Subpar - Jay Bilas Interview: Why Justin Thomas is his favorite player on Tour, closing down bars with the legendary Bill Raftery

Episode Date: June 21, 2022

On this week's episode of GOLF's Subpar, ESPN College Basketball analyst Jay Bilas joins former PGA Tour pro Colt Knost and jicky jack legend Drew Stoltz for an exclusive interview. The former Duke Blue Devil talks Coach K's pre-game speeches, being a member at Pine Valley and what it's like closing down the bar with Bill Raftery.  --- Thanks to our official sponsor Dewar's. Make sure to check out their Reserve Bar listings today: https://www.reservebar.com/collections/house-of-dewars  This week's episode is presented by FanDuel Sportsbook. If you've never tried FanDuel Sportsbook, what are you waiting for? Go to https://www.fanduel.com/subpar or download the FanDuel Sportsbook app to get started. Be sure to sign up with promo code SUBPAR so they know we sent you. Disclaimer: 21+ and present in AZ, CO, CT, IA, IL, NJ, NY, or WY. 1st online real money wager only. $10 first deposit required. Bonus issued as non-withdrawable site credit that expires 14 days after receipt. Restrictions apply. See full terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling Problem? Call 1-800-NEXT-STEP or text NEXTSTEP to 53342 (AZ), Call 1-800-522-4700 (CO), 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat (CT), 1-800-GAMBLER or visit FanDuel.com/RG (NJ, IA, IL), 1-877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY(467369) (NY), or 1-800-522-4700 (WY).

Hello world. Welcome back to golf subpar. Colt Nost and Drew Stoltz. Coming off an incredible 122nd United States Open where Matt Fitzpatrick outlast Scotty Schephler and Will Zalotaurus to get the job done. Sleys, that week, that's what professional golf is all about. That was so much fun to watch. That's what a U.S. Open should look like and that's what it did look like. I mean, that back nine, just going down the stretch, it was awesome to have three guys. It's a three-man race pretty much turned into. There were times in the back nine where I was pretty convinced. all three different guys were going to win. I thought it was Scotty Shefflers as he made his way into the back nine after that four under on the front nine. Then early in the back nine, when Zaltors made the turn, that two-stroke swing on 11,

I thought it was his. And late in the game, we saw Fitzpatrick come away with it. But it wasn't just like full-on survival. There were a lot of bogeys out there, but there were also some unbelievable shots going back and forth between those guys. It was spectacular. It was about as good as I think you could turn out from Brookline. I heard zero complaints about the golf course to set up any of that type of stuff.

and you ended up getting a dude that probably should have won. I mean, any one of those three could have, but he earned that thing. That shot on 18 where I thought he was dead in the water after hitting that three wood behind the finger to pull that thing off, man. It was just, I was just a hell of a week to watch golf, dude. It was awesome. And that's how it should be. It's a major championship. The stars rose to the top, and we had a battle.

And you could see it wasn't, they weren't playing for the money. They were playing for the pride of being a major champion. And it was so cool to see. I mean, it was, you know, with all these. this other nonsense going on in the world of golf right now, I thought that was going off of what happened in Canada, where you had three stars battling it out on Sunday to lead into this. I thought this is exactly what golf and the PGA tour needed at this exact moment. Yeah, Canada was unbelievable. Then you go into this week, that was about as good of a turnout

as you could have possibly had. I was real interested going in a week, like, what if one of these defect guys, one of one of the live guys gets into contention, pretty much none of them were a factor at all. I think there was, what, 17 of them in the field and only, A few of them, a handful of them played the weekend. Dustin was too under for the first day. But none of them were an issue. Dude, we were out there all week, more or less. And just seeing those guys, take Phil out because he's like the face.

And I think he was just dreading this week for the entire time. I think he just wanted to get off property as quick as possible. But it seemed like the vibe was a little bit different with a lot of those guys. Like they were kind of hitting balls next to each. It was almost like an us versus them type of a deal. And it just felt different with some of those guys that went over there and played London. Because it is different. Yeah, it's just, but you could like sense it.

You could feel it out there. But go back to Matt Fitzpatrick real quick because, I mean, here's a guy who won the U.S. Ameter in 2013, joins Jack Nichols as the only male golfer to win the USAM and the U.S. Open on the same golf course. Jack did it at Pebble Beach. Now Matt Fitzpatrick at the country club. But, you know, we talk, you got to play great golf, but you also have to have some things go your way as well. And you look coming down the stretch on Sunday. The tee shot on 15, which he missed miles right.

I ended up hitting a guy, ended up looking like it was on a tee sitting over there in the trampled down rough. Zal Torres misses the fairway by five, six yards. yards. He's absolutely screwed. Patrick was able to hit a five iron from 2.25 to about 15, 18 feet. Make it for birdie. Huge two-shot swing right there. And then the T-shot on 18, he overhooked the three wood. And it looked like from the first camera angle we saw when it just showed the ball, it's like, oh, he's dead. This is pitch out. But it ended up being he was just far enough to the left that he was able to hit a cut nine iron from 159, which as a guy who sucks out of

a fairway bunker shots. That was so cool to see because that shot is so hard and to control the distance, control the flight, everything. It was awesome to watch. He had two fantastic shots when he got great breaks. That's what you got to do. You got to take advantage of the breaks, and he did it. Yeah, the one on 15 was the one I'm going to point to at the end of the week. It was like, Matt, like you said, missed it by a wide margin, perfect lie, clean line, like you said, on the T. But to go and then make Bertie out of there from 220 hits the five iron and makes Bertie. I thought at the time I was like, all right, well, Will's going to struggle to make four. If it's probably going to have a pretty easy four, maybe it gives up one. But to give up two there and then,

God damn. I mean, Zalotaurus comes back with that laser on 16. Stuffs it in there. Makes that putt, too, which a lot of people talking about is putting. I am the ringleader for Will Zalotaurus putts plenty good enough to win a major championship. This is his third runner-up. His second back-to-back. He's about two inches overall from being a back-to-back major champion. I'm just kind of done with the whole Will Zalotaurus doesn't put it well enough. There's a few little glitchy strokes there, the one on eight from two feet where he was cleaning it up. Gave me a little bit of pause, but dude, it's good enough. He's done it too many times.

And for whatever reason, the major championships seem to be the toughest greens. He puts better on those than he does on a normal week. He's top 10 in the last three major championships in putting. You know, he's 1.30 on the PJ Tour and regular events, which is crazy because you think, you know, it's, it's, the greens are harder. They're faster. They should be more difficult to put, but he seems to shine under those moments, which is awesome to see. And it was his driver, really, like, he said it in his press conference afterwards. He's like, look, if you're going to look back and look at a reason why I didn't win today, it was my driver.

He's like, look at 12, look at 13, which he ended up making the incredible save after Fitz drops the bomb. Then you go into 15. There's another one that cost him. Like, it was the driver that was costing the shots. It wasn't the putter. So I'm done with the whole Wills Aal Taurus. I don't care what it looks like. He gets it in the hole from short distances.

Everybody's going to have some misses in majors. But like I said, dude, he's two inches away from us being like back-to-back wins for Wills Aal Taurus in major championships. Like, it's all there. I felt really bad for him. And I hope that he gets one soon because that's what, six out of nine officially and eight if you don't count the WD at the open. Yeah. And speaking of the driver, my God, Matt Fitzpatrick, the work he has done with Sosho McKenzie,

who we had on our Sirius X-M show this week, and among others, his whole team, to pick up the speed he has and not lose any accuracy. I mean, here's a guy who has 178. We saw on number five when he was the only guy to drive it on the hole on that Sunday, 181 ball speed is so incredible. I mean, this guy's picked up 30 to 40 yards off the T. It's a total game changer for him. He was number two in strokes gained off.

the T this week at the U.S. Open? 17th or 16th in distance. Fifth in accuracy, so he's always been a stray driver, but he's gotten a lot longer and hasn't sacrificed any accuracy. On top of that, he was number one in greens and reg. How about 17? 17 greens and rag on a Sunday at a U.S. Open. When you gain that and you don't sacrifice accuracy, just the entire game becomes easier.

I mean, he was talking about it earlier in the year. He's like, I was in Abu Dhabi. The ball was going miles. And he's like, this is when I felt like I was hitting in my longest. And he's like, I shot 62 in a practice shot there. and I didn't feel like I did anything. I just hit it down the fairway. I flipped the edges on the green and made puss.

And that's what these guys that win all the time due to every golf course, more or less. That's what Rory does when he drives it well. That's what DJ did when he was winning all this stuff. Brooks, same thing. It's just game changer. But he's done it. He didn't try to do it overnight. He did it in like a three, four year span.

But now that he's got that pop and watching him swing it, dude, like he's still got the quick tempo. The swing looks the same. I don't expect to see 179, 180 ball speed when it comes up on the monitor. And damned if it isn't there. But that's a complete game changer. He's like, it's like Matt Fitzpatrick 2.0 now compared to what he's been, you know, for the last, you know, ever since he turned pro, really. Well, look, I mean, I know stats don't always tell the story, but if you look at strokes game total, which puts all the major stats together, he was number one all year, fell to number two after Canada when Rory won.

