Subpar - Sean Foley and David Woods talk managing different Tour players’ personalities, collaborating on the ProSENDR

Episode Date: August 8, 2023

On this week's episode of GOLF's Subpar, Sean Foley and David Woods join former PGA Tour pro Colt Knost and jicky jack legend Drew Stoltz for an exclusive interview. The co-creators of the ProSENDR talk the training aid's impact on the game's top talent and the keys to managing different personalities while working with Tour players.   -- Thanks to Ralph Lauren, the Official Outfitter of the United States Ryder Cup team and of GOLF's Subpar.  The RLX Golf collection is available in select Ralph Lauren stores, exclusive private clubs, and resorts, and online at RalphLauren.com. https://www.ralphlauren.com/brands-golf?&utm_source=OtherPartners&utm_medium=GolfSubparPodcastRLSponsorship_GolfSubpar_PodcastPlacement_2023_GolfSubparPodcastRLSponsorship -- Thanks as always to our official sponsor FanDuel.   If you’ve been thinking about joining FanDuel, there’s no better time to get in on the action. The app is so easy to use. They’re always giving you great odds. And when you win, you can get paid INSTANTLY! So step up to the tee and take a swing at betting the PGA TOUR. Go to FanDuel.com/Subpar and sign up to receive a NO SWEAT FIRST BET up to ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS!

Hello world. Welcome back to golf subpar with Colt Nost and Drew Stoltz. Another week on the PGA tour in the books, the final week before the playoffs. And Lucas Glover is your champion picking up his fifth PGA tour win out at Sedgfield Country Club. Please, first, as always, got to compliment you. You look fantastic. You know what? Ditto, bud. Thank you. Just about to get into that. The Navy suits you. Brings out my eyes. Pop. A pop crazy. And the RLX golf collection draws inspiration from the traditional aesthetic of polo. updating it to create a modern sensibility focused on performance-driven design. From sophisticated styles to the most technologically advanced fabrics available, RLX golf is the ultimate in functional luxury and provides pieces that are ready for whatever the conditions bring on or off the course.

Ralph Lauren is the official outfitter of the United States Rider Cup team and partner of the AJGA. Ralph Lauren is proud to continue its sponsorship of golf ambassadors Andrea Lee, Billy Horshaw, Davis Love the Third, Devin Bling, Doc Redmond, Jonathan Bird, Nick Watney, Sean Foley, Smiley Kaufman, Todd Anderson, Tom Watson, Trevor Werblow, Troy Taylor III, Tyler Sirfachi, and Captain Zach Johnson. The RLX Golf Collection is available in select Ralph Lauren stores, exclusive private clubs and resorts, and online at Ralph Lauren.com. And we will also be at one of those beautiful Ralph Lauren stores next week during the BMW

championship. We're going to be sitting down with Captain Zach Johnson. Lots to get into with El Capitan. Get ready, Zach. We are coming. But let's get back to the Wyndham Championship. Lucas Glover putting on an absolute ball striking clinic. And now he's got a magical wand. This thing from Lab Golf has just changed his career.

This is a guy for the last 10 years. You know, we don't like to use the word very often, but he's been open and honest about it. He's battled the yips for the last 10 years. And ever since the switch to this putter, the week before the memorial, he had a little break. Put this new wand in the bag. And it is working.

dude, this guy looks so comfortable over the putter, has went on an absolute tear. He's gone from 112th to 49th in the FedEx Cup standings, booked his way into the playoffs. But this guy, he's one of the best ball strikers on the planet, never misses the center of the club face. Now he's got confidence in the putter. Look out for Lucas Glover in these playoffs. Yeah, the same way Ricky and Windham made the Odyssey jailbird super popular counterbalance. They're selling them now.

I saw Chez Revy was putting with the exact same model at the Barracuda. A lot of guys, even Justin Thomas, try the counterbalance Cameron version. obviously up at the 3M, but like that gained a lot of speed. Now you got Adam Scott, kind of was the first guy to adapt this lab golf putter. Ben On was using it last week and what it's done for Lucas like, dude, it just changed him completely. He's been, he's number one in approach to the green this year on the PJ tour, but just for years, I'm able to get in the hole. And he was like, he made some putts from like the further away from the hole he gets so you could see it going. But it was like the borderline tap-ins.

Like that was his quote after the tournament. He's like, it's nice to not miss tap-ins. anymore. I mean, that was the sight of what, when he had the chance at 59, you know, a handful years ago, and we saw the comebacker for 60 that, I think, hit off the Scotty Cameron print on the putter. And it was just like, man, just to keep your card for that long putting it like that shows how good of a ball striker he is. But hell of a performance. Sleepy, I mean, from 169, like this dude, if he played his way in a tour championship, I wouldn't be shocked at this point. It would be a hell of run. Going to a golf course, he loves in TBC Southwin and Memphis this

week. But good to see him back. He's just one of the good dudes, man. I love him one of my favorite guys out there. He used to play a ton of practice rounds with him, was just always in awe of his ball striking. But now to see him with the putter. See his kids there on 18, daughter crying. Freaking out. You know, son yelling, Daddy, You Won.

Such a cool moment. Had a bunch of friends and family in town. He's from Greenville, South Carolina, just a few hours from Greensboro. But one for the good guys there for sure. Reading a lot of books out there? Of course. The biggest reader.

By the way, he's a voracious reader. He was one of our, we had a fantastic interview with him. He's awesome. True. That's right. So good juju. Congratulations, Lucas Glover. Another big storyline, Justin Thomas, just missing out on the playoffs, added the last two weeks, played the 3M, played the Wyndham championship, trying to make his way into the playoffs, making an impression on Zach Johnson to get on that Ryder Cup team in Rome. I mean, just devastating. Had the hot finish, eagled 15, then got the bad wind gust on 16 with the part three he claims, made bogey. and then the chip that just hit the dead center of the pen and bounced out

was the difference of him playing this week in Memphis instead of being at home in Florida. I ended up finishing 71st on the points list. Literally as close as you can get without doing it. And I was like, I was driving home at the time. I had a record. All of a sudden, my phone started going nuts. Can you believe that? Bone should have been tinned the flag.

I'm like, oh, my God, what happened? Then I went and saw it. I was like, we wouldn't tend that. By the way, if he had tinned that and yanked it, people would be like, you leave that in. You leave the pin in. That ball goes in. I mean, it hit the dead center. of that hole. And now, you know, he's, he's the odd man out. He's got to watch the playoffs and just,

it's kind of up to Zach John. He's got some decisions to make that I think one through nine, all the way through Jordan Spee is locked on this team. And I think once you get that 10, 11, 12 spot, Keegan Bradley, Colin Moracawa, Sam Burns, I think there's some wiggle room there. JT, obviously, one of the names to be considered. And then there's still two weeks left of big golf of points to be had. And then they don't make the picks until after the tour championship, obviously. But there's a lot shakeup that can still be left but um justin thomas unfortunately out of his hands at this point yeah you know talking with him i mean his his confidence is there he just hasn't got the results he's wanted he's really made some strides in his ball striking it feels like the putter was better this week it wouldn't

him end up finishing tied for 12th i mean i've said it for the last few weeks Justin thomas is gonna be on that team i just really think zach johnson is going to pick him 16 5 and 3 between President's Cup and Ryder Cup. He's a beast in those things. I use the example on our serious X-M show. I mean, I know his form hasn't been that great, but we talk about it when Jordan Speeth gets to Augusta National. When he drives down Magnolia Lane, something clicks for that guy, and it brings out the best in him. When Justin Thomas gets in these team events, something clicks, and he is an absolute monster. The guys want him on that team. I know Jordan Speath wants to team up with him. I'm going to go out on the limb right now and say it's going to cause him controversy because

he is not in the playoffs. But Justin Thomas will be picked for this. Ryder Cup. It's going to be, I would not be shocked at all if Justin Thomas makes this team. However, I do think whoever is the odd man out, whoever's inside that top 12 and gets bumped, that's a tough call to make for Zach. And like, hey, dude, you did everything. You had a great year. You had a great last two years. You won in some instances, one in multiple times in some instances, depending on which name you're kicking out there. There's another name that was inside the top 12 last week. He's now out. Ricky Fowler now sits at 13. I think Ricky Fowler is going to be on that team. So we're both making predictions here.

