Sword and Scale - Episode 112

Episode Date: April 14, 2018

Some tales of human depravity are just unimaginable. Are they the actions of a monster, or simply a monstrous act? Sometimes the lines are not quite so clear, and perhaps monsters are not only real, but existing all around us, and hidden in plain site.This is the story of a young boy named Joshua Earl Patrick Phillips, an even younger girl named Maddie Clifton, and a waterbed.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Sword and Scale contains adult themes and violence and is not intended for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised. I did something horrible. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry for what happened. Welcome to Sword and Scale, Season 5 Episode 112, a show that reveals that the worst monsters are real. What is the difference between a monster and a person who commits a monstrous act? Is there a difference? Could that monster live inside any one of us. And how do we recognize it when it can be hidden in plain sight? 1998 Jacksonville, Florida. Sheila and Steve Clifton were living in a quiet

residential neighborhood on the city's south side with their two daughters, Jesse and Maddie. How old was Jesse in 1998. She was 11. And her old was Maddie. Maddie was 9 or part of May 8. I just turned 8. Yes, ma'am. And as most parents, did you and Steve, in terms of your life together, did it revolve around your daughters?

Our whole life was our daughters and our family and fishing. The Clifton's organized their lives around their daughters interests and activities. When they weren't taking Jesse to piano or guitar lessons, they were shuttling Maddie to basketball games or dance practices. On the rare occasion that they had a free weekend, the Clifton family would spend it together, fishing. And we were a family that went on vacations, not vacations, but we went fishing every Labor Day, every Memorial Day. You know, you find all four of us in that boat fishing.

Camping and fishing, that's all we did. We loved our life. It was wonderful. Around the summer of 1998, the Clifton started to notice that when they returned from their weekend fishing trips, their home was not exactly as they'd left it. Yeah, so it was a bizarre series of events

that went on for, it's hard to say, it went on for months, easily. And it became quite evident that somebody was trying to and had gained access to our home while we weren't there. It started out as I would find screen to the windows removed from the windows and thrown in the yard. And, you know, I didn't think a lot of it, the wind blew them out. It was a time when I first noticed something odd inside the home. In fact, it was in Maddie's bedroom behind her clothes and the back of the closet,

a hole in the sheet rock, about that big around, about three foot above the floor. It's like hell in the war. Of course I question the kids and they say, okay, kids, what did you do? Yeah, it's exactly, exactly right. So that was one of the first times that I, again in retrospect, realized that someone had been in the home. With two young girls running around, it was easy to dismiss some of the early signs

that someone had been going in and out of their house while they were away. After all, most eight-year-old kids would be evasive if they accidentally poked a hole in the wall. But these strange, unexplained events continued for months. I was home first when the break ends. I started occurring move at home from school and the windows would be broken. And I would be able to terrifying.

Another occasion, Jesse had actually found, she had posters in her bedroom, I don't know, backstreet boys, whatever, or back in the day. And she, I don't know whether she was going to move on, but anyhow, we found like three or four hammer holes behind the poster, and then the poster just dropped back down over it.

That was on two walls of Jessica's bedroom, as I recall, behind a photograph and again a poster. And another time the kids, they were staples all over the house. I had a staple gun, I'm a handy man of sorts and anyways there were staples shot in their bed you know not into the mattress but just kind of like click click click click. They were staples throughout the house not a huge quantity of them but several here several there several in the walls, several into our hand rail,

we had a two story house. So again, just bizarre things. And did you suspect kids were involved in doing criminal mischief type things? Yeah, yeah, again, at first of course, I thought it was our kids. Sometimes they would have their little cousin, Mitchell, come over and you get three or four kids,

they get three kids together and you know anything can happen so I kind of read it off it as that and then I started noticing some pry marks and Jimmy marks on the windows outside and it's like well you know my kids aren't going to try and pry the window open to get into the house you So a couple of times, I believe twice definitely once. I called the police and I said, I got to have this document and make record of this. Somebody was trying to break into the house and it became apparent by that time that someone had been in the house other than our children and their playmates or whatever.

Holes in the walls, primarks on the windows, staples scattered around the house. All signs that someone had been inside the Clifton's residence, but hardly anything of value was missing, just a staple gun and a photograph. The missing picture was a photograph of Jesse wearing a Leotard and doing a front chest roll. Why would this, out of everything in the house, catch the eye of an intruder? Rather than stealing jewelry or electronics, this person had run around the house with

a staple gun, poked holes in the walls, and stole a dance recital portrait. Who would do that? Something strange was definitely going on. But it seemed as though there had to be some sort of harmless explanation. Of course, when you hear details like this on a true crime podcast, all kinds of warning bells start to go off in your head. You start to pay close attention to anything out of the ordinary, because you know something is about to happen.

