Subpar - Live from the Truist Championship with special guest Gary Williams

Episode Date: May 7, 2026

On this week's episode of Subpar, Colt Knost and Drew Stoltz are live from the Truist Championship with Golf Channel's Gary Williams. The Host and Executive Producer of 5 Clubs talks how meaningful this week's event is to the Queen City, his Mount Rushmore of sports broadcasters and what the future holds for Bryson DeChambeau and the rest of LIV Golf. --Visit Truist.com today to see how having the tools you need and a great team by your side can help you take your game to the next level. Truist Bank, Member FDIC.--Trade real-world events on Kalshi — a federally regulated prediction market — and get $20 when you trade $20 at ⁠Kalshi.com--Thank you to our partners at Ship Sticks. Go to https://shipsticks.com and use the code SUBPAR20 to enjoy 20% off your first shipment.The new Callaway Quantum drivers combine ultra-thin titanium, PolyMesh, and carbon in the new Tri-Force face — built for serious speed and distance.  Experience the Quantum Leap at callawaygolf.com.

All right, everybody, welcome back to Subpar, Colt Nost and Drew Stolt. And it is a pleasure to be here at the Quail Hollow Club in Charlotte, North Carolina. Side of this week's Truist Championship. Huge thank you to Truis for having Slees and I out. Here, we're at the Queens Lounge, which is in the fan zone on the south end, over by the 13th hole here today and also tomorrow morning with our man, Johnson-Wagner. But huge thank you to them for having us out. And the walk-off home run, the buzzer beater, the photo finish,

that feeling when everything lines up. And you get what you need. just when you need it. It feels unbelievable in sports, but when it comes to your finances, it can make you feel unstoppable. Visit truist.com today to see how having the tools you need and a great team by your side can help you take your game to the next level. Trueus Bank, member FDIC. All right. So let's mention getting ready for the truest championship. It is underway right now as we speak. But last week, I want to give some love to Cam Young, who just put on an absolute clinic decimating the field around Trump National Drow the Blue Monster. He tamed it, 19 underpart.

No big deal. Didn't think 19 was going to be the number at the start of the week. And it damn near wasn't other than him. Only like 10 guys were double digits, but he was way out in front of him. Dude, I mean, we've been saying it for a while, but this is just starting to click right now. He's won now. Two of his three wins are absolute runaways. You see what happens when he plays good.

Obviously, wind him last year, not quite the same field as we had at Durow this past week. But this is almost all the best players in the world. A few of them took the week off, runs away from that one. And then you go back to the players. He closed that one out with like clutch play down the stretch. It's just starting to click, man. And he's going to be on the short list of every tournament going forward. And that golf course, too, is one, like, makes sense for Cam Young.

He bombs it off. He's a great driver of the golf ball, but he can go back to the players. Totally different golf course. Doesn't use it all that much, more of a strategic golf course. So he's not just winning and winning big, but he's doing on different types of golf courses, too, man. He's, it's, this may be the floodgates, as we like to say. Yeah, we don't like what I say floodgates, but he's coming. There's no doubt about it.

He's taking his game to a whole new level. He's going to be one of the favorites at every major championship going forward. And by the way, he did it playing alongside Scotty Sheffler three of the four days. So he's not scared of the big dogs. Yeah. Because he is a big dog. And when you got a lead like that, it's so easy to just like, don't mess up, don't mess up. You see it dwindle and get smaller and smaller.

He just kind of kept going. By the way, called himself penalty on himself early that nobody in the world would have seen. Stupid rule, in my opinion. But props to him called it out. I was like, yeah, I think it moved. Took a shot penalty. I ended up there and made the put. Karma is real.

Unbelievable. Yeah, dude. That was impressive. of showing. Yeah, as it was from Nellie Cordo, who's batting 500 this year. She's won three times and has three seconds and six starts. Ridiculous. As well as Stuart Sink picked up another major title.

Just want to give some love to them before we get to this week. But man, golf's going right now. Nellie? Stuart Sink, John Rom, we're going to battle to see who can finish outside the top five the least times this year. Yeah. Speaking of that, a lot of interesting things

going on. Piff announced they are pulling their funding of Liv at the end of the year. very excited to see which domino falls next and what's going to happen because things are changing over there and i'm very interested to see what happens i know we're going to get into it with our guest gary williams here in just a little bit yeah but what what do you think right now we get that Gary who's a very well-versed golf mine what do you think right now you heard this news from a not well-versed golf mine well we get his too not mutually exclusive but yeah different type of mind what's going to happen i think it's bad news for the live people i just don't see how anyone's going to be able to come in and want to pick this thing up. If they get somebody, I'd be shocked. It'll be at a much lesser scale. You know, I feel bad for all the people involved. I mean, it's not just the players. The players made so much money, but these are jobs potentially going to be lost from people behind the scenes. And that sucks. But listen, the product is not performing. Piff decided to pull,

pull out. And I'd be shocked if they got somebody else. I think now it's, what is the pathway back for these guys? That's a good question. I think it'll be different depending on who you are. I think John Ron Bryson, they're going to be a different opportunity than there are for a lot of the other guys. The big question is like the young talent, which they do have some, Pooge, Jose Le, Tom McKibbin, Elvis Smiley. Like, those guys have never been PJH who are members where they come back and go to Q school. Like that's a tough, that's a tough kick for them. But I don't know what else you really do with them. It's, I, if you're one of the guys that joined like this pat, like Ben-on or who about Thomas Ditri or something like that, like I just got here.

I just got here. And now this thing's folding up shop. a pretty good gig going over here. And now it's gone. I mean, that's the risk you take. We always talk about like, you know, these guys, the guarantee model is like, it's a huge risk going over there. This could have happened two years ago.

There was no guarantees on this. And now sounds like it's happening now and it's going to look a lot different. It'll be some serious juggling at the end of the year. I think Rahm and Bryson are going to play by different rules and everybody else. And then tough nuggets for a lot of them. I have to go back and figure it out. We shall see. Also, by the way, let's get to, we've, we've, we've,

did these earlier since this is now Thursday, term has already started, but we did give out some picks for this week's Truist Championship with our friends over at Kalshi. We went Akshay, top 20, Zander, top 10. And surprise, surprise, the man who dominates you out here,

Roy McElroy is your winner. First time back from the Masters, might as well make it five. And it's got a lot of rain today, long and soft, typically good conditions for Roy. All right, those are our three plays over on Kaushi, and this episode is sponsored by Kalshi, the largest prediction market in the United States.

