Subpar - Sports Psychologist Julie Elion explains how she came to work with some of golf's all-time greats, her reaction to client Wyndham Clark's win at the CJ Cup

Episode Date: May 27, 2026

On this week's episode of Subpar, Colt Knost and Drew Stoltz are joined by one of the world's premiere sports psychologists Julie Elion. Having worked with half of golf's top 10 career earners, she explains what drew her to the mental aspect of golf originally, how satisfying it is to see client Wyndham Clark rebound for a huge win at the CJ Cup and her new book "Mastering Your Mental Game." --Learn the Rules of golf anytime, anywhere with Rules 101 — a free online course from the experts at the USGA. Get started  today at USGA.org/Rules101.--Trade real-world events on Kalshi — a federally regulated prediction market — and get $20 when you trade $20 at ⁠⁠Kalshi.com⁠ with code SUBPAR.

Hello everyone. Welcome back to Subpar with Colt Nost and Drew Stolts. And before we get going here, one of our longtime sponsors, partners, Zone Nicotine. Through them, we were able to meet an incredible man in Kyle Busch who lost his life this past week at just 41 years of age. And we just want to send our thoughts and prayers to the Bush family, everyone around Kyle. It was a tragic moment. Like I said, we got to spend some time around him with our friends over his zone, going out in the sand dunes outside of Las Vegas riding around in those crazy Polaris vehicles, letting him scare the absolute shit out of us was one of the highlights of us on this podcast, in my opinion. The video was fantastic.

He was with us at the Rider Cup. Such a great dude. I mean, nicknamed Rowdy, and he lived up to the reputation, man. He was a NASCAR legend, but more importantly, just a great dude and thoughts and prayers to him and his family. I thought a really cool move sleaze by NASCAR, who announced after his passing that his number eight is going to be retired until his son, Brexton, who's 11 years old and already has 150 wins racing until he is, the time is for him to move to NASCAR. He will be the only one that

can represent that number, but just a tragic day, man. I know we were all shocked when it happened, but I thought a real classy move there by NASCAR doing that. Yeah, I mean, that news, I mean, came out of left field. I just started getting texts about it. I had no idea that that was even a possibility. I think it took us by storm, of course, given our relationship with him, the racing world by storm and everybody. You can see it in a sports center, different sports, all honoring Kyle Bush, man. He's been the short time that we got to be friends with him, man. He couldn't have been better to us. It was always super friendly, super fun. Like you mentioned, the sand dunes, that was awesome. Got me to throw up out there. Actually, that's how good he is at his

job. You know, Ryder Cup, all of it was as nice as they come, nice, his family as well. Just a tragic moment. But lucky that we got to know him. He was a good one. So, RIP, Kyle. I'll never forget us jumping out of the car. And him, he was so excited and proud of himself that you were puking. Ran up with his phone on video as it's like coming out of my nose and my eyeballs and everything. And he's like laughing. I was like, yeah, yeah, it was just a matter of time.

I got so close to the finish line, but couldn't keep it up. But, man, yeah, he will be missed. He will be missed. So RIP, Kyle, man. We're thinking about the Bush family. All right, let's get going here on subparously. And what a week for your man, Wyndham Clark, who got his fourth PGA tour win down at the CJ Cup, Byron Nelson in Texas, Donning the Cowboy hat at the trophy ceremony.

A little final round, 60, to shoot 30 under par for the week. The man was flying around TPC, Craig Ranch. I mean, he's played some good final round. He got a 60 at Pebble Beach, too, but that was about as in control of the round of golf as I've seen in a long time. He was incredible off the tee. It's generous fairways out there. Iron play was spectacular. And that putter, dude, that was a joke. I mean, you had a stat earlier that you read off. What was it? He hadn't had a single round this season, gaining two

shots on the field and strokes gained putting? Yeah, strokes game putting. He did not have one round in 2026 where it was positive two or more, which is just shocking because you think one round this level. These guys are so good. You're going to get a hot putter one day, shoot something low, or just save a bunch of par putts or make a 60-footer. He did not have won the entire season. at Craig Ranch, all four were over two shots in the positive as far as strokes game putting. I believe there was like 12.4 for the week. Yeah, I mean, he was hitting it close. He was making it.

Even when he made a few long ones that you don't expect, the putts that missed looked like they were going in, looked like he hit it exactly where you want it. And with the way, well, two things. One, 25-mill renovation, 30 under. Granted, the weather, got it, Zoya, all the stuff, still, 30-under part. But the way they did those greens, like, if you can. if you're on with your iron game, which Wyndham was, and you're hitting in the right quadrants, let's call it, you got a lot of puts that don't have a ton of break,

like you referenced before. You get a lot of good look. If you're hitting it poor with your irons, you're going to have some crazy circus puts. You might be chipping, like it can be tough. But for guys that drive it like Wyndham when he's driving it straight, as hard as he hits it,

and as good as he was with his irons, he was hitting a ton of puts that were like, half a ball out, right at, you know, like 15 footers with very little break, and it felt like he made every single one of them. Yeah, it's always been that story around Craig Ranch. It used to be long. Now it's not long.

They went in and made some renovations. And I will say, Lanny Watkins and his team made the place look so much better. It came across way better on TV. The players loved the changes off the T. But the Greens, like, yeah, he made them very severe. They had always had some humps and bumps in them. But if you, like you said, you get the irons in the right sections, the Greens are so pure. They're not that fast.