But in the course of everyday life, nobody operates under that assumption, under the assumption that a tragedy is lurking, that there's some ominous threat around every corner. So the Clifton's, after reporting the suspected break-ins to the police simply continued to go about their lives. I want you to be a good, especially, can. Talk about Tuesday November 3rd, 1998. It was an election day, and in the state of Florida, Buddy McCay was running against Jeb Bush for governor. She looked Clifton got off early from work, stopped at a polling station to cast her ballot,

and drove home. I pulled in like I do every day from work, and met my mother and Maddie at the door. The eight-year-old Maddie greeted her mom and instantly began pleading for permission to go outside and play before dinner. I ended up going in the front door and my mother told Maddie to give me a hug, Mama's home, and she said, Mama, I want to go out and play. And I told her, I said, Well, have you done your chores yet? Because they all had those to do after school before they could go out and play and I told her I said, we'll have you done your chores yet because they all had those to do after school before they could go out and play.

She said, yes, ma'am. And there was just a little bit more small talk and then I said, okay, be careful, have fun. And I kissed her on the forehead and she walked out the door. That was one of the last times I saw her. Maddie took off down the street to go play with some of the neighborhood kids. Five houses down, Maddie joined her friends chipping golf balls in the yard of Larry Grisham,

a 45-year-old neighbor who enjoyed playing outside with the kids. About a half an hour later, Maddie returned home in search of more golf balls. Well, I had just, I just gone on in and started supper and everything and she came back in the door and she said, Mom, where's that blue golf ball? I said, Maddie, I do not know where that is, but I'll bet you, if you go out there into the border grass, we had border grass that ran along the front of our house.

And the street kind of tilted down towards our house. And I said, if you get out there and look for some golf ball, I bet you'll find a golf ball out there. And she said, well, we're shooting them into the fence down the road. I said, okay, that's fine. And she went out the door. We never could find the blue golf ball.

So she proceeded to go out the front yard to look for the golf balls. I got, I was tendin' to getting supper on the stove, went upstairs because I tried it almost every day to take a walk and after work to wind down. And I put on my shorts, the time had changed. So I knew I didn't have a whole lot of time. So Jesse had asked me, I believe, if she could go out and play. I said, yes. And I proceeded to take my walk.

That is older sister, Jesse, went down the street to join the other kids, and Sheila went out for a quick walk. When around the block came home, came inside, checked on dinner, everything was okay. Was that about a little after five o'clock or so? Yes, sir. Okay. Checked on dinner, make sure everything was okay, and then Jesse came in the house, and I said, okay, dinner's about ready,

you guys need to wash up and get ready for dinner. Where's Maddie? My mom called us in, because dinner was ready. And it was getting dark and you knew in the street lights came on. You had to go inside. And she said, where's Maddie? And I said, now he's not with me, Mom. And she said, well, Maddie didn't come back out where we were. And I said, what do you mean she didn't come back out where you were? She was going to go down and hit golf balls with every,

all the other kids at the end of the road. And she said, well, I don't know mom, but I didn't see her. So Jesse was a civil honey, let's go find Maddie. So we walked out the door and we started going to neighbor's houses one after the other. And I headed to the ones that had children at first because that's, I figured, that Maddie would be there. I thought about Jeffrey's house, which was like three to houses down. And Jeffrey was sick, and I didn't really know that. But Jesse told me, mom, Jeff is sick.

So Maddie's not over there, I know that. So what do you think she can be, honey? And she said, I don't know, mama. I don't know. So we just went from house to house to house to house to house to ask, have you seen Maddie? But nobody had seen Maddie. And before long, the whole neighborhood was out searching for her. Everybody kind of congregated.

I got everybody down by my house. And I said, we've got to find her. She's here somewhere. At some point Joshua Phelps is one of the individuals, the kids helping to try to find Maddie, correct? Is that a yes? Yes, sir. I'm so sorry. That's all right. And then at some point you guys kept looking and Maddie was nowhere to be found. It got to a poor eye. I actually stood out in our front yard and urinated in my shorts. I was so upset screaming her name. And then the helicopter's game, I think I have a part of a PTSD. I don't like to hear helicopters ever again.

Yes, it was like a circus. And there was everybody going in every direction possible, trying to find her. At some point did you end up calling 911? I did. I finally called 911. Jack the 911. Yes sir, hi. This is a sheriff's listen. I need my daughter.

When I have to claim this, it's asking me to not shoot her to my older daughter and now she's missing. Now this year. Take out your phone. I thought she would win my other daughter and now she's missing. Now this is it. Take out your gold. Rose should play now. And I'll round the house here. She'll wipe the nail.

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I'm going to do the same. I'm going to do the same. I'm going to do the same. I'm going to do the same. I'm going to do the same. I'm going to do the same. I'm going to do the same. She brought her here. She's got a reddish brown hair. It's actually a brown with an over-tick to it. What's her name? Her name is Maddie.

She goes, it's Maddie. What's the last time I saw her? We're talking about a couple of people promoting. About five stories? About five. The whole story is about a lot of stuff. Not five stories, but the last time we saw her. And I was like, you know what? I was like, you know what? How did I control the motor? About five-thirty? About five-thirty.

The whole thing is on the floor, but now it's not forty, the last time we saw her. And I was like, you can't play out here for a little while. And then she disappeared. And nobody knows why she did it. Yeah, when your friends nearby, did you go check? I got everything right here right now.

