Subpar - Matt Thurmond breaks down the greatest players he's ever coached, how NIL has impacted Arizona State

Episode Date: March 12, 2024

On this week's episode of GOLF's Subpar, Arizona State men's golf coach Matt Thurmond joins Colt Knost and Drew Stoltz for an exclusive interview from the Thunderbird Golf Complex in Phoenix, AZ. A veteran of 17 NCAA Tournaments, he reflects on if NIL has changed recruiting at ASU, what legendary players like Jon Rahm and Phil Mickelson mean to the program and if his current team has what it takes to bring home a National Championship. -- Subscribe Now: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCt5ESUx6omMUsMoEKvMTzlA Shop The Birdie Juice Collection: https://fairwayjockey.com/collections/birdie-juice Follow Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/golf_subpar/?hl=en Follow Twitter: https://twitter.com/golf_subpar?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

All right, here we go. Welcome back to Golf Subpar, Colt Nose Drew Stultz. Obviously, if you're watching on YouTube, you can see I'm not there with the sleeves. The chair is empty, but I'm out at the beautiful Shadow Creek Golf Club, playing a little pro-am sleighs.

And I'm telling you what, we had a time today. Hard to believe. Hard to believe at Shadow Creek. You can find a way to have a good time. Give me the breakdown. Give me the format, scores, all the shit going down from Shadow Creek. Let's hear it.

Okay, so I'm playing the, It's called the Oxford Pro Am. It's three days, Shadow Creek. It's too many days. I got invited by a gentleman named Jeremy Kruger over Instagram. Never met the man in my life. He goes, hey, Colt, love you to come play, Shadow Creek. I know you love the place.

We don't really care what you shoot. I don't really care if you sleep. I just want you to have a good time. And I'm like, you know what? That sounds kind of fun. I'll do it. And my man Monty Montgomery said they're a rather fun time. So here we are.

I met them yesterday. We teed it up today. and I was 400 through 5, please. I don't know what happened. I think their expectations of me changed rather quickly, and then I proceeded not to make a birdie the last 13 holes. Set the bar a little too high. Rookie move.

Rookie move. Good start, though. Good start, though, by the way. Four through five. I wouldn't worry. Yeah, he made four tweets. He made four tweets, dude. It doesn't matter where they come from.

This is glorious, by the way. The blind date, the blind date pro M, just slide in the DMs, fired out. Let that be a lesson to everyone. If you want to play in any sort of a tournament, pro-a-m, member gas, all this shit, just fire cold to DM. Bam, first thing smoking is there. Well, I'm not going to like Indiana or anything. You invite me to Shadow Creek. Invite me.

I'm available. Yeah, that's true. It's a little bit easier. But don't let that deter you if you're out there and you got anything. Even if you're in the Northeast or anything like that, just send it over. And bam, you got a partner. But how many, how's the Ronda Rita intake? God, I'm envious.

I'm not there. In the locker room right now. I have not had one Rondretta yet, but we just finished. So that's about to start. You can't, the Rondarita's during golf is rather difficult. They're aggressive. Truth be told, it's a one and done scenario for the Rondarita. If you go to two, you're teetering in dangerous, dangerous waters.

But I trust you all have a good time. Three days up there, that's a shitload. If I don't ever talk to you ever again, it's been a hell of a run. But enjoy yourself up there. Did you get to watch the beat down at Bay Hill, as they're calling it? We got the question, or we got the answer to the question, what happens if Scotty putts good? It's been a while since we've seen it, and now we got the answer.

Nobody touches him is the answer. I mean, we were texting on Sunday. Like, it's just so ridiculous how good this guy is. I mean, just laps the field. On our serious XM show, I took Scotty this week. I just like, look, this is a very difficult golf course. course, ball striking is very important. Nobody on the planet hits it anywhere close to this guy. Give me Scottie Sheffler. And he went out and, I mean, he was the favorite and he showed why.

He's won there before. He's won there again. And it was a route. I mean, even when he plugs in a bunker, he gets the damn thing up and down. It's just, he is so much better than everyone else right now. If this, it's one week. Yep. But if the putting continues like that, the rest of the golf world has a big problem ahead of him. how you know a guy is like head and shoulders above the rest is when he's a contemporary. Like Scottie Schaeffler is right now and you got guys that are right behind him in the World Golf rankings like a Roy McRoy, Wyndham Clark said the same thing. I think Wyndham's quote was like if he puts like this, if he's positive strokes

gained putting going forward like it's borderline unfair. And this dude, this is a current player. This ain't like Tiger back in 2000 they're talking about. It's a current dude and Roy was basically saying that same thing. Who is this individual creeping up on the screen right now? This is the guy right here. This is the blind date right here? I'm Jeremy.

I got a slide shirt. Anyway, you got a two next year. You got a one legion. Get your face in it, the least. You don't, I got to stay the man. Is that Andy Reed?

Are you playing with Andy Reed? Holy shit. Congrats on the Super Bowl, Doc. You have fought with Georgie 2 and a couple of my good buddies from one at that. You're not, like, it doesn't matter how much golf.

You're going to have an awesome time next year. Yeah, you can tell he's drank a lot of water today. Buck it. Buck it. We're going to start this out. Day one, we're coming in. Mildly hot. Mildly hot.

I stayed mild to medium. Just half a halifino, no seats. Halapino. He's Canadian and shit. Alapino. That's my guy right there. No, we had it all in time. We're a bunch of ham and eggs from Winnipeg, but we're nice guys.

God bless you. God bless you. I can tell it from the jump. Thank you for making a little celebrity guest here. That's it. That's beautiful. That's all I needed you to do. I thought you had a, I thought you'd been dupe.

I thought you had a twin, a clone. And the bottom half of his face showed up. I was like, what, there's two Colts? No, he's, no, he's, he's way older, way, not as good as looking as me, but whatever. He looks like Andy Reid. He looks like a spot-on image of Andy Reed, by the way. Jeremy, he just said you look like Andy Reid. That's beautiful.