You have a lot of flat putts. I mean, you have 15 footers that are right. edge. These guys are so good, they're going to make a ton of them. That's why we're going to see a number of birdies. I'm interested to see what happens with the course going forward as it matures because I know there was a lot of areas like, you know, Scotty's ball on 15 on Sunday stayed up in the rough there, just left of the green. I think in the future that ball goes in the water. They expect to probably shave down some of these banks. Same thing on 18 as well. Like Siwu on Saturday, came up a little short, stayed on the bank. But they got to change something, in my

opinion as far as you can't control mother nature it did rain some they had virtually zero win for four hours but we got to grow some rough up man I mean this ball's on a tee when they missed the fairways these fairways are already 40 yards wide on average for the most part and then you miss it it's like oh no big deal balls sitting on a tee over here in the rough and they just absolutely destroy it was the lowest cut on the pGA tour so far this year it's six under par it's just a birdie fest out there yeah the weather played a huge part but I just I want them to tough in this place up a little bit. Yeah, Zoyzha, grass, and ball in hand, and no wind. You're going to get what you're going to get. If the wind blows like it normally can, or normally should, they're cold, like,

now hitting it in these quadrants becomes a lot trickier. You're going to have shots into the wind, shots that are playing a lot longer. But like when it was the conditions that it was this week, I was like this, they might have made it easier for these guys, because if you're hitting it good, you get in those quadrants like we talked about, you got easy puts. I feel like it's got a lot harder for the average golfer who doesn't hit it close to all. And now they're going to have crazy, they're going to be three putting all over the place out there. But when you give it to the pros and you get those conditions, I'm like, you might have made it easier for them this year.

So I'm with you, like, something has to change. It's year one of the redo, and they got the perfect conditions to score it, so we'll give it a pass. But like, you give it normal conditions. It's still going to be way under par out there. But tip of the cap to Windham, man, down by two. Say what you want. I don't think of, like, top players, if you consider Windham in that class,

like, he's not in contention as much as a lot of the guys are. But when he has been, like, you go back to Quill Hollow with Xander and that weekend he had there. That was incredible golf. You go to Pebble, obviously, the closing, the 60, the final round was canceled. That's unbelievable. It held off Rory in the final round at LACC to win that. And then he goes and shoots another 60. When he's been in the hunt, he's been really good.

Like, he's closed out at a very nice clip. He just hasn't been there as often as you might expect. But this one was big for him, given, like he referenced in his interview, on the course and off the course stuff, which I'm glad he addressed, you know, for the first time, really, and just how he's trying to kind of work his way back into the good graces of everybody. Yeah, it's been a rough year or so for Wyndham, obviously. The incident at Oakmont, you know, the incident at Quill Hollow with the driver throw. It's not been the best, and the play has reflected that.

But, you know, he handled Sunday very well. I thought he said all the right things in his interview, and hopefully this turns in the game around and starts getting that reputation back as a good dude and a hell of a player. But it was awesome to see, man, shooting final round 60 to win. Scotty Sheffler and Siwu Kim out there in front. Couldn't have asked for a better leaderboard at a field that's not the best there at the CJ Cup, Byron Nelson.

For us, like at CBS, to have Siwu and Scotty in the final pairing was like, holy shit, this is a miracle, basically. Couldn't ask for anything better. But how about Siwu Kim, a little five-shot lead through 36, shoot 68, 65. I mean, this is about three. By three. You look at it at the end, and it's like it wasn't even close. It was closer than that, but it's like, damn, getting across the finish.

I mean, the only better case scenario for this event this week would have been having Jordan Spief up there as well as those other guys. And probably, I would argue, Colt, a good, I don't want if you call it break, but for Wyndham Clark to be in that second to last group with Stephen Yeager, as opposed to the final group with Scotty or something like that, you know. He would have been with Siwu. He would have been with Siwu, but to not be paired with Scotty essentially in that, on his home, you know, in his hometown, best golf for the world, all that. stuff. It's definitely a more comfortable pairing for him with Stephen. Yeah. And it was also another really nice week for Scotty Sheffler. You know, he's only got one win this year. I think it's seven top fives now in 11 tournaments. There's some weeks, as I said on our serious XM show, you just get beat. I mean, you run into buzz saws like there. There was nobody going to beat Wyndham Clark

with how he was playing. There was nobody going to beat Cam Young at Durow when he shot 19 under par around there. It's been an interesting year for Scotty. I was pulled up some of his stats just to see like what the difference is between this year and the last several years. You know, he's still number one in strokes gained total on the PGA tour. He's number one in Greens and Regulation. He's seventh in strokes gained approach, which is where he normally separates himself. You know, the last three years, he's been number one in that category. You go back to, I got it written all down right here.

So the last three years, okay, number one in strokes gained approach, he's 15th this year. So a little bit of a difference, but nothing crazy. proximity to the hole. This is where it gets weird. In 22 and 2023, the wraparound season, he was 12. In 2024, he was second. Last year, he was number one in proximity to the hole. This year, he's 123rd.

But he's leading in Greens and Regulation. So he's hitting a lot of solid iron shots. He's just not hitting it close to the hole. And that's the biggest difference right now. And I think that's what's keeping him from having four or five wins already this season. Yeah, probably why his putting stats look a little better, too, because when you're hitting it to 12 feet every hole, you're not going to make all those

and you're going to drop some shots. When you're hitting it to 35 and two putting, you're more in the mix there. It would have been really, I'm curious to know who was number one, the year that he was number two, who hit it better than him throughout the year. But like a little drop,

given how good he's been, like to sustain that level of ball strength for year after year after year after. Like, I don't think that's, we haven't seen people do that. Like he was in a weird level of golf where he was hitting as good as anybody that's ever played the game, more or less.

So like a little drop. Like you mentioned, going from first to 15th. Like, that's kind of about where you would expect. But to go to, you know, proximity to, would you say, 123, I believe, from, you know, that's, and that could be maybe he's driving it a little more crooked. Maybe he's playing from the rough more,

so he can't hit it, you know, it's harder to hit it as close as he has in the past. But that's a pretty good jump, but still to be leading the tour in Greens and Reg. Like, he's having all these close finishes without, I don't think anybody's seen close to his best stuff, which we keep harping on week after week, he keeps doing it.

I think he's at 35 straight top 25, which is just insane. Yeah, and it looks like he's just, you know, he's on cruise control. Like nothing, like, not much is going right for him. And yet here he is on Sunday every single time, whether he's 12 back or he's playing good going into the weekend. He's always right there. So he going to be just fine. Get ready.

Get ready. It's common. A little chance for the Grand Slam here in just two weeks at the U.S. Open. So, please, I cannot wait for that. It's going to be on his birthday on Father's Day. Chance for a very special week for Scott. It was a special week for us this past week with our friends over at Kalshi. We did some good picking.

