Suspicion - Choices

Episode Date: May 2, 2025

It’s now been 13 years. Chris reflects on decisions he made. The friends he had. Staying out that hot night in August instead of going home. And on what he would do if he is ever released. In the final episode of the series, we offer him a potential lifeline. Tell us what really happened between you and Awet, what he said, what he was planning to do that day. Surely this was a drug deal gone wrong. 

Suspicion, season four, is brought to you by Havelock Metal, quality metal roofing and siding. Right now, he's playing on the rep team right now, too. He loves it. He loves it. He has everything. And he's better than me. He can shoot with both feet. He shoots left and right, naturally. So he has a head starter than me.

That's a conversation I had with Chris Sheriff just before this podcast series launched. His son is 13 now and quite the young soccer star. His daughter is 14. What about your daughter? What's going on with her? My daughter, she's more, she's doing fly football. She's working for her daughter, so she likes hair, she likes nails.

And she's also into the fly football. Chris has watched his kids grow up from afar. His daughter lives with her mother. She and Chris are not together. As for his son, the boy's mother passed away, and he lives with Chris's parents, Marjorie and Lloyd. I asked Chris about the outside world. If you got out of prison tomorrow,

like right out of prison, what's the first thing you'd do I spend time with my family. I spend time with my loved ones. Like, you know, there's a lot of time I missed out already, and I just want to kind of make up for that, especially with my kids. Chris has been in federal prison for 13 years, plus time in provincial jail, awaiting trial. He was 19 when he was arrested, 22 when he was convicted. He's 35 now. I asked him what would be the hardest part of getting out. The biggest challenge is more of settling back into society. Like I've been away for a long time. A lot of changes happen and places look different. Being able to travel from place to place, getting a job,

like those would be the biggest challenge, getting my feet back into society and getting to live in and be able to support myself and my family. Alone in his cell, he often ponders the decision he made that Saturday night so long ago, after the barbecues, after Juicy Jerks. The decision to go to the hotel and stay out all night. Yeah, I do. I look back at the choices and I see signs of saying,

just go home. Go home. Like, you know, and I didn't take it. MUSIC MUSIC From the Toronto Star, I'm calling again. Let me go down and see what's happening there. I'd arranged with prison officials to conduct another interview with Chris, this time by video. I wanted to press him on a theory I had about the murder, among other things. The call was scheduled for 1 p.m. At 1 10, I was staring at a blank screen. I reached out to a prison official.

You're at the facility, correct? Yes, I'm at the facility, yes. Maybe there's an issue with Aaron. There's nothing spicy going on at Collins Bay today? I am in a different department, so I honestly have no clue what's happening. I waited. While I've spoken on the phone to Chris many times, and in person at Collins Bay when I started this investigation, this would be the first time seeing his face in a year.

The screen finally bubbled to life. Chris is putting on a headset. The audio cuts in and out. I can't hear. Hold on. You tell him I can't hear. You tell them I can't hear. Can you hear me now? Oh, it's not plugged in. It's not plugged in.

Chris Fiddles with some chords. All right. Good to see you again. That looks like the same place where I met you in person. Yes, it is, it is. Yeah, yeah. They kind of changed around the renovation here, but same place. Chris is wearing a white long-sleeved crew neck sweater

that looks to me like the one he had on when I first met him. As we start chatting, it's clear he's more self-assured, more, I don't know, put together. I think his Toastmasters public speaking has paid off. That and the 30 plus courses he's taken. Not many left to do, he says. There's still a couple of programs

that I'm on the wait list for. So I'm on the wait list for CPR. There's a, I'm in a philosophy course right now. They have another philosophy course where it's a university credit. And they have another entrepreneur course that I'm trying to get involved in. Some of these courses, it's tough to get in.

It's harder for me right now because they're trying to focus on people who are getting out rather than the people who are doing life. The public speaking club remains his favorite, something he couldn't have imagined doing before his arrest. When you look at it now, you see at least 20, 15, and it's like consistently people come in,

they like to do it, they're talking in front of everyone, they're getting used to it, they're talking freely, everyone's comfortable, everyone's like, it's like a mini family in that host master group. His own family on the outside has never given up on him. I pull out my phone and play part of a recent chat I had with his mom, Marjorie. I'd been to see her a few weeks back.

Believe it or not, I'm doing a little bit better than since 2009. It was worse. But because he's OK, and I hear from him every day, he helps me, plus I have his son here. And I know I have to stay strong for both of them. Having Chris's son living with her in Lloyd helps. I love him to death.

