Sword and Scale - Episode 155

Episode Date: February 16, 2020

We’re back with the riveting conclusion to the tale of Ezra McCandless and her claims of repeated sexual victimization. To understand the many facets of this case, you absolutely must go back and listen to part 1 before you listen to this episode.We ended part 1 with some final details about Ezra’s love triangle with Jason Mengel and Alex Woodworth, and all of her many rape allegations against the men in her life, but we still don’t know what happened to Alex on March 22, 2018. Ezra is the only person who can help the police locate him, and her missing car.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Sort and scale contains adult themes and violence and is not intended for all audiences Listener discretion is advised We can't even know what happened okay, we need to know the truth we need to know what truly happened okay Okay, I know it's gonna be painful and I know it's gonna be hard But we got it no one. So can you please tell us? Hello and welcome to season 7 episode 155 of Sword and Scale, we began to delve into the madness that is, or was, the life of Ezra McCannless, aka Monica Carlin. As we've already stated in the previous episode, the lines between fact and an over-imaginative

fiction in this case are as blurry as the lines of gender appear to be within Ezra's own psyche. So we'll have to leave it up to you to decide what you believe and don't believe and form your own educated opinion. When we last left you, Ezra was detailing her long history of victimhood in the form of multiple alleged sexual assaults by multiple alleged perpetrators, some of which were in her intimate circle. We pick up the story now with her police interrogation.

On Thursday, March 22, 2018, after being picked up bloody and covered in mud, after her ex-lover Alex's body has just been found. As for this is Brad, he's from Duncone. So again, thank you. They shut the door privacy. Just like every time we talk, if you want wanna be done talking, just let us know. I know you're here at the M patient behavioral health. You're in a locked facility for safety, for the kids, you're the health out.

We both think you need, but that door, it's not locked. We'll end it, we'll walk y'all, we'll get you a stamp, then get you back to where you need to go, okay? I'm like, it's a physical bread, he's from Bunkoany. He's here as well to try to figure out what in the world happened. You know, yesterday we talked a lot about everything that happened on Thursday, because today's Saturday. And I mean, I just, can we go over Thursday again just to see if we can figure out, okay, so let's start with Thursday again of all what happened.

Ezra was still complaining of a fogginess in her memory, stating that she remembered only so much, and then all of a sudden remembers being at the hospital. That was the extent of what she could recall. Investigating officers took her back through the day hoping it would spark some recollection. As her woke up that Thursday morning, she had been staying at her adoptive father's place at the time. I guess things hadn't worked out that great with Jason. She took care of her dad's cat and had a few other things on her to-do list.

During the course of the day, she would see both of her lovers under the guise of returning belongings and picking up some of her things. And then I drove Joe Claire. And I get to Racy's and I see Jason's there and Max one of my close friends. Okay. What happened, son? I say Jason would briefly say hi to him, but that Max says that he has, I had told him I have the painting for him that I've painted. And he got really excited. So we went to his house to go and exchange paintings because he gave me two paintings. Okay. She then told investigators she planned to return some things to Alex.

All right. So he said you were bringing stuff back. What kind of stuff were you bringing? to return some things to Alex. I didn't need it. Okay, and a bookmark? It was like a book, because he gave me a lot of like small like bookmarks and stuff like that. Who did Alex? So you're giving him the bookmarks back? Yeah. Okay, how many bookmarks do you think you brought back? I think it was just one.

Okay. So she was returning a heating pad and one singular bookmark. Okay, so you're giving him the bookmarks back? Yeah. Okay, how many bookmarks do you think you brought back? I think it was just one. Okay. So she was returning a heating pad and one singular bookmark.

Okay, so she was returning a heating pad and one singular bookmark. Okay, so she was returning a heating pad and one singular bookmark. Okay, so she was returning a heating pad and one singular bookmark. Okay, so she was returning a heating pad and one singular bookmark. Okay, so she was returning a heating pad and one singular bookmark. Okay, so she was returning a? I think it was just one. Okay. So she was returning a heating pad and one singular bookmark. I don't know for sure, but these sound like less valuable things you would really care about. And more like things you use as an excuse to see your ex again. And then after his house, we go back to racies to drop him off and stuff. And I looked for Jason a little bit, but he'd ready left.

