Suggestible - The Royal Family (of Spiders)

Episode Date: September 15, 2022

Suggestible things to watch, read and listen to. Hosted by James Clement @mrsundaymovies and Claire Tonti @clairetonti.This week’s Suggestibles:01:35 Lara Briden - The Period Revolutionary14:19 Children of Time by Adrian Tchaikovsky23:06 Tim Loveday Poetry and Tonts Podcast with Tim (tw: domestic abuse)33:40 Queen Elizabeth II Discussion45:22 Septurtles Coming Next Week!Send your recommendations to [e-mail], we’d love to hear them.You can also follow the show on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook @suggestiblepod and join our ‘Planet Broadcasting Great Mates OFFICIAL’ Facebook Group. So many things. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

We can wait for clean water solutions, or we can engineer access to clean water. We can acknowledge Indigenous cultures, or we can learn from Indigenous voices. We can demand more from the earth, or we can demand more from ourselves. At York University, we work together to create positive change for a better tomorrow. Join us at yorku.ca slash write the future. Join us at yorku.ca slash write the future. Just a heads up that we discuss themes of domestic violence and also the passing of Queen Elizabeth in this episode. If these bring anything up for you at all, please contact someone you trust or you can

reach out to Lifeline Australia on 13 11 14. We would like to acknowledge the traditional owners of the land on which we create, speak and write today, the Wurundjeri people of the Kulin Nation, and pay our respects to their elders past, present and emerging, acknowledging that sovereignty has never been ceded. Bing bong, bing bong, bing. Bing bong, bing bong, bing bong.

Those bing bongs can only mean one thing. Claire's latched onto this intro and she will not let it go, which I respect. Thank you. Because that is what I consider humour, just ruining a thing. And who are you? Who are you, James? Oh, I'm sorry.

Am I doing the introduction, am I? I thought that was your job. No, I'm just asking you. All right. Well, suggestible. Hello. Welcome, welcome. This is a suggestible podcast, a podcast where we recommend you things

to watch, read and listen to. Yeah. My name is Claire Tonti. James Clement is here also. We are married and he's also known as Mr. Sunday Movies occasionally. Occasionally. And he loves a bit. Loves a bit. You just love doing a bit.

I love a bit. I do love a bit. And you love, as you were saying, you love a repetitive bit. I do. Which my bing bongs are now on. That's right. So this week, Claire's going to be like, hey, here's a thing that I'd recommend. Oh, wow.

Yeah, this is it. We're straight to it, Claire. We're in. We're so awake. It's odd. I'm feeling very like too zingy for this. Usually we're half asleep and we've just put the kids to bed. Oh, yeah.

Do you think people won't respond to this high energy? I don't know. It's confusing. Anyway, I'm just going to start then. Let's do it. All right. Okay. So this week I want to talk then. Let's do it. All right. Okay. So this week I want to talk about a really special person called Lara Bryden,

and she's an author and a podcaster and a broadcaster and just a really, really interesting person and a really valuable person. She's written two books, one called The Period Repair Manual and one called The Hormone Repair Manual. And the reason I want to talk about her specifically is because she talks everything hormones and periods. And for women around my age in their 30s and beyond, and actually women through their whole lives, this kind of stuff has often been shrouded in a lot of mystery. Oh, mystery.

It has been shrouded in a lot of mystery. And I think that there's a lot of lack of information or confusing information out there. And Lara, and there's lots of other academics and people who are working in this space, but Lara in particular does a really great job of communicating really clearly the things we need to know. And she also understands that women are really time poor overall. And so her podcast, for example, if you follow her on Instagram, she's at Lara Bryden. That's L-A-R-A-B-R-I-D-E-N. I don't follow her on Instagram. Should I follow her on Instagram? Yes, yes, you should.

All right. Go and follow her. Well, it's probably not very relevant to you. Isn't it good to get other people's perspectives though, Claire? You are correct. You are right. Exactly, exactly, exactly. Excellent.

So before I tell you a little bit more about her podcasts and everything, I'll just give you a snapshot of her credentials. And the reason I'm talking about this particularly is that so many women in my life are finding their hormones, are doing all kinds of things to them. And I feel like maybe the people that love them as well would like them to get some help with it. And so on tons, actually, I'm talking with a wonderful naturopath, Freya, this week, Freya Lawler.

And I'd love to talk to Freya Lawler right into you, but I think she's a really valuable resource for anyone who is panicking in this space and not knowing what to do. So she's a naturopathic doctor with a focus on women's health. She first worked as a researcher and evolutionary biologist at the University of Calgary, which I find really interesting, and then went on to graduate from the Canadian College of Naturopathic Medicine. So she loves science and the natural world. And that love has informed the way she works with her patients. So she views the body as a logical, responsive system that knows what to do when it's given the right support with nutrition and natural treatment. I just think we need as much really

good quality, scientific, accurate information about our hormones because for so long women have kind of just been told, well, you're just hormonal or too sensitive or the change happens when they get older. That's also not very helpful, is it? No, it's not. And actually what's- You break your leg, you're not like, your leg has changed. Exactly right.