He's my Savior. I take him to school. I bring him lunch every day, and I pick him back up. And that fulfills me. Chris listens, his face as it usually is, not a lot of expression. But when I ask him about his mom, his eyes widen and he lights up.

The Chris Sheriff version of lighting up, just the hint of a smile. Oh yeah, like she said, I talk to her every day. My mom's like my best friend. I talk to her every single day. Chris has changed so much since I first met him. He's more open about his feelings and more reflective. He says he focuses on trying to improve himself and stay safe.

And again, like me being here, the reason why I don't get myself in trouble is because I think about her and my family. Like, you know, like I can't think selfishly. I can't only think for myself. I've got to her and my family. Like, you know, like, I can't think selfishly. I can't only think for myself. I gotta think for my family. I don't want my family worrying about me or if I'm getting a voice or anything's happening. So I try to stay out of all the trouble, all the problems, just because that's who I think about.

Those are the people who I prefer. We'll be right back. I grew up in the renovation business. If I wasn't a reporter, I would have been a builder. And I know quality is key. So whether it's for your house, cottage, or building, make your next roof last with Havlock Metal. Havlock Metal has been specializing in steel roofing, siding, trim, and accessories for over 30 years.

Visit HavelockMetal.com to request your quote today. This interview happened shortly after a change of government in the United States, and a looming trade war between the U.S. and Canada. I asked Chris if he and the other inmates knew much of the outside world. Yeah, people talk about the news. We talk about the news a lot, and some people who are seeing it all day in here too. So they know everything that's going on in America, especially what's going on with Trump, and what's going on with the Canadians over here.

All it's affecting us, the taxes, the tariffs and stuff like that. So we stay pretty much up to date. I tell Chris that I want to revisit the weekend of the Kim Gallup murder to talk about choices, to look back at his 19 year old self. There was girls there. I'm young at the time. Like, you know, I want to be with young girls. He's talking about Roxanne and Hannah, the two college students he met at the barbecue. Roxanne was the one he had the connection with.

He said he had a kid mentality that day, not thinking straight. But like, looking back now, yeah, I would have changed it. Like, I would have just went home. I wouldn't care about the girls, at least what I had. My whole life ahead of me, and got to do everything I want to change it. I want this one. I wouldn't care about the girls that he's had my whole life ahead of me and got to do everything I need to do if I just avoid that one situation. Okay, the young women. I get that. But what about Awet? When you were driving him home, why pull over when he asked? Was there something about him? Something you admired? Cool older guy?

Chris said no. He barely knew him. I asked, were you scared of him? Um, no. He didn't do anything for me to be scared of. Like, you know, like again, like that's what I'm trying to say. Like, I've never seen him with a weapon. I've never seen him hurt anybody. I've never seen him anything. I pushed Chris a bit here. I've got a theory about what was really going on. I ask, did you know he was a drug dealer? I think I know he got caught with drugs before he got arrested and got charged for trafficking or whatever possession of whatever he had. I know that, but like other than that, I didn't have any fear or anything like he was going to do something to me.

Here's the next part of our conversation. So I've got this theory. And I'm really gonna ask you to dig deep here and try and recall conversations. You wanted him to pay for gas, right? Yes. And you knew he sold drugs. Well, I didn't know he's on drugs at that moment

But I didn't know what he was doing to get money, but he said he can have pity guys Okay, but so you remember you go to that gas station. You're hoping he's gonna pay for gas instead He goes and buys some cigarettes. Yes then he gets back in the car and You told me that you're not pleased because you've been driving them around all night and want some money for gas. And I expect you were a little bit concerned that you're going to get in trouble from your parents for bringing the car back on empty. Yeah, I was concerned.

I know when I was 19, if I didn't find some money and put gas in the car, I'd catch it for my father. No, you see me, I find things to do that they need, like if they need the house to be clean, or they need the grass to be cut, that's how I have choice that I do in my house. So that's what I kind of do to kind of make up for it. Okay, so you're in the car and you've agreed with me that you needed gas, you wanted some money for gas. So I am going to put it to you that at some point in that conversation when he said pull over and you pulled over on Silverstone, he said, I'm going to go sell some drugs.