And here's what makes Kalshi different. you are not playing against a house. Kalshi is peer-to-peer trading. You buy a yes or no contract on whether something will happen and you're trading directly against other users. Think of it like buying or selling stock. The line isn't set by some algorithm working against you. It moves based on where the money goes.

Public opinion sets the price. For example, right now, Scottie Shephler is trading at an 18% probability to win the PGA championship, meaning a $100 trade, pays out $525 with a correct prediction. And as that probability shifts, You can buy in or out of your position at any time to lock in a profit or cut a loss. Kalshi is CFTC approved, federally regulated, which is why it's available all across the country, including California and Texas.

Download the Kauci app and use code subpar to get $20 when you trade $20. KALSHA. Put your money where your prediction is. I love it. All right. So here's to Akshay, Zander, Rory, three big dogs at a big top tournament, the Truist Championship. Once again, can't thank them enough for having us out here in the Queens Lounge. Ladies getting a little massage chair over there, got some manicures going on.

It's a nice little setup for the environment in here. And it is now time to welcome in our very special guest. I would say he is the king of the Queen City. Our man Gary Williams joins us on subpar. We got one of the most well-respected members of Gulf Media here with us today. He's a host of Five Clubs on the Golf Channel. Got a show on Sirius MPJ Tour Radio. They always immaculately dressed.

Gary Williams, good to have you, brother. They're here at the truest queen lounge, at Quell Hollow. Purple Haze. By the way, I had this whole bit ready for you to talk about your outfit, and you come in here kind of casual. Well, I mean, it's inclement weather. It's a very challenging day for me, because I don't play in the rain.

Who would, unless you're making a living doing it? I have a lot of cold weather gear, rain gear, very light in that department. I threw my rain gear way. Peter Moore, we're going to change that. Peter Milor, we're going to change that. When I quit, I threw my rain gear. I was like, I will not plan the rain anymore. Like, I have zero desire.

All my buddies who asked me about various things about, buy this, go here. One of them asked me about a golf bag recently. And he goes, I said, yeah, I've got this bag. And he goes, that bag doesn't have enough room for my rain suit. I'm like, a rain suit. Yeah, no, we're good. Who buys a bag based on the space for a rain suit? No.

I don't even own any anymore. Yeah, let's talk a little bit about what was your bit though. What was your bit you're gonna do you want to do it anyway? I was gonna ask you know who wears more outer layers you or David Faradie I mean yeah you do do you do the hot day I don't know how you're not a vest guy though he goes with that button vest look always not not in my repertoire no vest don't you have that five clubs best oh I've got vest but not with buttons you always have the tie underneath the quarter zip too which is a class play I can do that I can do that I can layer with anybody I mean I'm too fat and I sweat too much like I'm Like it's, I just don't get how you wear so many layers. I'll turn on five clubs and I'm like, he's got a golf shirt, a quarter zip, something over the quarter zip, and then a sport coat on. I was like, he's got to be dying in that.

That's ridiculous. There's at least one more layer. Oh, sorry. Sorry, I was way off. A scarf. That's why it's why it's an ascot. That's why. See, I don't even know what that is.

Yeah, it's classy. Very European. Very European. How do you like doing five clubs though? I mean, you were morning drive, then you had a little gap. Now you're back doing five clubs. first of all, the fact that I've got any show, I'm seriously very grateful. I love it because, you know, not that I didn't respect producers, kind of.

We don't respect ours. Good. No, to feel like I've got control of the direction of the show every day is a ton of fun. And then, look, we lived in Charlotte before we left for 12 years, went to New York for two, then to Florida for 10, to come back here, to get my car to go. drive 10 minutes to a studio and to do a show. No, I love doing it. And it's, and it's kind of more of what I always thought morning drive, morning driving its inception was for it to be two guys talking about golf. And actually, originally it was going to be more than golf. We were talking,

they were like, talk about football a little bit. I'm like, yes, that's the word I just came from. And then immediately the research department is like, nobody cares what you think about basketball. talk about golf. And so Morning Drive was intended to be like a radio show on TV. Like it was a peek-a-boo, like robotic cameras and just get in there, flip the light on and talk. And then Morning Drive kind of morphed into, like a today show for golf, fitness and fashion and travel.

And I like that. But it was less of what I really wanted to do, which was have conversation, people who play the game, cover the game, build golf courses, write books. And that's now what I'm getting to do. So very lucky and very happy. Early on morning drive was way more my speed.

I'm with you on that. And you know what? Every guy who played for a living and you were playing for a living when the show started told me I like that show better. Yeah, 100%. And the truth is I had guys not like beating them off of the stick, but Ricky co-hosts of the show and Bubba co-hosts of the show and Poulter and Graham McDowell.

those guys were willing participants and it's not like they said no to what it became but it was like I come in there and it's just the two of us and we're going to talk I'm in yeah it's great yeah five clubs is fantastic I want to know maybe top two favorite guests you've had and maybe is there a wish list out there of guests you'd like to have on you know the guy that that you were able to reconnect me with who you're very good friends with Charles Barkley who was just on I love Charles for so many reasons. One, because when he was becoming a star in the NBA, you know, I was in college, I'm watching him. And he was such, he was such a force, but I also find him to be as his valuable an asset to broadcasting because he's the only one that I know of at that level

who can still tell the truth. And not only get away with it, but there's value to it. Barkley would be among them. Begrudgingly, I would say somebody who we consider, a contributor because he contributes very little when it comes to golf is Jay Billis. Jay is an asset for us to have him associating with us. And I'll be honest, anytime I get to have a conversation with Nicholas, it doesn't matter. He's 86. When that light goes on, the guy is righteous and is still capable of saying things in a way that you're like, okay, there are not many analysts that can deliver like perspective on things. So those would be those would be my three. And then look, we've been lucky. You guys get everybody on your show, not only your serious show,

but here as well. And I think the top of the food team, anytime Jordan's Beath, I can sit down with him and talk about whether it's the Dallas Cowboys or his kids, I'll value that time. All right, before we get back to Gary Williams, Sleys, you've seen it. The world's heard about it. I'm. absolutely smashing it off the tea with my new Callaway quantum driver. We're going to take down Johnson Wagner tomorrow by the way. But this thing is fantastic. The whole quantum family, you're going to love it. It's got the new TriForce face features, ultra thin, high strength titanium, reinforced with polymesh and carbon, making quantum our fastest, longest, and most exciting driver. You ready for

a quantum leap in distance? Go get yourself the new Callaway Quantum driver. Experience the all-new Calaway Quantum Driver with Triforce at Callaway Golf.com. Now back to Gary Williams. You mentioned Mr. Nicholas, and I was lucky enough this year, he was the lead analyst for two hours on Amazon on Thursday and Friday at the Masters. And I was on that broadcast. And like the leading into it, the 15 minutes before, he was just chopping it up with us. It was unbelievable. He's amazing.