Okay. To go... he had to do laundry that day. Well, okay. So we probably went to co-finishes laundry. Okay. And then after that, I would directly over to Alex's house. Okay, what do Alex's house? What time do you think you want to Alex's house?

I'm not really sure, because I left my dad's house around 10 10 so it probably takes like 45 minutes to get to a clearing stuff so it might be around 11 or something. 11? So about 11 o'clock you got to his house then? Yeah. Was he home when you got there? Yeah. So how did you get over there? I drove my car and parked it and I left running because I didn't get to cut be in there long. Okay. And I just got this stuff from the pack of my car and I'm not only dark, but his roommate Dave answered. What happened then? Then Alex came down and they gave him this stuff he wanted to talk to both of his. Okay.

So where did the exchange of property take place at the house? I handed him his stuff and the porch. Okay. And then he wanted to talk and I want to talk a little bit too. So he went upstairs to go talk because it's where David's is rooms are right next door. So he'd go there to talk to him and he'd go up to his room. So you go there to talk to him and you go up to his room, the detective asks incredulously. And who's in that room when you guys talk? Just me and Alex, but Dan was next door. Okay.

And then so you're talking as room you mentioned something about your stuff. Was supposed to be there? Yeah. What do you mean by that? I had a yellow cup and like a blue hat and stuff that he had there. Okay. And he was just looking around for it and stuff. A yellow cap and a blue hat.

Clearly family heirlooms that she wanted back after their breakup. So you're in Alex's room talking. What were you talking about? I wanted to tell him like, you probably might have been questioned or gonna get questioned ahead so the boat, the stuff between the half-enching, mean, John, and things like that.

We were talking about that, and I was talking about my feelings about the situation and stuff like that. Then he was just talking about it too. Tell us more about the conversation, how are you feeling and how is he feeling? I was just feeling kind of like, just a little sad because talking about it makes me kind of sad. Talking about the incident with John? Yeah, I'm just kind of talking about it and stuff like that and talking about kind of like asking like if he would know who's writing my number and stuff on the walls at races, crude things, and I was like, do you have any idea or anything?

I'm just like wondering like, what's going on there? Because I was just confused like, would you know who's was doing it? Or like what's going on with that? What do you mean they're writing your number and crew things? I guess there's been a lot of talk about me at the coffee shop there and someone wrote my old number and the wall and the boys bathroom and wrote a really weird about it. What did they write? The F word and then me underneath. Okay. I was't very nice at all. Remember at this point Ezra has been carrying out sexual relations with three of the patrons to Racy's coffee shop, two of which she claimed sexually assaulted her.

Even though at other times she stated that all of these relationships were consensual. and stuff. So how did that go? It would seem for me it seemed like it was going pretty well, but it was mostly kind of quiet and it seemed really quiet, but I was just kind of like trying to say like, so I felt and stuff and I just wanted to know like how you felt and things like that. How did you feel about it? Um, but I just kind of was like expressing like how I felt like it wasn't all that right and how I've been writing about like the guilt of like in and't all that right. I've been writing about the guilt of like, and stuff like that, and how things fell out

between me and Jason a couple times and stuff like that. Okay, he said he didn't feel anxious, he didn't feel guilty or how did I make you feel when he said that? Just kind of refused. Like, I said, didn't you feel like, well, anxious when Jason helped you with your cut on your arm when you cut yourself and stuff like that? And he like, not really know. So I just kept trying to talk about

it and he was just sitting there just kind of like listening and stuff like that. She and Alex were having one of those conversations that hopefully gives both parties closure after the breakup. Of course, those conversations don't go very well if only one of the people involved wants to break up. Ezra was breaking off her relationships with both Alex and Jason that day. They continued talking up in Alex's room, and Ezra's car was still running on the street below when they heard a familiar phone ringtone coming from the porch. Okay, but you heard his phone ring somehow. Yeah Okay, and then he said you went downstairs and talked to him did both you and Alex go down? No, actually Jason walked upstairs to talk to us So don't mess the bin open or something. Okay. What was that conversation like?