No, no, he didn't say anything. He just pulled over. He got up and that was no, he didn't say anything. He just pulled over. He got up, and that was it. He didn't say what he was doing. He just said, you're going to come back. Give him two seconds, he'll come back. And that's basically it. Chris says if he knew Awet was planning to sell drugs,

he wouldn't hide it. He would have told the jury. OK, no, no. If I knew he was going to go sell drugs, I'd say, yeah, I thought he was going to go sell drugs and that's what happened. I would have said that. I don't feel like that would be a big deal. I'll be honest. I was at first disappointed with his response. It seems so obvious to me that this was Awet's plan. Or at least, this is what he said to Chris. I guess I was looking for a confession of some kind,

to fill in the blanks I still had on what happened. But then I started thinking about it, and realized that Chris has been telling the same story for all these years. It's very likely the truth. No, he just came back in the car, he sat down, and he said, okay, we're good, and I drove off. Drove off, drove down Silverstone, right to his house. If he had a do-over, Chris said he would have asked Awet what he was doing.

I understand, like, the logical question is, like, why not ask him what he's doing? But when you're in a situation, in the moment, I'm not really thinking that anything's gonna happen or something's gonna happen down the street or anything like that. This is, again, this is not the first time someone asked me for a ride. Another thing that's been nagging at me

relates to Chris's cell phone. This was 2009. It was a Blackberry, a phone he and his mother shared, which was registered to Marjorie. According to police, the phone was off all night. I played Chris a text message his sister Aquila sent early Sunday morning while he was still at the hotel. There'd been a power outage in some parts of the city.

This is Aquila reading her message. If you are wigged, do you have power where you are? Chris said he never received it. He was having fun at the hotel and his phone was dead. The power was on at the hotel, but he had no way to get his phone going. No, I didn't carry a phone charger on me. I always kept that mouse.

I only had the one charger so I kept the mouse. The one that plugs into the wall. I didn't have a phone that goes into the car. This had the one that mouse. I asked him about this because a lot was made at the trial about how his phone was mysteriously off in the early hours of Sunday and until he got home later that afternoon. The opposing lawyers made it seem like he kept it off to help him conceal his location. I didn't see any evidence of that.

It may simply be that his battery died. To help take his mind back to 2009, I also played for him text messages his sister sent the next day, the Monday, which he never saw because he was in the police interrogation room. Just letting you know I'm thinking about you and praying. You are the best brother in the world. I love you so much. Thinking about you again, I love you bro.

Chris said that was typical of Aquila. I love my sister and my brother. No, they always looked after me. All the face of the baby, right? Chris said that was typical of Aquila. Still on the theme of choices, I shift the conversation to his friends. The guys he hung around with back then. The guys from the hustle squad photo. The guys police sources say are gang members. and Chris says they're his pickup basketball squad. I asked Chris, do you wish you had other friends back then?

No, I'll say no. And the reason why I said no and I'll stick to that decision is because before my case, none of these guys were known to the police or were in trouble with the police and were even labeled a gang member. At Chris's trial, some of those guys testified for him. Afterwards, they became linked to gang activity through that police checklist I told you about

earlier. Chris was now a convicted gang member, so they were now guilty by association. Chris feels badly about that. He says a lot of those guys he knew from when he was little, and they all encouraged his soccer career. They pushed me to play soccer. They pushed me, they know me as a soccer player. That's who, that's how they know me.

They know me from being a soccer person, telling me to keep playing soccer. They want to see me on TV. Going into prison with a gang label, as Chris did, meant guards and fellow inmates looked at him differently. His file was marked STG, Security Threat Group, a classification prisons use to profile someone who is in a gang or organized crime. After he'd been behind bars for five years, Chris decided to do something about it. He wrote to Correctional Services Canada, which oversees prisons.

I've got a copy of his note. Hi, I am looking to get the STG off my file and would like to know if there are forms I need to fill out. I would also like to get a copy of the police report that they gave you about me being a member of a gang. The response Chris got back didn't take long. First, Toronto police had no record of Chris being in a gang.

There was no report to send to the prison. A new entry was made on Chris' prison file. Considering your recent behavior within the institution, we will be inactivating your STG. You have turned your life around while incarcerated, and because of that, you will no longer be considered a Jamestown or Hustle Squad member. That's dated October 11, 2017,

five years after he went to Collins Bay. Why, how come I'm not a gang member right now? Why is it as soon as I get convicted, they say this gang no longer exists? Maybe, Chris says, it's not that mysterious. And that's why I say that's going on in the community, it's going on with these areas of high Black people. They're targeting people, they're creating people,

they want people to be gang-murdered. That's Chris's perception. And I can see where he's coming from, knowing what he's been through. But given the lack of information on Chris in the Toronto police files, I decided to ask him about that bodies to his name comment by Officer Nasser's source.