You need to adjust to your new leg situation. Correct, exactly. But everyone's bodies are so nuanced and there's so much that we need to understand about this in order for us to not just put up with some of the things that women are suffering from, things like endometriosis or PMDD, lots of mental health issues that women are facing as they get older too, but then physical symptoms like fatigue, even, you know, night sweats that we know about in like hot flashes and kind of those obvious ones. But there's a lot of other ones as well in terms of the way our bodies change. And there's so much that can be done to help. So Lara Bryden on her site talks

about things like immune treatment for endometriosis and the four types of PCOS, which is a condition that affects women. You'll also find treatments around this about iodine for breast pain, progesterone for heavy periods and some of the best natural anti-adrogenin supplements for facial hair and acne. So you can read an essay that she has on her site about body literacy and learn about alternatives to hormonal birth control, including the pros and cons of things like the copper IUD. And so there's just, just that's a little snapshot.

Her podcast is only 15 minutes and it's everything women's health in under 15 minutes. So if you've got a particular health question. Oh, you could just be like, I want to know about this. Yeah, and you can go to her podcast and go, right, I need to know about what PCOS is and then go and explore all about it. And endometriosis is the same. It's so underdiagnosed.

So many women suffer for so long from really heavy painful periods and all the other symptoms that go along with endometriosis. So it's very important to note I am in no means a medical professional. But you're directing to somebody who. I am, exactly. And I just think if you're and it's I guess this goes with for anyone who's listening to this show not just women in particular or people with wombs but anyone if you're dealing with some kind of medical complaint your body's

doing something different just go and seek help because there are so many places you can go and I think often we just put up with things for a long time before we realize that there's things you can actually do to help. Like chronic pain in particular. Yeah, exactly. Mood swings and mood changes. And as we age as well, our bodies change and shift again. So it might be a very obvious message to give, but take this as a sign. And if you're someone out there who has a health complaint or an issue, and particularly if you are a woman experiencing hormonal changes, you need to find the right GP

who can walk you through this. But there is a lot of research and a lot of things that can be done in terms of your diet and medication that can really make a massive difference to your quality of life. You've shopped around also with doctors and medical professionals as well, which also, that's a luxury, obviously. Not everybody has like the money or time to do something like that. But that's, you'd obviously recommend doing that, like speaking to different people. And if people dismiss you, you know, that doesn't mean that they're right. No.

And that's historically women's pain in particular has been really dismissed. And often that's the, I mean, endometriosis is so underdiagnosed for this reason and so many other things as well. I think it's just so valuable to know that if there's something going on for you, the first medical professional you see may not be the one that listens to you and that doesn't mean that your pain or your condition isn't something you should explore. Yeah, absolutely.

So that's why I'm directing people to Dr. Lara Bryden for this reason, but there's other experts out there as well like her. I speak to Kim Veal who's a physiotherapist on Tonson. We also talk a little bit about this, the impact of hormones on women's bodies and things that can be done there as well. There's just, I just feel like the more that we can talk about this, the better, right? Because I mean, as a partner of someone who, because at the moment I've really struggled with my hormone cycle and mood swings and all of that stuff.

Have you noticed a difference when I really started looking into it? Yeah, definitely. And I actually had a question for you, Claire. Say like you, this is something you might recognize in a partner, right, but they're not kind of going down this road or looking at the things that you're talking about. How would be a way to suggest this in a way that's not like, I don't know, what's the word, like a gentle way to suggest it? Or being like you seem like your hormones, your periods really cranking my gears.

Yeah, do you know what I mean though? Like what would be a way like sort of being like are you on your period or whatever like you know like what's the what's the way to approach something like that yeah i mean i guess the first thing is you know your partner and i think making sure that you are always going first and foremost with love i think is a big thing maybe directing them to a podcast or bringing it up in a more general way, depending on who your partner is, but saying like, I was listening to this podcast between this married couple, James and Claire,

and Claire was talking about how she's been struggling lately with her hormones changing. And what would you recommend to that person when they then tell their partner to do that and then they get to this point in the podcast? Yeah, God, this is so better. And then you say, well, this is because your partner really loves you that you're here and they want you to listen to it, I guess. And they also think you're on your period also.

But also I do feel like there's a lot of shame historically for women about being on your period and the idea of even talking about your period. Like I know female comedians, oh, she's going to bang on about her period, you know, or whatever. Like there's this real idea. That's not even like true really, is it? No, it's not true. But also if men had periods, all we would hear about is men having periods.

It's true. That is true. Because historically we get a lot of dick jokes. I can't remember the last time a woman's like, oh, I was on my period or whatever, you know. Like it's just not. Yeah, but also it happens to us every month time a woman's like, oh, I was on my period or whatever, you know, like it's just doesn't, it's just not. Yeah. But also it happens to us every month and our hormones really do affect everything about

us. Absolutely. And I mean, men as well. It's not just women over here having hormone periods and like men's hormones change and shift. There is this like. Or people's hormones change and shift. There is this like perception and like this is, you see this a lot on the internet that women are emotional

and men are like stoic and like. Yeah, come on. But it's not actually true because have you ever seen a man like flip out? And I mean like and that's not considered like emotional. That's, you know, that's like anger isn't, like that's not being emotional when you, you know, throw a tantrum like a giant baby, you know. And that happens so often.

Yeah. I'm doing one a day. Yeah, you are. But you're absolutely right. I think Penny Wong, one of our senators, had such a great comment about this when she was talking about male politicians on, it's called Misrepresented, which is the Annabelle Krabs documentary.