When I was in high school and college, he was still, look, I was in college when he won in 86. I was a freshman at Vandy in the TV room that smelled like an old 12-pack of now. daddy light and some vomit. And I watched every moment. And in the next major or two majors later, you know, he's doing an hour on ABC because he was contracted with them to come in when his rounds were over. And it was the best hour of television. And so he is still amazing at what he does. And when I was growing up, when he went in the ABC Tower, I'm like, and I'm a nerd about golf, but I was also a nerd about TV. And I'm like, he's the best player. or among still the best players, and he's the best analyst.

It's incredible. You were at Vanderbilt, like you were talking about, you're a golf nerd, you love TV, but you had a weird route kind of to get to, I don't want to say weird, but a different route. Like you got out of college, you were a club pro for a while at some great places. Walk us through kind of like your trajectory, your path to where you are now, like golf media guys.

It was a lot of good fortune. And we all need people to step into our life to like change the trajectory of it. And I had that happen for me. Like you said, I was a polysci major, and I thought I really wanted to go into the political arena, not as an elected official or as a candidate. I wanted to be a chief of staff. I was into it. And then I was a Senate intern for a summer, and I'm like, I'm not into it anymore. I found it to be a meat grinder.

And that was back when people, like, found agreements with things, which is hard to do now. So I'm like, I'm not doing that. I was thinking about going to law school. And I decided I'll get a job working, you know, as a cart boy somewhere until I figure it out. And that's what I did. I was at the governor's club in Chapel Hill, right when it opened a Nicholas golf course. And then I went over to Greensburg Country Club. And all of a sudden, I'm like, maybe I could do this.

And then I got the job at Seminole. And I'm like, I will find out whether I want to do this. If I like it there, then maybe I want to do it. And I found out that the guy was hiring the new head professional at Somerset Hills, which is a very, very stealthy under the radar, Tillingas golf course in North Jersey, where I grew up. And I'm like, oh, my God. But it wasn't like, oh, my God, I want this.

It was, oh, my God, I don't think I want to do this. And if I take this job, I might be stuck. That's when I'm like, I'm out of here. And then I'm like, I don't know what I'm going to do. My dad was in the paper industry his whole career. I took a job in a management training program with a big, fully integrated paper company. I'm like, after six months of that, I'm like, I do not want to do this, move to Charlotte. And the guy that was running a cluster of CBS-owned radio stations, I met him arbitrarily.

I had done radio and done some writing in college. And he's like, we want to start a golf show on the weekend. We can't pay anything. I don't care. I can talk golf on the radio for an hour. and a year later, after doing this while working for MCI WorldCom, which was, you know, a telecommunications company, I was selling long distance.

And the guy was like, we want you to host our morning show. I'll give you a three-year contract. We'll give you time to make it work. And 18 months later, I'm doing play-by-play for ESPN regional, doing college basketball and college football. And that's when I knew that, I was lucky and I had my path. You should go back to the paper business.

You talk about a meat grinder selling cardboard boxes. Oh, no thank you. In politics. I like what you're doing. Let's stay on the broadcasting topic here. I'm curious, Mount Rushmore of broadcast. We're going to do it by sports. You get to name one from golf, football, baseball, basketball, hockey.

Okay. Are we doing the play-by-play guy? Are we doing the analyst? Or I can take, I can mix and math. You can mix the match, whatever you want. Okay. I'll start with golf, and I was, and it's back to like the ABC broadcast team when I was growing up was murderers road.

Jim McKay was hosting the coverage. And then you had the likes of, you know, obviously Jack was in there. Ed Sneed was part of the team. Jack Whitaker was writing essays and voicing them on the air. I love Dave Marr, who won the PGA. But Nancy is that Nancy is the voice of my life. in the sport, not to mention other sports as well. So gym for golf.

For basketball, I would make it Marv Albert. Marv was, I grew up a North Carolina fan. And so Michael, when Michael became Michael, NBC had the NBA package. So he won all of his championships on NBC. Marv was the guy. So Marv would be the guy in basketball for football. I think Joe Buck is as good a broadcaster as anybody. I would kind of, I would split that if I could, but I won't.

I'll keep it with that for baseball, even though he doesn't do it anymore because he deserves to get one of the sports because he can do them all. Sean McDonough is his good a play-by-play guy as there is. And then Mike Emrick for hockey. Yeah. Doc Emrick would be the hockey guy. Those guys, they are the soundtrack of my life. By the way, Nance said, if you didn't pick him, you're dead damn.

That was actually just to say it. We really didn't even care. He's really not going to say Nance. You back toward your way into it. I was like, this is good. Sean is sneaky like the most versatile guy out there. He's unbelievable. You just slide him into hockey, which is probably the hardest thing you could possibly do with the names, the shifts and all the stuff.

You slide him into golf. He's perfect. Football. He's great. He's unbelievable. And here's the unfortunate thing. He knows it. So when you're with him, he's insufferable.

No, he is. That's so good. I have done some very regrettable golf trips with him back when I was drinking. And there are few people when I was really sick who could hang with me, and Sean was one of them. Sean is college basketball, college football, obviously did the NFL for years. He did golf. I mean, he was part of CBS's master's coverage for some years. I know he is, now that he's got hockey, he's not doing.

he did the PGA a couple of years. My first time ever being an on-course guy was for ESPN at the PGA out at Harding Park, and he was in the booth. He can, he can, and he's got, he's got pipes that you're so envious of, but he also can punctuate calls in a way that I was at a six overtime game in the garden for the Big East tournament that him and Jay Billis and Bill Raftery called, that I went back and watched the broadcast. I would argue it may be the best broadcast of hilarity,

technical broadcasting, and the punctuating of calls in the history of my life watching and viewing sports. It was Billis, Raftery, and McDonough. You got a dry sense of humor on the broad. In real life, though, you get him like off mic. He's just flat out, like, but he's funny. Like, he's got so many stories and all this stuff.