Like putting two guys in that aren't in the top 12. Who's coming off? Yeah. And there's another guy trying to make a big push. Got to give him a shout out for a final round 58 at the live event. Bryson to Shambo starting to play some better golf. Obviously, making history. One of only a few guys that have shot 58 in professional golf, but he did it and he ran away

from the field at the Greenbrier out there. He's another one. I mean, if he goes out and plays well again this week, he could possibly be on that radar. He was one of the popular guys at Whistling Straits when he drove the first green. but a lot of decisions to be made. Played good at the PJ Championship, right? And you only get a few cracks if you're on Liv. I saw people tweeting like, it's Greenbrier,

everyone shoots a little there. I'm like, it's a 58 with a bogey. Like 13 birdies relax. Like, it's okay to acknowledge good golf happens somewhere else. And that was a hell of around. I don't think it's enough. If he goes and does something similar this week on Live and runs away in a landslide like he did last week,

then there's some push on that. But I feel pretty confident. I think Brooks is the only guy from Liv on this team. Do you know, though, Bryson was also four shots away from a $54 million payout? 54 million? Yeah, if you shoot 54, yeah. Shit. A couple, that bog, you turn that into a beagle, you're right there, you know, one more.

So close, so close. That's a hell of a deal. Pretty safe bet that that might not ever pay out. Well, I'll be honest, he played much better golf than myself and my partner up at the Gaza Ranch. Remember a guess. We finished third in her flight. There was only six teams. On the podium.

It was not very good, but what a time it was. Big shout out to Gaza Ranch. They do an unbelievable job with their member guests, the Bull Rush. The time was had. Let's just say that. I will say, I haven't told you this yet. I did make a mistake. It wasn't quite to the level of you at Mycoba.

You take some money to play some shit? That's not a mistake, dude. That's called life-changing money. I didn't take any money, but I recently got some new irons. I wasn't real happy with them. So I talked to Calloway and I was like, hey, man, I really want these new ones. Is there any chance you can get them here for the member guests for me? So they put them together.

They overnight them to me. They're shiny. And they're beautiful. They look great. Just like I want them. Like, I got to play them. Go to the range. They feel great.

Well, the lobst are like a week, a degree or too weaker than mine. And so I hit some very nice iron shots and kept coming up about eight to ten yards short every time. Not sure if it was the strike, the irons, or the substances. But it was probably not the best business decision looking back. My partner was like, go get those other freaking irons out of the garage. I'm like, dude, I'll figure it out. I'll figure it out.

It turns out we were not fine. They're too shiny. You can't leave in the box. And you got no scar tissue with them? Yeah, put those bad boys in play. Now imagine if you got game-changer money. Five racks. Five racks.

You tell me you ain't putting them things in play? 100%. Well, let's get to this, though, because you played historically with Brennan Moral. You boy, shot out BMO. He forgot this year, apparently, that you guys have been partners in the past, invited Stephen Spee, who replaced you. Who is not Jordan Spee. Yes, but there is a relation there.

And Stephen, God damn, what a 10 of a human being he is. We will save the Stephen Speed stories. But how do we doing that? Because that was the rivalry built in. There's some hate there. So they saved that for the last match. How you do it is you have two nine-hole matches Thursday, two nine-hole matches Friday, then a nine-hole match in the morning and then the shootout.

And we were last. Both teams basically 99% mathematically out of it. We ended up losing. We played pretty good. They played incredible. Stephen actually played somewhat similar to Jordan back in 2015 on our little stretch holes. Immediately he texted Jordan and then I get a FaceTime.

So I have the match to go today. I was like, oh, shut up, Jordan. But yeah, we lost. It was disappointing. Neither team made it to the shootout. But, man, it was a time was out. I will have to say, you and I, we have a lot of heart. We give it all we got.

Everything I got. Play to the whistle. Everything. My man Ray Whitney, I love you to death. You're the greatest goddamn human on the planet. We're on the fifth hole. of one of our matches playing Justin Upton and Ian Kinsler. Tough-type match.

And look over on the fifth, us three on the T-box. And there's my man with his head and lean back on the seat of the cart. Meditating. I think my partner's taking a nap. I'm like, what's happening? I'm like, Ray, no response. All of a sudden, Ian goes over, hears him snoring, gives him a little tap in a sensitive area. Jumps up.

I'm up. Sorry, guys, you need a quick, quick little nap. So I think that might be the first time I've ever seen that. Disappointing for him. A little nap during the middle of the round. So Ray, maybe next year, maybe we get a little Red Bull, a little Celsius in us. I can fix that. And we got to play through it.

It's nine whole match. Come on. I can fix that quickly. Ray's all heart guy, too. He had enough balls to get in front of me on the ice rink. I respect any man that has the courage to do that. But typically, like, y'all played to Steve that last, the third day morning match. Cool, buddy.

I mean, that's just like, would you? you make dub. I think you guys won. We didn't finish. That's a tough. That match is normally sloppy, slop. The three day member guest is exhausting. It's probably too much.

It's like Vegas. I got there Tuesday. We, in the afternoon, went on the boat, had a time. Wednesday, played golf at a time. Then the tournament starts. Thursday, Friday, Saturday. And I was rocking and rolling pretty good as far as how I felt. Saturday morning I woke up and I'm like, I felt like I got hit by Dwight Freeney.

I was like, oh, my God. Golf. Now we got to go play again. You get over that first ball and you're all, you got the dizzies going on. I'm like, this is this go anywhere. I need this thing on a T every time. Yeah, but, but. Good heart though.

You heard out. You finished top three. Top three. Bronze. That's a metal. I finished definitely top one or two at the tree bar though. Okay. I put on a show.

