Subpar - USGA CEO Mike Whan talks the elite venues hosting their Championships this year and the impact of the U.S. National Development program

Episode Date: April 1, 2025

On this week's episode of GOLF's Subpar, Colt Knost and Drew Stoltz are joined by USGA CEO Mike Whan for an exclusive interview. The former commissioner of the LPGA talks the many initiatives they have in place for the start of the recreational golf season, what venues he is most excited to have hosting their Championships and why creating the U.S. National Development Program was so important.--Join us at The Bank, Hilton Head’s Beer Garden, for Subpar Live on Wednesday, April 16, at 6 PM EST. Enjoy a night of golf, laughs, and good times with drink specials, giveaways, and more. Whether you’re a PGA Tour caddie, a fan, or in town for RBC Heritage, this is the place to be. Presented by Zone.--Make sure you enter the Golden Bear(™) Sweepstakes between March 27th - April 13th with Fanatics Sportsbook for your chance to win a pin flag signed by Jack Nicklaus. Gambling Problem? See Official Rules at https://sportsbook.fanatics.com/promo-terms/2025/Sweepstakes/ALL_1878.pdf . Sponsor: FBG Enterprises Opco, LLC. Not sponsored, endorsed by or affiliated with Augusta National, Inc.⁠https://www.joinfanatics.com/subpar-signed-flag-sweepstakes/⁠GAMBLING PROBLEM? CALL 1-800-GAMBLER, Connecticut residents call [phone],  Massachusetts residents call (800)-327-5050, New York residents call (877) 8-HOPENY, Maryland residents visit ⁠mdgamblinghelp.org⁠. --Thank you to our partners at Ship Sticks.  Skip airport stress and costly airline fees with complimentary insurance, real-time tracking, dedicated support, and on-time delivery.  Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠shipsticks.com⁠⁠⁠⁠ and use the code SUBPAR20 to enjoy 20% off your first shipment.--Thank you to our partners at Callaway. The #1 putter on every major Tour—PGA, LPGA, DP World—you name it. More Tour Pros trust Odyssey than any other brand, and it shows with #1 rankings in worldwide wins and money earned. See what it can do for you at⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ OdysseyGolf.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.--Choose your style, pick your favorite Birdie Juice logo and shop from a line-up of top tier brands at ⁠⁠⁠⁠shop.golf.com⁠⁠⁠⁠ today!

Hello world. Welcome back to golf subpar with Colt Nost and Drew Stoltz. The Texas Children's Houston Open was rather exciting. And we got a very, very bright star who picked up his first win on the PGA tour. Menwu Lee hoisted the trophy down in Houston. But first, before we break that all down, Slee, some very exciting news. We are heading to Hilton Head, South Carolina for the RBC Heritage. And you can join us in Zone at the Bank Hilton Head's Beer Garden for a special night of golf, laughs, and good times. It's subpar live at the bank happening Wednesday, April 16th at 6 p.m. Eastern on Hilton Head Island. We'll be recording subpar live with all of you. Plus, there'll be drink specials, giveaways, and more. Whether you're a PJ tour or caddy, a fan, or just in town for the RBC Heritage,

this is the place to be, presented by Zone and set in the perfect spot to kick back. Hilton Head's Beer Garden, don't miss it. Also, quite possibly a very special guest joining us for that live show. Quite possibly. We'll have some drinks. We're going to have some zone. talk a little golf, but more is the following need. And there's also a golf course about every block out there in Hilton Head.

And we're going to be taking our clubs with the sleighs, but we're not taking them to the airport. I ain't bringing them down to Sky Harbor. I'll tell you that. We're going to be using one of the best partners in golf. Our boys from shipsticks, you've heard us talk about it. We're using them the coming weeks for the RBC. You just schedule the shipment, slap a label on it, let your club handle it, let your public close handle it. They'll pick them up at your house.

No more lugging bags through the airport. Gear goes straight there. Boom, it's done. All the airlines charge now for bags. The days of free bags will be gone for forever, but we use it every time. And honestly, I don't think I'll ever not use it. Well, if you do use it, make sure you use our special code. Of course.

Right now, Shipsticks is offering our listeners 20% off your first shipment. When you go to Shipsticks.com, use the code subpar 20. Go to Shipsticks.com and use the code subpar 20 to get 20% off your first shipment and save yourself the hassle this golf season. That's S-H-I-P-S-T-K-S dot com. Make sure you use the code. code subpar 20 so they know we sent you, use it yourself, give it to your friends, change the way you travel, period.

No other way to travel with your sticks. No brain. Ship sticks. All right, let's get to the Texas Children's Houston Open. Menwooli. We've been waiting on him to hoist a trophy, and he did it. An awesome week for him shooting 20 under par. Shot 64, 63 on Friday and Saturday to separate himself a little bit, had a four-shot lead heading

into Sunday and held on for a one-shot win over Gary Woodland, which, listen, I know Men-Wil was the story, but 1B was Gary Woodland and his incredible performance. His first top 10 since Vegas in 2024, his first top five in six years, I believe, with everything he's gone through, just an incredible story. He tied with Scotty Schephler

for second, but a final round 62 from Gary, that was freaking awesome, man. Good to see him back. Now, just looking good, or feeling good, but now playing good as well. He's sent something out on Instagram afterwards. So, like, second place never felt so good. It's been a long haul. I think his perspective, just

being back playing on the PGA tour in general, it's probably something, like, I know he doesn't take for granted anymore, but with all the work he's put in, all the rehab, all the stuff that he's done to, like, actually see some good results coming. That's cool. And by the way, this week in San Antonio, don't be surprised if he plays well again. The guy can fight it down just about as well as as anyone. And then Minwu, the kind of the guy we've been waiting on, huge personality. I think he really shined in TGL this year, but, I mean, could you pick a better spot for Minwoo? I mean, he was just shipping it, especially on Sunday. He did not drive it straight, and he had a few weirdos out there, but he's moving at one 94 mile an hour ball speed more or less. You know, you can miss it

around that place. He let it loose. And for the first three rounds, by the way, he wasn't just hitting at the hardest. He was number one strokes game putting too. You put those together on a golf course like that. He can be tough to beat. He had that Odyssey putter rolling, but I will say this is nothing to take away from Enwoolie. Like this kid is a star. He is great for the game of golf. He's got an awesome personality, a little aim point from six inches on the line. Last was great. But love that he got the win. But I will tell you this.

I have a big problem with the setup of this golf course. Okay? It's awesome that it's a public golf course. It's right in the middle of Houston. Houston residents can play it for $38. It's $140 if you're not. It's a good golf course. But they try to set it up like Augustine National.

