's a big name. He can stay. Yeah.

Like you have to have a hard cut. off if you want to have a viable product. Like it just is what it is. Like if Bubba Watson or, you know, myself or Brendan Grace, we don't play good. I mean, you go back to Q school. You go back to the Corn Ferry Tour. Like, it's not fun. But that's just part of it.

And, you know, it, you got to have a hard cut off somewhere. You can't be wishy-washy. Yeah. If you want to actually have a backbone and go forward with it. Yeah. It's got to be cleared cut. And it's got to, you got to stand. by, I think what you say the criteria is.

But HUD, I know you, I believe you've had some conversations with people within the PGA tour about potential return. What, what have you been told about that? What does that process look like? Like, where do you stand on that right now? Yeah, I've had some good back and forth with a PGA tour, but then some wishy-washy. It's still not set in stone. I know they've set up suspended until 27.

which I know they're basing that on a couple people's contracts being up after the 26th season. So then they can kind of change rules in favor of everybody coming back. I know some guys that didn't have any status, and it's a hard one year, you know, no PGA tour sanctioned events. But then you can come back and play. So then I, but my problem is, is I come in and talk to them. It's like, okay, I can come back and play in 27. but what is 27 on the PGA tour really look like? Is it no more opposite field events?

Is it, you know, they're already reducing field? So I would go ahead and bet and say that the past champions category is pretty much done going forward after this year. I mean, we can agree or disagree, but it just seems like that. And they've kind of told me that. So, I mean, I guess you can sign up for Monday qualifiers, but so really I'd be basically suspended until Q. school of 27, if you will. And I was just like, this is just, I don't know how you can come up with a five or five and a half year suspension based on some, I guess I played five events that, that were,

they're thinking was I played five events while the PGA tour season was going on in 22, that I didn't, wasn't able to get media releases for. So they're giving me a year for each of those. and it equal 27. That's interesting. I like that you brought up that 27 with people's contracts expiring at the end of 26. Do you think that's really the reason they have set 27 is because, you know, I'm guessing it's the likes of Bryson DeShambo, Brooks Keppka, that their contracts are up at the end of 26. Yeah.

You know, I be pure speculating, but I mean, there's a good hunch on that. I mean, but I don't know for sure. They have not told me that. They just said I was suspended until, you know, January of 27. So because you look at a guy like James Piot who played over there on live and he just, he just got a sponsor exemption into the rocket in Detroit. And so I'm like, okay, so he gets to play. He played on live.

I know he's not a member of was never a member of the PGA tour, but he still went to live and then all of a sudden, boom, he's playing in the PGA tour because in my opinion, this is the one thing like I've been very outspoken against live for the most part. Like I think the only thing it's really done for the game of golf is. brought more money to the players, which is great. But if a tournament wants to give Hudson Swofford or Dustin Johnson a sponsor exemption and there's not a live tournament opposite, I don't have a problem with that. Correct.

Like, that's that, I mean, I think the sponsors should be able to do whatever they want, right? How much money are they paying now? They're paying a ton. So I think they should be able to do what they want. And one thing I do disagree with on Scotty Sheffler and I've seen in a couple of press conferences is that he said that, you know, the media should just go over to the Live tour wherever they're playing and ask the tours, you know, ask those players why the tour is divided. And I'll be honest with you, the whole consensus of the LIP players, they would play the PGA tour events.

They would play PGA tour events. Now, whether they get in 15 events, I don't know, but they would love to go play a number of events on the tour and still that they, you know, love to play. I would love to go play MX. I would love, you know, a place that I've won twice. There was a number of events that I would have still tried to play if, you know, if I was allowed. So they kind of created this narrative that the live guys don't care about the PGA tour, don't want to be a part of it when in all reality, like everybody would go back and play a number of events on tour.

But that's just not allowed. Yeah, I mean, John Rom has been outspoken. Like he said it sucks when he's sitting at home and the Phoenix Open's going on. Tori Pines is one of his favorite places, the players, all these. I get it. But at the same time, like just on the side. of the PGA tour, it's like, okay, Liv has 14 events. You have to play those.