But I believe he's back at number one again. So when you break it all down, like, he's arguably, he's number 10 in the world now, but he's playing the best of anyone in the world. I mean, Scotty Sheffler's playing fantastic golf, continues to contend week in and week out. but when Matt Fitzpatrick, who's a very analytical guy, looks at those stats, he's got to be like, holy shit, I'm one of the best players in the world right now. Yeah, the numbers, you can say whatever you want. Like, metrics don't lie.

There's no bias in metrics. And I don't know what this stack system is. We just had Sasha on this morning. I need it. I need another. Guess who's ordering one? I need to go from 111 to 120 real quick, just like that. I might have to return.

That's what I need for that USGA four ball next year. But he's a beast, dude. He's sending it now. I got some news for you here, if you're ready for it. Feed me. Which maybe you can be the, the commentator for this. Yep.

Myself, Sosho McKenzie works alongside Mark Blackburn, who's the coach of golf subpar. Okay? Correct. Mark and I have decided we're going all in on a speed gaining mission. For you?

For the gravy? For the gravy. We're going to see how fast from start to finish. Where are we right now? About 102 is going to be. 102 are we? Okay.

So where are we trying to get? I told him if you can get me over 110, this would be a game changing issue. Not that I want to start playing golf again. I just think it'd be a lot of fun. But maybe. But maybe. We've been talking today.

We're having a meeting on Thursday about this. We're going to document the whole thing. And it's going to be straight speed sesh for gravy. Wow. The gravy quest for speed. This is going to be, or just more speed. If you gets you from one of, A, you're going to have to do a lot of shit. Like, it's like workouts and all the type of stuff.

I got a lot of time. It's not just like lay on the couch and read something. But I got four events left on CBS. And then it's break time. I'm going to be very interested in this. If he gets you from 102, wherever you're out right now, to over 110, this thing is going to need an IPO because it is going to explode. If they get you to 110, 111, somewhere in there.

If it works, I'm going to get in on that. But, dude, you're going to have to, like, do some shit. It's not just laying around. I'm ready. All right. I understand that. When does this begin? We have a meeting Thursday.

We're going to be discussing all we need to do to get it right, but I'm all in on this. Don't let this affect your hybrid game, dude. Don't in the quest for distance allow Gary to go. I know I'm going to be hitting six iron, seven iron instead of hybrids and all. You might have to dump some hybrids and start getting. long irons. Yeah, so be careful what you wish for. I'm going to be a very popular member guest partner if I get this thing over 110. But no doubt about it, this is the difference between Matt Fitzpatrick five years ago and Matt Fitzpatrick now is like everything else can stay the same if you're hitting

two clubs less than to every green. Not only do you get longer off the tee, but your irons are going further too. It's just, fuck. I mean, it's not a secret, dude. The game's just a lot easier, but he did it over time and didn't sacrifice any accuracy along the way. Well, get ready because it's coming. Holy shit. And the 120 second U.S. Open has concluded and the champion has been crowned. Dewars, the official Scotts Whiskey of the U.S. Open and the most awarded blended Scotch whiskey in history is proud to congratulate the winner of this prestigious tournament, Matt Fitzpatrick. We're also proud to announce the limited release, 2022 Dewar's 19-year-old Champions Edition, double-aged, then finished in New American Oak and First Fill Ryecast for a profile

as rich and complex as the game we all love. The 19-year-old Champions Edition is a truly remarkable experience, worthy of raising a glass to the glory of the U.S. Open and the champions it created. Please join us in celebrating the winner as we look forward to next year's tournament at the Los Angeles Country Club. Here's to great scotch whiskey, here's to golf, and here's to celebrating the best of the best

in every regard. Matt Fitzpatrick, congratulations. By the way, I'm surprised they have any of this whiskey left after what you did to it up there. Bud. At Bar Amour. Bud. Our cheers moment of the week.

I went a little heavy on the doers, bro. I was these high balls. I was putting high balls down like I was John Morant. They were just floating them up there. I was putting them down. I sucked down more doers that night than I think I have in the last year combined. I was feeling no pain. Feeling good, though, dude.

If you're going to do it, drink it with the classiest scotch in the game. You know what I mean? I was classy around that joint. That 19-year-old is nice. Oh, my God. Very mature as most 19-year-olds are. Exactly, dude. That's the thing.

I don't know how they get them so mature so quick. But I was sucking those bad boys down. Do you remember the Avalanche one at night? I was one. My team, you know what I mean? I've been on them all year. Hell of a night out of Baramore, though, by the way. Shout out to them for hosting us.

And everybody that showed up, Roger Steele in the house, too. By the way, he ain't afraid to drink little doers either. It's not Andrez Gonzalez. It was a lot of fun. Baramore was fantastic. Boston was incredible. Y'all showed up. We had a blast.

We also had a blast with our guest this week. If you're into college basketball, you're going to like this one. Even if you're not, you're going to like this one. Listen to the cool dudes. This is a cool dude right here. He loves his basketball. He loves his golf. He loves his cocktails.

Jay Billis joins us on. golf subpar. Yeah, I was looking forward to this for a while. I've not met Jay personally, but tons of people that I know, friends in the business, like to a man, they're like one of my favorite people in the world. I was like, God damn, this Jay sounds like a hell of a dude. It turns out they were right. They were. This one was a lot of fun. But before we get to Jay Billis, please, if you want to go tee it up, you're going to try to win the S Open, you've got to have a golf ball to do it. Once you get on this stack system, bud, and you use the TP5 or TP5x, you're going to be dangerous. Get down. This is what you do. This is what you do with these balls.

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Stack plus TP5 or 5X. Game over. Send it. Hello. Load up on some Taylor made golf balls, free shipping. Use that code subpar. All right, here we go. Jay Billis on golf subpar. All right, we've got a man of many talents with us here today. Former four-year starter for the Duke Blue Devil basketball team, two-time national champion as an assistant coach. Now a college basketball analyst with ESPN where he's been nominated for multiple Emmys. And on top of that, also a licensed attorney. But other than that, I hadn't really done shit with his life. But we're going to talk to him anyway.

Jay Billis, what up? How are you, bud? I'm doing great. Thank you guys for having me on. God, get a hobby, dude. Maybe do something with your life, huh? Yeah, well, aside from golf, drinking and basketball, I don't have much else to do. I got two of those three things, God.

We're just golf and drinking. The basketball I stay away from. Not really built for that. That's the life. I want to go, because you mentioned the assistant coaching thing. We can go, I want to go through your whole career, but I got to dive into this assistant coaching thing real quick, because you spent three years there under Coach K, you go to three finals games and you went two of them.

Do you have the best record ever? And you're just like, shit, I can't do anymore. I'm out of here. That's basically what I told Coach K is the program really went the toilet after I left. So I was playing pro basketball overseas. I was playing in Italy. And Coach K had called. I had applied to law school.

My dad encouraged me to do it because he figured if I played 10 or 12 years over there, that I wouldn't go back to law school and I'd be some, you know, Schlep doing nothing, which sounds pretty good right now. But so when I applied to law school, Coach Cave found out about it. And he called me and offered me a spot on his staff. And he said, look, if you get into law school, will you accept that? And I said, well, yeah. But, I mean, you know, and it was his idea that I do both at the same time.

So I coached while I was in law school. And the first year, I don't think I slept more than three hours a night because I was so scared. But then I found out it really wasn't that big of a deal. So it wound up being a really good thing for me to do. But at that time, I wasn't that interested in being a lawyer. I really just wanted to get the education, get the degree, and then stay in coaching. But after my third year as an assistant there started, I got engaged. And my wife really didn't want to live a coach's life because it entailed moving every few years.

And she probably thought that it would be moving because I would get fired. But so we just decided to go the route of what she considered to be more stability. And I figured, you know, it was a weed decision, not a me decision. It was just me. I would have stayed with coaching. But it was more about what we wanted to do. And we're lucky and worked out, worked out halfway decent for us. If it wasn't 30 years ago and Coach Kay was a lot younger at this point, obviously,

if he didn't have such a long runway ahead of him, would you have thought about maybe riding it out and being his successor at Duke? Well, it would have been a long ride if you wanted to do that because he stuck around for 42 years. You know, it's funny when I was coming out of high school, I grew up in Los Angeles in an area called Rolling Hills. And, you know, I had a really, really lucky had a great high school team with all my best friends. and we just, we didn't have very good coach. And it was kind of miserable from that standpoint.

So all I really cared about when I was making my college decision was, who am I going to play for? Like, what coach do I want to play for? And Coach K of the guys I came down to was the least experience, the least well-known, and the least accomplished. And there was just something about him that I wanted to play for him. And so I chose Duke, not necessarily because of Duke. It was very little about the school.