And in my opinion, it's not the greatest move. It makes, it's not entertaining, I would say. It doesn't test the best players in the world. I have a big problem when you can just stand up on pretty much. every single T and hit it as hard as you want, and there is no penalty. Other than the water on 16, and as Kevin Kisner said on the broadcast, when he hit it way right on 8, almost out of bounds, he's like, about the only place you could take and unplayable.

You kind of found the only two spots where you can mess it up. I just, like 18. How boring of a hole is that? I mean, you just, it's 490 yards. You step up, you hit it as hard as you can. There's nothing out there. And I understand, like I said, they're setting it up like August National, the no rough, growing the fairways back into you.

the greens, you couldn't get them crazy fast or anything because of the weather they had. But the difference with Augustin National is when you do miss the fairway, and there is that little rough, there are trees in the way. Here, there is nothing in the way. Like, there's nothing going to stop you from hitting the green from a way where T shot. And I just don't think that tests the best players in the world. I know they had the rain, so the greens were soft. I do like how their greens have all these runoff areas and not many green side bunkers

because the designer said greenside bunkers are easy for tour players. but when you have no rough and you can control the ball, I mean, we saw Scotty Sheffler to drive her off the deck from the rough on Sunday. Rough in open air quotes here. It's nothing. It's nothing. But I'm just saying the challenge of that golf course is supposed to be the greens and all the runoff areas. But when the greens are so soft and there's no rough, you can control your spin.

Players are just going to continue to hit greens no matter where they hit their T shot. And I just, it's just not my favorite thing to watch on the PGA tour. Well, nor is it mine. Like, we get on here every week, but like, how do we make it harder? You got to grow up some rough. You got to have firm greens. and this course doesn't have either. In their defense, they're in a tough spot on the schedule.

They want to entice players to play. They got Scotty and Rory there this week. They want to make it mimic Augusta as much as possible. But there's no courses that can really do that. You can try to do it, but you just can't. I mean, to your point, Minwu and Gary Woodland, where their two T-shots were on the 18th hole, were probably 70 yards away.

And both of them were wide open. It's just, it's not necessarily set up, I wouldn't say, because the only thing you could change and set up. Yeah, you could firm the greens up a little, but they couldn't get that this week, obviously, with the weather. Like you said, and you can grow some roughup, but guys are still going to do the exact same thing, hit as hard as they possibly can, and they're still going to probably hit greens, even if there's a little bit of rough.

It's just that that golf course is kind of, I mean, it is what it is, unless they can go in there and plant a million trees and make it tighter and stuff. I mean, dude, it's $38. For people in Houston to play, like, where are they getting their money from? I don't know if the city's going to subsidize. Oh, you want to make your golf course harder? Here's millions and millions of dollars. It's just kind of the way it is, and I think they're trying to have an identity at a tournament

that's moved around, by the way, on a place in the schedule that's tough. Yeah, and when it was at Redstone before, they had it set up the same way. But Redstone has water everywhere. It has shit everywhere that you can make some big numbers, and I just don't see that out at Memorial Park. It's unfortunate, but the golf course is beautiful.

It's set up awesome. It's just not a great test for the best players in the world, in my opinion. I like players to get punished a little bit when they hit it offline. You think of other tournaments where they set it up similar to this, like where we're going. to the RBC Heritage. Awesome. Super narrow, no rough, hardly at all,

but the ball runs into the trees. So you can have that kind of setup. Here, I just don't think it works. Yeah, you just can't do it. And we're coming off a stretch of golf, like the Florida swing, where it is that. It's hard. You know, Valspar.

That's a bear. You got to drive it straight. TBC, sawgrass, tough. You know, historically PJ National. And then you've gone to this one. It's probably a nice reprieve for those guys. Like, damn, this is nice. I just hit it as hard as I can.

I mean, even Minmo was one of the longest on tour. His ball speed was. up like his average is 189 and he was moving at 193, 194 most of the week. So I think he, I mean, he obviously knew the same thing. Like, there's very few places where I can get in trouble. Although he didn't find it too. What do you think about a little situation early in the game with Toasty, got a little bit Toasty at Minmo. By the way, it did take 30 minutes to play the hole, but some weird shit was going on. It took, I saw today, the official count was it took 12 minutes for him to take a drop. Now, Alej Hunter Toasty has been known to stir the pot of

little bit, dust things up a little bit, maybe not the, you know, most favorite among the players out there. I think that's fair. But I'll say this, I'm a big Min Woo Lee fan. I did think it took entirely too long for him to take that drop and make up his mind. I know he's trying to win a golf tournament and all that. It took a long time. To take 30-something minutes to play a hole is ridiculous.

Now, Toasty going to the rules official, complaining about it. We don't know exactly what he said, but as Bones reported, there was definitely a discussion. he was not happy with how long it took. And there was reports later on that he was like slow playing on purpose a little bit. That's not cool. Bones didn't like it. Bones did not like it at all.

That's not cool. Like you're not out there playing games with other people, especially in the final group when you're trying to win a golf tournament. That was a little inappropriate, in my opinion. But I will say, just to be on Toasty's side a little bit, like the drop took entirely too freaking long. It took forever.

There was a rules official over there. I was like, what are we doing here, guys? Like, you've got a couple options, pick one. You hit it off your knees. realized I was flipping back and forth to basketball at the time. And I was like, they're still on this hole. And by the way, he made par. Yeah.

After all that. He went 41 holes without dropping a shot out there. But yeah, just a little, just a little drama out there, which won't be the last we'll hear from Toasty. Do they had a little situation with Fienow, you know, in the past. Had a little suspension on the corn free tour. He's not afraid to throw his hat in the ring and mix some shit up. He's had some stuff happened to him. There's no doubt.

He is a fiery character. He's freaking good, though. He loves his golf course. Smashes. Pound for pound. Yeah, he's five. One of the longest. By the way, I'm going to give him on credit, too.

On his bio, he's listed at 5-6, so I respect him for being honest. His weight's probably accurate, too. He doesn't know that you can lie on one of them. Yeah, but he does smash it. But I will say the two headliners for the week, Scotty Schaeffler, Rory Macroy, Scotty T2, Rory T5, obviously great news heading into Augusta. Roy McRoy, eight top fives in his last 11 worldwide starts with two wins. He's on a role.

Obviously, I think that's, story one A and one B heading into Augusta. I think if you're Scottie Schaeffer, it's like, not that he ever wants the limelight, but I think going in this year, coming off the injury, having not won leading up to this thing, Rory having won twice for the first time, as much as a guy that's trying to win three out of four, there might be his little kind of pressure and attention around him. I think the Rory hype train is going to be, I mean, just full steam ahead. I would argue that I think this year may be more pressure.