How about Siwu Kim, top 10 prediction hit? Keith Mitchell, top 20 prediction hit. We had Brooks Kepka. At one point, I texted you a Mark on Thursday. It was Brooks was leading. Seaw was second. Keith was third. I was like, dear God, just run the clock out.

Call it off thunderstorms, but it's official. Yeah, that was a nice little start. the week right there. Hey, but hitting two out of three pretty damn good. We're going to see if we can do it again this week. And this episode is sponsored by Kalshi, the largest prediction market in the United States. Here's what makes Kalshi different. You are not playing against a house. Kalshi is peer-to-peer trading. You buy a yes or no contract on whether something will happen, and you're trading directly against other users. Think of it like buying or selling a stock. The line isn't set by some algorithm working against you. It moves based on where the money goes.

public opinion sets the price. Right now, Scotty Sheffler is trading at 15% to win the U.S. Open, meaning a $100 trade pays out $629.22 with a correct prediction. And as that probability shifts, you can buy in or out of your position at any time to lock in a profit or cut a loss. Calci is CFTC approved, federally regulated, which is why it is available all across the country, including California and Texas. Download the Calci app and use code. subpar to get $20 when you trade $20.

That's K-A-L-S-H-I-Calshi. Put your money where your prediction is. All right, let's get to predict in this week. The House that Slees built, Colonial Country Club, Charles Schwab Challenge. We've got Ricky Fowler in the field, Justin Thomas, Ludwig Oberg, to name a few. Wyndham Clark, Brooks Kevka, unfortunately, with Drew.

But let's get to it. Let's see if we can stay hot this week. Our first prediction, the guy who's finished top 20 here, I believe the last two Charles Schwab challenges and has been playing some really nice golf. We're going with Ricky Fowler to top 20. Love it.

He's played great here. Like, his game is there. Like, he's, a lot of it's good enough to win right now, and I wouldn't be surprised to see him do it. That would be a hell of a nice kind of, you know, I don't want to say closing to his grip, but it's been a long time and to see him get back in the winter circle.

He's been close. And I love that pick at top 20. Where are we going on top 10? All right. putting statistically has been very important around colonial and not many roll the rock better than this man right here give us by the way he also wears a hogan hat at hogan's alley harry hall top ten that's right that's right that's an omen kid can roll the ball he's sneaky like one of the most underrated i mean he was like in conversations for the last european rider rider cup team like but he gets no i feel like no one ever talks about him but his game solidness a good golf course for him as well so he's So that's our top 10 bet. And then going down for our winner, BG, not the longest golf course. This should be a perfect course setup for this guy.

He is first on the PJ tour and driving accuracy. First in scrambling when he does misogreen. He's a great iron player. And when the putter gets going, it can really get going. Russell Henley as our winner this week at Colonial. I love it. He'd look good in that plaid jacket. Be so nice.

It'd be so nice. I'm curious to see what, like, the setup looks like on that golf course. I love this course. I got a soft spot for it in my heart. I hope it's firm and bouncy. see no rain comes in. It doesn't look like there's going to be a lot of wind. And if there's not a lot of wind,

they'll probably end up getting out for the place pretty good. Yeah, scores will probably be pretty low as they are every week on the PGA tour. But it's going to be a lot of fun out there to be on the coverage. And one of the staples on the PGA tour schedule, 80th plane, all at Colonial. That's beautiful, beautiful. I'd love to see this Dallas-Fort Worth get a signature event. And if I had a guess right now, Colonial would probably be my betting favorite of that, given the state of the Byron Nelson.

but deserves it. Great golf town. Well, I think we're just going to have to sit back and wait and see. Sleeve there's been some rumblings, but nothing official as of yet. It is good to be in Caltown, Fort Worth, your old stomping grounds. I still can't believe you went to school here. I just don't see you in boots, jeans, and boots, wranglers, and a cowboy hat. That's because I wasn't in that, but I was still there, getting after it.

You got a good week out of your stand down there in the stockyards. You got Joe T's right around the corner. Billy Bob. you're taking Wagyu to Billy Bob, so you're going to be a pig and shit at Billy Bob? I have a special week. I'm like just rolling out the red carpet for Wagyu everywhere we go. How about this? Thursday.

I'm not going to name the golf course because I don't want a lot of people to show up, but we might be in a little over our head with our group on Thursday. Okay. Me, Wagyu, Jordan Speath, Scottie Sheffler, C. Wu Kim. Sheking that ass. What's the game? Little five ball. What are we going to do?

Well, I'm terrified to open this right now. I might get on Kalshi and get a little piece of this. I'm terrified to open this and I'm not going soon after we're done, but I just got our group, I started us a group text and there's a picture from the gym and Siwu is doing something and I'm terrified to see what it is, but it said getting dialed. So we'll see. And if it's appropriate, I'll share it with you.

They get to witness. They get to witness more importantly of the Wagyu show. Yes, they do. special show special ticket to get that's Thursday Friday night Billy Bob's Dylan Scott, country music star is performing so I'm going to take Wagyu over to the biggest honky talk in all the land send video

I can already envision exactly how it's going to go but he's going to love you can't not love Billy Bob's but Wagyu gets in his gets in his zone like he likes to get he's going to have hell of a good time I'm jealous man I'm jealous I wish I was down there for this week my caddy and days are behind me it's going to be a week it's going to be a lot of

fun. Can't wait for the Charles Schwab challenge to get going. Let's get to our guests, though, because I think without her, none of this would be possible for Wyndham Clark. And the timing was just ridiculous. But she is a mental coach to a number of PGA tour players, other athletes, CEOs, you name it. She has done it all. And she also has a new bookout called Mastering Your Mental Game. But the great Julie Elion will join us right here on subpar. All right, it is time to welcome in our guests this week who represents over 500 million in career earnings, 152 her wins, 25 major championships over her career. She's the architect of the mental game for some of the best in sports and business. And now, author of her new book, Mastering Your Mental Game, the very well-respected Julie Elion joins us.

