Suggestible - Promising Young Woman

Episode Date: February 4, 2021

Suggestible things to watch, read and listen to hosted by James Clement @mrsundaymovies and Claire Tonti @clairetonti.This week's Suggestible is Promising Young Woman (spoilers from 21 minutes).Send your recommendations to [e-mail], we’d love to hear them.You can also follow the show on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook @suggestiblepod and join our ‘Planet Broadcasting Great Mates OFFICIAL’ Facebook Group. So many things. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hey folks, it's Mark Maron from WTF. I travel all over North America doing stand-up and it's always good to know Airbnb is an option when I'm away from home. But if you're away from home, why not take your own place and Airbnb it? Airbnb your whole home to make some extra cash. Or if you have a spare room that's not in use, just Airbnb that. Whether you could use extra money to cover some bills or for something a little more fun, your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at airbnb.ca slash host. Hello. Just popping into your ears before this episode starts to put a little disclaimer in.

We discussed the film Promising Young Woman, and it has some very heavy themes of suicide and rape within this episode. So if this brings anything up for you at all, please contact Lifeline or the equivalent in your country. And if you aren't into listening to something heavy, what should they do, James? Just listen to something else. Find a different thing.

Listen to The Sound of a Rainbow. Or Nature Sounds, which is your favourite thing to do. Or our Best of All episode again that just played recently. Exactly last week. So we'll do a lighter one next week. We promise. Correct, exactly. There's some jokes in it.

Don't you worry about it. I think like it's good to have the warning 100% but I don't think it's as grim as you think it is. I think it's like very grim. I think it's an important conversation to have. It absolutely is. I would totally agree with that. Also watch it if you haven't seen it.

We say that in the episode but watch it if you haven't seen it. Yes, before we talk about it. I would totally, totally do that. Okay. All right. On with the show. On with the show. Bing bong, bing bong, bing bong, bing.

Bong, bong, bong, bong. We've missed our bing bongs. And when I say our, I mean my bing bongs. I have missed them, yeah, because you do not do them off air. You refuse. It's not a joke. You literally never do it. This is the only time.

True. I sing other times, though, and things. Anyway. Leave a like. Subscribe. What? Why are you yelling? Don't tell people what to do.

I'm just used to it. It's just YouTube. We haven't done this in a while. This is more low key. This is more serious. This is like a fine wine as opposed to my other podcast. Here he goes. Anyway, let me do my actual job, which is saying hello listeners and welcome to the 2021 edition of Successful Podcast where we recommend you things. I'm Claire. Jade is here also. We are married and everything is fine. No, Claire, everything

is bad still very much. Did you notice how on the internet and I've felt in a lot of places people are like glad to see the back of that 2020 year. Here's to 2021. Arbitrary date. And not to say that there hasn't been like massive shifts in a number of things. No, to be fair.

World leaders and we haven't had bushfires, which has been fucking amazing. It's been really rainy actually, weirdly. It's been kind of nice. I know people, I got my haircut today and the hairdresser who was English was a great guy but he was like, ah, this summer sucks. And I'm like, I don't mind it. Well, it's better than ash raining from the sky. Better than 45 degrees, yeah.

The sky is green. Who knows? You never know, okay, and you're like, the sky's green. Weird. Must be bushfires probably. That's the most I've heard you ever talk about the sky. I don't like looking at the sky. You always think it's bloody overrated.

It's no good. I look at it. The joke never gets old. Anyway, we've got to recommend some things, which is what we do. All right, just before we do, James, I have a question. I have questions. Are you refreshed from our break? Yeah, I am a little bit.

I'm even more refreshed because our son has started school. So we've got some of our days back. And don't get me wrong, like. Freedom. I love hanging out. Freedom. Like we had today together and, you know, we went and did some, we got haircuts and we got the book from the Treehouse Bar series,

which we'll probably recommend at some point. We did already recommend it. Oh, cool, okay. Yeah, with Andy Griffiths and Terry Denton. And we're gearing up for the new Mario game next week, so we're very excited to go get that. He's got a Mario calendar and he knows. He doesn't even really know what month it is,

but he knows what date the Mario game comes out. We've marked it on, yeah, we've marked it on. 12th of Feb. My favourite moment of him starting school, and I promise we will get to our recommendations in one little second, was when I said he will not say anything about school. Other kids were in their uniforms already, so bloody excited. He's got a mate who's like jumping out of his skin to go there.

He's a closed book, mate. Yeah, I wonder where he gets that from. Bloody. Anyway, and I've been asking. Everyone gives him big school energy. Are you excited about school? And he just gives them a look and pretends he hasn't heard them. So I thought I'll take a different tact at dinner.

I'll ask him a different way. I said, mate, do you have any questions about school? Thinking surely the kid will have some questions. Absolutely. Surely. And he said, no, but I have questions about the new Mario game. He knows his own mind. I'm okay with that.

He is Sonny James' son. I love it. Enough of that chit-chat-chatter. School's a trap anyway. I'm not going to tell him that for a while. Oh, God. But, yeah, it's true. So have you started?