I mean, that's why they're paying y'all a shit ton of money. You have to play those. And the PGA tour, like I get like, they're not going to be okay with guys just cherry picking five events. Like they have a minimum and you have to meet that. And the top guys in the world, they're not going to play 30 events a year anymore. Totally

agree. Totally agree. But those guys might make the playoffs only playing five events, right? And they're majors. So, yeah, okay, you're not a full member. of the PGA tour, but you can compete and try to play in the playoffs and you will keep your card, but you don't get full retirement, you don't get your health insurance, you know, stuff like that. So I just, I feel like the two products and I totally, I understand where PGA tour players are

coming about. They don't want these guys coming back and cherry picking from events, you know, events, but, you know, if you had a couple PGA tour teams per se that, you know, you could rotate guys in and out through the live schedule that could go over there that may be qualified through the FedEx Cup. I just think that the only people that are winning in this are the majors. And I honestly think Liv is suffering from it, and I think the PGA tour is suffering from it. And both of them are very hard-headed and don't want to give an inch.

So it makes it tough. I mean, the only people that are winning are the four majors because it's awesome watching the majors right now. There's the storylines. You kind of get some villains to come back in there. I think the PGA tour is kind of lacking some villains. I mean, everybody's kind of best friends. And that's the story narrative right now. And you got to have the guy that you want to pull against that's really good in golf.

And when it all comes back together, the majors, like it is an exciting time. I agree with that. What's your gut feeling, and you can decline this question if you want. But you're talking about your situation here, right, coming back and what you're being told. Let's go to the end of those contracts for the guys we talk about. Bryson, Brooks, ROM. They're kind of in a different ballgame, you know, a different class than a lot of the other players. What do you think they will choose to do when their contracts run out?

And if you were the PJ Tour and those guys' contracts ran out and they said, hey, I want to come back and start playing. How would you handle them? man i don't know there's that is a good question it's a big question no it is yeah i mean if okay you got to look at it on this side all these tour guys got equity in the tour right so how would you not want bryson and brooks and the likes of dustin and john rom um walking neeman all these good players to come back that's going to increase your value right? Yeah.

Like your tour is going to get better with them coming back. But are you really going to stick up your nose and be like, we don't need them because they have a decision that they made. Like, I don't know. It's going to be fascinating. Yeah, it is. It's going to be real interesting once these contracts come up, like what is going to happen? I guess one of my questions for you who have played both.

Yeah. It's just we look at the ratings and everything. And, you know, you can. say streaming app, whatever you want. But why do you think Live has not been a huge success as far as like the American TV audience? But I keep, that was a question I brought up to numerous Live workers. I was like, what is y'all's goal? What is y'all's main goal?

And the consensus was a big US TV deal. And I was like, okay, then why aren't we disrupting the US TV market? Why aren't we playing in the US more? We're leaving the country more. or playing in time zones that are far away from the actual U.S. And I go, like it or not, like people don't watch tape the late sports. Yeah, you can go to your phone and you get the results. Like, you're not watching it.

Like, it just is what it is. And so I, you know, I enjoyed the world travel and I like the world travel. But if this is your main goal of getting the U.S. TV deal, then you've got to play, you know, around that time zone, around those time zone. Whether we go to South America, Central America more, I don't know. But you've got to be, you've got to have live action and tape-delayed sports. I just, I can't wrap my head around it. I don't think anybody else can.

I love that that that's what they tell you is like they wanted to attract a U.S. TV audience because all these people on Twitter, a bunch of the haters out there, They're like, we don't care about the U.S. ratings. It's not all about America. It's about traveling the world and growing the game worldwide. And I get that, but I know they do care about those ratings, and those ratings are not good for them. Yeah, no, I would agree.

Yeah, it's been challenging for sure. But they're, like I said, I would go back to it that the actual events that live were, they were fun. They were run very well. They put a great team in place on such a, short notice. There was a lot of, there was a lot of good crowds out of the country. So the support there, I mean, it was, it was crazy to see like how much support really

came out and watching a really good group of players go around the world and kind of like starved markets, really, for really good golf. And, you know, there was a bunch of, there was a bunch of positivity. outside the U.S. And the narrative, yeah, it's been tough for live, honestly, in the U.S. and getting really good venues. But they know ultimately that they want a U.S. TV deal. So that was my question.

Like, how do we not play closer to that time zone a lot more? Yeah, I'm very interested that you said that. Hey, the main goal is an American TV deal. Because from where I stand, when I look around, I'm like, dude, this Australia event looks sick. There's a ton of people out there. It's great. London looks awesome. I think it was Mexico City looks. I was like they got some great like it feels like more momentum internationally, just not necessarily in the States. So that's why I'm like,

I thought they would lean more into that. Like we don't even need the states. You could have the tour in Australia. They probably show up every week because they're starved for golf down there. But what what were some of the like best venues, best events that you played on live? Where'd you look forward to going? Man, I, that Australia event was awesome. And I don't. I only got to play it once. And the crowds were unbelievable. I'm not going to say it's waste management,

but they were good golf fans. They would give you, they would give you shit if you hit a bad shot, but they really applauded you. And they didn't heckle you. But they plotted good shots. And then there was, I mean, they were stacked deep.