Julie, it is truly a pleasure to have you. Pleasure to be with you both. I just realized, though, sorry, Colt, see. Go ahead. I'm used to getting interrupted. I think that tour earning thing and amount of major thing, I think, for 25 years. Like the same amount. Oh, really?

I better change it. Oh, yeah. So it hasn't been getting updated. Yeah, you got to update that. You're probably pushing a billion now with the way the purses are. That's right. I love it. Julie, well, we go back a long time.

Always good to catch up. with you. You're one of my favorites out there. Congratulations, one on the book, and also, I know one of your guys, Wyndham Clark, on that massive win after what's been a little bit of a tough stretch for him the last year or so. Yes, yes. We could have had him on here. He's, he's pretty good at talking about it. Yeah. Well, talk us a little about through that, because we'll get to the book, but this win yesterday, like I said, I know how far he's come, how hard y'all have worked. But what's the last year been like? And would you say the win yesterday was like one of the most special to you just because of how far he's come?

You know, I get pretty choked up. I got choked up like that mud ball on nine, like I'm getting choked up. I was riveted because I was so hoping he could look at it the right way. And he's worked really hard to do that. And he looked so good. It wasn't that I was doubting him, but it was those moments that we have focused on. Like how to use everything to get better for your advancement and to learn from instead of why did this happen to me. Like I had heard many times, like, I always get like roll into the divot or I get the bad lie.

So I was teetering, and he was amazing. He was so amazing. I'm really proud of him because he really does the work. I'm just reminding him. I can tell you this. He speaks incredibly highly of you, Julie, and has for a number of years now. And like, I've heard your name for so long, but I feel like for a while you're like the Kaiser Soze of golf. Like you hear the name, but you never see you.

You know, you have the nickname Stealth. And now you've come out with the book. What made the timing right now to kind of go public and talk about your president? practices? I'm still not totally comfortable. You know, I've said to my good friends lately, like, maybe I should go back to stealth. Also, I would say two back surgeries laid me up for a year, so it was a good time to finally write a book I talked about for 20 years.

And last week, I did the audiobook, so every word and every chosen word. And it's just been quite a journey, and I'm proud of my hard work. And the book is really just how to figure out how to tell stories without telling a lot of names, saying a lot of names. I say a few names with their permission. But it was really, I realized I had created a toolbox. And they work. Mostly, not always. So it was pretty cool to just do the process and get it down and really focus on for me on what it's really come down to, some specific things that I always have my clients do or want them to do.

So the book demonstrates that. And you work with so many different people, whether it's business executives, other athletes, but you've really been drawn to golf. Why would you say that is? That's a great question. I mean, I love the game personally. I'm not that good, but I love this idea of trying to improve my own game. And I love the metaphor to life. Like, we could talk all day about that, but we all know what that is, I think.

And really, truly, 25 years ago, a professional golfer came to me for marriage counseling. And that's how it all. started. Yep. And he actually would fly into DC with his wife and they got better, took us, took some work. They're both professionals. And he liked the work so much. He invited me to the John Deere 20 something years ago. I'm not going to say much more because I'm not going to say it is. And he won. So don't count because I'm probably really off with the numbers. But, and it was a fluky one. I swear it was a fluke.

But he said, you know what? Why not I pay you for like a year? And I said, okay, that sounds like a great idea. And then actually I went back to do my doctorate work in sports and anxiety and focusing and all the things and all the tools and all the science that was starting to back up what people have known for a long time. So that's really how it started. and he had a best friend that was top 10 in the world.

And that's really how it happened. We got people going back on Google right now, checking pass. I know. John Deer winners trying to figure out. It might not have been the John Deere. It was in the Midwest somewhere. Okay. There you go.

Now that makes it a little trickier. Well, let's get into the actual practices like a little bit, Julie, because when a golfer reaches out to you for the first time, I would assume things aren't going great at the moment. Otherwise, he wouldn't be seeking your services, right? So what are some of the most common things you hear from them in that first session? And what are your first steps with these guys? So my first piece of homework is tell me 10 things you're really great at mentally.

And then tell me 10 things you want to improve on mentally. And I just really heard your question. Like they reach out when they're not doing well. That seems so obvious. But a lot of you reach out are already big time champions. They're just, you know, maybe have slipped a little bit, but that's, I always say progress isn't in a straight line. So these are men and women that have really excelled already sometimes. They're just, they're not having as much fun.

Home life is not good. Just all the things that kind of are in all of our lives. So, and I have wonderful colleagues that, as you guys know, that are probably much more performance-based. which I do too, but I just think it starts deeper than that. At least I'm more interested in that. So, you know, if someone's choosing me, I think they, at this point, they probably know that, which is probably why I used to hide behind trees because there was a stigma of that, you know, 25 years ago.

There still is slightly, but I mean, I remember a few years ago, someone said, you're a marriage council, right? Well, I just told that story, but I'm not a marriage. counselor. So, but the stigma, I have a chapter in the book about stigma because there's still, when I'm standing on that range, I can feel it, you know, I don't think I'm making it up. It's still, and some people really don't want me standing on the range. And some people really just don't give a crap at all. So I'm curious that because sometimes you do see you on the range. I remember like U.S. Open at L.A. Country Club.

You were there every step of the way. Yes. Sometimes, like other clients that you work with, you're not there. How often are you speaking to your guys? Like, is it something before every final round, you're at least on a phone call with these guys? I would say every round, Thursday through. And usually Monday, Tuesday is kind of the longer, FaceTime, less golf, maybe. and then we get more golf-centric,

and I would say either a text or a quick call every round before and after. Just are you staying with your goals, what did you feel today? It could be talking to the caddy as well. So, and some people really like me standing there. They kind of, you know, sometimes if I'm watching a player and I'm walking around,

and I can see they're not, having a great time. I'll just kind of show my face to remind them of what they were trying to do mentally. That's it. I can't say anything. So I just show my face. Yeah. And in talking with Wyndham, one of the things that he says really helped him is like, I believe it's called daily mental goals that he texts you everything. I don't know if it's just tournament days or what, but like here's my goals for today. And he texts those to you. And that's like part of his responsibility to you. Can you talk about those and maybe give some examples of what those are for people that are listening? So I think Wyndham will forgive me, especially today, two days later, but we switch it from

daily goals to mission statements because we just need to shake it up. But what started to happen is those morph back into daily goals. So I would say, well, how do you do today? And what are you trying to accomplish mentally today. So the mission statement was kind of a little more global, but every one of my clients, not everyone, but pretty much everyone, sticks to a protocol of what am I trying to feel today? And it might be confidence, it might be free, it might be no leaderboards, it might be, I don't like who I'm playing with, and I'm not going to bother me. It could be anything, but like I said earlier, I just try to stay on them to make sure they're paying attention, not to just technical. Before we get back to Julie, a quick note from the USGA.

