Subpar - Mark Blackburn on his unique coaching method and reuniting with Max Homa

Episode Date: November 25, 2025

On this week's episode of GOLF's Subpar, Colt Knost and Drew Stoltz are joined by GOLF Top 100 Teacher Mark Blackburn for an exclusive interview. The author of "The Coaching Code" shares his inspiration for writing the book, the stress he felt at this year's Ryder Cup and why it was easy to reunite with Max Homa. --Score big this Thanksgiving + Black Friday with Fanatics SportsBook. Get massive value all weekend long: Two 50% SGP Profit Boosts + a 25% Anytime TD Boost on Thanksgiving… then a 50% CFB Boost and three 25% SGP Boosts on Black Friday.Plus, enter the Black Friday FanCash Drop for FREE and get a shot at up to $10,000 in FanCash.  ⁠⁠⁠https://joinfanatics.com/subpar⁠⁠⁠Must be 21+. GAMBLING PROBLEM? Call 1-800-GAMBLER, CT call [phone], MA call (800)-327-5050, NY call (877) 8-HOPENY, MD visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠mdgamblinghelp.org⁠⁠⁠⁠  Not available in all states. Terms apply. See Fanatics Sportsbook app.--Upgrade your golf wardrobe for a fraction of the price with Druids Golf—use code SUBPAR10. --Choose your style, pick your favorite Birdie Juice logo and shop from a line-up of top tier brands at ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://shop.golf.com/pages/storefront/golfsp⁠⁠⁠⁠ today!

All right, here we go. Welcome back to Subpar with Colt Nost and Drew Stoltz. Before we get going, the lovely lady that works here with is a subpar. Talia. Okay, it always leaves us a nice little note. She is the best, but got a little problem with this right here

because she always leaves us these nice little notes each week with all of our stuff on it. If you're watching on YouTube, you can see. This is Maverick, her dog, who we love. Our mascot. Well, the problem is he killed both of us. There's a couple birds that, the same color as you and I in our logo here, and we're dead.

It's not really in the spirit of Thanksgiving. Yeah, thanks, Talia. Appreciate you. Shout out to you, Talia. We love you anyways. But by the way, we're back with our partners over Fanatic Sportsbook, and they're making it easy to score big with exclusive Thanksgiving and Black Friday rewards.

This Thanksgiving, you'll get two same game parlay, 50% profit boost tokens, and a 25% anytime touchdown score profit boost to use on any of the three pro football games. Keep the winning streak going on Black Friday with a 50% college football profit boost and three 25% same game parlay profit boost tokens to use across the NBA slate plus. Join Fanatics and enter the Black Friday fan cash drop for free. It's your weekly chance to win up to $10,000 in fan cash. Other sports books just don't hit right. Fanatic Sportsbook, winning hits different here.

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See Fanatic Sportsbook app. All right, so ladies, it's Thanksgiving week, bud. Happy holidays to you and the family. Are we going to congratulate ourselves on our college boost dub? We are. For all the free chicken. I know it's turkey season, but there's a lot of chicken being handed out on this show. last couple weeks.

The SMU Mustangs, the BWICU Cougars, took care of business. Back-to-back weeks, we've hit a little parlay. What was this week's boost, or what was it, what was the money line on that? It was right around 285, I believe. Nice.

Plus 285. We were plus 600 on the NFL last week. Black Friday coming up. We're finally heating up in 2025. Yeah, now that golf's over. Yeah. We really drill down. Our golf bets this week,

we had two top 20 bets, Eric Cole and Davis, Thompson. Davis Thompson opened 10 under par. Yeah. He was looking, I was like, good pick. We got a guy, your air cold finished 21st, Davis Thompson finished 24th. I was monitoring. Puk. Yeah. I really

liked years after round one. A lot like I liked my Philadelphia Eagles bet. We will get to that. Just say that. It's kind of a similar situation. You're watching on YouTube. I got a little, you know, I just found this. This was the front of the closet. A little Dallas Cowboys. Yeah, just threw it together. When you beat the Eagles sleighs, you celebrate.

Just threw it together. How about a little scoreless second half for the vaunted cowboy defense? Hey, we're making improvements. How good are y'all? How bad? Much better? Or how bad is Philly's offense? They can't muster a point.

They had 21 early in the second quarter. Yeah, it looked pretty easy. The defense is getting better, I would say. There's only one way to go. Yes. I mean, we're dead last in every single category. I've got some new additions, some guys returning from injury. And look, I'm excited, man.

This week against KC is going to be great. But I do. I need you this way. I'm a big. I don't know. It kind of terrifies me a little bit. Come on. But I will say it's just always extra special when you beat the Eagles.

You know how I feel about the fans up there. Even though they were nice to me, for the most part, when I was up there at the truest championship this past season. But can we just address the fact that the Friday before the game, there was an elementary school in Philadelphia that set up boxing mats, big tall boxing mats with pictures of Dallas Cowboys on them and they were having the kids punch them and tackle them. Yeah, I like that.

You got to teach them that hate young. This is not the future of America. Get that in the DNA. Get that DNA down there in elementary school. I was learning the Bethagrian. I was like a college hate week. That's what you've seen like college hate week, which is this week, too, by the way. Amongst like 18 to 22 year olds, not seven and eight year olds.

It gets smashed and do a lot of dumb stuff anyways. Congrats on the dub, but I do need you this week. Go ahead and take care of the chiefs for everybody across the league. Here's open. But yeah, man, that was awesome. It makes this week's game very exciting. Kansas City with a big comeback win against the Colts to make now. I mean, I'll say this.

I think this game on Thanksgiving could go down as the most watched regular season game in NFL history. I believe the record is Cowboys Giants on Thanksgiving a few years ago. It was like $42.1 million. I'm going to say it beats that. Wow. Imagine if James was coming back down. The only guy that could outshine Patrick Mahomes. Shout out James.

What a star he is. All right. Well, we're going to get back to some football here in a little bit. We've got some picks to get to with Fanatic Sportsbook. But I've got to get some love to Sammy Valamaki, who picked up his first PGA tour win. First ever winner on the PGA tour from Finland, one by one shot over Max McGreevy down at Seattle. The final tournament of the year. So much on the line. Guys trying to keep their job.

Not one person moved into the top 100. So it was still a wild finish, though. Sammy had the lead going into the back nine. Got close there for a second. He made the huge par put. on 15, or on 16, excuse me, excuse me, Max McGreevy makes the 30-footer to look like he might have a chance

to possibly get in a playoff. Makes it on the 18th hole. Well, not only did he give him a chance to win his first PJ Tour event, but it absolutely just hosed Ricky Castillo who shoots a final round 62, which included a 28 on the front nine, needed a two- or three-way tie for second,

was in a two-way tie for second, in the clubhouse when Max McGreevy makes the 30-footer, and ends up knocking him out, and Ricky Castillo finishes 102. It's just a brute. It's one of those, like, subplots. And it was, it was weird that, you know, typically you see some shuffling around the 95 mark 105. Like somebody plays their way in, somebody plays their way out. Didn't happen this year, but there was a lot that could happen going out down to that 72nd hole.