That's good. That's the end of the year tree bar challenge. And emcee the shootout and had some fun with that. James Mundy, pro there. He's always the charge of the MC. They said, do you want to help out a little bit with it? I said, sure, no problem. chime in here, but this is his deal. So he introduces me right out of the gate from CBS Sports,

subpar. All that's like, wow, I'm used to sitting next to Drew Stoltz and Jim Nance. Now I'm talking with James Mundy. Life comes at you fast. Quick, bud. Yeah, if you don't stop and look around. I love you, Monday. You might miss it. Good time. Those emcees is a good time to make enemies. Like, I can say whatever I want. No one can do anything. And if they get mad, then they look like an asshole. Like, they told me just to make people laugh. And there's some people there that I don't know that well. Well, I have learned that some of them don't take it as well as others. me. I'm finding out who that is for the future and I'm like, I'm okay, not talking to that person. I'm well aware. Every now and then I'll run into some golf tournament and be like,

oh yeah, you said this about me at the twin fan. I'm like, ah, you know, buddy. You know how it goes, buddy boy. Just joking around. All right, well, before we get to our guests this week, we got two very special guests. The playoffs are here and there is no better place to get in on the golf action than Fandul, America's number one sports book. Right now, new customers can get a no sweat bet up to $1,000 back in bonus bets. And the field is loaded. Just 70 guys. Scotty Sheffler, all the best in the world. You can bet outright wins, top 20s, head-to-heads, whatever you want. And if you've been thinking about joining Fandul, there's no better time to get in on the action.

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time, but nobody out there yell at our guys like they did at Marty Fish at Tahoe. Yeah. Disrespectful. Disgrace to the game. All right. Tighten it up. And once again, make sure you go to fandle.com slash subpar and get amongst it with us. Let's get to some picks.

Only 70 guys. We're going to finish top 70. Got a one in 70 chance. I like those odds. I've fired on first. Check the numbers. Yeah, it feels like it pencils. Okay.

All right. My favorite. I'm going to the guy who's just, he's been so consistent. He's made a gazillion cuts in the row. Don't have to worry about doing that this week. I'm going Victor Hovlin at 20 to 1. Something about this plays, ball striking. You know, his chipping always is a top conversation.

You're chipping off Zoya at TPC Southwind, which is basically on a T. Give me Victor Hovlin going off 20 to 1, hoping the wind blows so his ball striking really shines. Ball striking, not an issue for Vicky Boy. All right, I'm staying in the same continent as you, all right? I'm going to the guy 25 to 1, been playing awesome without winning. Okay, last nine events, only one finish outside the top 20. By the way, just won himself a cool million last week. And he wasn't even in the field.

Won the Aeon Risk Reward Challenge. Shout out, Stephen Yeager. He needed to make Eague on the 15th on Sunday. Did not hold a bunker shot. A million goes to this man. Accurate off the T, elite iron player. We all know that. All the makings are going to be Trial Hatton, 25 to 1.

A million dollars richer than he was just a couple of days ago. One of my favorite humans, and I'm very just impressed with your math and geography skills. See that? Yeah. It's not all beauty, dude. TCU. Who said it's an easy school? It's not all beauty, dudes.

Yeah, it's the Stanford of Texas. All right, my underdog this year, or my dark horse this week. He lost in the playoff at this golf course last year to Will Zalotaurus. He's 55 to 1. He's been playing incredible. He missed the cut at the 3M, but that's after going all the way over to the Open Championship. So I'm not even counting that. He's up to 24th in the world.

He won the John Deere. He finished tied for second at the open. The big boy, Sep Straca. What were his odds? 55 to 1. This is the nice thing about the playoffs. There's only 70 guys. You get damn good players that could win any given week.

there and you get him at 50 plus to one. It's nice. Sep playing really good. Probably going to be on that European Rider Cup team, I would suspect. All right. Which is in Europe. It is in Europe. Rome. When in Rome, dude? All right. 60 to 1 is my dark horse pick this week. In the playoffs, after a very nice late push to the season, top seven and four of his last five. Pretty damn good. Runner up at the 3M. 7th last week at the Wyndham. Also got one of the best bagman in the game, whose fame is now causing a little bit of a distraction. Aaron Fleener. Give me J.T. Posting.

602-1. Kids running hot. And in Memphis, Homa Elvis, great singer. If you didn't know that, Aaron Fleener, great singer. Fleer could be a little distracted. This is probably as close as they get to Nashville. I'm probably trying to lock up a record deal this week. JT. Don't be afraid crack the whip on Fleanor a little bit.

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Well, let's get to our guests this week. We've got two very special guests that are way smarter than you and I. Speak for yourself. fellow RLX guy, Sean Foley, and David Woods. David Woods created this incredible training device called the ProCender, which is just taking the PGA tour by Storm. Over 70 guys are using it. We're here to talk about that.

Their history teaching the game, Sean Foley used to teach Tiger Woods, among a lot of other people. I heard that. And also, he doesn't let you talk that much, which I quite enjoy. So let's get to it. Here's Sean Foley and David Woods on Subpar. Okay, it is time to welcome two of the most respected names in the world golf instruction. They coach up players across the PGA and LPGA tours. They've coached major

champions. And they are the masterminds behind the pro cinder, the new training aid taking the golf world by storm. We got Sean Foley and David Woods. Welcome, boys. Thanks for having us. Thanks for the time. Sean, as always, looking incredible, your RLX. And I just want to point out to everybody that as usual, we were waiting on Sean, just a few minutes late, fashionably late, we might say. He likes to make an appearance. Cole, you and I go back to 2007

in our nine holes with Stephen Ames, if you remember. I actually have that written down. I was going to say, before we get into it, I mean, I've known this man for a very long time. Right when I turned pro,

went out to play a practice round, Randy Smith was with me here at Greyhawksleys, and I walk up onto the tea, and there's Stephen Ames with this beautiful gentleman down here in your bottom right, Sean Foley.

And we had ourselves a time, man, and we've been great friends ever since, but I will never forget that day at Greyhawk. Remember, we went to the Cheesecake Factory after, and you just absolutely laced him with the, man, you're really good, how many times have you won? And he's like, oh, you know, four. And you're like, wow, you got some mental issues, bro. You should be better than that. I used to like to give Amsey a hard time. Man, that was great, man. But thank y'all so much for joining us. We're obviously going to talk a lot about y'all, but this pro cinder is taking the world of golf by storm right now.

you see so many guys. Over 70 tour players are currently using it. I just got one a couple weeks ago, tinkered around with it quite a bit. But why don't you all tell us, like, how did this whole thing come about? Sure, sure.

Well, Sean and I have known each other probably just over a decade, met out on tour. And then a short time after that, I invited Sean to come to the club here and be my celebrity guests at my golf school. And we all know Sean's a celebrity. So it's been great.

