Subpar - Jim ”Bones” Mackay talks his first hole ever caddying for Justin Thomas, how he originally ended up on Phil Mickelson’s bag

Episode Date: October 4, 2022

On this week's episode of GOLF's Subpar, legendary caddie Jim "Bones" Mackay joins former PGA Tour pro Colt Knost and jicky jack legend Drew Stoltz for an exclusive, in-studio interview. He talks how he originally ended up on Phil Mickelson's bag, the first hole he ever caddied for Justin Thomas and how he ended up with the "Bones" nickname.   Subpar Podcast: https://linktr.ee/Golf1271 Birdie Juice Merch: https://proshop.golf.com/collections/birdie-juice-collection -- Thanks to our official sponsor Dewar's. Make sure to check out their Reserve Bar listings today: https://www.reservebar.com/collections/house-of-dewars

Hello world. Welcome back to golf subpar with Colt Nost and Drew Stoltz coming off the Sanderson Farms Championship where McKenzie Hughes is your winner in a playoff over Sep Straka. Congratulations McKenzie. First win in almost six years, his second in his career on the PGA tour. But Sepp Straka, this guy is knocking on the door. He's turning into a hell of a player. A little sneaky monstrous year ever since, I guess, the Honda last year where he won. You know, Shane Lowry was in a good spot there. The weather came in. step ends up winning that thing and then he's just gone on to like he's a guy that i think rewind a year ago people saw his name on top of labor like who's that all the dudes from georgian knew him you know

could we talk to him like this kid's really good and now i feel like the world's starting to get to know him but he's been up there a bunch of times he's close to rattling off a handful of wins in the last year and being right there but uh props the mackenzie hugh's like you said been six years been working on a little distance training little speed training like a lot of the other guys out there out a little pop to his driver. He rolls the shit out of it, always has rolled it. And I got to think, honestly, last week, two weeks ago, President's Cup, he was a name that was right there, met for a long, long time, topped him on those points list.

Then you get all the guys that go to live. The team opens up a little bit more. He was a guy that, I don't know, snub is the right word, but was fully expecting he had a good chance to be on that team, didn't. And he lives in the city of Charlotte. So we had to sit there and watch it all happen, all that. That had to be a little bit of a motivator for him, I would think. Yeah, a little bit of a stinking.

for sure. Also, a pretty good weekend football. Your TCU Hornfrogh State undefeated. They're actually going to be a part of game day this coming weekend for the first time ever. Pat McAfee, college game day, all the boys can be heading to Lawrence, Kansas. Lawrence, that football squad, they get a lot of game days come basketball season. They don't have seen a lot during football season. But how about those boys, man? Five and O. over there frogs coming off just a just a boat racing of oh you that's not a team we clip we we lost eight straight against them so I was gonna enjoy every moment I kind of wish we hadn't called off the dogs in the second half just run that thing

up because God knows the next time you're gonna be able to do it against them one request ESPN college game of date if Gary Woodland is your celebrity guest picker I'm writing oh my God who will it be oh dude it's got to be like wriggle Rob we'll be in town wriggle be a good one so I think anybody that's like a KU guy this is the I mean dude you got to cherish this getting game day out there you don't know where it's gonna come back again they got a wriggle it would be good if it's Gary just oh my God we have to write a script for him yeah I can't think on his feeding and say something stupid as shit Gary's not built for live television uh also Cooper Rush

Dallas Cowboys if why are we doing come up I've been joking about him for a while like hey a little QB controversy down there in Dallas uh dude by the way he wins again next week and then that comes back like oh my hands better I don't good grab some bench dog what do you want a guy to do if doc had been doing this the exact same stats exact same results that people like look jack he's finally i told you told you the contract's justified cooper's doing it dude let that kid spin let booby spin

i love it man our defense is incredible big game this weekend paved the way for him as the red-headed guns slain you know what i mean calm down he's like the red be be gun they travel to l.a this week for a battle against the ram so if he can get another one that'd be four in a row and his win his first five starts in the NFL pretty damn impressive What do you want? What do you want from a guy that's getting paid less than a mill a year? Two-year, $1.95 million deal.

I mean, I've heard of worse things. Pretty good. Yeah. Russell Wilson paid $245. He costs a little bit more per way. Sierra's husband, excuse me. What? Would you rather have Cooper Rush on the Broncos right now? I'd rather have just something.

I don't know what the hell's going on. It's all part of the plan. We weren't going to come out the gates hot, no preseason, no play like that. We're pacing ourselves, sliding under the radar. But some of the shit going on right now, I'm like, what are we doing? Melvin Gordon cough it up every single time he gets it. Old buttery hands, Melvin. What's your coach's name up there?

Nathaniel Hackett. Yeah, Nathaniel Hackett, the way he's going, he's going to need, he might need to drink one of these bottle of doers after every, every game. A lot of people saying Nathaniel can't hack it. You with me? Yep. Yeah. But if you're going to enjoy that doers, make sure it's a lemon wedge, please.

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enjoy responsibly like we always do. Always enjoy responsibly and gamble responsibly. That's what we do. We're responsible people. My throat is not good, by the way. You sound great. I sound like I'm dying. All right, well, it's time for the doers' cheers moment of the week.

And speaking of gambling, this isn't even gambling anymore with this guy. This is just free money every time I tee it up with our good friend. Pout Pout Pout, Brian Bubbles Waters. Shout out to the Pout, the 17th best senior amateur in the United States of America, according to him. Major the round of 32 at the senior am. My cow club partner, you're a nemesis. Not my nemesis. You're a crippling night.

My little bitch. I own him. Muddy. I own him. He knows it now. Oh my God. So we went out and played Whisper Rock the other day. Myself, Pout, Pout, Dave Kelly, and Chris Quiet. All members at the Whisper Rock. We decided to play. It's soft out there

right now because it's still hot. We played the Rustys, which is the member T's. Sixty-800 yards. Friendly. Hadn't played in a couple weeks. Decide to go out there, teed up with the boys. Beautiful day. Mostly because I wanted to get ready for a match the next day with Max Homa and Riggs from Barstool and Joe Griner. A little tune up.

went out and sleeves it's like i never left it was just on an absolute heater turning four under nice and solid hitting a lot of good iron shots making a few puts recently went to the claw as you saw there in cow club hooping it from everywhere go to the back nine part of the tenth then rattle off seven straight threes 21 strokes that's good math three tubs end up shooting 29 on the back for a little 61 nine birdies and an eagle get you some get you some all in front of old muddy Dude, every single iron shot right when I'd hit at the ball to take golf. And he's like, God damn it! Because everyone was going right at the pin.

He's a positive influence. Oh, it was mud. He's always rooting for all day. He's like, you're my kryptonite. I hate you. I can't play golf with you ever again. But we just absolutely dusted him. Me and Chris Quiet took him down for a little change.

A little piece? Yeah. A little nibble. Yeah. Mud? Yeah. He's fun one to have a day against. It's so fun.

He's great when he, if you're on his team. and he's playing good because it's obnoxious. It fits right in with all of us when it's going good. But when it's going, when you're on the other side of it, it's going good, he doesn't handle adversity too well. Probably why I only made it to the round of 32 in the USG. He was yelling at me, complaining that his body wouldn't turn because he's... Oh, yeah, I got up at the crack at Don.

By the way, we just did that flying out to Cal Club, by the way, did the exact same thing. No excuses for you like a champion. Yeah, dude, just sack up. Have you a little doers? Let's go. Next day, I do have to give a little shout out to Max Homa and Riggs. They did take down me and Joe Griner.

We played a little high low So both balls count We lost $75 It's like basically We're setting them up for a big huge You gotta feed the pigeons Yeah a little bit Keep them coming back

But we went all the way back And Max Oma no surprise Cruised to a little 66 Did he hit it terrible? Oh my God It's just it's so it's The swing is so far all over the place It looks like a video game

I don't know how he squares it up at the bottom In so many different positions But we went all the way back that day High low I got two aside from Max I shot 68 Okay Took care of my business

My partner Joe I love you. I'll take, I'll always go with you till we die. He's the reverse pout, pal. He's Joe Griner's fantastic. He started with the stack system like that morning. And the speed, yeah, the speed system. His driver was all out of whack. He is as straight as I do.

Yeah. He's a down the middle type of a dude. Aren't you dialed up for this stack? I just got it. We got to get you with Blackburn's say, get you a 170 ball speed. I said, if you do that, dude, you need a better hire seven assistants. Get down. Oh, holy.

I mean, come on. But we have to actually have a meeting about it because he's worried if I just go straight into stack. I'm going to hurt myself. Okay. So I got to actually do some gym work a little bit before to get the body moving. How do you feel about that? I didn't know that was part of the deal. I just want to hit it hard dog.

I don't want to do any of the work. I just want to wake up and hit it long. Just tell me. Yeah, just let me show up. But I did just get it last week. Thank you, Stack, for sending that to me. I am going to get to work on it now that I have some time. And the game's getting nice.

Get stacked. Get stacked. Get stacked. I mean, get on this stack. Just hit crazy. Yaks. All right. Well, a man who gets to see a lot of crazy yaks out there. Our guest this week, Jim Bones, Mackay, caddy for obviously a long time caddy for Phil Mickelson. Now caddy for Justin Thomas. Pretty good bag to have.