No, primary school I actually have a different opinion on. A good primary school, a good 80s school is terrific, but primary school, if you do it properly and it's all play-based and all that can be really terrific. Everything, which I think he's going to a really good one. I agree. I did love, however, how much he also is your son when he, the second day he rocked around, he didn't like his school uniform because the shorts are too big because they're always too big on the first, like, little kids. And he just looked at me and he's like,

Mum, what would happen if I didn't wear my uniform? Like in this really deadpan look, like a real adult curiosity. I was like, mate, you wouldn't be allowed in. They'd be sending you to the principal's office and straight home. He's like, damn it. I love that question though because it's like, yeah, it's an arbitrary thing. Uniforms do suck.

He's already figured it out. I told him, I'm like, look, it's just easier. You put it on and then you'd have to think about it. But he's still like, I don't know about this. And I'm like, no, you're right. It's not good. I'm not going to lie to you. It's bad.

Yeah. All the other kids are just like eating ice cream in their school uniform and our son had to go home, take it off and come back. He's not one for the rules, mate. He lives outside them. I love it. Because his dad's been subtly telling him school is a trap forever. I haven't been telling him nothing.

I'm exciting it up for him. And it's good. School can be really great. Anyway, we've got to recommend some stuff. We do. We've done enough banter up top, Claire. Yeah, all right. So would you like to go first, gentlemen?

I think we're talking about the same thing, aren't we? So we could probably do this together. Your butt. I'm not. I talk about my butt all day. That's a pretty good one. It's all right. Okay, so I've been researching your butt.

I could do with a shave. It just takes a while. It does look slightly like you're wearing a hairy pair of pants. But that's all right. We are talking about the same show actually, well, film, if that's the one you're referring to. The wonderful Kerry Mulligan stars in this brilliant film called Promising Young Woman that you saw first.

I did. I directed by Emerald Fennell. Yes. She's an English actor, director, writer. Screenwriter, producer, showrunner. My God. She's 35 as well, which is your age. She's done way more than you.

Oh, my God. It's so depressing. She's born like a month after me or something. And she's younger? Oh, my God. Yes. I actually would have filmed this later. And guess all the things that she's done, this woman.

So she wrote, produced and directed this particular film, which everyone's raving about. It's a brilliant dark comedy thriller. Last year, it would have been my favourite movie of last year. Whoa. Yeah. Be cool. Currently from the two movies I've seen this year,

it's definitely my favourite. It's brilliant. I mean it's very disturbing but it's brilliant. So Emerald appeared in this amount of things, Albert Nobbs, Anna Karenina, The Danish Girl, Vida and Virginia, but her biggest roles were in Call the Midwife, which your mum and my mum bloody love. Oh, my God. And in the Netflix.

They should start a podcast. They can call it Mother-in-Law's Call the Midwife. Mother-in-Law's Review the Midwife. All the shows on the ABC. Yeah, exactly. Correct. Anyway, she stars as Camilla Puckab Bowles or Camilla Shand in The Crown. I didn't know that.

Yes. She's bloody amazing. Then she was the showrunner on Killing Eve, which is like another amazing BBC American thriller series written by Phoebe Waller-Bridge. I still haven't watched Killing Eve because I heard it does go off the rails. It does. I think there's a third season.

Yeah, not so good. Phoebe Waller-Bridge actually leaves the writing team and that's I reckon when it goes downhill. But, yeah, she earned two Primetime Emmy Award nominations for her show running in that particular series. Terrific and fantastic. So just like a bloody genius, this woman. And she's written books, all kinds of things.

Anyway, this I feel is her best thing yet. I've seen some of those things and I would definitely agree. So do you want to say the premise of Promising Young Woman? Correct. I can read you no spoilers and I want to do some spoilers because some of the stuff I do want to talk about is in spoilers. All right, okay. So I would say if you haven't seen it and you don't want to know anything,

which I would say probably not. I'd seen the trailer and that's it. And even then it was very surprising. So I would say if you've heard a little bit about it and you've heard it's really good, or you've heard it from us, I would say skip ahead. Collings will put in a time code, I think. Thank you, Collings. Correct.

Anyway, sorry, go on. Yeah, it's super worth it. So Margot Robbie, I forgot to mention as well, served as a producer through her Lucky Chap Entertainment Production Company as well. So it's just like. There's been some controversy there, not because of Margot Robbie. Oh, my goodness.

We'll talk about that as well. Ridiculous. Anyway, so the film stars Carrie Margot again and she plays a woman who is seeking revenge for her best friend who was a victim of rape in college. So basically she is pretending to be blackout drunk in bars. This is also sort of not unrelated but it's not a direct revenge, it's more like a general thing that she does as an outlet, I guess.

Yeah, correct, exactly. Anyway, sorry. And so I won't explain exactly what happened to her friend but it's clear from the outset something happened to her and she committed suicide. And so Kerry Mulligan's character then proceeds to pretend that she's really drunk. Guys kind of sort of come over to take her, well,

in a way to like pick her up or see if she's okay. She repeatedly says, I'm feeling really drunk, I'm not feeling very well. They eventually take her back to their house and they're about to kind of take advantage of her and then she wakes up and is just stone cold sober. And then they kind of have this reckoning moment each time where she really gives them a serve of her mind and makes them really think about whether they actually

are the good guy. And that's what I love about this. So often there are moments where it's quite blurry whether, like initially you think that the blokes might actually be all right. And you can see how men kind of can get themselves in those particular situations. And a lot of that is also to do with casting because one of the people, one of the first one that she brings back is Adam Brody from the OC. And he's like a cool, fun guy and he's a nice guy and he's quirky and whatever. And even at the start he's like talking to his friends about a work colleague who's complaining about how they're always having boys only golfing trips

and business deals are being made there and he's like, no, no, but guys we really should include her. And he's being like, you know, very woke. And I think that's the point in this that the casting is so clever, it's surprising at every turn who they choose and I think for a very good reason. Everybody who you cast is like almost against type, I would say, like every single person that you're like, oh, I like that.