Like you mentioned, the Castileo, dude, to have to, to go into the week knowing exactly what you got to do, I got to have a three-way tie for second. Like, that's, you got to go. And to actually go out there and do it, especially with a 62 of the final. and then to come up that that close is brutal. Good news for them, like finishing just outside the top hunter. You're going to get a lot of starts next year. It's not like the end of the world, like pack it up and find something else to do. Lee Hodges too, by the way, two points, shy on the whole season.

He may, it sounds like, have some starts next year since he missed some time early in the season. Yeah, I think he's going to get four events through a medical exemption. So that might not matter. Huge, yeah. I mean, he just needs to make a cut and get some points. But yeah, it's crazy how it can come down to that. I mean, two points the entire season. and you just look back and think, oh, my God, what just happened?

Like, one shot. I mean, Ricky Castillo, by the way, missed a two-footer on Sunday and still shot 62. Like, ended up being, I believe, his only bogey of the day where he three-putted on the 12th hole. But just, it's wild. But, I mean, this has got to do a lot for his confidence going forward. This was a star coming out of Florida. Big-time amateur golfer was on a Walker Cup team. Just didn't play that great this year.

But when he needed it the most, he went out and did it. And he's going to have conditional. status can still go to Q school try to improve that but man what a round but what a way to lose dude just sitting there in the clubhouse being like all i got to do is duck this all i got to do just he can't pass me he can't pass me 30 foot middle middle burger by the way and then yeah mcgris plays away in the top 60 and some names that are they were outside the top hunter that needed huge weeks that didn't do it uh joel damon being one is as well publicized last year he had the miracle you know the incredible showing on sunday to to keep his card this year

move it to a top 100. He had to miss the week before because of the birth of his child, which isn't ideal when you're trying to grind out your card, but he's conditional. Bo Hostler, it was just kind of been teetering

around that number for a long time. He's conditional. Matt Coacher, who hasn't not had a full card in a long time. But he's 13th in the all-time money list so he can use a career money exemption. You get one for top 25 all-time

and also top 50. So he can use that. I mean, he's going to be fine. Not too worried about it. Cooch. Other story, guys trying to get into that 51 to 60 category to get in the first two signature events of the year. Nico Etchevaria moved in. Sammy Valje, Maki, moved in, as did Max McGreevy. You got to just, I mean, what a performance by him the last two weeks. He was the bubble guy with two weeks to play. Number 100 heading into Butterfield Bermuda Championship.

Goes out and finishes T3 and solo second. Marbles. Marbles. Yeah. And now he moves into the top 60, but he went from trying to keep his job to now in two. signature events, fully exempt on the PGA tour, knocked Jordan Spieth to 61. Think he'll get it in? I think he'll be okay. You think he'll get in Pebble. Yeah, I think you'll be okay. You're going to have to write a really nice letter to the term.

The AT&T, Pebble Beach Pro Am. Write a real nice handwritten letter. See how that works for you. But that was the most movement there was, was that 51 to 60, having three guys move in it was pretty wild. And McGreeley, two weeks ago, you've been like, hey, dude, we'll just give you a full card for for next year. Is that cool?

And you just don't play. Like, yep. Done. And now, I mean, now the whole world just opened up for him. That's how quick it can happen. But shout out to him being the bubble guy and then go and finish three third second. Yeah. Pretty impressive.

You know, he had a rough upbringing having to play those guys from Mesa Verde. Out there growing up. Tough to not get fleeced. For him to come this far. That's very proud of him. He's like, dude, we're just playing straight up. Holy shit. What a great event.

I wasn't the only golf played this week. I got to play a little golf with our man, Charles Barkley. And let me tell you, I don't like to give him much love. I do think he's one of the funniest men in the world. But we like to talk a lot of shit to each other, especially on the golf course. And we hadn't played in quite some time. The man's gotten better.

His work with Stan Utley does not go unnoticed. It is fun to play. Like, it's always fun to be around Charles. He's hilarious. But playing golf back when he was like really shitty. Yeah. It was kind of. It was sad.

Yeah. And it was just, it took forever. And he couldn't get it off the tea. Nothing. it's a totally different chuck. He shot 90 when we played on Friday, but it was cold, wet, a little bit of wind,

and it easily could have been in like an 85. Like he shoots in the 80s consistently. And it is so much fun to play with him. And you can tell how much fun he's having. Being able to just, he drove him. I mean,

he did. He started over and started playing left-handed. He hit, seriously, out of 14 drives, he hit one bad one. He topped one off the 14th hole. Other than that, like he hit great.

And we had a nice little match, gave him a shot on everything but the par three. I ended up winning two up. I didn't play my best, but got the job done. I told everybody in the group, we had all these other bets. I was like, no disrespect, guys. I care about one match. And that's with Big Chuck over here,

because I cannot lose to him. But did you see the video where he said, I'm going to hit this like Justin Thomas. He talked about it hit that fairway finder. How do you think JT feels like, I don't really need you putting my teaching credibility on the line here? Just a little, just a little tee it down. He hit it good.

Yeah, hit it in the fairway. Dude, he's like the, I mean, he's the, gives everyone hope if you're battling the yips of any sort, chippet, putting, full swing. Like, what he did to the point where he literally started over, is like, I'm going on the left hand. I'm starting over at zero, just so I don't have the flinches.

To be back to where he is now, I'm playing with him with a member member. I was like, dude, he's actually, like, hitting it kind of hard, too. It's pretty remarkable. And he just loves playing. Like you said, when it was bad, it was like sad kind. I was like, dude, all he wants, he doesn't want to be the world's best goal.

He just wants to be able to come out here, gamble, have some fun, hit some shots, and, like, they went away for a while. but what a beast. And he's skinny now. He's a sex symbol. 65 pounds down. Damn.

Yeah. He, over every putt, he'd get over it. He'd be like, you're the best putter in the world. Did it work? He made a couple. I'm going to start doing that.

He made a couple. It was nice. He was chirping. He birdied the 12th, and then that's what we filmed the video on 13. And he actually got up on me in the match. I was two up through nine. And then he made some pars,

and he strokes on every damn hole. He birdied the par three. He was one up through 13 on me, but then I turned it back around. Turn it back on. Yeah. Closing. Closing.

Closing. Making cars. 90. 90 ain't going to cut it around here, Chuck. But bad, it was awesome. We were also on the range before. And it's Charles. So everybody's paying attention to what's going on.

Everybody, I mean, he's one of the most famous people in the world. And he's talking and telling stories. And then he's like, I tell y'all what? I love the Houston Rockets tonight. Minus two and a half against your Denver Nuggets.

So everyone, of course, boom. Phones out. Let's go. Start firing some action over there at the fanatic sports book. I was like, guys, I don't know if y'all know this. He's been pretty open that he's not the best gambler in the world. Maybe we don't.

He's talked about losing $30, $40, $50 million. But yeah, everybody went with Chuck and the Nuggets ended up winning by three outright. If I was there, I probably would have believed it, I would have believed it too and taking it. But Denver Nuggets, come on. Come on. Come on. Not a great gambler. Is he going to be at the Auburn? He's going to be in the house.

