Suggestible - Political Rooftop Dancing

Episode Date: October 15, 2020

Suggestible things to watch, read and listen to. Hosted by James Clement @mrsundaymovies and Claire Tonti @clairetonti.Visit bigsandwich.co for bonus weekly shows, a monthly commentary, early stuff and ad free podcast feeds for $9 per month.This week’s Suggestibles:Rodham by Curtis SittenfeldHillary Documentary SeriesRBG Documentary FilmMore Than a Women by Caitlin MoranNurturing Your New Life by Heidi SzeRooftop Dancing by Sylvan EssoSend your recommendations to [e-mail], we’d love to hear them.You can also follow the show on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook @suggestiblepod and join our ‘Planet Broadcasting Great Mates OFFICIAL’ Facebook Group. So many things. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hey folks, it's Mark Maron from WTF. I travel all over North America doing stand-up and it's always good to know Airbnb is an option when I'm away from home. But if you're away from home, why not take your own place and Airbnb it? Airbnb your whole home to make some extra cash. Or if you have a spare room that's not in use, just Airbnb that. Whether you could use extra money to cover some bills or for something a little more fun, your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at airbnb.ca slash host. What up, son? Did you just call me son?

I don't know. What are we doing? What up, son? Normally you do the bing bong thing or whatever, don't you? Yeah, yeah, bing, yeah. I don't have any bing or bongs in me. It's too late. Binged your last bong. I binged my last bong thing or whatever, don't you? Yeah, yeah, bing, yeah. I don't have any bing or bongs in me. It's too late. Binged your last bong.

I binged my last bong. How about I sing you a song? No, thanks. You are my sunshine, my only sunshine. This is unpleasant. You make me, no, you don't make me happy when skies are grey. No, you do, but you do think the sky is a conspiracy. Anyway.

What? You do. You've said this before. The sky is a conspiracy. Yeah, or over You do. You've said this before. The sky is a conspiracy. Yeah. Or overrated. The sky is not a conspiracy. Oh, no, you said overrated.

Yeah, the sky is overrated. The sky is not overrated. It's the only thing keeping me going at the moment. The sky. Okay. James and I are living in lockdown. We are Suggestible Pod. We're married.

We recommend you stuff. Like the sky. We're living from day to day like a bunch of prisoners trapped in this kind of forsaken house. It's not that bad. We've got it better than a lot of people. Yeah, we do. And numbers are generally on the decline. Of the lockdown that we are currently in in Melbourne, Australia.

There were six yesterday, when this goes out, yesterday. Yeah, I know. And we're still locked in our house. Or seven, whatever it was. Good God. I'm just used to it. It's just like this is my life. It's weird though, isn't it, how that happens?

And you're walking around with the mask everywhere we go because it's mandated in Victoria where we live. You just get used to it. I remember when it first happened I felt like we were living in The Handmaid's Tale and I freaked out every time we went to the shops. And now my thinking is what outfit am I wearing and what mask shall I wear to match it? And it's amazing how quickly it changes.

You adjust. You adjust. Yeah. Correct, you're just letting the dog out. Have you got a recommendation first or would you like me to recommendation first? Can I go first? Yeah.

All right. I have kind of two recommendations that dovetail into each other but I'll start off with where I started, which was a novel called Rodham by Curtis Settenfeld. This is a sexy book, isn't it? It's a sexy book. It's so sexy. It's such a sexy book.

So it's a reimagined version of Hillary Clinton's life. She obviously was formerly known as Hillary Rodham. Yes. And it's sort of similar to Curtis Sittenfeld's other book, American Wife, which is her 2008 novel where she reimagined the life of a first lady like Laura Bush. So this story really has a narrative arc where it begins exactly or very closely to what happened when Hilary met Bill Clinton.

Yes. When they were, you know, in college and how the love affair transpired. There's a lot of racy, sexy scenes. Oh, my goodness. You really get the sense of them as two really highly intelligent, interesting, charismatic people kind of meeting and falling head over heels for each other and where that kind of starts. This didn't start as fanfic or anything?

No. Like how Fifty Shades started off as like a Twilight fanfic or something? I don't think so. I haven't seen anything like that. Why is it good though? Because people are like, this is good. Yeah, it's weird. And I hear this and I'm like, this sounds fucking awful.

It's strange that it sounds like it would be good. I know I wasn't really that into reading it but I had so many people recommend it to me. Like, ooh, I want to think about Bill and Hillary Clinton having sex. No, I think, but that's not the point of the book. I mean, obviously Curtis Sittenfeld is a fan of Hillary Clinton but I think it's just a fascinating kind of tale of highly intellectual, very left-wing strident feminist coming to her own at a time when feminism was, you know, rocketing through.

Ba-choo! Yeah, and she was just this extraordinary human being and is an extraordinary human person. And why she was so extraordinary, I mean, everyone at college widely accepted that she was the much more impressive person. I would agree with that. I mean, Bill was very charismatic and handsome and, you know,

quite suave and from Arkansas and had that kind of boyish charm. Yeah, he could play a sexy one. And very ambitious. But she, in 1969 actually, as a graduating student from Wellesley, I think it's Wellesley College, before she decided to go into law school, she does a speech at her graduation that basically knocks the socks off everybody, and this is true. It's a true part of the story.

So that's what's kind of clever about it. It dovetails a lot of what is true and then goes into just it's lovely to imagine a world where Hillary doesn't marry Bill and kind of goes out in her own. And the second part of the book is it's kind of like a sliding doors moment where she finds out about some of his infidelity yeah which becomes the sort of bill clinton that is painted in the novel has is very flawed which argued is yeah he's probably a criminal yeah well well who knows but it's very um kind of she finds out about his infidelity and rather than staying with him decides to leave him.