That's a good comparison, actually. Yeah. But yeah, so back to Scott. Back to golf. Unbelievable. Good cameo, though. I mean, the. guy is just, if he continues to put, average, it shows like what he, what he has done.

It's special. There's a reason he's the number one player in the world, whether you like the world golf rankings or you hate him, there's no doubt who the best player in the world is right now. Yeah, yeah, that's not debatable. I went back, and this is courtesy of our guy, Justin Ray, who, without him, we wouldn't know any stats in the world. Shout out Justin Ray. The fourth time, Colt, since 2022, that Scottie's gained four shots or more on the field,

putting, uh, results in those four, four wins. So it's like legitimately, it sounds stupid to say and you say it like, oh, if this guy puts good,

he'll never lose. Well, like legitimately, that's kind of the case with Scotty. And I don't know if this will continue, but he doesn't have to put it like that. He just has to be average. And I thought the most impressive thing,

Cole in his round last, uh, on Sunday, A, did it with the lead. B, he hit every single type of shot. What,

having shot tracer for Scotty is the best thing that ever happened. Because you can see the low stingers. You see the high draws, high faith. Like, Like any shot, he takes it on and he hits the appropriate shot. But when he does once in a blue moon miss a shot, his short game is disgusting. Like the plugged bunker shot where the one hot boom plugs.

I was like, oh, this could be a bogey. Maybe things flip. Windham had a good look for birdie on the next hole right after that. Nope. Hits it dead. Chips it dead almost every time. And when he didn't on Sunday, he made the like eight footer that he needed the one time he needed it basically.

I mean, it's just there's no weakness. And I don't want to just bang the drum over one week. But like, we've been talking about it for a long. time with what he's done Tita Green. It's so special. And now you see like, here's what happens when it all comes together. And I don't know that he can be beat by anybody in the game if he plays the way he just did a bail. It's pretty shocking. He hasn't won in 51 weeks since last year's players. But we all knew it was coming. I mean, you can't keep doing what Scottie does. Put yourself a position week after week after week and not get it done. You go to a golf course where you actually do

have to hit it really good. You have to hit fairways. You have to hit greens. You can't just slap it around and it's not a putting contest. You can't beat him. And he won by five. It's so impressive, man. I just, I love the kid. He's so good for the game of golf as well. But he just, once again,

proved why he is the best player in the world. It's not even close. Yeah, and we talked about his ball striking all last. Like, how long can you keep this going? I mean, it's basically only Tiger Woods has ever been better T to Green. Can you sustain this for a while? And like, he hasn't taken a step back at all. So if this new mallet is the answer and this is going to be the new norm,

or even if it's just close to the new norm problems. Because just like you said, the harder the golf course, the more it emphasizes ball striking Tide Green, the bigger the advantage Scottie has. And that's virtually all the major championships. So I don't want to anoint him as a grand slam this year, but he's going to be fucking hard to beat. I mean, can we just go ahead and engrave his name on the U.S. Open trophy?

I don't know what year is going to go next to it, but eventually he's going to win whenever it's the hardest. Or just all of them. Like the British, I mean, he can hit it in Ney, high if he needs to. It's just all really, really good right now. Appreciate Scotty Schaeffler for the moment because I don't know how long. It could last for forever. It could last another week. I don't know, but it's really damn good right now. I just thought, I mean, he just set the tone right out of the gate Sunday, just sent it right over the corner on a tough, difficult driving hole,

hit it to 12 feet bird right out of the gate. I'm like, well, this is pretty much done. And by the way, you owe me 100. I do. I took Wyndham Clark. I was a little inebriated at the time. I feel like That was a bit of a flyer that the sleeves took, but I was feeling good about myself, feeling good about Dub, took a two to one on that with a deficit going in the last round. Ill-advised, ill-advised. But, yeah, that's coming right to you, dude.

I'll get you that right when you get back, no problem. You win some, you lose some. And speaking of winning some, me and my man Chris Damon did win the member member at Whiproft. I was wondering how long it would take to get to that. I was going to let it linger. I was going to let it linger. But no, we'll give you the props you deserve.

Congratulations. Member, member, forever immortalized at the Rock. Congratulations. It's good to have you aboard. How's it feel, dude? I didn't want to bring it up because I don't want to donate

to the self-suck jar. It's overflowing. I have to interview you every year after you finished second at the four ball. And me and my man get a win and you're not even going to bring it up. I was going to bring it up,

but I wanted to see if we got through the first segment before the interview. I was 100% going to bring it up. But I wanted to let you bring it up. Congratulations to you. You did it coming out of the top flight. A lot of dogs up there.

Your boy, demon, by the way, stepped up in the shootout, hit it in there fairly tight. I don't know how close it was, but pretty damn good. Good enough for you guys to advance. And, yeah, we had a lot of people.

I didn't know who I wanted to come out of that flight, honestly. It was like a win-win or a lose-lose. I was like, there's nobody out of all these teams that I want to win this. But I'll be happy that five of them lose. Yep.

I'm with you. I didn't think we had a chance, to be fair. My man had a 12-footer for Parnet Bertie on our last hole against the doctor and Bryce Mulder, and I had no idea what it was for. We finished. Our man Patrick Stolpey, Sunshine, he goes, that just won y'all the flight.

I go, are you kidding me? He goes, no. He goes, y'all just won. Y'all are in the shootout. I was shocked. Demon steps up. It's 10, 12 feet on the first hole of the shootout. I make it.

Three of us advance. Go back to 83 yards. I have to hit it. I hit it in there, Stony, baloney. And my man made it, and we win. It was, I'm so happy for Chris. Obviously, you know, don't want to self. And for myself.

Yeah, mostly happy for me. I want a lot in my day. He needed one. I wanted him to feel what it felt like to be a champion. By the way, he said zero words after the weekend. He stayed on brand. He didn't get all happy and tell everyone about it. We were trying to get a speech out of him.