Okay, so it's the big next door, and then you keep looking, okay? Okay, do you know what I am? You're not doing anything. Next thing, one of my sleepers. at this point in the call, Sheila's husband Steve, who was working a 12-hour shift, pulls into the driveway. There's a brief moment of hope. Maybe Maddie was with her father the whole time, driving around and listening to music or getting a soda down at the gas station. But Steve Clifton walked through the front door alone.

In the background of the 911 call, you can hear Sheila shouting to Steve what every parent fears most. The police arrive, and an extensive search begins to find Maddie Clifton. Ariel searches canine search cadaver dogs endless list of things. Anything we could dream of we tried. The next morning after a long sleepless night, Sheila called Robby Rose, a local radio DJ, to ask the public for help. I guess about five to fifteen, I never got the door. And she got to see me out of the play, because she had finished her chores.

And which was removing all the heavily things out of our friend Yorra and Otham. She brought the turkey in them. And she was going out to play, and it was the last of anybody's show-offers. Community members came together and worked around the clock out of the Clifton's home. The next day my house became a company. Half my church moved into my home and thanks to the good people of San Jose Catholic and my church community they set up shop in my house and they were bound to deter, but they were going to find my little girl. They printed things, they

kept phone calls, it was incredible what the community did. Through the day and into the night, friends and neighbors work with police coming the south side for clues about Matty's whereabouts. On Friday, Matty's family talks publicly for the first time, thanking everyone for their help and the express hope that Matty is still OK. And we're not giving up. This is just the beginning.

We are not giving up on finding Matty. Matty is out there and she's ready to come home. The discontinue for days, days and days. Yes sir. For days I thought it would never end. The search continued throughout the week and into the weekend. That Sunday volunteers handed out yellow ribbons in honor of Maddie to everyone in attendance at the Jacksonville Jaguars game. Although tips were coming in from all over the state of Florida, investigators focused

the majority of their efforts on searching the Clifton's neighborhood. We suspected that Maddie would be found somewhere in the neighborhood, so we pretty much had shut down the neighborhood. We had time. Surveillance there, 24 hours a day. So nothing could be taken out. As a result of that, I think we were able to make certain that if she was there, she couldn't get out. On the morning of Tuesday, November 10th, Maddie's family members were interviewed for a segment on Good Morning America. You know, without any leads to go on, we just don't know what to think.

In the interview, Sheila, Steve, and Jesse Clifton appeared completely exhausted, sitting side by side wearing t-shirts with a big picture of Maddie on them, and the words, help us find Maddie written across the top. After nearly a week of searching, they were physically and emotionally drained. What kept them going was hope that Maddie was still alive. Wherever she is, just let her go somewhere safe and just let her come home to us. That's all we want, that's all anybody wants. Daddy was still alive. As the interview came to an end, there was a knock at the front door, followed by a Good morning America had just wrapped up shooting the story in my home. You and Steve talked about this.

Yes, and they were just, they had just finished wrapping it all up when the police knocked on the door and came in. And from the looks on their faces, I knew what had happened. I knew they'd found her, both Steve and I knew. And they sat I knew they found her. But I was Stephen I knew. And they sat us down on the couch and said, Matt, he was found.

And she was, I don't know exactly how she put it, how they put it, but she was dead. They called Jesse Downstairs, who was up in a room playing monopoly with a police officer, to give her the news. I came down stairs and my family was standing in a circle. It was just like any other day everyone was crying and I said, I got pulled into the middle of the circle and they said, Jesse, we found Mad, and she's no longer with us.

And I cried. And I ran out of garage door, and I started going to her name, because I didn't want to think that that was true. It felt so concrete. For seven days, the Clifton family had held out hope that Maddie was still alive. In a matter of seconds, all of that hope was swallowed up and replaced by disbelief, despair, and the realization that none of them would ever see Maddie alive again. Take a moment to picture the type of criminal who would abduct and kill a sweet innocent 8-year-old girl. I doubt the person you're picturing in your head right now is a 14-year-old kid.

I'm here to announce the arrest of Joshua Earl Patrick Phillips, white male 14 of 6139 Fleetwood Road. Joshua lived at that address with his parents, father, Steve Phillips, and his mother, Melissa Phillips. He has been charged with murder, and he has confessed to the crime of killing Maddie Clifton. Joshua Phillips, 14-year-old who lived across the street from the Clifton's, had confessed to killing Maddie. Sheila and Steve Clifton were not the only ones living a parent's worst nightmare that day. Josh's mother, Melissa Phillips, would later write the following account of how the discovery

was made. That morning I decided to get a head start on helping my 14-year-old son, Joshua, to clean his room. His father and I had both been nagging him for weeks. Josh and his father left the house after 7 a.m. in the morning, and I had a few hours until I had to report to my job as a type-setter at a nearby printing company. I walked into my son's room and shook my head at the mess, wondering where I was going to start.