Yeah. And in that then she becomes a senator in her own right and eventually runs for president. And how that transpires in the story, there's something really personable about it. I think that Curtis has gone with real depth into her friendships. Yeah. Into the characters that we do see in real life pop up in her career, including Barack Obama.

Yeah, right. Donald Trump plays a figure. They were friends at one point. Yeah. I mean, in real life in the book, I don't know. Yeah, and in the book, yeah, they do play that out in a way too. He donated to a, I can't remember, at some point for something. Yeah, well, I mean, Donald Trump's donated to both Canberra,

the Democrats and the Republicans. It's almost like he doesn't believe it. Well, anyway. Yeah, well, I mean, Donald Trump's donated to both candidates, the Democrats and the Republicans. It's almost like he doesn't believe it. Well, anyway. Sorry. Yeah, so, I mean, and that's kind of interesting and especially to after knowing what actually does transpire in the 2016 election, it's something really lovely. It says a lot about what it's like to be a single woman,

what it's like to be a woman who is highly gifted and really good at her job, very great with policy, able to campaign, but is a real groundbreaker. You know, she's at the forefront of breaking through that glass ceiling and how the media portrays her. And it kind of explores that in depth too. But the most beautiful moments, I think, are the ones with her friendships with the women in her life.

So I think often sometimes the criticism of Hilary, which I think is often through a gender lens, is that she's not warm or not trustworthy or there's something about her I just don't like in inverted commas. And when you really watch, later I'm going to talk about a documentary that goes really well with this. You should go straight into it. I don't want to be like like put my thing in the middle. A good companion to this novel, which is actually just a great read.

It's just a really fun, interesting, gripping read. And she paints her, Hilary is just this really unique person. And I think the Hilary documentary that's made by Nanette Bernstein, who produced, directed and co-directed several documentaries, she's just brilliant, including the Academy Award nominated Sundance special film On the Ropes, which is a boxing documentary. Right. Anyway, she's brilliant.

And you can tell the documentary is made by someone with a really adept hand. It's a remarkably intimate portrait of Hillary revealing moments from her life, sort of interwoven with the 2016 campaign footage. And it's biographical. So it features exclusive interviews with Hillary, Rodham Clinton herself, Bill Clinton, Chelsea Clinton, friends and journalists. And the series examines how she became at once one of the most admired and vilified women in the world. It's very candid. It is. Yeah.

What I got from it, from what I've seen of it, and you've obviously seen the whole thing and I've probably seen half, is that Bill Clinton like kind of held her back a lot of the time, like her saddling herself to him when it seemed like it's interesting that I didn't realise this book was about that as well. I thought it was all about just the sexy stuff. No, no, not at all. No, the sex is just like it adds colour to it. You could see like from the pressure from the media and from like internally

because they were kind of running together and it was like and people perceived it as that she was the one who had all the power and she was crazy left-leaning and she's like manipulating Bill Clinton into like doing the things that, you know, that he didn't want to do or it seems like that's the way the media seemed to portray it. Do, you know, that he didn't want to do. Or it seems like that's the way the media seem to portray it. Do you see what I'm saying? Yeah, I do.

I think that's one way of looking at it. They were literally saying that though. They were showing media clips of the time being like, who's really pulling the strings here? And like there were skits and things like that have been, you know, like he had to ask permission to do all these things. And I just think, I don't think he's a great, I think he's a pretty fucking awful person to be honest and I think that she would have been better off without him.

It's really interesting because he was a really progressive president. So even though maybe as a character. I mean maybe at the time but like he still did a bunch of shit that like this has ramifications to this day in relation to, you know, to laws relating to imprisonment and all these other kinds of, but yeah, sorry, go on. Yeah, but he did also turn the economy around too. Yeah, I know. And I think he had some really ironically wonderful ideas

about supporting women too. Sure, yeah. And he really did try and push for universal healthcare and he let Hillary really spearhead that and it didn't come through. What I think was very clear was that she was a really impressive First Lady but that... And a different kind of First Lady. Yeah, very different.

It's really interesting because the argument could be made, would she have had such sort of an incredibly huge media presence in her own right if she had not married Bill and he was on it because of the time that she was living in. Exactly. That's the other thing, yeah. And I think what drives it home both in Rodham the book

but also desperately in the documentary makes me so angry and sad in a lot of ways watching it because there is just no doubt that a lot of the treatment of Hillary Clinton is down to sexism. Like there is absolutely no doubt because there is still so few leaders. There has never been a president of the United States that's been a woman. And when you look at when she came through in her career, she went to law school when men were telling her, you don't belong here.

Yeah. Like when she was sitting her entrance exam, literally a small group of women that was doing it at the time were yelled at by men in the lecture theatre. I mean, you know, exam room saying, you shouldn't be here. You're a woman. You're taking my job. You're going to make me have to go to Vietnam and get killed

because you're here instead. And it's kind of almost hard to imagine a world where that is the case, where your options were, you know, limited. And the expectation on women was that you had to look a certain way and be a certain way, be soft, be demure, don't be too smart, keep yourself down so that you're more likeable and palatable. And she was kind of this bolshie feminist who had like – She looks completely different as well.