Not so bad. Like Jason came up seriously, is it because everybody okay and stuff, but he gets really concerned about how life's because of when he treated him for his, like when he's tough, so he thought when I was talking about, like he helped you and stuff that he thought

I was saying let him help you. So he came up seriously, like everybody okay and stuff just wanted to get in and all that, How's it going? Okay. And then we both talked to him for a little bit and all they seemed was kind of like cautious. Like he thought Alex might be harming himself

or something. But Alex wasn't harming himself. Okay. So the chance him stuff to take care of it and whatnot. Part of it made me think, well, if she's been doing these journals for therapy, she's been talking a lot about a lot of intense feelings. She's been saying that her voice has been taken by these people and that she feels like no matter how much she tries to get her voice back, no one's listening or talking. Okay. Is she going to drop off these journal entries like, you know, mail maps or like something like super reckless because it's two parties that are not in any emotional or physical state to be around each other.

Okay. So and like the medic and me and like noticing these signs, we do like suicide and service prevention and stuff all the time. And I was like, I got a weird feeling. Yeah, I got a super weird, I just acted on impulse of that weird vibe. So, like over to location and sure shit, the car was there. Jason said that he waited across the road from Alex's house for a while. After discovering Ezra's car, idling in front of it. He stood across the street for close to half an hour. He said that he assumed Ezra's interaction with Alex would be quick.

She only had to give him a few things. So when he noticed she was inside the house for a long stretch of time, it became concerned. You're not going to start to shake, you're going to start getting like, oh shit, like, yeah, why is she still in there, like, what is happening right now? And when I approached, I heard, you know, there was arguing and stuff going on. So you could hear, I could hear, like, heated conversation, like, people like saying things and I was like, okay, okay, so I cracked open the door a little bit and yelled in, like, is anyone in here? Is everything okay? And then my phone attached message went off. I have a very distinct ringtone, and I could hear her say, let him help you.

And I freaked out because I thought, okay, when I know of the Alex situation and their relationship, she had said that, I mean, I bandaged him up once when he slid his wrist okay because he said if you don't leave him I'm I'm gonna kill myself what I mean leave him with the god about you okay and I ran upstairs and the door was slightly open uh-huh and I pushed it open and I said oh my god you guys scared the shit out and he's everyone okay I said you guys scared the fucking piss out of me this is not the right venue to be having any kind of conversation with which you guys have been through. Yeah. She's like, well, his roommate is here and he's awake and stuff, so I was like, you know, but still, like, you guys need to go someplace, probably.

You know, I can't lie to you about it. No idea. Like, he said that she just needed to talk about what he had done because she's like, I need to show him these things, it's like to move on. I need to talk to him about these things so I can move on because all of this is, and I was like, yeah, it's really helping it. You guys are talking. It is healthy, but this is not the right path. I said, you want me to stay in the building, and they said, you can stay at you one. I can also wait outside. Like, if that, you have a room full of books out here, a very educated man, you know,

kind of snicker, and I was like, you know, love you. He said, I know you love me, Jason. I'm here to protect all of you. And he said, he showed me his wrist and said, this is the day I realized how much you could love someone. I was like, yeah, because you were hurting me. Okay. He was a boy who were hurting me and I still care about you a little more than that. Because people make mistakes.