And she says on that show, in politics, I know I've been told as a woman, I'm too emotional for this job, but she said, in my experience, it's actually been the opposite. Yeah. That I've seen men make really rash, really brash, really terrible decisions based on their own emotions and anger and pride and ego. And, you know, all of those things come to play as as it does for women because all of that is about being human. It's just interesting that maybe anger is a more socially acceptable emotion than, I mean, I just feel like in a leader I want someone

who is emotionally sensitive and in tune with. Yeah, and emotionally doesn't mean like flipping out and off the handle. It means like, yeah, you can show emotion. Yeah, and vulnerability. And I think that was something else Penny Wong said too. She said that women are actually very good and this is such a generalization but in articulating and understanding why they're feeling the way they are. And so before you make a decision going, okay,

this is this week of my period or something and I'm seeing the world in this particular way or I my period or something and I'm seeing the world in this particular way or I know this about myself and I know that I'm triggered by these particular things so I'm going to really take some time to look at this and make a decision around then or this has made me feel, or this particular thing that's arisen has made me feel really sad and I can empathize with the other person as to why they would have made the choice they have in this situation. And I just think, yeah, I totally agree with you. It's really interesting.

I mean there's so much about gender roles and, you know, all of the stereotypes that we build into our culture and society. I actually have a podcast coming out on Friday with Apollo. Yeah, I was going to say. So that will be out tomorrow. Yeah, it will be, yeah. And I'm going to talk about him as my next recommendation. So, I was going to say. Yeah, so that'll be out tomorrow. Yeah, it will be. Yeah, and I'm going to talk about him as my next recommendation. So I'll park that for here.

But I will say PCOS is actually polycystic ovary syndrome as well, just in case someone is, you were wondering. I could see you being like, what is PCOS? I was actually, yeah. What is PCOS? What is PCOS, I said to myself. So polycystic ovary syndrome is typically earmarked by regular periods or by no menstruation at all. And people with PCOS typically have multiple cysts in their ovaries

caused by an overproduction of hormones called androgens. Androgens? Androgens, yeah. So according to research from 2019, between 33% and 83% of women living with PCOS can also be overweight and suffer from obesity too. And other symptoms include acne and male pattern baldness as well. Oh, okay. So there's lots of things that people need to be aware of.

I just had never heard of it before I started looking into all of this hormone repair manual stuff. So that's just another fun thing that can happen to women and worth just reading about if that might be something that resonates with anyone. Cool. I will just, yeah, just direct people to the wonderful Dr. Lara Bryden and her content over there. And she has a great website too. So Colleen, as always, will link that in the show notes. Over to you.

Doesn't she? Yeah, because she runs Facebook, doesn't she? That's a good website. She does. She's one of the key founders. Is that correct? Is that true? One of the key founders of Facebook.

Is that true? Yes, it's accurate. It's very accurate. We've never lied on this show and that is a thousandth century. Andrew Garfield played her in The Social Network and he smashed that laptop. Remember when he was like, I'm going to smash this laptop. Okay, that's a totally different person.

What? She didn't found Facebook? No, I don't know what you're referring to. I don't know. I think I'm just not very well, Claire. But you know what? I'm well enough to say this. I read another great book, Claire, while we were on break.

It was called Children of Time. It's actually the first in a series of books. I think there's two out at the moment. I started reading the second one and there's a third one coming out soon, I think. If there's not already, it's called Children of Time. Is that how you have to say it? Yep.

It's by Adrian Tchaikovsky. And you might be like, well, what's this book about? By children, do you mean regular human children? No. Okay. So the book's plot involves a planet inhabited by evolved spiders, uplifted by human scientists, and their much later discovery by the last humans alive in the universe.

The work plays off the contrast between the societal development of the spiders and the barbaric descent of the starship crew of the last humans. Right. So do you understand any of that, Claire? No. Let me break it down for you. Okay. So I knew you wouldn't because it's a complicated book and you've got a lot of feelings and

emotions and I understand that often gets in the way of rational thought. You know what I mean? Oh, Lord. Do you understand what I'm in the way of rational thought. You know what I mean? Oh, Lord. Do you understand what I'm saying? All right. Okay. So it's set in the future and there's a team of religious zealots send out a technological virus which just fries everything in the universe, right?

All the humans in different star systems, they receive the signal and it shuts everything down, right? So they're basically back to the dark ages again. But one of the things that happened just before that was a planet, the idea was that they're trying this new thing where a planet is seeded with apes along with a virus which speeds up their evolution. So in like a couple of thousand years or less even, they'll get to the standard of like regular human beings, right, as opposed to the, you know, the billions of years of evolution. But in this particular case, on this particular planet, the virus attaches itself to spiders. So you see the evolution of a spider society

becoming intelligent over the thousands of years. And it's like, it's obviously a society that's vastly different than humans, the way that they,, like, it's obviously a society that's vastly different than humans, the way that they, you know, they work in a 3d space. They think in completely different terms of understanding because obviously their references are completely different. You know, the way they communicate, they don't speak, they use like tapping because they're, they're spiders and whatever. This sounds insane. I realized as I'm, as I'm saying all this, but it is a really interesting like look at like how a different kind of life could it's all obviously hypothetical like could evolve like how

a different kind of intelligent life and while that's happening there's this last human ship that's out there it's got a few thousand people on it which is looking for a planet to stop at and that's kind of as this society is flourishing and having its own holy wars and all these kinds of thing this ship is looking for somewhere to to stop and they know that this planet exists and then they know that it's being terraformed and they could they could stay there but that that's it's going to come to a head because it's basically humans who kind of you know are struggling and desperate and petty coming up against this new kind of civilisation and it all kind of comes to a head.