It was all about him, frankly. And if you had told me when I was playing for him that, you know, I'm playing for the greatest coach of all time, you know, I probably would have done a double take saying, really? I mean, John Wooden's pretty good. And, you know, Dean Smith's pretty good. But, you know, it really kind of amazes me that I was lucky enough with my teammates to get in on the ground floor of arguably the greatest coaching career of all time. And I count myself as extraordinarily grateful that I was there then. And I probably learned more about basketball in those three years than I did in all the years leading up to it. And broadcasting has helped me build on it, frankly, because I'm around in meetings and practices and film sessions with all the best coaches now. And so I've learned that Coach Kay's way was a great way, but it's not necessarily the only way. And so I think my experience in the game has been more varied as a result of broadcasting than it would have been if I had just stayed in coaching. That's crazy that you got him that early on, that he, you know, you didn't think he would go on to be that. What were some of the other schools you were looking at?

What were your like final three choices? I came down to Coach Kay at Duke, Jim Beheim at Syracuse, and both of them up until this last year were still going. Lute Olson was in Iowa at the time. And then a guy named Ted Owens is just a wonderful gentleman. He's in his mid-90s now at Kansas. So it would have been one of those four places. And oddly enough, so I came down, I took visits to Duke, Syracuse, and Iowa, and I had my last visit scheduled to Kansas with Coach Owens. And Coach Kay called me like three days before I was going to take my Kansas visit.

And he was pretty stern with me. He said, where are you in your decision? Like, I need to know. And I said, well, I'm leaning towards Duke. And he says, what does that mean? What are the percentages here? And, you know, I was 17 years old. I didn't know.

I hadn't gotten it down to percentages. So I started making shit up. And I was saying, well, I'm 75% Duke and I'm X percent Syracuse and I'm X percent Iowa. And he goes, well, where does that leave Kansas? He says, yeah, like 2% left. And I was like, oh, geez. And he goes, look, he goes, that would be dishonest of you to take that visit to Kansas if that's where you are in the process. He says, I know if I were at 2%, I wouldn't want to waste my time with you.

And so I was like, geez, I don't want to be dishonest. So I called Coach Owens and I told him I was sick and couldn't take the visit. So in order to be honest, I lied to Coach Owens about why I couldn't visit. So I always lay and we still, I saw Coach Owens last time. I saw him a couple years ago and I told him that story. And I'm like, geez, you know, I really wanted to take the visit because, you know, I loved him. And obviously Kansas is a great place. But Coach Kate talked me out of it.

He used his Spengali stuff even back then. And you had to help him win that third consecutive softball championship or whatever. that letter he was. I read that letter that he sent you. He was like, look, you can come to Duke for a lot of reasons, but most importantly, I need you to help me win this third, this third championship in a row on the softball field. Yeah, and I did help him. I mean, I was a total ringer because some of the other guys, some of the other guys he recruited couldn't play dead on a baseball field. I think Johnny Dawkins held the bat with his hands, like, totally separated.

And I'm like, have you never held a bat before? I guess I've never played baseball before. I'm going, you're kidding me. How could you grow up in America and not play baseball? But he would have been wasting his time as great of a basketball player as he was. Of all the time you spend around Coach K, whether it be as a player or as an assistant, is there like maybe a halftime speech or a pregame speech that stuck out to you? Well, yeah, there are a lot of them.

He was not always firing brimstone, but he could feel the pain off the walls when he wanted to. Like when we weren't playing well, he would come in there and raise. hell with us. My favorite one was my freshman year before we played Louisville. And that was back when Louisville was the Doctors of Dunk. You know, they played Houston in the semifinals in the final four. And, you know, there's a dunk fest with Flaima Jamma. And, you know, we were underdogs. We started all freshmen. And so, you know, we had not played well coming into that game. And we'd lost a few. And all of a sudden, the lights go out in the locker room right before we're about to go out on the floor and we're thinking, geez, they didn't even pay the light bell. Like this were falling apart.

And all of a sudden, you could see this flickering light down the hallway. And he comes in with a candle in front of his face. So all you could, it was pitch dark. And all you could see was his face like hovering in the middle of the room. And, and all he said was with this candle, he said, I came not to praise Louisville, but to bury them. And then blew the candle out. And all of started screaming and jumping up in the middle of the room. We went out on the floor and we played a great first half. We shot like 60% in the first half. And then he didn't do anything at halftime.

He just said, hey, we're doing, you know, we're doing well. Keep doing this. Keep doing that. Then they kicked our ass in the second half. So he probably should have brought out a candle at halftime. That might have been helpful. That's awesome. I never would expect Coach Kay to be like the, not a gimmick, but you know what I mean?

Like the rah, rah, let's pull up all the stops here to get my guys going. He does that. Yeah, he does that from time to time. I mean, I wasn't there for this one. But later on, I had been told by a player later, I mean, it must have been in 2005 or later, where he came into the pregame speech and he was wearing like boxing gloves and a robe like, you know, Rocky and came in there and gave a speech and that kind of thing. He didn't do it very often, but, but he can, you know, he can reach into his bag of tricks when he wants to. He's really good with motivation and inspiration. But his best stuff was not necessarily the rah-rah stuff.

It was more when he could reach you on a like get into your heart. And he did that on a number of occasions where, I mean, he was stirring. And he used to have this thing. I mean, he probably still does. But he calls it chills, but I call him goosebumps. And he'd be talking about winning. And my seat in the locker room was actually right in front of him, which sometimes is good and sometimes not so good.

But, you know, so I could, I was literally right next to him. And he would be waxing poetic about winning a championship or whatever it was and how we were going to do. And he got goosebumps on his arms and legs. And you're like, okay, you can't fake that. Like, this is real. He's not making this up. It's not, it's not BS. That's incredible.

I can't imagine what it's like playing for him. I don't feel like you'd be the most intimidating boxer, though, when he walked in. I don't know if that'd really get me going. Fill out the robe quite like that. But he'd probably take a swing in me for saying this. But back then, he was pretty fiery. And so it didn't happen very often, but I certainly remember one time when he basically said, you know, he was kind of questioning our toughness and our manhood as individuals and his team.

And he said one time, he goes, you might not think of it, but he goes, I'll fight you. You go, I'll fight every one of you. And you may beat me up, but you'll have to kill me. Like, you'll have to kill me. And a lot of us were thinking, we would kill you. Yeah. Yeah. Not only would, and right now, we want to.

Yeah. Yeah, that's fantastic. Let me ask you one more question about Duke coaching because John Shire's taking over the helm now. Is that the best job in the world because he's getting the keys to a Ferrari? Or is that the toughest gig in the world because it's like coming on stage after Chappelle. Like you know no matter what you do, you can't live up to the guy before you. Yeah, that's a good question. I think it's both.

I mean, I said this before Coach K. retired. I thought it was going to be the hardest act to follow in the history of sports. Not just because of the success, but I grew up in L.A. and John Wooden, when I was a little kid, John Wooden was the king. And when he retired, that was an incredibly difficult act to follow. Bear Bryant, the same. You can name a bunch of these different coaches. But John Wooden didn't do all his work on television.

And with the Internet, Coach K did. Like, his entire career was on television. And Duke was from the time I played there when we, got to be number one. We were the most televised team in basketball history, our senior year and had the most national TV appearances and all that stuff. And obviously, that's changed since I'm Scott even bigger. So, you know, there are so many people that have gone through the system that didn't know a world without Coach K being the biggest deal in it in basketball. And so John has to deal with that. But it is, if not the best job in basketball, it's in the top five.

and I think John Shire is uniquely qualified to handle it. One, because of his demeanor, he's unflappable. And the other attributes, like he's a great X and O coach. He's technically skilled and he's able to reach people on a granular level. It's impossible to say that anybody can match up to Coach K. But that's not really the issue. I think John will be able to blaze his own trail and do it his own way. And I think people will be accepting of it. It's kind of like, you know, when Bill Guthridge and

later on, Roy Williams followed Dean Smith or now Hubert Davis following Roy Williams. You, you have to, you ultimately have to do it your way because if you don't and it doesn't work out, you're always going to regret it. I think if you do it your way, you know, succeed or fail, you can look yourself in the mirror and feel good about it. Yeah, it's impossible to fill the shoes of those guys. I mean, it's just, and Hubert Davis. I mean, shout out to him. What an unbelievable job he's done.