There's always huge pressure on him when he shows up at Augusta, but this year maybe more than ever being like a you know we're past 10 years now since your last one and there's like you're in great form showing up to this thing like you've been doing it week after week for a long time and um yeah it'll be really interesting we god dang if we could get those two close to one another on sunday would that that would be the dream i know they won't do it but if they throw them together yes because obviously scotty sheffler's the defending champion hose by osse lae by astir us salmon champion. Make Rory the third in that one.

Dude, can you add Rory and Jose Le, hitting driver around that place going at it? Foof, that'd be something. It'd be sweet. You're right. They won't do it.

I mean, Gusta doesn't really do stuff, but it would be sweet. But fingers crossed for a weekend with those two. And your hard-pressed come up with a scenario, barring any weather, like one wave, having an advantage where those two aren't relevant on Sunday.

I mean, they're just head and shoulders right now, and they'll forget Xander. I know he's just recently back, too. But, yeah, We're shaping up for a good one. And a lot of guys that are first-time winners and stuff kind of throwing their hat in the ring too.

I'm just going to throw another one at you who's a past champion of the Masters who doesn't play on the PJ Tour anymore. Hasn't finished outside the top 10 since he went to live. I just played with him on Saturday. Yeah. John Rom's game is looking nice. Yeah, I mean, you don't think he's, there's no thinking. I know, like, he's chomping at the bit to kind of get back.

I had to miss the, didn't play well in the majors he played last year. I had to miss U.S. Open with a weird toe injury. Yeah, I think he wants to. to put to bed any thoughts that, you know, oh, he went to live, like he's not tapped in anymore. He may be too, too locked in, but his game is so good right now. So you got it right. Because we played, he's actually dropped a little bit more in the world rankings since we played on Saturday. But at the time, he was 71st in the world and he had a couple shots.

He's pretty good for the 71st ranked player in the world. Top Hyundai, dude. He's now 75th. John, you suck. Get it together. One last great story of the week. golf. We got to go to the PJ Tour Champions. Stevie Allen, stand up. The journeyman of all journeymen. Ozzy won the Australian Open.

22 years ago and four months, that's been the last time he won a pro golf tournament. Lives out here. Dude, he's chased every tour there is. Many tours, Monday qualifiers. He works at a country club. He teaches. He does all this stuff. Finally got his chance last year at 50 to take a crack at Champions Tour. Got his card now a year later.

He's a winner. I mean, I don't know that there's a game. a guy more like we're going to get him in here soon by the way when he gets off this two week stretch but uh i don't know there's more likable guy that was awesome seeing him win that that thing he got in as an alternate when steve stricker withdrew went out there and got the w like you said been over 22 years since he's hoisted a trophy awesome to see stevie allen love that guy funny story so i saw that he won all the sounds i was so happy i'm like oh dude got to send stevia text i go in my phone i have a habit of doing this ship too by the way go up to the

compose, you know, type in Allen, boom, click it. Hey, dude, so happy for you. Congratulations. So well deserved. Like, I'm rooted for a guy that's hard in a long time, blah, well, wait for a little bit. I was like, figure he's get 400 messages. And then like an hour later, it pops up Michael Allen. And he's like, hey, Drew, you never talk to me like this, bud. I assume you meant Stevie. And I was like, yes, good point, Michael. A, we never talk like this to one another. Let's have some drink soon, but B, my bad. And then I went and texted Stevie. It's not as bad as the Jordan Sweet Boo Boo Boo Boo a few years ago. That will never be. surpass, but I got to tighten up a little.

One of the best parts about that story is though is Michael Allen actually finished dead fucking last. I didn't know that, dude, I didn't know that either. Luckily, he played good two weeks ago or something. And also, if there's a guy that couldn't give less of a shit, it wouldn't be offended by anything, is Michael Allen, who, by the way, maybe we need to get back in the house because he was one of the all-time great. Love that guy.

Yeah. Sorry, Mikey. Also, one last thing before we get to our interview with the USGA CEO, Mike Juan, it's member guest week. It is. At the Rock. You got your brother coming in town. I got Brendan Morrow coming in town.

How are we feeling? I heard you played pretty nice the other day. I went out and hit some balls. I showed you. I had a blister. The last like two or three times out weren't great. I was like, you know, we're rounding into member guest season. Four balls around the corner.

Got to start trying. Went out, played my best round. I played in a long time. Shot boge free 64. So I know it's in there. Will I do it again? Who knows? But it was nice to just play a little bit of good golf.

My brother coming in. We normally play the later in the year one. That gives you another three or four weeks, which is big if you're on the East Coast because the weather starts to cooperate. He hadn't played much golf in a while, but yeah, we'll battle. I can tell you that. I don't know what flight will be in, but we'll lead the flight in transfusions consumed, and we'll see how it shakes out again.

Very debatable. You might have your hands full. Maybe in your flight. Yeah, in our flight. Most transfusions are consumed. I don't know. My man can go. BMO?

Yeah. Yeah, he can. And you mentioned that 64 is in there. I can tell you where it's not in the USGA again at. I can tell you where it is in the USGA getting up because I played with our good friend Kevin Stadler I finished, walk straight in needless to say Kevin lost virtually every way

you could lose, walk in, I go to get drinks, sit down at the table, Stads give me, he's like, hey dude, I took the liberty to enter in that 604. I was like, dude, I haven't entered scored in like two years. And he's like, yeah, I saw that. Your last one was in like 20, 3. I have no clue. But it's in there.

I did confirm. He's like, no worry. I got it in there. So that's my only score in the last two years, which I got some high ones. I shouldn't need to go and post it. typing in those scores is tough. It takes like all four seconds.

I know. It's exhausting. Exactly. All right, well, as always, subpar is brought to you by Fanatics. And I tell you what, a weekend in Brazil for pro football, Larry Bird signed merch, VIP trip to the NBA finals. Those are just a few prizes fanatic sports book has given to betters. And the latest, a pin flag signed by Jack Nicholas, the Golden Bear himself.

Bring it home by betting $20 or more on golf between March 27th and April 13th, and you'll get inner to win. One $20 bet is one entry, but one $20 bet on sub-pillar. Par weekly picks counts as two. You can enter 10 times max. Download fanatic sports book to play. Gambling problem, call 1-800 gambler. No purchase necessary. Void where prohibited must be 21 years or older. Starts March 27th ends April 13th. Not available in all states. Terms apply. See Fanatic Sportsbook app. Not sponsored, endorsed by, or affiliated with Augusta National. All right. I may have a gambling problem right now. And not that I'm like overly addicted to it.

It's just that I can't win. Oh, that's that's problem. Is that a problem? Well, I mean. Do I send a text for that or do I just need to like subscribe to somebody who says they know what they're talking about? I suck. Help. Yeah. Who do you got for me? Send me a goddamn winner one time. Well, we did not have any winners with our bets this past week. Jason Day was fighting like hell, did not finish in the top 10.