Nice. For the Iron Bowl. Beautiful. Absolutely. As he should be. And he'll be in here soon. We got to get him in here, talk a little more golf, but bad. We had so much fun, dude, it was awesome.

And, like, I very much appreciate, like, the people I've met through this game and everything. But I just was standing there Friday at Whist Brock, and I was like, I'm in, like, all right now. I'm sitting here playing golf with Charles Barkley and George Brett. George. I mean, George is the greatest. They're just two dudes. But that's just two dudes. I grew up idolizing, right?

And I'm sitting there, I'm playing golf with him talking shit. George is my partner. I don't need to mention the other two guys I played with. They're not even famous. Pete Kurnish. Whatever the hell of that guy's last name is, Pete. But I bet it was an awesome day. Yeah, that's a good time.

Just a little, just a young man from Pilot Point. Pilot Point, Texas, growing up with the horses. Yep, now hang off with Chuck and George. All right, let's get to some gambling here. Make sure you go download the Fanatic Sports Book app and follow along with us. Slee is good in college last week. not great in NFL. It's time to bounce back.

It's Thanksgiving. So we're going to give out several bets this week. We got our NFL money line parlay we're going to start off with. And we're going to go with the Buffalo Bills traveling to Pittsburgh. We're going to take them to win. San Francisco 49ers are heading to Cleveland. We're going to go with the Niners. Chador is the truth.

He had one week of practice. The truth. Yeah, dude. Imagine they had a whole season. Yeah, dude. We'll see what you're about. It's going to get dangerous. San France, for real. And then I don't know, I don't know if you like this.

one, but I know you're rooting for it. I'm rooting for it. The Dallas Cowboys are underdogs at home against the Chiefs. I'm still not sold on the Chiefs. I think they can beat them. The Cowboys are starting to play really good. Dak Prescott is playing very nice. George Pickens just throwing the damn ball.

Yeah. He is a monster. He's unguardable. But that's going to be our parlay. Bills, Cowboys, Niners. Okay. I like two of them and I want the other one. Okay, perfect.

Yep. Well, you were all about the Eagles this past week, and I texted you after two, like halfway through the second quarter when it was 21-0-0 and I said, It's a nice pick, Slee's. Yeah. And I was like, yeah, normally these don't work out like that. At guess what?

Yeah, 21-0, looking like it's going to be a mercy rule, end up losing that. Nice. All right, so that's our parlay. And all right, well, since it is Thanksgiving, we're going to throw you a little something special, little turkey day special here, little same game parlay from both of us. I'm obviously going to go in the Cowboys Chiefs game, which I will be dialed into. I cannot wait for this game. Same game parlay.

I'm going to go Jake Ferguson, anytime touchdown. Okay. Rishi Rice, anytime. touchdown. And George Pickens, who has just been a monster this year with the Los Cowboys. He has, he has more receiving yards than the entire, all the Pittsburgh wide receivers put together. He's unbelievable. He's the hardest guy to tackle after he catches the ball of any wide receiver I've seen in a long time. All right. So Jake Ferguson. And very level-headed dude also. So you know what you're getting. Jake Ferguson, anytime touchdown. Rishie Rice, anytime touchdown.

George Pickens, over 90 yards. That little three-team, same game. Same game. game parlay plus 1,075. Oh, hello. Treat yourself. Yeah, we're going to be drinking the nice stuff. Okay, we might as well add to that here. I'm going over to Detroit, Detroit Lions, Green Bay Packers, okay? I'm all lions in this game.

Weren't great last week. Need to show up. They're also monsters, I feel like, at home offensively. So you'll see a little trend here. I'm going Amin-Ross St. Brown, over 80 yards receiving. I'm going Jamir Gibbs over. 40 yards receiving. That's just one little

screen for him. He's ridiculous. Take that thing 70 to the crib. And I'm also going lines minus 2.5 for the game at home. That pays plus 8.10. That should be a hell of the game.

Both of these things and you just retire. Oh my God. We're done. Yeah. It's a wrap. That'll be nice, wouldn't it? I'll get you something nice at both of these hits.

Perfect. Yeah. I'm still waiting on my 40th birthday present. Hey, keep waiting. Whatever. Keep waiting on that. It's just I'm getting it custom made. It takes a few years.

By the way, I hope the Detroit Lions get it all out of their system on Thanksgiving because the Cowboys head up there the following Thursday. You're on a little bit of a stretch right now. We'll find out if they're... For sure. If they're who they say they are. All right. That's going to be a hell of a game, though.

Yeah, that's always a fun one, too. God, I can't wait to just sit on my ass and watch the goal. Three good ones on Thanksgiving. You got Packers, Lions, Cowboys, Chiefs, Ravens, Bengals. And then Joe Burroughs probably back. Friday comes with some good college, too. Also, speaking of that, Friday, make sure you're tuned in, Amazon Prime, 9 a.m. Eastern Time.

I'll be on the coverage for the Skins game. First one since 2008, bringing it back, a little different format. We got Zander Shafley, Kegan Bradley, Tommy Fleetwood, and Shane Lowry, filling in for Justin Thomas out at Panther National. I'm going to be on the ground. It's going to be a lot of fun, so make sure you tune into that. You'd be walking and talking. Yes.

You're the walking talk interview guy? Yeah. Are you going to get a little... Do you think they'll even bring up the Rider Cup? I don't know if you noticed this. It's too American Rider Cup. I'm praying to bring it up. two euros.

I'm probably going to bring it up. Also, he's not playing in the skins game, but I just got to read this stat from Justin Ray about Scotty Sheffler because it's just absurd. Justin Ray tweeted out yesterday. With the RSM Classic Complete, the statistical races for the 2025 PGA tour season are now officially over.

Scotty Sheffler officially led the tour in round one, round two, round three, and round four scoring average in 2025. The last person to do that, Tiger Woods in 2000. By the way, that's over the last 40 years.

They're the only two people to do it. As you know, Tiger in 2000 was okay. I would say that's the best golf that's ever been played in the history of golf is what I would argue for Tiger 2000. There's a lot of like Tiger and Scotty, like comp's coming now, but when you just say,

hey, the last 40 years, there's only that happened twice, Scotty, and the other one's Tiger 2000, well done. That's crazy, though, because he's in the hunt like every single time. You would think Sundays, you know,

he has the lead. It's like you play conservative, try to hold on, don't, you know, limit your mistakes and things like that. Like, it's just to do it all four rounds, dude, it's, that's, I mean, he's head and shoulders. Yeah, you're also normally playing in the tougher conditions on Saturday and Sunday. I mean, you're playing late. He ain't tee off at 8.30. Yeah, not going out there and going low.

What also tells me, Slees, I mean, he led round one and two, he obviously never gets the bad wave. Yeah, Scott. He has no idea what it's like. See you do that in my waves, like. It would be top 25, maybe. That is just insane. And Justin Ray, you're the goat. Appreciate you, as always.

Before we get to our interview, by the way, we forgot to make some college picks. We're going to throw a college bed out there for you since it did win last week. Rivalry week, arguably the biggest robbery in all of college football. Michigan, Ohio State. Michigan's won four years in a row. And from our man Mike McCann learned because they didn't play in COVID. They've actually, they haven't won in six years. Ohio State hasn't.