It didn't matter which group it was. So that was a really fun event. Honestly, when I thought, live was really going to take off was the first year Miami Dural event. The crowds were incredible, and it was really like a team feel, and you had two guys playing match play, then you had the four ball between the two others. I thought that event was amazing. I thought it was fun. They needed to incorporate maybe one or two of those throughout the schedule, maybe even three. I just thought,

I actually thought that I saw the team camaraderie. I saw guys pulling for each other. I saw fans actually engaging in the, you know, in the team, in the team thing and getting behind certain, certain matches and certain players. So I was like, okay, this really does have some legs. And we've, in player meetings, we'd always talked about adding more of those events because the first year at Derao was such a success. And obviously, there's only still one. So I don't, like I said, I haven't been in any conversations. I know talking to the guys that the new CEO, Scott is doing a great job. Everybody really likes them.

So I know that they're going to come up with some new creative ways to, you know, grab new audiences. And I, but it just goes back to the US TV deal. I don't know how you get a big. TV deal if a number of your events are tape delayed. Yeah, that's fair. That's above my pay grade. I would ask the same question. Like, I don't know.

Yeah, I think that's just logic, yeah. Yeah. I think one thing that I've learned is obviously you like the team aspect. Like for me, like, it's really not for me. Like I love the Ryder Cup. Presence Cup is what it is. But like team golf is every couple of years and it's, it's fantastic. But it sounds like the sticking point between

PGA Tour and Liv coming together is Yasser really wants to keep the team aspect together. How important do you think that is? Or is that something that maybe like, I always thought like the team thing could be like during the fall series, like when football is going on. But like the main thing, like you grew up wanting to play on the PGA tour, playing individual golf. This team thing was never really a thing.

But for them, it's a big sticking point right now. Yeah. I, so I mean, it's still very individualized over there, right? I mean, it's still stroke played. Now, this year, it's been voted on that all four scores count every day. So I think it's still got that individualized, like, golf mentality, and it's still a grind. But I think it is kind of cool to have that team component. Yeah, like you said, maybe the fall, but let's be serious.

Nobody wants to go against football. Nobody's watching off in the fall. It's just, it is what it is. Like, it's a proven fact. Like, nobody's watching golf. And that's why some of this, I mean, how this came up. Like we were sitting around and, you know, our FedEx Cup season started over in September. And I mean, if you weren't top 20 in the world, you were playing some events in the fall up to Thanksgiving.

And it's just like, man, there's not a break. So that was intriguing. And I do like the team aspect. Like the Zurich, you can look at the Zurich and it was at such a bad part of the schedule. in the PJ tour schedule, but a great venue in New Orleans. And they went to a two-man deal. And I mean, in January, guys are teaming up

and talking about what they're doing. They're playing practice rounds, testing another, you know, their partner's ball. Like, you're kind of getting ready for it. I mean, team golf's fun. Like, now, is it something that needs to be in place every event? I don't know. But I really enjoyed playing that event.

down in Durow the first year having that team aspect and I wish they would have incorporated a number of events kind of like that but I'm also a traditionalist

like a purist of the game like I love the 72 holes you know go and compete and grind it out so I wish they kind of had a mixture of both to be honest with you and I know that's John Rom Rom is actually pushed

for 72 holes over at Live some guys are going to you know, had some pushback, but I know there has been a group that has pushed for 72 holes, for sure. Yeah, I think with Team Golf, like, it's hard to just trot something out day one and be like, everyone love this. You know, like it's going to take time. And years down the road, team golf could play a bigger role than professional golf than it does right now. But, HUD, I want to ask you this because I had a number of friends that jumped from PGA Tour to live, Colt did the same thing. And like, when they jumped, when I heard, I called them,

congratulate him. I was like, dude, that's awesome way to go. I want everyone to make the most money, make the best decisions for themselves. But the media, I feel like around golf, created a ton of dissension between like PGA fans, live fans, right at the very beginning. I feel like it's kind of softening now. But for you personally, did you notice any change in your friendships or relationships with tour players, forget fans, but players once you made that jump? Yeah, it was, yes, big time. That was, that was. That was, That was the toughest part. I mean, some of good friends, yeah, saw some true colors.

And I mean, time heals everything. Don't get me wrong. I mean, I have my reasons why I ended up, you know, making that decision. But it, yeah, definitely there are some friendships fractured and definitely just changed. I don't talk to, you know, there's definitely a handful of guys that I don't talk to like I used to. not nearly as close. But, you know, time heals everything, and we'll see kind of how, you know, things shake up there.