He won't even, I mean, just zero words, never seen a soft or spoken individual than Chris Stephen. That's why you guys mesh well. Between the two of you, there's the appropriate amount of words being said in every, every match. You know, I don't like to agree with you, but I will right now. It was great. He was very humble in victory, but we're going to be,

I think we're working on getting Dylan Wu off the cover of the magazine this year for club champion and putting me and Demon on there. Yeah, yeah, that Dylan Wu lost still stinging me to this day. But if things hold true, he will be the cover boy next year. But well-deserved win. I'm proud of you. That was all of a job. way to hold down the fourth dog. Congrats on the painting. I appreciate it. That's actually like my

real first paint up at Whisper Rock, which is, which is cool because I know you got a lot of those paintings. This is my first. Yeah, put it up. Put it up. Show that thing proudly, dude. They're, they're hard to come by. It's hard to come by. All right. Well, let's get to our interview this week because this is a special one, man. Like, I'm a, I love college golf. The game has changed so much with NIL, the facilities these people have, and we go take an in-depth look at Arizona State and their facility down at Papago. This place is unbelievable.

I'm so jealous. Like, as a college kid, to have a facility like that, you show up, they bring you lunch every day at noon. You got the best facility in the world. It's just, it's heaven. And we get to, you got to watch on YouTube so you can see an in-depth look at it. But we also sit down with Coach Matt Thurman, who is one of the best coaches in the coach.

He's got a hell of a squad down there. And it was a lot of fun, Sleys. Yeah, without question. You got to watch the YouTube to do this thing justice. Look at the facilities. Look at where the kids get to play, practice all day. But it's a different animal than when you and I were in college, that's for sure. And we'll recap this at the end.

But definitely check out that YouTube and see what you're missing if you're not in college right now and a world-class player. I mean, if you take a recruiting trip to Arizona State and you don't go, I don't know what you're doing. Yeah. So if you're young kid that's really good at golf, I highly, recommend going to Arizona State. They got great facilities. Nice scenery, if you know what I'm talking about. But let's get to it. Here's Coach Thurman on Golf Sub Bar. All right, we are now joined by one of the best golf coaches in all of college golf. He's coached countless All-Americans, been National Coach of the Year, Ben Hogan Award winners, not to mention as a player, 1994, Western

Athletic Conference freshman of the year. Coach Matt Thurman, how are you, buddy? Everyone always says one of the best. And I don't, at some point, hopefully I'll do something that, that Somebody somewhere will say the best. Hands down unequivocally the greatest. You know, we'll see. By the way, you have two whack freshman of the year sit right here. You thought I forgot about you as a player. That 94 whack freshman year people still talking about.

It was coming down to the wire and I made a put on the last and got the award. Who did you nudge out for freshman of the year? You know who I nudged out. Will Collins. Oh, yeah. Still going, I believe. Yeah, maybe Ryan Murphy, Texas women's coach. Oh, okay.

Yeah. Yeah. But I honestly. I don't even know if that's true. No chance. Just make up name. Tiger Woods. Ever heard of him?

Hibberto Morales? Give us a little breakdown. If you were being an analyst right now about you as a player, what was your game like? Johnny Miller once called me the Lauren Roberts of College Golf. I need everything. Okay. But I couldn't keep it on the planet. Really?

With great passion and energy and just love the game. great chipper and putter, highly emotional. When you say passion and energy, I was going to say, did that mean you have a temper? I can control myself well. Now, on a basketball court or a pickleball court, I don't control myself. But for some reason in golf, I never made a fool of myself. But in high school basketball, like people would come up to my mom like,

wow, Matt, really, I was surprised by his behavior out there, a lot of technical fouls. But I was always chill in golf, but I loved it. I mean, I could never sleep before around. But short game was kind of my thing. shot making didn't have a range growing up didn't really get into the technical side so i i like the adventure yeah did you give it a stint no playing professionally no well i played two state opens how we do i'm uh i've made money in my pro career which is better than most people say i

not a lot of people say that 400 and 450 i think expenses were down utah and nevada open made the cut in both profitable as a professional that was a profitable professional One of the very few professional golfers that has 100% cut made. Exactly. I mean, that's, yeah, don't ever play another one. I'm not. Yeah, that's pretty damn good. Growing up, I mean, obviously, I'm guessing, aspired to be a professional golfer,

but what got you into coaching? Was that something that was always on your mind? Every kid wants to be a professional golfer. And I think most of us kind of at some point realize, hey, maybe I'm not as good as I hoped. And that was probably me, maybe junior, senior year in college. And I'm kind of, I still hadn't figured it out yet, but I'm trying to raise money to get into Canadian Tour Q school

and putting together these plans and find investors. And, you know, I should have known when nobody was jumping in to put a bunch of money that maybe it wasn't the right thing. And then coach comes along and says, hey, I think you'd be good at coaching. Why don't you be my assistant coach next year? And I was dating my wife, Catherine, at the time, who I hadn't sealed the deal yet.

And so I'm like, okay, sounds good. She had one more year of college. And so I stayed after, and I just fell in love with it right away. Yeah, I found myself bored, practicing by myself but loving working with the guys and we got married the next year congrats sealed the deal and uh went to after that one year of coaching to b yu went to washington for a year odie vincent and mary lu mulfur hired me to be the assistant there and then i was there for 15 years as a head coach before coming here at age 26 by the way i was going to say that happened

fast yeah i was young to be coaching kids up and being a charge of them a lot of times when there's a coach change it's because there's problems and it wasn't the case at washington odie he had built an awesome program. It was on the rise, had good recruits coming in, good returning players. We had had a nice season when I was the assistant. And so he decided to move on. And they shouldn't have probably hired me,

but things were going well. And I knew how it was working. So they said, OK, why not? And that's awesome. You had a really good career at Washington. James Lepp won the NCAA individual title at Caves Valley. I was actually there playing for SMU. I remember that.