Your man, JJ Spahn missed the cut by shot. I was going to miss the cut until they got a bunch of dudes to go finish the next morning and make a bunch of birdies and kick him out. That was disappointing. I was very high on that pick. All right. Well, you know what? It's a new week. We're on to the Valero, Texas Open.

Okay? A lot of guys getting ready for the Masters, but a golden opportunity, someone could punch their ticket to the Masters that is not already in with a win. For me, this is kind of tough to say, how loud. Tough golf course here. It is very tough golf course.

Did you have a monster tee ball there when the win was, what was the T-shot? No, I lasered because I was withdrawing. I lasered Chad Campbell's T-shot on the night that went 195 yards into a goddamn, I'm a hurricane in San Antonio. We had talked to Mike Juan about that ball roll back. I'm a fucker who'll be going 180.

He said, the best part about that is I out drove Dudley Hart by 10 yards. I hope it blows a million. Okay. Well, there's a man who's an all-time leading money winner down in San Antonio. He's got a T-shirt. Is he aware of it? Actually. And he's not scared to talk about it.

He's won here. But for a little top 20 bet, you can get him at plus 300. Like I said, it pains me that I actually have to root for the six. Segal, Charlie Hoffman, but caca, caca, let's go Segal. Top 20 plus 300 at Valero. What's his, what's his career earning? He's got to get a new shirt every year, but what are we at? It's over like $5 million.

It's a good career. It's a solid career. While you're making your pick, I'll look it up for you. Yeah, check that out. Let's see what we got. It'll be on his t-shirt next time we see him. All right, I'm staying in the top 20 realm. I'm going the kind of same way as you where I'm looking for a juicy one that I think

could do it. I'm going Maverick McNeely, top 20. That pays plus $225. So he's got three top tens on the. year. Damn near picked off his first win at the Genesis. Very solid ball striking across the board, which you need down there in San Antonio. And I didn't realize this. I mean, I knew he was climbing up the rankings. 16th in the OWGR right now. I mean, that's possible rider cover. And you're getting plus 225. Yeah, possible rider cover. And you're getting plus 225 on a top 20.

Give me Mav McNeely. All right. Yeah. I mean, he's can't hate that. He's a stud. You don't have a t-shirt with his earnings on it. It's pretty solid. On the, on the, on the, phone on the app on your phone. It doesn't have career earnings like it does on the normal, but I will tell you this. He went on a stretch there, starting back in 2009, where he went T9, T13, T2, T13, T3, T11, T11, win. Then he finished 40th and 64th. And then back-to-back seconds in 2019 and 2021. Coming off a T-69 in 2024. The Seagull Invitational, man, play some golf down there. I would love to see him play great. It'll make me happy slash

it's going to hurt to have to brag about him. Get into Augusta lead on Thursday. Thursday, Friday. For all the time's sake. Yeah, do what he does. I mean, we had Michael Kim on our serious XM show today, and he talked about how he called Charlie Hoffman for advice at the lasters. Did you just ask him how he plays Thursday?

Thursday and Friday. Yeah. Oh, it's beautiful. All right. Well, let's get to our interview this week. We got the CEO of the USGA, Mike Wan, joining us on golf subpar. All right. Our guest today has one of the biggest jobs in golf,

formerly commissioner of the LPGA tour for 11 years. Now in his fourth year, as CEO of the USDA, you could call him golf's number one man, Mike Juan in the house. Mikey, how we doing? What's up, boys? Good to see today. Good to be with you. Yeah, thank you so much for joining us.

Well, we're out here in Scottsdale, Mike. It's golf season year-round. But for the rest of the world, the rest of the United States, it's just getting going. The weather's turning nice. But can you talk a little bit about recreational golf and how golf is just booming right now? Yeah, I just drove from New Jersey down to Reynolds, Georgia.

So I just drove into golf season. I watched the seasons change over the last six states. But yeah, the game of golf is quite frankly never been like this before. 138 million people say they're engaged in this game. That's 47% of the American adult population. So we can stop calling ourselves a niche sport because that's just simply not true anymore. Over 47 million people playing the game. And the coolest thing is that's almost 60% bigger than I.

was just 10 years ago. So by any standard, this game is on fire. And the fact that it's growing because of women, people of color, juniors, demographics that I think 10, 15 years ago, we weren't sure we could really succeed in in the game. So it's really a special time for the game. I know there's been a lot of, you know, concern and discussion about what's happening with a few professional men's leagues. But outside of that, this game couldn't be stronger than it is right now. Yeah. And Mike, you kind of mentioned it right there. But how does the USGA measure like popularity. When you hear golfs as popular as it's ever been, is the number of rounds played at, you know, public and private golf courses? Is it people taking lessons? How do you guys quantify that?

Well, you know, in terms of a number of rounds, that's really how much people that are playing are playing the game, which is at a record level, 535 million last year. But sort of more importantly, it's the percentage of people that are actually, you know, teeing it up, whether that's off course or on course. And that's what I said, we're 57% bigger than we were last year. And when you think about the sub segments that's growing that, you know, whether you're talking about youth, which is up 48%, you know, females, which is up, you know, 48%. In fact, 60% of the on-course growth since COVID began has been driven by women. So, I mean, the game is really is really being pushed by demographics. For the longest time, we've really wanted to engage and bring into the game,

but it's happening now. People of color juniors, women really drive in the game to the next level. And you guys know because you visit enough golf courses, but it's a tough time to work. at a golf course, it would be a golf pro because nobody leaves and the T-sheets are full all day. And Tuesday feels just like Sunday. And we've been waiting a long time for this to happen for the game. It's exciting to see what's going on. Yeah, it's awesome. Like I said, golf is booming.

And a lot of great things happening at the USGA as well. The U.S. National Development Program, which I think is an awesome program that y'all have started recently. I actually got a chance to go up and speak to the team when they were out here in Scottsdale just a couple weeks ago. But tell us a little bit about that and how that all came about. Yeah, thanks. And thank you, Colt, for lending your voice.

to the videos that they got behind that. But so 11 years is the LPGA commissioner. One of the, you know, one of the hundreds of things I could tell you that was a surprise about the job was that every woman on that tour. And I mean, every woman on that tour came out of a country program unless she was an American. Because if she was American, there wasn't a country program. But Lydia Coe came out of team New Zealand and Arthur R. Munoz came out of team Spain.