But on air, it's like these little dry things here. I think he does a great job. Him and Billis, if they are in an after, dinner environment or like a like a fireside chat they eviscerate each other almost as much as they kill everybody in the audience there are no two people more well equipped to take billionaires down to the studs than those two guys that's good i like that by the way you mentioned bill raftery never met the guy i've got to meet him after you two in raftery he needs to be on this show the stories all I've heard.

I'm just like, to a man, everyone's like, that's the guy, that's the guy, that's the guy. He's the guy. You've got, I mean, Billis can get your raftery. I think I can get your raftery. He needs to be. I heard we would get along very well. Very well. A little in person, you know, enjoy ourselves.

Yeah, and Billis does a perfect raftery impersonation. I'm not going to even try. Jay is, those three together and into, to, whether it's going to a game or watching to a game, They did a handful of games here in Charlotte, and then the show after the show, because every restaurant in any town will keep the lights on for those three, those three together and watching them close a place down. And Jay, there's a great story about them going to a restaurant in Milwaukee, and they got there, Jay got there early, and he told the Mater D because they're all of them, Sean not so much is generous. Billis and Raftery, very generous. And they always fight each other about the bill. And Jay made a point of getting there early.

And he told the guy, here's my card, I got this. So it winds up being instead of like six people, 16 people. And the first bottle Jay ordered was a bottle of Silver Oak. 24 bottles of Silver Oak later. Raftery told the Mater D, if you do not take my card over Jay's, we will never come back here. Raftery got, he got the bill, and I don't know what the line is, but it's one of the greatest lines ever of Raftery saying something about not silver oak next time. What is the cheapest bottle of red wine you can buy? Like in a convenience store, you're not a red one.

Oh, that red tail or yellow tail, that little kangaroo, it's like, it's like snake guts too next year. Yellow tail, yeah. It's like three bucks. Yes. Snake blood. That's beautiful. I think Bill has told us the one one time, similar type of deal. Like they always arguing who can take the check. And he got to a restaurant, like a nice joint there. And he's like, I'll get his wine for the table. I'll do that. But he didn't have his readers. And he was looking out of the menu. So he couldn't really like make out what he's like, right here, you know, points to one or whatever. And they're like, oh, okay, good choice, sir. And like, we'll have another. We'll have another. Next thing I know he's like, I get done, dude. And I order like the most expensive bottle on the,

on the whole menu. And we had six of them. NCAA tournament this year when Yukon hit the buzzer beater against Duke, which is wild. They had the camera on raft. And the reaction, which was truly like a fan watching, but then Billis froze it and put the face raft makes when they say last call. That's like, that's good. That's good. How old is he now? He's 801 or 2. He's 82. He wants to keep going for a while. He's so good. I mean, he calls this shot. He's timeless and he was never somebody who insisted on dominating a broadcast, which is why Jay and Sean and he worked so expertly together.

And, like, he's always been the guy who picks his spots, punctuates calls. So it's not like you're going, he's lost his fastball. No, he's still got the same stuff he had 30 years ago. I think he's 82. And he's a ball to straw guy. Like, he is a golf guy. Love that. Yeah, we got to get him out.

I heard he, like, takes crazy notes. And then he gets on, when it's time to go on air, it's just basically just shoves him to the side. I believe that. Yeah. Just watches the game and lets it go. Yep. And he's just a hallmark. Like, you hear his voice, like, you know, like, he's,

You know, the same way you said, Nance was the, you know, like the soundtrack. The voice that I remember, yeah, soundtrack from my youth. Like, that's how he is. He'd call his own shot. So when I was a kid growing up in Jersey, he was the head coach at Seton Hall. And they played in Walsh Gymnasium,

which literally had a stage at one end of the floor. It was a basketball court. And they also had, like, like, plays. And it was, and he dressed, he wore these plaid suits, the big neck tie knot. And he was a lot like Vital. Like he was not the most successful coach, but he is, to me, the most successful broadcaster when it comes to that sport.

I love it. We're going to hold you to that, by the best stories. We will get raft in this tour. All right, before we get back to Gary Williams, a quick note from Shipsticks. B.G, we're down here in the Queen City, Charlotte. Just a few days ago, I was back home. Scott Stel practicing, got the four ball coming up. But we're going to play golf here tomorrow in Charlotte.

So back home. Didn't want to lug them down to the airport. Go through all that mess. Took them straight to the shop, printed out a label. Boom. They're going to be here in Charlotte tomorrow. They're already here, actually. They're waiting for me.

Right now, when we finish tomorrow, I got a little tight squeeze on my flight going home. Don't want to lug them. Ship them straight back home, print out a label. I'll never touch them this entire trip. Come down here in and out, the easiest thing in the world. If you're traveling and you don't want to lug your clubs,

you want to make this thing the easiest as possible. You've got to use Shipsticks. And right now, Shipsticks is offering our listeners 20% off your first shipment. when you go to shipsticks.com and use the code subpar 20. Go to shipsticks.com, use the code subpar 20 to get 20% off your first shipment and save yourself the hassle this golf season. That's S-H-I-P-S-T-I-C-S dot com.

Make sure you use the code subpar 20 so they know we sent you. Now, back to Gary Williams. Let's talk a little golf here. Obviously, we got Truist Championship this week. Quail Hollow Club, I mean, historic golf course right here. One of the best. I mean, it's basically a mini-A-Gustin National. It's so cool.

walking around here. But how much does this tournament mean to the city of Charlotte? A ton. You know, I was, I was doing local radio here when the tour came back here. The Kemper Open was here for 10 years, 69 to 79, went away. They had a senior event, the Payne Weber over at TPC Piper Glen, which was nice and did well. And Arnold was still, you know, at an age where he was, he was, it was always going to be a draw. Trevino turned 50. You had Gary Player, Jack, neighbor, came here. But when it came back here, I started doing local radio in 1999. The Panthers went one in 15 in 2001. It was dreadful. The Hornets left for New Orleans. It was a wasteland. And so when the PGA tour made the choice to come here, the Harris family, I don't know why.