Shot 63 in some horrible weather. Yeah. Lepro was special. Take us through some of the guys you coached at Washington know that we now see on the PGA tour and professional golf. You know, first was Brock McKenzie. He was kind of the first superstar I coached. Although I coached Troy Kelly as, you know, assistant for him.

Yeah. But Brock McKenzie superstar, first team All-American Walker Cup guy. I mean, I would have, he was awesome. And then James Lep came in. Alex Pruh was actually in there while James Lek was there. Alex doesn't get mentioned a lot. He had some good years on the PGA tour as well. James Lepp won the NCAA championship, and then in the 2026 class, 20-06 class, we had

Darren Wallace, who was a Canadian Amateur Champion, and then Nick Taylor and Joel Damon. So those guys had a great run. Richard Lee came in, who also spent years on the tour. We had C.T. Pan come after them. Carl U.N., even some others like Trevor Simsby. I know I'm missing somebody. So this is the problem with making these lists is I'm missing somebody.

When you got so many good players, it's hard to list them off. Yeah, good problem to have. That's pretty impressive up in Washington, which isn't the most ideal golf climate compared to what we got sitting right here. Chris Williams. Chris Williams, very good golf.

World beater, world beater Chris Williams. So Chris and Nick Taylor both won the Ben Hogan Award and the McCormick Award. So they were number one in the world, and then C.T. Pan was number one in the world. He didn't win the award because Maverick, McNeely, and John Rom were there too. But, yeah, that's a good run.

You mentioned Joel Damon. who is a fan favorite. Give us a little insight to what Joel was like in college. So this is, you know, everyone likes to talk about the funny side of Joel, and it is funny, but you have to understand his mom, he and his mom were like this. And she passed away when he was 17 years old. And he was just in a really hard time in life. He took that very, very hard and still does, I think.

But it was not a great time for Joel. And he was a great teammate. People, you know, make it sound like he was this problem. He was never a problem. He just couldn't. had much motivation at the time. He was a pleasant guy to be on the team with, guys like living with him, traveling with him. He played hard when he played, but he just wasn't there mentally and didn't want to do the schoolwork. Yep. Come on, Joel. And you've had, like you said,

Hogan Award winners, first team All-Americans, guys like that, and some have panned out and gone on the PJ Tour at big careers. Some have not. Is there a surprise guy that maybe at the time you got him, you weren't like, oh, this is a program-changing guy or this is a future PJ Tour world beater, But then did turn out to have a big run on the PJ Tour. No, I think this is probably my problem as a coach. No, Joel was amazing. I mean, he was an elite, elite recruit. You know, this is what a coach is supposed to do.

This coach is supposed to believe more in them than they believe in themselves. And that's one thing I do. I mean, I see PGA Tour and every kid I recruit. The question's probably the other way around. Like, which one did you see should have been on the PGA tour that didn't make it? That was going to be another question. Yeah. And there are those.

And I say this to the guys, like, people say, oh, have something to fall back on or if you don't make it. Like, people usually decide not to make it, you know. It gets like, Chris Williams is a great example. Chris Williams was as good as any amateur player you're going to ever have and won everything. And the truth is, he just didn't really like the life of a pro golfer. It's not all that great out there. It's pretty lonely. It's a lot of golf.

And you lose a little bit of the childlike play of the game. and that just wasn't it for him. And that happens a lot. Yeah, college golf, it's so different. We're right here at y'all's facility right now, which we have an awesome video coming out, touring this facility, and all your guys, when I showed up today,

we're eating lunch together. Then they went out and practiced together. They're all, they just hang out together. Pro golf, you're your own boss. You travel around, some nights, other guys have dinner plans, and you're all of a sudden all alone. You've got to book your own travel.

It's a much different world. And not everybody succeeds at it. We have, our team, my teams, it's a big part of, I love teams. I mean, I love teams. I get excited just thinking about how a team works and who plays what role and how we communicate and how we, you know, have fun together and make each other better. Like, that's what I do. And I've often actually often thought if I'm too much that way because it's quite a shock when you leave this kind of culture where everyone's always together and helping each other out and cheering for each other and knows what's going on and has a friend to do it with all the time to all on your own.

So we've tried to create an environment here where even our alums come back and they always can feel that same thing. But it is hard. It's a massive transition. You go from being in this really protected, awesome environment. Now everyone hates you and wants to kill you. Exactly. But you've been here. This is your eighth season now at Arizona State.

I mean, I believe math serves me right, 25 years basically as a coach of college golf. Well, the world of college sports has changed a lot recently with NIL. How is it, what's the difference now from when you started to now? with NIL being involved. How much different is it? I think NIL is just a part of it. It's one of a handful of things that has changed it a lot. I think PGA Tour U has changed it a lot. You know, additional professional opportunities. Basically the stakes are higher. Coaches are being paid a lot more. Athletes are being paid more Universities care. They used to never care, you know, like who cares what the golf team does?

Well, you know what? It's actually kind of a big deal now because everyone's going to watch the national championship and take pride in their university, whether they played well, or didn't and give each other crap at the office or on the golf course. So it just matters way more than it ever did. And that means you have to be a little more buttoned up. I don't know. The kids, they all have more people involved, whether it's agents and coaches and parents. Everybody cares more and there's a lot more to manage. Is the recruiting more difficult now? I don't think. I don't think so, actually. In fact, if anything, they've made it easier because the rules, they've kind of cut it down. We used to recruit unlimited amount. Now they only let us recruit a certain

number of days. I mean, recruiting, you've got to know what you do. Like at ASU, one of our problems is pretty much anywhere in the world. It sounds good to go to ASU and it makes sense. Like kids, kids can look at it. Yeah, that's a good fit for me, right? There's not much to not like. Kind of. And especially for golf. Good scenery everywhere around. Yeah, there's some things that are attractive to 18 to 22 year old young men. I felt like at Washington I had a set kind of niche, certain academic role niche, certain geographic profile, guys that wanted you know, that didn't mind a little inclement weather and thought that was cool. Here, it's like it's a great idea for everyone to come to ASU.