So they are looking to turn this thing around. They're the number one team in the country. But Ohio State's defense is nasty. their average are giving up like seven and a half points a game. So I'm going to take the under 44.5 in Michigan, Ohio State. Michigan, not exactly an offensive juggernaut either. Oh, they're supposed to be 31 and potentially snowing, which would favor Michigan and a low-scoring game.

All right, I like that. There's so many good rivalry games. I'm picking this one out of all of them because I think there's two teams with totally different ends of the spectrum. I got OU minus 10 against LSU. OU still got everything to play for, playoffs at stake. They're at home. Meanwhile, LSU, greasy win against Arkansas,

and then damn near a loss at home to Western Kentucky. I feel like they are waiting for Lane Kiffin's plane to land, move on to next year. They're going to go to Norman. It feels like they're getting worse each week, and OU's getting better. So give me OU at home minus 10 against LSU. It's a lot of points, but I think LSU's like,

what are they playing for at this point? You like the favorites. At this point. Yeah, I didn't mind you're under either. But, yeah, I just, I mean. Western Kentucky at home. Yeah, there you go. All right, that's our college picks.

OU minus 10, Michigan, Ohio State, under 44.5. Now let's get to our guest this week. The man knows some golf, and he's got a new book out called The Coaching Code. Mark Blackburn joins us on subpar. All right, folks, we are privileged to have the knowledge and insight of the number one instructor in the golf world. He has helped craft the golf swings of some of the best players out there, and he's sharing all his best secrets in his new book. The coaching code, Mark Blackburn is with us.

Got to add author to the list on the old resume now, Mark. Congratulations. Yeah, thanks, boys. Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be with you. Are you the first person from Southern Mississippi to write a book? Or read one. I bet Brett Fav's written one.

He's quite famous. And then Ray Guy, two people you wouldn't know went to Southern Miss, but two pretty impressive football players. Yeah, that is true. That is fair. Is there going to be an audio book available for the reading impaired? It's a great question. Lots of people have asked that.

I think when we get through the holidays, once I get on the West Coast and I may have some downtime, I'll probably record the audio book. But until then, it is purchase Amazon on my website. Yeah, what is Mark Blackburngolf.com? Or Blackburngolf.com. Yeah, leave out the Mark. Blackburngolf.com or Amazon check it. He sent Sleeves 9.

Autographed copy. I'm a treasure this and Trevor. It's beautiful. And I was scrolling through the contents here, Mark, and something just jumped off the page. And I think chapter four you wrote about Slees. Here we go. What you don't say is more important. I don't subscribe to that, Mark, just for the record. We have differing ideologies on that particular area. Well, both of you guys make a living talking. So that's the only downfall. So you might need to overlook that chapter. It may not be pertinent to you, too. Okay. Well, on a serious note, congratulations on the

book. But just tell us a little bit about it. Like, what made you want to sit down and actually do this? Because, I mean, this takes a lot of time and you're a busy man. Yeah, so I think it's one of those things where once you've been doing this job for a while, you feel like what's something you could give to people to understand first off, you know, what is it like coaching the best players in the world? But then also, what does it take to accomplish the successes that the best players in the world really have. And the book is really a sort of, if you like, behind the curtain, look at developing high performance, which the art and science of coaching that, but then what are some real life case studies of like, how do you apply that? And I think most people are a little bit

maybe naive to really how hard these players truly work and that their overriding pure preoccupation is to essentially get better and they will leave no stern unturned and they'll work really, really hard at it. And I think golf's a hard game. Technology and the work, the OEMs have done, have made golf a lot, a lot easier, but it's still a really hard game. And I think understanding the amount of work that it takes to be as proficient as the best players in the world, I just don't think people truly understand that. And if maybe they can get an understanding of what they could work on in the areas that are really important and what happens to be a good student as a good player.

You know, what do they do that the club golfer doesn't? I think then all of a sudden they may be able to empathize a little bit more with a better player, but then for their own golf game, I think it's much easier for them to understand, well, that's what it's going to take. Wow, that's actually a lot more than I thought because, you know, lots of people think, I'm going to play golf for a living. They don't really understand what actually goes into it. Both of you do as former players.

You play for a living. Both of you, it's really hard. And it makes you realize how good the good players are. The other part I wanted to do was to put something down to where you kind of have a stick in the sand. And I'm pretty proud of the fact that all the players I've coached all do it very, very differently, but what's the common thread, right? So how do I go about it? What's my process, if you like, to developing high performance?

And I think this is a good insight into kind of the structure I do, the plan, the way I go about it. But it's very palatable. I'm easy to read. Matt Rudy, my writer at Golf Digest for the last 15 years. He'd written a lot of books, helped me with it. And we kind of tried to put something together which blended, you know, the humanistic power coaching and then the modern side of the data that we're used to make these decisions and to realize that it's not really a guess.

And it's probably a bit more science than people realize and that golf's just a very hard game. And there's lots of variables that are ever changing. So you can get an appreciation of how good the players really are. And there's lots of different stories of the players I've worked with over the years. and it's one of these books where, look, I've tried to show the players how good they are in a good light and the successes and what they did to accomplish it. I'm not in a very small world. I'm very proud of the relationships I have with players and I'd much rather show people, you know, that they're great individuals as opposed to anything that might be a little bit more critical. I look at it as privileged, a bit like an attorney.

So I try and take care of my people. I'm proud of that. But there's some great stories in here that are entertaining and very enlightening. Yeah, I look forward to peruse it a little bit. I think the case study stuff is going to be awesome, getting the actual, like you said, behind the scenes look at it. And Mark, you've been teaching for so long, you've gotten so good at it. And you've helped so many players develop and improve their golf game. How have you changed would you say from the time you started coaching to now? How would you say you've developed and improved as a teacher? Yeah, immensely. I think, look, you learn the best thing about doing something for a long period of time is that you gain wisdom. And in the book, I talk about it all the time. And when I speak to you. people you don't learn from success. You learn from all of the things that you mess up and the failures. And I think if you can bestow the things that make people successful in golf and what works well and you learn every time you're with a client or a player and when you struggle,

you figure out, hey, this is what I did wrong. If I got another opportunity, this is what I would do right. I definitely think I've evolved a lot. I think when you're early on, especially going back 25 years when I first came on tour, your sort of, if you like impact was to be able to show people something that may be a little bit different. And as we all age, we tend to say less, we tend to lead more, we tend to prompt the player a little bit. And when you're younger, you kind of just verbal diarrhea, you're giving them a load of information. And that's not really what people want. The best coach is, someone like a Randy Smith, who obviously, it does an amazing job with Scotty, but it's very minimal what you say. It's not continually talking. It's more

prompting the player. And I think you just evolve over time. My goal is to try and become better as a coach. And I think that you learn more from your successes, but you learn a lot more from the struggles you've had. And then you take that into the next relationship. And if you do a good job, you get more players coming and then you learn a lot from the players you coach. So people always say, I learn more from the players that I coached than I teach them. And I think this definitely something to that. And it's just one of those things where you're always working on your craft. And I'm really passionate about golfers. You guys know, I'm a full-on golf dork. But I also try and make it fun. And I try and connect with the students and the players. And I think I become a lot

better at knowing when to shut up, when to say something, you know, whether some people need, you know, a kick in the rear end or whether some people need a hug and they're all very, very different. You have to be a chameleon. You've got to change a little bit. But I think as you evolve, the technical side of teaching is better than it's ever been. I think that's quite easy relative with all the tech we have now, but it's the human skills. It's like the connection with someone and getting somebody to be able to do something that they didn't think was possible.