Yeah, well, she let it – because back then, you know, at that time, she grew her leg hair out, she grew her armpits out. Her hair is just like frayed and like big glasses. Yeah, exactly. And they talk about there when she first met Bill's mother when he took her home to meet her mum and his mother was very put together, nails, hair, makeup, the rest. Yeah.

I thought what was interesting too is Bill talks a lot about how he really respected and loves like really intelligent, strong women because he was raised by a really strong, you know, single mother. And look, I think he had a tumultuous upbringing too. I think he's a sex criminal. Okay. Anyway, I want to stop talking about him though because I think this is what happens with women over and over and what makes me so cross is that we always seem

to talk about women in relation to the men in their life. Yeah. And it's never about, and I'm getting quite angry now, but watching that documentary it made me so sad because Hillary Clinton's career now, even though she was just this incredible politician who worked tirelessly her whole life in service of others, particularly for women and children, she was an incredible first lady.

The stuff that she did in terms of outreach overseas after working on the healthcare bill that didn't go through. Is this when she went with her daughter? Yeah, she went with her daughter Chelsea overseas to work in Southeast Asia and in different places to highlight the plight of women globally and she did this incredible speech at I think it was a UN convention for women that was really looked down upon through the media as not very important. And she still is quoted to this day at the end of that

speech in saying that women's rights are human rights. And that's still something we quote today because I think it's really important to just remember how far rights for women have come and how far they still need to go and how much we're still fighting for women's voices to be heard and to be taken seriously. Yeah. And I think the way that she was just treated in the media constantly, constantly undermining her, constantly questioning her. It's been like, it's always been like that.

Yeah, decades. I don't know whether this is reflective of the time, but it seemed to me in the documentary there was initially like, wow, look at these guys, they're amazing. And then it turned because she made one comment about, that was construed as that she doesn't like working mothers. Oh, so she doesn't like mothers who stay at home, which is not what she said at all.

No, it was just that she said I could have stayed home and made tea and biscuits but instead I wanted to do my job. Yeah. And that was construed as her. I wouldn't even say like it was twisted that way. I think, you know, I didn't see it that way, the way that she said it. No, if you see it in context, I don't think she meant it that way at all but it was taken by the media as then her speaking

down to stay-at-home mothers, really. Yeah. And I think that's the complexity of this, right, that she was becoming a leader at a time where it was very unusual to see a woman in that kind of position of power. And the fact of the matter is the research shows we are still uncomfortable with the idea of a woman being the leader. We're okay with her. Like when she was being secretary of state, her approval ratings were through the roof. And you can see that she did an amazing job.

But then once she steps up to the plate and then runs for president, then there's this kind of complex relationship people start to have with her again. And that was obviously reflected in the vote, you know. Like she won the popular vote but she didn't win. I think and it was also what was interesting in the documentary, they looked at the timing of what happened and there was some extraordinary timing.

Houghton obviously has a real dislike of her as well and there's some insinuation in the documentary that part of what happened was to do with the fact that Putin didn't like her, saw her as an adversary and preferred someone like Trump who was more of a puppet. Without a doubt. And that seems to be and they kind of insinuate that that could be a real reason why Russia was meddling with the election.

Yeah. And that's fact that that was happening, that Russia was meddling. Yeah, I know. It's denied, but there's so much evidence that that wasn't. Yeah, correct. Yeah, but that, I mean, that whole campaign was an absolute shit show. I mean, not as much as this current one. Maybe.

I don't know. But see, you know, what was really interesting, I think, is when you watch back the debates with Hillary, she was brilliant. Sorry, I meant like the media circus of it. Yeah, and that's what it seemed to be too, that the media wasn't her friend either. And obviously she's not perfect and has made mistakes and there are things that, you know. Yeah, but how can you have a life in, how can you have a public life

without long without having mistakes? And look, I know it's easy to say like would it have been better? You know, it would have been, I think it would have been obviously better because looking back four years, what an absolute shit show it's been. Of course it would have been better because she was someone you can tell that was not necessarily going to sugarcoat it because she was so good with policy.

And there's no way to like obviously definitively know that. But, I mean, look where we are. Like really. Do you know what I mean? Would it have been worse than this? Yeah, exactly. Really? There were some really strange things that happened too,

like James Comey with her emails. Yeah. And it made me really think about how politically often we say things, we just say words like emails and we don't really know the ins and outs of what they were talking about. But when you look at it closer, you can see that she was using emails on a private server but both times the FBI looked at it, it just was because that was the way she'd always done emails. She'd never thought about it.

And then when they looked into it, they realised there wasn't anything to worry about. But just before everyone voted, James Comey. You could just say 30,000 emails or whatever. Yeah, no, I had forgotten. Just before everyone voted, James Comey then reopened the investigation. Which was never been done or it's not done, isn't it? Yeah, yeah.

Because it can destabilise the government. Isn't that the idea behind not doing that? I think so, yeah. I can't remember the – but it's Yeah. Yeah. Because it can destabilise the government. Isn't that the idea behind not doing that? I think so. Yeah. But it's not done essentially. Yeah. And just before the votes were cast and even though that was then disproved again. And the only reason it was brought up was because Anthony Weiner, I'd forgotten all of this, which is so crazy. Anthony Weiner was married to Huber Aberdeen, which was like one of her staff, and Huber somehow some of the emails had ended up on his laptop and he was being looked at for sex offences basically, sending photos of his Weiner, particularly to a 15-year-old girl.