Your ball moved on the green and your group disagrees on the ruling. Now what? Learn the rules anytime, anywhere with Rules 101, a free online course from the experts at the USGA. Get started today at usGA.org slash rules 101. Now, back to Julie. Yeah. And one thing I think, especially in social media nowadays, where there's so many critics out there, Julie, you know, I always say be careful of hating on players because you never

know what's going on off the golf course. How tough is that for you? And like what do you do? And like a player is really struggling off the golf course with something that has nothing to do with how he's playing. But how do you get that person ready to go out there and do their job? So that's pretty much what the goals are for to remind them that, you know, we all have to go to work. Well, not all of us, but, you know, and function at a high level.

And I think the goals help them put them, God forbid I say zone, but just remind them of what they're good at no matter what. And, you know, if they have to repeat something like that a hundred times in a round to just get them present and not be thinking about something at home, but, you know, life happens and people get sick. And, you know, there's all sorts of things, just like you said, Colt. And it's, you know, I know a lot of all that stuff and I carry a lot of that stuff. and that's why I'm a little anxious about even writing the book or talking because it's all confidential until they talk. So it's a lot. And it's a great question because there are people too. And life can be her.

Yeah, there's a lot going on. It's not always necessarily just on the golf course. But when they are on the golf course, Julie, I think golfers as a whole, at least from what I've seen, are probably their own toughest critics of any sport or profession that I can think of. Guys are so hard on themselves when they're not playing good golf. How do you deal with that? Or how do you get some of these players to kind of pull off of that when it's been something that they've done probably since they started playing professional golf?

So if they've reached up to me, that's right. They probably are pretty hard on themselves. And yet everyone's different. So that's like I don't feel I can say the same thing. to everybody. And if somebody's pissed off on Sunday because they don't like how they played on Saturday and that gets them going, that's great. You know, so I don't want to, I don't want to like diminish that or take that away. So that's kind of what I mean. Everybody's an individual. I don't even know if I answer your question. How do I do that? Well, you guys are probably hard

on yourself, okay, and Colt, without getting personal. Like, you were, you were when I used to watch you play golf, so impressive. I remember coming up to you and saying, who are you? It's a good question. Yeah, we walked at Baltistral at the PJ Championship. That's right, that's right. I just was so impressed with your mental game. Like, I just felt, yeah, was it Belcestroth?

when Jimmy won? Yeah. Oh, wow. Okay, I just remember feeling like you were able, and maybe you fooled me, but compartmentalized. Like, you seemed so present and were able to swing back there. I was very impressed and learned a lot from you. No joke.

Thank you. That's the first. Well, by God. Yeah, I don't. Honestly, look, I mean, it's different. I mean, I'm a guy that's, you know, not blessed with the skills that a lot of those other guys are out there. I don't hit at 3.30 and it can overpower golf courses.

And I think you have to be strong mentally to be able to compete out there with the game that I had on the golf course. Well, we all know like Augusta, you know, I know we all know people have won that aren't those long hitters that are just so crafty. And it's also just so fun to watch, right? Like, I mean, I'm, I can not not watch. even I have nobody in the game. I can't not watch. That's what I was curious about because obviously you have your clients, which you are focused on,

but you're a golf fan as well, and I'm sure you watch others and you can learn a lot from them. Like, Scotty Sheffler is about as strong mentally, as you can see. Like, what do you notice with him when he's out there competing weekend and week out? So I've talked to Teddy more than Scotty. I just told a story about Scotty that I guess

just a great story about how he's such a great guy. I told it the other day on something, so I won't repeat that, but he's just, at least to me, and he's human, and he's got dark moments, I'm sure, but he's such a gem of a guy. But when I've walked with him on practice rounds or he's playing with one of my clients, he reminds, here we go, I'm really not trying to butter you up, but he kind of reminds me of you that way. Like he seems, freaking so into it and his ability to just, he's such a competitor. So I just think there's like an on-off persona about him.

And I really can't totally speak to it because I really don't know him that well. But the few interactions I've had, he's just been a gem of a guy. And I've had clients say, oh, yes, guy wants to kill you out there. So I don't know. These are all probably things everybody says about them. I taught him well. You did. There's a lot of parallels between Colton Scottie.

I've always said that. I've always said it. But it kind of leads to my next question, Julie, like, let's say you're a sports fan. You work with people in all different sports. You're watching somebody that really impresses you with the way they handle a tough situation or just the way they go about their business every single time. They're on the court or on the field, whatever. How often, if ever, do you reach out to the – they might – and they're not clients of

but you're just curious in like their process what they do do do you reach out and like kind of try to pick information from some of these people that you watch colts the only one i'm sorry i think she's still on the payroll she's still on the payroll this wasn't supposed to happen that will be the last thing i say i mean on instagram i mean i watch erin ryan the golf channel this morning because i was just so curious and everyone says he's the nicest guy and i'll on social media I'll say something, but I don't think I've ever reached out to somebody, ever. Because that's what I said to you at the beginning of Slee's, like, you have to want it. Like, it doesn't matter if I reach out to anybody.

