Sword and Scale - Episode 124

Episode Date: October 13, 2018

In 1997, Shannon McCrossan moved with her two daughters, 8-year-old Kirsten Hatfield and 3-year-old Faith to a home on Jet Drive in Midwest City, OK. At the time, life seemed to be okay. The neighbors were friendly and there were children for the girls to play with. On May 13th, 1997, Shannon awoke to any mother’s worst nightmare. Kirsten was missing from her bedroom.Searches were made for the 8-year-old girl, but she was never found. The trail ran cold, until 2015 when the case was reopened and re-examined, leading investigators to a suspect in the unlikeliest of places…See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Sort and scale contains adult themes and violence and is not intended for all audiences Listener discretion is advised I could have never Fathom someone would come into my home and take my little girl. I could have not fathomed that. Welcome to season 5, episode 124 of Sword and Scale, a show that reveals that the worst monsters are real. ["Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow A murder that may have never been solved if not for the advances of science. Sometimes when you have nothing else, you have to rely on circumstantial evidence. And despite there being plenty of physical evidence just lying around, it may be years before science catches up and allows us to use that evidence in favor of the prosecution and in favor of justice.

Suburbia. A place where well-painted homes line smoothly paved streets. Some have picket fences. Others boast perfectly manicured lawns. We move to these places with the idea of fulfilling the so-called American dream. Most days are routine. Wake up, get ready for work, get the kids to school, wave to the neighbors and go about the day. In this type of environment, you and your family are supposed to feel safe, protected in some way, able to trust those around you.

But if a child were to go missing, would you still have that trust in your neighbors? Would your interactions with any of these people around you change? Springtime weather in central Oklahoma is often tumultuous. Warm humid air draws north from Mexico while the cool, dri air flows down from Canada, creating a bevy of severe weather conditions. Thunderstorms that are capable of producing large hail and tornadoes are not rare during this time of year. In 1997, on days that weren't storming, it wasn't unusual to see children playing in

their neighborhoods, riding bikes, playing on the street, while the parents would sit out on their porches and converse with their neighbors. Most kids wouldn't go inside until the street lights came on, an indication that it was getting late and time to wash up for dinner. On the evening of May 13, 1997, Shannon McCrossin put her daughter's eight-year-old cursed in Hatfield and three-year-old faith to sleep. Around 11pm before heading to bed, Shannon peaked her head in the doorway to check on the girls.

The door was left open, as always. According to Shannon, she was awoken sometime around 3am to the sound of faith crying. She got up, went to check on her, and the door to the girl's bedroom was shut. She opened the door and looked inside. Everything appeared fine, so she went back to sleep. Upon waking up in the morning, Shannon made a disturbing discovery. A year old morning and she's not in her bed. She's missing. She's eight years old. Okay. I'm con for my neighbor's house. I'm in a 1108 get dry. My birthday old was crying. Their door was shut. I just went out with it. I didn't even look at this.

There. And then I went back to the band. I didn't shut their door. Just put me with that. What is your daughter's name? Kristen. Kristen? Take IR. Kristen. Okay, IR is the same last name? No, half the old one.

Okay. Hold on just a minute. Yeah, and then when you were, were she might have went? No. Any friends over there? I don't have a friend Kristen, I was sure I have a check. And I went to my, while attempting to call back the dispatcher makes a chilling statement. Police responded to 1108 jet drive. Upon arrival, investigators noted that the window to Curson and Faith's room had drops of blood on the outside window sill. Further investigation

of the property would lead to the discovery of Curson's underwear near a fence in the backyard of the home. The underwear also had blood on it. Multiple law enforcement agencies assisted in the search of 8-year-old Kirsten, including the FBI. Nearby fields were searched, neighborhoods were canvassed, but there was no additional leads to follow-up on. The only information provided by a neighbor was that he heard his dog barking around two

or three in the morning, but he'd gone back to sleep. Days turned to weeks, weeks turned to months, and months, into years. The trail had gone cold in the disappearance of Kirsten Hatfield from her bedroom in the middle of the night. Shannon talked with the press many years later about the night Kirsten went missing. I could have never fathomed. Someone would come into my home and take my little girl. I could have not fathomed. Someone would come into my home and take my little girl. I could have not fathomed that, but I did.