And, you know, whether it was Korea, Thailand, Taiwan, Australia. They all have country programs. They gather these kids when they're 11, 12, 13, 4. 14 years old, elite, talented youth. And they put them on a pathway to their goals. They help introduce themselves to D1 schools, how to work with a caddy, stretching, nutrition. So many things that, quite frankly, Americans don't get until they make it to the college stand. And in some cases, some of those learnings don't even happen until they turn pro. And I could see young Americans coming out of the college ranks and quite frankly, not being as prepared as some of their

international. And they knew it. I mean, if you ask any young American and went through it, I mean, just talked about what Australia was like. It's funny, I had the coach of Stanford say to me one time, why do you make it so hard to recruit an American? And I said, I don't understand your question. And she was the coach of the women's team. She said, you know what I do if I want to recruit a Swede? And I said, well, you fly to Sweden.

She goes, no, I fly to Scottsdale. And you guys may know this, but team Sweden has a house in Scottsdale where there's 20 of the best 14-year-old women. Another house is 20 of the best 14-year-old men. And they come there for two years and they introduce them to D1 schools and coaching and get to play a year-round. Australia has a house in Orlando, and it goes on and on. So for a lot of years when I was the LPJ commissioner,

I pitched the USGA and started the U.S. National Development Team. Clearly unsuccessfully, my sales talent was weak. But when I got the job, I remember saying to the board, don't hire me unless you expect to wake up with the United States National Development Team because it's time for America to, quite frankly, catch up. And that's what we're doing. Yeah, congratulations. That's one of my favorite things that you guys have done since you took over in 2021.

But being CEO of the USDA, unique because you guys, got the amateur side of the game, which is the bulk of people, but then you also govern the pro side as well. In terms of your job specifically, what percentage of your focus is based on amateur recreation versus the pro game? It's probably 60, 40 amateur recreation. It's not as much, it's not as much all amateur as I think some people think just because of the, you know, even if you're going to be in charge of the rules of the game, if you think about it's fun, I had this conversation with a tour player at the U.S. Open last year on the driving range. We were talking about how rules are developed. And I said,

it sounds like you have a vision that, you know, four or five USGA guys get in a room and close the door for a week and we come out with a set of rules. But what actually happens is we bring together rules experts from all over the world from every different tour, LPJ, DP World Tour, obviously PJTor, Korn Ferry. We bring in rules experts from overseas in different countries. And that committee is what kind of works through the rulings of the game. Same thing happens in, you know, in equipment standards too,

where we bring in experts from all over to kind of help guide. So we're sort of the quarterback in the huddle, but we really do bring together a huddle, and the huddle is all of golf. So you can't govern in a vacuum, and you can't lead the game that way either. So quite frankly, I would say if you think about all the rule changes we've made them in the last 10 years, I'll bet you at least 60 or 7% of them have been driven by the input and the guidance from tours coming to us saying, hey, we could use help in this area. And that's where it sort of begins.

Well, a lot of talk the last couple years has been about the ball rollback, which we had a caller actually on our serious XM show today, bring that up. I think a lot of people at home don't understand, and you've explained to us recently, about how it's really not that big of a rollback. But could you just explain a little bit about what the average player at home can expect to see when y'all do decide to roll the golf ball back? Yeah, I think the simplest way for people to understand is we've been testing, we've been testing golf balls in terms of setting parameters and how far a ball can fly coming off. the face of a club for 50 years. And we've been doing it essentially the same way, meaning we hit a ball against the face, the ball comes off that face at a certain speed, and then the total distance a ball can fly off that speed is how we regulate manufacturers. We've updated it a couple of times because we've tried to set that test to replicate the fastest speeds, meaning the fastest speeds

that can be generated off the face. But the last time we updated that was 2004, and we updated that to have a ball coming off the face on 176 miles an hour. You don't have to watch too much golf on TV to realize that 176 mile-an-hour ball speed is no longer the high-end. In fact, it's getting closer and closer to what's average on tour or what's average in college. And what you're really talking about high-end speed, it's really 190 plus. So what we're doing is we're moving from 176-mile-hour ball testing speed to 183, and we'll move that move in 2028. 183 won't replicate the fastest. We know that. But because we're really worried about the recreational game, we want to make sure that that change has minimal, if any impact.

And so what I would tell you is just like our test has been for the last 50 years, when we set these tests, the impact is on the fastest speed. Sorry, Drew. But for those of you like yourself who can generate that kind of ball speed, you'll see a kind of different impact than somebody like me who doesn't generate that kind of ball speed. For the average player out there, we're talking about five yards or less off a driver and virtually no distance, four iron down your bag difference because you're just not generating enough ball speed off those clubs. So as I've said many times, it's kind of a huge nothing burger. for the recreational game, meaning if you want to go talk to your pro and say, hey, do me a favor in 2028 or in 2030, can you pick up all our white and blue teas, walk up five yards and set them back down? You'd be good. What we're really trying to make sure is for the fastest speeds of the game, which is the highest level of the game. And quite frankly, what's coming in the youth, because it's faster what's coming. To make sure we have some T-space over the next time in 10 or 15 years.

Otherwise, we're going to keep buying subdivisions and buying houses and expanding plots to keep up. or just quite frankly, past golf courses because we can't play them anymore. And that's okay. But, I mean, not many other sports just essentially lap their venues. And we have the ability to not do that here as well. But for the average golfer, I would just say, you know, for somebody who plays a lot of golf like myself, if I'm three yards difference off a tee, I wouldn't know it if you didn't tell me. And if you want to move my tea markers up five or six yards and more than offset it, that's fine.

In fact, we've said the same thing to the PGA tour or the DP World Tour. So if we're going to make the average tour player 10 yards shorter and you want to play from all your T-boxes 17 yards closer, go ahead. It's not about scoring. It's just about making sure that we're not pushing the boundaries of land beyond what's reasonable for this game long term. Yeah, I'm glad you explain that because I think the average guy out there here is a ball rollback and some guy swings at 90 miles an hour thinks he's going to be 20 yards shorter.

And it's just simply not the case. In fact, I would argue that most people won't be able to tell the difference between the two balls going forward. Funny thing I hear all the time, Drew, so somebody goes, you know, You know, my dad would say, you know, I have a hard time just getting to the fairway anyway from the T's I'm hitting from. And I would say about a third of the golf balls that are approved today, models that we've approved will still be approved in 2020, in 2028 and 2030. So if you're using the right ball for your swing speed and your game, like if you're somebody who needs a ball that stays in the air and kind of gets there longer, that ball's going to still be on the marketplace. I don't know if you're using the right ball, but if you are about a third of the models that are currently on the approved list will stay on the approved list because those balls are quite.

frankly, are designed for a different kind of golfer. And as I've said to my dad and his buddies, if you're using the right ball, you won't change a thing in 2030. Yeah. Or here's another thing. Just move up a T-box. It's pretty fun. They hit some short irons in like these guys.