I feel like between, yeah, as I'm going to say, between the players, I think it has softened. Like, I don't think there's near as much tension as there used to be. Yeah, no, there's not. They're definitely had it. Everything is definitely softened in that. I just think kind of the overall group, like, people probably just aren't as close as they used to be with some guys that stayed versus, you know, left. And I was close with a number of guys over there that didn't like my decision.

And we're all still buddies. But the friendships and the dynamics have definitely changed a little bit because of that. Yeah. And I think that sucks. It's unfortunate. It sucks. It's a decision that doesn't affect him, you know. But I agree.

Like time, as you said, time heals all wounds. And I think things are starting to get back to a much better place. One last thing before we get to the United, I want to ask about because one of the rumors going around when Liv first came about is like, you know, these guys are getting $10, $20, $50, $100 million. And as far as it relates to like the purse when you play well, some guys, the rumor was is they're not getting any money, any more money from what they're plus they're guaranteed money. Like they're kind of working against it, right? Like if you got $100 million, you had to earn $100 million on the golf course before you started getting money. Was there any truth to that at all? No. There was no truth to that.

Interesting. Okay. A lot of bullshit fly around. Everybody, yeah, I mean, you had to have that narrative, right? The golf media had to create a narrative that is not a viable product. It's not a good product. And any way that we can kind of harm them, we will. But no, there was no truth to that at all. Because I don't think too many guys would have signed up for that, to be honest with you.

You know, these media people suck. Fake news. Everybody, but you and kids, right? That's right, kids. Actually, kids, I reached out to kids about some stuff. He wanted me to ask you some hard-hitting real estate questions. Oh, boy. Let's talk cap rates.

I actually got one last question. One last question before we go. I want to know, like, because you go over there, I'm sure there's a bunch of dudes on Live at the time when you made the switch that you weren't close with or that you didn't know or hadn't played much golf with. Give me one or two guys that when you made the move got to know them. You're like, this guy's fucking awesome. Matt Jones and I became really close through the live move.

Yeah, I mean, I was close with Harold. I played a lot of college golf against Taylor Gooch, and we were buddies but didn't hang out quite as much as we did on live, hung out a ton with him on live, got closer with Phil. I mean, these guys were around all the time. There wasn't crowds during practice rounds. There wasn't crowds during pro-AMs. So those guys were around a lot more.

I mean, Brooks was a couple years younger than me. Played at Florida State. I grew up in Tallahassee, so I knew Brooks for a long time. I played against Dustin for a long time and Amerig Golf and whatnot. But it was just kind of like a traveling fraternity. I mean, everybody was staying pretty much at the same places and going to eat. So it got to know kind of the whole. group as I mean really and you don't really have that on the PGA tour because there's a lot more

options right some guys rent houses some guys stay here but when you're in a foreign country like you're at a really nice hotel and we've got a number of the floors rented out and we've got a you know player area and everybody's eating dinner together I would say I got to you know be a lot closer with Lee Westwood and those guys that you know that yes I've played with talked to but hadn't really shared a meal with, shared stories with. So it was awesome having the, you know, different generations of guys just telling stories and when they were first on tour about, you know, older generations. I thought that part was cool.

And then you had guys that have never played in a tour event listening to Phil Mickelson tell stories, listening to Lee Westwood, Dustin, you know, Brooks. I mean, it was a lot more engaging in that manner. So everybody became pretty close because we were all on this one island that had a black cloud over it in the golf game and golf world. So we all kind of just stuck together and, you know, we had a good time traveling with each other. Why can't it be like the good old days where everyone got along, you know, shared a bedroom at the Burke's house right across the street. I mean, those are good times. Good times in the Northeast Hamer.

How good were the Burks? Me and HUD shared a room together, Sleas. Oh, yeah? How is he at the roommate, HUD? terrible but what are you talking about you snore so loud we had great times at the

Burke's house like I would never take I would never trade any any amateur days for anything I think it was probably the best time those were the best Miss Burke said listen there's a cooler in the basement I'm not saying you can have it I'm not saying you can't but just do whatever you want

just letting you know there is a cooler there is a cooler down there it's stopped oh man Am golf jicky Jats all the good shit man back in the days. The good time. Warming up in the basement and just sending it off the first team. Nothing better.

Everything was so simple back then, Cole. God, it was. It was so simple. So, but all right, let's get to the E9 here. Sleaze, I'm going to let you start it off. All right, HUD. I'm going to give you the option on this one. We kind of bounce around this first question.