When I woke up and found her missing, I did recall that door being closed. I believed in a rescue for a long time with Carson. And by a long time, I believed that she would have came home alive for a good, at least a good year. Just a beautiful soul, just an absolute beautiful, so it would have been thrilling to see what she would have grown up to be. Even though years had passed, detectives at the Midwest City Police Department refused

to give up on the case. It's a case that sticks with all of us here at this department. Obviously it was a huge case in the history of our agency and for the city. There was a lot of man hours, a lot of time put into trying to solve the case and trying to locate her. She was never found, so it's possible she is still alive. And you know, different people have different feelings

on that. Now, this all happened in 1997. In 2015, 18 years later, the case of Kirsten Hatfield's disappearance was formally reopened with Detective Darryl Miller leading the investigation. Upon further review of the information, Detective Miller contacted FBI Special Agent Nate Fur. Detective Miller and Special Agent Fur went through the case file. They found the blood evidence that was recovered from

Kirsten's window sill in underwear and had it retested. They also found cigarette butts in the Hatfield backyard and had those tested as well. After all, this was 18 years after Kirsten's disappearance. DNA testing was far more advanced than it had been previously. They were hoping to get a match on a suspect. The tests showed that both blood samples from the window sill and underwear were a match, and the blood belonged to a man. The DNA was run through the combined DNA index system

or codis for short, but unfortunately yielded no match. Over the next few months, Detective Miller and Special Agent Furr met with a few of the male suspects that had originally been brought up in the investigation back in 1997. One name that came up to investigators was 56-year-old Anthony Palmer, a groundskeeper at Lake Thunderbird in Norman, who might have previously done landscaping work at the Hatfield Residence. On June 1, 2015, Detective Miller and Special Agent Fur drove to Anthony's house located at 1104 Jet Drive. Just two houses down from where Kirsten Hatfield was abducted. Shannon describes her encounter with Anthony after Kirsten

went missing. Everybody was creepy to me back then. So there was something that stood out about him. in went missing. According to Shannon, their encounter left her with an uncomfortable feeling. When both detective Miller and special agent Fur arrived at Anthony Palmer's residence, they were greeted by his wife, Leietta. Leietta told both investigators that Anthony was at work, but she remembered the case. She had not been living in the home with Anthony at the time of the Kirsten disappearance, as they had gotten married in 1999, several years later.

But she did tell investigators, Anthony would get quite upset when Kirsten's name and case was brought up. This was something that struck investigators as unusual. They asked Leia da if she knew why he got upset. According to Leia da, Anthony told her that he got upset only because it happened so close to his house. They then asked Leia da if she could reach Anthony at work so they could go talk with them. Both investigators drove down to Lake Thunderbird, a lake reservoir that supplies the water to Del City, Midwest City, and Norman areas. After informing Anthony that they were reopening the investigation in the Kirsten's disappearance,

they asked him if he'd be willing to give a buckle swab for DNA comparison. He agreed. Months later, on October 12, 2015, Anthony willingly came into the Midwest City Police Department to further speak with investigators regarding the disappearance of Kirsten. Well, you know, as I was saying, clearly, you know, it's something we have to do. Well, we have to find by all. We appreciate all enforcement and all that. In here's where we're kind of ahead.

We're still looking at the person at field. Because Anthony came in on his own terms, investigators had to read him his rights before any questioning. Well, we get started here, Tony. Let me go ahead and I want to reach here. We're in the warning, okay? You have the right for men, Simon. Anything you say can and maybe you should mention the bill of law.

You have the right to talk to a lawyer and have him present with you or you're being questioned. But if you cannot afford the higher lawyer, one will be appointed to represent you before you're questioning if you wish one. And if you decide to make a statement, you can stop at any time. And do you understand each of those rights, obviously, Andy?