Not terrible. He's done well in picking out his talent. Yeah, but this guy, I feel like we could have three episodes of bones. He's got so many stories. He's got so many stories. He's got so many stories. I think you're going to get some stuff about bones. And we should, by the way, because we've been trying to do this one for a long time. Scheduling, all that sort of stuff comes in. You've got so many stories. This is a real fun one. I think you're going to get some stuff about bones. Everybody knows bones, but how he got on the bag for Phil, how all that came to be Justin Thomas. You get into a lot of that.

There's just an endless stories around the way about some of the old school. Freddie couples, those dudes. Like, this dude's been in it from the jump. And when he was on TV, he did an outstanding job. But like, even when I found out he took the job with J.T. was talking to him. I was like, dude, like, caddy's like your DNA. Like, you belong, like, out there, like, in the game. And he got a bag that ain't going away for a while. All right. Let's get to it. Here's Jim Bones-McCai on Golf Subpar. Okay, ladies and gents, this one is long overdue,

but it's finally here. We got one of the legendary bagmen of all bagmen with this. Current caddy for Justin Thomas. Also, part-time broadcaster still, the man himself. Jim Bones-McCai. What's up, brother? What's happening? Thanks for having me. Finally, it's here. Yeah, you finally let me in the door. Here we are. You're a busy, we're a busy, man. Here we are. But first off, thank you so much for joining us. It's going to be a lot of fun.

We've obviously both known you for quite a long time, but for the people out there, we've got to get to know you a little better. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess, probably as a young boy, your goal wasn't to be a professional caddy. Tell us some about, like, Jim Bones-McCai as a young fellow. A kid with no money, but there were some golf clubs laying around at the house, lived in this town, New Smyrna Beach, Florida, that by the grace of God had a city-owned municipal

golf course, nine holes of which were designed by Donald Ross, and I could go out there for free after 3 o'clock. And the fact I could do that changed my life. And so I did that 363 or four days a year. Okay. That's it. A couple days. You know, picked the range on occasion, did this or that, but that's where I was. And that place, you know, changed the trajectory of what I have going on. So you were hooked early. I was. I just loved it. And there was a couple of guys, slug or white, as a matter of fact, when I was a little kid, slugger white, spent a lot of time around that area and he would come and play on occasion and you'd be like that guy's on the pga tour and you know that kind of obsession with golf of that level starts for a kid who's

you know nine or ten years old and uh i just remember thinking it was the coolest game ever did he wear the hat back man did you take no cowboy hat no cowboy hat you take any sketchy drops around this is no closer right yeah exactly but you worked your way all the end you played in college i mean you got to tell us a little bit about bones the collegiate golfer. Analyze your game as a broadcaster. Oh my gosh. Just break it down. Unbelievably mediocre at a division two level. Solid. We have the same game. Appreciate it. Would hook one in the woods and for $100 couldn't tell you why the ball went left, which is, you know, what kills you at that, you know, at that age, it bugs me now that at 57,

when I hit a bad shot, I have a good idea why. Back in those days, you know, it could have been any one of a hundred things. I didn't know how the game worked or how the swing worked, but I was an above average chipper and putter and that got me through four years at Columbus college and we had pretty competitive teams and got to do a couple of cool things like one year we went to University of Florida's tournament got paired one of the rounds with Ohio State and I played 18 holes with Jack Nicholas watching you know his son Gary played in our group so silly things like that happened which which was cool when looking back on it but just just grateful that I had a place to play and Columbus, Georgia, as it turned out, was my entree into caddying.

The Jack says, son, you got what it takes. I like what I see out there. I'm a little bit worried about my major record. Maybe find something else. I want to go back to what you said because you said you were a mediocre D2 and he said we have the same game. I just want to know that you said TCU's Division 2. Thank you.

No, I'm talking about my game being mediocre. Don't ever try to spin the word. If there's any spinning going on here, I'll be doing the spinning. By God. All right, well, what got you into caddy? Do you remember your first ever day as a caddy? And what was your, I don't even know, what was your first PGA tour event? It goes actually back to high school.

So you know Johnny Thompson. Oh, yeah. Johnny Thompson is a long time PGA tour rep. And his father played on the tour. His dad's name was Barney, who was a very talented, you know, player at the time from West Virginia. He was a rabbit back in those days, you know, Monday qualifier before the all-exempt tour. But he lived down the street. And for golf balls, I would go down on occasion and babysit Johnny.

So I had this relationship with his mom and dad. And on a couple of occasions, I would say to bar, I'd love to come and caddy for you. And the first time I ever catty was at the Walt Disney World Team Classic. So this would have been around 1980, 81. You can't imagine what they made you where to do it. They basically made the caddies dress like Walt Disney World Park employees. So it's 95 degrees. It's 100% humidity.

We're out there in brown sweater vests and like a goofy hat, you know, caddying. But that was it. and Barney and his partner, Randy Erskine, who was a club pro from Yipslani, Michigan, played really well. And we were in it going into the weekend. I'm like, full on addicted. So I did that a couple times, Caddy to Bay Hill in high school and, of course, went to college. But I got to thinking as I was realizing how bad I was at golf, that this whole caddy thing could be like the coolest job ever. I think I've got to talk to Title.

Let's see if we can get you a goofy hat with titles across of it for one of the tournaments. That's going to make you feel good as a caddy. Like, here's your uni. You're going to be goofy today. You can't imagine. I mean, it was plus fours. It was all knit, sweater vest. And we had to change in this tent and the smell of that tent will travel with me for the rest of my life. It was like something you've never seen. So you got into, that's when you knew like, hey, maybe this catting things for me. But you go on after college. I think you're working at a golf shop at the time. And Larry Mize is a member there or something. And you end up hooking up with him? Yeah, became friends with Larry. I'm making

three bucks an hour working at Green Island Country Club in Columbus, Georgia, the town. I was going to college in. Larry is there practicing, doing his thing. He would come up late in the evenings and hit golf balls from, you know, the back of this one tee across a fairway into some open land and I would go pick up the golf balls for him. And we became close friends. And then the guy wins the masters. And, you know, he's doing his thing. And, you know, now you're so excited for he and his wife and you're keeping up with what's going on. You're very kind of in tune with what's going on on the tour. And this just went on for a period of years. And I finished school and I'm going to take a job at a local bank and, you know, adult life is about to take place. And I'm sitting around with Larry one day at his

dinner table. He said, my caddy and I split up today. This is at the very end of the year, October, November kind of time. And I'm like, really, of course, you know, the wheels are churning in my head. And I said to him, you know, if I could get a leave of absence from this bank, I've never even started at, would you consider taking me on the road for a couple of years? And to his credit, I mean, he never should have done it. I mean, I'm not a caddy. I don't know the courses. I don't know where to day. I don't know what to do, but he was nice enough to let me do that. And in January of 1990, I packed up my little red beat-up car with no air conditioning and drove it across the country from Columbus, Georgia, to Palm Springs. And I was like, wow, this is the greatest adventure of all time.

That's commitment to go from Georgia in your car, no AC, by the way, to Palm Springs, first gig ever. I mean, imagine somebody doing that now. And then did you caddy for him that following April at the Masters? I did. I caddied in 19. My first year cadding, 1990, I caddied for him at the Masters. It was the last year that Cypress Point was on the rotation at Pevel. So I caddied at Cyprus Point. I cattyed the British Open in St. Andrews. And I'm... That was my first year. That was my first year. And he finished about 15th on the money list. So I was out of my mind. So you're, I mean, you're out of college in Georgia, and you're going Cypress Point. And then had you been to Augusta before? Just as a spectator.

Okay, so you'd seen the place. Yes. Yeah. Oh, my God. I get mad. Are you the last cadet ever? He's a patron. Sorry?

Yeah, patron. There you go. No, mud ball. Don't even think of mention a mud ball. You got to be the first caddy ever to never have caddied really as a job before and get a major champion as your first back. Yeah. I mean, it doesn't. Yeah.

Nowadays, it would never be like, no, dude. You got to work the corn fairy, do something for a while. Larry was really, really good. And he got in the middle of some big things. We were playing with Gammes when he hold it on the last hole at Bay Hill. It was just an incredible, you know, first year. He didn't win but came incredibly close. He was actually leading.

I think he and Norman were tiefully when Gammes hold it on 18 at Bay Hill with that seven iron. But just got in the mix a few times, and I was just eyes wide open and just drinking it all in. So how long were you with Larry Mize? Two years. And then you went to me. Yeah. So, you know, he was interested in me, you know, you know, taking up this commitment I had with the bank, I was not interested at all. And, you know, again, he wanted what was best for me. And then I really appreciate that he's one of the finest gentleman I've ever met in my life. But I wanted to stay out there. His close friend, Scott Simpson, he then became between caddies. He said, well, well, were you caddy for me in 92? And I said, great. And the very first term when I ever caddied for him was the, was Palm Springs in 1992. I went to pick. pick him up in a car now that had air conditioning that I driven out there. Thank you. I've graded there. And we're driving to the golf course down 111 there in Palm Springs. It's my first day on

the job. And the guy says to me, hey, by the way, if you ever get offered a job by a player better than me, definitively better than me, I would expect you to take it on the spot. And I'm driving down the street thinking, you know, well, that's so nice of you, but I'm all in. Let's go. Let's go make some birdies kind of thing. But of course, that sticks in the back of your head. And, you know, three or four months later, I ran into the whole Phil situation. So you're one of those guys that feels like still to this day. Like you wake up so excited to go to the golf course and caddy. I love it.

Yeah. That's so awesome. It's in your DNA. I think you and I had a conversation, even when you got into the broadcasting, which you were terrific at, by the way, but I was like, and then you took the job with JT. I was like, dude, that's like where you belong. I just feel like you're a dude that belongs like in the mix out there. And broadcasting is close, but it's probably not the same feeling as being in the arena.