I'm going to give you pick one of the two. Or you can do both. I need to know Hudson Swofford's childhood crush. Since you're married man with children, I won't ask current. Although, if you have a current, feel free to throw it out. Or a movie being made about your life, who plays you? I think I have that answer, too, by the way. Who?

I actually got one for him, too. I think that would play him. So childhood crush or actor? Or both? Ooh. I mean, childhood crush, man. That was when Nickelodeon was. Oh, yeah.

Some viable options on Nickelodeon. Actually, there was, as you. I feel like you're nervous to answer this question. Yeah, I mean, a wife with three kids. This is childhood. Back in the day. Yeah, it is back in the day. I mean, Kelly Kapowski was saved by the bell.

Yeah. I mean, I woke up every Saturday and definitely watched. If you didn't, there was something wrong with you. If you're like, if you're like, if you're, yeah, I mean,

you did love Kelly Kapowski, then your something's off. I mean, it was, it was pretty incredible. Sleez, who would you have said to, uh,

to play him in a movie? Don't know his name. Don't know his name off the top. The dude from Shawshank Redemption. Uh, okay. Don't know his name. I don't either.

Yeah. Andy DeFrame. We know him. Greatest movie of all time, maybe. Or one, you know, it's one of the greatest. Yeah.

I was going to say, Luke Wilson, I feel like could pull off your look. Yeah, he could. Oh, yeah, Luke. I was thinking the other one. Yeah. Yeah. No, Luke. For sure, yeah. All right. Next one, this is an easy one.

Just five years from now. Are we all back together or does Liv still exist? I mean, I hope there's something that's integrated, to be honest with you. But I don't know because I know PGATor wants to play a little bit shorter schedule one condensed. Like they don't want to go up against, they want to start around the Super Bowl. They want to end before college football. So how many weeks do you really have between there that

the two can exist? Here's, yeah, here's my thought on this. And I agree with you like about the off season. Like golf fans aren't ever starved for golf because it's basically 50 weeks here. Like they have like two weeks off in December and then boom, we're right back. Like make the golf fan get excited. Like we're counting down the days till football starts. So why not end? football. Exactly. So why not end, you know, August, maybe early September and have a few months off where everyone's like, you know what? I haven't watched professional golf in several months. I cannot wait for the century. I cannot wait for Hawaii to get going and these guys be back to playing. They're never starved for it. That's why I feel like the ratings are never what they could be. I totally agree. Maybe you end, maybe the season goes a little bit longer. It does overlap with college football and NFL and you end, you know, the end of September. But it's done. There's no really. talks about it. If you do have an injury, you can have some time to get it addressed versus middle of the season and you're just sitting out and then you come back at the tail end of the season.

There needs to be downtime. Every sport has downtime and the fans get fired up about it again. But it just, it's a saturated product. Yep. Fair. All right. Since college football came up there, I know you're a big fan. This one involves college football, okay?

And since you're in the business world now, I got a new business idea for you. I want to know if you're in or out, we can go 50-50 on this deal, but I think we make trillions on it, okay? We're going to start an Uber-type service, private driving service, but only for University of Georgia football players, since none of them can drive themselves without getting arrested. It seems like, do you want in? Absolutely. Say less. No, I definitely, I want my players to be on the field. Get them out the car.

They just had another one. I mean, I can't say that I made the best decisions when I was 18, 19, 20 years old. I mean, I was hanging out with Cole all the time. It's true. That's true. I was a good boy back then. But they're all driving. It's not even like a bar fight.

It's like they just can't get behind the wheel of a car without like thinking it's Grand Theft Auto or something. Yeah. You can tackle really well and drive like shit. George is the place for you. You can still make it. Anyways, I'll send you the prospectus on that, HUD, but we're going to make, we're going to retire off of this.

We're going to make money. We'll make money in that business venture. Okay. You're in. All right. We can stay on Georgia here because, I mean, Coach Hack has just produced so many great players. It feels like every other player on the PJ Tour went to the, or professional golf, went to the University of Georgia.

Give me your all time. this is back in college days all time top five Georgia Bulldog golf team. Damn, this is going to be a squad. You can't pick yourself. It's going to be a squad. Like the actual team or just the correct. You can pick them from any area and put them together. Well, you got to put Nick Cassini in there, a Walker Cupper.

He was a stud. Maybe struggled a little bit in the pro golf ranks. But, I mean, first team all-American. Yeah, this is just from college. like that pick. Yeah. Riuji Amata. Yeah, he was a beast.