Having those rights in mind, do you wish to talk to us? Yes. As my partner, Linger said, we're still working on that field case. OK? There's some things that we want to go back over with you. We're trying to be as thorough as we can be on cases like this. And I'd like to go back initially over some of what you've already talked to or about in the past. I wasn't there. I'm kind of up to speed on some of it, but

my understanding is, is wind person disappeared? You were still living there? Just at the level for correct? Okay. Do you mind just initially kind of take us back to 1997? Anthony went on to explain what really drew him to that particular neighborhood. Most of the people in that area were old retirees. And you know, I'd be doing stuff all the time. You know, I was always outside and somebody's working on their vehicle. Got to go beef busy, body, you know, and help them. Or somebody was washing the scenes, broke down,

the older people, you know, they can't nigh older people. You know, can't do stuff. And I've always been mechanically inclined, you know, where I could figure stuff out, you know, or help them move this. Or, you know, just, I've always or, you know, just I've always been not about friendly but neighborly. Investigators wanted to know more about his interactions with children in the neighborhood. After all, kids played in the street on a near daily

basis. Well, did you help any of the kids over there? Well, when the teacher, the always, there's always, that's in my family house. Well, I don't know about Kool-Aid. I've always been my pet peeve. I grew up hungry. You know, when I don't, there's a lot of kids hungry. You know, I don't like that. I mean, not where I do that in my way. Hey, you hungry. But I mean, not where I go down my way. But I mean, you see kids, you're over there eating something, and they're just, you know, you see them draw. And you're like, you can't stand there.

Yeah. And I'm like that now. I got two damn kids in my house. Drone boys, one of the, he says that when he was at his house, they didn't eat from Monday to Friday till he got to my house. I was usually outside working on my yard, either top of the neighbors or can't come back down. Can you fix my bike? You know, stuff like that. You know, I can't tell them to come over or anything. Both investigators are curious about what Anthony can remember about the night that And take your time, I know we're going back some years. Yeah, I know, starting to get that old-time or stuff. But really, the only thing I can really remember is afterwards.

According to Anthony, he'd seen a 70s model Chevy truck parked outside the Hatfield residence before he went to bed on May 13, 1997. You remember anything about the day or evening before you said it was just a typical day? before he went to bed on May 13th, 1997. During the original investigation, police had gotten information that Anthony may have know, stand the white truck in front of the white shady truck in front of the guard. During the original investigation, police had gotten information that Anthony may have done work at the Hatfield Residence. He told police that he had done landscaping throughout the neighborhood. But when directly questioned about that particular residence, Anthony claimed not to have done any work there. In fact, Anthony told police he didn't even know the Hatfield family at all. know how long they've been living there when this happened. I go into the thing they haven't been there very long. Since

Anthony claimed to have never met Shannon, Kirsten, or Faith, investigators wanted to know if he'd ever seen the family as they only lived two houses away on the same side of the road. So you never, I'm assuming you probably saw Shannon and person running around the grid and so forth. The truth until that happened, I think I've seen the kid, but she was playing with a crystal that lived up the street.

But I don't remember if it was in that time frame or what, I don't really know, because I'd rather say, I said I need no attention. Back in 1997, when he was originally questioned, Anthony had a dog. And get this, the dog's name was dog. I'm not I'm not shitting you. That's actually what the dog's name was. Anyway, Anthony's dog named dog was barking around two or three in the morning. After waking up, he claimed he went back to bed. 18 years later, presumably dogs not around anymore, Anthony had a different version of what happened that night.

I was kind of having to go back over what you remember through the night and I read over the FBI notes that they took when they talked to you. I guess there's some information about you hearing dogs more. I had a dog in the backyard dog because they was dog about 3, 4 o'clock in the morning. You went to raise an L. So I just, you know, later on in my neighborhood, we served us goats and possums and stuff like that. Plus other dogs, you know. So I don't know why that woke me up, but because I usually didn't wake up and then usually he's out inside anyway. But it woke me up and he was barking at that back fence, at our back fence. But at the

time, as you walk out my back door, I had a no-aper-cut tree. So unless you went out there, you know, you couldn't see it and I just hollered at him because you know taking it was another dog because there was always and traffic there was human traffic back there but you can't have other dogs yeah there was other dogs or cats there's always animals to do there so I just you know I really didn't take them back I just hollered at him and he came in and I'm going to bed. So you actually let him back in the house? So you opened for your back door, and you said, I'm gonna let him in.