Indeed, if I was having difficulty, I realized how insurmountable a task it must have seemed to a teenage boy. After I pondered where to begin, I noticed a wet spot on the floor, at the corner of Josh's soft side water bed, and groaned, please don't tell me the bed is leaking. I touched the corner of the mattress and it was soaked. I decided to investigate the cause of the leak rather than tackle the cleaning. I needed to find out how bad the leak was, whether I'd need to drain the better or not. As I left at the corner of the mattress, I noticed a white sock and I figured it was

one of Josh's, so I started to pull on it. But it wouldn't budge. I wondered how it got there in the first place, and now it was puzzled as to why it wouldn't pull free. About that time I noticed black electrical tape holding the black frame of the pedestal together, and surmised the bed must have been leaking for quite some time, and apparently Josh had attempted to hold it together with the tape so he wouldn't get into trouble. The tape pulled away from the pedestal and

the wood gave way, just enough that I could at least see the sock better. I grabbed it and this time I felt something. I still had no idea what I was about to find, but needed more light so I went into another room and retrieved flashlight. As I pulled the pedestal slightly away, the sock fell down and I felt something cold. At the same time, the beam of the flashlight showed me something I could have never been prepared to see. It could not be what I thought it was, yet somehow I knew exactly what I had found. The mother went into the suspects room this morning, and she noticed a fluid coming from under the bed. That couple with an older apparently

aroused her suspicion, and she pulled out the corner of the bed right here. When she pulled that open, she could see the feet of the victim. Melissa Phillips' account continues. I was in shock, and my first thought was to call my husband at work to be with me. Melissa Phillips' account continues. willing it to ring, but it didn't. It seemed an eternity past, even as it seemed time stopped. The police had been in our neighborhood for a week. Ever since a year old Maddie Clifton disappeared, all I had to do was walk out my front door and get an officer to come back with me. It seemed surreal walking out of my front door.

What was I doing? I was about to implicate my own son in this horrifying discovery. As I walked down my driveway, I glanced over at the Clifton's house and realized right then, at that very moment. They still had hope. But in a few moments, they would know their little girl was never coming home again. How could I do this? I did find an officer right up the street, but could not even begin to verbalize what I thought I'd found in my home.

He called for detectives to meet us at the house and they asked me to wait with another officer on my back porch. I prayed and sobbed that what I thought I'd found was not true, but only a few moments later, my worst fears were confirmed. It was indeed the body of Maddie Clifton under my son's water bed. I wanted to die right on the spot. I prayed for it. There was no way I could face what lay ahead for my family. Her body was securely entwined in the encased map of that waterbed. It wasn't like there were legs that you can look under the waterbed.

She was entombed securely and there was clothing that was put around the corners and on the back to make certain that the the order stayed in. Sheriff let me ask you this question as Macabre's just may sound. Are you saying that perhaps for the last seven days someone may have actually been sleeping in that bed not knowing the body was there? I think the suspect knew that the body was there and I think the suspect made a conscious effort to mass the emerging odor by use of incense and the odorizing agents. But yes, he probably stepped in and did. Josh Phillips, after killing Maddie Clifton, had slept with an inches of her decomposing body for seven nights.

On his nightstand was the missing dance recital portrait of Jesse Clifton. After searching for their daughter, Maddie, for nearly seven days, on November 10, 1998, Sheila and Steve Clifton were informed that her body was across the street. Their 14-year-old neighbor, Josh Phillips, had already been placed under arrest for Maddie's murder. Now, did you at some point while you lived there come to know the Phillips family? Yes, they moved in across the street from us and lived there maybe two years. I can't quite put a timing on it. So, approximately two years before November of 1990. Right.

During the two years prior to Maddie's murder, the Clifton's had become familiar with the Phillips family. Their son Josh was quite a bit older than the Clifton's two daughters, but all three of the kids would still play together outside. Did you and Maddie play with the kids in the neighborhood and stuff? Yes, sir. Almost every day. together outside. Sheila and Steve Clifton started to grow wary of Josh and for good reason. My mother approached me one day and she said, do you know a lot about the kid across the street? I said, no, not really. Well, she said, well, he was over her talking to the kids out out in the road because they all gathered around and grew up and he was talking to them about some things that he shouldn't be talking to my granddaughters about.

And I said, what? And she said, well, he said something about being able to have sex because he knew and not get a girlfriend because he knew how to use a rubber. That was what just kind of hit me. And I thought to myself, good Lord, my girl, I don't even know what a rubber is. Actually, there were two instances. One, he was telling a joke.

It was the very inappropriate joke that in 11-year-old or an eight-year-old should not hear. And then also there was a point where there was a magazine that was shown a pornographic like a playboy. I don't remember the name of the magazine, but there was a magazine actually shown to Maddie and I in a couple of the other kids in the neighborhood. Jesse and Maddie told their grandmother about these interactions. Their grandmother told their parents, who in turn instructed the girls to stay away from Josh Phillips. Yeah, I told the both girls under, you know, no uncertain terms that they weren't allowed

to be seen with, or to have any contact with Josh. In fact, you take steps also in fact to prevent Josh from coming into your residence or anywhere under your heart. Yeah, yeah, it's absolutely. I didn't want him around the children at all. When Maddie went missing in November, Josh had been one of the first neighbors to join in the search. They were doing whatever. And I said, has anybody seen Maddie? Josh, have you seen Maddie?