He actually was criminally convicted of that. Did he go to jail? Yeah, he did. Cool. And Huber in 2016 divorced him after that revelation. But that all happened on the same day as, you know, so I think there were a couple of other things that happened. Maybe that was the same day that the recording of Donald Trump saying

grab her by the pussy happened as well. So that was the same or at least the same. And the same day as the media started to look at Russia meddling in the election. It all happened on the same day. So it became this media storm just before she went into another debate with Trump. And if you watch those debates, she is brilliant.

She handles those brilliantly. Like when you compare those debates to the one that we saw with Biden. There's not. Not a comparison because she was brilliant. I think it's, look, I absolutely think it's people, I think don't feel ready for a female president. That's evident at the time, obviously. But I think it's also she represents to people like an elite,

like his dynasty of politics and Trump was this kind of like this wild card. He was outside the system or whatever. I mean, I think that also played a huge role that she's, you know, her and Bill Clinton had been doing this for 40, 50 years at that point, maybe not that long, but I don't know, whatever it is, yeah. And I think there was really a sense of like, well, let's shake things up, you know what I mean?

Let's see where we go with this businessman who knows how to run a company so he's going to run the country. But, yeah, look, it's just – were you surprised that she didn't run again? After 2016? No. I'm not at all. I don't think she should have run. No, because she'd already run before that.

Well, not twice, but she tried to – yeah. Yeah, she did. She ran. Not ran. She didn't run before that. Well, not twice, but she tried to, yeah. Yeah, she did. She ran. Not ran. She didn't get the nomination. No, but she ran up against Barack Obama. Yeah, no, I'm not. I mean, I just think it's so.

I think they've picked like the perceived to be safest choice you could possibly pick with Biden. But I think, I mean, it seems to be winning. Who knows? Yeah, I think if anything it's really important to vote. There's like you look at everybody else on that and I'm like, oh, man, any of these others would have been. Yeah, but I think that's not the important thing, James.

I think we need to stop focusing on that and you just need to remember wherever you stand in the political divide in America, you just need to use your voice and you need to vote. We're getting too bloody political here, Claire. I know. I'm so sorry. We used to be so unpolitical. What are we doing?

I know we spent like this whole time talking about politics. I know. I think it's fascinating because it's funny because like watching, again, I've seen bits and pieces of this. I don't watch it like you did. But I remember all these things that are like happening because I was a kid at the time. But, you know, you've got no context for it. You know what I mean? No it like you did. But I remember all these things that are like happening because I was a kid at the time. But, you know, you've got no context for it.

You know what I mean? No, you don't. The idea of hindsight is just like, yeah, he's a president. Oh, fucking, whatever, okay, whatever. Yeah, he's in The Simpsons occasionally. It's so shame. You know what I mean? That's kind of – and then seeing it from this like different lens,

it's this crazy time period, you know, and then seeing what has happened since then, you know what I mean, and just how things have changed and like there's that shift at 9-11 and then things change, you know what I mean? It's just been this. And she was there because she was a senator for New York at that time. So she did a lot for people at that point. She was really bipartisan and asked George Bush for money,

for help with everyone at that time and he just granted her money. So that was something that she was much better at than Bill Clinton, I think, working bipartisan across the aisle. I guess the difference as well, like with Bill Clinton, he looks like the president. So you're like, yeah, that's what a president looks like. He's got that JFK kind of energy, you know what I mean? I think people, that's why you put someone like that up,

do you know what I mean? Because that's what people are familiar with and used to when he's clearly not. Yeah, and I think that's clearly the point of watching that documentary and also even reading Rodham. You just understand how the depth of knowledge and skill that needs to go in to be able to getting anything achieved in politics because of the way democracies work and all the deals and bipartisan stuff you have to try and do to get anything through.

And it was immediately clear that Hillary goes straight towards policy and how can you actually get that done. Yeah. And that sometimes shoots her in the foot because she's not going to sugarcoat it and say she can do something that she can't do, you know. So like there's lots of great footage but there's a grab where a woman says to her, well, I'm burning for Bernie because you can't ban fracking.

And she says, well, I can't ban fracking as the president but I will try my best, you know, to reduce fossil fuels. Yeah. And, you know, I thought that was really interesting that, yeah, you can't just march out and just cancel an entire industry. I mean, wouldn't that be great if we could? Yeah. But anyway, I just.

The reality is it's, there needs to, I mean, if you could switch it off and switch on another thing, great. But that's not how it works. There is, there needs to be this kind of gradual, as quickly as possible, like transition. Yeah. You know? Yeah, exactly. You can't just switch that off and then there needs to be this kind of gradual, as quickly as possible, like transition. Yeah. You know? Yeah, exactly.

You can't just switch that off and then there needs to be alternatives. Yeah, exactly. Which there are but it's not the infrastructure. Correct. Anyway, I think let's keep moving on but I think it's really worth reading Rodham by Curtis Sittenfeld and also watching the Hillary documentary. It's on Hulu but you can also find it in Australia at the moment on SBS. Yes.

We can wait for clean water solutions. Or we can engineer access to clean water. We can acknowledge Indigenous cultures. Or we can learn from Indigenous voices. We can demand more from the earth. Or we can demand more from ourselves. At York University, we work together to create positive change for a better tomorrow. Join us at yorku.ca slash write the future. to put this ad spot in here. She'll never know. Did I do this joke already on a different podcast? It's neither here nor there.