But when making a decision like that, which has made huge waves, how much does the USGA have to work hand in hand with like the RNA and things like that when you're deciding to do that? Yeah, I mean, I would say if the RNA are also really tied at the hip on this from the very beginning. And, you know, like any two organizations when you come together, we've had differences of views along the way. But we've always said there's only three ways to go here. We could make a golf ball just for the elite golfers and leave the recreational game alone.

We could make changes in the golf regulations that make sure that still it's just one ball regulations for all, or we could do nothing. And the one thing that us and the RNA have agreed from the very beginning was option three wasn't an option. So whether it was going to be one ball, which we'd call an MLR, a model local rule ball for just the elite or one ball regulation across the board, we had to work with all the different entities to kind of get the right level of of input to get to the final answer there. But we knew from the beginning, there's certain people that just want us to do nothing and say, you know, at the end of the day, if we're 25 yards longer in the next 25 years and we're 40 yards longer, and the next 40 years, golf courses

will just have to keep up. And that's a great way to just simply kick the can down to the next generation, let them figure about water and pace of play and, you know, land space and whether you'll ever have a golf course near a city again. So these are all things that are completely controllable. And quite frankly, virtually every other sport has some of these. You know, the NFL football is bigger than the college football. Pro baseball players use a wood bat and not a capacitor aluminum bat. It's not odd for us to be able to make sure that we can try to keep our game in these incredible venues that we've built over the years. All right, before we get back to our interview with Mike Juan, I want to tell you about the Odyssey

putter from Callaway. Min Wooley was on absolute fire this week, gaining over eight shots on the field en route to his first win on the PGA tour. And Odyssey isn't just the number one putter brand. It dominates globally. Number one putter on every major tour, PGA, LPGA, DP World, you name it. It's not a close race. Significantly more tour pros choose Odyssey over the next closest competitor. Number one in worldwide wins.

Number one in money earned, tour pros, no performance matters, and they know Odyssey delivers. See what Odyssey can do for you at odysseygolf.com. Now back to Mike Juan. Well, speaking of incredible venues, major championship season is upon us. The Masters starts next week. USGA has an unbelievable lineup this year.

Got the U.S. Open at Oakmont, women's opens at Aaron Hills. U.S. Amateur is an Olympic club. Got to be a pretty good player to win around there. And then the Walker Cup, Cypress Point. How cool is that going to be? Yeah, I mean, there's so many, I've said this many times. We hadn't even turned on the ticket process yet,

and we had 6,000 people that had sent us an email about getting tickets. unfortunately, one of the agreements we made with Cyprus, and if you guys have been out there, you know, with those natural sand hills, we can't put 10,000 people out there and tear down an incredible, you know, I was called that part of the world, America, Scotland. I mean, the piece of land that just God built and turned into great golf. But we are going to have some people out there, and as you guys know from your own experiences, and the Walker Cup, you're walking down the fairway behind these groups. And so for a few lucky folks to be able to walk down the fairways of Cypress Point,

with some of the best amateurs in the world. It's going to be quite a special moment. Actually, you know, a mile down the road, I think you guys probably know Monterey Peninsula Golf Club. We're going to have the women's midam there this year as well. And I've always said between Pebble, Monterey Peninsula, Cyprus, you know, within a pretty good jog, you could probably go to three of the best golf courses in the world.

And I'm excited to show off Cyprus point for sure. It's always been my number one on the list. But one A or one B is Pebble and Monterey Peninsula right down the street and excited that we'll be at Monterey Peninsula Golf Club this year as well. Yeah, hell of the lineup. I'll tell you what I'm excited for is U.S. Open going back to Oakmont. And if you could just do us a favor, maybe promise us here right now. Can you just make Oakmont like impossible? I want tears and bitching and crying after these guys haul their ass off that golf course. Well, the good news, Drew, is, you know, I don't even have to give you any requirements because

Oakmont's hard today. If we went out and threw the ball down today, we'd have a U.S. Open. So of all the places we play, I would say Oakmont is the core. we do the least to between going there and setting up for the U.S. Open. It is a it's a beast. It was designed to be a beast. It was designed to separate the best from the best and it does after going through a recent kind of redesign and facelift. It's it's amazing. I mean for some of the tour players that haven't been there for a while, I mean the driving range alone is going to blow them away in terms of what's changed in the last couple years. But yeah, it's a it's a special place. And all you got to do is,

is look at the lineup of who have won there. And, you know, it does bring out the best of the best. And yes, I would think that's a good week for me to probably not check Twitter for a week. Good idea. But yeah, that plays is a monster. It's the hardest golf course I've ever played. One thing, one last thing about the venues, also some love to the Curtis Cup, who will be going to Pine Valley, I believe, in 2034. Is that right? Yeah, and then the Walker Cup will go there in 2044. So, you know, would you look at the Walker Cup, Curtis Cup lineup? We really think about the Walker and Curtis Cup as playing the golf courses that we think are the best in the world that might not be able to host a U.S. Open or U.S. Women's Open for all kinds of logistical reasons. So, yeah, I mean, the Curtis Cup next year, 26, will be in, we'll be at Bel Air, which will be a really cool time to get to Bel Air after all the challenges they've gone through, which will follow the women's U.S. Open at Riviera. So I'm excited to get to L.A. next year and be able to bring something exciting for that region, be able to give something back financially when we show up for the.

those. But yeah, it's a pretty, it's a pretty, it's a pretty, it's a pretty heavy lineup when you look at Curtis Cup and Walker Cup over the next 10 to 15 years. It's unreal. Hopefully there's enough room in that Bel Air Clubhouse for everyone. It gets a little tight around there. It's cramped, claustrophobic. Yeah, you have to move some things outside. We'll get to the E9 here in just a second, Mike, but so much, so many good things going on in the game of golf. You talked about the growth, the venues, amateur game, all these sort of things. In your opinion, though, right now, going forward during your tenure, what are the biggest challenges facing the game of golf? Well, I mean, we're going to have to figure out, we're going to have to continue to figure

out and put attention to water. I mean, you guys know where you are. I know when I say that to somebody in Florida or Georgia or New Jersey, like, what's the problem with water? But if you're in Australia, Portugal, or Tucson or San Francisco, you know, we have to make sure we continue to push that. So we have this project called 1530, 45. In the next 15 years, we're coming $30 million to help any golf course in the world. reduce its water footprint by 45%. We need to make sure we take care of water, not just because it's the right thing to do,

but we just want to make sure that we don't have challenges that this game feels like we have to give back land because of how we're utilizing that land. And these are all incredibly doable things. I'm excited. We're working closely with Golf Course Superintendent's Association of America to make sure that we can still deliver golf courses exactly the way we want,

but do so in an environmentally friendly way. I think we need to figure that out. to make sure that we, I always say that, you know, when I, when I was at the LPGA, I would talk a lot about long term, but really long term for me was Thursday. Like, I just had to get through this week, zip up all the bags, get to the next location. But when you're at the USGA, you spend 95% of your time thinking about the game that your kids, kids will inherit. And how do you make sure that the game is going to be even stronger 50 years from now than it is today? So you start thinking about the things that we can address today. And I think, you know, understanding our economic, you know, our environmental footprint is at the top of that list.