And he picked up this flashlight and he said, no, but I'll go help her. I'll go help Finder. So Josh Phillips got a flashlight and was going to participate in and try to find Maddie. We played Vibol and they are during the search. We played a lot of games multiple times during the search with Josh. He never said anything to you or to anybody to your knowledge about where she was or what that he knew anything. He acted like he didn't know. Correct.. No, sir. He didn't say anything like that.

Josh grabbed a flashlight, went outside to help the family look for Maddie. Played football with Jesse, and then returned home to sleep on top of Maddie's body. As the search dragged on, Steve Clifton, who had previously suspected Josh of breaking into his home, told investigators to look into him as a possible suspect in his daughter's disappearance. At some point, prior to Maddie being found, her body being found, you in fact had told the police that Joshua Phyllis possibly could be the person involved in some way and her disappearance correct? Yes, yeah I did. I told them I had some some strong suspicions because at the time there was no doubt in my mind that he was the one that was breaking into our home and you know some of the statements that he's made around the

children and yes yes I did tell them that. On November 6, three days after Maddie went missing, Detective William Taylor of the Jacksonville Sheriff's Office, was tasked with searching the Phillips Residence. Did you end up going to the Phillips Residence on Fleetwood Road, sir. Yes, I did. Okay. Specifically, did you end up going to that residence and talking to Joshua Phillips?

Yes, I did. When Detective Taylor arrives, Josh answers the door and calmly informs him that his parents are not home. Detective Taylor then speaks to Josh's mom on the phone and gains permission to search the residents. During the search, Detective Taylor sits down to speak with Josh. And did that include that conversation that you had with him? Did that include me and that's that?

Yes. conversation that you had with him today, who made it that's that is better. Yes. And did he at any time when you're speaking to him sit on that bed? Yes, he did. Okay. As we entered the bedroom, he entered the bed with me, and he went and kind of lay across the bed with his legs

hanging off the side. Did you smell anything when you were in there talking to Joshua Phillips? I walked in and I noted foot of the bit. There was a large wire crate that was apparently his puppy's cage. I observed in the crate three piles of manure and also observed in the left-hand corner that there was a cage that had, I believe it was two paracetamins and I observed that there looked to be about three or four inches of bird drop in sense so there was a strong smell in there any else. So here we have a 14 year old kid sitting across

from a veteran detective, knowing that there is a body decomposing beneath the mattress he's sitting on. Most experienced adult aged criminals would crack under pressure like that. But amazingly, Josh remains calm. He answers detective Taylor's questions without hesitation. If you could tell us what you asked in terms of just talking to him, what you asked

Joshua Phillips and what he told you on that day. I was going through his room. I had searched in the closet. There had been a big pile of clothes and I went through those, and there was a teddy bear at the bottom. And then I turned around, and I started tapping the sides of the bed to see if it was a sturdy contact. And I said, Josh, this is a water bed.

He said, yes, and I said, do you like it? He said, yeah, he said, I do. I said, yeah, we'd have one at one time and liked it for a while and all. And then I said, Josh, what do you think may have happened to Maddie? And he said, I really don't want him to think about what happened to him. The detective Taylor leaves the residence without realizing that he's been talking to

Maddie's killer and sitting within feet of her body. The Phillips residence was searched two more times by investigators prior to Josh's mom discovering what her son had been hiding. We had searched that house three previous times, and the reason that we didn't find Maddie was because of the way she was encased in the bed. We had a consent to search. And ordinarily, we would not disassemble furniture with the consent with people in the neighborhood being cooperative.

And as a result of that, we did not find her body. We did have dogs on the outside of this house, but the dogs never went in. So it wasn't, it was not like the dog mister. on the outside of this house, but the dogs never went in. So it wasn't, it was not like the dog missed up. After the body was discovered, Sheriff Nat Glover held a press conference to update the media. It was quite a gruesome site.

I don't want to get too graphic here, but when you start to smell a body then of course They're at a stage of decomposition and it's one of those sites that no matter how long you've been a police officer It's one that sticks in your mind and and it will stick in my mind Inside the bedroom there was a bloody pair of tennis shoes on the floor One of the fan blades on the ceiling was dotted with blood. On Josh's nightstand, there was a missing person's flyer with Maddie's picture on it. Sitting next to the stolen photograph of Jesse Inner Dance Leotard. Maddie Clifton's body was still inside the panelled bed frame. Her shorts and underwear had been removed.

An autopsy would later reveal that she had been stabbed twice in the neck and nine times in the chest, in addition to suffering blunt force trauma to the head. By the time her body was discovered, it had deteriorated so extensively that at her funeral, the casket had to remain closed. I wanted desperately to see Maddie before she was buried. The funeral home director said too much time had passed, but I did not want to remember Maddie that way. I could not say goodbye to her.