He's been coming every year ever since. And, you know, it just, I think this all kind of came about maybe about a year ago. Sean, he always stays at my house when he's, he's in town. And we were just, you know, up one evening having a couple beers. And I explained to him about a training aid, a wrist aid that I had been kind of working on a prototype for and showed it to him. We kind of went back and forth. And then we got talking about the success he had with using a very small ball. near the wrist joints to kind of bring Lydia Coe back from the high ranking that she'd

climbed to bringing her back to world number one and how that really really helped her progress and you know one thing led to another we decided to kind of co-op the products together and and next thing you know we've got you know one of the only three and one training aids that that's on the market it's it's it's just been a you know a a a a a a a a a a a a partnership it's it's uh we're about five or six months into the process and like you said it's been it's been wildly uh successful yeah you can't go up and down a range without seeing a number of guys especially on tour a ton of those guys using it and there's a lot of golf training aids out there right was there any hesitancy on either side either you david or you sean like just putting out a

training aid period because a lot of them are so gimmicky and they're trashed there are other ones that of great as well. But was there any hesitancy? Like, how do we make sure people know this is the real deal and not just some sort of gimmick on an infomercial? Yeah. Go ahead, John. Yeah. I mean, I think to a large extent, you know, this is almost my second decade on tour. I've had hundreds of opportunities to be the face of all these training aids. And this is the first one I've ever been a part of because, you know, Holt and I talked about this before, but I grew up in the golfing machine that I was coached in golfing machine like Bryson and these guys. So I was saying to Woodsie the other day that, you know, when I first went for my first lessons with Greg McCatton

out in L.A. as an 11-year-old, when I went to shake his hand, he put my hand into extension and it had me clear my hips. So the golf machine handshake was like right wrist extension and then clear the hips. And so pretty much from that day, my whole life has been really about figuring out. out this right hand and this right arm and the right side of the body. And I think the problem with golf is, you know, up until lately, we haven't really had enough science to measure and tell us exactly what's going on. So, you know, Colts a world-class player. He says, I like to feel I do this. And I like, well, that's not very helpful for other people except themselves. So when you look at the design of how Dave bent it, and remember, Dave is teaching, you know, a lot of very good players.

and a lot of his members. And the word that hit golf by storm, and I think my boy Georgie Gank is responsible for the term shallow and to get the club shallow. But really all that we're trying to do is this thing's built at about 51 degrees. So the average rates of wrist extension on tour

go from 42 to 63. So Hovlin's like at 63, DJs around the same. John Rom is around the same. And then on the other side of that spectrum, you might have a player like a Justin Rose in the mid-40s. Phil Mickelson's in the low 40s. And not to say you can't do that, but there has to be some other pieces of the puzzle.

So for someone like Phil, who Colt knows well, Phil cannot have a short back swing. If he has a short back swing, he'll never be able to square the face. He needs time with how he moves the golf club. So give me an idea here is that when the right wrist is an extension, amateur golfers are around 13 to 30 degrees.

All right. So, Cole, I can teach any amateur on the street how to shift their weight and turn their body. That's easy to do, right? But they still don't hit the ball well. And I just, I think we go on the wrong direction when we talk too much about ground forces and when we talk about tilting and turning and getting open and using torque and rotation, when we all need to understand that all these players on tour, on tour because of how their hands hold a golf club and how their hands and arms put information into that golf club.

So I'm good to talk about the feet and the legs if we're talking about Lionel Messi, but if we're talking about Tiger Woods, I'm more interested in what his hands were doing to the golf club because, you know, that's really the key. And then when you look at the right arm through evolution, I'm a right. hand golfer and a right-handed person telling me to get my left wrist bowed is just is no man's land for right-handed people. So I think the most important part is Hogan talked about he always wanted the elbows to feel like they were close together. So once you put the ball in, and the ball's not for everybody, it's a little more of a higher level, but everyone can use it for pitching in

wedge play. Hogan basically said he wished he was born with three right hands because he understood the importance of the right hand, and then he talked about the elbows feeling closer together. So Ben was into external shoulder rotation, which is popular term in golf now. I mean, years and years ahead. So really, between the golfing machine and reading the five lessons, my whole life has always been about this point of the golf swing, because the down swing is two to three one hundredths of a second. So as soon as the hands go from here to about here. As soon as they get here, that's all she wrote for changing what the club is doing with the hands. And that's where the body changes. So turn on the internet, turn on anything, and every

single instruction article is about why you don't early extend, early extend, early extend. But honestly, we've been taught to be on plane. So to go up and down on the same line. The traditional plane, the club is way too in front of us. So if from here I started to rotate, I would just slice it. So the reason people early extend is because they've come down, the hands are too far in front of them, and then they have to stand up so they don't slice across it. So the thing about the pro sender is that the way it's built this way and then also this way. So you have extension and then you have the radial. So the radial is kind of like the lag angles that you see. It's not about how much lag a player creates. It's about how fast they get rid of it. So Cole, you know,

when you weren't hitting it well, it's because you weren't releasing it properly. And And I feel like the word release has become such a bad word. How am I going to square the club face that's miles open coming down if I don't release the club? So I think what ProCender has allowed, look, it's helping pros, but the DMs and the videos we get from amateurs is almost an infomercial every single time. And I think if we've sold 25,000, I think we've returned, what, less than 100? I mean, it's because it helps. And that's why when Dave showed it to me, I was like, man, this checks off all the principles. This checks off getting the clubhead behind the hands, getting the face more square, making sure that the right arm's able to lengthen and extend more.

All this stuff about keeping the arm bent into impact is just absolutely nonsense. There's probably five people in the world who can actually do that. So, you know, we're taking, you know, the players like Waco and Victor Hovlin and Camer, and champ, these guys who are simply movement unicorns. Well, are you guys into Major League Baseball? Well, yeah, I follow. It's a little ball. Yeah. All right. How many sidearm pitchers are in the major leagues right now?

Not many. There's five, right? Yeah, as I say, there's very, very few. I'd take your word, yeah. So there's five golfers who are sidearm deliverers and who can bend sideways and come in super shallow and lean the shaft a ton and still be efficient. Do you know what I mean? So I think, so here's my point.

Like if early extension is not good, if not opening and clearing and rotating is not good, then how do you explain Tom Watson, Johnny Miller, Jack Nicholas, and Greg Norman? Their butt was off the wall halfway down and the down swing. So what did they all do? They were all very good at where the wrist set was and where the conditions of the club was.

So even when we see the beautiful swing of Adam Scott, at the top of his swing on 3D, his face is still 100 degrees open. He's got to twist that thing so fast to square it up. And this just helps people, but especially amateurs, to be able to do those things. And I, you know, I listen to the commentary there during the British Open about how good Tommy Fleetwood is because his face stays stable longer than anyone. But Tommy's club face is closing at 3,000 degrees per second. There's nothing stable about anything. Even Tiger's cutting stroke had a lot of open and close to it. So this is really helping people to get the face better in the back swing.

I think the other part about it, too, is because it limits too much wrist-tinging, what people do is they learn to be able to actually turn and move their body to help complete the back swing. So for me, I think the arms are pretty much done right now. So how do I build the rest of the back swing? I have to build it from there by using how my body pivot. So it's been fantastic and we're so excited. Look, you know me for a long time. Obviously, Randy Smith is one of my closest friends out here.

And yeah, we want to be successful and we want to have a good business. But, you know, it's no different with Randy now than when you first met him as a kid. The enjoyment that he gets watching you hit the ball well and hit it nice, money can't do that. Like I still to this point, like I still to this day, absolutely loving the look on people's face from a world-class player to a 20 handicap when they hit that shot and kind of have that aha moment. I mean, that still is just so special to me and that probably will never go away.

If that goes away, then I'll stop coaching because I think that is one of the most enjoyable parts is proving to someone that they had the ability to do it and you just kind of help them understand maybe the path to doing that. It's a very reward. Yeah. You know, and the one thing that, David, that I love about this, you sent it to me a couple weeks ago and I mess with it because I've always argued with, you know, the method instructors. Like, you're not going to teach me to swing the golf club the way you do Dustin Johnson. We're built totally different.