Look, we all know how a VPN protects your privacy and security online. We all know that. But what you may not know, and this has taken my TV game to the next level, you can actually use a VPN to unlock movies and shows that are only available in other countries. So coming up this week, there's the new season of

Star Trek Discovery. And I'm not sure where you are and what you're about, but in Australia, you can actually watch that on Netflix. So if you're somewhere in the world who doesn't have easy access to that, or really anything, switch on ExpressVPN, set it to the country you want, in this case, Australia for Star Trek Discovery, and off you go. And if you're like, Star Trek, that's for nerds. Sure, that's true. But what you could watch, you know, in this case, Australia for Star Trek Discovery, and off you go. And if you're like, Star Trek, that's for nerds. Sure, that's true. But what you could watch, you know, that bloody documentary Claire was banging on about, the Hillary series, it is available on the SBS app, which is an Australian app, or through Hulu.

So there you go. Express VPN also hides your IP address and lets you control where you want sites to think you're located. And you can choose from almost 100 different countries. So just think about all the Netflix libraries that you can go through. Love anime? Use ExpressVPN to access Japanese Netflix and be spirited away like the movie Spirited Away. But it's not just about Netflix. ExpressVPN also works with other streaming services. Hulu, BBC iPlayer, YouTube, you name it. There are hundreds of VPNs out there.

But one of the reasons, one of the key main reasons I use ExpressVPN is to watch shows, and it's ridiculously fast. There's never any buffering or lag. It's as fast as my internet is, which can be spotty at times, to be fair, but that is not the fault of ExpressVPN. It's never failed me. And also, you can stream in HD, no problem at all. ExpressVPN is also compatible with all your devices, phones, media consoles, smart TVs, and more. So you can watch what you want on the go or on the big screen, wherever you are really, probably at home, because you know, there's things going on in the world. And guess what?

You can actually visit our special link at expressvpn.com slash suggestible, and you can actually get an extra three months of ExpressVPN for free. So that supports this show, and you can watch what you want as well as protect yourself and your privacy at ExpressVPN.com slash suggestible. Oh, Claire's coming back on with the show, I guess. Okay, your turn. Yeah, let's steer away from politics. Yes, please. We're not going to do any more politics until the election.

Deal? Deal. No deal. No deal. Okay, I watched On the Basis of Sex, the Ruth Bader Ginsburg story. Oh, God. More apologies to poor people at home. I thought it was great.

Mimi Ledder directed it, stars Felicity Jones and Armie Hammer. You've obviously seen this. Felicity Jones is great. She's kind of quietly awesome in everything. You know what I mean? She's good in that Star Wars movie even though it's not a great movie and she's not given that much to do. Have you seen that movie with Anton Yelchin?

It's like a sad kind of love story about like deportation and she's from England and whatever. Oh, yes. It's really great. I can't remember what it's called. It's really good. But anyway, you know what reminded me of a lot of things that you've talked about there in terms of like who's the more capable one out of the two.

It also reminded me of that show Dear John Season 2, except they both like each other and support each other because that show is all about she builds up her husband and then he becomes a successful lawyer and then he just leaves her. She's got nothing. But this is so – I didn't really know anything about her. Like, you know, you learn bits and pieces. About Ruth Bagan's bag, yeah.

Yeah, obviously since she died. But it's that same situation of she was the smartest person at law school, like better than her husband who, you know, was a nice guy but better than everybody else, graduated top of her class in Cambridge and Harvard, was it? I can't remember. Then after that she can't get hired off the back of being a woman even though she is like because there's a lot of perception of like,

well, you know, you're going to have kids and you'll leave or even though she already had a kid or like we already hired a woman last year, you know, all those kinds of things. And what was also like mind-blowing to me was while I was studying, her husband gets cancer and she ends up with a kid. She attends his classes, her classes, goes home, helps him with his study, does her own study, looks after the kid and then gets them both through law school, which is amazing. And he goes on to get this job and she can't. So she ends up going up, going to teach. But then she takes on this case of where it's about the basis of sex

in terms of it's gender discrimination, but from the perspective of a man, and that's the way they push through the gender discrimination exists. And that's how she kind of makes her way in initially. And it's just a really fascinating story. And like, it's mostly true. I mean, it's dramatized and whatever, but what an incredible life that she lived.

You know what I mean? And it's just, yeah, it's just, if you haven't seen it, which I'm sure a lot of people have by now, it came out a couple of years ago, but yeah, what an amazing woman and legacy and what a very inconvenient time to die. And I think that's part of the point, isn't it? When you look at Ruth Bader Ginsburg's life, of the point, isn't it, when you look at Ruth Bader Ginsburg's life, how perfect do you have to be to be a woman and be respected and how mediocre can you be as a man and get very far, particularly a white man? Get by on a handshake and a drink down the pub or whatever.

Yeah, and I'm not saying that men don't work in a husband's way. No, of course. They absolutely do, you know, And are very deserving of careers. But Ruth Bader Ginsburg often says, well, I'm not asking for special favours. I'm just asking you to take your foot off my neck. Exactly. And look, I know you've probably said this before. We'll check her quote.

Yeah. But like a lot of people said this, including you, that like I think of the people who are representing us, you know, shouldn't it be reflective of the population? And, you know, at the very least shouldn't you have, you know, among others it be reflective of the population? And, you know, at the very least, shouldn't you have, you know, among others, but some women there, considering that they are 51% of the population if you're making these decisions, you know what I mean? Yeah.