I could not kiss her or hold her. They told me she was in that casket, but I could not kiss her or hold her. They told me she was in that casket, but I could not see her." In Josh's room, investigators recovered what they believed to be the murder weapons. We found a lever, a knife, and a baseball bat. All of the evidence, however, only told part of the story. The only person who knew the complete story, whether or not he was willing to tell the truth, was Joshua Phillips himself. After he was arrested, Joshua told Detective William Taylor that everything started when

he accidentally hit Maddie in the eye with a baseball while playing with her in his backyard. And did he say, according to this version of what he told you, that he then brought her inside the residence? Yes, he did. Okay. And did he say that Maddie Clifton started crying or making some moaning in his result, he then got the baseball bat and started hitting her.

Yes, that she became loud with her cry and start to scream. And that's when he took the bat and struck her. Upon request, Detective Taylor stands up to demonstrate how Josh had struck Maddie with the baseball bat. I took the baseball bat and he did that. And then he said he was there and said she stopped for a moment, then started mowing at a grin, and then he held the bat like this and kind of jabbed her on the head. And then she quieted down, but then started back, and he then took the third full swing onto her head.

Josh proceeded to remove the side panel of his bed frame and place Maddie inside. According to expert testimony, Maddie likely would have died from the head injuries within about half an hour. But before that happened, from within the bed frame, Maddie started moaning again. He pulled her back out and then he said he stabbed her in the throat. With a knife? Yes. Did he then say what he did after he stabbed him? He said he pushed her back underneath the bed, put the sawdust up, and then left his room.

And as he was leaving the room, his father was coming in from work. Josh said he went to the bathroom, washed his hands because he had blood on him. And as he came back out of the bathroom and got by his door, he heard her struggling to breathe again. And he went back in his room, closed his door, pulled down the side of the bed, pulled her out, and then stabbed her several times in the chest. He then said he put her back in and went outside or went back in the living room to the kitchen to finish cooking dinner for him. And did he say he then subsequently ate dinner

with his parents? Yes. Okay. Now did Joshua Phillips tell you about the clothing, how Maddie Clifton's panties and shorts were removed from the body. Said that he had attempted to drag her from outside and that that didn't work and he picked her up brought her in and later down inside the back door, and then wanted to move her to the bedroom, tried to move her again, and that's when her pants and

a panties came off. Now, you were challenging mom that you were just letting him talk to tell you what he said, correct? Yes. Even those subsequent investigations proved that not to be accurate in terms of that part of the school. Josh claimed that the entire series of events bringing Maddie up to his bedroom, beating her with a baseball bat, stabbing her twice in the neck, stabbing her nine times in the chest, and hiding her underneath his bed for a week. He said all of it had happened because he didn't want

to get in trouble. He said that he was afraid that he was going to get in trouble with his dad and that he was afraid and he only wanted her to stop crying. I questioned him. Why would you, if you had, should have been hit in the head, why, you know, do more injury to her? And he said he was just afraid and panicked. In the eyes of the justice system, Joshua Phillips, at fourteen years old, was no longer a child. His actions made him an adult, and he was thereby charged with first degree premeditated murder. The case went to trial in the summer of 1999, and Joshua faced a maximum sentence of life in prison without the possibility

of parole. His attorney, Richard Nichols, argued that Joshua's age alone made him incapable of first-degree murder. Nichols argued that Josh had committed manslaughter, not murder. State prosecutor Harry Shorstein made the case that Josh's version of events did not add up. He pointed out that there was no blood found on the baseball that had supposedly knocked Maddie out. There was no dirt found on Maddie's clothes, indicating that she was likely lured inside,

not dragged while unconscious. Instead, Shorstein argued that the murder was not an accident. Emphasizing that there were three separate attacks, he continued that the murder was sexually motivated, pointing out the defendant's apparent infatuation with the victim's older sister, as well as the fact that he had removed Maddie's clothes. The prosecution presented evidence for roughly five hours, even bringing the entire mattress into the courtroom to demonstrate where the body had been found.

The defense did not call a single witness. On July 8, after two hours of deliberation, the jury reached a verdict, finding Josh Phillips guilty of first degree murder. At Josh's sentencing hearing on August 20th, Steve and Melissa Phillips expressed their disappointment and outrage over their son's guilty verdict. There is no one on this earth who was more shocked at the discovery in his bedroom than I. There are no words to describe, but I felt that morning. And I stand here still, with reasonable doubt in my heart, but Josh even did what he was convicted of.

But for the state, to prosecute a 14-year-old for first degree murder is ludicrous and obscene. Judge Charles Arnold disagreed. It is written in the 17th chapter of Luke that Jesus said to his disciples that it would be better if a millstone were hung around your neck and that you were thrown into the sea than to cause harm to a child. I'm certain that on Judgment Day you Joshua Opatrick Phillips will be given a four

harsher sentence that I can impose. Josh Phillips was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole. After the trial, State prosecutor Harry Shorstein stated, quote, everyone has suffered, everyone has lost. Only the system of justice has prevailed." But did the justice system prevail? Or did it unnecessarily take the life of a second child? At age 15, Josh Phillips was sent to adult prison for the rest of his life. In 2002, Josh appealed his conviction on the grounds that life imprisonment should be considered cruel and unusual punishment for a juvenile. His appeal was denied, and he was out of legal options.