The drama between these people and the way they retell stories is magnificent, isn't it? You know I love you, man. I know you love me, man. The day I tried to kill myself is the day I realized how much you love me, man. I think the cop talking to Jason was feeling the same way. This heated conversation about their love for one another between two young men who shared the same girlfriend slash, boyfriend, caught the attention of the house janitor, who apparently was so concerned that

he called the police on this trio love fest. The cops showed up, questioned Jason about what was going on, and another officer went up to talk to Alex and Ezra, who assured everyone that everything was fine. They acted confused, befuddled even, as to why the police had even been called. But just a few hours later, Alex would be found dead, and Ezra would be barefoot at a stranger's house asking for help. So did you guys leave Alex's house shortly after the cops came and checked in on you guys? Yeah, because I talked to the officer and said I was hearing fine and stuff and he said everything seemed fine.

Okay, so then you left and what vehicle did you leave it? It's my car. Okay, and then who was driving? I was driving. Okay, and then Alex was in the passenger seat. Yeah. Okay, and then we'll have to. And then we were driving and I was talking about stuff

and he seemed a little upset about some things and then after that, I just kind of gets funky, like can we bring, like I just, After the cops left and Jason biked home, Alex and Ezra decided to drive off to some unknown location to continue their discussion. Alex's body was eventually found in the monomony area. In reference to O'Clayer, the final location of Ezra's car in Alex's body would have been about a 20-minute drive west outside the city. And remember driving a little bit down the road, but then things started to get really like, it started feeling more and more anxious being alone. And then it started getting really fuzzy from there. Let's try to talk through that fuzzy.

Okay. So she and Alex were driving away from the city, talking about her feelings and his feelings and her journal entries. And Ezra claims that she began to feel very nervous, a feeling of anxiety that seemed to be getting worse and worse. As you're driving, when do you stop? Like, in part, do you stop in parts someplace? I think I got out.

I'm not sure, I just want to get anxious. Like, I think I got out of the car. Okay. And whenever I get anxious, I don't like to drive or anything. So I like, I feel like I remember just sitting there and just being anxious. I mean, I don't really want to drive. Usually I try to have my friends drive.

And when I make this, I've had my ex-wife and kind of drove me around for almost a whole year because I couldn't do it. Okay. So then you think you parked and you get out and sit down? Yeah. Does Alex come sit by you? No, I don't pay so. Where was Alex at this time?

He wanted to help me out with driving instead. Okay. So I'm kind of confused there. Yeah. Trying to breathe through anxiety. Yeah. So is Alex driving you around at this time? When I got out of the car, the first, like, I got in the car and then I got out of the car and then I got back in. I was still feeling really, really anxious and just wanted to talk. Okay. So I asked, like, I don't really want to drive anymore. Can can drive me. So I asked him about that. So I remember being like, I know that you're not a driving

stuff, so I had him get in the driver's seat. So I could be like, give me some time and go somewhere. But I don't think I should drive. Sometimes I really can't drive. It all gets fuzzy. Yeah, right. So now she claims Alex was driving. She doesn't know where they're headed, and she's feeling even more anxious.

She says from there, she remembers walking around looking for a house to find help, and she ended up at Don Cipolls. Listen to all this interrogation audio. Under the assumption, Ezra is lying because she is. pronouns that weren't my pronouns. What do you mean? I used to go by more neutral pronouns in high school and more masculine pronouns and I talked whole briefly about it how I was kind of going through identity things. Okay. But now I go by her pronouns because that's how I feel comfortable. Okay. But he kept using the key pronouns because he preferred it. Okay. And he used to call me like, boy, a lot and stuff like that.

And I was just kind of like, I don't really identify that way anymore. Okay. Because like, I identify kind of feminine and stuff because in the past I just kind of was more masculine for kind of itself production. Okay. So this injury, so what happened, how did this get? Or were, I guess that it, the way it describes it, like I want your arms, something happened, what happened there? I remember, like, that's when my anxiety got really bad, is because I remember it just kind of being really uncomfortable

because I don't like it when people grab me. Okay. I remember just kind of like being grabbed and then it just kind of like the anxiety went crazy like completely through the roof the anxiety went up. Okay. And then sometimes when that happens it's just like everything goes black for a while. Okay. So where were you when you were grabbed?