Did you go investigate? Did you look down the alley? Anything like that? Because usually in the past, when I run the investment, it was, was either another dog or people used that alleyway, you know, to get through it. Why, I don't know,

because I don't know where you'd be going, if it didn't, from house to house, but there was always, not always, but there was traffic. Looking at a Google Maps view of 1104 jet drive, there is no alleyway behind Anthony Palma's house. In fact, his backyard is set against another neighbor's backyard. The only alleyway in the vicinity of jet Drive is on the opposite side of the street. When Anthony originally gave a statement to police in 1997, he told him that his gate had been ajar the evening of Kirsten's disappearance. I think the BID will be able to go out into the alley and you can back the trailer up and

it seems like everybody had a game. Well, the house next door to me didn't have a fence. So whatever I weeded in or did whatever, because I weeded two foot around from my fence, the next door and then that alleyway could stay away from us. Because I read your statement, you said, you saw your gate of joy. What your gate was that?

Gate of joy. Yeah. You didn't have a gate on the back. You were on the side. Did you have a gate on the side of that? Yeah, I've got a gate. Well, it have a gate on the back. You're on the side. Did you have a gate on the side? Yeah, I don't have a gate. Well, it's a gate, but no, it wasn't on the door. The morning of Kirsten's disappearance, Anthony claimed he'd gone to work and was called

back home by a neighbor. I went to work and then I don't remember. She called me or I called over there, but they said there there's one people back you know because they wanted to go. There are houses and blah blah blah so it's locked out and came back home. Do you remember what time it was? They called out and came back home. Was this morning? Was this afternoon?

Probably been a good morning so I'm going to get it. That neighbor told him that law enforcement wanted to speak to all residents and search all homes. Did you have somebody that called me? They said we were wanted back in our house. So, I didn't even know. And then what happened? I just sat there. Did any of our officers from the FBI or anybody come by?

It was a FBI. You know, okay. We came in, took statements, you know, walked to the house and, you know, wanted to go in the backyard, you know, because I had a shed back there. He wanted to look in the shed. Okay. So he did look through the house and get through the shed. You probably don't remember who that was, I'm sure no. Okay.

On the outside, Anthony seemed like a normal guy, employed by the state, married, mostly friendly to neighbors. But the investigators questioning him wanted to know more about his life. Seven, ten years ago, hunting with you. Experimenting with any drugs? No. Every day? No.

I drink beer. Is drinking? I drink beer. As drink beer. I drink beer. As far as drugs now. He ever had any trouble with the wall? A year ago, first we burned him and we were talking about him with a dangerous weapon. I got told you're partner about. Really?

That one was a dumb kid. How long ago was that I was I think it's turned 18 Oh, he was just a boy. Yeah In the last 17 years time, have you? Did you change much this day? You were 17 years ago? Just a hard-working man Yeah, that's basically years ago. Just a hard working man. Yeah, that's basically a change older was, but no, not the same person I was 17 years ago. I matured a little bit. Always ugly about that.

Life changes people, you know, as you get older, you start recognizing things that you could handle differently than what you, if you had it to do over a year and you'd change. You know, I can. Because Anthony had continued to live on jet drive up until the point of this interrogation, the investigators wanted to know what he thought had happened to Kirsten. Maybe in all the years of living there, he had noticed one of his neighbors acting strange, doing something unusual, such as naming their dog dog, or maybe something else. Less obvious.

I mean, you've been living there all these years, since Kirsten went missing. I'm curious about your thoughts on what happened, who might be involved, that kind of thing. I don't know, I can say the truth, I can't say it, I didn't know them. But one thing that's always bothered me, that she left the mom, she went to Jones, I guess, with her dad or something like that, you can have got me off out of my house. Now, I mean, you know, it comes back or you know what it's somebody makes a call or you know someone like that. There would no way I'd left a house. That's the other thing that bothers me. Yeah. You felt like she

shouldn't have left home. Yeah. Yeah. Did you ever at any point over these years or back when it occurred having all the jipple half-funder who was involved or you and anybody involved. No. So you're not responsible for persons disappearance. No. Didn't play any part in that. Like I said, didn't know them. Didn't have, like I said, I just barely, you know, might have seen her once, twice, played with the kids, but other than that, I didn't know. When investigators asked what Anthony thought the motive might have been in the young girl's disappearance, he offered an interesting theory. Just to have a curiosity, what do you think the motivation was