But this, you know, no matter how you're built, you can use this. No matter what level you are, you can use this because it's all about getting your hands in the proper spot. But I got to ask this because the first time I really saw it was, I believe, on the range of Memorial, Roy McElroy was using it. And I just got to know, what did that do to sales when they showed Roy McElroy. Roy on the golf channel there using the pro cinder. Yeah, no, that was great. And it was probably a week before you saw it on the golf channel that Rory shot me a text and just said, you know, hey, would you send me one?

And of course, I just overnighted it to him. And within a couple days, he sent me a little bit of feedback just saying that he loved it, loved everything about it. They got him in a position that he was working towards that got his risk conditions. a little bit more extended with the right wrist, a little flatter with the lead wrist. He's always going to have a little cup in his lead wrist because he's got a real strong grip. But yeah, I mean, he really liked it. And then, you know, for it to all of a sudden blow up when there was some stuff that popped up on

social media there at the, I think it was like a Tuesday of Memorial. And then, you know, there was just some great stuff of him describing what it was doing for him. and I very quickly got on text with them and thanked them for, you know, all the help and kind of joked around a little bit. But, and then I got to spend some time with them in the locker room and on the range at the Canadian Open in Toronto. And just, yeah, like, he's just a great guy, you know, like, the first thing I want to know is like, is it okay if we, you know, use this footage? And he's like, absolutely, that's great. I love it. I think it's a great product. And I'm happy for you guys doing well. And yeah, I mean, the product was on fire before he ever used it.

Like, it was cranking. But he definitely took it to another, you know, certainly another level. The month of June following that was really big for sales. And it really hasn't slowed down. I mean, we just keep seeing more and more great players. Phil Mickelson using it. He used it. I met with Phil at the U.S. Open gave him one.

I saw him shipping with it. Yeah, one of the best chippers and pitchers of we've ever seen. There he is using a training aid. Yeah, I mean, Cam Smith, I mean, Cam Smith uses it. You know, his coach, Grant, I mean, Grant Field,

he's, he told me Cam's using it like every session. Like he warms up with it before his rounds and he works on it on the stuff they're working on their swing. And you can noticeably see some pretty dynamic changes happening in Cam's swing. especially the top of his back swing. I mean, it's noticeable. I saw a swing of Cam from the British Open without it on,

a swing that I've never seen a swing that way before. So, I mean, it's certainly, along with the great instruction that Grant's giving them, I think it's a good assist in that regard. So, yeah, I mean, it's been wild. I think it, you know, why is it really popular? I think it's, it doesn't look like you've got some wild contraptions strapped on you, you know, on a driving range. I think it makes people comfortable to use it.

I think it's comfortable to wear. It's, and like you said, Colley, I mean, it truly works for everybody. You know, the whole reason I came up with it is, you know, I was just kind of tired of looking at my swing on video where I was kind of getting lazy as I got older where that lead arm was too far in. My left wrist was getting cuppy and my back swing wasn't creating the elevation that I wanted. So when someone does,

that they try to gain length in their swing by, you know, overhinging or creating too much radial. So I just kind of put myself in a position that, you know, mirror of where I'd like to be, ideally, flat left wrist, basically Adam Scott. I don't look like Adam Scott, doesn't everybody? So I just kind of put myself in that position. I put myself in that position and then just create a mold around it. And then just made sure that that mold gave us a bit of a catch on that index finger to also limit the radial. Spent a little time with Davis Riley here at the club. By the way, I designed this thing two years ago and the prototype sat in my office collecting

dust for a year. Like I just, I was busy and ever did anything with it and I wasn't sure. And then I showed it to Davis when he was in here working on a few things. And I said, hey, you know, he was complaining about, you know, what we referred to as having too much runoff at the top of his back swing where his arm, his arm travel and his body pivot finished and his wrist just keep getting, you know, kind of sauced off. And I said, hey, try this thing. And immediately, as soon as he started, you know, stopped his rotation and his arm elevation, his wrist hinge kind of, it was all, you know, connected and stopped the same time the way he felt

he wanted it to be. And he just convinced me. He's like, you know, first of all, I've got to have this one in which I said, it was the only one I have so he can't have this one. And it just kind of spurred me on to kind of move forward. So I just started the process and, you know, create the name and just kind of the branding behind it and got to work on it. And by the time Sean was at my house, I had, you know, I was far enough down the road to, you know, to be confident that this thing was going to be a hit. And, you know, a hit to what degree you never know. But I knew that it was something that, number one, it was a training that didn't force or push somebody. into a position that you cannot replicate when you take it off.

And that is the most critical thing about this product. It is the job of the player to take the responsibility of laying that trail wrist into the cradle and maintaining it in transition. Number one. For the amateur player, trying to hold it in that cradle as long as they can because most people don't know how to control the low point, they have trouble avoiding, throw in the club head past the grip pre-impact. And for the great players, like Sean mentioned, a lot of these guys like Cameron Champ,

he drags too much leg and Sean works with him on and he lays it into that cradle. He's trying to come out of it immediately because he's a skilled athlete that can get back to impact with a minimal amount of forward shaffling and control his low point, but create a better dynamic loft launch, especially in his wedges. And Sean, you can correct me if any of that, it's wrong. But I think the fact that it works so well for both amateurs and pros, but in slightly different ways. Darren Clark was on a video yesterday that the PGA Champions Tour posted where he was talking about trying to keep his trail wrists in the cradle for as long as he possibly could.

And that's maybe different than some other players. But, you know, Darren and I spent some time with working on his game here this last winter. And he kind of gets throwing it a little too much. And he can sometimes get the grip behind the club at an impact and hitting some thin shots. So, I mean, it's, it worked for such a large, very very. variants of players that I think that's why it's appealed to so many. Yeah, it clearly works. I think too cool, like in coaching for all these years, when you have, you know,

beginners and, you know, new amateurs to the game, the hardest thing in the world is to teach them how to use their hands and arms. And so, you know, when you put it on, it gives you that complete feedback on this is, this is where it needs to be. And so, you know, like I, my son started playing golf about a month ago at 15. He's never played golf. And we went out to the range and I just put it on him. And within 20 minutes, I was just giggling.

You know, he was still topping it, shaking it, and slicing it. But the good ones. So once we kind of worked a little bit with a couple of things that he needed to understand, I mean, that would take me three months to do without it because it's just, it's so tricky and it's so different. four people, but if you look at the right hand, I mean, if you look at Tom Brady, the right hands in the same amount of extension, you look at Nolan Ryan, pretty much every sport where we're releasing an object or releasing a club, the right wrist is an extension, and then the right shoulders elevated and in external rotation. So this is, as human beings who we threw spears and

rocks through evolution, this is very natural for us. This is a very natural feeling for us. So that is very important in how we do these things and how we do it in golf. So I think that's why, you know, that right wrist is that right wrist and trail arm talking to some of the great biomechanics experts that I spoke to. And I coined the term long time ago that the hands and arms are the GPS for the golf swing and that the fingers of the keyboard to the computer. So it's very, very important what these things do because just these changes you're seeing. me do here is a difference between compressing a ball and hitting a lob shot, you know, so it is very, very important. Yeah, that's all very fascinating stuff in terms of getting into the swing. And both you guys, you've been teaching for a long time. And during that time, sometimes you see new,

like swing philosophies or techniques that become, quote unquote, in vogue, right? Have either of your philosophies on the golf swing in general, like changed over time, things you didn't use to teach, you teach now, or vice versa? We can start with you, Dave. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I mean, I've never really been a method teacher of one, you know, swing for all people. But I think there's a lot of absolutes that every good golf swing needs to have. There can be different swing styles. But you look at the PGA tour players from P6 to impact or last parallel, you know, for the people that, you know, don't follow that. The moment that the shaft is last parallel with the ground, Pete, and, you know, pre-impact, they all look pretty similar from that point through the ball, regardless of what they look like up at the top.