Oh, no. Yeah, absolutely. It's not everybody but there's a lot of them that, yeah. Yeah, I think it's really interesting. Bo Burnham in this plays her love interest, which isn't a spoiler because it happens quite early in the show. And I won't go into exactly what happens with his storyline, but it's really interesting because he's quite nerdy and quite funny.

It's such a witty, clever script. Yeah. And Kerry Mulligan's character is so dry and deadpan in the way that she delivers her lines. And because she's so beautiful as well, it's this kind of juxtaposition too I think of being able to cleverly, I don't know, kind of disguise her brains. And this is the way I read the like because she dresses up like, you know, like she's clubbing with like the eye, like smeared eyeliner

and like the short skirts and whatever. There's like a trap essentially to like so guys think that like, oh, this is an easy target or whatever. This is just some drunk bird, who cares, whatever. But also like because you find out kind of later on that she wasn't always considered beautiful. Like people didn't really look at her the way that they looked at her friend, for example.

And you see that she's kind of changed into this person, how she just presents herself every day as a weapon. She's like weaponised the way that she looks to like effectively like target individuals so that she can do this, like either so she can't be recognised or so that, you know, she's seemingly being preyed upon but she's in fact the one who's doing the hunting. Yeah.

What I thought was really interesting, I listened to her being interviewed by Dax Shepard who hadn't actually seen the movie which I will rant about that with you recently. Obviously, you know. Because you were looking forward to it. You're like, yeah. It's going to be a great show. And look, the actual interview on his podcast, Armchair Expert,

is really great and it goes into Kerry Mulligan's backstory and what she's done and her career is so diverse. I mean, she did Drive. She did do Drive. I like Drive, yeah. She's amazing in that and she talks about how amazing. She's in the best episode of Doctor Who. She talks about that exact episode and how that was kind of her big break,

really. Oh, really? Yeah, because she also did The Great Gatsby too. Oh, the DiCaprio one? Yeah, the DiCaprio one. I've never seen that. Yeah. Look, I liked it but I like that kind of period sort of stuff.

But, yeah, she talks a lot about drive and how she was at the time. It was kind of her dream role. She was living in a hotel which she thought was like really kind of romantic in Hollywood. Yeah. And she was going on set every day to talk to – who's the guy that's in that? Ryan Gosling. Ryan Gosling, dear God, like every woman's dream.

And she talked a little bit about like the scene where they kiss in the elevator. Yeah. And she was just like, yeah, I was single at the time and it was literally the most amazing thing in my whole life, which I thought was like really interesting. Anyway, but, yeah, he hadn't actually seen the film. But what she does say about her role in Promising Young Woman is how

frustrating it is that it's actually just it could just be framed as a classic revenge movie. But because it's from a woman's perspective dealing with actually a very, very common occurrence for women, which she said is also kind of depressing, it's not like the stuff that happens in this show is unusual. No. Like it not like the stuff that happens in this show is unusual. No. Like it happens all the time.

But because it's from a woman's perspective, it's seen as unusual and also then she's expected to kind of be an expert on this particular area of, you know, sort of sexual relationships, I guess, and consent and those blurry lines and sexual abuse and all of those sorts of things. So I thought it was just a really interesting discussion. And also I think a good point to make, if you're an actor playing a role, people can assign an expertise to you that you don't actually have. Yeah.

And she said she's never experienced anything like that, but she did get asked, you know, is this something, were you drawing on personal experience? And she's like, no. Luckily enough, this hasn't happened to me. But she knows people that it's happened to. Absolutely. I know people that it's happened to.

As all women do. Yeah. You know, it's a really common occurrence. What did you think of Alison Bray's character? Yeah, really, yeah. So really interesting. Again, kind of against type because she's kind of like the girl next door, kind of whatever.

And she like is that also in this. But there is this like. Underlying theme. Yeah, which kind of. Again, I feel like you should watch this before we kind of like, even though we're only touching on like surface level kind of stuff, you probably should watch it even if you haven't decided at this point. But, yeah, like everybody, really well cast because she's from like community

and, you know, she does like like, fun, bubbly characters. That's not all she does, obviously. She's done a number of. She's in The Rental recently that we watched as well. Yeah, which is my list of things I want to talk about here. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so Alison Brie's character is a friend sort of in the friendship circle

around Carey Mulligan's character, Cassie, and her friend, Nina, who is the victim of rape and subsequently suicided. And so it's kind of interesting to watch that storyline play out and it kind of feels like a familiar thing where something can happen within a group of friends. I know that it's happened to friends of mine within their friendship group where something's happened between two people and maybe it's a bit blurry and you're not really sure exactly

whose side to go on. It can be someone that you actually care about, particularly if it's the bloke. And then do you stay friends with them, do you not? And it happened a long time. You know, all those kinds of things. I thought that was a really interesting discussion to bring up and I think everyone.

And they're all like, we were kids. Yeah, we were kids. And everyone was. We were all partying. Yeah, and we were all super drunk. And then, and I think it does bring up, and I talk about Chanel Miller quite a bit who wrote that book, Say My Name. Yeah.