to ever get this? Why would this have happened? Well, then I couldn't have told you, but after over the years, you know, and hearing the rumors and this and that and the other, it made always bulls down the drugs. You know, I heard that she was on-math and cocaine and Don's wife was same thing. You know, she said, yeah, she didn't know that night and they got lit up. She said, yeah, she didn't over there that night, and they got lit up. So apparently she did get lit up because,

you know what somebody did come in? I mean, wouldn't you have heard it? During the original investigation in 1997, Shannon, Kristen's mother, told police, she believed that her daughter's disappearance may have been perpetrated by someone their family knew. Investigators agreed that this was a plausible theory, as only someone familiar with the family and residents would be capable of sneaking into the home, taking the girl through

the window and over the fence without her making a sound. Shannon also told investigators that she was involved with drugs at the time of Curson going missing, and that it was possible herductor was connected to the drug trade. The interrogation turned to Aaron Hatfield, Shannon's brother. Aaron had volunteered to help with the search of Kirsten. During his search, he ended up meeting Anthony. Hey, he was in the neighborhood, you know, he's looking apparently looking for, you know, his niece. So I'm out there one day and he starts, and he talks, you know anything?

Blah, blah, blah, you know, we just got the dog coming. You know, he's living in a damn, you know, under a bridge. And there, you know, I found out already that he, that night, that he'd been knocked up. You know, so he went to suspect him a lot of times. So yeah, I opened my house to, you know, he being, I know, because I did to suspect them all about it. So yeah, I opened my house to you know, you being... I know because I did that for anybody, you know.

It's safe to say, but that's the kind of guy I have. According to Anthony, he ended up having to kick Aaron out of his house after a few days. How long did Aaron stay there with you? Just a couple of days and then, you know, he'd go off and then he'd come back and then I wanted to have him to just Tell me he could come back because he was on that too. Then at the time that no it Yeah, not anything that says you you've heard the channels using drugs to I mean, I don't know for four or five But that's what I heard and it I'll just say this, if you ever party with them, if you knew they were doing drugs or witnessed it,

just tell us that. I don't know. We're not, no. I don't, I don't know. Like I said, there's, and y'all know, you got people that do drugs, you got people that drink. And you don't do drink and you don't, you know, do. I drink.

But no, I never party with them. And further speaking with detectives, Anthony told them Aaron had once said something that would stick in his mind. Did he ever confide in you, anything about the case, or anything about you? He couldn't clear a sister. Those words were always, you know, I can't do this the way he said it. I can't clear my sister. So he was suspicious of the chance. Did he ever give you any real factual information that would be beneficial to the case?

No, I'm not. I said, I'm here alone, free will. If I had any information, yeah, I'd give it to you. Because I'd be the same thing. If something were to happen to my daughter, my guy. Yeah. Quickly, the investigator shift direction with where the interrogation is heading. In July of 2015, just months prior to this interrogation, the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation

or OSBI got their final hit on the DNA left at the crime scene. We've talked a lot about the background. I want to talk to you about some new information developed in this case. As you know, Detective Miller got some buckles swaps from you here a couple of months back or whatever it was. There was a reason for that. Okay.

And we collected DNA samples from lots of people, but we submitted some evidence from the case and got the DNA hit. The reason those bucklesplugs we collected was we were trying to find the person responsible. Okay. We talked about, had you ever been in the backyard, have you ever been in the house, all those things? And you said you hadn't. Not a lot of them were there, no.

Okay. Well, I don't believe you. Tell me, I don't believe you. I don't think you're telling the whole truth, okay? Your DNA is in the backyard the morning that she was discovered missing. Anthony Palmer described himself as a neighborly fellow, someone willing to help out anyone who needed it. Many neighbors who lived on jet drive in the years following Kristen's disappearance stated that he was always able to lend a helping hand. Looking on the surface, he seemed like an ideal neighbor to have, but as it turns out,

Anthony had a bit of a rap sheet. Get this. In 1979, Anthony was accused of breaking into his girlfriend's house through a window and molesting her eight-year-old sister. The mother woke up and called police, and even though Anthony had been accused due to his truck being parked near the house, he was never convicted. Regardless of this being an accusation, the circumstances were eerily similar to what happened to Kirsten. In 1982, he broke into a home and assaulted a woman.