The fact that I had to come to terms in dealing with that I'm going to die in here, I might do 67 years in prison, really help me mature and helped me grow morally and helped me develop empathy. I'm a much stronger empathy now than I ever had. In October of 2008, after spending nearly a decade behind bars, Josh participated in an interview with Florida Times Union. In the interview, he speaks out about what it was like, as a teenager, to come to grips with the thought of spending the rest of your life in prison.

And then one day, it just kind of hit me, I remember what it was, too. I came out of the chow hall. I came out of the chow hall, I see this line of people. And there they are. There's like, like, 30 or 40 of them and as that will come on the panhandle and they're all old, they're all 60, 70 years old you know the order just 50 and look really bad you know because it's a prison time

gun rough on them. They all got canes and walkers and so on that it's the pill line they're gonna pick up their medication and it's like wow you know even that's gonna be me and that's what it really hit me is like, oh my God. And I got really depressed, what that happened? And I was depressed, I was in a funk for a little while because it finally set in. And I really started thinking like, man, and that's a lot, because the first was just that,

that's gonna be me. Then I didn't realize how long it was gonna take me to get there. So that's when I realized, like, oh my goodness, I'm 15 to do this. I'm 5-2 years old. You know, it's going to be 60 years before I look like that. You know what I mean? And then even then, I might live longer, you know.

Josh has asked if he ever thinks about Maddie Clifton. All the time. All the time. And that's a... It always puts me in a mindset or it's like, not always, but a lot of times, I end up going like, all right, well, maybe I did deserve being here. Maybe I deserve to be my most time. I deserve dying of prison. But I always usually come back and thought I can't look at it like that, you know what I mean?

And that doing that is just a cop out and fake it, you know what I mean? To say it's true and why would I try to learn anything? Why would I try to improve myself? Why would I try to do anything to help anybody? If I'm just gonna lay down and just die in here, you know. So a lot of people say, do you think you deserve to get out? I have my same age as I've always said before. I really don't know if I deserve it or not, you know? But I know I want it. I want to get out.

I want a second chance. And I know that I would do by it. I know I would do good. When I think about it now, I always, I had this, I had like an apology, like, anything I go through. To make sure that she knows that I'm sorry and also that I'm trying to make her life or something. I'm trying because I'm still here so I'm trying to

make certain that I can be somebody. You know, not because I need to be somebody, but because I can be someone who can help people. You know, I don't want to be just about Josh. Josh also speaks out about his hesitancy to write an apology to the Clifton family. I've had a lot of people say, you know, hey, you should write and do a apology thing, you know. And I'm like, I can't do that.

You know, it has to be that would be really cheesy. You know what I mean? It is, it is the thing you're working. I can't do that. Something like that, if I were ever taught, what would have to be something personal. They deserve to hear it from me in person. If it's gonna be something like that in a way,

it has to in person. If it's something like that in the middle of the week, it has to be there. And I have, you know, to say you can see the sincerity. They won't be able to see it in the letter. You know, I mean, and I wouldn't be able to see it through a phone call or they won't be able to see it while I'm on TV with them or something in the middle of the week. They have to see it in person. If they saw me talk to them, they would see it. They wouldn't have a doubt in their mind, you know. It would be another nine years before Josh would get his chance to apologize to the Clifton family and person. In 2012, the United States Supreme Court decided that automatic sentences of life without parole for juveniles was unconstitutional.

To then take a juvenile who's convicted even of first-degree homicide and give him a mandatory life sentence was unconstitutional because of the lack of consideration of the various important ways in which juveniles are different from the dots. And in terms primarily, in terms of their development, their mental status, their ability to emotional and maturity, ability to appreciate risk, and their susceptibility to their environment and external influences. In 2016, the Supreme Court decided that the 2012 ruling must be applied retroactively, meaning that over 2,000 inmates around the country who were handed life sentences as juveniles could be given a new sentence.

One of those inmates was Josh Phillips. Phillips's case was given another look after the US Supreme Court ruled that mandatory juvenile life sentences is unconstitutional. In 2016, now in his 30s, Josh was granted a resettancing hearing. During the hearing, multiple witnesses testified that Josh Phillips had been a model in mate during his time in prison. So here's what I can say. His prison record looks pretty darn good for the amount of time that he's done.

He's got really four minor disciplinary reports. He moved jobs a lot, but that's exactly what the department does. He's had some pretty good jobs. I don't see any periods of confinement really or any time that he's not working. So in general, it's a pretty good clean record. On the stand, Dr. James Garberino, a developmental psychologist who interviewed Josh in February of 2017, was asked if Josh Phillips would be likely to reoffend if he were released from prison. He did not have a violent criminal history before he committed the crime and his record in prison is my understanding does not involve violent criminal activity in prison.

So I think all of these factors would load on an expectation that he would be a pro-social safe citizen upon released. Former State prosecutor Harry Shorstein, the same man who prosecuted Josh Phillips back in 1999, testified to the advancements made by the scientific community in the time since that trial. The bottom line, and I'll be quiet, let's ask my questions, is that there's no question that you're looking at a different individual

at age 14, and you'd be looking at at age 20, 21, 22, or older. It's pretty much a scientific fact that we weren't fully aware of at the time of this draw. Shorstein asked if, given this knowledge, he might have considered charging Josh with something other than first degree murder. I don't want to be invasive.