Yeah. The TV job was and is amazing. and I'll do it again at some point down the road, but there's something about caddy, and for me at least, it's really big time in my blood. Would you say like coming down the stretch or even at the start of tournaments,

like are the nerves or is the excitement still the same? Like, do you get nervous before, like, say, the Masters? I've never, I've been nervous one time as a caddy, and that was early in my career with Phil, early in the tournament in Vegas, he had a chance to shoot 59. And for some reason, And back then, you know, people shoot 59 a decent amount these days, but back then, back in their, you know, early mid-90s, it rarely happened.

And there may have been some kind of like cash bonus at the end of the rainbow that somebody was given out if you shot in the 50s. And I remember being nervous that day. But it occurred to me early on that, you know, when you're out there with these guys on Sunday and they're trying to win, you know, they've got so much on their shoulders. They're taking so much home with them at night, as you guys know, on Friday, Saturday night that, you know, I'm having a couple of beers. with my buddies. It's all good for me. So I never felt nervous. Now, I can get, you know, anxious like, let's get out there. Let's get going, whatnot. But I've never felt nervous on a golf course. That's crazy. So take us back. You mentioned, obviously, four months in, you start with Phil. How much did you know about him before you got off for the job? And what were your first thoughts

when you got to see him play up close and personal? I certainly was a guy that read everything about the game, you know, got Golf World magazine every week and, you know, memorize what was going on. So certainly was aware of what he was doing. And at this point, he'd won a couple of NCAAs and was a really big deal. But I came to the Phoenix Open one year and was driving to my favorite record store was down in Tempe. And I went down Scottsdale Road that turned into rural road. And in doing so, before I took a right to go to the record store, that's where the range was, the private range for the ASU golf teams. And this one evening, there was a left hand or hitting balls on the range. So I went into the store, bought my CDs, drove back. The guy was still hitting balls. It was Phil. And I got within,

you know, 20 or 30 feet of him and said, you mind if I watch you hit? hit a few and he said, no, I'll help yourself. I sat down a bench, watched him hit balls for, for 10 minutes and just got in my car and left. That was the first interaction I ever had with him. But you could just tell, you know, you could just look at the way his hands went on the club, you know, in terms like Ballesteros did. It looks like he was born with a club in his hand and the speed and, you know, the wedges and whatnot that the guy was a world beater when at this point he was 2021.

So how did the like job offer come into play? You're out there, you're looping, and all of a sudden, bam, here's the young up-and-comer, all-world kid. How did he know, like, I want bones? Well, so back at that time, there were a couple players like Chris Kirk is now. Chris Kirk has a rotation of caddies. Back in those days, Curtis Strange did that. So Scott Simpson is not playing at the Tucson Open in 1992, but I love me some Curtis Strange. And I had a chance, I had worked for him a few times before, had a chance to work for him that week.

I'm there. it's like a Saturday. Curtis is playing well. He's in the fringes of contention. And, you know, as a caddy, you're standing around waiting for your player to come out. And here comes this guy that looks familiar to me. And it turns out to be Phil's college golf coach, who I'd met once before, who had, you know, he'd been at a couple of different schools. But he came up to me and said, hey, you know, remember me? And I'm like, sure do. And he says, you know, we're looking for a guy for Phil. He's going to turn pro in June. You know, could you give us some names? It was never about me. So we were having a lot. So we were having a guy. this conversation, here comes Curtis, I have to leave abruptly, and that's it. So, you know, I says, got to go by, grab the clubs and follow Curtis to the range. So I just got home after that tournament and just wrote a note, didn't know the guy's address to put, you know, Arizona State Athletic Department, you know, coach Loy, and said, hey, sorry to run off on you like that. Here's my number. If I can help you out in some point, you know, point you in some kind of direction, let me know. It turns out, I guess Philly either saw that note or Loy told him

about the note. And when I met Phil for the first time, really in person, which was at the players, a couple of months later, Phil got in as an amateur. Phil offered me the job. But I will say that it's important to remember that it's kind of thought, as a caddies out there, we all talk all the time, we all go to dinners,

that you never wanna be a great player's first caddy because you're never gonna last. You know, they're always gonna make a change. So I knew, you know, I knew right away, I was gonna, I wanted to take the job with Phil, but the reality of that job and that situation is that he's going to now come out on the tour. He's going to play. There's 150 other caddies out there. He's going to run into some guy. He thinks he's the greatest guy ever who's very, very capable. And that's who he's going to want to have caddy for him. So I didn't have any illusions when I went to work for him. I thought this might last a year or so. I thought maybe my goal was to caddy in one rider cup. And maybe I could get to one rider cup with him and we'll see how it goes. But to his credit, you know, with the kind of guy. he was to work for. I ended up doing 11 in a row with him. That's incredible. Yeah, I had no idea

about that stuff. I didn't know about the note. So was it the note? Did he ever say something to you? Like, hey, I saw the note. I was like a guy that would do this would be the kind of guy I want to have. I don't think so. He might have said that, you know, I heard you wrote a note or something like that. But it was just that was the way it worked. And it was very, very quick. You know, that day, I'm actually counting for Scott Simpson in a practice round at the players. We're playing with the first alternate, who I'm almost positive, was Gary McCord. It's normally an alternate. So it's Simpson, McCord, and Phil on the 10th T at the players.

And we're waiting for the fair way to clear, and this conversation happens between Phil and I. And I said, can I think about it while we're out here for a couple hours, you know, because it completely caught me off guard. And, of course, every, you know, every Adam in your body is screaming. You got to do this. I'm doing it. I just can't do it right now. You know, and right, right.

So, you know, it was an easy question to answer. Yeah, and y'all obviously went on this incredible run. And you're back in the 90s, and I feel like the characters back then were much different than they are nowadays. Unbelievable. I was like the golden era, maybe, I think. I feel like I missed my era. Like, I needed to be back in the 90s.

That's a great point. That's a great point. First off, you added straight and short back then to it worked out great. But I want to know who were like some of the guys back then you looked forward to getting paired with because, I mean, they're big characters. You know, they're going to the bar afterwards, not to the gym. Oh, my gosh. How much time do we have?

There's so many. As much as you want. Yeah. No, it was just, there were just so many great guys. I mean, you know, first of all, this, you know, everyone's going to be disappointed by this answer, but you can't undersell Fred couples. You know what I mean? Certainly, you know, that was when Fred was coming on the scene. I mean, he played some good golf in the late 80s. But I became really good friends with Joe Likava. He became my best friend and a guy I traveled with on the road. So I spent an inordinate amount of time with Fred. And those stories are, you know, I've always said that if there's a book called The Adventures of Fred and Joe, it'll be the best-selling golf book of all time because every night was just incredible, you know, finding the best Italian spot in town, going to a, you know, a ball game or a hockey game. It was just like I was living my dream, you know, I mean, I was so, so lucky to be in the middle of this. But I don't know, you know, guys like Joey Sindelar and guys like Mike Donald, I mean, the real characters. And it was just, it was just, it was an amazing time. you know, Jeff Sleumann was a blast to be around.

Jeff Sleum could get you in trouble because he was so funny. You know, you'd lose it at a time when a cat he shouldn't be losing. I remember he used to have this deal with polo and all of his shirts, you know, would have a little pocket right here. And for whatever reason, a scorecard would fit in it perfectly vertically. And he'd be out there, like taking practice rings like he's about to go see off in the Masters with his scorecard coming out of his pocket. I mean, it's one of those.

You had to be there moments. But just as you said, these guys are character. and they were hilarious to be with. That's the goal. That is the golden era of like characters. That is pre-social media, pre everything, you know, like guys were actually going out and doing stuff. But Freddie actually is the one that gave you your nickname, right?

Everyone knows you as bones. I mean, you have people out there. Like you say bones, they know what you're talking about. He gave it to you. Can you give us the story how that came about? Yeah. Three months into cadding with Larry Mize tournament in Paris. Nobody knows your name.

Nobody really cares to know your name because they're sure at this point. This new skinny kid from Georgia is not going to last. And so Larry, he said, let's go to Paris for this event. I was like, wow, Paris, great. You know, again, you're over there seeing things you never thought you'd see. All the players, their wives and the caddies would go to dinner together at night. And four or five nights in, we go to someplace after a round, and it's buffet style. Fred's, you know, hungry and tired and wants to go to bed. He's the first guy through the line, you know, gets this steaming plate of food, goes over and

sits down a table, sits down, no silverware, looks up, the silverware, you know, 26 feet away. There's no chance he's walking that as 26 feet. He's a tall, skinny guy, very close to said silverware, and just start screaming out these random names, none of which are mine. I'm so skinny. He yells out bones. I turn around, bring him a knife and fork, and he calls me bones the rest of the trip. But, you know, I have to say, and I say it all the time, back in those days, and we're talking,

you know, the golden age, if you will, a ton of caddies had nicknames you would not want to tell grandma. Well, we got to save that, but we're going to get it. That's one of my questions later on because I love caddy nicknames. Okay. When he calls you that, did you know at that point? Like, that's what I'm going to be called for the rest of my life. This will be forever what I'm known as in the golf world.

John Cook was on that trip. John Cook was calling me bones on the range of next day, something like that. I was like, okay. And I was thrilled, given some of the other nicknames floating around. You know what? I'll take bones. I'll take it. You can just never get big.