God, I love that man. Yeah, I mean, he was one of the best college players. Their team won, one nationals, and he was a big part of that. So I'd say those two guys were on that team. Chris Kirk, I think, won 15 times, 15 times since the last two years in college. I mean, incredible college players. So definitely Kirky. I mean, Russell Henley had an incredible college career,

won the Haskins Award, played with him. I didn't know if he would ever miss a putt. He was the best putter I've ever seen. It was fun competing against him day in, day out. He made me a better player. That's four. It's a good team. One more.

Then you're between Harry and Harm. I mean, both of them. had incredible, incredible college careers and we're great teammates and great players. So I don't know if you can do just five. Yeah, you can't go wrong. I mean, you really can't. And then I played with a guy, I mean, close friend today, Adam Mitchell. I mean, Walker Cupper, like great, great, great college player.

So it, yeah, five's tough, man. Five is very tough. It is. I'll tell you a sneaky one, too, that I know was a big part of one of the national championships team that Richard Scott. Dickie. Very overlooked. One three Canadian amateurs and that's an unbelievable feat.

Like a great, another great college player and was an integral part of, you know, winning a national championship and winning multiple SEC championships. Yeah. I don't know, man. Honestly, it'd be tough. Maybe you bump Ruggie out. Sorry, Rugi. By the way, I've told you that I'm still mad at.

Wooji from like 2010 when we were on the corn fairy tour. We were down in Panama. And I was playing blackjack and he comes up and he's standing there. And he's got a cup. And I was like, oh, crown and ginger. He's like, you want to try it? I was like, yeah, sure. Took a little sip.

It was his dip cup. Oh, shit. That's, that's huge for you. That happens. I was like, you motherfucker, Ruggia. I still mad at him. Oh, man. God, I love that guy, though.

He's a beauty. Those are good names, dude. Richard Scott, Lil Dickie, before there was a little dicky. I forgot by it. I mean, he's great college player. Yeah. Yeah. Hackers had a lot of success.

Yeah. No question about it. That's a good team. You could pull five Georgia guys to get five different lineups completely, too. That's when you know you got some depth. Yeah, that's a tough one. All right. Tough one.

Next one, HUD. Kind of along the same lines, but Sea Island. It's a hub for all dudes down there in the southeast. All right. You're having a Ryder Cup. Sea Island Rider Cup. You're a captain. and you get number one pick in the draft.

Who's your first pick out of Sea Island? I'm taking that little angry Harmon. Yes, that little angry Harmon. I love that. He'd be it. Is he the best down there at Sea Island games? I'm not going to sit here and say, Harmon doesn't play a ton of games at home, to be honestly.

Patton probably plays more games than anybody and down there. but man i i've always loved harman's fire for the game and he's a fiery individual and it's it's fun competing against him i've competed against harman since he's 10 years old and uh went to school with him we've definitely butted heads but we've also been you know good friends for a long time so yeah he's a good one man the golf that he the golf that he's played the last couple years has been pretty incredible man he's in a game that's just dominated by power players. He has just had an unreal career. It's awesome. It's awesome. And a lot of it is that angry angriness in him. I mean, that fiery. Absolutely. Yeah, plays with that chip on his shoulder.

All right. Next one. Do you remember what you said to your caddy, DJ Nelson, before you tapped in for your first win out in Palm Springs? I do not. I reached out to DJ. He did a couple things. So you said you had two puts to win. You lagged it up to like a foot or so. It was obviously going to make it. you walked over to the side of the green before you put it, you go, I'm going to feel fucking terrible tomorrow. Yes, I do. Yeah, yes, yes, yes.

That's beautiful. I love that. And then I heard you called him at like 5.30 the next morning and said, do you want to go play Augustin National with me when we go? Which is awesome on you. That is fantastic. Yeah, that was a good trip. That was a good day.

Play with Jeff Knox and actually had my dad. So it was an awesome day. I heard you also called him a different name when you were mad, when you made a mistake or when you made a mistake. we're mad at him. Don. He goes by DJ, but what he's in trouble? He called him Don.

Correct. I always DJ, but it's Donald Nelson, and I would be like, Don, what are you doing? Don? Like when your parents use your middle name, it's like, oh, fuck. I messed up when they use my middle name. Stern whole name, and you're like, oh, man, what did I do? Damn, that's a problem. All right, I got two more here.

kind of a fun one because I've forgotten about this until I dug in a little bit. But how long did it take you to get over your PTSD from practice swings when your divot hit the ball at the cornfrey event and moved it? That was going to be one of mine says. I was going to say, are you the only person in history to get a penalty from directly behind the golf ball? There's what. Someone else has done it. Yeah. The same day at the BMW, Justin Rose did it. There it is. No way.