They said, yeah, Gary, we'll let you do your show from the lawn. So I did my four-hour local radio show from here year one and actually was bootlegging. I was calling it off the CBS network television broadcasts. A little monitor I was doing the weekends as well from from four to seven. So I was literally calling like with like a three second delay the third round, the final round of David Thompson's win. This event, this town shows up for big events. This town likes to show off and this town likes to dress up. This event was big. built to be at Quill Hollow and to be in this city. It's awesome.

And they get great champions here. I mean, Rory, a bunch of times. Scotty's one here, Tiger won here, Ricky back in the, like, they've had great. What is it about Quill Hall you think that like, I know it's a signature event now. It's only marquee names more or less, but even when it wasn't, it seemed like the cream always rises to the top here. You know, Drew, I think, first of all, Tiger was a huge reason because he didn't come in year one, but Marco Mirra and John Cook, who were still playing on a pretty regular basis then,

told him after they played no three, hey man, you got to add this to your schedule. This place was built for you. It also was at that time, you had the players that was still in March. So it was the perfect cadence for him to be his re-entry after the Masters. So when he showed up in 2004. I'll never forget. He stayed at the Ballantyne Resort, and this was back when he was still running a lot. And somebody got a photograph of him running down Ballantyne Commons Parkway. That was on the front page of the Charlotte Observer, like, oh, my God. Like, we saw Bigfoot. Like, it was him just running. That was huge.

That validated this event in a huge way as far as a national audience going, okay that's now on the tiger schedule um and then the fact that it got the winners that it got tiger won here in 2007 phil came here every year phil used to have a a big like private party at del friscoes and there was usually a huge fight card that first saturday in may and he would have players he'd have some media members you know i was lucky enough to be invited to that but phil Phil could have or should have won here at least three times. If he could have gone from 16 green to 18T, he probably would have won here at least twice.

He butchered the 17th hole. Phil and Tiger made it a part of their schedule. Easy hole. Easy hole. Yes. Click it up there. Let it release. Those two guys were central to it validating itself as a premier event.

You know, you start looking around the schedule. Phoenix has got its own vibe. Memorial is to me the quintessential kind of signature event and then this is right there and the other thing they did from year one which was a game changer Wednesday proams were the player

and two amateurs and players are like what? I don't have to slub it around here with four hacks that that was also and also Mercedes courtesy cars and a couple guys got my box and it was like okay this is different Yeah, I mean, my rookie year playing here, that's when it was going.

I mean, it was, yeah, S550 courtesy cars. I mean, the parties, there was no turn. The player's party, which doesn't exist anymore. It doesn't exist anymore. But, I mean, this was like, as a 22-year-old kid, you're like, that's the mecca right there. I mean, it's, shout out to the Harris family. I mean, they're unbelievable. Yeah.

The players party at Bell Acres, which is a private club itself, over on South Boulevard, with everybody who's anybody in this town as a member, but nobody knows that. I'm telling you, you walked in that room, and I remember looking at players and they're going, where are we? This is like a combination of Dallas and Phoenix. Can we have this every week, please? Yeah, we sat him in Phoenix no longer have them. Yeah.

None of those who exists anymore. I forgot about that Phil Renton-Alde Frisco's and, like, throwing it for the media. It was always during, like, Cinco de Maile, like the big fights, like all those fights. It was Bones' birthday. It was Bones' birthday. Yeah, there you go. That's a cool thing you did, like, that, you know, kind of gets forgotten nowadays. Totally.

I always, there was a level of generosity that he had. And I don't, you know, people say to me periodically like, well, he had this notion or the reason he signed all these autographs or for this reason. First of all, 10-year-old kids don't care what his motives were. And locker room attendants don't care what his motives are. That the word gets around that he greased somebody 400 at the end of the week. The generosity is the generosity. And, you know, I had just started a Golf Channel.

He didn't know me. And I got invited to this thing the first year when I was there in 2011 and then 2012, 2013. And I'm like, okay, this is a private party for like 40 people, closed circuit TV, you know, bone in, you know, rib eyes flying left and right, good wines. And I'm going, this has got to be $25, $30,000. And he was. Yeah. Yeah. Nobody paid a thing.

He was very generous. He was always so great to me. And we would later on after, I think that party kind of slowed down a little bit, he would invite a few of us to dinner. And him and Padrick always had a bet every year. And I don't know what the bet was, but loser obviously paid for dinner. So there was like six or eight of us there. And Phil pulls out his wallet one time.

And it made Costanza's wallet look like tiny. Like this thing is, he's got 9,000 business cards. I'm like, what are you? What is this? Like, how do you even put it in your pocket? Sit on it? So Padrick, being a little jokester, he is, went and got a purse and put and Phil's locker.

It just left it. And we're all playing like early on Sunday. Sitting in the locker room having breakfast and Phil just walks in with his purse on his shoulders like, hey guys, that's going. Act like nothing even happened. I don't think people realized how close Phil and Padraig were. Maybe they still are. I don't know.

But they like to mess with each other a little bit. Do you get that Kistanza reference? Oh, yeah. Oh, okay. Younger, you guys are, you know, you guys are younger than me. And I wonder sometimes because I, I mean, the catalog, I could go through a wall. So when I looked at you, I'm going, please tell me, Drew got that reference. Oh, yeah.

I watch a lot of sign thought. Okay. I'm more curb. Curb I like better than science. Well, there. Yeah, me too. Speaking of getting old and references, we had Blades Brown on the show last year. Oh, shit.

And Blades is from Nashville. And I talked about this place. We just joined that's getting built called Bounty Club. Oh, yeah. Which is going to be incredible. And Kid Rock's house overlooks it. And he's like, where is it? I was like, oh, like, South Nashville.

I was like, you know where Kid Rock's house is? And he's like, no. I was like, oh, it's the one that looks like the White House. but it overlooks it. I was like, you don't know where that is? He's like, no. I was like, do you know who kid Rock is? And he goes, no.

And I was like, damn it. Was he like Elvis? I've heard of the name. Kidding me. Yeah, that does sting. That way and Blades was for a Vandy guy, we all, because his mom was a great athlete at Vandy, we're hoping. And I will say this about that kid.

The first time I saw him, I went, okay, I don't care that he's not six to. His lower body. Yeah. Like, he's sturdy. Quads, I mean, he's going to be just fine. Yes. I was a little critical first of him turning pro so early. I was like, I don't think it's the right time.