Yeah. Or it has to be like ironic. I love the nickname. This is going to be great. But obviously, fill in 92. Then late 96, early 907, a fellow named Tiger Woods comes along. Yes, he does. Are you?

Okay, let's get into your first time seeing Tiger up close and personal. Man, I'll say this. In the fall of 1996, I had some friends who were in this band, R.E.M. And they were in Vegas to do something. And I was going to go to dinner with him with a PGA tour golfer by the name of Davis Love the Third. And Davis Love the Third was late to dinner because he was losing in a playoff to Tiger Woods. You know, Tiger's very first PGA tour victory. And I'll never forget, you know, Davis coming in and sitting down and, you know,

dang it, you know, I had my chances and this and that. And then the kid did this and the kid did that. And, you know, none of us knew how great Tiger was going to be. We knew we've won these amateurs and the junior amateurs and all this stuff and the swing looked like just syrupy perfection. But I just remember, you know, Davis, you know, really not wanting to be the first guy that, you know, didn't beat him down the stretch. And then, of course, you know, it starts to sink in.

you know kind of what's going on and it was remarkable i i think the first time we didn't get paired for tiger for a while because he would they would always put he and phil on the other side of the draw which went on for years okay were you a fan of that or no i wasn't because i wanted to watch the guy played like everybody else wanted to watch and they're trying to build a rivalry they're trying to build this as phil tiger's like well dude maybe put them together one time you can control the first well at the same do it way that there's not many people in between they want people watching both sides But it's like, dude, if you're trying to build this as like, these are the two dudes, how about you put him head to head a couple times?

I mean, I don't know the stat and I don't want to make a fool of myself. But if you told me it was double-digit years that we went without playing with him on a Thursday and Friday, I wouldn't be surprised. It was just forever. But I saw him play at Wingfoot at the PGA that Davis won. And the thing that just blew me away was the available speed. You know, the swing was gorgeous. And, of course, he's working with Butch.

and I just remember a couple of times where, you know, he obviously, to get a club from A to B and to get the ball stopped, he had to do something fairly outrageous in terms of the speed he would generate and he'd do it. And the ball would come down with a thread and go like, you know, a foot from the ballmark and you're like, oh, boy. And then you start getting paired with him late on Sunday at the Masters and things like that. And it's like, oh, boy, you know. But I wouldn't change it for anything. I mean, we can sit here and talk about Tiger and tell Tiger stories. I mean, you know, it's like the Duval quote that's been going around for a few years now in the tour where, you know, some of the, maybe some young guy said to him, geez, you know, I wish I could have played against Tiger and his prime.

And Duval was like, no, you don't. Yeah. I mean, it was really, really tough. And what it would do, you know, Phil took heat a couple of times, you know, for decisions he made down the stretch or, you know, or things that happened down the stretch in PJ Tour vans. when we're trying to beat Tiger, a guy that doesn't make bogeys. You know, it's a whole different bowl of cherries when you're pulling the club and you're playing against somebody else maybe that, you know, trying to win a tournament. But there were certainly a couple of times when we were planning like,

well, we got to do A, B, and C here because what's the likelihood that this guy's going to make a score over par? You know what I mean? Because he was just that good. It seemed for a while there wasn't anything on the tour, ball striking, putting, pitching the ball, where he wasn't the very best on the tour at it. That's kind of tough to beat. It's kind of tough to be. I mean, you were out there in the arena when obviously, I mean, it's not arguably.

It's the two best players of that era going at it head to head. I mean, I think back to Pebble Beach when Phil Schott 64 to get the win. But what was the atmosphere like that when those two got paired together? It was crazy, especially if it was at San Diego. Actually, I'm not sure they ever got paired together at San Diego, but they went at it in San Diego, you know, in the last couple of groups. and I remember there was some kid who had this extended driver shaft with a tiger's famous head cover, Tiger head cover, and like we would walk between greens and teas and the guy would hold the head cover over our head as we were walking the next day. He was, the crowd was involved.

Phil was from San Diego. Tiger was from up the road and Tiger was Tiger. He had this incredible following. But it was super, super cool. And I will say there were a couple of times when you're out there just budding heads with this guy. and Tiger would come over to you and in a quiet moment go, no matter what happens

the next half an hour, this has been fun. And I've always really respected him about that because no one needs to tell me how much he wants to win and how much Phil wants to win. But I think Tiger really enjoyed the process. You know what I mean?

He really enjoyed going head to head with somebody. And of course he won, you know, 99% of the time it seemed like, but it was fun to be out there. He probably just enjoyed being challenged because there's not that many guys realistic, If he's playing well, close to an A game, like there's not that many guys that can really hang around.

And Phil was probably one of the one guys who could. Phil actually said something to me one time that I've never thought about until he said it, but he's like, you look at all the great players in the history of golf, they're one of two things. They're either great technicians or they're great artists, right? Nick Fowl, great technician, swing, all that stuff.

He's like, savvy, artists, clearly, that type of guy. He said, Tiger Woods is the first guy ever to be the world's greatest technician in golf swing and the greatest artist at the same time. Yeah, I mean, I couldn't agree more. I also think, too, this is a caddy perspective here that professional golfers at that level fall into one of two categories, blamers and non-blamers. And for me personally, you know, you sit out there, you know, one of the things you do as a caddy is you observe. You look around the range.

You see what's going on. And it's not easy to kind of figure out what's happening in certain situations. And both Tiger and Phil, you know, I never caddy for Tiger, but I'm quite aware of how he operates. I feel it's fair to say. And, you know, Phil was a guy that if we were, you know, in the 18th hole at Riviera, and he likes seven iron and I like six iron, and I talk him into the six, and he hits it in the hot dog stand over the green and we lose the tournament, he was a guy that would say to me as bad as I would have felt, that's okay,

I'm the guy that takes the club out of the bag. And that really opens up your caddy to, you know, A, not walk around on eggshells, really be themselves, have an opinion. and both Tiger and Phil were like that. And when I look around, you know, at these guys, you know, some of these guys to me that are constantly looking for someone to point the finger at. You know, my omelet was no good this morning. My manager is doing a bad job.

This shaft in my driver really isn't working the way it should. To me, those guys that are looking for things to blame their poor play on, they're almost always going to be underachievers. That's it. Yeah, there's a lot of guys. I mean, I think golfers in general, just like, Blan, something a bad lie whatever like rarely like you a lot of them don't take ownership you got to own like dude you got it wrong side of the draw yeah i always got the bad way that's just factual

always got always had it always had the bad wave we want to talk about one specific event in particular the 2004 rider cup which i think is one that still gets talked about with how sutt and obviously they paired tiger and filled together they did which was kind of unexpected okay was it something that y'all knew going in like hey this is probably going to happen and what was your first thought when you're like, okay, this is like, we're going to go do this. It was not planned, or at least as far as I knew. I didn't really have an idea that it was going to happen until the day before. They didn't want anybody to know it.

And so Oakland Hills is a big property. There might be two golf courses there. Of course, we were just on one of them. But Phil came to me and said, listen, we're playing with Tiger the first day and we're playing with him an alternate shot. And of course, I needed to defer to Tiger, so we use his golf ball. it's going to be radically different than ours. You and I are going to go to the other side of the property here

with 40 of his balls and try and figure out what we need to do with it. So that was the first I heard of it. And we went and did what Phil wanted to and certainly the golf balls were radically different. But there we were the next day on the first day, ready to roll. Wow. What surprised you more of the fact that you were paired together the first time or the fact that you got paired together the second time?

The first I can kind of see like, let's throw our beasts out there. We'll smack them in the mouth, make a statement. All right, it failed. Maybe bring it back. With all due respect to everybody involved and it's easy to second guess and play Monday morning quarterback. Yeah, I thought that after they didn't win that first match against Harrington and Montgomery who played very well,

I thought let's just let this go. Yeah, I think that's the big shocker. That was just like, let me take one more chance to show that I wasn't totally ridiculous. Eventually they're going to win. They're pretty damn good at this game. Do you have a, you've been a part of virtually every team competition for years and years and years, I mean, going back, right?

Do you have one that sticks out, like, that's my favorite memory, that moment right there, on the team side, not an individual? There would be a couple of memories. If I have 20 seconds for a story here. You have time you want. Seven hours for a story, if you want. So in 1993, Phil wins the international. Great tournament.

Great tournament. I can't wait. I think we're going back there for the BMW here in the next couple years. Yeah, 24. Yeah, George Solich at the helm there at Castle Bind. George got it done. George, George Solich, we'll get it done. Let me tell you something.

So, Phil wins the tournament. I got a couple extra bucks. And a couple weeks later is the Ryder Cup. Phil's not on the team. And I'm obsessed with the Ryder Cup. I just think it's the coolest thing ever, but I've never been to one. It is.

So Joe Lakov is like, well, Fred's on the team. Come over and crash on the floor and wherever I'm staying. I'm like, I am there. So I buy myself a ticket. I fly over to Birmingham, England, and I am here.

hanging out in the crowd at the Ryder Cup. But this is pre-assistant captains and caddy captains and all the stuff that you see the day. It was Tom Watson as the captain. His longtime teacher, his name was Stan Thirsk, is his assistant, and that's it. You got, I think two guys from an administrative standpoint. So I get over there and certain things, you know, I need a jacket, I need a dozen balls. All of a sudden, they give me a credential and I'm team gopher.