But she was blackout drunk when she was sexually assaulted. And that's that same storyline that kind of comes up again. Connie Britton plays a university administrator and plays that role really well because she brings up that whole kind of tired idea that, oh, well, she was just super drunk and she shouldn't have been in that situation, you know. And you'd hate to ruin somebody's life. Yeah, young man's life actually.

Exactly, yeah. Which is what Chanel Miller heard a lot, oh, but you don't want to ruin a young man's life over one incident, you know, that kind of horrible idea really that's embedded in our culture and particularly in university culture, especially in America. They have a huge problem. I mean, Connie Britton's character says that they have two of these allegations a week and that's quite standard, I think,

for a lot of American colleges. So it's a huge problem when you have so many young people on campus and there's an underlying kind of culture with men and with young men, I think, in these kind of situations. Yeah, and I think a lot of it is and because we talked about this, I don't know, we watched this like two weeks ago, but we've been talking about it a lot. We have, yeah.

And a lot of the films and like media that we grew up with kind of lent towards this like the girl who's like blackout drunk or whatever and the walk of shame and like, you know, you American pies. I mean they're basically just, they're all horrible criminals who should be in jail. Well, they're just looking for the super drunk girl to lose their virginity to basically. That's like, that's a, I think even that's in This Is 40.

Yeah, it is, yeah. It's in a lot of films. And it becomes like, I don't know, it's kind of like a narrative that everybody kind of goes along with, you know what I mean? Yeah. Like you just kind of accept that this is kind of the way that it is. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I think as well in all of those films the women,

because it's only written by men when you look at it really, the script is written by men from a male gaze. And so women aren't seen as fully flesh characters, as someone's daughter or best friend who has just drunk too much and needs to be taken home and put to bed or looked after by a family and is just unwell, which has happened to all of us at different times, including blokes, everybody, they're sort of seen as like a caricature, like someone to be made fun of and taken advantage of.

And I think this film does an excellent job of making people re-examine their choices in life. There's like a moment where I heard a bit specifically talking about the Adam Brody character and he's only in it like five minutes, maybe if that at the start. But like he thinks he's in a romantic comedy like helping this girl home or whatever but he's like the only one in it, you know what I mean? Yeah, that's so true.

Yeah, I thought that was just a very, it's also really funny. Like it's like crazy funny. Yeah. Like it's so witty and so funny and so dry and it's like it's dark, like it's grim. But it's also, yeah, it's funny. It's just really, really, it's just really well written and well performed.

And I also think there's interesting like choices like her mother is played by, what is her name, Jennifer Gierkulic, who's like Stifler's mom from American Pie. She's like a sexy milf and whatever. And in this she's just like, I'm Mr Mum and I just want the best for my daughter. Like it's just, like again it's that like taking somebody who's known for a certain thing and then like twisting on it.

I think it's really interesting. Do you want to talk about spoilers though because there's like a big, a couple of big spoiler moments. I know this has just become the Promising Young Woman episode but I think that's really interesting. Do you want to talk about spoilers though because there's like a big, a couple of big spoiler moments. Yeah, there totally is. I know this has just become the Promising Young Woman episode but I think that's okay, isn't it? Yeah. Just before you do that, I did just want to say I have loved so much

the soundtrack to this as well. I think the musical choices all the way through are really clever and really spot on and add so much, I think, to the overall show. There's a particular, it's kind of ridiculous, there's a song called Stars Are Blind by Paris Hilton that I hadn't heard in a really long time. But that's the song that's played over.

There's like a montage, a kind of like romantic comedy montage that happens in the middle of the show with Bo Burnham and Carey Mulligan. And it's just the perfect song for that moment. It just fits so well. Is that from like 2004 or something like that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But there's just a lot of great songs in this that really fit. Even when at the very beginning when she's walking and doing that,

in inverted commas, walk of shame. Yeah. And she's eating a hot dog and there's sort of juice, like the sauce dripping onto her white blouse and it's kind of this incredibly strong moment and it starts playing It's Raining Men. And I kind of, there's just something really, like really fitting about that. There's a good use of the Britney Spears song Toxic, but it's like a variation on it. Yeah, which is really excellent too.

Which is really interesting. Yeah, yeah, there's just some really clever choices there that add to the film too. We can wait for clean water solutions. Or we can engineer access to clean water. We can acknowledge Indigenous cultures. Or we can learn from Indigenous voices. We can acknowledge Indigenous cultures. Or we can learn from Indigenous voices. We can demand more from the earth. Or we can demand more from ourselves.

At York University, we work together to create positive change for a better tomorrow. Join us at yorku.ca slash write the future. Sorry to interrupt everybody. It's just James. Claire has, she's not here for the ad read, but I feel like as a professional podcaster and a great person, I can do this by myself. Okay. So we know how a VPN protects your privacy and security online, right? We all know that, but I didn't know this until recently. Well, actually, that's not true. This is what the ad reads it.