So for us, we have to kind of be selective and careful not to try to recruit everybody all the time. I mean, if I'm a young kid on a recruiting trip, you come here and you come to this facility right here. The Thunderbirds, Phil and Amy Mickelson, the trees, everybody involved have put together here. I mean, how do you say no to this place? Well, if they do, it's probably me screwing it up. We'll take care of that for you. When it comes to, like, the top-ranked kids coming on. of junior golf that all the big programs are fighting for with the nil now does it take more than a

scholarship like are do you need to sweeten the pot to get these top studs that are coming out starting to be that way yeah you got to add more yeah that's interesting because you know the real money to be made still is after and personally i mean it's if you can get the money great and if everybody's giving it great but to me it screams a little insecure like if you really are confident that's that you're going to make it as a, make it as a pro, you need to do everything you can in your selection to give yourself the very best opportunity to be successful. And an extra 20,000 here or there, that, and making your choice based on that is dangerous. And I'd say the same about scholarship, you know, like 80% versus 50% if you can afford it, you know, go whatever's going

to give you the best chance to be successful afterward and figure out the money out later. But it is a factor. Like you see these top quarterbacks and it's like it basically becomes a bidding war like oh this school's offering me four million i'm gonna get three over here is is it like that somewhat in golf now it is yeah which is crazy and so then you need a deep war chest you got to have donors and people like that so you can go to battle to get those top kids tell us a different animal go ahead i mean i i'm not like old yet but i'm also not young and you just got to be careful to not fall into the trap of hating it or thinking this is stupid or i don't want to do this isn't how it used to be i mean you have to stay with

the time. So whether I like NIL or not, I have to love it, you know. And so yeah, we got to go raise the money and we got to offer it and we got to make it happen. And that's just the reality. All right, before we get back to our interview, a quick break to tell you that if you haven't done it yet, go check out our YouTube page. It's golf underscore subpar. We've got some new content coming up at the ASU facility. We're going to have some more stuff coming out as the year goes on. So if you haven't yet, go to YouTube, subscribe, golf underscore subpar. And now back to our interview. about your team because you got some studs. I believe you got three in the top 20 of the world

amateur rankings. Preston Summerhays, Winnie Ding, Luke Potter, Riggs. I mean, they're all, you got some, you got some studs on the team. So I feel bad because we're forgetting one guy and he's not getting mentioned enough lately. And that's Josele by Esther. Joselle is the European Am champ, has been a two-time All-American his first two years. He's won a bunch of national championships in Spain. It was a mega recruit for us and he's been a top, he's a top 20 amateur in the world. He is awesome. And he's just kind of, you know, Preston takes up a lot of the attention here because he's local and he's amazing. And now Ding came in and Ding setting records and, you know, the 6-5 Chinese guy that's with a different name that people have heard about but never seen and just broke a record shooting 27 under for 54 holes.

Like, don't forget about Jose LeBayasero. This guy's amazing. You mentioned Riggs and Jose and Luke. other European guy Michael Miaseth is also top 60 player in the world. He was the Pac-12 freshman of the year last year. We've had four straight Pac-12 freshman of the year. Nice. And I like our chances to make it five if Dean can keep it going.

I think you have a pretty good chance. You know, I'm kind of a gambling man. I think he's a slight favorite. Yeah. So that's only six that I mentioned. You know, I don't want to go through everybody, but we have an awesome team. But you travel five, and so you're going to have like a stud sitting at home. Is that sometimes tough on recruiting?

Like these kids, you can go in. anywhere and easily make the top five traveling squad you come here and like you're going to you're going to have to beat a top 70 kid in the country you know and what's it take on a typical qualifier to make the team to try to make the top five yeah our first we had a six round qualifier at start of the spring six different courses tied for fifth was 14 under for fifth five-man spot 14 rounds yeah ding was 29 rigs was 28 and then there was eight 10 strokes to preston at 18 so So that's kind of typical for us. Yesterday we had a qualifying.

So there was four guys exempt, three guys playing for one spot, and they're all really good players. And in typical fashion, it's up and down. And then they finally get to the final 54th hole. It's dark at Greyhawk. And sure enough, there's one guy, if he makes this birdie, and this guy makes his par, and this guy misses his par, they all tie. So the lip out for birdie, the make for par, the lip out for par.

and then we have a two-man tie with one guy, one behind. I'm not giving names. It's dark. Like, okay, I got to get names on a flight. I got a, UNLV's saying, hey, I need your roster. What do we do? Like, guys, you guys, can you see enough to play one more hole? Like, yeah, that's fine.

Let's do it right now. So we go play number 10 at, play 10 at Greyhawk. Talent, actually, they hit both iron shots that look like they took off good, but we can't see them. They get up there, ones like this. One's about 15 feet past, but right on the line, and they don't know who's who. Walk up there, you know, Luke sees his ball like this. Like, yes, yes, you know. And the other guy just misses his button.

It seems like it happens every time. You guys were probably in those types. It's a four-and-five battles were great. They weren't 14-under, though. As I say, it's a good thing for you to have, it's so competitive. Where, I mean, a lot of schools, you're searching for that fifth guy here. You've got six, seven, eight guys that can fit into that lineup at any time. Yeah, it's not always that way, but it has been.

and yeah hopefully those five bring it every tournament too well we wish you the best of luck the rest of the season I want you to bring home that national title but before we let you go we do have to get to the E9 this might be a little modified yeah this is the modified like modified scramble we normally do E9 I got a little thing I like to do with the caddies don't treat me with the kid gloves come on I mean I can take it I mean well I mean just don't you guys see me you think oh this guy's like a religious conservative like no no no man give it to me I'm ready uh who would win in a five out of your whole team if there was this a bare-knuckle brawl I wouldn't want to mess with Jose Le Baistair I mean he's the strongest

most athletic but Gabe Salvinera's got the crazy eyes when he gets a little angry and I'd also be afraid of him and he likes to shoot guns Who's the first guy to go down? Preston Preston you soft there we go see we'll give you some we had this way around the TV We were going through him with nicknames I believe on our show and Ruthless P was one of the Oh yeah Apparently that's out. Rouseless. He's looking like a Calvin Klein model these days, too, man. That kid, he's changing that physique.