So it's just, it's kind of baffling, really. I mean, it's not surprising, but I know because there's a lot of people who say, well, you know, technically, you can't technically, you know, discriminate on the basis of gender or sex or, you know, any spectrum, whatever you want to call it. But it's clearly, it might not be there set in stone in law, but it clearly does still happen. You know what I mean? You still see it in the way that who's in charge,

who's making the decisions, who gets elected, you know what I mean, what agendas are pushed and all these different kinds of things. I think the majority of people are very much like we don't really care who gets married or, you know what I mean, in terms of like, yeah, if two people love each other, whatever, you know what I mean? But I think a lot of the times the people that are in power represent a minority, you know what I mean? Yeah, and I think you can see that highlighted recently.

Oh, we're talking so much about politics. I love politics. We're not even being funny. We're just being serious. Oh, God. Anyway, you can see that reflected in our recent budget. So Australia recently released its latest budget, which is supposed to be like the most important budget in a generation

because of what's happened globally with the pandemic and particularly locally with our local economy. Anyway, and you can see what happened in there because it absolutely kind of misses out women's supporting women's roles and childcare particularly, even though they're spending like trillions, literally trillions of dollars. Well, I mean if you want to get anywhere and you've got kids, you need childcare. That's a reality, you know?

Yeah, exactly, exactly right. And I think that a lot of political commentators have made the point and I think it's really true because there were no or very few women in that room who've actually had to A, book childcare, B, know how expensive it is, and C, had to make that difficult choice about working three or part-time because the last two days of childcare aren't subsidised by the government, which means that really they make them null and void because the amount of money you pay to childcare negates the money

you earn for those two days. Yeah. Because, like, the women aren't in the room, you can't, it's not that necessarily they're purposely overlooking it, it's that you don't have another perspective. And it's the same with minorities. If you don't have, you know, a diverse group of people making decisions in a room on a committee, how can you possibly make policy that is reflective and inclusive of everybody because it isn't your life experience, you know?

I think a really good example of that when they brought in the GST in the mid to late 90s. Oh, yeah, that 10% tax that we pay and they tax tampons and sanitary products. Because they weren't necessary items. They weren't considered. I mean, that's recently changed, like very recently changed. Very recently changed. But that's like, that's crazy.

What do you mean like not necessary? Yeah, exactly. A luxury item. A luxury item. Yeah. Oh, my God, it's so luxurious. Yeah, exactly. A luxury item. A luxury item. Oh my God, it's so luxurious. Yeah. And look, it goes on and on. There's so many examples of this. I just think that when we think about female leadership and female leaders, I think it's always really important just to think that voice in your head that says, yeah, but I just don't like her. Don't really like her. Don't know why. Just rubs me out the wrong way.

Think about where that voice is coming from and why that really is the case. And I think I've – Is it a haircut? But I've actually, to be perfectly fair, talking about Hillary Clinton, I've had that same reaction where I've gone, I just don't know if I like her that much. A bit abrasive, isn't she? Yeah.

Yeah, or something. And then you deep down examine that and you look at where that comes from and sometimes we all have a bit of internalised misogyny. Have you read the letter? Because we were talking about Ruth Bader Ginsburg and their husband, Marty, and their relationship is so beautiful. I looked into when he died, like 2010. I'm like, oh, good, I guess.

Like he lived that long. Yeah, well, can I read you? She recently discovered this letter in a drawer next to her husband's bed. She recently did? Did you see this? Oh, wow. No, I haven't seen this. It says, so Gisberg found this and it reads,

My dearest Ruth, you are the only person I have loved in my life. Setting aside a bit parents and kids and their kids, I have admired and loved you almost since the day we met at Cornell some 56 years ago. What a treat it has been to watch you progress to the very top of the legal world. I will be in John Hopkins Medical Center until Friday, June 25th, I believe. And in between now and then, I shall think hard on my remaining health and life and consider on balance the time has come for me to tough it out or take leave of life because a loss of quality now simply overwhelms. I hope you'll support where I come out, but I understand you may not.

I will not love you a jot less. Oh my goodness. When did he write that? He wrote it just before he died. Oh man. Very well spoken. I could never write something like that. Give me a hundred years. I'd be like, hey, you're pretty good. I like what you're about. It's just always beautiful. I think the reason I love it so much. Imagine liking somebody that much. No, but what I love about it is that rather than being threatened by her intelligence of success, he is her greatest supporter.

I think that's cool. I don't know. I never understand that thing of like I know some people get like jealous or upset if like their partner does better than them. I think that's great. I think that takes the burden off. I think it's like my partner earns more money than me. Thank God.

Oh, God, good. Good. I can just like pull back a little bit. It's always been. I mean because I always just assumed that would be the case because, you know, being a teacher and I'm like, well, I'll be a teacher, but Claire will be like the head of teaching in Australia or something. No, which turns out not to be the case at all.

Yet. No, but I just think that supporting each other, hey, is the best. They often say that with women that the most, and Caitlin Moran, who's this awesome writer, she's got a great book, I can't wait to read this, it's come out fairly recently. She has a column in the UK but she talks a lot to young women about how important it is to choose the right partner and don't for a second marry the bad boy.

Fuck no, that guy's a loser. Because the bad boy is the guy that will end up with you having to do all of the work, the kid raising and the cooking and the cleaning and all of the things. You want an equal partner because so really the person that you marry or end up with, whether you get married or not, will determine what your life will be like. I think that goes for whoever you marry, obviously.