According to the victim's statement, she believed he was going to rape and kill her. Anthony was convicted on that charge and served two years in prison. Another woman claimed when she was a mere 17 years old, she was drugged by Anthony, who had done in her words strange and weird things to her. Back in the interrogation room, Anthony continues to deny any knowledge of what happened the night of Kristen's disappearance. He gives no viable explanation as to why his blood would be there. One of the investigators gets up and leaves the room visibly frustrated. The other investigator continues to question Anthony, but with a different approach. What happened? What happened? I think it's one of those things, honey, where you're scared, and I think there's some

verses that says, you know, at some point everything is numb. And I truly believe that. And on these days that you're going to have to come and realize that. And I don't know. I think that your best bet is simply to tell the truth. I've been telling the truth. Well, unfortunately, what you're telling me doesn't align with any of the physical evidence that we have. And unless there's a huge conspiracy, the FBI and the OSBI are officers from 17 years ago to frame you, we have to explain this. Eventually, the detective who left the room comes back in, holding a report from the OSBI. This is our OSBI result.

Now, disrespect, I get the impression maybe you don't believe me. So I want to just bring you the copy, direct the OSBI, and we've highlighted it here for you. Okay? I just want you to understand that this isn't a blow-up coming. The OSBI report showed that if the blood found at the crime scene had belonged to anyone other than Anthony, the odds were 1 and 293 sectillion. That's 293 with 36 zeros after it. Considering the planet Earth has only 7 and a half billion people on it, you would need roughly 4 Earths for these kind of odds. In order to find 2 matching suspects, you'd need about 8 planet Earths. these kind of odds. In order to find two matching suspects,

you'd need about eight planet Earths. There was no question this was a 100% match. You remember me, I should. I've been working on this case for two years. Here, look at me. I've been working on this for two years. I've got a little girl that's about her age, her show of age at the time.

In this case, this case is taken over me. It's all I think about. And I told you earlier on, all the cases I work is crimes against shoulder cases. So my whole life, I go home, I have kids. I kind of work, I deal with kids. And you seem like, like you said in our past, you know, conversations we've had all you do, you care about kids. You take care of the neighborhood kids and you got a heart attack on me. Yeah, and that's what we're trying to figure out.

Only is how is your blood, your DNA, you know, and you were there when I took your sample from you, right? We had an unknown male profile DNA on her panties and on her windowsill. All I'm concerned about is where she at. I'm sure where she at helped me find her. The end of that clip may have been hard to hear. When Detective Miller explains to Anthony that his main concern is finding Kirsten, Anthony says, I'm sure, while turning away from the detective and pushing the OSPI report away from him. After a moment, Major David Huff enters the room. And the only thing that I'm taking right now is, yeah, I'm being set up because we want to close this case. Anthony lights up a cigarette. Even with the evidence presented to him, he continues to deny any involvement in Kirsten's disappearance.

Major Huff has to explain to Anthony a bit of the science behind the DNA results. Well, I understand what you're saying. I'm going to be honest with you when this first stuff the stuff first came out The DNA of I want to understand how it works because not everybody does this so it wouldn't be Uncommon for you not to know The normal person that doesn't do place for it doesn't know The DNA that we got off of these pennies that was taken all the way back when it happened. And it was put into a container where we could keep it indefinitely.

It's been there. Since FBI tickets, when they were helping us, it was there. Okay. We had what was called an unknown DNA sample. We knew that it was human DNA. We can tell that That's right over here. Right? We knew that it was human DNA, okay? And we knew it was human DNA from a male We can know that we didn't know the name attached to it. We didn't know who's DNA that was. When the FBI and Detective Miller went out and got those swabs, they got them from a bunch of people. All right, you being one of them. Then it was tested against a sample that was taken off the window sill. And often the pannings, which by the way, I don't know if they told you this or not,

but also has Kerstin's DNA on it. Because little kids, they could do a little PP in their pants and skin marks. So her DNA is on it, your DNA is on it, and it's also on the window seat. That was all done way back when this all happened. It's just now that the DNA results have come back. And I don't know if I told you this, you seem like an intelligent man, so to help you comprehend, we're talking about what we say we know this to be a fat The number six trillion what this is saying If you take a one and you put 21 zeros behind it It's yours anybody in the world any is going to say that that is your blood. As human beings, we sometimes go through traumatic events in our lives.