Anyway, it's amazing. It's a really incredible book. It's really well written. It's just it's like dense at times in terms of it's not like super hard, like you can't understand it kind of sci-fi, but it's quite complicated. It weaves a web, if you will, Claire. Oh, I love what you did there. I love it.

What's it called again? It's called Children of Time and I've actually started. Children of Time. Children of Time. And I've started reading the sequel book which I'm also really enjoying. Not to be confusing the film Children of Men. No, that's a different movie and also a very good movie. Let me just specify that, Claire.

Does that sound like a book you would be interested in? Yes, actually it actually would, which is interesting to me because a lot of your sci-fi stuff I'm like no, out. But I'm really interested in the idea of the way societies are built. I find that fascinating. Yeah, I never really read anything like this and this is also because often in the spider kingdom the female spiders are more dominant, they're bigger.

So the underclass in the society are the male spiders. So initially they're just treated like, they're treated really badly. They're treated as kind of mates and workers and they're considered not very intelligent, even though that's not true. And so you see that evolution as well, how they're under the boot of that and how that kind of changes over time.

And a few spiders, a few male spiders kind of take leaps and bounds, weave a web if you will, Claire, to kind of become a more kind of modern society where everyone's on equal eight footings. In the world. Yes. It suits them better. Yeah, I loved it. I think it would make an excellent like TV series.

It probably seems really difficult to adapt. I was going to say like how would you make them because you know how I feel about CGI animals. Yeah, I mean and they're spiders though, aren't they? Yeah. Do you know what the thing that freaks me out about spiders? I've always got the sense that they're very intelligent. Yeah, well, they're predators basically.

Yeah, and I think that's what freaks me out so much about them. They're so alien to us. Yeah. And the way that they spin webs is just incredible to watch. Like have you ever gone like YouTube that? Yeah. The way they're so intricately made, they're like works of art. Absolutely.

Absolutely incredible and breathtaking to watch. And you just get the sense that, yeah, they're very switched on. What I found interesting about this as well, they're generally, they're like solitary creature spiders generally. I'm sure there are exceptions and whatever. Yeah, but you do just generally see them all alone, don't you? Yeah, but this particular virus instills like a sense of community in them. So that's why they start working together and using tools and evolving

and then eventually building like, you know, radios and long form communication and all of these kinds of things. But that comes from like it alters them so that they, they look, they, you know, they, they turn on, they look to each other for assistance and knowledge and then they turn outwards to find like something like a greater purpose. You know what that reminds me of as well? I think it's a Dave and Adam documentary about an ant colony where viruses kind of get in and then the ant goes insane. And it's like, have you seen that? And then the ant sense that one ant in particular has been infected with this virus. I think it's

almost like a fungus. And so they kick the ant out and then the ant's head eventually explodes and this like weird gross comes out of it. Yeah, I've seen that. Yeah, I've seen that. Yeah. And I just, if- There are a lot of it. Yeah, I've seen that. Yeah, I've seen that. Yeah, and I just. There are a lot of ants. There is. In this as well because the ants are used like workers as well. They're used as like to carry messages and to build things and all that. So they use like pheromones and signals to kind of get ants to construct things.

And there's also like a big war with ants because the ants are just like taking everything over at one point and they're trying to figure out how to stop them but there's billions of them oh it's making me feel it's really it's really good and you think like it wouldn't you know because it's spiders so it's like who cares and spiders are gross and whatever but you kind of you don't find that like oh well i don't find spiders gross i find them or unrelatable i should say yeah yeah i find them really unsettling because of that feeling that they're very intricate beings that are i'm not saying that spiders are like sentient necessarily but just just that they're so clever yeah and moving like really fast it's like the octopus that we saw

while we were away just to get over this octopus i just love it i just like the octopus that we saw while we were away. You need to get over this octopus that you're in love with. I just mean the way that they move. Their whole bodies move in ways that are completely foreign to us and so intricately. I just, anyway, fascinating. You know what I just found? And some spiders are incredibly beautiful too. I agree.

Some are ugly. Some are real uggos. Just like you. This monitor that sometimes doesn't reach all the way to our bedroom. Look, it's got an aerial I just discovered. Oh, my God. We have been battling with that. This might change our life, Claire.

Any parents out there, have you ever realized that the thing you've been using that's been not using, that is changing our whole life, has actually been built in a functional way and we just haven't been using it properly. Something to think about though, isn't it? Anyways, Claire, do you have another recommendation? I do. It is Scepturtles, as you know this because we're celebrating

Ninja Turtles this month. Scepturtles. Yeah, we started this last week when I talked about something Ninja Turtles related. What do you have Ninja Turtles related this week? I don't have anything Ninja Turtles related at all. You didn't know it was Scepturtles? No, I didn't.

I'm so sorry. I hear too much about Ninja Turtles every morning from my son who is currently, as he said to me this morning, I'm no longer into Pokemon, Mum. It's all Ninja Turtles. It's all Ninja Turtles. And I'm like, mate, I noticed because every morning it's Splinter is on the rampage or no. Treader's Revenge.

Treader's Revenge. Yeah, whatever. I don't know. It's flinging around. I do love the Ninja Turtles that you talked about last week though. It's very interesting. I've got another Ninja Turtle thing to talk about this week. All right, cool.