And I'm the happiest guy. Fantastic gig. So, you know, come Friday morning, you start of the tournament, you know, I'm in the team room now and I'm sitting around in the corner and there's this fog. So guys have warmed up and there's this fog delay and guys are nervous. I mean, you know, if guys are really, really going to get nervous for me, it's going to be at the Ryder Cup, especially if it's their first or their first overseas. And this fog delay comes in and I want to say that the first group out that day was going

to be Kite and Davis Love. So we're all in the team room ready for the fog to clear and these guys are going to have to go straight to the clay to the tea. Guys are sitting around. Guys are eating for the 10th time. Guys are just really nervous. And Fred is at a corner of the room where all the bags are lined up and he's just going through everybody's bag, just checking out what you got. So he's making his way bag to bag, bag, bag to bag. He takes out Davis's nine iron waggles it.

The head falls off the shaft and bounces down his marble turquets. You know, ding, ding, ding. He was just wagling it? waggling the head falls off the shaft. Better than an hour later. And everyone just made this really loud noise. We were watching this thing bounce down the stairs. And as this thing comes to stop, a guy comes and he goes, five minute call, love and kite.

And Davis picks this thing up, hands it to me and says, get it fixed. Now this is 1993. A little more difficult. Yeah, 1993. And there are no trucks on the property. and somebody says to me, I don't know who, but this person really said they, if you run towards that farm over there, there's a little guy in his pickup truck who's got six grips in the back and is, you know, hoping to help out some, and some epoxy, he's your guy. And it was like literally,

it might have been two miles. But off I sat and I'm running across fields and this and that in front of them through cows, literally. And I find this guy where they allowed him to park. And he epoxys this thing. And by the time I get back, they're on four, or five or something like that. But what was crazy was I did this, and then I went about my job, you know, getting guys sandwiches, whatever. And then the Ryder Cup comes to an end that Sunday,

and it comes down to Davis Love's match. And he's playing against Constantino Rocha, and the 18th hole of the Belfrey is the hardest driving hole in the world. Maybe it's a little, it's like 18 at TPC sawgrass, but harder. Just dog legs and that water just stays on the left edge the whole way. And Davis Love hits his three-word off the tee.

I'll never forget. carries everything. You know, you couldn't, you know, 295 yards. It puts so much heat on Roca, who then flare went out to the right. So Davis is in this position where he's going to have to make par to win the rider cup. And he hits his short out on the green, leaves his first putt short and makes the six foot to win the rider cup. You know, arms go up in the air. And we all go nuts out on the green and we're all at their hugging and all this stuff. And I'm staying at the side because I'm not that much a part of the team. And Davis comes over, hugs me and says, that was your nine iron.

that I had gotten fixed or in the week. And I'm in this kid, you know what I mean? And, you know, it just... You said, you won the Rydder Cup. I mean, you know what I mean? But that was how it makes you feel. Yeah, it blew my mind. And like, as in love and obsessed with the Rider Cup as I was then, in that second,

I became even more so. So that experience and what's crazy and no one needs to tell me how crazy blessed is I've been inside the ropes at every single team events since. So between catting and TV, I haven't missed since 93, and I just think they're, like, when we go to the President's Cup here shortly, I can't wait to watch Max Homa at the President's Cup. You know, people that we know and love and you know what it is, and maybe they haven't had that experience yet. I cannot wait for Max Homa to get the President's Cup. And how much he's been wanting to be a part of one of those for a while. What are he doing the first round, Davis Club?

Just no nine iron? Until it got out there, yeah. You can run it out there as fast as I could, yeah. It's better than having 15. It's better than having 15. Yeah, you hit that little three-finger eight iron pro. Yeah, dude, I thought you're a shotmaker. You're pro, bud.

But obviously, we could do four hours with you. We don't have that much time. But I want to talk about your new boss a little bit. Justin Thomas, because I've known this guy since he was rather young, absolute superstar. I know there was only a couple of guys that could possibly get you out of the TV gig. And Justin Thomas came calling. I mean, it's got to be incredibly. I picked up a major championship this year.

what makes JT so special in your opinion? There's three or four things. First of all, I can't say enough about his work ethic. I love the fact that the range or wherever we are out there practicing, that's his office. And he'll tell a story or he'll say hello to Jordan or this or that, but that he does not hit a golf ball unless he's 100% invested. I love that about a player. You hear stories about how hard he works when he's home.

During the pandemic, he was a guy that woke. up every day and, you know, it would have been easy to say, well, I'm going to go to the pool and have a drink with my girlfriend or whatever the case may be, but he wakes up and thinks, how can I get better at golf today? So that's something. He's a hell of a human being. You know, I tell this story, you know, I told it on y'all's radio show, just, you know, about climbing hills and Capulah and him supporting the bottom of the bag and stuff like that and taking weight off my shoulder, something that, you know, says a lot to me. It's like, you know, somebody opening a car door for you. It's just, you know, he's just that guy.

I love spending time around him, and he's really, really good. I think when I did TV, I would say on the air, I think he's the most talented player in the game. I think he's got more shots than any player in the game. No one needs to tell me how many great players there are on the PGA tour at this moment in time. It's an amazing time to be out there, but I'll take me some JT any day when we're out there. I'm with you. I mean, it's special to watch. Moves it around more than any current guy that I can think.

I was so I got to ask about your first toll ever caddying for him, the 2020 in Memphis. Yeah. Did you know that story? No, I don't know this. Oh, okay. I've told that. We're about to know it. Yeah.

Yeah. So his caddy was a little unwell in 2020, and I had catty for him once before, and I get this call saying, can you come overnight and catty for me in Memphis? So I do. So I get there for the Wednesday practice round. I take a red eye. I don't sleep. I'm a mess. You know, and I somehow get through that day.

and the next day is the first round. So we're starting there on the first hole of Memphis, pandemic, no spectators. And he gets up and hits a pretty decent block off the first tee. So I know this is not, you know, the place we want to be. It's certainly not in the middle of fairway. We're going to have to deal with some things. So my catty brain tells me, get your ass off the tea, jog out there and kind of set up what you need to get set up for your player before he gets there.

So I do just that. And I get out there and we've got these trees in front of us. And, you know, the shot link guys are in the, there and there's this little kind of window in the trees. And I'm like, okay, so I've, let's move this cable. Let's move that steak. Yeah, can we move the shot link equipment to the side? And he gets there, and by the time I've done all, gone through this entire process, I'm standing there ready to go. And he's now standing next to me. He's looking at me. He goes, what are you doing? He goes, I said, I'm getting everything out of the way. He goes, I'm pitching it out sideways into

the fairway. Good effort, though. Yeah. And it hit me. I was like, oh, that's right. I had caddy for, you know, Phil for 25 years. And if there was a gap, there was no question where we were going. You know, JT wedged it out and sideways. I was like, yeah, that whole wedge out thing. I've heard of that, you know, so it was funny. You got that shot? You got the wedge?

You got the pitch out? Really? Just sideways? Yeah, what we could hit from the fairway? What about that little one foot by one foot? Exactly. That's awesome. First hole. First hole.

Moving all the shit out of the way. No, dude, I'm just going sideways. Now I'm apologizing to the shot link. I'm sorry about that, guys. Sorry about that guys. Oh my God. That's great. All right.

give me this right here we're on j t topic let's say j t's run a little hot right you got a couple bogs in a row you can tell he's just not where he needs to be if he gets in a situation like that what's the way to handle i feel like every player's different is he a rah rah pep me up hey everything's okay let's go get him bud or is he just leave me alone and let me operate it's still situation that would you know is it Thursday you know if it's sunday you know if it's sunday you know and he's just gone from second to fourth. That's one conversation. And, you know, Thursday where, you know, he's, okay.

Now, you know, he's turned five under into three under kind of where he's. I think it's still situational, but, you know, he's, the great thing about him is, again, you're not walking on any kind of eggshell around the guy. You can, you know, try and tell him something funny. You can leave him alone. You know, to me, a big part of cadding is reading the room. So whatever the situation may be, hopefully I'll get that part of it right. Is that the biggest part, like switching guys doing, you know,

You've got it for a couple of different guys in the interim there. Is it knowing like how to get my guy comfortable, how to get the best out of my guy, knowing like this pisses him off, dude. If I get him a raw, raw right now, he's going to freaking freak out. Yeah, no, exactly. And one of the things I said to Justin when I started was it's my job to adjust to you, not your job to adjust to me. Man, if anything goes on out here, I don't care how big or small that makes you in the least been uncomfortable,

please say something right away. I will make the adjustment. And so, again, that's part of my job. And again, you get to know these guys really, really well. And he's an incredibly, you know, inviting guy. So, you know, one of the most enjoyable weeks I've had this entire year. We went to Canada for the Canadian Open where we got involved in that incredible shootout with Rory there on the last day.

And Justin and I and his dad stayed in the house on the perimeter of the golf course. And we had a ball going to dinners and getting Chipotle and stuff like that. Man, it was so much fun. I mean, he's just that guy. So, you know, again, spending time with him away from him. from the course, I get to know them that much better, and I couldn't, you know, I couldn't ask for a better boss. Yeah, you got to be like part sports psychologist, like majority maybe sports psychologist. You got to hopefully know your place and know, you know, when the right time is.

How cool has it been to see Tiger kind of become his big brother over these last several years? I mean, they've become extremely close. And so we probably never, I mean, obviously when Tiger was competing at his best, this didn't happen. But now here's Tiger with Justin Thomas. How much has Tiger meant to him? couldn't possibly put it into words. I mean, that relationship is special. And I certainly, you know, you want to show it the respect that it deserves, but it's, it's amazing.