That's the fun part about coaching. And I think along all sports, you know, great coaches have the ability to get something out of somebody that they didn't think was possible. Yeah, I noticed like right out of the gate in the first chapter, you talk about using technology and data, and used Max Homa as an example. When he came to you the first time,

he couldn't figure out why he wasn't a more consistent driver of the golf ball. And you dove deepened all his numbers and everything. But for the average person at home, who doesn't have access to all that kind of data, all that kind of technology, like what can they learn from this book and what can they use to make themselves better? I think the first thing is to really understand a diagnosis.

Like if you're sick, this is a bad analogy, but it's very similar. Bad golf is like being sick. So you can go see a quack doctor and get a prescription and take a few pills. But generally speaking, if you're just treating a symptom and not the cause, you don't really get better. You're still sick. But if you go see a specialist who does a bunch of different tests and looks a bit deeper, all of a sudden you might actually get the true causation of what you're doing versus just what's symptomatic of where you are at the time.

And I think that's what golfers need to realize. There's lots of amazing coaches out there, people that are great players themselves, that know the game and understand it. And I encourage everyone, look, go get a good diagnosis. People are willing to spend $1,000 on a driver, but they don't want to go spend any money on a golf lesson because they think a golf lesson they're going to get worse. And the reality is if you go find a great coach, someone that's successful, they're going to be able to help you with their game.

And I always look at it is, look, you're on a journey with a golfer. most of the relationships I have with players last years in years and club golfers, you know, they're sort of decade, so to speak. So it's like trying to show them, this is what you need to do to play better. And I think in the book, the learning is, look, there's no quick fix. Every great player works extremely hard. Yes, you might think they're a lot more talented, but relative, they just work outrageously hard at what they do and their craft.

And I think that's the part that people got to learn from the book is there's a lot more that goes into it. And if you want high performance, like truly performing at the highest level, the capacity that we each have as an individual varies. But if you're going to perform to your highest potential, what are you actually willing to do? And the truth of it is most people aren't willing to do what's necessary to get it done. But the folks in the book, the best players in the world, generational talents, they do. And that's why their outcomes are so good. Yeah, I think that's so important to say is just because your average guy at home goes and gets with a PGA professional here and they take one lesson and like, well, that didn't work. I still suck. Yeah, it's not going to be

fixed overnight. Like you said, this takes years and years. And a guy that just won for you, Matt Fitzpatrick, who you've been working with, wasn't having the greatest season starting out when y'all were working together. But over time, you could tell what y'all were working on, got better and better, made the Ryder Cup team. And now he just won the Tour championship on the DP World Tour. Can you just talk a little bit about like how much trust it takes between player and coach to keep that going when you're not seeing the results you want. Yeah, so it's an interesting one. Obviously, I've worked with Alex Fitzpatrick, Matt's younger brother for about five years

since he was a senior at Wake. And then when Matt was struggling earlier in the year, his coach has Mike, original coach for a long time Mike Walker. He had to take care of some family stuff. He had a relative that was ill. and so he was basically was difficult for him to be able to travel. So I was asked on an interim basis if I could kind of help a little bit post the masters. And so initially, like obviously I know Matt because of Alex, but essentially it was,

here's an opinion. Here's what I think you're doing. This was to help Mike in the interim. And then obviously we kind of turn the ship a little bit and he's gradually played better. But truthfully, I've been trying to learn that. Now I'm Matt's full-time coach. Mike's tied up in the UK, but essentially Mike laid a great foundation. And then I've come in and I've got to try and move the ship

in maybe a slightly different direction, try and connect with the golfer, which is very different. The nice thing is Matt's English. I'm originally from England. He's big into football, you know, soccer, as you would call it. So we kind of have some common ground, very sarcastic as I've known to be. So kind of these are these sort of, you're trying to find a connection with somebody. But again, it's one of those things when you're making a change and you're having intervention.

Okay, this is what we're trying to do. This is where we're headed. This is not necessarily going to be easy. But frustration and struggle are all essential parts of learning. Like, if you don't have that, you never really get mastery of anything. So along the way, it's like trying to be the calm and the chaos. I talk about that in the book. Like, this is going to be chaotic and a bit discombobulated at times.

But I'm here with you. like I'm guiding you. Think of Star Wars, Obi-1 Kenobi and Luke Skywalker, you two might be too young for that. But essentially, you're trying to kind of create that where you're taking them, this is where we're going. This is what we're doing. We're continually measuring, validating what we're doing. And then, you know, the proof is in the pudding. Ultimately, you have to write the score down. But if you're doing the right things and you've done the right diagnosis, over time, results will prevail. And then that's what's been so great for Matt. And probably the most gratifying part was the Ryder Cup because traditionally his rider cup record hasn't been great, but

again, we all know match plays an interesting thing. He lost his singles match at Whistler Straits. The Berger Berger was 10 under and he was 9 under, but his record reflects he had a loss. So it's not always sort of completely objective, but going into the Ryder Cup, he wanted to make a big

impact. He wanted to have a successful Ryder Cup and he did and he was arguably one of the best European players. So that was fantastic, really, really good. And then obviously the win, yesterday was the icing on the cake, which was great. But again, it's, it's when you get with a player, you're trying to find the common ground, how can you connect with them really quickly, and then what can you do to guide them to create that reassurance? We all want to coach.

We want someone to be in there in the thick of it with us, but showing us that there's a light at the end of the tunnel, this is what we're doing. This is how we're going to get there. You can do this. And even though it's going to be difficult, I'm here with you, I'm in it with you. And I think that's what great coaching is. If I look at the great team, in every sport, they might be perceived as being a little bit hard and a little bit firm. But the reality is that's what it probably takes to push someone beyond their current capacity to get them towards the genius that they have inside that they don't quite see, but us as coaches do. Before we get back to Mark Blackburn, I want to tell you about Druids Golf.

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With thousands of combinations available, there's something for every golfer. And right now, you can get an extra 10% off with code subpar 10 at checkout. So no matter where you're teeing it up, look sharp for less with Druids. Now back to Mark Blackburn. I'm glad you brought up Matt Fitzpatrick because you look at his golf swing. It looks completely different than adjusted rows. So you also work with Max Homa, right? It looks nothing like that.

Yet you coach both of them. and both extremely well. And I'm not saying Fitz is a field player necessarily, but you do have guys that are less technique oriented than others, I would assume. How do you alter how you coach based on if a guy is a super technique oriented guy versus a guy's like, no, no, no, I just need some feels that work. Yeah, it's a great question. I mean, that's the fun part about what I do is that you're trying to learn the individual. And once you know what works for the individual, the artistic part of coaching is then adapting to the athlete. right? So it's one of those things. If someone says, this is how I teach and I teach everyone the same,

well, that's fine, but you're limiting who you can help. And I think what makes golfers great is they're all very unique in their own way. So you've just got to find what is it that they resonate really well to? And then you've got to lean in on that. And I say we create a vernacular with every player that's very different. Like when I was working with Colt, like we'll have terms and expressions for things that are going to be unique to Colt. Charlie Hoffman's probably got the most entertaining, most crude swing cues, which aren't suitable for this podcast, but that's what works really well for Charlie. Daniel Burgers might be different.