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YouTube, you name it. Actually, it's great on YouTube. There's so many things that you think that you can't get on YouTube. I know in Australia, you can't watch a lot of SNL on YouTube. So you've got to switch it to switch on the US thing and then you can watch it. You know, if you want to watch that one good SNL skit every six months. Okay. There are hundreds of VPNs out there though. But the reason that we use ExpressVPN to watch shows is good SNL skit every six months. Okay, there are hundreds of VPNs out there though, but the reason that we use ExpressVPN to watch shows is it's ridiculously fast. There's never any buffering or lag and you can stream in HD no problem. ExpressVPN is also compatible with all your devices, phones, media consoles, smart TVs, and more. So you can watch what you want on the go

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Yeah, yeah, okay, go for it So again, if you still haven't watched it This is like a big moment And you shouldn't be listening to this anyway But so she finds There's a video of her friend That's unearthed through Alison Brie. It was like, yeah, it was sent around and we didn't really think anything of it.

Because basically what happened to her friend was that she was raped, she was unconscious and raped in front of every, like a whole big group of fraternity of boys and it was filmed by this one man. Who's played by Max Greenfield from New Girl. So you're like, again, it's like this fucking guy, like he's not that I've seen much of New Girl, but he's like a weird neurotic kind of like. Yeah, yeah, it's very strange.

Yeah, but that's kind of the choice too because it makes you really think you're kind of expecting some bonehead jock kind of guy and he's not that at all. I mean he is but not in the way that you'd expect. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And he clearly thinks he's the good guy, you know, as well. Just helping out his mates and whatever. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

And so it's filmed and then obviously that then gets sent around and you find out later in the film that there's actually footage of it. So the whole point of the revenge story really is for Cassie's character to avenge her friend Nina's death. Yeah. And that guy who you finally see, the guy who it is, and it's Chris Lowell and he's from, if you see, he's from Glow.

He's like the young 80s promoter guy with the hair and the rolled up sleeves and he's really nice and you see he's from glow he's like the the young 80s promoter guy with the hair and the rolled up sleeves and he's really nice and affable in that as well yeah and so again when she goes into this room where she's like posing as a stripper to like get revenge you look around and it's like him and it's like this fucking guy like and it's kind of really disarming because like he's like oh i don't want to do anything because you know i love my fiance and i'm not really into strippers or whatever. And I think it's interesting because you can be two things, you know what I mean?

He's clearly like that guy some of the time. Maybe 98% of the time he's that guy, you know what I mean? But this horrible thing that he did and got away with, she's kind of like I cannot let that slide, you know, which is, you know, you completely understand. It's interesting also because she's getting revenge but she's not, she's not killing, like it's almost reframed like a serial killer but she doesn't kill anybody.

She doesn't permanently injure anybody. I mean she does some incredible psychological damage to people but it's mostly just like just messing with people's ideas of how they perceive themselves and the world. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, do you want to say what happens? No, no, you go.

So she takes him upstairs for a private show or whatever and she's about to start like carving her friend's name into him after she explains who she is and what happened to her and that's where you get the reveal of how her friend became like a shell of herself after this. It's never fully recovered until she took her life. And then when she goes to like carve her name into him so like you can't kind of take this off, you know, he breaks his hand free from the cuffs

and he smothers her to death. And then there's like 20 minutes left of the movie. She's not in it. And she's been the complete main character. You've just followed the entire story through her eyes, through her lens the whole time and it completely shifts on itself. I thought in that moment too what was so clever was that the camera stayed right on his face.

Yeah. And from that moment you don't see her face again. No, you don't. And it just shows and it stays there like a long, uncomfortable time. It's a long smothering, which is like a smothering is. It's not like 10 seconds. It's like you've got to. Yeah, yeah.

It's very disturbing to watch. But I also think it was a really pointed statement that, you know, the statistics about women dying at the hands of men in Australia and globally is terrifying. And often it's an ex-partner or whatever. Yeah, correct. Or a partner, I should say. Yeah, exactly.

It's staggering and depressing. And I think this, and often the narrative is she shouldn't have walked there, she should have told someone. Shouldn't have dressed like that. She shouldn't have walked there, she should have told someone. Shouldn't have dressed like that. She shouldn't have stayed with him, you know, and it's on the woman to like not dress so provocatively or not get so drunk or know better or choose better. You see it all the time.

It happens all the time. Correct, exactly. And so whereas the narrative, and I think it's shifting, it's not about women having to change their behaviour. It's about looking at men and them thinking through and us giving men support. And I guess particularly, I mean, in Australia we're running a campaign where it starts with young men, very young,

about why we're ending up with men acting out in these kind of violent ways. And so it squarely puts the blame and the emphasis on him and what he's done. And then you start thinking, well, why is it he thinks he's entitled to do this? And then what kind of person would do this? And it really, yeah, then it squarely becomes about him, which I think often usually in a murder mystery or something like this where a young woman's killed, you see her body laid out on a slab and it's usually about her. And there's three people standing around and going,

you can see there's vibrations around the whatever. And it's very voyeuristic in a way and it's always sort of, you know, the narrative doesn't really land much on the killer. It's always about, you know, the victim in a way and the choices that led her to that situation. And whereas this I think, and obviously there are serial killer shows where they look at the guy but, you know. Of course, yeah.

There are exceptions to everything. Exceptions to everything. But this was so, I just thought that camera staying there was such a statement and it made me cry. I finished this movie and it really made me cry. So if you're having a hard time at the moment, this is not the film for you. Definitely not.