And Tiger is just, Tiger is an amazing guy, you know, and he cares and he's so freaking smart. And he remembers everything. And, you know, again, it speaks for these, you know, these team events. And, you know, you get guys like, you know, Justin and Fred and Tiger. I mean, those three guys tend to play practice rounds at Augusta. You talk about fun as a caddy. Just grab the bag and listen to those three guys, you know, you know, chirp at it for, you know, nine or 18 holes. It's just, you know, it's amazing to be around him.

And I can't say enough for Tiger, you know, as the human he is, as the dad that he is. And of course, my great friend, Joe La Cava works for him now. It's just, it's just amazing. And for Justin to have that resource. if you will, because I think that if Justin's really, you know, bothered by something that's going on within his golf game or curious about this or that or this golf course we're about to go to for the first time, you know, if he's lucky enough to have that guy, you know, in his corner, I mean, that's maybe the single greatest resource you could have.

And, and I love it for my boss that he has that. No doubt. And I got to tell you one quick story because we were at the Masters this year. It was Monday. I'll never forget. We were walking from the range, past the pro shop out there to the first hole. And it comes out right there, right when the hill starts to go up and there is just ridiculously amounts of people and I'm like oh my god all of a sudden here comes tiger Fred and JT and I'm like uh sleeves let's go to the second nine let's go to the second nine because we ain't gonna be able to see shit this right I was like dude if this is like I don't I don't know we can do this we couldn't even walk yeah I have a picture of that on my phone that

somebody took from the dog leg you know 200 yards down the way and you're right I've never seen I mean Monday 15 18 deep it that was wild and cool And, you know, when we teed off on Friday at the Open Championship this year, we were going down one as Tiger was coming up 18. And, you know, there you are playing in, you know, the oldest major championship, I think, in the world. And, you know, you're hearing this applause and these cheers rained down for Tiger. Tiger was, you know, obviously going to be emotional coming down.

And it was amazing to me because it was J.T. Hovland and another, you know, world-class player. and those guys, as Tiger was putting down on 18, they're now playing the first hole at the old course there. They're walking that hole backwards. They're not looking at whether their balls in a divot or what the wind's doing. They just want to watch Tiger put out on 18.

And it was another one of those kind of pinch me moments where I just said to myself, this is so freaking cool that I, that you're, you know. Going back 20 years ago, because for a long time, I mean, Tiger was a black box. Media gives you no information. From what I told, like other players, He wasn't going to reveal anything or give anything up.

Now to see him 20 plus years later, taking JT. is that a shock to you that this guy would kind of be a mentor at this point in his career, but given that for so long, he didn't give much. Yeah, that's a really good question. I'm not shocked because I feel like that I've known Tiger well enough to know what's going on. I mean, certainly, you know, out there trying to beat the guy on Sunday, he's that Tiger Woods that we all would expect. but he's just he's a very caring again super human being and and and i think i'd seen enough of that

um you know on the range on tuesday or even in those occasions where you were trying to beat him when he'd come over and say something to you uh he's just a good dude and so i'm not shocked that he's turned out to be the the incredible guy to these youngsters that he has it's cool that he's willing to do it because like you're the best resource in the world to not share or pass along some of the stuff you know these guys would be a shame but he's definitely like softened it seems like all right guys the beneficiary

I think we should get to the E9 even though we could go we're just gonna have to do another episode with you because I haven't even got to go back bud I'm supposed to hear about some of my favorite Joe La Cava stories I haven't gotten any of these but we got to go to the E9 because these are fun I think we should skip the first one honestly and just throwing an extra one because I got I got like E12 question E9 do you ever have

huge regrets about not going working as a bank teller and all the experience you should have done that you could have had some angry customers on a break-a-chargeback. No, it's funny. There were a couple guys that worked down the bank that I'd see them on occasion when the tour would go. You're making a mistake here.

And they were looking out for me. And I was like, I don't think I'm making a mistake here, you know? It turned out all right. One of the most famous people in the world now, but whatever. No big deal. We mentioned it earlier, the caddy nicknames. Yes. Okay.

I mean, yours is up there. You got fluff. Last Call, Lance. Right. Give us a couple of the great catty nicknames out there. Well, you know, there was a guy that you would talk to who, for whatever reason when he talked to, his eyes were always half open. And Stadders caddy, Jeff Duff, nicknamed him Dusty Trails, because he always looked like he just

walked down one, you know, stuff like that. And then, of course, you know, there was a caddy that, you know, it seemed like no matter what he did, he couldn't possibly lose his job, even though he was late a lot and stuff like that. And his nickname was asbestos because he was fireproof. I thought that was clever. And then when we were out there again in the 90s when the feds were looking for the Unabomber. And they had that, you know, famous Unabomber sketch with the hoodie and the Raybans. And sure enough, this catty shows up. He looks identical to this police lineup sketch. We're like, of course, he was the Unabomber for a while. So, you know, it was, it was just great and a lot of good fun. But it was, I mean, you know, I don't, you know, a lot of them were,

you know, R-rated and I don't want to go too far down that road. But it was, it was good. That's awesome. That's a daddy nickname. Following the, actually, I'll save that for a later question. I did an average. I did an average. for you bones, okay? I took your career trying to find this answer. I'm giving you six miles on average per round that you walk as a caddy, okay? Five days a week and giving you nine for practice rounds. Could be a little bit more. Twenty-two events per year. How many more years do you need to caddy until you have walked the total circumference of the earth? Okay, so. Oh shit, you know it? I might know this. So a guy came up to us once. You know, you're cadding. People come up to you and they have

interesting things to say. Like, I can fix your boss's swing or, you know, you know, whatever you run into interesting people on the road and I did have a guy come up to us who had gotten into this because he was he'd done the steps and I know that we can get it up in that 17 18 19000s you know because the thing about caddies is we're walking backwards a lot that's what this doesn't factor in so this is super conservative by the way somebody told me that that somebody told me that at one point they thought I'd walked around the earth with a bag on my back more than once and and they thought bordering on twice I don't know So yeah, you know, you do a little walking.

Get some steps in. Got my steps in. Yeah. Earth is 24,900 miles in circumference. According to my calculation, you're almost at 20,000, but like I said, it's super light. Because by the way, it doesn't count rider cups, President's Cups. Right.

You're broadcasting. Walking the course. Walking the course. In between yardages and back and forth, and circling around the green. Like, I think you've walked more than around the earth. Is that weird to think? Or walking back to the hotel if Jolakava leaves you high and dry in the park. Right.

Or going to get the fork for fresh. when you didn't know your name. Like there's another few steps. You've been around the globe, bud. Thanks, Joe. Okay, perfect. We can get right into that right now. You have a 10-foot putt for your life.

You don't get to hit it. You have to choose between your three good buddies that all happen to be caddies as well. Joe La Cava, Joe Scobran, Michael Greller. Wow. Who you choosing to make this? This might come as a surprise. Joe La Cava is a very strong, thick dude.

He's got great hands. He is an above-average putter. He's got a putter that's about 40 years old. It'll never leave his bag. But Joe can play. And as those other guys can too, and a couple of years ago, Joe would never tell people this, but he and his son, Joseph, won the Connecticut State Father's Son championship in whatever division they were in.

So he loves to play. He played very well at Pine Valley recently when we were in the Delaware area. He came down during that. But I would pick Joe for sure. All right, Joe LaCoff. Perfect. Well, I do. Stop just doesn't have the heart for that, I don't think.

You don't have that killer. You don't have that killer. I thought it was going to be grinding. Let me tell you, Scob 2.0, he's coming. He's coming. I got to hear, though, real quick, your thoughts on Michael Greller's golf game over in Scotland. Let me tell you something. While we're at it.

To anybody out there, if you've got a member guest coming up, send a private jet from Michael Greller because, A, he will be the most amazing partner you'll ever have. He will drink and smoke cigars with you, and he will bring it on the golf course. We found out about Greller. You know, my joke about Greller is that he can't hit a seven iron over a car because he hits it so low. But we realized, you know, when we went on this trip in the UK where he was playing as like a six or a seven and I was playing as a four, that he hits it so hard and so low, he's hitting it 420 off the T over there. And he was virtually unbeatable. So we had so much fun.

And we're destroying guys. We're playing against at Muirfield and at St. Andrews. And we had a blast. He's a lynx guy, dude. He's a Linc. Yeah, he plays it. Golf is meant to be played on the ground. If your course is soft, don't call it.

He's an O. Yeah. You got to go to the air, don't call it. Yeah. Maybe don't call him. I will say he's the most enjoyable person to play golf with. I've ever played golf with my life. That includes, you know, some touring pros and this and that.

Greller is the same way, but Greller is next level fun to play golf. That's awesome. All right. Greller, shout out Greller. All right, here we go. We're going to golf geek out here for a minute. You've seen virtually every golf course on planet Earth that's of note. So if you could pick.

the three rotating major championship venues outside of Augusta, obviously, for the Bones' ultimate major championship lineup, what would they be? So for the guys to play on the tour? Yeah, you get to set the majors for next year. They're going to be anywhere you want outside of Augusta. No question that Shinnecock would be on that list. I think for top players, Shinnecock is it's unfortunate that they've run into some setup issues the last couple times they've had U.S. opens, but I think that course is amazing. I think that Riviera in Los Angeles is amazing. amazing. So it would be those two for sure on different coasts. And then we can, you know, we can throw others in there. Obviously, there's amazing courses everywhere. You know,

Pebble, obviously, so many in that New York area. But those two would be a lock. And then I would have to rotate the third in and out. For the Open Championship? Yes. Okay. Between what? Your favorites? I'll just go Pebble. Pebble for the Open Championship. Yeah. What about the British Open? Oh, I'm excuse me. We could say Riviera for the PGA. Okay. I think this is what you were in the Open.