They, because you have to say, oh, I really, like anything, you want to get better. And there's tons of people play golf and got ruined their Saturdays because they don't play well. but either go have fun or work at it, but don't ruin your Saturdays and come home and come home in a bad mood. That's terrible. And Julie, I feel like I think a lot when people think a sports psychologist or performance coaches, whatever it is, like they always trying to get their players. This isn't actually true, but I think the people at home think you're just trying to get these players to flatline and be just chill and not overreact, not underreact, whatever it is. But then you got guys like, I use Terrell Hatton as an example, who's a ticking time bomb out there. Tom Brady, when he's a quarterback.

I mean, he would lose his mind out there on his teammates and players because he's firing. But that's what gets them going. That's how they are as people. Do you try to change that? Like Terle Hatton says if I was trying to be calm and flatline like a Patrick Cantley, I would shoot a million. I would never try to change that ever. I mean, if it's bothering them or, but like I said, on some, Sunday, I had someone who played, they don't like how they played Saturday.

So, you know, but that kind of natural kind of drive, I'm actually trying to bring that out. I would never want to squash that unless they say to me it's a problem. I'm actually trying to bring out their natural characteristics that went. One of the next things we talk about is when you're. playing your best, what do you like? You know, I mean, and you can't, after a while I'm talking to me, you can't really lie because I know you pretty well. But at first, I'm sure I'm not getting the whole truth. So that's why I do a year-long retainer because it takes life. But even in training, you know, in the psychology world, we know we're not getting the whole truth. So, but that's, it,

It's more about helping them be truthful with themselves, I guess I would say. So if there's something in a guy's DNA like Colemaneteral Hatten can't be like Patrick can't, you don't try to like change that and be like, no, you don't try to get them to go away from kind of what their, I guess, DNA, for lack of a better word is. They're both fascinating to me. I love watching both of them. Like they're specimens to me. Like what's going on there?

And yeah, I would not change that unless they just, like I said, they're feeling like they're not being them, their best selves. So, or competing at their highest level. So what's holding them back? And I don't pretend to know, like I'm not one to say, this is what's holding you back. I try to, I always say I'm holding up a mirror. Like, I'm not one to spit out facts or slogans. I mean, sometimes I do, but it's really, I'm holding up a mirror for them to figure that out, if that makes sense. How do you deal with players?

I'd use like J.J. Spahn or like a Ben Griffin just for recency bias. Like J.J. Spahn and Ben Griffin both had career-changing years last year. Ben winning three times, being on a Ryder Cup team. J.J. Spahn wins a major championship. And I'd say for the most part, like 2026, until JJ won, like it was a down year. And he was struggling to deal with those. those new expectations. What kind of advice do you give?

Because I would say going into 2025, both guys were kind of like, okay, we are who we are. We're just going to play and see what happens and do our best. But now it's like, oh, God, we're top 10 players in the world. We have to live up to that. Well, it's probably not that different than Wyndham in 2023. And from my point of view, his world got so big and complicated and in great ways, too. sponsors and chit-chat and just media. And so it was helping to manage that.

But I don't think that's always so easy to manage all that. And so, you know, but like I said, everybody's different. You know, I don't know either of them that well. I know them a little bit. And I remember saying something to Ben, something like, where were we? Oh, my God. Oh my God, oh my God, a major. I said something to him, like he was grumpy or something.

I went up to, you okay? Like, I just said that I never go up to somebody, but I remember saying something to him. And he said, it's not mental. It's done. And literally it was like right before that. So I don't know. Yeah.

But he was like prepared for his golf to open up in some way, I think. Like he knew he, I don't know what he'd say now, but he looked like he knew he had something. And that's great. Love that confidence. Nope, he was right. He was right about that. And Julie, like with all the players now on tour, they got swing coaches, fitness coaches, short game, putting coaches, all the stuff. Like, do you have to, your approach being like so holistic, do you have to communicate with all these people to make sure kind of everything's on the same page?

And when they're with their swing coach, they don't completely abort all the stuff you've been talking about and vice versa. Some teams, some of our teams work much closer than others. Like, I think every team probably has a group text going. Yeah, so, I mean, it just depends how talkative a client is. Like, I might hear from a physio that something's going on in their back or their hip that I wasn't told. about. So that's really helpful to know. But I'm still sticking to my lane as much as possible. But you know if somebody's not working hard enough and I find out later it's because they're a hip sore after every time they hit balls for five hours, then that is important for me to know

because then I think they're just like being lazy, right? Because you kind of work really hard. So it is really important that the team communicates with each other. The agents often really believe they are doing what I do. Yeah. But in some ways a very good way because they're very caretaking. So there is a very caretaking part of me. And I'm trained to dig deeper too. So it works much better to me if we work as a team because it's just more information the better. So if I hear something's going on, that I didn't even know about with a sponsor. It is really important that I know those things. Are you at a point with like any player? It's just like, hey, listen, something's bottled up in there. I know so if you need to vent, just let it, like you're okay for them just to take it all out on you?

Or is that just talking? Oh, my God, yeah. I mean, I actually often say I'm your girl because I'm not going to take it personally. Okay. You know, I'm not always perfect that way, but I want them to practice telling the truth or venting or being emotional or letting me go because that's taking a stand. Like, I want them to be their best selves. So, you know, I'm sure 20 years ago I was crushed if they let me go. And I can still feel that pain.

But my job is about making them better. So if it's not working or they really need a placed event that they can't do at home or certainly on the golf course, they can absolutely use me that way. And it sounds like, Julie, like you're a sports psychologist, but it sounds like a lot of what you do involves, like, more of the stuff off the course and like getting that all in a good space so that when they are on the course, they can do the things that make them great, rather than like you only focus on mental mindset on the golf course.

So, you know, I talk about this all the time. First of all, I can't call myself a psychologist. Different states have different licensing, schooling, all that. So I say performance coach or mental coach. So I feel like I'm practicing psychology because I'm, I'm trying to get the best of them, so it's not just off the course. It's like, let's say somebody's just so not being aggressive or assertive enough on the golf course. And they just really don't know how to do that at home and they don't know do it on the golf course.