No, it's very full on. But what I think is also interesting. Very funny. It's very funny. It's a funny movie. And like she does, again, this is spoilers. If you're still here, what are you doing? But she set a plan in motion where in the event of her death,

the tape is revealed, her murderer will be caught, like he's arrested on his wedding day or whatever, and his buddy who helps him, like, dispose of the body, who's the guy from New Girl, they have this kind of, it's almost a tender moment where he hugs him and he's like, it's not your fault, don't worry, I'm going to take care of this. You didn't do anything wrong. And it's like, what the fuck, you talk?

Because, like, yeah, it's a scenario also where, like, if they had have just gone to the police and gone, a woman broke in and she drugged 20 of us and we're all asleep and took one of us upstairs and cuffed us and was going to carve a name into me. They would have got away with it. Do you know what I mean? Because they're so like entitled and stupid that they just go, yeah, we could burn this body in the woods and get rid of the car

and this is going to like play out okay. Do you know what I mean? Because they had gotten away with things like to that point. You know what I mean? I sort of read it that Emerald was making a point about the entitlement of men, particularly white men I think, and the fact that the allowing of the abuse that happens within university campuses and in other parts of society and say, for instance, Connie Britton's character saying, oh, but we can't let this one incident

ruin this young man's career or this young man's life, right? And so it's kind of saying there was points there where someone can step in and teach that young man about what he's done and there should have been consequences for his actions and there wasn't. And so I'm not saying that then that means everyone ends up as a murderer, but it is kind of saying why is it that we don't have consequences in those situations and ability and this is what can happen.

This is what it can lead to if as a culture and a society we don't highlight this problem when it's just, you know, some mates, you know, catcalling and making fun of a woman or when she's drunk at a bar and, you know, or targeting her in that moment, which is also not great at all. But where does that lead us and what is that saying about women in society, women's worth, respect for women's bodies, their autonomy, their ability to consent as well. And I think that's the other point this film makes,

where is the line for consent? And I think it's just so important in every situation you're in to always just ask. Just check in, mate. It's so much easier just to ask and just check in and not assume because like Adam Brody's character, he was in his own rom-com, he just assumed that she was fine with all of this and she was telling him she wasn't. Yeah.

But because her body language wasn't, you know, like super defensive, he was kind of just, I don't know, caught up in his own fantasy and thought it was fine. Yeah. And that's obviously I think something that we really need to talk about. Anyway, we've talked for ages about this. That's right. There's one more thing I want to say as well.

The way I interpreted also her death was like initially it was like this is like a suicide. You know what I mean? Like she didn't really, this was her whole purpose just to get revenge. Yeah, because she set up a whole lot of automated emails. Yeah, exactly. So this a whole lot of automated emails. Exactly. So this would all kind of unfold. And then I was reading some interviews with the director

and she was saying that, no, it wasn't that. That's not how it was intended. It was intended as in a situation like that, even with the upper hand, even when, you know, she had perceived control of the situation, at the end of the day, like an average strength man could kill a regularly strength woman. Really. I know that's a generalisation. I know that.

But that's really, that's kind of the point of that scene was that, like, she was ready and he killed her with, like, one arm. And she had a knife. Yeah, and she had a knife, yeah. So I just thought that was, like, yeah, that had a knife yeah and she had a knife yeah so i just thought that was like yeah that's a that's a better yeah i just think i i read it not as a suicide i thought that she set all of that stuff up as a backstop yeah you know like just in case something happened to her yeah absolutely i think yeah not thinking that it would yeah i think yeah and that's that's because

that wasn't even because that was my initial thought that I'm like, no, because she wouldn't have. It was like surely like she'd be clever enough to like to know that this, you know, to set it up like that. But it's like, no, she didn't want to die. And you see that when it's because I watched it again. We watched it a second time. They're like, yeah, you see she doesn't want to die in that moment.

Like, yeah. No, and also I think through the film there's a lot of markers to show that she's really struggling with her anger at the world in what happened to her friend and the grief and the loss of her friend and then how she was kind of this promising young woman in inverted commas and she kind of fell out of life because of what had happened and it kind of opened her eyes to this world that she just sees everywhere she goes.

Yeah. And there are moments in the film where she stops doing what she was doing with men getting drunk and, you know, doing that whole revenge stuff and you kind of see her starting to recover herself. Yeah. And then something else happens and she ends up taking the ultimate revenge. Yeah. And so I think I read it that she wasn't planning to die.

That was a backup plan. Yeah. But she didn't even necessarily want to be there. She wanted to be whole and be okay. And that's the struggle, I think, with women that often when we talk about this stuff we can sound angry or upset or, you know, here they go again, you know, blah-de-blah-de-blah, women's rights, women's issues, blah-de-blah.

Men get sexually assaulted too, which is obviously true. Absolutely they do. Yeah, that's not what we're saying. Absolutely they do. Absolutely they do. But this is just the thing, this is what this movie is about. Correct. Yeah.

Yeah, exactly, and not in the same numbers as women. No, and often it's also other men as well. Correct. Not all. Again, generalisation, I don't have the numbers in front of me. Correct, exactly. And things go unreported, et cetera. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

But I do think that I think that's the issue. When you're trying to push for social change, you are always going to seem the angry, crazy one. And the people that are happy with the status quo are always going to seem the angry, crazy one. And the people that are happy with the status quo are always going to seem calm and sort of like, well, now, now, now, let's not get carried away. Don't you think it's time for mediation and, yeah. You know, let's not get carried away, you know, that kind of thing.