That's awesome. We are doing great stuff at the USGA. The Game of Golf is in very good hands with y'all. But we're going to get to the E9. A little condensed version because we don't have a ton of time. So we're going to skip our first question that we normally do and go right to this one. Okay. Mike Juan can win the United States Open Championship.

Okay. You're going to go out there. You're going to have the week of your life. You're going to win. Good week. You get to pick any venue for it to be at. What are you choosing? Pebble.

Love it. I just, you know, we can pebble for us has becomes kind of the biggest venue too. We put the most amount of people out there. To me, if I'm walking down 18 at Pebble Beach with any shot lead at a U.S. Open, that's, I mean, I probably shouldn't answer that because all our anchor sites would say,

how come you didn't say us? But there's just something, there's something faith-based about standing on that T-box at the end of a Sunday. Yeah, all the greats and Gary Woodland have won there. Yeah, there's an asterist everywhere. You know? I'm going to stay on the venue topic here for just a moment. Now, use your imagination, but let's just say, hypothetically, every course in the United States of America was forced to close

for some unbeknownst reason. You have to move the U.S. Open outside the continental USS. Give me a continental U.S.. Give me a course globally that you would want to host the U.S. Open. First thing that came to my is Royal Melbourne. I mean, Royal Melbourne's kind of got a, you know, it's kind of like Oakmont. I don't think we'd have to do a lot to get it ready. and it's kind of a neat combination of Australia meets Pinehurst. And, you know, it just, when I played Roe Melbourne, it's felt like, it's felt like on me. The whole Melbourne area feels like San Diego. I spent a lot of time in Southern California.

And I just love the penalty for a, for 15 yards off your line. You know, I mean, just like Pinehurst, it's about where you miss, not just where you, where you strike it appropriately. and Royal Melbourne would probably be an instant classic as a U.S. Open. I love that. I don't know if you know this, but back in 2012, we were actually at the Canadian Open up in Shaughnessy, and Tommy Ganey said this place could hold a U.S. Open tomorrow. Yeah, so keep that in your back pocket just in case you need it.

Yeah. That's beautiful. Tommy's the geography major. All right. Next one. If you could change one rule in the game of golf, what would it be? I get this all the time. The good news for both you guys is,

And Drew seen me play so you know they did not hire me for my rulemaking or my rule editing ability. One of the things that I'm, you know, that I pride myself in is I know what I'm good at. I know what I'm not. So I trust the rules team more than the rules team trust me. It's funny when I got here, I said to the guys, I'm the first non-rules qualified CEO. Everybody else has spent 25 years at the USDA before they became the CEO. So I decided to go to rule school. And I was literally just wanting to sit in.

It was a Friday, Saturday, Sunday. It's the middle of January. What else are you going to do? in New Jersey. And at one point, one of the instructors asked me to stop asking questions, because I was asking so many questions that we were slowing down our pace of play. And then at the end, somebody who works for me came up and said, I think it'd be really cool if you took the test on Monday. And I had a flight out Monday morning. I said, I can't take the test. And she said, I'll come in early if you'll take the test. Because I just think for all the people that have sat through

this three days. So I didn't have a rules book. I didn't do any of the test. And so I went and took the test. And the good news is that I think I currently hold the lowest score recorded on a rules test. And I think they're supposed to be confidential. But a couple of years later, they asked me to come down and welcome a new group. And I walked in late. And I heard them saying, don't worry, no matter how you do over the next three days, you won't score worse than our CEO, Mike Juan. So I'm not your guy for rules questions. Fair enough. That's great. That's a good CEO, though. Very relatable, making people feel good. I'm a switch gears here for you, Mikey, because I did a little research. Heard you played a little high school quarterback back in the day, okay? I need to hear the

opposing coach in high school. Their scouting report on Mike Juan as quarterback. Oh, they're going to say, you know, he's not very tall, but the good news is he runs about a 5-940. So he's not going to outrun us. And all we really have to do is cover about 25 yards deep because I don't think he can throw it 30 yards. So, I mean, they'd probably roll up on me pretty tight. I can't throw it over the head. I can't run past I can't understand why I didn't succeed as a college quarterback. I was short, slow, and a weak arm. Perfect. Good at handed it off, though, I would assume.

Probably at an elite handoff. I would call a play with a lot of confidence because I knew however the play ended, the ball would not end up in my hands. All right. Very honest. Very honest report. All right, next one. I need you to change a little something with the U.S. handicapped system, okay?

USJ handicap system, which, you know, I'm a guy that likes to have a little action on the golf course, I think we need to put a new rule in that if you go out there and play well and you lose money, you don't have to type your score in. I thought you were going to go down a different path, like we were going to build a little Venmo right into the gin handicap.

That would be great as well. That's an option. Keep it, my neighbor up in New Jersey said, I just need a little bank account as part of my gym so I can just at the end, wire you, you wire me back. But no, it's by the way, we go live on April 15th. I think you guys probably know,

no matter where you are on the crib, You guys in Scottsdale can't deal with this. But for a lot of us who live in other parts of the, where we actually experience winter, can't really post a round. But on April 15th, everybody in America's lives, so no matter where you're playing golf,

you can post your round and simultaneously affect your handicap. I love that. I'm just saying, when you play good and you lose money and then your handicap goes down and you have to give that guy more strokes the next day. I don't really like that.

Yeah. That sounds like a partner problem. It sounds like you're choosing the wrong guy. Good point. Yeah, there's a lot of wrong guys out here. A lot of wrong guys. guys. I hear, Mike. All right, last one for me, because you've worked in sports, basically your entire life, okay? Let's just say you're staying in the sports world, but golf is off the table.