But let's talk, after you stepped away from assistant coaching, you move into TV. And 95, you signed with ESPN. What is TV something that always interested you? Yeah, it did. But when I was in high school, I was asked, you know, when you got to be a good player and started being like kind of locally celebrated, you know, you get articles written about you and you have, you know, people asked, you know, what do you want to do after basketball? And the truth is cold, I didn't have a good answer. And so at that time, this is back in the late 70s, early 80s, there were athletes that were becoming broadcasters. You know, Frank Gifford was doing Monday Night Football and Don Drysdale was calling baseball games as a play-by-play person. And so I said, well, I'd like to get into broadcasting. But the truth is, I didn't know what I was talking about. I just kind of said it. And as a result of that, you know, that became part of, you know, the news story about me. And so when I was being

A lot of schools recruited me to that. You know, they had a broadcast journalism department or whatever. And you could get your alums involved back then. It was legal to introduce, you know, recruits to alums. And Coach Kay introduced me to a guy named Chuck Howard, who was an executive producer with ABC Sports. And Chuck was a real mentor of mine and started giving me jobs while I was in college. I worked, my first job is I worked the PGA Championship of Riviera Country Club that Hal Sutton won. and I did Monday night baseball, the 1984 Olympics in L.A.

I did all kinds. I did bowling at Chris Schenkel and Nelson Burton, Jr. I did bowling events. It did all kinds of stuff. And it sort of wet my appetite for it and made me think that maybe someday I could do this and started working in a little bit. But I sort of honestly gave up on it when I quit the coaching gig. And I accepted a job as a lawyer in Charlotte, North Carolina,

with a big firm called Morton Ben Allen. And, you know, I'm practicing law and I get a call one day from a guy named George Hebel, who was the president of the Capitol Sports Network, and he offered me radio games. He said, I want you to do games on the radio for us. And I thought, and it was zero money. I think I got $200 a game plus expenses. And I thought, you know what? I'm going to try this.

And if I screw up my law practice, I'll quit. But I figured, why would I quit before I started? And I started doing radio. And that's what led to the ESPN thing in 95. I think it did radio for like two or three years. And I loved it. And it was great training for me. And it was just something I enjoyed doing.

And after six, seven years of practicing law and then doing broadcasting together, I just couldn't do it anymore. I couldn't do both. I was just worn out all the time. And I thought, well, let's try the ESPN thing. And if it doesn't work out, I can hang my shingle back out again and maintain my law practice. But the broadcast side worked out. I'm still with my firm.

but I'm probably the least valuable lawyer in the entire firm. What's your retainer right now, Jay? Assuming a couple of fellows needed some legal representation down the road and we need your services. Yeah, I do a lot of divorces, name changes, and I'm very big when people get traffic tickets. I help them out with that. But I'll bring in the occasional piece of business. That's basically what I do.

but I haven't filled an hour in forever. But I still keep my license up, do all my, you know, CLE stuff. So I'm available if you need me. So I'd be more than happy when you get in the witness protection program to process all the documentation. Good man. Could you see on some of those traffic violations too, but I'm racking up quite to the tab here. You'll probably get a call from Sleaze before me. Yeah, I'm going to need, yeah, keep that phone on that hip.

You know what I mean? So, I mean, being obviously the legendary broadcaster you are, you get to go to some of the best places in the country to call games. Let's take Cameron Indoor out of it. What's your favorite stop in college basketball? It's not close. It's Allen Fieldhouse at Kansas. I have used a golf analogy to describe it. It's the St. Andrews of college basketball. I mean, James Naismet was their first coach. I mean, the guy that invented the game. And he's also the only coaching Kansas history of the losing record. But it's a magnificent place. And there's nowhere like it. It's the

only place that I would say is on par with Cameron. And it's actually a better place to call the game because you're down on the floor. You know, Cameron, you're up in the, they call it the birds nest or the crow's nest, whatever. But you're, you're way above the action. It's still a great view and it's still, you know, as good a place as anywhere. It'd be even better if you were down on the floor. But both those places, it's like, you know, Wrigley Field and Fenway Park, you know, that kind of stuff. It's just they're so unique and different from anything else.

You know, both both those buildings have a soul. And one of my favorite times to be in Ellen Fieldhouse and Cameron is when nobody's in there. You know, when you go in there, like maybe you're an hour before practice or something, there's nobody there. And all you can hear is the hum of the lights. You know, the building kind of speaks to you in a way. It's really, really a neat place to be. Yeah, I've been to Cameron Indort with nobody in it.

That's the only time I've ever been there. But I've heard the bird's nest or whatever you want to call it. I heard it gets rather warm up there during games. It gets hot. And so when I was doing radio up there, I worked with a legendary broadcaster named Bob Harris. And I would show up in a golf shirt and a pair of slacks. And he got on me saying, hey, we wear a coat and tie here. And I'm like, I am not sweating through a suit up in this thing.

That's not how we're not on camera. Nobody's going to see me. So I'm not doing that. And then later on, he, you know, he wore. a golf shirt in later years and I would always tease him say, hey, that's not what we're about here at Duke. So I gave him a pretty good hard time about that.

Speaking of legendary broadcasters, you eventually go on to work with Bill Raftery. You got his sign there in the back. Give me your first impression of Bill Raftery when you met him and then maybe your all-time favorite story because we got a bunch of friends who are friends with him and to a man, I've never heard anyone revered the same way he is. Yeah, I can't remember the first time I've met him.

but when I first started working with him, ESPN dropped me into the booth with Sean McDonough and Raft, and they had been working together with CBS and ESPN. And it was like, you know, I talk about being the third wheel in a marriage. I was really nervous when they dropped me in there. I thought, I shouldn't be here. I shouldn't be doing this. And we did a Notre Dame game. We're in South Bend on Big Monday.

And McDonough, I don't know if you know Sean McDonough, but he has got maybe the best sense of humor of any friend I have. But so we were doing the game and a guy named Danny Miller was playing for for Notre Dame. He transferred in from from Maryland. And he made a great play. And Raftery immediately says, it's Miller time. And you know how I love hearing that. And as soon as it got out of his mouth, McDonough says, except on Big Monday, brought to you by Bud Light. And I lost my shit.

I was laughing so hard. I was going like, this is where I belong. And we had the best time. All we did was bust each other's chops. And we went out after every game. And we went out before the game, not drinking, but we went out and had a few pops after the game. And everywhere we went. And one night we were, we had done a game in Milwaukee.

And we went out to a place called Moes, a steakhouse afterwards. And McDonough wasn't there because he was doing it. was the night of the college football playoff. There was a BCS championship game back then. So we thought, do our big Monday game. Then we'll go to Moes and get a private room and have a TV on, watch the game, drink some wine, have a have a stake and enjoy ourselves. So I got there with Dave Pash, our play-by-play guy, got there a little bit earlier than Raffrey did. And so I had just, at that time, my eyes had just gone. And I didn't have reading glasses with me, but I couldn't see the menu. So I asked the waiter, what's a good cap? And he points to something. I said,

great, bring that. And Dave, Pasch looks at me and says, Jay, that's like $300 a bottle. And what's I going to do? Like, go chase the guy down and say, well, sorry, we want the cheap stuff. So I said, Dave, you know, just having you here, that's, it's worth every penny. But I thought, we'll adjust that when Raff gets here. We start ordering more. So Raff got there, brought three or four other guys and we were sitting there and I just stopped paying attention and we ordered a fair amount of wine that night and so raftery and I over the years we would always kind of fight each other for the check so you know I'd get up go use the can I'd give the waiter my credit card or something then they'd bring the check to me so I didn't I wasn't paying attention and raft had already

slid the guy's credit card so they brought them back the little leather thing with the the check in it and Raft opens it up, looks at it, and screams out, holy shit! And that kind of almost crying. And then he looks at me and he goes, would you mind order from the Irish side of the menu once in a while? And I said, come on, man, give that to me. That's my fault.

And he goes, no, I'll pay it. And he brings that up all the time. Would you mind order some Irish wine tonight? I got a new contract. It's not as big as yours. That's awesome. I heard nobody goes harder than him, too. Like, he's the last guy to leave the bar most nights.

I think he's a vampire. I don't know how he does it. And he's the first one up, you know, the next morning to catch a flight. We were in Maui one time at a place called Longies, which was his favorite place. Like, there's never been a time that he wasn't at the Maui invitational, that he wasn't at Longies after the game. It was their requirement. We went there. It's a great place.

And we were there one night until I don't know what time it was. but it was way after last call. And the place was closed. They had turned every chair upside down on the table, except for the ones we were sitting at. And finally, they kept saying, Raft, we got to close down. Like, we can't keep doing this.

And he had a drink in his hand. And finally, they came up and they said, Raft, we got to close the place down. They took the drink out of his hands. And he jumped up jokingly, but he jumped up. And he says, that's it. I'm not coming here anymore. And walked out.

He was just kidding. but like the idea that he wouldn't go there anymore was ludicrous but uh i still remember that one what a beauty oh so give it all right you got to give us your best raff man to man you got one well everybody does the man-to-man thing uh but my my favorite thing that raff would do is when anybody would bring him a drink when the waiter would or waitress would bring a drink over if it wasn't filled up to the to the rim he would look at him or her and say what you trip I like that. That's good.

I'm going to use that. I steal that one every once in a while. I'm going to use that. That was the best trio is you, Raff, and McDone. I love that. I remember thinking back, and I was looking back at some of the great calls on that thing. And there was one time where you guys were talking about a star player of one team. Like, yeah, they're going to have to really ride him today.