Like you're young, it's not going anywhere. Like at least go be on your own for a year or two and see how you mature and everything. But man, he is going right now. He's going to be on tour. He may win Myrtle right now. No question. That's, you know, the one thing about being in the space that we're all in now. And look, you know, you guys played the highest level, all the stuff you've

accomplished. The one thing I struggle with, and sometimes I don't get this much, but it's like, you're not, you're not that critical of players. No, I'm not, because I don't know what it's like to be inside those ropes. And the other thing I don't know is decision making. I have enough trouble making good decisions for myself. The last thing I'm going to do is be really pointedly critical of somebody else about making choices about their own life. It's their own journey. One thing I do think, when you look, though, at golf, particularly, including Tiger, the greatest of all time didn't skip steps. They really didn't.

And I'm not going back to when Hogan didn't have really colleges a choice. Jack, Tiger, Phil, most of them. And the reason why they didn't, they learned how to win at every level and learn how to dominate that level. And then it was time to start the meter at the next level. Totally agree with you. One, obviously, the best in the world right now, Scott. Sheffler. I want to talk about him, but you mentioned like people saying you don't criticize

players. I remember last year, CJ Cup Byron Nelson. Scottie shot, I think, 31 under par or something. He won by like eight or nine. And I got a tweet from a guy saying, all you do is kiss Scottie Shephler's ass. I'm like, what bad? He shot 31 under. How am I supposed to say anything dude? Like, oh yeah, darn, he only made Bertie there on his own study eagle. Like, just got 35, bum. I was like, what are you supposed to say about these people? Like, I'm not scared to criticize by any means. I mean, I think that's part of my job, but you got to praise them as well when they do things so well. Yeah. The thing about constructive analysis and it's really not criticism. And look, you're in a spur of the moment job. I'm not. I have the luxury of time to watch

golf, whether it be in person or on television, and then the next morning get up. And I can hopefully get context, whether it's reaching out to somebody close to that player when it comes to decision making, whether it be an instructor or caddy. And you don't. And I can be constructive with my analysis. The one thing I'm reluctant to do is I want some context. Like I don't want to say, well, why did he choose to do that? Why did he go for an in two? Why did he hit seven when he should have hit eight? Stuff like that. It's not that I'm reluctant. It said, I'd like to have a well-rounded opinion as opposed to just going off gun-shy without any context to go on. That's fair.

And I think it's the way you do it, too. Like the words you use, you can be critical without being like, you know, insulting to the, you know, like wrong clubs or decisions or things like that. I think there's guys that have a down pat and certain guys that come off a little more abrasive than the other ones. And that's where, like, I do miss Johnny Miller. And the thing that people misunderstood about Johnny and a lot of people were like, well, you forgot how hard it was. No, he didn't.

that's the last thing he forgot because he always matched his criticism generally by pointing to how many times he failed himself and you know him saying what he said which could be harsh

at times and biting his hell is he never forgot how damn hard it was and he would always remind people like yeah I did that a lot so anyway I have a lead analyst over there now that's not scared to criticize

he just criticizes networks instead of players Oh, here we go. Oh, mercy. You might as well just get that out there. I mean, kids, I saw that and I went, okay, I wonder how many he'd had. Three in, three styrofoam cups, maybe five. I don't know.

And here's the thing about the job that he has and the job that you have is the one thing that people who do it at the network level understand is one, how damn hard it is. And two, with that many balls in the earth, there's no way on God's green earth that every shot can ever be live. It's impossible. It's an impossible exercise. And that's one thing when people ask me about, well, you know, these guys are quite as good as Tiger was. I'm like, hold on a second. You're seeing more live shots now than you've ever seen before with PGA Tour Live, with featured groups, with all this stuff. I'm not saying that Tiger didn't make more than anybody because he did, and he was also showing more live than anybody else.

When you saw everybody else's shot, those shots were plausibly live. They don't show the misses. Yeah. They didn't show the misses. You see more misses now because there's more live coverage than there used to be. But Kiz, I knew that that mulligan was going to be taken very quickly. Yeah. I don't really address that at all.

I just wanted to throw that. out there a little bit. I'll go. Enjoy that a little bit. Hiro. I have. The toughest thing to do on the planet

until you get in there and actually look at how many moving parts are you have no idea but it's remarkable. It's remarkable. It's remarkable. It's remarkable.

Sellers shy, Tommy Roy, you name them. Brent Packer used to do it a lot. You know, Mark Loomis, my boy, my bandy boy, who still does some. Jeff Newbart, these guys who do this stuff,

a live production truck of a golf tournament is insanity. It truly is. I mean, it's a production studio. If you walk in there and there's four or five rows of people, and people walk in there going, how is it possible that what's coming out through there is originating in here? Because this is like controlled chaos. The conveyor belt of how sellers does what he does, Tommy has done what he does. It's remarkable. They have rookie orientation on the PGA tour. And players have over the last several years,

I say have been a little more outspoken about criticizing the broadcast. Along with rookie orientation, I think every player should have to go to the TV compound and spend an hour. It's a great point. And just see and be like, oh, my, it takes. Like we posted the picture of Ian Baker Finch on his last tournament, Windham. And it was an awesome picture from up on top of the stairs looking down.

And the whole crew was behind him. And the amount of people that messaged me were like, that many people work for CBS. I was like, yeah, that's how much it takes to put on an actual show. Like, go in the con, like, Slaz just went to the compound. And like the amount of people, the amount of trucks, everything. And it's week after week.

Week after week. It's amazing. Look, you know, I did at a modest level, did some play-by-play for college football and college basketball. Did the Panthers play-by-play for three seasons, the pre-season TV with Steve Burline, who was my analyst. And those, you look, you look from the camera. all the way through it.

It is an army of people that makes something that people watch that is a seamless, you know, enjoyable exercise of watching something on a picture tube. It's hundreds of people that make that thing come back that you're viewing look like it is the most polished thing because it is because of all those people. Yeah, it's a monster. I don't care what sport,

but golf especially, there's just so much going on. Transition for a minute. Let's get to like the hot topic in golf right now. Yeah. Live, Piff's funding done after this year. There's a lot of rumors. It seems like every week there's something new coming out.

What's going to happen? How does this shake out? I think what's going to happen is whether it's a slow drip or whether, you know, live with them hiring a couple different firms that they're in the business of finding funding for companies in all industries. The problem that Liv has is. the premise it was built on, which is the reason it got the players it got, which was this windfall. And if suddenly, you know, players who've got contracts that are ironclad, they're going to have to get paid.