I'll talk about something really quite heartbreaking and serious, and then we can talk about Ninja Turtles. Ninja Turtles has a lot of depth, Claire. I think you'll find. Okay. Well, let me talk about this first. Hi, this is Katnett Unfiltered. If you know us, then you know that we do almost everything together,

so accommodating seven kids and seven adults on vacation can be challenging, so we Airbnb and if you have a spare room in your house you can Airbnb it. It's that simple. You can even Airbnb your whole house while you are away. You could be sitting on an Airbnb and not even know it. Whether you could use extra money to cover some bills or for something a little more fun your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at airbnb.ca slash host. All right. So as I said, I'm interviewing, well, I interviewed a poet called Tim Loveday. Now he's from Victoria and he grew up in rural, rural, rural, rural, rural, rural, rural, rural, rural. He's a rural Jew. 30 rock reference for anyone who doesn't know.

He grew up in Ruru, New South Wales and currently resides in North Melbourne. Now, he is a beautiful writer. He's also an editor as well. His poetry particularly deals with themes of domestic violence. So he grew up in an incredibly violent small town. And the way he writes is so close up and it makes you realize that poetry can have such a weight and an honesty to it that can really draw you into someone's lived experience. And I think he also writes on toxic masculinity in particular because he grew up in this rural community where there was sort

of a military base and also a First Nations mission as well. Right. So it was incredibly toxic for so many different reasons. Yeah. And so because he grew up in this incredibly violent community, he saw violence everywhere around him and also within his own home. And he writes so really eloquently about what it's like to be a child

of domestic violence and also about the forces at play that lead men to enact violence in their home as well. And so he really does a great job of building empathy but also really examining that idea of toxic masculinity. And I just loved this conversation. He's so honest about his experiences. He talks about growing up as a kid and because he wasn't super into football and like muscly and everyone in the town, you know,

that kind of peak of masculinity was being good at football and everyone wanted him to be great at it and he was terrible. And just that whole notion in that town of the way his dad felt about him not being typically masculine and him being very cerebral, I guess, and loved writing and being really creative from a very early age, being in this hyper, yeah, aggressive sort of space where he constantly felt like he needed to protect himself and also where he was seeing his mum being treated really, really horribly by this guy who had these really toxic ideas of women being inferior and that it got worse when his dad felt like he was struggling. Like if something was happening in his dad's life that meant

that his ego was bruised, he would then take that out on his family. Of course, yeah. And it was really sporadic and strange and didn't have a pattern to it. And anyway, I wanted to read one of his poems and then I'd really recommend you going to go and check out some of his other poetry as well. And I totally understand that this can be triggering for people as well. So if you want to skip this segment, Collings can put a little time code. You can jump straight to Ninja Turtles, baby.

Exactly. But I do also think this kind of stuff is really worth examining. Completely agree. And he's super warm and funny too. So the episode we do together I think. I can't wait to hear this episode. Yeah, I think it's really fascinating. And it is out tomorrow.

It is out tomorrow. Yeah. Yeah, Friday. All right, so this is a poem that he wrote about being a child growing up in that home and it's called The House My Father Said. Okay. In the days when my body was not big enough to penetrate the doors, I believed in love. Believed sleep was a still place in a darkness of limits. That love was a song we were learning to sing. That songs were hymns and silence was closing. That when the door shut, my father would not set my mother's skin

on fire. That behind those doors, love lived with the kindness of dreams. But as those days strip like the velocity of broken wings, doors thin, skin pressed to the splinter, and love, the stillness of drowning, tightens into a fist on the brass handle swing. I could be nothing then, but listen, meanness was unknowable. My oracle, a bay of milk pressed against a door on fire. Bloody hell. Pretty intense. I can't wait to forget that you read that and then read it out. Then read it out. Yeah. There's so much in that because I also hadn't really thought before

about what it takes to write poetry and how because poems are so condensed, every word is thought about so carefully. And he's a professional poet. He spends so much time on every word. Yeah. I just, I think he does a beautiful job of showing us what it must be like to be a child. And we've all had experiences as children where you feel really out of control, right? Because you're not in control of the world and you're shocked by the violence and the

strangeness and the difficulty that exists in the world and you start being so innocent about all of it. And that's kind of the heartbreaking thing I think about raising kids. Even when you grow up in a happy home, you can't shield them from that. No, they're going to hit somebody who's like, I mean, you know, Yeah, or even just the news at large and the world at large. There's going to be times where they're going to see behind that loving veil of how devastating and brutal and violent the world can be.

And the idea of that happening to you as a child in your home, it's just so heartbreaking. And I just am really grateful for his work in the world because I think he's doing a beautiful job of writing and being a working artist and building that empathy for children of domestic violence, but also exploring masculinity and toxic masculinity and the reasons for it. And his work also deals with the connection of kind of the land and working on the land and the kind of violent approach that we have towards the land,

you know, that idea of it being conquerable. Stripping it back, yeah. Yeah, exactly. He reads a poem called Mowing on the episode and that's all about that, his father mowing the lawn, but it's about so much more than that. His dad, you know, wanting to control everything around him and how when we enact violence on our earth, it's a long boat to draw, but I actually don't think it is that all that violence can permeate

into our own relationships and the intimacy that we have with people. Yeah, definitely. As well. And all of it feeds into that kind of toxic consumerism, capitalism, all of the stuff, you know? So I really encourage you to listen to the episode because I think it's also just really fun as well, which I know sounds very strange because it's not fun themes, but it was a really fun episode to do in a lot of ways because he's incredibly funny too.