So, yeah, I mean, my stuff, you know, the stuff I coach evolves all the time. I'm always trying to learn from people in business. I'm trying to learn, you know, from other great people in the golf swing. I've learned a lot from Sean about the golf swing over the years. You know, so yeah, I mean, I think if you look at really good coaches, Sean's a real good example. You know, Ben-on swing looks different than Michael Kim's swing, which looks different from, you know, a variety of.

the other guys that he coaches, Higo's swing looks different than that. So you got to also understand the limitations and the strengths of the player. And you can't, these guys didn't make it to the PGA tour, you know, for nothing. You know,

you don't want to coach the good out of them. The worst thing that a play, you know, a coach can do, Sean talks about this a lot is, is to go out there and give them too much and coach the guy worse. So, you know, just do no harm to these guys at that,

at that top level. Now, certainly at an amateur level. level, which is a large variety, you know, large majority of the lessons that I give, you know, getting these people to understand how the golf swing works, you know, by mode of the hands is, is critical. I spend a lot of time trying to get my people to understand how to have a little bit of forward chaffling and chip and pitch the ball. If someone can be a really great player from 9 to 5 position, I think from there it's, it's a lot easier to become a better player.

you've got someone who can't chip at, boy, I mean, they're going to be struggling to be a good ball strike. Yeah, that's very well said. And Sean, I want to ask you, you know, not only do you all work with a lot of different tour players, but you work with a lot of different personalities. What's it like trying to manage all these different tour players and personalities? Because some of them, you know, you got a kick in the ass. Some of them you got to coddle a little bit. How do you handle all that? Yeah, I don't know. I've just always, you know, like, if I had a gift, it's just been communication, and I think where that's come from is, you know, my dad worked from DuPont. So when I was five, we moved from Toronto to Delaware. When I was six, we moved

to Sam Fran. When I was nine, we moved to L.A. When I was 12, we moved back to Toronto. 13, we moved to Vancouver. Then I went to university, historically black university in Nashville, then worked in Florida. So I've just kind of always been uncomfortable in life. Like I've always been in zones of discomfort where new kid in school, new side of the country, new cultures, new everything. So I think for me, like communication became almost like a survival benefit because being the new kid in school every year is not easy, right? So, you know, I've also always been like a voracious reader. I've read a lot. So I've read a lot about, you know, learning styles and even starting from child development and things like that. So it just depends.

And then it's timing. It's timing because even the guy that you got to grab by the neck sometimes, that time has to be perfect in order for you to do that, right? Like trying to teach my 15-year-old son right now that if you say the right thing at the wrong time in your mother's eyes, you're technically going to be wrong, right? So you got to say the right thing at the right time. And, you know, I think where we run into problems when it comes into society of how we're raising kids or how you're teaching golfers is, look, we're just shepherds, ma'am.

not engineering anything. Like, I don't care how good of a shepherd you are. You'll never turn a sheep into a dog. And, you know, I feel now that the players that I'm coaching now are the safest from my from my own influence, because I feel like I've made almost every cardinal sin at this. So I'm still going to probably make some mistakes, but, man, I've checked off the list of a lot of mistakes that I've made. And the thing about, you know, when you fail, technically, if you're able to apply that failure, then you win the next time. So I'm not afraid at all to make mistakes. I'm not afraid at all to do that.

But when you start really reading about human brain and its ability to change and how you move, it's really tricky. I think when you can really have breakthroughs with guys, it's when you can get them conceptually to have a new understanding. And then things change right away. So a guy has a hard time spinning wedge shots.

Well, when you explain to him how spins created and he goes, well, I never knew that. The next one is spinning. So I think the concept is, you know, there's a thousand different ways that the, you know, commentators will say there's a thousand ways to swing a club, but there's not. There's like only three different ways to swing a club. There's a thousand ways that it looks because everyone looks different. Everyone looks different.

But the fact is, like, just because everyone looks different doesn't mean they're not comprised of water and cells and like we're all the same. Like, we might look different, but we're. not separate, we're identical. So I think as it relates to the golf swing, you know, where it's different now, I got these young guys and say, you know, I want to, I hit a draw, but I need to fade it to be competitive. And I'm like, if you want to try and do that, then I'm not your guy because, you know, you're a number two amateur in the world hitting a draw. Now you think you're on tour. You need to fade it. Like, one, you can learn how to fade it. I can show you how to fade it. But you remember

DJ forever, right, Cole? I mean, that guy used to hit a slinging push draw. And I mean, that guy used to hit a slinging push draw and now he hits a baby fade. How long did that take him to learn how to fade? What? 15 years? 13 years? Wow. Yeah. So the thing like with clubhead speed, it's like the in thing, right? Rosie and I set out years ago, he wanted to be faster. He wanted to carry it 310. It took us three years to do that. We did it to where we wouldn't injure ourselves and we kind of owned every step of the development to speed. Whereas, you know, there's guys who want to swing faster and they're out on the range right now. You can picture it, Cole. And they're sitting there swinging and doing this and doing that. And it's like, they're just on the brink of injuring themselves. And they're in the brink of

really destroying their swing. So you got to be so carefully. You got to remember you're not talking to a human being. You're talking to a human brain. And the brain's pretty stubborn, man. It likes what it likes. I mean, think about the things that you and Randy worked on all those years the same over and over and over and over. Is because so much of what you did. was already very, very, very good. So I think, you know, that that's really important as it relates to communication. And then look, you know, I'm out here doing my job. I'm not out here trying to keep my job.

So I'm going to give you a big hug and I'm also going to kick you. And the ball's harder than you've ever been kicked. And my guys always know where, and my girls, they always know where I stand. It all comes from a place to love. But, you know, look, man, we have one chance at this life, right? Like we're just a dash. We're just a dash on a tombstone at some point. I want to do the most I can with it.

And in order for that, you have to have honest relationships. Because if we're not honest with one another, you know, the things that go unsaid in these relationships affect relationships more than things that go said. And, you know, you can see Scotty and Randy out there. And they literally are arguing on the range. And people go, man, they're arguing. And it's like, yeah, and they love one another.

It's okay to argue. Like, it's okay to disagree. It's okay to build. So I think it's very, very important that also when you start working with a guy, you have to assess like, I know, I've helped some other guys build their stables because I was busy at the time. Someone came to me and I thought, you know what, this guy would be a perfect coach for this guy. And so I send them there. So that's all I want to do is, you know, anyone doing this job, I have so much. much respect and admiration for it. And, you know, to see in recent years some of my friends

starting to have success after working all these years out here, it's so great to see. And look, man, I just, I love the game. I love the people in it. And yeah, I feel very fortunate that Dave and I set out together to do this. What I'm great at, Dave is good at, and what Dave is great at, I'm good at. So we stay in our own lane. I trust David with so many of those things and vice versa. And it's just, it's nice to see it all kind of come to fruition. But coaching to this day, it's like, cold, 90% of my time is really off the course stuff, you know, like guys don't have clarity in their lives or in their understanding.