Rosie's might be different. Like, you know, I would say the two players I've coached are the most golf, savvy IQ on board can have a lot of information and do well with it would be probably Rosie and Homer. Both Max and Justin are unbelievable. and they're very detailed. I have to kind of be like, no, you need to forget that and pare it down, whereas someone like Matt Fitz or Daniel Berger are very much where just tell me what I need to do and then you give them a one simple thing that kind of brings it all together and they'll go

with that and they are more on a need-to-know basis. So everybody's different, but that's the fun part, right? It's trying to figure the person out. And I think my, if you like philosophy is I have less players and I want to truly coach them. I'm not just someone who's going to teach you on the range and say, there you go. I want to go watch you on the golf course. What do you do? How are you trying to play strategically, tactically? I'm pretty, you know, I'm going to push you. My job's not to be your buddy. I talk a lot about that in the book. My job is to be the coach that you respect that's pushing you

to be to be the best that you can be and to cultivate that high performance mindset, which if you look across all sports, that's what the greats all have. There's no, there is no room for mediocrity. As Nick Saban says, high achievers don't like mediocrity people, just don't like it. So, again, I know I'm not for everybody, but if you truly want to get better, I'm going to push you in probably places that other people may not be willing to do. Absolutely. And I've seen it firsthand. But I want to talk about Justin Rose, because I think he's one of the great stories of this past year in golf. I mean, 45 years old, having arguably one of the best seasons of his career, contending at major championships, making the Ryder Cup team.

I mean, he's playing, in my opinion, probably the best golf of his life right now. Can you just talk about working with him? Because, as you said, he leaves no stone unturned. I mean, he's about as detailed as you can come, even off the golf course with this, with this RV he travels with. It's a recovery RV. Yeah, Sub-Rosa. Sub-Rosa is a converted RV, which has, you know, a basically cold plunge,

hot tub, sauna, infrared bed, has obviously a shower. He can do oxygen rides in there. He's got treatment in there. So yeah, I mean, I call him Peter Pan, right? Like he's 45, but he's probably the biological age of about a 30-year-old, which is why you see him performing so well. I mean, Rosie is a pro's. He's got an incredible team. Charlie Marshall, Justin Buckthorpe, like his two physical guys are really good. Obviously, he's worked with Fooch for a long, long time. Fooch came back on the back a couple of years ago, and Fooch deniers a knighthood for some of the stuff he has to put up with.

However, he's the person that under the, if you look at their performance in majors in the last two years, Fuch knows what to do and what to say to Rosie at the right time, and I think that's a big credit to him. Rosie can be challenging at times, as people you can see, but that's what makes him really, really good. but to work with him as a coach, he's phenomenal. Like he's really, really good.

We've never had a crossword. He is brilliant. He wants you to tell him what to do. He wants to be coached. He wants to be pushed. I mean, he's a coach's dream, to be honest, like really, really good. But he works so hard. He's in the gym.

He's doing his recovery. He doesn't leave anything unturned with his swing, with his putting. I mean, if you remember, if you actually go back, Phil Kenyon, another person, Phil Kenyans made into an incredible putter. But early on, Rosie was not a good putter. It was a very good ball striker. Him and Fowles had a lot of success, really good, but he couldn't putt it in the ocean.

And then when Phil started working with him, he won the Olympics, and he's become a phenomenal putter. So again, he's also adapted his game really, really well. But he's fun to work with, works ridiculously hard. He was in Birmingham for three days before we went to Memphis, you know, training camps, and we do those sort of four times.

a year, but he works like nobody else. It's unbelievable. So there's a reason he was the number one player in the world. There's a reason at 45 he still plays like he does. I still think he's going to have a good chance to win some majors in 26, hopefully into 27. So if you're looking at, you know, how do you play the game tactically, strategically? There is nobody better. His preparation is meticulous, like at golf course for a major for these big events, really, really good. and he's he has a lot of fun to work with great dude. Yeah, if you're a coach and you want to work with someone that's fully invested in the process of doing all the things that are necessary, Rosie is, bar none incredible.

And he wrote the forward for the coaching coach. And he's an author, yeah. Yeah, I know. He did a good job of that. I was very impressed. Feels like chat, GBT. No, I think Justin Rose has become the benchmark for longevity. He and Adam Scott, I would say,

the modern day. Like they've been good since they were young and they've stayed good the entire time, which is really, really hard to do. His putter, I think he's been the best putter at the Ryder Cup, the last two that I've witnessed, especially in Rome. But if you got a minute,

let's talk a little Ryder Cup because I think you are in such a unique position that you've worked with players on both sides. You've been in both team rooms. You see how they operate. And without giving away confidential information and things like that, what are the biggest differences you see

in the way like the U.S. operates and Europe operates that week? or throughout the process, I guess. Yeah, I think, look, the most important thing to understand is both teams have incredible players. And on paper, the players are literally probably, and both teams would hate me saying this, but it's essentially a toss of the coin. The players are really good.

So then how do you get the best out of the players that you have? What are the assets that they all bring from a team perspective, team room culture, but then on the golf course. Like how do you get the best out of them? So objectively now, we're just being objective. Clearly, whatever Europe does, they've gotten the best out of the players that they have. And I think we can all say that like objectively. That's not an opinion.

So then you start to look a bit deeper. Okay, well, how do they do that? How are the pairings? What's done? Now, we chatted after, I think it was a week of Jackson, after the Ryder Cup. And we kind of chatted briefly about it on your show. And I think one of the things that's very misunderstood is just the fact that Europeans play as juniors, we play Foresomes, four ball, like most of our matches at home internationals, junior matches, everything is all played in that match play format. And I coach golf in the US for kids and juniors, and most of the golf is individual stroke play tournaments.

So there is arguably a lot of history there, not to say that people haven't played in a Walker Cup, but there's a skill and an art. of alternative shot or four foursums and then the same with four balls. So I think that they have some advantage over time just because of that. But I think Luke Donald, to give him every credit, along with Francesco, sorry, excuse me, Eduardo Molinari, have done a really good job of like identifying the characteristics of players of how they mesh, what they do well, and how that they can best get the most out of each player, you know, and what are the things they do? I'm not privy to a bunch of that stuff. I just see it because we don't get in the big team room. We're just, you know, in the player support area. And I think to every credit, Luke's

a cerebral guy, very smart. I don't think he leaves anything stone unturn. And his players also have come together. They're united for whatever reason. Everybody sort of really buys into the SEVE, the spirit of SEVE and everything that goes along with the Ryder Cup. And I think that there's a lot of heritage there that they tap into, and for the week, they become unified and they do a good job. On the other side, I was in the US team in Rome. They're a bunch of incredible players. They just sometimes is lacking that catalyst of like how do they all kind of unite and get together. However, I wasn't in the team room in New York, so I can't say that. Everybody was raving about how good a job. Keegan did. He brought everybody together.

some of their pairings didn't make much sense to me. The course set up didn't make much sense if I'm just third party looking at it. But again, I don't know the ins and outs of all of that. So I think it's very easy to be critical. But if I was a special consult, like there's things probably the US could potentially do a mirror from the European team to be similar to bring it together. But I don't think it's a talent thing at all. I think the US players are incredible, really good.