I was in the car. Okay. And how did he grab you? Grab me by the yard right there. Okay, where was he? He was in the passenger. He was in no drivers. I was in the passenger. I don't know if I think we probably were parked. Okay. I think it was before we started driving again. Okay. And it was just because I remember it happening like being grabbed and just feeling hurt and anxious and then it just starts getting really really dark fuzzy for me. Just feeling so anxious. Okay. And so how does your arm get cut up? Alex, like, he grabbed it and then he kept calling me about being a boy and stuff like that, how frustrating it is.

And then he, like, threatened me. What do you mean he threatened you? He didn't say he was going to do something, but he grabbed me and started doing something. What do you mean he started doing something? He started, like, carving something in a firearm. Where is this underarm? This one. Can I see it by chance?

Yeah. If you can pull your sleeve up far enough, was it all bandaged up or no? Yeah, but I can move it. How deep is it? It's not too deep, but it's like edged into my arm. Okay. And it just made me really anxious and hurt, really bad.

Okay. And then after that, I just like, I just remember feeling like I was moving, like I was dizzy, and then I remember the car was moving again, and I was just panning. What do you mean you panic? Like, I just felt panic, like. Kind of like a small animal. I was kind of scared. And then it's just kind of like everything went away. Okay.

Goddard can scary. What did he use to carve that on you? I think he grabbed what was in the villa console. What was that? It's called Tiger Claws. Former sponsor Tiger Claw. They're not going to like that. Are they?

Tiger Claw. Like what exactly is a tiger? I've never heard of that. So. The little like claws come out. First like when you're running it has a wristband on it. Okay. And it's just a self-projection kind of like thing.

So if I'm picturing this it's almost like a brass knuckle type thing that you squeeze and then multiple claws come out. Yeah, it's a protection thing. I keep a couple of like protection self defense protection things in my mental console of my car. She apparently has an array of weapons on her console, but she still gets victimized by someone who's driving the car, console, but she still gets victimized by someone who's driving a car who has plenty of time to scroll the word boy on her arm with one of these weapons. She's not sure which one though because of the blurriness. keep one of my dads like hunting nives in there too just in case because I either am like attentive my charm concept like that so I always keep like my tiger paws I was trying to make sure one of my dad's hunting nives are in there just in case they ever need it or just in case they ever need it like cut some

rope or anything. Well that makes total sense and what kind of knife was this? Just kind of your typical hunting knife my it always gets us kids like a couple of them or he is as a couple of them because we're all under it. So anxious, then fuzzy. So again, temporary amnesia is something reserved for bad suspense movies. Real life just doesn't operate like that. Of course, you'd know that if you listened to more True Crime Podcasts, Desira. So, you think you know he was the hunting knife? Yeah, I think so. Okay, and where was he said when he was putting a caravan in your arm off?

Well, because I was in the passenger seat. Okay, so we grabbed this arm and held it. If you're sitting in the passenger seat or if I'm sitting in there, he grabs it like this, and it holds it, so basically your arm is just straight. He doesn't bend your shoulder, your arm back at all. Only slightly, but it holds, and that's why it faces the small right down. Okay, can we see that by chance?

Yeah. I mean, just kind of curious on how it looks, you know, because... Oh, yep, I see the scratch. Oh, yeah. So, just so I have this right, it's on your left arm, on top of the forearm. And he wrote it with the B is closest to your elbow joint, then the O, and then the Y with some scratches. Okay. There's scratches, don't you?

Some other scratches there as well. There's a lot more scratches than we like. Okay. You don't need to show us that. But we can talk about those. So you have scratches on your life, you're saying? Yeah, they just hurt really bad. Like, what are those found?

I don't know. I just remember looking down when I was at Mr. Cyples House. OK. I started getting really scared because they seen that there's blood right there. And that there's blood on this, like, but there's blood right here. OK.

And so which hand was Alex holding the knife in? Which hand was he holding your arm? I can't remember what the chain is just kind of like I can't even see his face or anything Do you know if he's right handed or what? Are you right handed? Yeah, as it was claiming that while Alex was driving or while he was in the driver's seat, he reached over and carved boy on her arm completely out of the blue. According to the story she'd given thus far, that event just doesn't fit into the timeline. What would have been his motive for doing this to her?