Have you in the 15 years since then been questioned by any Toronto police officer, any Toronto homicide to find out anything that would help them solve any cases? Anything? No, because there is nothing. Those are all these conversations just to get to bolster their story. Where are these bodies? When did it happen? What year?

What month? Where? They can't, but they can say something just to make their case sound like it's true, and I'm a bad guy. I've asked the Toronto Police to comment on this, and other problems I've found with the case against him. I sent detailed questions about the confidential informants, the false DNA, the rush to charge by homicide.

Stephanie Sayer, a spokesperson for the Toronto Police, sent back a short response. I've asked a voice actor to read it. As you know, it is the role of police to investigate and pursue charges where the grounds exist, and the Crown's responsibility to assess the case and make the decision to prosecute or not. In this case, Mr. Sheriff was found guilty by a jury,

his appeal was unsuccessful, and as you said, the case was extensively litigated. Any decision to reopen or reinvestigate this case would rest with the courts, not the police. We'll be right back. Whether it's for your house, cottage or building, make your next roof last with Havelock Metal. Havelock Metal has been specializing in steel roofing, siding, trim and accessories for over 30 years. Visit HavelockMetal.com to request your quote today. If you want to feel more connected to humanity and a little less alone, listen to Beautiful

Anonymous. Each week I take a phone call from one random anonymous human being. There's over 400 episodes in our back catalog. You get to feel connected to all these different people all over the world. Recent episodes include one where a lady survived a murder attempt by her own son. But then the week before that, we just talked about Star Trek.

It can be anything. It's unpredictable, it's raw, it's real. Get Beautiful Anonymous wherever you listen to podcasts. When Chris went to prison, his parole eligibility was automatically set at 25 years because he was convicted of first-degree murder. That means Chris has 12 more years before he can apply. But he's just two years away from what is known as a faint hope appeal. Here's how this works. Fifteen years into a life sentence, an inmate can request a review of their parole date. Ontario's Chief Justice must then decide if there's a realistic chance of them getting

out earlier. If so, a jury of 12 conduct a review. It's not a new trial, but an examination of several factors. The character of the applicant, the nature of the offense, the effect on the victim's family, and anything else the judge handling the case agrees they should look at. One factor would be, does the applicant take accountability for his offense?

For Chris, that's a non-starter. Yeah, that would actually help me to get out. So do it. Why not do it? I can't. I can't admit to something that I didn't have an involvement in. If it takes me staying longer in jail, I have to stay longer in jail. Even after all these years, Chris continues to pour over his trial transcripts. That's how he found the false DNA

that his lawyers had missed. Now, he thinks he's found something else. So, we were trying to get in contact with a witness who the police used from a confidential informer to be as reliable. Remember Drops? So right now we're at a stage that we found the person we're trying to get in contact. Drops is the guy Officer Nasser's source said Chris Sheriff was looking for, part of a back-and-forth

retaliation that ended up with Kim Golllum, an innocent victim, being shot dead. And Awet Asfaha, Chris's co-accused, testified that he heard third-hand it all started with Chris ripping a chain off drops at a mall. Drops, by the way, is a giant, much bigger than Chris. is a giant, much bigger than Chris. It never happened, Chris says, and one of his lawyers has set out to prove it. In early 2025, they found Drops. He's in a jail in Ontario, facing drug and gun charges. In the case, they called him Drops, and they tried to say that I was after him. They said, I got into a fight with him, I took a chain from him.

I know his real name, but I'm not including it here until I see how this plays out. And I'm trying to speak to drops as well. Chris and his lawyer are hoping the man will say the story was untrue. I have an interview and basically show them like all the lies that's going on in the trial. What the witnesses are saying and things that people who they're saying is reliable and information that this person is providing, which is fake and is fabricated. Chris is upbeat about his chances. So they're going to book an interview with him, see his side of the story, if me and