And I think that that's the struggle when you're seeing this stuff every day with women to just continue to live your life and accept the way people are being treated and not just constantly be pointing it out. Because the other part of this is that the young men in the film are doctors and, you know, very well-respected professionals. And they're doing good work presumably. Exactly. And they're doing, you know, all of those things.

And so it's really complex. And I have people in, like like my social circles who have done very questionable things. You know, we've talked about this as well. Yeah. And it's like how do you, it's kind of a struggle to like how do you reconcile with that person, you know what I mean? Yeah, I do know what you mean.

That's what I was referring to with Alison Brie's character before. And I think that's the complex thing that Karen Mulligan touches on in her interview with Dax Shepard, that you can love someone and they can be a good friend of yours but also they can make choices, particularly, you know, when they're younger and have booze involved, all of that stuff, that make you really question their integrity or, you know. And also yourself because you're like, what am I doing in relation to this? And should I be stepping in?

Should I say something? Yeah, exactly. It really does make you question your role in everything. Yeah, I hate it. I don't like questioning myself, Claire. I like being sure. And look, it is to be said as well that no one is perfect and people can be. And the other part of that is, you know, no one should be written off

because of behaviour, past behaviour necessarily. Depending. Depending on what that behaviour is. You know, but I do think that a film like this really does, I think it's a really important film to watch. Are you going? Yeah. All right.

Can we move around? I think we have to end it here, Claire. Oh, my God. That was just a huge episode. No, I thought that would go this way. I didn't know. But I think it's good. I think that's, I don't want to do like five minutes

on Promising Young Woman. I think there's so much, because we've also, we've talked about it so much. We should keep talking about this. I hope that conversation was, I don't know if that was interesting. I can't, I don't know anyway. I don't know. And it's such a minefield, this topic.

Yeah. And if everyone's, people who are living through lockdown are probably after something light and fun and we've really started the year with a deep dive. Yeah. Goodness gracious. I loved it. I thought it was amazing and awful and really funny and all the things.

Yeah. So I was really waiting for you to watch it after. I'm like, man, you should watch this. But I'm also like, it's really grim. Also, like, I'm like, it's really good. I really want to talk to you about this. Initially I didn't want to watch it because I thought it was a serial killer movie. Yeah, because that's how it's sometimes framed.

Yeah. Yeah, not all the time but sometimes. I just adored it and also was awful and I cried a lot at the end. Yeah. I really cried a lot. Yeah, and it was, sorry, we will stop talking about this, but I was so like depressed that she doesn't make it through and even though she gets revenge, you know, because like,

oh, it would be cool if she like survived that and had a happy life and whatever. But you made the point of like that's not, there's no impact. I mean there is but it's not the same as like. No, it wouldn't have the same statement. Yeah. The reason why it's such an excellent film as opposed to a really good film is that ending, that it ends in this bold statement.

And I think often with victims, if you don't meet them in a film, like in the film she talks a lot about Nina, her friend, but you never meet Nina. No, you don't even see a picture of her. No, and I think that's intentional because she has kind of a presence but not really in the film. And I think that's what happens if someone's passed away, they're kind of ephemeral, right? Like you're not really on their side.

But Cassie's character, she's so smart, she's so funny, she's so cynical and great. You're on her side the whole time. You're angry when she's angry. You kind of like are like cheering when she's doing this, like just really getting blokes to really examine themselves and she's so witty and clever. And also there are moments where your heart breaks for her

and she's just broken. And so she's this larger than life character to you. And so for her to just be snuffed out in a minute and then you never see her again in the show, I think really does something. I think it really then makes you re-examine the character of Nina and what a huge character she must have been, which is something that Cassie explains in that final scene

just before she's murdered, just what a tour de force she was. And I think that does. And that might not even mean her. Sorry, I just cut you off then. But like that's her, at least how she perceived her is like, you know what I mean? It's like this is how I saw her and you took this away, you know, from all of us, you know what I mean?

Yeah. Sorry, go on. Yeah. So and I agree. I think that's why it had to end in that way. Yeah. And it's a bold, really excellent way. Like it's so surprising and unexpected and disturbing

and then it just leaves you thinking for so long. You know, we're still talking about it. We saw it two weeks ago or a week ago or whatever. And so I just highly recommend everyone going to see it. And this is what happens when you have women and people of diverse backgrounds making content that makes you think and is different and isn't all from the same perspective. Well, I hate thinking about things.

Well, because it just speaks to a different experience, you know, which I think is just so it ends up being not just like watching something because it's from a different perspective, which is boring. Who wants to do that? just like watching something because it's from a different perspective, which is boring. Who wants to do that? Because it actually creates really edgy, different, fresh, exciting film and TV and books.

And, you know, if you're only reading and watching stuff from the one lens, it just ends up being tired, you know, at a certain point. Yeah. And there's also nothing wrong with like watching stuff you like, obviously. Absolutely not. Absolutely not. It's just all adding into it. It's good to just expand your little whatever thing of magic.

Yeah, exactly. Anyway, we should wrap this up. We should. Well, this has been a very strange suggestible. I feel like it's been a weird episode anyway. Well, I like it. Do you? Okay. Anyway. Well, I like it. Do you? Okay, good.

No, it's good because I want to talk about it, so it's good to talk more about it. And look, I know sometimes people enjoy us talking about it. They might even shoot us a review in an app. Do it in an app. You can give it five stars if you want. That's totally up to you. But Runeck says, I can't imagine a more successful podcast.