We always talk about trying to be a blue-collar team, and everyone's like, how can we be boo-collar with Scottsdale boy over here? Silver League guys. Preston takes a lot of crap. We played football in Hawaii. The first year was like, nobody touches Preston. Nobody touches Preston.

He's going to be really upset if he hears this. This is great. He's got to hear it. By the way, when we walked in today, he was, God bless him, cleaning up the eating area. He had to be prodded a little bit. That might have been scripted.

it a little bit. No, there's some coaching that happens there. Well, he left his stuff out. Yeah. Yeah, you didn't see that part. He didn't see that part. He's used to barbed cleaning up after. Yeah, I just thought Luke leaving his otter pops everywhere. God bless him. All right, that was just off the top just since he said you didn't want the kid gloves. I'm ready. I feel like a brawl question is good. You're a player's coach. I mean, you're super

nice. I'm guessing there's some tough love there. But throughout your career, where would you rank you guys sucking suck as the meanest thing you've ever said to a team? That's harsh, coach. That's harsh, bud You guys sucky suck That's the thing When you don't cuss a lot

When you do That's like I don't get that angry But when you do And Mason Ander would soon would say You do not want to see the wrath of thirms That's what's called the wrath of thirms It comes out maybe twice a year And you do not want to be on the other side of that

Is that where the name The name I'm sure you're aware of it Thernedado Is that the tornado? I mean have you heard that before Maybe I just made that up right now Maybe I came up with that I don't mind, you know, like, I am a nice coach, and we have a lot of fun,

but any coach needs to have a little bit of fear factor that, you know, you, they need to know that you could lose it at any second. Yeah, yeah. You guys suck and suck. That'll take care of that. I remember that name. Do you remember Zach Bixler? So we were one year, we're in Missouri, and he's like, you know what, coach, I think what the team

really needs is like, you just need to go off on us sometime, like, really like, let us have it. Like, get pissed. I'm like, okay, I can do that. if that's what you want. He was kind of our captain. And so we have a bad day. And we're in the van afterward. And I go off, right?

And he lost his crap. He starts yelling at me. And we are yelling at the top of our lungs at each other. And he wasn't joking around. And Garrett Clegg will still see. He's the Utah coach. He would say, that was the most awkward van ride in the history of my life. And nobody said anything for hours.

I'm like, Biggs, dude, what happened? Like, you told me I should do this. So I do it. And you just, you know, And he goes, yeah, I don't know, man. I'm sorry, I just lost it. Got caught him in the moment, guys. Sorry.

So I do have a little bit of it in me. What's the most severe disciplinary punishment you've ever doled out to a player? Man, I think there's a stair that comes from me that you don't want that's worse than any stadium stairs you can run. I give you a lot of space, but when you break the trust, you missed tournaments or you get cut from the team. So I'm not a stadium guy. I mean, I don't know. I don't, I don't do that. Yeah, you don't have like the death workouts. Like we used to have one basically you didn't, it didn't until you threw up. And it just ended with these barrel rolls that make you throw up no matter what. I don't see. All that's going to do is make them more angry. Yeah, it made me,

yeah. I like, you know, you think about your mom. Like, what's the worst thing? Like, your dad might, you know, spank you or ground you or do this, but, you know, so what, right? your mom when she says, son, I'm so disappointed in you. Disappointed is a tough one. Is there anything worse of a punishment than your mother being disappointed in you? I try to I try to appeal to that emotional level.

Disappointment's tough word. I really can't believe that we're having to have this conversation. Yeah, I've had that a few times. It's not good. Still haven't gotten over. Many of times. It hurts, right? Yeah, it does. It cuts deep. All right, my next one. Everyone that knows you talks about how highly competitive you are. Really?

And you're not the greatest loser, which if you talk to Charles Barkley, Charles Barkley says, you show me someone that's a good loser, I'll show you a loser. So I'm okay with this. Charles is smart. I don't know where he's going with this. What would you say is the worst temper tantrum you've ever seen thrown at Washington National? Well, Richard Lee had one of, we were doing this par five drill, and he threw his three wood into the lake.

And Richard Lee's a saint. So I'm not even talking about my temper tantrum. I'll get to that. Richard Lee, we were doing this part five, and he finally broke, and he throws it in the middle of this big lake, and it's cold. This is like February in Washington. And it's like he extended, and as it left, he started walking toward the lake, and he's taking off his clothes as he's walking towards the lake, and he's down in his underwear, and he just doesn't even break stride. Just walk straight into the lake, swims out, three woods floating in the lake, and comes back. So that was a great one.

That's beautiful. That's my one, whoever's bringing this up is, probably talking about the time when I chunked it in the creek, about 100 yards out on hole 15, and I threw my wedge. Is that what we were talking about? No, but keep going. This is why it's fun.

We got more on the creek. I threw my wedge in the creek, and I'm like, you go in there too. And that's probably what I thought they were talking. The one I was told to ask about was the putting contest with Joe Panzeri. Was it the Stone of Shame? He said you tomahawked your putter into the bushes. Oh, I did? Yeah.

So you've thrown a three wood, you've got guys throwing three woods into waters, your putters in the bushes. You got so many that's not know what you wanted to pick. The tornado. Can I tell you a Joe Pansary story? Yes. Okay. So we're out practicing one day, and these guys would, there's a long drive. They'd stop and get food on the way.