And you saw that in the match, the individual. match portion of it come Sunday. I do think the euros are a little tired. I'm not sure the order of how a play was done was probably the best when you reflect on it. But the US players are really, really good. It's just like setting them up for success and how do you do that. So leadership is not a popularity contest either, right? I think one thing that I would say Luke's really good at is he's good about having hard conversations and telling people what maybe they don't want to hear and you're not necessarily going to play with who you want to, but this is who you need to play with based on the stats, what we need to do to win the cup as a team. So that would be kind of my superficial sort of

outside looking in. But again, it's one of those things. It's like, it's very easy. If you weren't there, it's easy to be critical. I wasn't in the US team room, so I can't really make a comment. Those are just generalities that I would tell you of why I think Europe does really, really well in the Ryder Cup. Yeah, whatever they're doing, it's working. Luke Donald, just a phenomenal job. Wouldn't be one bit surprised to see him in a dare manner, leading the way again. I know the team wants it and why not? I mean, they just went on foreign soil and did what's one of the hardest things to do in golf. And that's to win a Ryder Cup on foreign foreign soil and they did it in convincing fashion up until the very last minute there on Sunday.

But I want to talk a little bit about the crowd because I was in the booth all week. So I never got to be out there in the gallery and never got to hear anything. Obviously, you hear the player's side of it and everything. But for you, you've been, you were there in Rome. You were there in New York. How bad was it in New York? I mean, it's interesting. It's what I, it's what I, expected. Yeah. It isn't anything any different, like, okay, if you love U.S. sport, I live in America. I have American passport, American wife, American kids.

I'm American as much as, right? So let's start it here. If you watch American sports and you went to a game up in an Islanders hockey game, if you went and watched the jets or the giants, if you went and watched the Eagles, you'll get and get that. Everybody knew that. And then you throw in alcohol and people have been drinking all day. I mean, it doesn't take a genius to know that that is going to happen.

Was it bad? I mean, I heard some stuff, but I wasn't privy to some of the stuff that was really bad. I was walking the course all the time with the players. But it isn't anything I wasn't expecting. And I think Luke did a good job of prepping that this is likely to happen anyway. Now, people always go a little over the top. And it does amaze me some of the stuff that grown humans, when they've had something to drink about other people.

It's quite entertaining. Some of it was bad, but it wasn't anything that you wouldn't expect at a NFL game on a Sunday in some of those stadiums I mentioned. I mean, it's just, that's the crowd. It's a rough crowd. You know that's going to happen. I know it's golf,

but people are going to golf. They want to, you know, we play up the patriotic side, the red, white and blue. You're just, you know what's going to happen. And you're getting your ass whipped. you just wind them up. It's just coming. It's not a question of Yves.

It's a question of when. But it wasn't anything that I wasn't surprised about, and I'm sure that the players probably were expecting it anyway. And isn't part of that? I'm not saying I agree with everything that was yelled out there. I'm sure there was some way out of line stuff. But isn't part of that what makes us love the Ryder Cup? That's part of why I love it.

It's the only thing in golf where it's like two teams, us versus them. And you get to cheer when a team misses a put. and you get to cheer when they hit a bad shot. And like that's what makes it different than just going and watching a regular golf tournament. It's the only one we got like that. People are passionate, right? We all get behind our countries. And I think it's a really good thing.

Like that's what makes the Ryder Cup to your point so unique is everybody is really, really passionate. And I think when you're in Europe, it'll probably, you know, obviously they're going to be very pro-European. Potentially they might be a bit more respectable. But again, we're in a major. metropolitan one of the biggest cities in the world in new york you it's it's a little different you can't really compare rome to new york i'm sorry yeah when it's a dare it'll probably be a little bit

different but that is what makes the rider cup great that's what we want to see these golfers who a lot of times are pretty subdued and stoic we like to see them fist pumping and getting you know excited shouting like they're passionate that's what people do when they're you know when they're playing and at the end of the day they still shake hands afterwards there were u.s players in the european team room celebrating afterwards so it's like it's still golf and you go back when we got to jackson i was there with rasmus there's europe there's u.s players everybody's it's it's back to normal golf right so it's one week um i think it's good i think that's why we love the rider cup that people are passionate about it you know they want to represent their country and

you get to see a different side of players i think it's kind of cool On a scale of 1 to 10, what was the panic level when Team USA was making the move on Sunday? And it looked like they could possibly do them probable and come back and win the Ryder Cup. Yeah, because I had three guys on Team Europe and I was fully immersed in it, I was highly stressed. Yes. So I thought when Fitsy was five up or whatever on Bryson, I was like, oh, this is David and Goliath. This isn't supposed to happen. And then when Bryson came back, I was like, hmm, this is not.

And then I think JT won on the last hole, like some stuff kind of was getting really, really close. And then obviously on those holes, 15, 16, 17, we're kind of hanging around. And then when all the European players were coming out, everyone was, you know, it was long faces. And then obviously it kind of flip flat back the other way. But yeah, it was good. That's what makes the Riding Cup great. And it's actually the same in Rome. In Rome, I can remember, you know, after Max had.

finished in singles, like, we thought we were like, oh, we could still do this. So again, that's what makes it so good is the format is on Sunday. There's a chance if one team just dominates and you don't quite get the line up right, you know, singles is the kind of brings it all back together. So, yeah, everyone was nervous. It was a lecture out there. But that's what kind of makes it more fun when you win, right? You kind of have that.

It's why people like to gamble. I don't know what you're talking about. Love the gamble. People love to gamble. Do you think they'll ask Luke Donald to go to run it back? I think everyone would love Luke Donald to do it again. I don't know whether Luke Donald would. Yeah, that's the question.

Do you want it if you're him? I might sail off into the sunset because you've won home and away. There's nothing to prove. I think it's probably arguably the greatest Rider Cup captain anyway. I'd selfishly like Luke to do it again if I'm coaching players on the European team. So I don't know. He does a very good job of it. And with most of the things Luke does, he's smart man.

and he puts his mind to it, he'll fully immerse, and all the players want him to do it. So who knows? I mean, I think as a player, 72% winning percentage, now 2 and 0 as a captain, I'd be like, that's it. See you, this has been great, guys. We'll let somebody else handle this. That's how I would too.

But I think because it is about the team, if he feels like he gives Team Europe the best opportunity to win the Ryder Cup at Adair Manor, I think he would risk his own career, as in record to help the team, which I think is an honorable thing. I think that's pretty cool. And a lot of the players would want him to do that. Obviously, I think what works well, and I think this did work well for Team USA is that when someone is closer and age to the players, they relate better to the players potentially, and the players will be feel more comfortable to maybe

approach to captain and have conversations. I know that I heard nothing but amazing reviews of Kegan for Team USA. And I think that's... you know, bringing those generations together, I think is a lot easier. I agree with you. If you were in charge of the U.S., where would you go for the captain? But a dare manner? That's a great question. Well, if the guys said that Kagan did a great job, then, and I really like Kegan.