Yeah, totally. I totally agree on both sides. But I think it's particularly true for women because we have the babies. Anyway, thank you, mate, because you're a bloody excellent partner. I don't know. And whenever I wanted to, in all of my harebrained schemes, you're always like, definitely. And now I know why, because you want me to earn more money

so you can put your feet up and play Nintendo. Put my feet up, get some childcare, take five days off during the week. Play Nintendo. Anyway, okay, that's been highly political. We promise not to keep talking about politics for the whole time. I'm going to get so political. Look, people seem to be mostly on board with it. And we have had some emails from people who are more conservative

who have been very respectful and understanding of their own opinions, which obviously people are very entitled to do, and make great points, quite frankly. Yeah, absolutely. We got a really lovely email from a guy called Ryan McKenzie. I won't read it out, but I really appreciated him writing in with his story. He stands a different position to us politically but he's voting

and he talked about the importance of voting and it was a really polite email. And I think that's the thing, right? You have to care. You have to get in there and you have to vote and you have to show up for what you believe to be right. Yes. And kindness and compassion, important.

Anyway, all right, you go first, Lou, with the review. How much time is left? Not too much time. I had a long one to talk about but I'll save it next week. I'll quickly talk about the exercise bike that we got, Claire. It's garbage. It's garbage. It's no good.

Get a proper one. Don't buy like an Al Cheapo one or whatever. I was talking to a guy at the park today. He was like, you should have got a secondhand one or whatever. I'm like, this firsthand one barely fucking works. I'm not getting a secondhand bike. But anyway, I'm just pumping out some cardio. Like I do my exercise in the morning.

It's more of a weight-based session, you know that, Claire? And then maybe some high-intensity cardio mixed in. Yeah. Throw in 30 minutes of bike riding at night, really work up a sweat, and the reason you do that is because you can eat more food. So that's why I've been doing it, essentially. And then get into bed all sweaty next to your poor, suffering wife. No, I have a shower before bed, Claire.

You know that. I know nothing says romance like on a Friday night when our little person was staying at his nan at bars, and we get some takeaway, and I'm sitting there waiting for you to finish while you're sweating it out next to me on a bike. On a rickety bike. I should have just spent a bunch more money on it because it like clicks weirdly and it rocks from side to side. I feel like I'm going to fall off it in any second.

But anyway, also I hate it. I hate it. It's no good. It's boring. You can't really watch something properly because you can't really hear it because the bike is like whirring away. So I'm putting subtitles on but I can't. Yeah, you should have got a proper one.

Yeah. I don't know. See, I love cycle class but I put music on. High intensity, mate. Get the case out. Smash them. But I set it to 30 minutes and I just like don't look at your phone, don't look at your phone, don't look at your phone.

I look and it's like 24 minutes left and I'm like, ah, fucking shouldn't have looked at it. Shouldn't have looked at it. Shouldn't have looked at it. That's why a cycle class is good. I like they turn the lights down and they yell at you. Cool. I'm all for that. And then they do a lot of like imaginary kind of hill climbs

and different paces. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think you would like that. It would get you through in 30 minutes because you do like turn up the resistance and really stomp it out slowly. And you helped me with my form as well because I'm all hunched over like a gremlin on the bike. Yeah, did that help you?

It did a lot. So like keeping my back straight and pull my shoulders back and not like grip the handlebars too tightly, just have them resting, which is what I've been doing. Yeah, you're supposed to be able to lift your hands up. Yeah, and that knot on my back has mostly disappeared. It's great being married to a smart woman. That's so great.

I'll be right. I'll be looking like a hunchback man on that bloody thing. Hunchback of Notre Dame. Anyway, it's just, again, just another extra thing to add to my life to stop myself from dying. But then I'll probably like, I'll get hit 43 and it's like, guess what, you got hit by a bus bitch. You're dead. And I'm like

god damn it, why did I spend so much time cycling when I could have been eating cornflakes? Look, are you serious? I can always tell your mental state with how many bowls of cornflakes you're eating. I've eaten several cornflakes, man. You're just like I go to the cupboard.

You are. I reckon you've had three today. I've had one today. Already? You're going to have another one. No, I'm having that low-cal ice cream after I do my cycling. God, your life is a series of depressing things. I'm a miserable prick.

I'm going to share two smoothie recipes super quickly. I love smoothies. I know. These are my two favourites. They're from Heidi Tseur, Nurturing Your New Life, which I love and I've recommended before her book. It's got great recipes in it and it's awesome for new mums. It's just all about looking after yourself, which I'm all on board for.

Me too. But this particular green smoothie I'm going to share because it's a bloody revelation. I have not been on board with smoothies. I find them kind of gross. However, this one, delish. Three quarters of a cup coconut milk, handful of baby spinach leaves, one frozen banana, one whole kiwi fruit, quarter of an avocado,

one tablespoon of hemp seeds, James, hemp seeds, and a half a cup of frozen mango pieces. And let me tell you, it is so delicious. I've been having one almost every day. It's true. You've been banging on about smoothies, but you don't chuck any protein powder in it? I hate protein powder. It's gross.

You should just separate those things then. Like just get the, if you are, are you doing protein powder at the moment? No, I've stopped because I hate it. It makes my skin feel yuck. But the hemp seeds, they're like the bit of protein in there. Just a bit. And also the other one is a banana oat smoothie, which I'll share next week, but it's really good too.

Very good. All right. I have an email. Oh, well, do you want me to do reviews before emails? No, I'm going to buck the trends. That's not how it works. Okay, go on. Buck it.