So we had a barbecue out there. And Zach, they all stop and they all could have time to get their stuff, right? So Zach had bought like a quart of chocolate milk. And it's sitting off the side of the green right here. And there's a bunker over here with the green in the middle. Joe is in the bunker. No, I got it wrong. I'm sorry.

Joe Panzeri bought the milk and is in the bunker. Zach is over here walking by. He goes, hey, Joe, can I have some of your chocolate milk? No, you could have bought your own. Okay. Takes the chocolate milk while he's 30 yards away, opens it up, hoars it out, and looks at him. He's like, if I can't have any, you're not having any either.

And Joe lost it. And they started fighting. They end up in the bunker. They're like punching each other, rolling around, bunker and anyway about two minutes in they just start laughing which was what they always do sleaze you don't mess with the man's chocolate milk oh you don't sleeves is a big chocolate milk knuckles come out you start messing with the dude's chocolate milk I don't blame them so I get a little upset there's always like one good fight story with coaches

where players get in fights you know I mean we had Sheffler and Hossler when we talked to John Fields they had a near come to blows I think it's a lost art I mean all these problems we're having kids can't I mean back in the day you just fight it out. And then you're over it. And it's over it. Nobody really hurts each other too bad. Yeah, the golfers. Not UFC fighters. A couple of flaps, but I did. We had one at Mesa Country Club where Alex Delray constantly chipping on Mason Anderson. Alex has a mouth and he just runs it and runs it. And it's fun, but Mason had had enough. And then finally,

I mean, right in front of the clubhouse, Mason runs over, grabs Alex, takes him and just slams him on the ground and they're rolling around and like, this is at practice. Yeah. So I, but that, you know, those guys got along great after that. They were best friends. A little that's healthy too, by the way. It's like brother. I'll probably get in trouble for saying this, but that actually is important.

You may have to go into Mesa Pro Shop and be like, boys. They know. Sorry about the brawl. They've seen worse out there. If you're going to do it anywhere, Mesa's is the spot to do it. They don't normally condone that. They encourage that sort of behavior. I'll give you one.

Let's go current players on this one. Most likely to slide into the D. of a female celebrity shoot a shot. It's for sure, Luke Potter. Yeah, that's what I reckon. He might have a shot, by the way. He's got some charm. Yeah, he's got that vibe, that little SoCal vibe about him.

I'll stay on that same kind of area there. I was going to, because Joel Damon, who, one of your most famous guys you've coached, he's gone to a whole other level. Like, we just played with him at Phoenix Open when I was caddying for Taylor Montgomery. I mean, the people love him. And it's all because of, I mean, he's got a great personality, but Netflix, full swing. has changed his life. Of your guys right now, who do you think

would be the biggest star on Netflix? I think Luke's just a star. He just loves to be, he's really good in front of the camera. You know, we have, we're doing stuff on our Instagram all the time, and a lot of times it takes multiple takes with guys, and they all do pretty well, but Luke, you just turn the camera on and he just syrup comes out of his mouth, and he's always got the right thing to say,

some catchy little thing, and he's, yeah, he's, we have to go find him after this, Coach him really well, so he has a long professional career because we need these jobs. Yeah, don't know. Chase it for a decade or two. Yeah. They didn't have it. There's no rush.

This type of stuff's always just sitting around for you. I'll give you one since we've done kind of like the vanities. Here's a real golf one. Ten footer. National Championship on the line. Make you win, miss, you lose. Which guy in your team do you think wants that put the most? Preston wants that putt.

Watch him do make one out here, actually. He wants that puttuation. Yeah. And he's done that many. many times. We had an awesome, you know, Mason made a couple of puts. Cameron, Sisk, and our match against Oklahoma in the semifinals at the NCAAs a couple years ago, had about a 15-footer on 10 in a playoff. One of the best puts I've ever seen. That was awesome. Yeah, I think Preston wants it. Like wants it. He wants it. Because some people say they want it. Not a lot of people.

He actually want it. That's awesome. Love that. Yeah. All right, my last one. This is going deep here. Okay. Here we go. Slees and I are at both head coaches. Big time national head coaches. I like that. Which one of us gets investigated by the NCAA for violations first? If it ain't me, I'm going to be pissed. I want to win. The thing is, like, there's violations happening all the time out there.

Yeah, but I want to be on ESPN. The question is which one of you is a better coach? Because whoever's ranked higher is the one that people are going to turn in. Like, if you're, if you suck, no one's going to care that you're breaking the rules. All right, so it's me. I would frame his program somehow. If they ever became a threat, I would, I'd, I'd, launch some sort of plant in there and then make an anonymous phone call, bam.

We need guys like you guys coaching, so hopefully you'll think about it. I don't know that the world does. Really don't think. A lot of things are in need us coaching college kids, probably not it. But I appreciate that. And we appreciate you. You're wrong, by the way. For your time, dude.

You got a lot going on. This is a special look inside y'all's facility. And for everyone out there that's listening, please go check out the YouTube video because we do an awesome tour of the facility here at Arizona State. It's fantastic. Really cool stuff. much for letting us come in and crash your day. Thanks a lot for coming, guys.

We got eligibility now that NIL's back. There is nobody more entertaining to play golf with than you two. So thanks a lot, guys. You got it. Appreciate it. Thank you, coach. All right, that was Coach Matt Thurman, joining us on golf subpar. Man, that was so much fun going down there, hanging out with those guys,

Sleeves, getting to see the team interact. By the way, how about our man, Winnie Ding, 27 under three rounds, three. Yeah, what is he, 18? 18 years old. If you got a chance to go out and watch Winnie Ding play, do it now. Otherwise, you're going to have to, that's the only time you're going to get to see him for free

because that's coming soon. And he's not the only guy you could say that about on Arizona State. They got some dudes on that thing. That's a testament to Matt Thurman program he's built. He did it in Washington first, which is a harder place to do it from, harder place to recruit from,

than the same thing at Arizona State. But dude, it got me wanting to go back to school and be a doctor or lawyer or some shit because unless you come out and you start playing on, like, Cup teams, you're not going to get treated better than what those kids have it right now at ASU. I was actually talking with one of them, won't name any names. He's like, a lot of these kids turn pro early.