They're going to really have to ride him. And Rap looks to go, hey, you ever been ridden? And I think you were like, oh, boy. A lot of ways to answer that one. Don't know which way to go. Yeah, I said we were talking about. somebody said they're really, maybe it's McDonough, they're really riding the hot player. And then he looks at me and he goes, hey, Jay, have you ever been ridden?

Yeah. And I said, well, yeah, but not as the hot player. That's awesome. Every which way, except as the hot player. Obviously, another legend in college basketball broadcasting, Dickie V. You got any good Dickie V stories for us? Plenty. Vital is a unique character.

He's not only a great guy. Yeah, he's got more energy than anybody I've ever done. And we were working together one time at an event called the Great Eight, where they had the elite eight teams for the past year. We played a little tournament in Chicago. And we were staying at a really nice hotel in Chicago. I think it was the Drake. And I'm headed to practice to watch the teams work out.

And I'm just leaving my hotel room. And as I'm walking out of the room, it was like I almost got hit by a car. There was this, you know, like crinkly sweatsuit guy sprinted paths. me and almost knocked me over and it was Vital. He was doing wind sprints up and down the corridor in the hotel. And I'm like, what are you doing? He said, I've got to get some exercise. And then we got down to the lobby and our car was a little bit late picking us up. So he just tears off and runs up the stairs around the balcony and back down the other side. He did it like two or three times. I'm like, man, you got issues. He got you got some. He's like an eight-year

year old, but just a great guy and, and, uh, you know, the game game wouldn't be the same without him. How does he do it? I mean, he's 80 something years old. I mean, he's a teenager out there running around. Yeah, I think he's 82. Yeah. So you never know it.

And, uh, you know, he'll, uh, the guys all the play by play guys all joke that when he, when he talks, he'll grab, he'll grab his partner physically and grab them. They got marks on him at the end of the end of the broadcast. See, but guys like you and him and Raf, like I enjoy watching the game because I can tell how much y'all enjoy doing what you're doing. And that's what makes it so special. Well, it's the same with you, Colt. I mean, you know, when when you love the game and love the people, like that, that's one of the things about Raftery that I've always admired the most is he doesn't just love the game.

He loves the people in the game. And, and, you know, before every game, we always go back and we see the coaches. And I was always reluctant to do it because I didn't want to bother a coach right before a game. but he just walks into the locker room. You know, and he'd go see the trainer and say, my hip is hurt. Can you put, give me some, give me some treatment on my hip. You know, whatever it was, we were always back there.

And, and no coach ever said no to him. You know, everybody loved seeing him. And he just, he just makes your life better. Being around Raftery is, it's just fun. It's so much fun. And we did a game one time. He and McDonough and I were in Philly. and we would always go to lunch the day of the game

and then go watch workouts and do the game that night. You know, it was always, Big Monday was always a 7 o'clock game. So we went to lunch and Raftery had been with Vern Lundquist on Sunday doing a game for CBS. So he gets there to lunch and it was a total setup. But Sean says, well, how was the game this weekend? How was Vern? And Raptory says, oh, it was great.

We went out the night before the game. and we opened some wine and we talked about the business and we talked about all the great broadcasters, your name didn't come up. And I lost it. We repeat that almost every lunch we have now. But that's how the vibe was when y'all working together. It's like these guys, they know everything about basketball. They're going to give great analysis.

But they also have fun and they're going to say something at some point. Like, have you ever been ridden comment? You know what I mean? It sounds more like guys who actually sit around and watch the game, except they actually know what the hell they're talking about. And it's hard to get, you know, when you have a pairing or a trio like that where it's friends, it's not just a couple of pros that are working together, it's guys that are legit friends that we would be saying the same things, but probably with more cursing if we were just sitting

together watching the game at a bar. And that kind of thing I think is easy to say that you want to do. It's just hard to do. And with those guys, it was easy. And when Raft had to take that opportunity with Fox, when he got that amazing contract with Fox, we were all saddened that, you know, it was kind of breaking us up. But at the same day, we're happy for Raft. But, you know, it'll never be the same. You know, it's always great with the people I luckily have to work with. But that was, that was impossible to duplicate.

It'll never be, it'll never be quite like that again. Yeah. It's easy in theory, tough in execution. Speaking of, have you ever in all your years on air had a slip up that you regret and said something like, whoops, that came out a little wrong? You got any that stand out? Well, yeah. Oh, I've had things I've stated in artfully, certainly. But I've never had a slip up where I, you know, I cursed on the air, said something, you know, said something politically incorrect, something like that. There may have been times where I said something or stated something that I would like to have done again because I would have liked to have been clearer. or, you know, stated it more artfully, but I've been pretty lucky.

You know, when I started, I sort of realized that don't say anything near a microphone that you don't want the entire world to hear. So I've been been pretty lucky with that one. You know, I've not not yet made that kind of mistake, but I wouldn't put it past me. Give it time. It happens. I know a good attorney. Do you, Jay, are you a hockey guy at all?

I was when I was growing up. Growing up in L.A. I was a big Kings fan back when. And, you know, they had Marcel Dion and Rogi Beshan and Bob Barry was coaching him. And I watch it, but I'm not, I'm not religious about it. I was a huge baseball fan growing up and basketball. But, and I watch a fair amount of football, but, but I'm not immersed in anything like I used to be. For me, it's basketball and golf.

Like, you know, my wife says, you know, really, do we have to have the golf channel on right now, seriously? But I can't get enough of it. I watch it all the time. You tell her to start enjoying it. Okay, we got to watch a lot of golf. But there was a great slip up in the hockey game last night in the abs in the overtime game. There was a rule. There was a goal that was kind of being challenged.

And they brought the guest official on who goes over the rules if there's ever an incident or all. And they brought him in and he's explaining the rule. And as they're doing it, they're showing the replay. And it's like a really close decision. He goes, oh, shit. And he's like, oh, gosh, sorry. On TNT, it was fantastic. I was like, that stuff just happens.

The guy shouldn't get punished or anything. It was hilarious. well i still think we ought to have a channel and we'll just call it ESPNf you where where you can you can just curse and all that stuff because it's cable there's no FCC problem with it i think it'd be i think it'd be fantastic uh you know like instead of a manning cast we just have a cursing cast uh because we're all thinking it and uh you know i curse i curse with the best of them uh i try not to but i can't help it um so i would i would prefer that i think it'd be a hell of a lot of fun to watch. I think those days are coming. I don't know how it's going to happen,

but I feel like those days are coming where you can have an alternate broadcast. It's like, all right, guys will say what they'll say, sitting around a couch watching the game with their boys. Yeah, and it doesn't insult me. You know, I actually prefer it, but I can understand how some people don't like it. I mean, I remember I invited a friend and that friend's parents to a game at Arizona when I was an assistant, we were playing on the road at Tucson and friends of mine from California. And they were, you know, very faith-based, you know, religious family. And but I put them in the best seat we get is right behind Coach K. And they were shocked at how much cursing there was on the sidelines among the players and the coaches.

And I said, it's just for emphasis. I mean, you know, if Coach K told us to grab that rebound, it doesn't carry as much weight as grab that eff and rebound. So that carries a lot more weight. I mean, you watch completely. Listen, you watch Hard Knocks, which is obviously a very popular show on HBO during NFL training camp. I mean, that's just how coaches and athletes talk. I mean, I don't understand why people think it's any different.

It's how I talk. Yeah. And, you know, I, look, I clean it up for, for, I clean up my act for the appropriate circumstances. You know, I try not to curse in church and I don't curse on the air. But other than that, I'm cursing. And I don't see that as a sin or a negative. I think it is a mostly a positive. Well, you love a game where cursing is encouraged,

and it also probably brings out the most cursing. And that's golf. You currently carry a five handicap, I looked up and I saw, at Charlotte Country Club. You're also up there at a nice little place called Pine Valley. How's your golf game right now? How often you get into play? I play every day that I can.

And I do something golf related just about every day. day. If I can't play, I'll go out to the club and hit balls or putt or something like that, because I just love it. I just enjoy it. I wish I had played when I was a kid. I just, I didn't take to it when I was a kid because it seemed like every time I went to my dad's club, somebody was telling me, don't do this, don't walk here, be quiet. You're not allowed to do that. And back then for juniors, you know, my dad was a member of Rolling Hills Country Club. And my brother was a stud player from the time he was like 10 or 12 years old. And, you know, as a junior, we used to have to pick the range before he could play.