The same day. The same way? Like took a divot and hit the ball? Same way and I'm pretty sure it was the same day. That's incredible. On Sunday at BMW and 2012. And it was really not funny at that time, but I think my, I think my body language was a little better than Rosie's. Dude, I mean, you look like your dog just died when that happened. It did. I was tied for second place trying to get out to a card.

Divid hit the ball. I was like, I don't know if I'm disqualified, two stroke penalty, three stroke only. Like what just happened? Like what happened? I had to lay up on number 12 at Ohio State, par five. I had to replace the ball, one shot penalty. Ended up getting up and down. I finished just like tied for fifth or six and got my tour card that day.

So it's really funny now. But at the time, it was in my catty Ryan Balkom, he just, I mean, the expressions are. I mean, dude, your shoulders went to the ground. I mean, you were just like, what the fuck just happened? And by the way, what is that man doing nowadays? He was a beauty. He's one of the best, man. He's medical sales.

I drove him right into retirement like I did, DJ. He's in medical sales in Charlotte. Oh, that's good. That's a tough beat, dude. Those bent grass fairways, man, the things fly. What a shit rule, too, by the way, that that's a penalty. I'm always taking practice swings behind the ball. Yeah, God.

Yeah, you got to be careful on BitGra. Yeah, you don't worry about that. Yeah, it just explodes. No big deal. Yeah. That was beautiful. That and like Zach with his. the way, that's a penalty, but yet Zach taking those little rehearsals right by the ball and hitting

his ball off the tee all the time. No, no big deal. Just tee it back up. No big deal. Yeah. I give him a hard time on that. I'm like, dude, step a couple inches further back. What are you doing? Yeah. Did it twice at Augusta. I would just replay those for him. Oh, that's so good. Well, Sleeves, my last one was about the divot as well. So go ahead with your last one. All right. You're going to show up? No, let's do it this way. Who has the best chance of pulling off a wife swap without being noticed? You and Harrison, English or Chris Kirk and Brendan Todd. Me and Harry.

I mean, yeah, it's pretty good. Yeah, we get, our names get, everybody calls me Harris. I've gotten Harrison a lot and I just, and from crowds and I go, well, you're combining the two, so you're close. I mean, I would get, it's, it's incredible how much people get us confused. I mean, didn't Kirk and Webb Simpson like switch at an amateur? Yeah. At the Louisiana Amateur, I was actually.

staying with both of them in a house at the Azealia Amateur and they, I don't know, we had a rain delay or something and we were drinking beers and they might have gotten the idea. Let's just switch bags and close tomorrow. And I'm not as you. I was like, y'all have at it. I love it. It is tricky. It is very tricky.

It's tricky. I think they look more like when their golf clothes and honestly airs. They're legitimately hard to tell apart, even if you're like immersed in golf like we are. Like sometimes I'm like, hold on. Yeah, I just look for the walk like web, web is just so antsy going a million miles an hour. And Kirk's like, I'm in zero hurry to do anything. Correct. Kurt is definitely in chill mode. Yeah. Well, HUD, man, we appreciate you coming on with us. Been a blast catching up with you. Yeah. Giving us some insight on Live. That was awesome, man. Thank you so much. Absolutely. Thanks for having me, boys. Good to see you all.

All right. That was Hudson Swoffer joining us on subpar. Before we react to that, please. There's just something about custom gear. It looks better, feels better, and let's be honest, it plays better. We recently made some birdie juice gear, and the whole process was seamless. Super easy to design, and they turned out sick. You can build your own setup too, hats, polos, hoodies, whatever you need, all from the top golf brands, and fully customized with your logo or design. So skip the off-the-rack stuff, head to shop.golf.com and make something your crew will actually want to wear. All right, Hudson Swofford. Pretty interesting story. He'd given us a little behind the scenes, what it's like over there at Live.

You know, a lot of people say they don't go over there. They don't work. It's all laid back. It's basically just a member guest. He said, look, everyone's out there grinding. Everybody's working hard. They take it very serious. It's obviously extremely different.

But I love just hearing from someone that's actually played it and been there for two seasons, what it was like over at Live. Yeah, like credit to Hudson for coming on. We saw him up in New York. He was all important. And he's like, we'll come in. We'll talk about the good, the bad. I wanted to give him a chance like, hey, he knows the narratives.