I was like, I don't want to leave. This is the greatest place of all time. I'm like, yeah, it really, it legitimately is. Yeah, Scottsdale, beautiful privacy. I mean, what could go better? Best tournaments in the country. I mean, facilities are disgusting. Like, it's all, it's nice.

It's all handled for you. Don't have to pay for anything. Pretty good. But a huge shout out to Papago, the Trias family, Mickelson family for everything they've done for that program. It's really cool to see. That was a lot of fun, man. I really enjoyed going down there, seeing that practice facility.

Got really jealous, but, you know, they can't build places like that without families like the Trias and the Mickelson's. Really cool to see. But enjoy sitting down with Coach Matt Thurman. He's got a squad man. If they don't win the national championship soon, I'd be shocked. Yeah, they got, I mean, they're loaded with talent. They're not the only seen.

in the country, but just shout out to him for letting us come down there, get a look inside, you know, what those guys do on a daily basis, their facilities, their locker room, all the stuff. They got some really big name players. And it's a great, that program just in general, man, you look at the alumni that are all on the wall, the guys that have gone on to win major championships, rider cups and things like that. And like, they all stay connected to that program. And I think that's a testament to not only Matt Thurman, the people that were there were there before them as well. They're all proud sun Devils, man. Hell of a program of your young kids. and you got the options.

I agree with you. We should be getting some of this NIL money, I feel like, for- without question. Without question. We'll dabble. We'll take a little pace. All right. Well, let's get to the players championship.

Massive $25 million purse. Are you kidding me? This is unbelievable. I have nothing to say about this term anymore since your boy, Tom Hogi. Just ruined your guts out. Breaking my court's record. He's a killer, dude. That's a frog.

Another killer. Another great program. two soft easy pins whatever it doesn't matter let's get onto it though but how do you not take I know the odds suck that's the only reason how

that's the only reason how is because he's five and a half to one but I know what you're about to say yeah I mean it's a golf course that is perfect for him he's the defending champion he just came off of dominating win how do you not take him again it has a tee box and it has a green

with a hole in it and Scottie's playing So chances are he's the best guy there. But yeah, I mean, he's going off a five and a half to one. I mean, legitimately, those are like tiger, prime tiger odds. But, I mean, point to a guy that's going to beat him if he looks half of what he looked like at Bay Hill. So I don't blame you, a five and a half to one, not a lot of juice on that. But I like it. I'm going to give you one with a little more, a little more juice if you're looking for a bigger return.

This is a little ways down for our favorites, but I just like what I see right now. He's going off at 30 to 1, Colt. He's got a T-13, T2, T4, and his last three starts. ball striking seems to be back where he was pre-injury when he was one of the best in the world. Putter looks miles better. You know what I'm talking about. Will Zalotaur is 30 to 1. Okay.

Yeah, he's playing awesome. I mean, it seems like the bigger the stage, the better he plays. Played great at the Genesis. Played great at Bay Hill. Your man, Wyndham Clark, by the way, loves these signature events. I don't know if you know that. He is just printing money in these things. It's disgusting.

As far as my dark horse goes, this guy says it's his favorite course on tour, which kind of surprised me because he hits bombs. But he's got a lot of swag. He's going to win soon. He's one of the fan favorites. He's one of your favorites. 60 to 1, men will lead. Preach it.

I don't need to say anything. I don't need to say anything. He's my new favorite player. You like that one? He's my new favorite player on tour that I don't call my son, you know, that we're not related blood-wise, although we might be. I think if we did a little 23 in me, I love the kid. I am surprised, too, that he said that's his favorite golf course.

Like, he sends it. It's like, you don't really get to do it around there. But I don't care. I love the kid. I hope he wins soon. He's going to be a mega star. All right. On a similar vein, 50 to 1 from the same country of origin here.

We got a sixth place at Pebble. Play pretty damn nice. Ninth at the Genesis. Favorite guy to watch Ship and Putt on the PJ Tour. Give me Jason Dave. They're like we're kind of due, you know? I mean, he's a past champion. Yeah.

He ruined my dreams. The one year actually was playing well there. But yeah, he loves the golf course. don't hate it at all. It's going to be a hell of a week. It's, I mean, massive back-to-back weeks between API Players' Championship. We're getting very, very close to the Masters' first major of the year. I can't wait. But before that, we have two more days of the biggest major championship in the world, the Oxford Pro-Am out here at Shadow Creek. Got two more days left, which means also two more nights in Vegas. I'm terrified, but I'm going to battle through it.

If I don't see again, I'm going to split all your shit with Natalie. I'm going to take the good stuff. I'll give her the rest, but just to let you know, I'm taking all the stuff, though, of value. Anything of value is mine, but give them hell up there. Don't solely the brand, live up to the hype, and go compete, bud. Go compete your ass off, you know? I'm going to do it, my man. I appreciate it. Really enjoyed this week a lot. Shadow Talks for Pro-A and once again for this great week. Shadow Creek, nothing better, even though Monty's here, Taylor had a caddy for the guy. I mean, God damn, how life has changed. Cattying for Taylor Montgomery. to now being here at Shadow Creek.

Life comes out you fast, please. Super quick. One too long ago, you might have had Kurt Kittiyama loop for you out there. Now things change, Mok's, you know what I mean? We're stuck and they keep moving on. There's nothing better than this place right here. I'm going to enjoy every minute of it,

and I hope you all enjoyed this episode a lot. Make sure you go check out our YouTube page, golf subpart. Make sure watch the video behind the scenes look at the Arizona State facility. It is incredible. And we're going to talk to you on next week's subpar. Thank you.