But there's going to be a slow drip of players that are going to migrate back to the PGA tour. What's going to be most interesting to us, you guys have in your daily show, I've got mine, is what are the pathways? What are these different arteries based on profile level of accomplishment that whether it's Ram and Bryson in this silo, Tyrell Hatton and Cam Smith in the next silo? You know what I'm talking about. Down to guys who never were even tour members, these young guys like a Caleb Surratt, or someone like Tom McKibben, who got his tour card and made the choice to go. Or someone like, oh, God, I mean, I could go through the list.

of every category. Harold Varner. What is Harold Varner? And how motivated is Harold going to be to? Harold loves playing golf. So I wouldn't be surprised if he went to Q school. That is going to be the way for some of them. I'm most interested in the guys that really are needle movers

and how much acrimony is there, whether it be the player advisory council, the membership of the PGA tour. Look, Kepka did it one way, as did Patrick Gros. as did Patrick Greed. They still had a choice. There's less choice now. And that to me has merit with whether it's guys on the pack or members of the PGA tour.

They got out a year early where it's like, I made the choice to come back here, pay these penalties, and do my penance where these other guys are kind of coming back. Maybe the house isn't totally on fire, but guess what? They're smoke and people want to leave. Yeah. And with Brooks leaving, like, it's. gave Bryson to Shambo so much leverage. Like, I mean, his contracts up at the end of this year. It's, okay, he did that.

He went to the PGA tour. This was before Piff pulled their funding, but he's like, I've got all the leverage. Like, I'm the guy. I want $500 million to keep playing. Well, now that Piff pulls that, I have a feeling that number is going away. So he's, like, threatening to possibly just walk away, do YouTube and play the major championships. Do you see any way he actually does that? Or do you think he's just trying to kind of put some.

He's being him. He's being him. I like that. Which is, you know, he's also the guy who when he was ascending got maniacal about long drive and participating in long drive contest, which people are going, that is going to be debilitating to you actually putting scores in a box because it's not about one number that you can cycle to over the course of hitting a dozen golf balls on an airstrip in Mesquite, Nevada. No, he will not do that.

It's funny that he's suggesting that. If he does do that, it's disappointing in this respect, because I have immense credit, give him immense credit for this. He has figured out Augustine National to a degree where he had no semblance of an idea of how to solve that Rubik's Cube. He contends in almost every major. He found a way, and even though the wind laid down the last three rounds at the Open last year.

He contended legitimately there, kind of, for the first time. He is always going to be a factor at U.S. Open. He's likely always going to be a factor at a PGA. He is as much of a sure thing to be on the first couple pages

of every leaderboard of the major championships. I give him credit for that, but he's not going to do that. And if he does do that, he won't continue to contend to major championships. And that'll be too bad because major championship, prime windows are not as long as people think they are. You know, someone like Rory extended his by 11 years by winning last year. Tiger extended his by 11 years by winning in 2019. His was

9708 and then it dried up for 11 years. You look at Hogan, you look at Palmer, you look at most of these guys. It's five to seven years, which is why Scotty's such an interesting study because he has this ability to focus and is not distracted by shiny toys, social media, all the other stuff. But Bryson, to me, look, I think a lot of guys would swallow hard knowing how valuable he is,

but what's happened to him, my analogy in terms of what he thought he had to play with, was the Yankees and the Dodgers both bidding for him, and guess what? The Dodgers are no longer interested. And that's essentially the Public Investment Fund of Saudi Arabia. So the Yankees going to bid against themselves, the PGA Tour?

No, they're not. That's the deal when he, like his comments recently where he said he's, he doesn't like what the PJs tour is doing because of what he can do for them. I'm like, first off, you're not bigger than the game. Like, nobody is. You're not Tiger Woods. I'm sorry. I mean, you're, you're fascinating to watch.

You are must see TV. I would say like when he's in contention or even when he's playing, if he's in 50th place, like you're going to go out there and watch Bryce and play because it is a show. But don't ever say what you. can do for them. Like the PGA tour is the platform and it has been a very successful platform for a very long time. Absolutely. It's always it's always about the platform and as much as, you know, we may, you know, when we hear that, when you're up for a contract, whether it be for this outlet or that outlet and whether it's a network or a radio network or whatever, the platform,

if that platform is good, that is as much of your value as you're a network. As you're a network, ability to be a dynamic performer, which he is undeniably one of the most interesting people in golf, including some of the things that he says, which a lot of the things that he says I don't agree with, including, you know, him talking about the PGA Tour not being in great shape. First of all, the PGA Tour hadn't spent a cent of the investment from this, from the strategic sports group. They are, they have burned some of their reserves. There's no doubt. They're subsidizing some signature series events. They are strained. but they're not struggling.

There's a huge difference. All right, so let's just assume, Bryson, ain't going to shut it down and play the red T's on YouTube and then pop in and play major championships. I think that's a fair assumption. You're CEO of the PGA Tour. You're Brian roll up right now. Liv continues on, but not in the same form that it is right now,

and the guys want back, Bryce and ROM, but all those different arteries that you discussed. You're in charge. What's the route back for these guys? Is it different for everyone? It cannot be, the players, I think, first of all, that the players want to see

live debilitated some more than others, but in terms of Brooks, I think people had, the players have an affinity for him, and they also appreciated the fact that he was coming back before the house was on fire, and nobody knew it was going to be, and also that the penance he was going to serve,

it's real. It can't be any less punitive for those guys than it was for him, Kenneth? You wouldn't think so. I mean, obviously he got to come back very quickly. I just don't see a world where a David Pooge or Caleb Surat is going to be able to do that. Not those guys. I'm talking about two. Okay. Ram and Rice-Boh. 100%. Those two guys, to me, it's the, it is the same model that they were presented with anyway. They were given that model for the member return program to begin with. And the window closed, they didn't take advantage of it. Brooks was the only one. Cam Smith had it as well. So I think that window opens again,

and I expect it to look, and I would have it look exactly the same. I also think it's important because this is what they did with Brooks and why it was okay, why players were okay. A, he didn't take shots on the PJ Troor on the way out. So he's still like, you know, in good standing, more or less, but also it didn't kick someone out.

Like, we're like 100 full exempt cards now. You start being like, all right, Ron, you're back. You know, Bryson, you're back. Oh, Cam Smith, you went back. Let's put you in. You won a major championship. Joaquin Neiman, you're a great player. We'll put you like, you can't kick guys out that there's not enough space.