You can't work in golf. What job, what position would you want? Yeah, I'd probably do football. I mean, football is a sport I grew up with. I've known it since I was a kid. Like I said, I was a quarterback since I was eight years old. It's funny when I got the opera to be the LPJ commissioner. The last question they asked me in the interview was, can you describe your leadership style. And I was, I don't know, I was like 45 years old. And I remember thinking, my God, I don't, I don't have a leadership style. And I'm 45 years old. So I asked her to repeat the question. And she's like, what's your leadership style? I was just stalling for time. So I said, I'm going to tell you a little story about me. And that's my leadership style. So when I was

10 years old, my dad let me go out for football for the first time. And at the end of the week, he came up to talk to the coach. And I was over on the side playing touch with my buddies. But you know, when you're 10, you have the ability to listen to your dad and is 30 yards away. And my dad says, coach, what do you think about my son, Mike? And he said, well, Mr. Juan, he said, you know, your son's pretty small for his age, so I don't really think he could take the beating of the line of scrimmage. My dad said, yeah, I thought you'd say that. And he goes, you know, he's a thin kid, but he's not very fast for as thin as he is. So I don't really think he could be a receiver or run the ball. And I remember my dad saying, you think we should wait a

year and come back, like 10 seconds in and my dad has bailed on me. And the coach said, I've never seen a 10-year-old learn the offense so fast. And he's very comfortable telling the other players, what they do on every play. And he tends to be right. Like he knows what everybody's supposed to do. He may not know how to do it himself, but he knows it. So we're going to try him with quarterback. And the last thing he said is, as long as your son is smart enough to get the ball out of his hands

and in the hands of another athlete quickly, we might have a winning formula. And so here I was at 45 years old and I said to the board of the LPGA, that's what you get if you get me. Like I'm not going to be the best athlete in the room. But I will build the LPGA into a strong team because I'll fail without it. Like I'm not the guy you want running the ball, but I'll build a team of athletes that can run it. I'll call the play. I'll analyze the defense.

But it's embarrassing. Now I'm 60. And, you know, when somebody asked me that question, you know, I'm still kind of the average athlete who just probably was cockier than he deserved that could understand the defense pretty quickly. That's probably same in terms of how I run the USDA. I'm never the guy with the ball in my hand. Thank goodness for the game. But I'll get the ball in the right person's hand quickly. Well, you've done a great job everywhere you've been.

The LPGA, I mean, is thriving right now. Thanks in large part to you. The USDA is doing great. The game of golf is in very good hands when you're involved. Last one. Okay. This is a serious question. Okay.

How many USGA championships does a man have to win to be considered for the Walker Cup captaincy? Well, first off, if you come, I think from playing with Drew last year, I think you're also got to pick him up based on that experience. I mean, that's definitely a captain player. The good news is we have a, we have a, I know you're not asking it on design, but the good news is we have a captain committee that I'm sure that you could get in and have a few dinners with and talk to it if you're serious about the role. Oh, it'd be amazing. A little bribery.

I got my vice captain sitting right over here. Yes, that's right. Minister of culture. Maybe a playing vice captain, how did you? I think that's good. Maybe we add a point to the mix. It's just singles the vice captains go out. I saw some Walker Cup talent when I was out west.

I think that would be up to the captain. And no disrespect, you're on the bench. You got it. You got to do some blackmail or something. You ain't got it yet. I love it. Well, Mike, man, we really appreciate you taking some time and joining us here on subpar.

It's been a blast, my man. Thank you, guys. Not all for your support of the game, but the way you guys play USAJ championships yourself. It's good for the game. Thank you so much. Keep up the great work. We appreciate you.

All right, that was the CEO of the USDA. Mike Wan joining us on golf subpar. Good news. So he didn't totally shoot down the idea of Walker Cup captain, Vice Captain. Feels like a packaged deal. I can make you. a deal. If I am the Walker

Cup captain ever, or if you are which is possible, you will be my vice captain. I'll also make you a promise. If I am the vice captain and you are captain, I'm fucking playing. I don't give a shit what the captain says. I'm making an executive decision. It is up to me, my friend. Actually, yeah, we'll see.

By the time you get it, Stewie Higestat will be 54. We're announcing 24 Walker Cup venues. I'm telling you. I'm like, I'm going to be 80. I'm telling you. Shadow Creek, little Walker Cup, captain, vice captain. I like that. Maybe some special caddies, you know, for the guys.

Who could steer them around that place better? Yeah. Oh, man. I like everything you're doing that. I love it. I like it. And I thought it was really fascinating on a serious note. Like the ball rollback thing.

This is, yeah. People have freaked out about this. I get it. But as he just explained very well, if you're the average guy at home that swings it 90 miles an hour, 100 miles an hour, or me, you're not going to really get affected. Yeah, I would argue most guys.

It's like when Caddy's laser in like 63. You know, I'm like 60, 65. It's the same shit for everyone. Like these balls, if you're in it three yards shorter, the average guy, I think most people think, like they hear a ball rollback. Like, oh, it's good. I'm going to be way short. I'm already short.

I don't want to be shorter. Like, you won't even notice. But it needs to be done. Like, I've 180 on this. I used to be like, screw it, dude. Guys are bigger, stronger faster. Why aren't we trying to, you know, roll this thing back to make it like the old days, let them go.

But as it's gone on and some of the distances these guys are hitting in, just what it's doing to these golf courses. And he makes good points that no one even thinks about, like, what about water? You're going to have to keep making courses bigger? Where are you going to build these things? You know what I mean? And some of the classics have no more room. Like, I'm all in favor.

Like, just send it way back for the top. I want the bifurcation and just roll it all the way back. I'd like to see Rory have to hit a couple five irons around. That'd be nice. He's still going to be one of the best players in the world. I would argue it would even help them more the harder they make it in terms of distance or forgiveness on the drivers. Scotty's Rory's, Xanders, those guys would be even. bigger gap between them and the rest.

Yeah, the longest are still going to be the longest. Yeah. It doesn't really matter. But a lot of fun sitting down with him. I know he's a very busy man. Oh, the quarterback sounds like. It was cool for him to sit down and take some time with us. That was great.

Yeah, thank you, Mike. All right, what else we got to get to today? Anything interesting? Remember guest prep? You better get ready. Remember guys prep? Don't let your brother down. I got the great John Ellis coming in.

You're going to play with him. Tune up Wednesday. He's normally a ball of negativity, so that'll be good to get my morale up. before the member guests. And then, yeah, probably just sending it with my bro all week. Shout out my brother, River Bend Country Club down in Virginia, making his way out. The only guy with skinnier legs on the course of me. It's nice.

That's true. All right. Last big news is, y'all want to get some subpar birdie juice merch. We got it for you. Big news. You can now shop branded subpar gear at shop.golf.com. You get to call the shots. Choose your gear, your favorite logo, and even your go-to brand.

style. Pick your favorite birdie juice logo and shop from a lineup of top tier brands. Got Lulu Lemon, Holderness and Born, a ton of great options. From polos to hats to hoodies and more, we've got the gear to match your vibe on and off the course. Tons of options, fully customizable and all dripping with birdie juice swagger. Don't wait, hit shop.golf.com and snag your birdie juice gear now. Have a great week, everyone, or one week away from the masters. Cannot wait. Also, hope to see everyone at the RBC Heritage. We'll talk to you on next week's subpar. Thank you.