I'm sorry, I missed that. And then what would you choose for the open championship? Over there. Yeah. I would say St. Andrews because, you know, I think I understand why people say, you know, they freak out at Muirfield, you know, in terms of the layout. But the thing about Muirfield is it's not nearly as scenic. It's not really on the water. And I'm a big fan of St. Andrews.

Granted, it's gotten pretty small, but to me, it's just like a Hollywood movie set. And I cannot figure out how they haven't had a Ryder Cup there in our lifetimes. Because the thought of a Ryder Cup match ending on 17 there with those spectator grandstands behind the road there, I just think you see guys win holes with sixes and threes and God knows what in the roadhole bunker. I just love to see that. They're having a walker cap. pretty big role in this year's major open championship. I got the Walker Cup coming there

next year, yeah, 2023. And then how about these kids? If you stay two years and you're an elite amateur, 23, Walker Cup, St. Andrews, 25, Cyprus. Unbelievable. Cool. Stay AM. Yeah, stay AM fellas. You can get paid as an AM now. Yeah. All right, that's the Bones lineup. That's a hell of a line. I love the RIV call. It doesn't get it enough. All right, you've done a number of the playing lessons with the pros

on Golf Channel. You've had the likes of Max Homa, Wyndham Clark, Patty Tabatantanick. Cantlay, many of them. I want to know whose episode took the most editing, because I know they all didn't just striping around there every hole. I will say, you get out there with the one, please say the one, please say the one. Please, God, be the right answer. Oh, my gosh.

Oh, my God. I will say we get out there with Cantlay, and the first shot they've got him hitting in the whole process is like a three iron par three there at the Bears Club, and he hit it to four inches. That was the, I was, that was real first take. That was real. stacked it to this. It's like two-finding into the wind. Of course they did. You know, and you think you're going to spend 45 minutes shooting this hole. The guy hits it, you know, that close and you're moving on. No, there's no question that if you're going to hear profanity come out of my mouth, it's going to be at a playing lesson shoot because I'm the guy making the mistakes. So I'm the guy that's constantly, you know, you know, tripping on what I'm trying to say and things along those lines. But we've had a good time. Max was great. It's been fun. Did you have one in mind that you thought? We were hoping it was Windham,

just so I could dump on him a little bit. It definitely was. He's just too nice to say it. It's definitely Windham in terms of like, I didn't like my hair. That's my bad side. All I remember about those shoots, because they were in Vegas.

It was very windy and cold, and we had a no show that week. But Colin Morikawa and Windham Clark were out there, and they were troopers and fantastic, and we really appreciate them showing up. That's awesome. I can't believe you can't lace.

When I first saw, I turned it on, I was like, that's nine shots in. There's no way that was straight out the guy. And Can't Lay, I mean, have you had Can'tley on this show yet? No, he's actually been wearing me out about that, actually. I said, you know, Patrick, on these podcasts, we talk. Yeah.

We enjoy opinions and stories. Like, I'm out there with him and, of course, you've got time and you're learning more about the guy. And he told me this amazing thing that I love about him. And I hope I don't get it wrong. He doesn't listen to any music made during 1978 or later. it's like 77 or before there's like a specific bam right there and music started to suck yeah this is this is January 1 this year and just listening to him and and and and and why he thinks what he thinks

I mean that guy's a beauty and I love being around it comes on we're not going to be talking about music I would love to have no clue like genuinely he's the guy would love to have on and for an hour and half and not talk about golf one time I think his brain goes everywhere and has original thoughts on a lot of I think he'd be a blast. This is just no golf, dude. We're going to talk about all kinds of stuff. You hit the nail in the head, original thoughts, and that dude is smart. Yeah, he'd be a fun one.

Just zero golf. We know your golf. You're real good. Let's talk about some other shit. He'd be awesome. All right. Reality show, this is what I was getting to earlier with all the caddies. Reality show is going to be made falling around one current PJ tour or caddy for the entire year.

Who's the best entertainment? Oh, my gosh. One? You could throw champions in there, too, if you want to get. I mean, I will say this. If they'd have done it in 1992. and done La Cava, like it would have shut down the TV industry because nothing else would have been watched.

It would have been working for Fred. And again, all that that entailed and the fun that they had on the road, you know, that would have been the easy answer back then. You know, now, you know, I think you got to go off the top of my head. You got to go Greller because he's such an interesting guy. He's this devoted dad at home. He's got two young children. But he has this awesome relationship with Jordan where, like, recently we were in the

Northeast for a tournament. And Jordan's like, okay, you know, we're going to play Pine Valley tomorrow. And he's out there and you're out there with your rental clubs and your tennis shoes and you're slashing it around and having fun. And, you know, those guys, you know, between Jordan and Justin Thomas and, of course, Grillo, those three guys, those guys have had a lot of fun. You can tell, they can tell a lot of stories about each other over the years. And I just like being a fly on the wall and listening to it. But Greller is a fascinating guy. And to me, his backstory, the whole, you know, elementary school teacher and where he came from and how he got on the PGA tour. If I can just say for a second that he very early in our relationship, he showed me

these photographs he had on his phone. And he said, this was from the greatest golfing day of my life. And I said, well, you know, I'm a teacher. You know, I'm on a very, very, you know, small salary. I love golf. I'm cadding at Chambers Bay during the summer when the kids are on vacation. And, you know, I have very small savings and my, you know, my one goal in life was to step foot on the property at Augusta National. I'm like, okay, he said, so every year my brother and I, we would enter the lottery for practice round tickets. And so they do this in this one particular year, I believe it's 2012, they get the tickets. And they have to basically spend all the money they have flying, you know, across the country, staying in a nasty hotel room, but ultimately going out

there, stepping on the property and seeing these people they love, you know, players. and a couple of caddies. And he would lean out over the ropes and take pictures of himself with these players that he loved. And he said, that was, without question, going to be the pinnacle,

the greatest thing that ever happened to me within the game of golf. And then three years to the week, he caddied for a guy that won that tournament. I mean, that story to me, it says so many cool things about cadding.

It says so many cool things about Michael Greller, and it just gives you hope. That's a cool story. He's one of my favorites. That's a cool story. All right, We can stay on the caddy in topic, because I don't know if you know Slee's actually dabbled in the caddy business a little bit.

I did. I saw it. I saw out his bones. He's a PGA tour events. He's got a 20th and a miscut. So he's about in 50%. Okay. Let's say we put Slees on the bag for Tiger in 2000. Okay.

Let's go over these nuts, these numbers. 20 events played, 20 made cuts, nine wins, 17 top 10. It's no big deal. What's that record looked like if Sleez is on the bag and not Steve Williams? I can tell you right now. Yeah, let's hear it. It's a minimum 15 wins. there might be five that we let slip through the cracks.

Probably a couple bad swings by him, but I'm not going to put that on my guy. But 11 of them things, easy grand salami, no question. We show up for big events. That's where I get my guys really ready. Right. You know, when the lights shine. Yeah, that's when we shine.

Yeah. How crazy is that, though? 20 events, 17 top. Reading that out loud is just stupid. It really does. It was amazing. And I remember, like, one year we got to San Diego, and he'd won like five or six tournaments in a row.

And he was, you know, he's trying to track down Byron Nelson's 11 or row at that point. And I just remember getting to the golf course and you're used to seeing, you know, TV trucks or, you know, the NBC trailers or what have you. But like, you know, good morning America. You know, you just stuff that you don't see at golf tournaments or people, you see. I remember looking into the crowd once, we were paired with him and seeing Aretha Franklin. And I'm thinking to myself, I get it, you know, you know, if I'm, I don't know, maybe Aretha Franklin's the biggest golf fan in the world at the time. But, you know, people wanted to see him. It was amazing.

And to be around about those team events where he would go to countries for the first time. And it was like the Beatles showing up. And I thought Tiger handled it like a champ. Let me read off the finish to his year here. Because his worst finish was tied for 23rd. That would never happen. His last eight events. First, first, first, third, second.

Tide for fifth, second first. Yeah. It's like, take just relax one week, bud. Maybe just slap it around a little bit. Yeah, no. I can clean that up quick. I think you got a caddy from 2000. I guarantee I could have got the kid in the winter circle.

They used to get off planes and people would like cry. That doesn't happen for golfers. You know, when they see them, they'd cry. Yeah. That doesn't happen for golfers. All right, let's stay on my cadding here for a minute because I'm trying to get better. We got one of the greats here. I need to know this answer.

Because I lost sleepover at Colonial this year. Okay, my guy, Wyndham was looking good. Well inside the cut line. Five holes to go. We finish up four over in the last five. Miss the cut by a shot. My fault or Windham's fault? What kind of shots are we see?

down the dress. Just dog shit. I couldn't get him to do anything. Missing fairways. I was doing everything I could, I thought to do. I'm normally a good little coach, little Rau-Raw guy. And I just couldn't stop it. I was like, what is?

I'm blowing it. Stop short side. Just one par. We're going to do it. Yeah. Golf will break your heart, won't it? I mean, it's that game. And, you know, whether it's in the caddy ranks, you know, or the player ranks,

I mean, golf can be cruel. And so. But it's pretty awesome, too. But it can be, it can. They can be pretty awesome too. All right. Last one, just because you mentioned. So that was a window answer, by the way. Obviously, I'm going to answer for Bones because he's too classy.