Then it's like all that. Or they don't treat themselves well or they drink too much or they, like there's a lot. so many things about taking care of yourself and so many layers of being a professional golfer that golf is the metaphor to how we help. I try to help them be their best selves both on and off. But it's both. I have to say it's both. It's just it's performance, but it's also, you know, digging deep and trying to figure out what's really going on and why the losing focus or why they're tired or any of it. This is one I think could help the people at home quite a bit because, you know,

I've been one of those guys like I'm sure a lot of your players have as well, but just the average guy at home who can go out there on the driving range and he's warming up, hitting balls, practicing, and he stripes it, doesn't miss hit, miss a shot. Then he goes, oh, it's always, I can't take it to the golf course. And I've seen so many players, me being one getting mad at Randy Smith, whoever it is, like something's going on. I can't take it to the course. well, it's not physical, in my opinion.

It's obviously something mental. What kind of advice would you say to a player? Because I think a lot of people at home, they're probably 90 shooters, hit it like an 80 shooter on the range, but then they have a mental breakdown on the golf course. So technically, we all know different lives, the golf course is a completely different animal than a range, right?

And we're swinging and hitting to different flags on a range. It's much more measured. But that's where the goals come from. For that walk from the range to the first T, I hope they're using all their hard work with me and those people listening, like, dig deep and try to figure out what is your best competitive state and then choose a few goals.

This might seem woo-wooed to a lot of people, but let's say that walk from the range of the first T, like, I hear this all the time. I'm not sure I prepped enough for this week. I didn't work hard enough. I hear that all the time. But going up to that first T, you are who you are and be present with it. And if you can keep repeating something about how you want to feel and go with that, I think that's going to serve. you better than getting angry that that first drive hooked or you didn't expect it.

And I have a lot of, I have a lot of people of the years who have first tea jitters from pros to myself, okay? So I try to help prepare mentally knowing that you might feel that and then how are you to respond to that. So you're already prepared that those feelings are coming up. Okay, so how are you going to deal with them? So we do work off the course to prepare for that moment. You mentioned the first T. Jitter. I mean, arguably the greatest player of all time. Tiger Woods was horrendous on the first home. Right. Nervous. I mean, I think he said, well, I don't know if he used that word. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I did something with a player. No names here. But

just really had a hard time, even in proams, like those guys are paying a lot of money to play, and just like really felt it on the first T of a proane. So his homework last week or a couple weeks ago was to intentionally hit a bad shot. Oh, yeah. Intentionally hit it in the water. And then deal with the feelings. Like the guys were like, oh, you know, and he would like say something. but he had to deal with it.

And then that first tea on Thursday, he couldn't do anything. He was already prepared for the worst that could happen, which was to put it in the water. He knew what it felt like, and he was ready. And it worked. Interesting. Wow.

Yeah. Intentional. But I just knew he was dealing with, shame's a little strong, but embarrassment. Wow. I'd be a hell of a pupil for you, Jill. I could do that time after time after time. Part of my charm.

All right. Julie, I got a philosophical question here. You're the perfect person to ask because I've been in this debate, like a number of times. Let's just take Tiger Woods, Michael Jordan,

Kobe Bryant, Tom Brady, okay? Like the greatest closers or maybe the best clutch performers of all time, some of them, right?

Do these people have some sort of mental trait or something they're born with, like innate that makes them that way? Or is that something like, can you teach people to be, to operate on that level as those guys? My mind went spinning. First of all, I did my thesis on can you teach?

One of them was can you teach empathy? And the other one was can you teach confidence? And, you know, that nature, nurture, we can debate it all day long, but I would say what runs through all of those people and I don't know them that well is a work ethic. Like they just works so hard. And it was so important to improve and then show up knowing that they had worked so hard. Because like I said earlier, I hear a lot.

I didn't prepare enough. But if you really want this, you got to work hard mentally too, right? And I would think all for you mentioned had something special that way. It's interesting, Sleaj just brought that up because I got sent a clip from some random guy on Instagram yesterday. It was about Larry Bird talking about this exact thing. And he was talking about how he was never really like that nervous in like a clutch situation because he knew he did do the work. He put it in. He knew he worked harder than everyone.

When everyone else said, that's enough for a day, I was just getting going. And so he always, he said, I spent hours upon hours and no one worked harder than me. And I was prepared for every moment. If you're not prepared, that's on you. That's huge. And he's probably one of the most confident players ever. I know we always think of Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant in basketball, but like everyone that played against Larry Bird will tell you nobody was cockier than that guy.

And he should have been. And, you know, I get asked a lot by spouses or partners or the clients themselves, am I working hard enough? Like, how do you measure if you're working hard enough? And, you know, there's fights at home about that. Like, he was at the golf course all day. You know, like, but that's what I mean about knowing yourself. Like, do you feel like you're working hard enough?

And what do you compare it to? And I guess what you have to know is when you show up on that first tea, do you feel like you worked hard enough? But because we don't want you to show up for anything like that feeling not as confident as you can. The whole point of the mental game is feel like I've done everything I can for this moment, and that's what I can do. So that actually, this is a question for my friend Sleeves over there. I think a lot of people want to this. Can a player be too confident?

Why is it for Sleaves? Yeah, I don't know. I just talked about how I get hit shitty shots on repeat, but that doesn't sound too confident, does it? He's the guy who famously in the mid-am qualifier, part of the first and started writing his Augusta National Acceptance speech. I still got it scripted. I just got to go win the thing. Can you be too cocky, though? Well, I want to know what happened with that, sleeves.

Just short. Just short, Julie. Wait, what? Just came up short. We would give her another go, though. It's not dead and buried. Okay, you will call me. Too confident.

I think that, I mean, I could name players that have zero interest in talking to me because they don't want to break some image of themselves, and it's working for them. They say, I don't want to dig deep. Throw away your shovel. I don't care. Like, because I got this persona and it's working. Yeah, there's people like that.

And is that false confidence? Not if it's working for them. But is it working at home? I don't know. So that's an interesting question. I can't say it happens that often. Yeah, of course. Yeah, but it's really interesting.