Yeah. Oh, that's awesome. I'm really glad. Yeah. So this poem is called The House My Father Said, but you can find lots more of his work at timloveday.com. I'd probably recommend there's some, I mean, there's so many really good ones. One of my other favorite ones is called At the End of the Rail, and you can find that on his website too. It's just about spending time with his dad who was working

on the train lines with all of these kind of like brutal, haggard, hyper-masculine old blokes as well and the way that they talk to each other and about women and their view of the world and also him wanting to bond with his dad and spend time with his dad and trying to fit into this idea of masculinity. But also it builds a real, it builds a really visceral sense of what it would be like to be there at that time listening to those men as a child.

So for instance, I'll read the first line. So he writes, In the morning when the sun peels back like a paper cut and the blue metal is thunder under our feet, I see shadow diamonds spread across the train yard and I feel as small as a bird and as wide as a sail. Last night I listened to your two-way radio. I pulled the blanket up to my ears and shaped myself into a satellite.

It's static jargon, a dialogue with God or grease or grit. I heard the miracle of boom, boom, boom. We were the new age of Romans with a thousand outposts. We were cowboys riding iron centipedes. Before dawn, I threw off my blankets like old ghosts, sprang from my bed like new smoke, heard your voice in the walls as you swept me up in your wings, took me to your shoulders. Atlas or He-Man or Rambo on the rails, Duke on the frontier, you smelt of oil, aftershave radio waves. You whispered to me in the language of future and the earth fell away. I had barely seen the blue streets, how the stars grew hazy in the steam, how horizon bled the false border of morning.

We lived before the aftermath. I am a fault line across your chest, liquid gold sprung from your veins. I feel the cavity where your heart should be. I am young country. Boom, boom, boom. Poetry, you know? Makes you go, oh, yeah. Anyway, I just think there's some really interesting commentary on this.

There's a beautiful, like the last phrase of this particular poem I find really interesting because he's also talking about history and that we're kind of taught in our Australian culture to not look back at the past. Yeah. And we're told these kind of false narratives of what it means to be a man and to have a relationship with land and to own land. And it comes from really toxic, violent roots. And so the last phrase in this, I'll just read this last little section.

Yeah. In my ears a heart, boom, boom, boom. My eyes mirror the bloodshot sky. The thrum of the engine rattles through my bones. All my ancestors are ghosts. All my ancestors cling to the atmosphere. As you walk the rails, fade into morning, settle into history, men talk, talk, talk. We have learnt distance in this country.

We have learnt to never look back. It's true. I think it is. I definitely think it is. And I've probably just butchered his poem because it's a lot longer than that, so apologies to him, especially if you listen to this. I'm very sorry. I've butchered your poetry.

Well, he should have written a more succinct poem than we could have read out on this podcast. Anyway, I just think people should go and check out his work and it's worth thinking about because we're trying to change narratives, right, and particularly when we're thinking about in the past week where Queen Elizabeth has passed away and there's a lot of complex emotions about that.

Sure. I don't know. I just think there's a lot people are grappling with in terms of our history as a country. And the British colonies. Exactly, exactly, exactly, And the violence that occurred. I just feel like we can hold a lot of truths that someone can be admired for the work that they did for a very long time and the way that they did it while also it being incredibly

problematic. There's just so much emotion around about all of that. So anyway, I, I feel like there's so much complexity and however people are feeling about it, I think we just need to hold space for all of it and try and be respectful. Look, I can recognize that like somebody lost like a mother and a grandmother and a family member and all that. I understand that. But everything, all of that other stuff can go in the bin, get rid of it, give the money away to, you know, pass a lot out to different people, organisations, people who you've wronged in the past, all of these kinds of things.

Keep them as like a Disneyland attraction, which is essentially what they are, you know, because they bring in a lot of like people come and they look at the palace and they go, oh, yeah, that's pretty big, isn't it, or whatever. But all the rest of it, bin it. Get rid of it. Yeah. Look, I agree in so many ways.

I totally agree with you and I do think it is incredibly strange that suddenly we just have a king. Yeah. Oh, he's going to be on our coins. I'm going to have to look at him every day. Yeah. And I think that's the interesting part of this, right? Like you can be a Republican and you can think the monarchy isn't okay

but you can also be someone who respected Queen Elizabeth as the person she was as well. Also a Republican is different in Australia than that. Oh, yeah, true. Sorry, a Republican is someone who thinks that Australia should no longer be part of the British monarchy or whatever. Anyway, I just find I'm trying because I know there's so much anger flying around and I can completely understand and also not understand

because my country I'm not. I mean we've benefited I'm not. I mean, we've benefited from it. We've benefited from it. Exactly right. From colonization and the brutality of that. So I just feel like there's so many different ways to feel about this issue. And I think that shouting at each other never really helps. I think allowing people to feel all the complexity of it. And then also it is so strange. Like we're having like a forced two-week shutdown of our government and we're having kind of like a public holiday. I think if we're having a forced two-week shutdown of the government, everybody should take two weeks off.

I mean, why does the government get two weeks off? Why can't we get two weeks off? It should be two weeks off podcasting, Claire, is what I'm saying. Just people, there's a lot of reasons why people can't take time off too. Of course, yeah. And people who have run small businesses. Even the fact they've made a public holiday really quickly, which I know is also legislated, I think.