And I'm like, I don't want to, I don't want to do this. Nobody tells me what to do when I'm playing basketball or baseball or be quiet or there weren't as many rules. And then when I was playing pro ball in Italy, I'd come back during the summer. And when we'd work out, the guys, we couldn't work out all day. Guys wanted to play golf after we worked out. And I just got hooked on it. So I love, you know, golf is the only game where you get to destroy private property while

intoxicated and you don't get arrested. I mean, I think that's pretty good. pretty good gig. I like that. I like beautiful. I like that. Take Pine Valley out of the equation because the vibe's slightly different up there. But what kind of golf are you? Are you a listen to music, have some cocktails on the course or a lock in, grind it out type of a guy? I'm whatever the, whatever the culture is at a particular club. So I, you know, like at Charlotte Country Club, some guys will play a little bit of music. It's not very often the guys do that. But I've been playing and lucky enough to go as a guest to a place called the Hoopie Match Club in Georgia over the last couple years.

And man, there's not a better track in the country. They hit every note right at a hoopie. And they'll play music there. It's a little more casual. And it's the kind of thing that I think every golfer, it's all matchplay, which is really cool. But it's the kind of place every golfer wants to be where it's like they adhere to the traditions of the game without adhering to traditional stuffiness that sometimes can sneak into golf. And, and, you know, I think, you know, not every club needs to be like that, but I do think

more clubs need to be like that because, I mean, if you haven't played a hoopy match club, that needs to be on your bucket list because it's, after having played it, it's one of those places I will crawl on my knees to play again because it's that much fun. And that. enjoyable. That is awesome. It's one of the best plays. They have a very relaxed young GZ policy out there. I've found. Yes. And that's what every golf course needs. They need more young

GZ, more biggie. That's what I think where the game is headed and should head. I love that. Commissioner Billis. That's fantastic. You mentioned you watch a lot of golf on TV. Who are some of your, maybe a handful of players that are your favorite to watch and who you root for?

Probably my favorite player is Justin Thomas. I just I love him and love his game and a huge Rory McElroy fan, big fan of Harold Barner, Evan met him. And, you know, he practiced sometimes at Charlie Country Club. And I've gotten to know Webb Simpson a little bit, so I'm a huge fan of Webb. You know, but there's really nobody that I don't enjoy watching because, you know, I don't know what you guys think, but I think golf is the hardest game ever at Venice. And, you know, when you, when you hit a good shot, you wonder how you ever hit a bad one.

When you hit a bad one, you wonder how you ever hit a good one. And it's different every day. The conditions are always different. And I played years ago with a guy named Jack Marin, who played basketball at Duke in the 60s and played in the NBA for a long time. And he's a fabulous golfer. You know, he's played on this celebrity tour. And he's older now. He's probably in his early 70s, maybe mid-70s.

But he's just a fabulous athlete. And I mean athlete back when I was. a kid, an athlete, now it means run and jump. But when I was a kid, athlete meant you could play a lot of different sports, and that's what Jack Marin is. He made a five-footer one time we were playing, and one of our playing partners said, just like a free throw, right, Jack? And he's like, are you kidding me? And he said, a free throw is the same all the time. The conditions are the same. It's the same distance. He goes, he goes, a five-foot put, every five-foot putt is different. And conditions are different. You know, the grass is all this thing. He launches into this

explanation, I was going, you know, damn it, he's right. The conditions are always different. The ball never moves and it's hard as hell. I wish, one of the things, I mean, I think I would have been a better basketball player if I had played golf when I was a kid, because there's nothing that requires you to move on from the last play and, you know, like let it go and move on, than golf and just deal with what's in front of you. And I think my concentration and everything would have been better if I had to play golf when I was a kid. That's very, very interesting.

It definitely teaches you to deal with disappointment, unlike any other. It's just disappointment over and over and over again. It's hard enough to get us both to quit. Well, my brother, my brother was and is a great golfer. And he was pro-caliber good when he was, you know, in his 20s. and when we had played one time and he blew one out of bounds at Charlie Country Club on the seventh hole and just re-teed one and knocked it, you know, 320 down the middle and, you know, just started whistling as he's walking down the fairway. And I'm like, how do you not get mad at that? When I blow one out of bounds, I'm like trying not to throw my club.

And he says, well, the difference between you and me is I know I'm not going to do that again. And I's going, geez, you're right. That's fair. You know, he made a bad, yeah, he made a bad swing, but he, you know, he's not going to do it again. And why carry that bad action with you into your next one? And, you know, he's got a much better outlook on golf than I do because I'm worried that, oh, that here's a harbigger of things to come that I just, I just hit a, you know, hit one fad.

I'm going to do that again. That's great. Schedule permitting, will you be at the President's Cup? Presidents' Cup in Charlotte. Yes. Awesome. Absolutely. Absolutely.

You know, Quail Hollow Club is one of my favorite places on the planet. and to have, you know, I'm so glad that they've, you know, they've adjusted the course. So they're going to play 16, 17, and 18. I think they're playing it as 14 through 16, right? 14 through 16 or 13 through 15, yeah. Something like that. So most of the, most if not all the matches are going to have the green mile in it. And that's as good as it gets in golf for me.

I don't know what you think about it. But, you know, those holes are fantastic finishing holes. and to have all those matches be able to have those holes in it, I think it'll be really cool. And it's such a great viewing golf course. Yes. Yeah, I can't wait. The favorite sporting event I've attended outside of a basketball event

has been the Ryder Cup. I went to the Ryder Cup in 08 in Louisville. And nothing I've been to has matched that, but I think the President's Cup will be right with it. It'll be awesome. And it's, Quill Hollow is beautiful, but for the players, there's also some beautiful scenery running around there, if you know what I mean. Yes.

Did you pick up on that? Charlotte does very well there. That's a good one. That's a good one. Love it. All right, Jay. Well, it's time to get to our emergency nine here. We do with everyone.

And we ask this question to everyone. You can trade lives with anyone, dead or alive, be them for a day. Who would it be? Tiger Woods. Yeah, I'd like to be Tiger for a day and just be able to hit any shot I wanted. That would be kind of nice. I've done not being able to hit any shot I want and I would prefer the Tiger Woods thing.

I like that. Good one. I think that's the first Tiger answer we've had. And we do all golfers all the time. Well, those are our golfers. They don't want to be another guy. Yeah, they want to be somebody else. Everybody wants what they can't have.

All right, Jay, I'm very genuinely interested in this question here. I know you're a big rap fan. All right. So you only get to listen to three rap albums for the rest of your life. What are they? GZ's thug motivation 101. Probably I'd go with Biggie. Like, Notorious BIG is as good as it gets, and then anything by Tupac.

Yeah, hard to argue with that. I love that. I'll stay on the Young GZ topic here because I know you're a big fan of his. As you mentioned, it's one of your top three albums. He puts you in one of his remixes. What is the line he uses to refer to you? go to work like Jay Billis. Love that.

What did you think when you heard that, dude? That's got to be like the biggest feather in your cap ever for GZeezy to shout you out. Yeah, I was blown away by that. I'm in another one too. I can't remember which one, but the GZ one blew me away. Because I started that thing kind of by accident. You know, I was, we were on game day in Michigan State and Dremont Green was listening some headphones in warmups while we were on the air.

And he came by. and one of us asked him what he listened to? And he said, Young Jeezy. And Hubert Davis was with us at the time before he left to go back to North Carolina. And he said, is that on your playlist? I think he said iPod at the time. That's a long ago. It was probably 2010.

And I said, actually, it is. You know, I listened to that in high school. The Sugar Hill Gang was big when I was in high school, when rap first started getting going and hip-hop. And, you know, rappers delight. My teammates and I was saying that every day while we're working out. And so somehow on Twitter, I started going back and forth with people saying, come on, man, you don't listen to Snowman. That was all BS.

And I started putting lyrics out to prove that I did listen to. It's not the only thing I listened to it. It's not like I listen to rap music only. I'm a big Stones fan, Zeppelin, all that, kind of old school. But I started putting it out. And it became an everyday thing. I don't even know how it would happen. But now if I don't put one out in the morning, my friends call me, say, you okay?

Like, was something wrong? I'm like, geez, this has gotten out of hand. That's great. People depend on that, man. We have a segment on our serious XM show. We actually haven't done it in a while. We need to bring that back. What do you mean?

Where we take funny rap lyrics and have our guests explain what they mean. In layman's terms. Yeah. It's good. Justin Thomas is the best. Yeah, you actually do have to be a little bit careful sometimes because I want to make sure I'm somewhat appropriate with it. So I have to do some editing at times. Yeah, we've got to be careful which lyrics you're picking out there this day and age.

All right. Next one for me with the NIL rules coming to college. basketball. Do you think Jerry Tarkhanian deserves more credit for embracing the NIL deal 30 years before it came legal? Yes, and he wasn't the only one. It happened everywhere. There's probably not a good player from the 60s up until today that was strictly eligible, given how draconian the NCAA's amateurism rules were and are. And I always thought it was funny. You know, I, through playing golf, I've gotten a know, a friend of Taylor made, and I went out out to their, you know, the kingdom out in Carlsbad and had a blast. And while I was there,

you know, there were a bunch of college players there that carrying out a bunch of, you know, a bunch of equipment afterwards. I'm going, if those are basketball players, they'd be flagged in two seconds for that. So the rules were never really enforced with regard to all that stuff. It was selective. But I'm just glad the players now get an opportunity to monetize their talent a little bit because it's pro sports. And really the only thing amateur in America now is golf. And, and, you know, but, but amateur golfers decide whether they're going to practice on a particular day and whether they're going to play.