You mentioned Tiger getting off and seeing people cry and everything because they see him. Well, rumor has it. Some MLB managers have reached out to Bones and asked you not to come to any more baseball games because so many players get distracted when you're there and they want pitchers. No. Are you on that level, dude? Rob Manfred might be calling soon. You're not allowed in stadiums anymore. I will say that one of the more unusual things that I've had happened to be relative to being

a caddy is Joe Skobron, our dear friend, and I went to a D-Backs Colorado Rockies game several years ago. And because we knew one of the DeBacks players, Paulie Goldschmidt, we went down for batting practice. And so, you know, we were leaving. It was time for us to get out of there and maybe go grab a beer and sit wherever we're going to sit. And we're now leaving the stadium as the Rockies are taking infield practice and someone starts yelling at us. And so we're like, oh, oh, we're obviously in the wrong place.

And we turn around and it's one of the Rockies players. And the guy goes, you know, excuse me, and we turn around it and we walk towards him. And it's Nolan Arnado, this amazing future Hall of Fame, you know, now third baseman for the St. Louis Cardinals. He goes, you know, you caddy for Phil Mickelson and you caddy for Ricky Fowler. And we look at this guy and we're like, you watch way too much golf on television. But, you know, we were now meeting Nolan for the first time and Nolan loves golf. And it was the coolest thing because we all became friends.

I'm friends with Nolan to this day. He came to the U.S. Open. in Boston this summer and saw him there. But that to me, that's the thing about golf. Golf takes you places and everybody loves it, especially athletes and other sports as you guys both know. And you never know

who you're going to run into or how much they want to talk to you about what you do for a living and things like that. So yeah, that was a crazy day and probably the most unusual place I've ever been recognized. But love the fact I know Nolan now. That's awesome. What a game.

Bones, you're all class, dude. Thank you so much. I'm long overdue and that was a blast. Thanks, brother. Cool, thanks, sir. Appreciate it. All right, well, that was our man, Bones, joining us on golf subpart. Gosh, incredible storyteller. I mean, the things he has seen.

I mean, Phil Mickelson, one of the greatest ever played. Now Justin Thomas, Justin's sparking up this great friendship with Tiger Woods, getting to be around him so much. It's been a hell of a journey. This is the stories he could tell on podcast. You know what I mean? We're not even getting the closed book versions of all this stuff. I didn't even like, I kind of knew about the Bones nickname,

but I didn't really, I knew Freddie gave it to him, but I didn't really know how he was at the buffet, and he didn't know his name, just started hauling out a bunch of random shit at him. And then I love the story, the first whole cat in for JT where he hits it crooked. All right, move all the shit, you, gallery over there, you guys over here, we're going to need this angle clear. There's a little circle up there. There's a two feet by two feet window here. We're going right through there and JT. I thought I'm just going to punch out.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I forgot. You can do shit like that. Yeah. People actually do that. Don't you want to risk an eight to maybe make a four?

It's cool, man. I mean, obviously being best friends with Joe Lakov out there, his relationship with Michael Greller, Joe Skobran. I mean, they've got a hell of a setup out there. And I'm so happy for Bones being back on the bag with a great player. Like you said, he was born to Caddy. Yeah, dude. Like, he was awesome, awesome on television. He had a lot of insight with players and caddies that you probably know the average guy wouldn't know about.

But like, dude, catting is his DNA. Like that's where he belongs. He belongs out there with those guys. And as Faye would have it, one of the few bags I think that he would have left the broadcast before. No doubt. game available and shit it worked out and like that little dub they picked up at the PJ championship this this year I gotta think bones played role in that I mean it's just one of those calming effects um even guys that he's got you for on a one-off basis like man he's one of those

guys like yo he's on the back like players actually want to kind of show off we got to get him back for episode too because there's a lot more stories to get to with good thing you didn't take that banking gig it could have been you know depositing checks and handling overdrafts and cool shit like that big miss all right time well let's get to some gambling. Yeah. You aren't a heater with the football. I'm doing all right.

But let's start with a little football. Okay. A lot of big games, obviously game day. The frogs are involved. Go frogs. Got the Red River rivalry this week. Texas. A little bit of a down.

Which isn't going to be near as exciting as we thought it might be going in. But I'm going to go with a game. I just love their coach so much. Mississippi State. Okay. There was one of two ways. I thought you were going there. I just love Mike Leach so much.

He's freaking hilarious. Great interviews. They're favorite by seven and a half. I like buying the half down to seven, just because that little hook number bothers me. But I'm going with the Mississippi State Bulldogs this week. Who they got? They're playing the Arkansas Razorbacks,

Pig Suey, who got beat up pretty good by the old Alabama. It happens when Bama comes to town. Yeah, I think that I'm coming off a tough game, an emotional game. I don't know if they're going to have it when they head down to play Mississippi State in Starkville. Hopefully just gets long interviews. Before and after game. He's a treasure. Put him and Holgerson together, form the world's greatest coaching staff.

Maybe Lane Kit, a little dabble of Lane Kiffin in there as well. All right, I'm going back to the well trying to keep, yeah, exactly. Going back to the well, trying to keep my perfect streak. Every week I pick a game. It wins. I bet it. It wins. And then I bet seven other games throughout the day.

I never win another one. And you go one and six every week. Cold, cold, but my picks on here have been hot. I'm going back to the well, dude, with my boys. The lights are on. Game Day in Lawrence. Oh, my. Giving up less than a tub, minus six and a half.

All right, we're coming off the boat racing of OU. Everyone saw that. Could have put a, could have put a 70 burger on them. We showed some class. That's the type of organization we are. Pull back the reins. We're going in there. KU off to an unbelievable start.

They got a program for the first time in history. It's the first time they've had the lights. They ain't used to win in games, much less being ranked and have a rock-chop. Marky games. I think it's going to be a little too bright for him. I think my boys come in and make a statement. Giving up less than a tub on that.

Got to hit TCU Hornfrogs at Lawrence game day. Stand up. Pat McAfee in the house. Pat McAfee is going to be having a time in Lawrence. Less than a tub. They're going to love it. They're going to show up down there too. First time game days there.

It's going to be nice. All right. Well, on the PJ tour, we got the Shriner's open out in Las Vegas. Really great event. Anytime you get to go to Vegas, it's fantastic. Decent field, Patrick Cantley,

Max Homa, Sung J.M., Tom Kim in the field this week. For my favorite, he's the third betting favorite. And the guy's on an absolute heater. He's undefeated this year. He wins Fortinette. He goes four and O with the President's Cup.

He beat me and Joe Griner. Shit. He's rolling. What more can you do? And he's going off at 14 to 1, which aren't, is it terrible odds for a guy that's playing as well as he is.

Max Homa, let's go, baby. I was actually surprised he was third betting favorite. I get Cantlay being one, but then over Sung Jay and a pretty decent gap in between the two. I thought Max would have been second. Hard to go against Max right now

the way he's swinging it and his confidence level. When in Vegas, you got to factor in external activities. I agree. He was there to show up. You know what's like up there. I got a guy. He just attended his first party ever.

Okay? And you know what he drank? Water. I was there. I was very upset. The kid is locked in on golf. He just had his coming out party, I would call it, at the President's Cup. Not the longest dude in the world.

One of the best players on the planet. I think he's all business all the time. Got Joey Scoburn out there for the first actual PJ tour event on the bag. I'm going Tom Kim, 30 to 1. I don't hate it. He could go low. You can go low. You can win golf tournaments with quads on the first hole.

Mm-hmm. All right. A little further down. the board. I got a guy at 40 to 1. You go back to the corn fair to her last year. In his last 10 starts, he has nine top tens. The only one he didn't, he missed the cut him, no big deal, don't really care. The guy is printing

money, started off the season, third place at Fortinette, tied for ninth last week at Sanderson Farm. This is a home game for him. He gets to sleep in his own. His parents' house. Yep. He does still live it all with his parents, which we like to give him a hard time about. Cinnamon Toast's crunch. As long as he doesn't put too much pressure on himself to perform at home, I like him a lot

this week to keep this thing rolling. Taylor Montgomery, 40 to 1. He's rolling, rolling right now. Look for him. If you can get some props out there, rookie of the year. That's a good bet for I think he's a guy that'll contend for East Lake. He is rolling right now. I'm going to go a little further down the board. One of our boys here does like to have a good time. So keep that in mind when you're betting him. He's going off at 50 to 1 talent wise. I think he's incredible. I think it's just getting everything to line up. We've seen it in glimpses. You made it all the way to the BMW last year at the FedEx Cup playoffs. He's a type of guy that has East Lake talent.

Just getting it all to match up. I'm going Keith Mitchell. Boogie Keith to one. Hit that driver, hit it hard, hit it straight. He can be flicking a lot of wedges around Las Vegas and just get that putter going a little bit. You can have to go low. So you either need to be a great putter to make a bunch of birdies or you need to hit bombs and have a bunch of short irons in there.

Keith is the latter. Tom is the former. All I know is if you're not playing well, we need some good Vegas stories from a miscut. That's the goal this week every year. Yeah, they need to write. There should be a book written about guys missing the cut in Vegas or making the cut. as we know some good ones john mcginnis came on and told a great one about setting the uh wake-up call for 615 like uh 630 that'd be a hell of the book i think i'd be in there a little bit i'm on the tea

yeah all right enjoy it well that's going to do it for us we'll talk to you on next week's golf subpar