I don't really care what the next swing thought is, you know what I mean? Because as soon as shit hits the fan on the golf course, it doesn't really matter how you hit it on Tuesday, does it? no i'll tell you i mean one of one of our favorites sean o'hare told me he goes you're you're more than just a swing coach you're a life coach as well so that's a testament to you and you know you know i'm having dinner with tonight colt oh boy well i know who's buying you i i'm having i'm having dinner with sean ohare tonight keep him off that phone keep him off that phone sean if you can hey you know what But in 2009, we had absolutely the most unbelievable, the best time. I mean, I was so lucky from, you know, Stephen Ames was a mentor to Sean.

And then when Sean was, you know, hitting it sideways, he called me, we worked. And then he was best friends with Hunter Mayhand. So he said, can you help my friend Hunter? And I'm like, sure, I'll help Hunter. And then thankfully the USGA put Justin Rose with Sean O'Hare at Beth Page Black. And that O'Hare kid went out the first two days in 2009. and miss one fairway and two grains. And I was up in family dining on Friday evening.

And this hand was on my shoulder and I turned around and it was the great Justin Rose. And I was like, holy shit, man. Like I love you, Justin Rose. You're awesome. He's like, there's no way I should be outclassed by a guy like Sean O'Hare. And I went, whoa, whoa, whoa, easy, bro. Easy. And, you know, Rosie was hot.

Rosie's one of my all-time, like, loves. I just love him. And he's amazing what we were able to do together. I think, Colt, we kind of created a whole thing. We pioneered a whole movement into using Trackman and using 3D and building teams around individual players. We kind of created a monster out here, you know. But so much of success is all these opportunities that you have no control of. And then when you have the opportunity, you know, you either step up to the plate and hit it out of the park or you strike out.

And that's fine, you know. It's been a fantastic journey so far. And I've just added two new players. I've got Ben on, Michael Kim. You know, for me with a guy like Michael Kim, I don't think you can be the number one amateur in the world. Whatever that was that led you to that, that hasn't gone anywhere, right? Like, the guy who's 600 pounds still has a fixed pack, you just can't see it.

You know what I mean? So you know that the beauty and the skill exists within that. That's awesome. Well, you know, listen, we could talk golf swing with y'all all days. This could go for hours. But due to time constraints, because I have a flight to catch. And unfortunately, my plane doesn't wait for me, the one I'm on today. So we're going to jump to the E9 real quick.

Slees, I think we skipped the first one and just let's get right into it. Why don't you start us off? All right, boys. First one, I'm going to start off juicy here. And the answer for you on this, it can't be either one of you on this podcast, okay? It can't be the other one. But if you had to trust your own golf game with one instructor in the game of golf, Who would it be?

Ooh. I'm going to go with Justin Parsons just because he's hot right now. Okay. Love JP. There you go. JP's awesome. I wish I had a, I wish I had a northern Irish accent. Damn.

For me, I'm going to go with, I'm going to go. You froze your thinking really long. No, I'm not thinking. I'm a. Got a flight to catch your first. I think I'm going to go with. I think I'm going to go with Grant Wade. Oh, interesting.

Okay, Grant White. Okay. I don't think Grant White's still over Tiger's Bunker's Out of the Canadian Open. He's still bitter about that one. Sorry, Grant. All right, this one is for David. You've spent a lot of time with the great and one of my favorites that we're hoping to get on the podcast very soon, Darren Clark. I mean, he is an absolute, we use this term way too much, an absolute beauty, but he is a beauty.

Can you give me a quick, fun, Darren Clark story? Jeez. Nothing I can say on line here. No, Darren, I spent a couple days in March here with Darren. And all I can tell you is, you know, voices carry around here. And I had to shush him about a hundred times. I shushed him. And he's like, oh, my God, I'm sorry.

I forget, you know, these two words that I keep saying, David, and I won't even give you the initials. He goes, I will. One starts with an F and one starts with a C. Yeah. I thought so. He's like saying good morning where I'm from. So, you know, you just keep telling me to quiet down and it'll be all good.

But no, I end up last with Darren. He is the best. Oh, my God. Like the most fun guy you could ever be around. But yeah, lots of shit. I was with him at the Masters. And he's like, Cole, I can't do your podcast. I say these words, every other word.

I was like, dude, it's fine. Trust me. It'll be worth it. People will love it. But he is one of the best characters. I can't believe he thought he was going to do TV at one point. I was like, you'll get fired in two seconds. No, it'd be perfect.

No chance. I don't even know him, but I've, like, loved him for about a decade. I was like, that guy gets it. That guy, he understands. All right, next one for me, boys. All right, Sean, I know you got some ink. You got some ink on you. I'm going to ask you for your favorite tattoo you have.

And, David, I'm going to ask you for your favorite tattoo of Sean's. Okay. Probably my favorite tattoo, which is this Malcolm X tattoo, and it says that I'm for the truth, no matter who's telling it, and I'm against injustice, no matter who it's against. So in a world now where we're so divided by you're a Republican, you're a Democrat, you're a Christian, you're a Muslim, he was saying, look, I don't care who's telling the truth. I'm for the truth, regardless of if I agree with your style of politics or not. and when it came to injustice, it doesn't matter if the injustice is against a black person, a white person,

a woman, I'm just against it, period. So I'm for the truth and I'm against injustice. That's probably to me, that's my favorite tattoo. Wise words. And you know, it's pretty tough

to get a word in when you're around Sean. Like he can get, he can get going, right? Like, so getting him to be speechless is very difficult. So, I'm going to go with his new tattoo that says Prana on his right forearm right there because when he was in town here, I had him going, straight-faced, that that was the name brand. I forget what I said.

It was a name brand for like a risque women's clothing line that was a big hit. It's a yoga company. Yeah, it was a yoga company. I had him going for about 15 minutes where he just was staring at me like. already thinking about how he could get it taken off his arms. So I'm going to go in front of it. You mentioned how Sean could talk. This has set a subpar record for the least amount of words Sleez has ever said.