You know, like, you know, somebody, you know, my age might play in the senior am. They say, well, I can't play this year. Remember, my daughter's getting married. You know, when you're playing college football or college basketball, you're not saying, hey, I can't take this trip to Clemson this weekend because I got something going on. You're going. And you're practicing when the coach says, practice. You're an employee. And so pretty soon they're going to be signed to contracts. And

this is going to be what it should be, which is a, you know, it's a multi-billion dollar entertainment industry. And the players deserve to, you know, get their, you know, have their full economic rights just like everybody else. Some of them are getting paid rather handsomely. Yeah. Let me ask you a follow up. Because Ryan Day, the Ohio State football coach just came out and said he basically thinks it takes two million for a quarterback this day and age for the top end quarterback like Ohio State would have. What do you think it's going to be for college basketball? It'll be in similar vein, but when you think about it, two million is cheap for the amount of money that these guys are pulling in. I mean, the coaches are getting paid like NFL coaches.

Do we expect the players aren't going to command, you know, decent salaries? And people say, well, there's got to be a salary cap. Okay. You want to have a salary cap. Salary caps are collectively bargained between the players association and the league, whether it's the NBA or the NFL. And what people fail to recognize in that is those. players get half of the league revenues to divvy up amongst themselves. So the salary can make sense, but they also have salary minimums. And we don't have any of that in college

sports yet. I don't think it's going to be a while before we get there. But, you know, people, hey, people want, you know, the players to get half. Like college sports gets off cheap. And, you know, Ryan Day estimated $13 million to keep his roster attack. When you start thinking about the money that Ohio State football pulls in, that's cheap. And now, it sounds expensive relative to what players have gotten in the past, which is zero. And they say they didn't get zero. They got a scholarship. Well, the scholarship was paid by the athletic department to the school.

So they were just moving money from one account to another. The school wasn't out that money. It's just a, if you want to say the school was out anything, they were out the opportunity cost of having a playing, paying students sitting in that seat. But that's it. These players are big revenue drivers. And they deserve, in my view, deserve to be paid. Like, look, if the U.S. Amateur brought in 25 million, the players would want a piece of that.

And just even when the Ryder Cup brings in so much, the players wanted to be able to direct it to charities that they may choose. They got criticized for it. That doesn't seem unreasonable to me. Nope. Not at all. That is a money-making. I mean, I know it's every other year, but my God, it brings in a lot of money. And it might keep these kids in college longer.

Yes. That's exactly right. I'm getting two million to stick around. I don't want to get drafted by the name it, whoever, the magic in the first overall pick. That's exactly. I'll just write it out another year. Make another two million. And for people.

Bingo. And for people who believe in education, and I'm one of them, what's wrong with having players in school longer? You know, they're getting better educated. So that's a plus for the enterprise. So there's really no, to me, no downside to it except, you know, if we're all going to clutch our pearls and pretend it's 1955. Yeah. Yeah, Gonzaga's got a little bit of it right now. Those got staying probably because of that.

It's heading in the right direction. That's for sure. All right. Next one for me. Through all the years you've watched some incredible players, you can call one person's game for your last game. Who would it be? That's a great question.

I mean, if I could go back, I would want to call a game of a contemporary of mine that I played against. It would be Lynn Bias, who passed away in 1986 right before the draft. we were the same year at school, played against each other for four years. And I think he would have been not, it sounds crazy to say the equal, but he would have challenged Jordan for best player in the NBA in that time frame had he lived. But in the more contemporary times, I'd love to go back to call more of Kevin Durant's games when he was at Texas because he was special, man, and still is.

That's awesome. Yeah, he was one of the first of the breed seven foot handles and shooting. it. All right, here we go. All right, so Duke's always got a villain on their team, right? Somebody that other fan bases just despise. Give me your top three or four most hated Duke villains of all time. Number one was Leitner. Got to be. I was an assistant on that Duke team that had Christian Leidner, Bobby Early, Grant Hill, Thomas Hill, that old crew. And they were amazing. But Leightner was, you know, people didn't like him because he had everything. He was, he was. you know, 6-10 could play with anybody. He was a great player and a great competitor. But he was also, you know, good-looking and one of, you know, he was in college, he was in People magazine as one of the 50, you know, most beautiful people in America, that kind of thing. So there was a lot of reasons not to like him, but he also gave as good as he got.

Like he could talk trash with anybody and never took a back seat to anybody. But he was an amazing athlete, too. Like, we used to play tennis every once in a while. And he could, I saw him do this. He could stand on his hands on one baseline and walk on his hands to the other baseline. The guy was just a remarkable, remarkable athlete. That's 610. Yeah, they've had some good ones in there. J.J. Reddick took the, J.J. Reddick was one of the most hated.

He had a hell of a time at visiting arenas. And now he's, like, beloved in the sports media. It's been a crazy transformation for him. Yeah, Reddick would be up there, you know. Grayson Allen. Steve Wojowski, Grayson Allen, you know, Danny. Ferry. You know, Danny was one of those guys. He was probably, he was probably hated by opponents, but loved by his teammates. You know, all these guys were loved by their teammates. They're all great

guys. I don't pretend to understand like the Duke hate thing because, like, you know, I've been a fan growing up. I mean, I didn't like opposing teams of the teams I rooted for the most grown up, but, but I never, I don't remember ever hating a player, you know, rooting for somebody to lose or not liking to see somebody win. That's a fan's domain. I never got the hate part because Reddick was a great player and a great guy just because he was a, you know, confident, cocky player, didn't, to me, didn't rise the level of wanting to hate the guy, but, you know, people do as they do. He recently said he had to change his phone number like 15 times in college because opposing people would get it and just send him all kinds of hate.

It was probably bill collectors from the bars he went to where he didn't pay his staff. That's fair. Hey, that's part of that. That was NIL pre-N-I-L. All right, my next one. We love Charles Barkley here on Subpar. He's one of my favorite analyst in the game. Give us one word that describes Charles Barkley's broadcasting.

Unvarnished. Barkley says whatever he's thinking. And he probably, you know, it sounds like, funny to say he gets away with stuff. True. I think other broadcasters that would say some of the things he would say would get you called on the carpet with your bosses. And Barclay had, and I think it's because he's such a good guy. I mean, I just don't know many better guys than Charles Barclay. And one of the things, Colt, that's always impressed me about, about Chuck is he is

unfailingly nice to fans, like unfailingly. And to the point where, and to the point where, people will bother him. And he is great with him. I actually brought this up with them on a podcast we were on recently where we had gone to Sean McDonough has a charity golf tournament in Boston.

And he brought, you know, he flies all these people in. And Barclay and I were, we weren't on the same flight, but we landed at the same time, get picked up by the same person. And he was waiting for his, we were both waiting for our golf bags to come out. And Barclay got stuck back in coach and everybody else is in first class

and they screwed his ticket up. And not one complaint. And he, people are coming up for pictures and autographs and you name it. And he, he stayed there until everybody got what they wanted. And I was blown away by that. You know,

look, he's not the only person that's exceedingly nice to fans, but there's nobody that's nicer as consistently as he is. You just don't bother him while he's eating dinner and he'll take all the pictures inside all autographs you want. Yeah. And look, I remember he didn't, didn't he get in a scrape with a fan sometime and threw him out of window. Um, uh, and then it was, yeah, yeah, he got sued for it and they asked him, I remember reading this. They asked him, uh, do you have any regrets? And he said, yeah,

regret. We weren't on the second floor. Yeah, exactly. And I think he wound up winning, wound up winning the lawsuit. Yeah, that's, that's a good one. The only fans he doesn't like is the Golden State Warriors. He got into, they were throwing, they were throwing shit at him. Yeah, he didn't like that. You can't throw stuff at Chuck. and still doesn't back off. Nope. No. And he's so irreverent that he's just bulletproof. He's built the perfect, the perfect professional image there. All right. Last one for me, Jay. Best defense you've ever seen.

The 1998, excuse me, 1988, Georgetown Hoyas, are you in the courtroom against Barney? Oh, it would be me. I was unflinching in the courtroom. And anybody, you know, look, without, it was suspending all humility. anybody that could take on the evil hoard that was was prosecuting that Barney case. You know, I put that, I put that on par with running up Omaha Beach. Yeah. As, with difficulty. Yeah, heroics.

Heroic. You killed Barney, dude. You did everyone a favor. I love it. That's fantastic. I'm sure a congressional, Congressional Medal of Honor. The Medal of Freedom's coming my way anytime now for that. Without question.