After we experience those, some people are able to compartmentalize. Major Huff pressed Anthony to see if this was the case with Kirsten. This is what it rules down to. This much time can pass, and if something horrible happens in your life that you don't want to remember, you can put it in a little box and put it out here and try to keep it away from you. But it happens. I've had to put horrible things that have happen in my life and put it in a little box out here and just hope that it goes away and that pray that one day it doesn't come out

because I've seen some some terrible things. And here's what I think and you know what I think may not matter to you, but it's from the heart. I think that you're not an evil person. I don't think you're an evil person. I've heard about your work history. You know, I know all that stuff. I know you're a dependable person, a hard working man. I think on this one night, this one time, for whatever reason, that some demon inside you, you made a mistake.

The fact is there. Here's what, how we looked at it. You know, I'm about to retire. You know, I know he told you he's got a young daughter. We want to know where this baby's at. We want to know where she's at. I can't help you. With Anthony denying any involvement, the investigators grow weary.

They begin to question him, asking him about why he lied to his wife regarding a polygraph test, trying to wear him down in order to get him to slip up. Can I ask you something? Sure. Why did you tell your wife that the FBI even had polygraph in the past? She just told us that he said that. No, I told her that. Y'all had gave me a ball of gas, but it was because we formed something altogether different for the Tristidio. I got two ball of gas that day. That's what you think she is most interested in, probably.

Anthony tries to explain to investigators that the only reason these conversations ever come up is typically when it's the anniversary of Kirsten's disappearance. You have to know that the FBI was in my house. They shook my house down. The rods should all be there. And the only time this comes up is when she asks about it. And it's usually at the anniversary because need to pay for people or television people are knocking on the door. Are you still living here? Do you know blah blah blah? And that's it. Turning up the heat

and the interrogation the investigators bring up one of Anthony's prior incidents. I've done research on, you know, what happened when you were the monsters stuff like that? I've a lesson to part of the interview here this morning and maybe you blacked out and did it that you want to wear a bit something? You said you said something about you don't thank you sleepwalk. No. I'm just going through scenarios. Okay. I mean, that's got to be a sarcastic. Take a moment, Brian, to get point. I mean, from what we've read from the report that happened there in Walters, that was a pretty horrific deal that happened. And it kind of shows that it's somebody that can lose it.

For whatever kid that was drunk, and I still pay for that, that'll never go away. Anthony avoids eye contact with the investigators. They give him a final opportunity to clear his conscience. But what it comes down to is this, you know, we've had a lot of people in this room and interviewed a lot of people about stuff, similar to this, you know, we've had a lot of people in this room and interviewed a lot of people about stuff similar to this, unfortunately. And there's two kinds of people we deal with. There's some people that, when we prevent, present the evidence that we've got, and they

know that they've been found out, they stand up and take some type of responsibility and move on or they deny it and To me that's the folks that are really evil and I just didn't get the feeling that that was you Instead Anthony thinks this is awesome kind of joke that's being played on him. I can't explain it And I'm still sitting here thinking April's full y'all come up with April 4th joke that's being played on him. The investigators then ask Anthony to smoke another cigarette while they exit the room and take a break. Anthony lights up and sits in silence. After a few moments, the investigators return back

into the room. This time detective Miller is holding a folder. Ask you again, or she at? Or can't you? Okay, I want you to understand too. And you probably know this. You're not leaving this room down. I don't want you to understand too. And you probably know this. You're not leaving this room down. You understand that.

And you understand that it's probably going to be quite a while that you're going to spend in jail. Just because we don't have a body doesn't mean that it's not going to be able to charge you with anything. I've got enough evidence against you. So, tell me, there's some arrest for it warrant in that little sign by a judge and it's for murder and judges don't sign that unless there's probable cause and to be fair to you okay to be fair to you.

You're not going where you're you're being charged with murder and here's the deal I want to remember right now we're interviewing everyone, your family members. You probably hear it in the next turn. We're already at your house. We will have backhows, ground penetrating sonar, cadaver dogs, the whole line yards. No, who's left about that yesterday?

What's so funny about that? Did you ever go in our backyard? I got dogs and cats and that's never worth that much. I don't want to have one. It was not about that. It was wasn't something we wanted to do. I quit a very young or animals young. No, no, no.