Sincere and fun recommendations and hilarious banter between two great people. Always a fun time. And this is from xxx underscore currymeister underscore xxx. It's beautiful. I love these guys. So that helps us get out there, I think, probably, doesn't it? Correct. Do you have any Gmails you can tell us about today, Claire?

I certainly do, James. I certainly do. Well, let's talk about it. So I'm going to bring the mood up because this episode has been a real downer. What, what? And frankly, I had lots of fun stuff to talk about and let it be known that you hijacked this episode. No, I didn't.

You want to talk about Promising Young Woman. I did too. Anyway, we got an email. I do. And if you want to send an email, send it to suggestapod.gmail.com. We would love to hear from you with your recommendations. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This one is from our lovely friend Kieran of the Steph and Kieran couple

who we love to chat to at every event. I know Kieran and Steph. I know. They're excellent. They are. And Kieran says, hi, Claire and James, just listening to the best suggestibles of 2020 part two, and I had to send an email about my lawnmower.

At the beginning of 2020, we bought a Ryobi battery lawnmower, brushless 36B, and it freaking rules. I, too, like James, hated mowing the lawn prior to this mower. They are noisy, smell bad, take up heaps of space, and are generally just shit. This one, however, is super light. It's pretty quick, quiet. Comparatively, it is silent. You don't need to buy fuel, and you don't have to use one, however, is super light. It's pretty quick, quiet. Comparatively, it is silent.

You don't need to buy fuel and you don't have to use a ripcord to start it. It's amazing. Along with the whippersnapper, I can get our house done during my work from home lunch break and still have time to make lunch. In other news, we are moving to Brisbane. Oh, no. In early Feb. So wish us luck and if you ever need anything from up north

or are unsure if it's worth doing something up there for the podcast, think of us and come. Lots of love, Kieran and Steph. I would love that. I like Kieran and Steph. Oh, they're awesome. I could real life hang out with them. Yes, me too.

They're brilliant. And I actually think- Just to clarify, not everybody, not all the listeners I would real life hang out with, but I genuinely would hang out with those two. I would hang out with every single one. No, you sound real Nick Mason. He does that pandering shit, but it's clearly not true. All right.

Well, here's the thing, Kieran, out there. You know, listeners of the show will know just how much James hates mowing the lawn. Fucking hate it. We have a Ryobi battery lawnmower. We do. And James still hates mowing the lawn. I think you just don't know how bad it is with a cord one. No, I've done that. I think you just don't know how bad it is with a cord one. No, I've done that.

I've done all of that. This one is clearly better, but the problem is I let it grow too long and then when I go to do it, it's just like hacking. I just got to do it every two weeks and I don't. Again, we should just get a gardener. We'll just get some more Patreon money or Big Sandwich money and we'll put it towards a separate fund. We can't.

You spend a lot of money on cereal. It's true. I got so much cereal covered you don't even know. Oh, my God, guys. We're going to be broke. We're going to have to sell our house because James keeps buying Magic Spoon cereal from the United States of America. Because you can't just ship it here.

I got to ship it via a US postal service called the stackery. Let me tell you, it tastes like garbage. That's good, man. You basically bought cardboard, a box full of little discs of cardboard. Low calorie. And you spent like 60 bucks on it. Low carb, where it's at, get among it. It changed food.

Not a sponsor. It definitely would be open to sponsorship 100% if anyone's listening. They do sponsor podcasts actually. Yeah, they do. I want some of that magic space. They always sponsor Pod Save America, one of my podos that I got real into again just before Biden was put in the White House, which we are very excited about. Yeah, I'm super excited.

I'm very hopeful about his climate. No, his climate policy. His climate agenda is so bold and so brave and I don't know if he's going to get all of it through, if any of it through. But I think it's, well, it's precisely what I want. You better because I don't want our kids to die. So do it. Look, that's always a goal of mine.

Me too. What's another letter or is that the letters for this week? That's the letters for this week. I love that. It's always good to hear from Kieran. We've really extended this episode. Yeah, we have. Wow, way too much.

All right, next week we'll be back with a look at my list here. A regular episode. Ooh, I've got pretty grim stuff here. I've got so many fun things and you just hijacked it. What are you talking about? We decided we were going to talk about this. Yeah, I know, but we talked about it for way too long. I should have wrapped it up.

Colleen's can cut it down to six minutes, this six-minute episode. All right. Thanks for listening, guys, though. We appreciate it. Thank you. Hope you're doing all right out there. Yes, that's right. As I always say here every week, what do we say?

We say James sucks. James sucks. Hashtag James sucks. See you guys. You don't really. No, I do. I think you're great. Nah.

All right. Till next time. We'll be just a little bit. This podcast is part of the Planet Broadcasting Network. Visit planetbroadcasting.com for more podcasts from our great mates. I mean, if you want. It's up to you. Hi, I'm Jessie Cruikshank from the number one comedy podcast,

Phone a Friend, which I strongly advise you listen to. You know what else I suggest you look into? Becoming a host on Airbnb. Did you like that segue? Thank you. I recently started putting my guest house on Airbnb when I'm out of town, and I didn't realize how easy it would be until I did it. If you have a spare room, you could Airbnb it, or your whole place could be an Airbnb.

It's a great way to make a little extra money by doing not a lot, which frankly is my mantra in 2024. To learn more, go to Airbnb.ca slash host.