I've never heard him be this quiet ever. Let's have you on again next week, dude. Sean, you're on every week. This is beautiful. All right, this can be for both of y'all. Obviously, y'all's device here is absolutely killing it. But the name, pro cinder, I'm curious to know what names got thrown out. gosh i don't know i i kind of did that one on my own before i even talked to shan and you know what i'm like

so like in the zone i'm so in the zone on it right now i i honestly can't even recollect the the names i threw around i just knew that i wanted to kind of give it uh the like the no e and the hard r at the for a couple of reasons i thought it'd be a lot easier to get a patent and trademark the name um and i just I just, I kind of wanted to just give it, you know, a little bit of special deal. And I think anytime you put the word pro in front of anything, it's a little aspirational for customers. So that's kind of where a pro sender came from. And you know where I got that? Just even the font, I made that font by using literally Instagram font on story creative. Like I went to my story, swiped, hit create and just picked some different script. Boom, it was done. Like I didn't even

hire a designer. I threw the dashes in there. The dashes are now kind of taking a life of their own. You're going to see some of that on some apparel and, you know, just on the front hit. So yeah, we've got some cool stuff coming up. I like it. But it is cold, though. It's very Canadian to say send it, right? Like that word goes back to hockey a long time ago. So the pro sender, both Dave and I are Canadians. It's a it to send it's pretty Canadian. and so pro sender and then you know we do talk about you know sending driver so i i think that's uh pretty good yeah let's send it can go in a lot of different situations yes yes even when the sun's down exactly yes lots of sending when the sun's down yeah yeah little double entendre a little

homage to the boys up north i respect that all right boys uh i know it's not a training aid but i need both your opinions on this here if you had to choose one Which club would give a player the better chance of winning on tour? The Hammer Driver or the Alien Wedge? Both revolutionary. Oh, I got to go with the Alien Wedge. Got to be the Alien Wedge. Hammer would be tough.

I mean, whenever you said the Hammer driver, I just picture that guy's Jack Hammer going, ow! He hits it over mountains, dude. He hits it over mountains with that thing. True, true. I'll go with the Alien Wedge. I think that's probably right.

God, that thing is ugly. Forget rolling the ball back. Remember the diamond? Remember the diamond? With a spin. Yeah, dude. That shit was hot. That went through $1,000 worth of a lot is.

Oh, one swing. Dirt nap. All right. Last one for me, and this is for you, Sean. Has anyone ever come up to one of your players and asked for an autograph and you thought it was for you? No, I don't sign autographs, but I take pictures with kids. stuff. Okay, well, you're lying. You're under oath right now, and you're lying because first week

out with Sean O'Hare, RBC Canadian Open. It was great. I was told a kid came up and said, Sean, can I have your autograph? And you immediately turned around and thought it was for you. And said, sure, kid. Oh, I don't know about that. I don't know about that, bro. I'm telling you, I think if you ask my players, they will tell you that. Hey, O'Hare, O'Hare is a friend of the program. He would not lie to us. He is a very trustworthy source. he's a semi full of shit though mate so you know what simmy i'll i'll sort i'll sort this out tonight because on my word man i mean i've obviously had flag sent to my house and done that stuff but look i'm i'm working with the players i knew a long time ago you can have pga tour caddies and you

can have pga tour agents and you can have pgat tour coaches but in order to have that you have to have PGA tour players. We remove them from the equation and the rest of us don't have a gig. So look, I charge 5% of what they earn. So when they win a tournament, I'm worth 5% when they miss a cut. They're worth 95%. I believe it was y'all's first week. I believe it was 2008 Canadian Open if you just want to think back to maybe if this happened or now. I got an exact date. There's absolutely no way, bro. Andy finished third. I can see it being true. I finished third.

first week. Oh my God. Once he's been with me a million times, you've never seen me do it. I've taken a bunch picture. I say to the kids, leave that flag for all of these guys. That's awesome.

Slead, you got any more? I mean, Sean is like a brother to me, but trust me, his brain is a little mixed up. So I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt here to Sean. Fully, by the way. Man, I think... 100%.

A hundred percent. He's got a lot of weird shit in there. taking up room. He's beautiful, isn't he? God, he's incredible. Love him to death. All right, last one for me, boys. Since you're both Canadians here,

I got to get you this one. Best Canadian export in the entertainment industry, okay? You got Jim Carrey, Ryan Reynolds, Ryan Gosling, or Pamela Anderson. Go. I got to go Reynolds because he's a business guy.

He thinks like I think. He's doing well. Can I go, I'm a hip hop guy. Can I go with Drake? A little, um, a little none of the above. Yeah. Right in? Yeah.

John's a big hip-hop guy. I just Omaha. I just Omaha. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That's a loud. I'm going to go. I think I'm going to go with, yeah, I think I'm going to go with, well, shit, then you got John Kennedy,

Dan Aykroyd, man. We're just full of amazing. There's a ton. I just ripped, I just dragged four, and I wanted to see if Pamela would get any love. It's a multiple choice. Yeah. I guess if you asked me when I was 16, I would have said, Pamela.

I was going to say, you weren't thinking of Ryan Gosling when you were 16. I can guarantee you that. Yeah. This has been, well, Falls, eventually I'm going to have to have you stop talking so we can end this episode. But it's been so much fun, man. Congratulations on the pro cinder. Everyone out there listening, go pick you one up. No matter what level you're at, this thing is going to help you tremendously.

So congrats on all the success, guys, and thanks for joining us here on subpar. Thanks for having us, boys. All right, that was Sean Foley and David Woods joining us on subpar. The Procender, I've been using it some sleaze. It is one hell of a training device. I like it because any skill level can use it. Any body type can use it. It's all about getting those wrist angles in the proper spot, but they've had huge success with it.

It was really cool to sit down and chat with them. Sean Foley just didn't want you to talk. I love you, Sean. I want to compliment you too cold on the ground. greatest interview we've ever done. Fewest words spoken. It was beautiful. Hey, Sean, how are you doing? Well, when you look at the evolution of man, obviously, I'm like, all right, we're getting in here, Shawnee boy. Love it. Those guys are a wealth of knowledge. It's always fun getting those guys on it. They just know so much shit. You think you know some stuff about the golf swing and, like,

these guys are looking at it, you know, 10x deeper than you are. Was curious about the hammer driver versus the alien wedge. I think they made the right decision. Okay. Forget the ball, rollback and all this bullshit we keep talking about. Just say, the only driver you're allowed to use, the hammer. and let's figure it out. I don't agree with that. No, I don't. I'm going to go against you on this one. No, it'll be good.

The hammer, you get over a mountain. Still have not got clarification. Yeah. About the autograph situation with Sean O'Hare and Sean Foley. When the kid came up and said, Sean can I have your autograph? Sean O'Hare tells me,

and he's a very trustworthy source. There's no one more reliable than Sean. That Sean Foley thought the autograph was for him. Still have not got that cleared up yet, but I'm going to dive into this and figure it out. Was that when Sean was battling that little pesky? knee injury he had down there. Could have been while he was dinged up.

Might have been on some meds. I'm not sure. But David Woods, you're the one. We got to give a shout out to David Woods. Really good friends and work some with Darren Clark, who we have got to get on so far. One of the funniest humans.

The editing team might have their work cut out for him. If we do have DC on, but it'll be a lot of fun. But really enjoyed sitting down with him. And I'm telling you, that pro sender, it's the real deal. I highly recommend going and getting it. But special thanks to Sean Foley and David Woods for joining us.

And once again, Gaza Ranch for an incredible member guest week. Absolutely. Proud of you. You gutted it out. You didn't quit. Played in all new gear. You know what it's like now.

Top three. And now I'm going to take three weeks off and go work the playoffs. Go get shit here and then come back. See if those irons go further. I'm clicking getting rid of all the demons. Go Memphis, Chicago, Atlanta. And then I think I'm going to take a nice little month long sleep. Month long sleep.

Then you'll get better. Get faster. Exactly. Yeah. Well, that's going to do it for us. Thanks for listening. Everybody. We'll talk to you on the next subpar.