It's just, like on one hand, great for lots of people. Then for other people, they still have to pay childcare fees but they don't get their day of work. There are people that run small businesses that are now just going to have to shut down and not earn money that day. Like there's so many knock-on effects for people who had surgery scheduled for that day. Like there's just lots of interesting things.

And anyway, I'm hoping that this is a time of transition and maybe an opening for our country to re-examine the way we treat our first nations people. I can't remember where it was from, but it was like 70% of Australians want to stay in the Commonwealth or whatever. And I'm like, that is not true. Like I don't have the stats in front of me, but nobody thinks that. No, I think there's a lot of people doing that. Maybe old people, but like nobody gives a shit.

There's a lot of baby boomers. There's a lot of baby doing that. Maybe old people, but like nobody gives a shit. There's a lot of baby boomers. There's a lot of baby boomers. Prince Charles is so strange. What a strange man. I know he also has like he has some good views on like farming. He wants to strip back the monarchy too. Does he? Yeah, we'll see.

Anyway, all I'm saying is there's a lot of room in this for people to feel a lot of different ways. Even just having a woman as the head of state for 70 years is to me and the way that she conducted herself I admire. I really deeply admire that. I understand that that's a difficult role to step into. I totally appreciate that where it's a male-centric like the whole monarchy and the whole system and most systems are like the government.

It's all dudes, right? And she worked right up until the day she died. Yeah, I know. But working is like going to things and fucking meeting people or whatever. Look, I am appalled by what the British have done and obviously I've benefited from it in a lot of ways but absolutely appalling. I mean colonisation, it's devastating.

That's not even an accurate word. Ruined nations. Yes. For generations, colonisation, it's devastating. That's not even an accurate word. Ruined nations. Yes. For generations, like ongoing. Yes, yes. And I am utterly, utterly devastated and horrified by that, which I know are not big enough words to explain that kind of the massacres that happened in our country. However, that's why I'm saying there's complexity in this because I can still admire a woman who for 70 years dedicated her life to a particular role and did it in the face

of, I'm assuming an incredible amount of sexism and, and all those sorts of things that happened. I, I, yeah. Even the images of her burying her husband on her own, you know, I, I don't know. I just, there were some things, and I know for people, she represented a lot of things. And I don't think, I think she was completely separate, actually, to the way people felt about the monarchy in a lot of ways. That I agree with. I also think that like the reason she represents so many things to so many different people is because she never had a hard public stance on literally anything.

things to so many different people is because she never had a hard public stance on literally anything. So it was just a lot of like vagaries and like stiff upper lip and we're in trying times and whatever the fuck. And it's like, yeah, great. Really helpful. Thank you. And I know she also like headed up a lot of charities and all of that. And, you know, I understand that, but also where does the money come from? It comes from people's taxes and donations and all of these different things. So like, yeah, there are complexities to it, but at the end of the day, she's basically a Disneyland attraction, you know, for 70-odd years. That's what I think. And I'm not saying that's not a hard job because it is,

and fuck that, I would never want to do it. And anybody who would want to do that is a fucking lunatic. But she didn't want to do it. She didn't have to. She could have not done it then. Then don't do it. Don't do it. Because there's been a bunch of people, including, what was it,

her uncle who, like, married someone else and whatever and was also a Nazi sympathiser. By the way, look into that for the British monarchy. If you're looking for Nazis, there's a fucking bunch of them in there. But she didn't have to do it is my point. I know. And she could have taken steps to dismantle it. And I know people have also said that, well, you know, she did dismantle it. No, she didn't have to do it is my point. I know. And she could have taken steps to dismantle it. And I know people have also said that, well, you know, she did dismantle it.

She did. No, she didn't. Things were taken away. People stepped away. Nations stepped away. Nothing was given. I think people had to take things back. Look, I agree with you in so many ways.

But all I'm saying is I do think that there is room for us to have a nuanced discussion about this and for people to have huge emotions, anger, resentment, all of those things, but also sadness, grief over someone who was essentially like a steady figure for their whole lives, for their parents' lives, for their parents' lives, for their grandparents' lives. And change is really hard for people and there's so many hard things happening at the moment. I think that understanding that we're all going to pass away eventually,

death, all of that stuff, like seeing someone that has been so familiar on all our money and all of the things for so long just no longer be there. I know it's insane but also you have to have compassion and respect as well for people's feelings about that. That's all I'm saying. I agree, yeah. And I just think it's important that we don't just yell at each other and that we can try and hold more than one truth at the same time.

But I also don't think like this idea that this is like there's a discussion to be had and, you know, and let's find a middle ground on all of that. I don't agree with that. I'm not saying we find a middle ground. No, no, no, I know that's not what you're saying. But what I'm saying is like there's not a point to me where you like you figure something out which was the benefit of everybody. The answer to all of this is get rid of it.