So they got to find a way to make it so that nobody loses their job. And theoretically, and it's already been proven this year, his presence actually created a couple opportunities because they had to get to a right number. So there were guys who were not going to be in the field. If he wasn't present, that wound up getting in the field, you're right. That part of it. And first of all, that's a very good piece of advice. I had this conversation with Lucas Glover, who's such an interesting voice because he runs a little bit

against the current of a lot of the top players. And he is going to be, he's, he's the chair of the player advisory council this year. He'll be on the board starting next year for four years. And I asked him, I said, are you influenced by guys who, somebody told me this about leaving a job years ago? He said, if you leave, first of all, don't forget how your fortune has been improved by being there. And for that reason, don't throw toys on the way out.

Don't say disparaging things. Just say thank you and move on. And I asked Lucas about that. I said, are you influenced by guys who were either part of litigation, part of lawsuits, or said disparaging things on the way out the door? And he goes, no, not really, because everybody makes your own decisions. But not everybody thinks that way. So those two guys and then everybody else, that to me is where it gets really interesting.

Because the Tom McKibbins and the other guys, and again, the next level, whether it's the Joaquin Neiman, who's not as accomplished, it is as Tyrell Hatton. And Tyrell Hatton's a commodity. No, he's not top of the marquee, but when you start looking at field strength, those guys have value. So I want to see,

are there four pathways? And what are they? And what's the criteria and who's eligible? Yeah, it's going to be fascinating to see what happens. I'm very interested to see what comes of this at the end of the year with Piff pulling. Do they find somebody else?

Who knows? I don't think so. But we're just going to have to sit back. Not even remotely. First of all, it was always going to butt up against some market principle that it never had to apply before. And Saudi Arabia, in terms of all these other projects that have it going on, they're not just tightening the belt on golf. They're tightening the belt all over the place and their sports properties that they have all over the world. They're not going to get funding remotely.

No. And I'm not, I'm not, you know, professing to be a financial expert, but I know enough about what's out there in the marketplace when it comes to golf. And there ain't that much. You're 100% right. But that's where it gets interesting, doesn't it? Like, take Rom, for instance, who just came out and said, like, you know, I don't see many ways out was the quote, you know, but I mean, like, I'm sure they made this contract pretty tight. But he's signed up for live in its current form. So now PIF goes away and they're like, hey, we're playing, live continues, but we're playing for $7 million next year. And this changes and this changes. It's like, well, dude, that's not what I signed up.

I would feel like there's some sort of way out of that if it's not what he signed up for in the contract. If they can't pay him what he signed the contract for, the ironclad part, I'm only assuming that his representation was as thorough and as good as theirs is. If he can't get out, it's only because they can figure out a way for him to realize the money they owe him. If they can't pay him what he's owed, then there's got to be a way for him to extricate himself from that. contract. I would have to think so. And if the tournaments continue on it, they're just not what he's there are different amounts. It's like that's not what I, that's not the contract that gave you. I don't know. I'm just speculating. There's no way that that contract doesn't have stipulations that not only what you owe me on an annual basis, but what I'm paying for, what I'm playing for

for every event has to be what I'm signing up for. Yeah. Like I said, we're just going to have to sit back, wait and see what happens with it. Before we let you get out of here, here at the Queens Lounge at the Truist Championship. You've been to a lot of fantastic places. Got Pine Valley on your chest right there. I didn't intend to do this. You get that on eBay? Let me tell you something.

I was a junior in high school. The first time I played Pine Valley, a guy that my dad worked with was a member. And I was I was pouting because I had a golf tournament match around spring break of my junior of high school. And my dad was like, okay, I'll have this guy's dead and gone. Ted Nevins, the member, God rest his soul. He took my dad and I down there to play.

And I weighed about a buck 20. And I think I hit Forewood, a McGregor, Mirfield, Forward to the fourth hole from the top of the hill. So I walked to the 50 even par, okay? and the guy was catting for me, said to the caddyman, I said, this little twirp, he's made four like easy pars. So I made seven on number five and shot 88. And we had my first view of experience. All right. So with that, we're going to stay in the United States. Okay. You got three rounds of golf left in your life. Where are you going? You've been everywhere. Three different places. This is the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the,

the funnest but cruelest exercise imaginable. That's what we do. A lot of clubs are going to be offended by this. They, yes. Okay. Cyprus, there's something about it that is just, there's something like therapeutic slash spiritual slash cathartic about playing Cyprus point.

Cyprus would be one. National Golf Links would be top three. National, just seeing a bunch of guys wearing blazers and shorts, eating lobster tail is such a, it's such a douchey, but yet cool thing. It's like, I mean, it's amazing.

And the golf course is fun. And the golf course, it's the fun. It's the funnest, it's the funnest day in golf. And I'm out of the South Side business. So when south sides were flowing, all of it. And I don't need to have that my life anymore for it to be any, any less fun. And then number three, and you're going to have to live with this combo because one of them's new, the other one not so new. Sandhills, going to the sandhills of Nebraska is sandals change golf forever.

Because all these places that we're all lucky enough to go to and we can all give the roll call of all. all of them. Maybe eventually they would have happened. Sand Hills was the field of dreams, build it and they will come to Mullin, Nebraska, where the closest air strip is 70 miles away for guys who've got a bird and everybody else who makes that pilgrimage there, Sand Hills and now Gilhance's Caprock Ranch, which is just north of there in Valentine. And I played them both in the same day. There's nothing like it. And every mile in between Sand Hills Golf Club and Caprock Ranch is rolling sand dunes forever, and there could be thousands of great holes constructed

between there and the other. Those would be my three. That's good. I like it. I haven't gotten up there, but heard nothing but things. Have you been out to the sandills in Nebraska? Come on.

I have. There's a deal at Capriot. They don't let me out much. I work too much. And first of all, both of you love some red meat. You will never have a better steak after a round of golf at either place. They know how to grow some cattle.

I like that. Well, I trust your opinion on all things golf, Gary. You're a great one and we appreciate your time. Yeah, man. Thank you for coming in. Listen, sitting in this chair,

I love you, boys. I really do. I love what you do. I love you as friends. Thank you for having me. Absolutely. Anytime. Awesome, my man.

Appreciate you. And thanks to Truist for having us out here today. Absolutely. Gary Williams, you're the man. Thank you, my friend. My brother.

Thank you, my brother. Thank you, buddy. That's great.