I don't know. It's a very tough, a lot of times in the law, you know, we think we know everything and everything has a black and white answer. I would give it greater weight, a decision to charge with second to remurder because of the evidence we have today that we didn't have at that time. And you would be the only one making that decision, correct? Yes, sir. It's not easy for a prosecutor to admit that he might have put a kid behind bars for the rest of his life based on outdated scientific information.

After hearing that admission, it's difficult not to at least consider that Josh Phillips might be a victim of a flawed legal system. Even if that is the case, however, this is not a black and white issue. Josh is by no means an innocent victim, and it is important to remember the consequences of his actions and the actual victim. Maddie Clifton In their victim impact statements, the Clifton family reminded the court just how permanent those consequences are. didn't wonder what her life would have been like. The defendant now wants a second chance to live a normal life. Who does Maddie get to appeal her death sentence to? Who grants

her a second chance at a normal life? Why should the defendant be allowed to live normally while Maddie lies and coldly to grave? Joshua's incarceration is not going to bring Maddie back or restore the lives of our families, but a punishment must be applied. I believe Joshua Phillips has been the rest of his life in prison for what he took from us all. I can't bring myself to think that you should ever, ever be able to walk outside of a prison because she can't. On August 9th, 2017, nearly 20 years after taking the life of Maddie, Josh Phillips was finally given the opportunity to address her family face to face. This is for the family of Maddie Cliffin.

I've wanted to say this for a very long time and I'm grateful that it's chance to do so in person has arrived. I don't pretend to know or understand your pain or the grass avoid that I have created in your lives. I can't say this. I do understand pain. I have become quite intimate with suffering. Growing up in prison, I have seen many dark things and I've been in some dark places.

Many times throughout this journey I came driftily close to ending my life just to escape it all. During these times I was embroiled in a flurry of emotions and feelings. Guilt, despair, pain, hopelessness, fear and shame. hopelessness, fear, and shame. Each time I was somehow able to continue on, most because I couldn't stand to put my mother through any more trauma. She's been through enough. There were times that I was angry at her

because I couldn't end my pain because of her love. Yet now I'm eternally grateful to her. I'm grateful to her because as I've grown up I have learned the value of life. I have learned to see the beauty, enjoy, and a world full of strife and experience the truth of unconditional love. I wish to God that I could have known this or understood that when I was 14, had I then none of this would have come about. I had no clue what life meant, what death meant? Nor the depths of suffering that could follow one act. I had no inkling of how long that suffering could last.

I hadn't lived long enough to understand the time involved or what really suffering was. I did something horrible. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry for what happened. My next breath is always devoted to wishing peace and healing upon you all. My hopes, fears and wishes probably mean nothing to you, but they are all the same. May you know peace, may you be free from suffering, and may you feel the love that is the sustenance of life itself. May God bless you and heal your wounds as much as possible."

The state ultimately asked that Josh's life sentence be reaffirmed. And the defense asked for a new sentence of 40 years with credit for time already served. On November 17th, Judge Wadal Wallace announced his decision. With sadness and feeling difficult to go through with this, I have included and I explained it in detail in the sensing order why I do feel having gone through the evidence carefully and carefully gone through all the statutory factors. I believe that this is one of those rare and unusual crimes where these circumstances are such as to warrant life in prison. And that's even

with a man who committed these acts when he's only 14 years of age. The Supreme Court decision that led to Josh's resettencing hearing made an exception for juvenile offenders who are irreparably corrupt, irredeemably depraved, are permanently incurraigable. In his 31 page,

sentencing order, Judge Wallace wrote, quote, Dosh's actions in inflicting injuries causing death, particularly in silencing Maddy Clifton by repeated stabbing after he had dismissed her as dead, as well as as cold and callous demeanor in hiding her decomposing body, represent a level of depravity that cannot be explained or attributed to immaturity and petuosity, recklessness, or heedless risk-taking. The crime committed by the defendant is indeed the uncommon case that qualifies for a life sentence."

This brings us back to the question we asked at the top of the episode. Was the murder of Maddie Clifton a monstrous act or the act of a monster? According to the criminal justice system, at this point it is the latter. That does it for this episode of Sword and Scale. We hope you've enjoyed it. Please join us on social media, Facebook, Instagram and Twitter. If you like the show, join us on Patreon as well. Give us five bucks and we'll give you a whole bunch more content commercial free. Also, if you're in a cute little fluffy animals, check out the newest addition to the Sword

and Scale family. Little duck I rescued from the back of the lake, his name is Flappers. You can find him on Instagram and Twitter to search for at flappers duck. And by the way, please donate to your local ASPCA. Leave your kids indoors, don't let them go outside, don't let them play with any other kids. Whoever said video games were bad, play station, all the way. You can't get heard if you don't know what the outdoors look like.

Also, I'm not a parent, so don't take any of my advice. But until next time, try and stay safe. you