him got into an altercation, if I took a chain with initials on it or anything like that. Now Drops is facing some pretty serious charges. A search warrant on his car turned up a loaded semi-automatic Glock handgun, 396 grams of fentanyl, 200 grams of cocaine, and a box of 45 caliber bullets. Will he speak to them? And even if he backs up Chris's story that the two have no connection and there was no beef between them and no stolen chain, will that be enough to reopen Chris's case? So they can enter him in the jail and hopefully he can come out with the truth and say, yeah, all this is a lie, that I was an at the end, never come to fight with him,

never had a conversation with him. We never even had a conversation before. Nasser testified the two sources had never lied to him. Chris wants to prove they did. Nasser said if one of his witnesses or CIS or whoever to say something that wasn't true, then they're going to have to review this whole case. Nasser never said anything about a review,

but he did say that these sources were 100% trustworthy. Looking at the clock on my computer, I can see that our one-hour time is almost up. I want to talk about the victim. I asked Chris if he ever thinks of Kim Gollib's family. He says he does. In fact, he'd like to talk to them. I hope that their family does see this interview.

And I'm willing to sit down. I'm willing to talk to them. They can ask me whatever question they want to ask me. I won't want to clear my name. I don't care about the courts. The courts is the courts. The courts has never been for the black people. You know, I want to talk to them and show them

like I didn't have nothing to do with it. Chris was there in court when members of the Gallup family read their victim impact statements. He heard how he and Awet were called cold-hearted and evil. And I don't want to be put in that kind of a spot where it's like I'm going to have to live with someone hating me for something that I didn't have nothing to do with. It's almost 2 PM.

I asked Chris, what do you have coming up for the rest of the day? I thought it would be a dumb question, given that he's in prison and it's a place of routines. I have a couple of things to do in the institution, so some people are in SEG. I'm trying to get some people out of SEG. SEG is segregation. There's actually a new name for it, an attempt to make it sound more humane. Structured Intervention Unit. But it's pretty much the same thing as it always was. An inmate separated from human contact. Chris is part of a committee of inmates that meets with prison officials when there's an issue. In this case, a dispute between two inmates got violent.

You guys had a fight. Again, I get these guys together, mediated it. Everyone's good. It was a one-off situation, a miscommunication. I'm trying to get everyone back right now, so. Chris makes enough money from his jobs at the prison, carpentry, and the committee work, that he can buy food from the canteen.

And he has access to from the canteen. And he has access to a toaster oven. What's for dinner? I didn't even think of dinner. I probably make... I don't eat from the cafeteria. The cafeteria food is really bad. The food that they give out in the prison is really bad. So I more make my own food. So probably today I'll probably just make chicken and some rice. I'll have chicken in the freezer and make some rice. Chris takes off his headset. We both press the end call button and the connection goes dark.

I did ask him one other question though. It was when we were talking about his case and how he feels that racism had a lot to do with him being in prison. Looking from his lens, he sees white cops, white prosecutors, white judge, white jury. I asked him what, if any, message he's given to his own two children.

I said, the police don't treat us equally, and it's true, they don't treat black people equally. If you're black, if they find you in a certain area, if they find you in a group, they automatically think you're up to something bad or you're going to do something or you're a criminal or you're a gang member. Any specific instructions? Talk to them with respect.

Don't put your hand in your pocket when you're talking to them. Always keep your hand in clear sight and things like that. So, here we are. As of today, Chris Sheriff remains in prison. He and his family are still fighting for his freedom. What do I think? As in, is he guilty? From everything I've learned in this long journey,

the evidence doesn't support a finding of first degree murder. It just doesn't. Sure, it's possible that Chris had some knowledge of the shooting, before or after. But there's simply no evidence, none at all. The police and the Crown Attorney had a hunch, and the jury agreed. All of these questions raised in our series

will be at the heart of Chris Sheriff's new bid for freedom. In early 2025, the federal government established the Miscarriage of Justice Review Commission, an independent body created in response to numerous wrongful convictions in Canada. It will investigate and decide which criminal cases should be returned to the justice system for a new court hearing. Thank you for listening to Murder on Mount Olive. In addition to the 10 episodes, we have three bonus episodes for subscribers. They deal with confidential informants, policing, and the Innocence Project,

which seeks to undo wrongful convictions. On this story, as well as the billionaire murders and death in a small town, there's more to come as I continue my investigations. So stay tuned. Murder on Mount Olive was written and narrated by me, Kevin Donovan. He was produced by Angeline Francis and Sean Patten.

Our executive producer is JP Fozo. Additional production by Kelsey Wilson, Matt Hearn and Tanya Pereira. Sound and theme music by Sean Patten.