Julie, does what you teach in your practices, is it the same for golf as it is for football as it is for basketball and business? Is it kind of the same principles or do you vary the way you teach based on what the profession is. Oh my gosh. I just think it's almost identical. I mean, I know golf way better than any of those. But my Silicon Valley peeps, I would say the text that I wrote today to some of the golfers on a Tuesday practice round are almost identical.

Like, what do you want to get out of this meeting? How do you want to show up in front of? the board, all that is, we're all human, hopefully trying to be our best selves. So it's pretty, it's pretty similar. Do you work with like, say, say, you know, a weekend golfer that's just trying to get better. Do you work with players like that? I don't anymore, but I've created an amazing, I was saying nicely. I have a great team and I should talk about them. My group is called Cape Center for Athletic Performance Enhancement. And we have a crew of really great coaches,

mental coaches, sports psychologists. And we're trying to put more online so people have access. The book is about access. I love working with college kids. I work with the Howard University, D.C. golf teams, men and women. And I live in D.C. and they're like, sponges and they're so excited to learn these kids.

And I haven't actually talked to them a while, so I'm going to reach out. But it's like even younger. But then I had a father call me a couple months ago. And, you know, my son's seven. And I really think he needs some help. And I said he needed help, the father. Yeah, exactly. My son's seven.

Yeah, he did call that. Yep. He's not seven. Maybe let it be a kid. He's not breaking par yet. Julie, fix him. Yeah, right. Exactly. So and that's a that just brings up enough, you know, parents, I'm trying to unwind a lot of challenging parents in my clients head. I have a lot of great parents in my clients heads, but it's it's amazing how traumatic some parents can be at a very

of age of when someone's trying to be confident. So maybe that's my next book. Or that book's probably already written. But, you know, as parents, I just hope we just try to talk to our kids, push when they need to be pushed, but also be there to listen. I thought it was fascinating just recently, actually, at the PJ Championship, Scotty Sheffler and his press conference. And I never knew this.

And I've known the kids since he was six years old. but he said when he would get picked up from the golf course or a tournament by his mom, she never once asked him what he shot. Oh, I saw that. Yeah. If she. I was like, that is unbelievable because that's not normal for one. It's amazing, but it's just not normal.

But she knew that if he wanted to tell her, he would tell her. Right. And he probably really needed a place to not talk about it. Yeah. And oh my God, I've heard horrible stories too. Just awful. Just terrible stories. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, you got a lot of good stories in your book, and your book helps a lot of people. Where can someone pick your book up at? So it's released next week, June 2nd or 3rd. Audio book will drop then to Amazon, but I like to support our local bookstores too. And what do they always say? Anywhere these books are sold, if you can. Yep, there you go.

I had a great teamwork with me at Simon Schuster. They've just been amazing. Barry Svier Lugo, he was amazing. Such a great partner in this. And I just, I feel like I scored. I love it. We can't wait to read it. Slead, you got anything else?

Great performance coach. Great sales skills as well, Julie. Well done. Oh, that's good. Well done. But you might have to cut some of that stuff, I said. Yeah, keep your phone on. I got, if you ready for the challenge of your career,

you can go fix what's going on up here. And this brain right here, then you get a medal of honor after this. So stand by. We'll meet. And then I'll hold you to it. God bless you. I'm like a challenge. Dig it, girl.

It's coming. You're about to hear some dark, some dark shit, Julie. I love it. Julie, thank you so much. Thanks, guys. Thank you, Julie. Appreciate you. See you soon.

Bye. Bye, thank you. All right, that was Julie Elion, joining us there on subpar. Make sure you go check out her book, Mastering Your Mental Game Audio. book available as well. But slaves, I've known her for a long time. She's awesome. Love talking to her. Didn't know she was going to hype me up as much as he did.

I don't know what I told her that day, but apparently it was very convincing. She's one of the most well-respected sports I call it's cool because like her name has been stealth. Like you hear her name. I heard her name years ago and then Windham starts working with her and like turning the corner and all these guys, you start learning about who she works with and I'm like, God, this chick's the bat. Like she's got to be the best in the business.

Then she goes like, you know, Colt, you and Scotty remind me if he just other this way and I'm like Jesus Christ. Well, throw it all out the window. Maybe not quite as sharp as I thought, but I'm joking. She's fantastic. What she's done for not just Windham, but a number of players. Like it's, she mentioned it like 25 years ago when she got started a quote like sports psychology, oh, you work with a sports psych like, oh, you're a mental midget or like you don't have, you know what I mean? It was like viewed as a weakness more or less or something's wrong with you. You know what I mean? And then now fast forward to modern day, like I bet the vast majority of the it's almost just like oh you got a fitness coach oh you got a swing coach

it's like oh yeah i have a mental coach as well and she's been i mean she deserves a lot of credit because she's really turned things around and windham's really the only one i can speak to like personally having seen it and what we're going through and at the early innings when he was first getting started with her it's uh completely changed the way he's been out there and then to kind of ascend the way it did fall back down have some struggles on and off the course and now to get back um it's it's been a cool thing to see but she's spectacular and i bet this got a bunch of stuff that can help the average guy out there. Maybe she could help you trade in those silver medals for some gold ones.

God, I'm happy to pay her. A tradition, unlike any other, another heart-wrenching, soul-crushing loss at the four-ball, BG, extra holes. They made a birdie. I'll spare you all the details. They make birdie. Thank you. I miss a seven-footer for Bertie that I thought was going to be to win it. Turns out it wasn't.

It was to extend. they go on to hoisted trophy. So shout out to them. Grady Brame, Lawrence Allen, man. They were held squad from down there in the bayou, down in Louisiana. And they're real like mid-ams. Like, we played some, you know, young kids in the first round. It's nice to see some guys that, you know, work for a living, used to play.

The true mid-ams win that thing. So shout out to them. They were rock-solid. You're like the Cowboys and the Longhorns. The next year's y'all's year. Yeah, similar to that. Yeah. All right. Well, that was fine. Congrats to Wyndham Clark. And once again, RIP, Kyle Bush, man. We love you. That was heartbreaking, man. Thoughts and prayers to the whole Bush family and all his friends. That's going to do it for us, though. But we'll talk to you on next week's subpar.