Buck away. Okay, so if you want to email the show, please contact us at suggestiblepod at gmail.com. This one is from Joseph and it reads, Hi, James and Claire. Just wanted to reach out and say thanks for all the fantastic suggestibles you've shared in the past year or so. I'm immunocompromised and face certain difficulties getting out of the house

at the best of times. And as you may have noticed, it is not currently the best of times. I have noticed. During the pandemic, your weekly antics and recommendations have become the best of times. And as you may have noticed, it is not currently the best of times. I have noticed. During the pandemic, your weekly antics and recommendations have become the highlight of my week. Don't tell the weekly planet. I won't. I've been revisiting your past episodes and was struck

by something James said in the best of 2019. Claire wanted to recommend some music, but James lamented not knowing anything about music anymore and being bad at listening to modern music. I felt that in my bones, but I've also been lucky to stumble across a few artists I really love and so I'd like to suggest the band Sylvan Esso who have a very recent new album and their song Rooftop Dancing really hits me in my increasingly frayed emotions.

We're all there with you, mate. That sounds like something you'd love, Claire. Yeah, it's the perfect style for the quarantine blues and help me realize that somewhere, sometime, we'll all be able to hit the play button on our lives. Hope you enjoy it and I hope this message finds you and your lovely family well. What a beautiful letter.

I know. And I hope you're doing all right out there, Joseph. Thanks for your email. We really appreciate it. I also appreciate it. And I don't appreciate you. Okay. No, I do. We've got really appreciate it. I also appreciate it. And I don't appreciate you. Okay. We got some reviews here. I appreciate you.

I don't appreciate you farting everywhere all the time. It's you, if anything. No. So listen, if you want to review the show, even though it's too political, you can. We appreciate that. I was going to say Weekly Planet Pod. That's a different thing that I do. You can just do it in app. Just open it up, five stars if you want.

Boom, bang it out. This one is from GM Kelly. He says, thank you. Nothing profound to say about these two and their wonderful podcast. I really enjoy their banter, humour and willingness to sit in a room together and give each other something to check out. I would also love to suggest to you the book, The First 15 Lives of Harry August by Claire North.

And this other one says, this is from DvazQ43, this is my jam. The Mario bit was my jam. As is everything Claire talks about always. Keep it up, guys. Diego from California. So, yeah, reviews really help. Really appreciate it.

They do. And thanks, Diego. We really appreciate you. We'll be back next week where we'll talk about other things. I know. We have to go back on brands. We've stepped off brand. We've got too serious.

Claire, it's a very political month. People love that. Do they? No, people fucking hate it. I know. But all I will say. I can't wait till it's over. I know.

One thing I did see online recently is if you are voting by mail, make sure you use there's like a secret envelope that you have to put your voting slip into and then put it into the bigger envelope. Yeah, because if you don't, it's called like a privacy envelope or security envelope or something. But if you don't put it in the first envelope and then put that envelope in the big envelope, they won't count your vote.

And if you don't sign the back of the envelope, they also won't count it. So make sure you do all that. Makes sense. I know. I mean, I think all the instructions are there when you count your vote. And if you don't sign the back of the envelope, they also won't count it. So make sure you do all that. Makes sense. I know. I mean, I think all the instructions are there when you get your, like, mail-in ballot. Yeah, but it reads anything.

I don't really read instructions. I'm just letting people know. No, no, you're right. It's good to know. I used to say that, like, when I – because we used to do NAPLAN. This is off topic. But, you know, NAPLAN? I remember.

I'm familiar. I was a teacher. Yeah, you know what? It's basically like a standardized test that they have to do and it's awful and the kids hate it and it's really stressful and some of them really freak out about it, which they shouldn't, but also it's reflective of how much money the school gets and how well it's going.

Yeah, man, yeah, yeah. Anyway, a lot of it was just like read the question. Like it's almost always a trick. Read the question properly. Look at it properly because a lot of the time, you know, kids are just like, yep. I do that all the time. I'm like, yep, whatever. Read it properly.

Read your instructions properly. What's my point? I don't have any. Fuck that plan. That's my point. We're full of advice today, aren't we? Yeah. But, yeah, read the – that's a very good metaphor for life.

Read the instructions. Sometimes the instructions are wrong. Often they're not. But usually they're right. All right, see you. All right. So long. It's okay.

He's yawning a lot. You're very tired. I am. Will you write me a letter on your deathbed? Dear Claire, empty my bedpan. Onto your head? Delightfully sure. No, empty my bedpan. Onto your head. Delightfully sure. No, bring me a hot towel.

How much do you love a hot towel on your face? Like when you go on a plane and they give you a hot towel. Yeah, I mean when in the year 2050 we'll be able to go on planes again. Maybe I should do that. Or sometimes at Chinese restaurants they would give you like a hot towel. A hot towel. In the 90s when I used to go to Chinese restaurants with my mum and dad. Sometimes I still do.

And we'd get fried ice cream. Oh, my God, I love fried ice cream. How good is that when they set it alight? Yeah. I don't know if it's traditionally Chinese. It's not. It's like not a Chinese thing like at all. No, but I used to go.

We used to get taken over a bit. But neither are fortune cookies. I think they're American maybe. That'd be right. Yeah. Those should be rush. Fortune cookies are delicious. Anyway, we've got to go. We've got to go. What have we got? We've had a long episode. Thanks That should be Roche. Fortune cookies are delicious. Anyway, we've got to go.

We've got to go. We've really got to. We've had a long episode. Thanks for editing, Collings. Thanks, Collings. As always, you've been to Jessapod. You can find me at Claire20 on Instagram and you can find James. No, you can't find me.

This is Sunday Movies on our YouTubies. Leave me alone. So long. Goodbye. Farewell. This podcast is part of the Planet Broadcasting Network. Visit planetbroadcasting.com for more podcasts from our great mates. I mean, if you want.

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