Get rid of all of it. I think that is the answer. I don't think there's any other rational, reasonable explanation and purpose for these people being here other than like a ceremonial role with a very small kind of amount of money that you can do this stupid thing that you do. That may very well be true. I'm not talking about dismantling the monarchy and I'm not talking about finding the best way forward from here in terms of where we go next. What I mean by holding two things to be true is I think you can respect that people have big feelings about this on multiple different levels and that it's complex and that we need to tread carefully around the way that people have feelings about this and not police people for feeling particular ways and allow that to sit,

you know, and, and be okay. Like it's okay to mourn her. It's okay to feel incredibly angry. Like it's okay. Yeah, of course. I know that. But if there's also, there's policing, that's the people who are being policed for like, like being against this. That is what's happening. You see like protesters being arrested for holding signs that are anti-monarchy and whatever. Yes, I know. I know. I know. All I'm saying is I think that it's just, it's a very complex thing for people to be grappling with, I think. And I agree there is absolutely a need for change. I mean, in our country, for us to be able to move to a republic would allow us to really, in a meaningful way,

bring in treaty for our First Nations people and start to really, in a concrete way, build reconciliation. And I really don't, I'm starting to really understand from my perspective we really can't do that with the monarchy there. Absolutely not. We have to start, we have to stand on our own two feet and say we are our own country and try and start to repair and build bridges from there. But that's separate to me.

I mean, obviously this discussion has been happening for a very long time. I just feel like, can we just try and be kinder to each other? Is it at the end? And I know you kind of hate this. I feel like stop being like middle of the road. But I think there's also like there's like certain topics or like certain, you know, things where there isn't like there's no point in being kind in certain circumstances.

Do you know what I mean? Like there's certain like stances on things where it's like, well, you need to be kind to these people or whatever. And I think, no, there's not, I'm not talking like you go and like kill those people or yell at them all day, but there's no like give, it's just like, no, you don't get to be, you don't get this thing because it's bad. And then you take it away. But then of course you've got to figure out what those particular things are, but I'm talking really obvious things. Do you know what I mean? Like, yeah, yeah, I know.

Anyway, all I wanted to say, I wish I hadn't brought it up now. Well, it's ruined Subturtle quite frankly. I haven't got time now to talk about it. We've got to wrap it up as well, Claire. We do have to wrap it up. All I wanted to say on this topic is I don't know, I just feel like there's a lot of room to be able to hold more than one thing to be true and for you to feel the way that you do.

And however that feels for you at the moment with the death of Queen Elizabeth, it's okay. You know, I just think. Sure. And I think the more we can listen to each other and listen to why people feel the way they do, I don't know. It's so complicated. I'll probably change my mind next week.

Now this isn't recorded on a podcast. Sure, which is absolutely fine to do, yeah. Okay. It's good to have a conversation, Claire. It is. And you know what? There's other ways you can kind of converse with people. And I can give you an example.

Here he is. You can actually review this show and you can do it in app. Yes. I'm running out of reviews to do. So if we could get some more that I could read out, that would be terrific. Yes, please. And you can sneak a little message. Yes, please.

This is from Sweet Tooth KC. Sweet Tooth KC. It says, brings a smile to my face. Five star. Can you believe this person just did it in our app? Five stars. Thank you. Listening to this is a wonderful way to find some interesting media

without putting a lot of negativity out there. A good mix of popular stuff and indie finds, often featuring marginalized, overlooked, or misunderstood groups. They, Claire, try to keep things upbeat. And while not all sunshines and rainbows, it's an excellent break from the aggressive and polarizing nature of most of the media we consume. Five out of five, A++++ would buy again?

Wow. Wow. I appreciate that. What a great review. You probably didn't listen to this episode. I can't imagine that this person did considering we're recording it right now. Oh, Lord. All right.

You can also write into the show with reviews, suggestforpod at gmail.com, just like Bianca has. Hi, Claire and also James. I hope you're having a good week. Yeah. Love the pod. I'm sure many people have told you already that your on-air dynamic is very much a relationship goal, even though one of James' hobbies seems

to be hassling you, Claire. I love hassling. Now, I will also say that the topic of this email is Sunday and Mason, ye olde chimney sweeps, Inc. Oh, yes. Do you remember our conversation? I do. We're a little chimney sweep company.

Yeah, exactly. I listen to the planet broadcasting pods while painting. It very much keeps me sane. Here's two sketches about five years apart. I think so anyway. Time isn't real. Exactly, Bianca. Thank you very much. Here's two sketches about five years apart. I think so anyway. Time isn't real. Exactly, Bianca. Thank you very much.

It's not real. I swear my other art skills have improved over the years. I just really struggle drawing Australian podcasters. Anyhow, I recommend going outside and looking at a leaf or whatever. No, no, really look at it like you mean it. Love, Bianca. Oh, thank you so much. That is a delightful.

Bianca Kedding, you are one of my people. And let me show you some of her paintings. You might be familiar with this one. Oh, thank you so much. That is a delightful. Bianca Kedding. You are one of my people. And let me show you some of her paintings. You might be familiar with this one. Oh, I know this one. Holding a big sandwich. Holding a big sandwich. But then look at these chimney swippings. Ah, I love it.

Really good. I like them. I've got a shitty outfit. You kind of look like a convict, actually, which is kind of ironic considering what we were talking about for this episode. Yes, thank you so much. Thanks, Bianca. And that's suggestapod.gmail.com.

I am Claire Tonti. James Clement is here also. We've been suggested for podcast. And thank you. Thank you. And goodbye. Goodbye. It's hockey season and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats.

Well, almost, almost anything. So, no, you can't get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So, no, you can't get an ice rink on Uber Eats. But iced tea, ice cream, or just plain old ice? Yes, we deliver those. Gold tenders, no. But chicken tenders, yes. Because those are groceries, and we deliver those too. Along with your favorite restaurant food, alcohol, and other everyday essentials.

Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details.