Everybody knows the narratives. Put him to bed or say there's validity. He put those to bed, which I was glad to hear. There was some things that I found interesting court, I guess, from the way I would think they would be going, from what it looks like, from where I stand. It looks like they're international events. You know, like we mentioned Australia, Mexico City, some of the ones in Europe. Like they seem to be well attended some of their bigger events.

And then when they come to the states, it's like not as much, I would say, minus maybe an event or two here or there. So I found it interesting that he's like, yeah, the goal was like a huge US TV contract where I feel like they would thrive like globally, pretty much from what I see, at least in Auckland. And what I see, by the way, is like from social media, which is, you know, 90% trash.

Exactly. No, but it was great, man. I love learning more about this stuff. It's interesting. Like he doesn't know his pathway back to the PGA tour. He's thinking possibly 2027. And he said, that's interesting how that lines up with when, the likes of Brooks Kepka and Bryson DeShambos contracts expire.

I don't know if that has anything to do with it. That's just kind of a theory he has. But love Hudson Swalfer, man, always rooting for him. He's such a good dude. He's a dog. And he's fun to hang out with, man. But let's get to. Let me ask you this just real quick,

since you brought it up, the 2027 thing with Liv. You're running the PJ Tour. 2027 comes along with some of these big-named guys from Liv, their contracts up and they express interest. Hey, I'd like to come back and play the PJ Tour. What do you do? Yeah, that's tough. I mean, obviously like Bryson and Brooks, they're major champions.

They would have status on the PGA tour. Some guys wouldn't. I mean, I think if you have status, yeah, you can come on back, especially. I mean, I think it's good for the game of golf. It's great for the PGA tour if they got the likes of Bryson DeShambo, Brooks Kepka, I mean, a Joaquin Neiman back. But I know it's not going to be just that simple. Like, hey, come on back.

Like, because you've got a lot of players over there that probably feel much differently than I do, but I don't know. I'm just looking for what's best for the game of golf, and I want the best in the world playing against each other as often as possible, like most people. I think the PGA Tour would be doing itself a disservice. If there's guys that have status over there on the PGA Tour, like the guys you mentioned, they didn't just welcome them back.

You got a chance to get the guys back. You got a chance to put more of the best players in the world on the PGA Tour. I think you do it. If players are sensitive about, hey, I had an offer and I didn't take it. Well, tough shit. You could have. If you got any beef with anybody, It's with the PGA tour.

They're the ones that implement the fines and the penalties and the things like that. I'd let them back with open arms and say, there you go. And if you don't have status, like you're welcome back, but you've got to qualify just like everybody else. Commissioner Slees. That's it. Do it. You look more like a police officer right now, but whatever. Look at this thing, bro.

It's so gross. I tell you what, it's about to go. I'm sad. It's been like a little week and a half maybe, but just for safety reasons. I can't go to the grocery store without just mobs of middle-aged women, throw themselves at me. It's really causing a riff around here. So I think this might be the last time you see it, but. Yeah, you can't go to the park. They ask you to kindly leave and quickly. Exactly. I'm just walking up to cars and saying, do you have any idea how fast you were going?

You're an idiot. All right, well, we might as well, we might as well make a pick. See if we can, we both hit two weeks ago. We both whiffed this past week. My man, Siwu just let me down. Jesus, Sea, you're better than that. No passion at all. But Memphis weekend either No Not only at top 20

They didn't even make the cut So let's see if we can bounce back Memphis TPC Southwind Really good golf course Going to be hot as shit They're going to go crazy low I'm going to tell you one Because we had Wyndham Clark

On the show earlier today Over on Sirius XM And he talked about You got to hit fairways At TBC Southwin It's a great course for ball strikers You get him at a top 10 At plus 230

One of the straightest shooters There is Russell Henley I thought for sure that we wouldn't have the same one because I was like we normally do top 20s I'm going to go top 10 I had literally everything you just said I had written down to say about Russell Henley plus two there it is

let's go with it let's say we it's one when we've both been on it I don't know but we're about to find out because we're going with it this week yeah and by the way fork executive top tens coming into this thing and he's well rested come on Rex as his buddy's calling

bring it home for us Mm-hmm. All right. There you have it. One bet this week, apparently. All right. Well, let's wrap this thing up. You got it. Big shout out to our folks at Zone Nicotine. We're going to have an event up there. I hope to see everyone there. But warning, this product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical. Underage sale is prohibited. Listen, when I need to dial things in on the course, I go with zone nicotine pouches. Why? One, stronger nicotine intensity. The others aren't even close. and two, better flavors. And three, they last longer and they're more comfortable than any other

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Hell yeah. Absolutely love it. All right. Thank you all for listening. We'll talk to you on next week's subpar.