We're not going to find. And this is your opportunity because I mean, you ain't going to find a person that feeling of that going. With every opportunity, Anthony had been given to come clean on the location of Curson's body, he had denied any involvement. In the beginning of the interrogation, Anthony described himself as a neighbor willing to help anyone. Someone who knew most of the people living on the street and the children who would play

outside. help anyone. Someone who knew most of the people living on the street and the children who would play outside, but when it came to the Hatfield family, he somehow didn't know them, even though they lived just two houses down. Any excuse, any possible scenario Anthony could hypothesize wouldn't be enough. Well, what we're going to do is we're going to leave it with, you're that person has no remorse, and that's the way the report's going to read because what I'm seeing from you is you can tell us if we ever find her and I do you can tell us just to get up one turn around for me but you can't find me back

all right I'm not sure. Neighbors of Anthony were stunned to hear that he had been arrested. After Anthony had been booked into jail, investigators worked to look for the remains of the missing girl. Kent Bueller, an archaeologist and professor at the University of Oklahoma, assisted in the search of Anthony Palmer's property. I've done over 50 cases. I think we've recovered in the neighborhood

of a little over 40 people. In this particular case, we are looking for an eight-year-old child and the person that makes for a very very small person. So the more time that goes by the more difficult it is. We're in urban environment in a backyard. We have utility lines running all over the place. People dig all all kinds of holes in their backyard for all kinds of reasons. After working the property for two weeks, the search yielded no results. Kristen Hatfield's remains have never been found, due to the severity and nature of the

crime. At the knees bond was denied. In November of 2015, he attempted suicide in his jail cell prior to a preliminary hearing. When Anthony finally did have his preliminary hearing, he waived his right to hear from witnesses the state had against him. His trial date was set for October 9th, 2017. The prosecution began opening statements. They alleged that Anthony had previous crimes that had been sexually motivated.

It is also believed that Anthony remained in the home through the years in order to conceal any evidence that could link him to the crime. The first witness called to the stand claimed, during the 80s, when she was only 7 years old, Anthony had touched her inappropriately. The second witness called, was the woman whose home was broken into by Anthony, which led to his incarceration in 1982. The defense, however, argued the claims of kidnapping and murder held no weight.

Anthony's defense told the jurors that both witnesses had nothing to do with what happened to Kirsten. They called the investigation far flung, urging the jury to question the reliability of the evidence. Jurors found Anthony palm a guilty of the charges of felony kidnapping and first degree murder. District Attorney Scott Roland held a short press conference after the conviction. I don't know that you could ever say that you feel good in a case like this. We feel satisfied.

We feel like the family has finally gotten justice after two decades of delay. It's a precious little value I suspect to the family who will never have this precious girl again, but at least they have some legal finality. At least Anthony Palma has had his day of reckoning and he has had to answer for this terrible terrible crime. Defense tried their best to cast some doubt on whether or not Kirsten really was dead, but the jury gets this and the sad, awful truth is she's been gone 20 years. She disappeared wearing only a t-shirt and panties, and a short time after that her panties

were ripped from her carrying Tony Palm's blood. She isn't coming back. She's dead. Tony Palm murdered her and the fact that he was able to hide her body doesn't lessen that crime and the jury saw right through that. Jury's recommended life without the possibility of parole. Formal sentencing is set in about six weeks, and we're going to ask the judge to impose every second of that.

And the judge didn't pose that sentence. Afterwards, Kirsten's family gave a statement to the press. I actually had come to a position of forgiveness about over eight years ago with a nameless face of the suspector, So we were already in a position of forgiveness at the time of his arrest. Obviously really good, resolute, thankful, absolutely thankful. Faith, Kristen's younger sister who was in the room the night she went missing, also made a statement to the

press. I just hope that in the isolation and where he's at right now and maybe even his love for his own family and daughter that he will focus on that love for his daughter and realize that we have that for my sister and I hope that that will bring him to a place of telling us so we can play her to rest. There's no way of knowing when a monster will show themselves. Oftentimes, they can hide behind their facade for years, or even decades. Sometimes, it's a stranger. Sometimes, it's the neighbor two doors down.

According to FBI statistics, from 1993 to 2010, victims of violent crime often knew who their attacker was, compared to attacks by strangers. Sometimes you don't need a body. Sometimes all you need to put a monster away forever is a little common sense. you