I personally would have played myself if I was Kegan, but that's a whole other Ketler fish. But, I mean, I think if Kegan, everyone liked him and he did a good job, I think that maybe Kegan would be a good person. to do it again. I mean, obviously, everyone's talking about Tiger would be the obvious choice. Or does Tiger want to do it? So I don't know. So those would probably be my two suggestions, but it's a fine line, right? It's what makes the players play better? What are they going to resonate with? Obviously, everyone respects Tiger immensely. He could be great, but maybe Kegan would be really, really good as well. So based on what they said, again, I don't know because I wasn't in the team, the US team, but I like Kagan. I respect.

expect him. I think he tried to do the right thing by not playing himself. I think that's a great leadership quality. So again, and he's probably learned a lot from the struggles in New York, which he could take into Adair and maybe put the US on a run themselves and he could go win another two Riding Cups, home away and home. So it's just a hard thing. We're talking fine margins, but you've got to set the players up for success. You've got to have a great support team around you and you've got to have the best information to be able to make the best decisions at the time. And unfortunately, it's really challenging to make decisions and you've got to live and die by them. And sometimes you look really smart and sometimes you look a little less smart.

Absolutely. Before we let you get out here, you just announced the band is back together. You and Max Homa teaming back up again after a very successful couple of years. Took a little break. Now back together. What was that conversation like? Obviously, that's personal stuff, but what was it like getting the call for Max saying, hey, will you take me back? And what's it been like so far since y'all started working together again? Yeah, obviously Max and I had a lot of success. And I leave every relationship with players, you know, even if a player decides that they don't like the way things are going, I try and always leave a door open.

And I think it's, you know, I've been doing it long enough. I try and always take the high road, even if that's self-sabotaging myself at times. And I think with Max, I always left the door to be, look, I don't really understand why you want to leave, but hey, I respect it. Sometimes you need a different perspective. I wish you the best of luck. The door's always open if you ever want to come back. And so I kind of put that off. And honestly, I was stunned when he asked me kind of post-Japan if he could have a conversation with me.

And then basically, would I be, you know, willing to potentially help him again? and I have a soft spot for Maxwell. So here we are, 2.0, let's go. Love it. So, yeah, no, he's been to Birmingham last week. We had a good session. I mean, when you've had success with players, right? We talk about this a lot in the book.

Once sometimes you go away, you realize that some of the things that might have annoyed you when I made the comment about my jobs not to be your friend, my job's to push you, there's a difference between teaching and coaching. And I know I can be hard on players, but it's because I want the best. for them. And as you know, the methods, much like Nick Saving, people might not like it at the time,

but when there's an absence from it, they realize that there's a method to the madness and it's actually pretty good. And I think in Max's case, maybe the break was good because it was a realization that, hey, look, everything I do is to protect my players and to try and help them. And there's always a process to it. And remember, getting better isn't always, you know, a fun idea and a fun project. Sometimes there's some nasty stuff you've got work through. And at the time, I wanted to have some intervention with him, but in 24, he wanted to make the President's Cup team and finishing the top 50. As soon as you open Pandora's box, sometimes it's problematic. And so that was why I decided that I would just try and tread water until we got to the offseason. Yours truly

didn't make it past Memphis. Max did his own thing and did a great job changing some things that I would have addressed with John Scott Ratan, Jason Glass, so full credit to them. And now he's come back and likes kind of where we're heading. And I'm very optimistic that 26 will be really good. He's a good player. And I think sometimes a breakaway is healthy and it's good. So yeah, excited to be helping him again. All my guys, I would say, were very encouraging. I have to give them a lot of credit. They, you know, highly suggested I help him again. So he owes a big thank you to all. of them as well. So yeah, great to have him back in the stable, along with Rasmus Hoygard, who I'm helping as well now. So I'm excited for, uh, for 2026. I'm hoping that this week in Sea

Island I can get Adam Hadwin and Trey Mullinax to finish one, two, and then we'll be all set ready for 26. Yeah, you got a hell of a stable over there. But more importantly, you need to focus on the 2028 masters or 2028 midam, I should say, which would lead to the 2029. If they give you this amateur status back, we can start that project. But that seems to be a highly contentious discussion anyway from the things I'm hearing. So you're putting some, you know, causing some waves out there. Because you've made all that money as a professional and, you know, over a million dollars, I think it is. Oh, yeah, I just killed it out there.

That's why I have three jobs right now. You're going to have to really dig in your bag for this with Mark. You've got a couple years to come up with the blueprint, though. Mark knows I ain't scared to work, though. Right. No, I give Colt, listen, I give Colt full credit. I actually thoroughly enjoyed my work with him and he did work really hard. And Chess had told him, well, you better listen.

And I give Colt every credit. He was a lot of fun to work with. We just ran out of golf tournaments, unfortunately. Yeah, that's okay, though. Things worked out for the both of us. Hard worker, not a lot of talent. Yeah, you just stopped. If you had that, you'd be fucking great.

All right, but seriously, very happy for you, the book, the coaching code. Go check it out. Blackburngolf.com or Amazon. on nice little Christmas present for everyone out there. Go pick it up and learn a little something. Appreciate your boys, support. As always, always like being on. Hopefully you guys have a great holiday season.

And thank you very much. I appreciate all the support. Same to you. Thank you, coach. We'll see you out here in Scottsdale for a little boot camp. See you soon. You'll take care. Bye, bye.

All right, that was our man, Mark Blackburn, the number one teacher in the world joining us on subpar. Make sure you go check out that book. It's the holiday season. makes a great gift. You can pick it up at Amazon or at blackburngolf.com. It's great.

Helps all skill levels. But just love Mark, man. He's helped me so much in my life, even now that I'm not playing. Still pick his brain about the golf swing. But in my opinion, one of the most knowledgeable coaches there is. And obviously, his guys have a lot of success.

Track record speaks for himself. Look at some of the guys he's gotten his stable. Good to see him and Max back together. That just feels right. What we didn't ask him about, and I'm regretting it now, is like, does he feel like his reputations on the line with Greg McElroy, the other McElroy in golf and getting him to a scratch.

That could be the true test if you're the number one coach of the world. I hope you don't. Because I enjoy his money in my pocket. Honestly, it sounded like he didn't quite, I don't think McElroy even thinks he can get there. So if Blackburn can do that, then tip of the cap. But, yeah, good book, a lot of good information in that thing. We're big readers on subpar. Huge.

This has changed my whole life of read more books. That's like my third. All right, well, go to Amazon or blackburngolf.com and make sure you pick up the coaching code. Slees, happy Thanksgiving, my man, and happy Thanksgiving to all of y'all out there. Hope you have a great week with the family. Lots of football, lots of cocktails, lots of food. What a week. America.

And watch the Skins game, 9 a.m. Eastern, Amazon Prime, and we'll talk to you on next week's subpar.