All right. last one put together a starting five on the basketball court of pga tour players wow uh Dustin Johnson because I think he can still dunk um I would put Tiger up there when when he before all the injuries uh because I think athletically tiger could hang um you would need a small guard that could handle the ball and no tour players lower to the ground can play lower like guys that play low. I put Justin Thomas there because he can play low. We need somebody to rebound. Like a Patrick Beverly type.

You got to have Gary. You got to have Woodland on there. I don't know if you've ever watched any golf. But they don't know if they mentioned he plays basketball. Yeah, he played at Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh State, right? And then he played at Allen Fieldhouse against Kansas. His, he played at Walford, right?

Yeah, he played a small school in Kansas and transferred into KU to play golf. ever college basketball game was at Allen Fieldhouse and he had to guard Kurt Heinrich. Yeah, he guard Kirk set up. See ya. Yeah, well, he could probably take Heinrich on the course. So that's a fair trade. Yeah, Woodland is a good call. And then I would want Brooks Kepka because I'd want

somebody that could furrow their brow and be an enforcer and lay somebody out. Draymond Green, Kepka. There you go. Yeah, he'd be the Draymond Green. Yeah, I like that. Wouldn't take crap for anybody. I like that. Well, Jay Billis, man, this has been awesome. I hope to see you in Charlotte at the President's Cup, but we really appreciate you coming on with us.

Yeah, come on out and play, man. I need a member guest partner. I'm available. Deal. Thank you guys for having me. You got it, man. Thank you, Jay Billis. Thank you so much, Jay Billis,

joining us on golf subpar. What a dude. I mean, he is just incredible. Loves his basketball, loves his golf, loves a cocktail or two. Ain't scared to swear a little bit. I'm all in on Jay Billis. He loves a cocktail.

Maybe not as much as Raff. Wow. Bill Raftery. I wanted to ask like 17 RAF questions in a row just because I'd heard some of the stories, but I think we got the gist of it there. That dude is a legend. By the way, when it was Billis, Raff, and McDonough, that might have been my favorite all-time basketball crew calling it. Also loved his idea of the ESP, what do you call it, ESPNFU, where you can just get a little

vibe in there, you know what I mean, just like the fellas. That's what I'm looking for for golf. Maybe try that out to CBS, say CBS, say CBS FU and I got the lead guy. That's when I slide in. No, but he was great, man. Remember at Pine Valley, Charlotte Country Club. loves to play, love some golf. He gets out there, gets amongst it.

And loves Jeezy. Loves him some Jeezy. His tweets are awesome. What's your favorite Jeezy lyric, would you say? Yeah. I love that, by the way, too. He was flat out open and honest. His favorite player, Justin Thomas.

Straight up. That's pretty good. Justin Thomas likes his hip-hop as well. Exactly. We should have done what do you mean with Billis. There's some interesting cheesy ones out there. I could use some decipherers. I like getting the non-golf guys, though,

that are very passionate about golf and know a lot about it. They get really excited talking about the game. There's a ton of them out there, man. Like, everyone, whether you play golf or you're in another sport, they all love it. And, yeah, Billis is, he's just a dude, man. He's just a dude. Always also doesn't hurt to know another Pine Valley member. You know what I mean? So, Jay, keep that phone on you, bud. How about some of those Coach K half-time and pre-game speeches?

I never figured Coach K for, like, I don't want to call it, like, the gimmick stuff, but like the whole, you know what I mean? Like the order. I thought he'd just come in there and just chew some asses and they'd be like, oh, my God. Yeah. But he's done it all, I guess. Well, thanks to Jay Billis for coming on. And it is time to step up to the team. and take a swing at betting the PGA tour on Fandul Sportsbook. Right now, new customers can bet the tour with a no sweat first bet. If you don't win, you'll get up to $1,000 back in free bets.

Slees, once again, our hearts were ripped out. I had Will Zalotaurus last week is my favorite. Let's talk about this. He was obviously one shot short. Our favorite bets of the week, I had Zander Shafle to top 10. He finished just tied for 14th. Decent track record for him. Decent track record.

Had a terrible Saturday, which absolutely, killed us. You're trying to get on the board. You had Sam Burns. I had the surest thing. Top 20. When I saw it, I was like, this is a typo. They messed out. It was supposed to be minus 115, but it's plus 115. Sam Burns all day. Top 20. He never sniffed. He had a better chance of winning the damn tournament than not finishing in the top 20. I cannot get my horses over the finish line. I had Cam Young shoot me a little 84 piece a while back in the final round. Windham choked his ass off coming in a colonial with me on the bag. I'll take a little bit of that. But now Burns, I just, I can't get a Sunday. I can't get my boys. I can't get my horses to

the barn right now. All right. Well, like I said, over at Fandle, you bet risk-free up to $1,000. Get that back in sight credit. But you got all kinds of options. You got head-to-head matchups. Top 20s, no big deal. They're harder than you think. All right. Nationality props, all kinds of things. So head over to Fandul and play some bets, win some money, and see for yourself why Fandle is America's number one sportsbook. This week, we're on to the Travelers Championship, one of the best tournaments on the PGA tour, except for one asshole fan out there, which I don't like. I love this, man. I need to meet. this man and shake his hand.

The Colt knows Hater from Hartford. God, whoever you are. From Hartford, I need you, bud. I don't know who you are, but I don't like you. But this tournament is incredible. They treat you so well up there. It's a fun golf course. Always an exciting finish.

Last year we had the eight whole playoff between Harris English and Kramer, Hickcock. It's going to be a fun one. We got a very, very strong field. Good field week after a major. They got a hell of a field. Roy McElroy, Justin Thomas, Jordan Speeth. Yeah, it's going to be. Can't lay.

It's going to be awesome. But let's get on the board. Let's pick a winner. I'd love to get on the damn board. How many second places do we have in this thing this year? There's been a gris of runner-ups this year. All right. Well, my favorite this week, I'm going off a guy who didn't play his best last week.

Finished, I believe, 37th, but he's a past champion here. He just, at some week, some week he's going to put it all together. I know he won at Hilton Head, started to look like what was going to be a nice run. Then he fell off a little bit. Hartford, it's going to bring the best out in him. He's going off at 22 to 1, which I love those odds. Jordan Spee's my pick is my favorite. Yeah, give Spith a little free pass for last week.

Was fighting that stomach bug. He had to come out there. We're white pants on Thursday after a stomach bug. Speaking of gambling. That takes some balls, you know what I mean? That's a guy I like to hitch my wagon to. All right, you got Spith. I'm going with another guy.

Not his best week, but he was also fighting a little something at the U.S. Open. Didn't show up for two days. We had some personal reasons for practice rounds. But I got Patrick Cantlay at 16 to 1. He finished 11th back in 2020. Finished 14th last week of the U.S. Open without even close to his... 60 as an hameter?

Close to his best. Exactly. 60 has an amateur around here. 16 to 1, I'm going Patrick Cantley. Okay, like it, like it. I mean, I like Patrick Cantley at every golf course. Every single, yeah, just run it. All right, my Dark Horse, I'm very surprised by these odds because he's starting to play so much better golf.

Finished 14th at the U.S. Open last week. He missed the playout by a shot last year at Hartford. He's a past champion. Mark Leashman going off at 55 to 1. I think he's about to get things rolling. I love Leash. Love them everywhere, especially on those firm golf, I thought last week would be a great, great setup for Leash.

He finished 14th? Yeah, it was soft. That might be an early preview is my little bet of the week. A little top 10 action from Mark Leishman. Stay tuned. I need somebody to finish 36 holes. You should just say minus 5,000 just to get to 36th hole and complete it. That's what I'm looking for right now.

All right, my dark horse. Stay with me on this one, right? Pretty juicy. Here's his last three starts. 27th at Colonial, solid. Fifth at Memorial, tough ballpark. Seventh at the U.S. Open. Kind of worked his way into being a little bit of a factor there late in the game,

but I'm going Denny McCarthy, the best part. putter of the rock on the PJ tour right now and starting to strike it too he's really playing some good golf also a northeast guy friendly confines up there for you can roll it absolutely roll it tied for seventh last week um i know he's very disappointed he looked like he had a chance with a little bog on the last too yeah all right well download the fandul sportsbook app and sign up using promo code subpar to get started with your no sweat first bet up to one thousand dollars fan dole sports book official betting operator of the pGA tour make sure you use promo code subpar must be 21 years and older and present in Arizona, Connecticut, Iowa, Illinois, New Jersey, New York, or Wyoming,

first online real money wager on the refund issue does not with trouble-free bets that expire 14 days after receipt. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.Fandul.com. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-gambler or visit at fandul.com slash RG or 1-800 next step or text next step to 53344 or 1-888-78-9-7-77-7 or C-G dot or 1-8778-8-Hope-N-Y or text hope N-Y or 1-800-5-2-2-4-7-0. Stay hot, fellas. Stay hot. What a read. Fantastic week. Who we got coming up next?

It's going to be a surprise. Don't worry about it. Stay tuned. Stay tuned. We'll talk to you on next week's golf support. Thank you.