This is why it gets real shady, that she seems to remember every detail about her tiger claws and hunting knife and who was driving, and she can give absolutely no details regarding verifiable forensic facts such as how exactly Alex grabbed her with which hand, which hand wielded a weapon. You know, basic things like that. It's all just a fog. So then you go wherever and then you come on and go to Mr. Sipel Halls and he described it as covered in mud. How did you get covered in mud?

I don't know. And where were your shoes? I was wearing my boots. She knows damn well what happened to Alex. So you get to dance halls and you know down the strive that you guys have cut down you. He also had some blood on your face. How did that happen? I don't know how this happened but it hurts. So a little cut. It's a cut of some sort? There's a couple little cuts. We're trying to peel them right now, because I've been putting stuff on it. Okay.

Yeah, and my head hurt really bad right here. For some reason, I don't know why. Well, you say you're right here, where it's right here. And the back of the head, in this area. Okay. And so on the back of your head, below the point here, well, you got a point here, and so obviously, right in the back of your head, lower part of the back of your cell.

Yeah. Your head hurt, okay. And then I remember eating to the ass, but I wanted to think about your pictures and stuff. Okay, so we took the pictures. The sanders. Okay, and do you remember what you took pictures of? She took pictures of my face and my neck because I was marks on my neck. And then she took pictures of my hands and stuff and then she had to take pictures of this area.

Oh, and when you say this area is where your cups are down by your thighs and legs and the vaginal. The vaginal and region. OK. I just remember throwing up a lot, not last night, but the day I got to hospital, I just remember throwing up a lot. Why were you throwing up? I don't know. I just kept throwing up.

She had cuts to her jeans and her stockings underneath her jeans, as well as superficial cuts to her jeans and her stockings underneath her jeans, as well as superficial cuts to her inner thigh area. Her sweater was cut open diagonally, and her torso underneath the sweater had minor lacerations. She just couldn't explain how she got these cuts. The fog was taking over her memory. Investigators were no longer going to beat around the bush.

They were tightening Ezra's noose, pushing her into a corner, hoping this mysterious fog would lift and that she'd give them a straight answer. And they did a pretty good job. It didn't take long for Ezra to crack, as it had for many other cases we've covered with hours and hours of interrogation audio.

At this point, in the line of questioning, they hadn't yet let on that they had already found Ezra's car with Alex's dead body in the backseat. So we obviously went off and thought, not, okay, and we started with Don, and it was myself and a couple other judges, and then we ended up getting a hold of Don Colony and Brett here, and it was said, all right, where could she have come from? Because he described to me that yesterday, that he didn't, we walked straight down the road,

and then it was mud out of you, and not too far from Don's house, we found a mud road. Well, what do you think we found at the end of the motor road? But we followed the motor road and we saw your footprints What do you think we found at the end of the road? Ezra was it me and in my stuff? What's up? Was it my car or anything?

We did find your car. What happened back there Ezra? My car? I don't feel like remember. What happened back there, Ezra? In the car? I don't feel like I remember. Well, what do you remember? I don't know, I'm being really scared. I don't know a lot of pain. Okay. What happened to Alex? I got him off of me.

Okay, walk me through this. This is really painful. Well, we kind of need to know what happened. Okay, we need to know the truth. We need to know what happened. Okay, we need to know the truth. We need to know what truly happened. Okay, I know it's going to be painful and I know it's going to be hard, but we got to know something.

Please tell us. All right, want me to throw us out what happened? Will the truth please? When I got to the road, I was wanted to keep going down the road chance to have a seat to talk because I really like to keep going down the road, chance to grab a seat to talk, because I really like to talk in nature. And when he grabbed me, he grabbed me again, and he put me in the back of the car.

And he seemed really upset about the stuff, and he kept grabbing me, and started cutting my pants open, and stuff, and he didn't know what to do. And it was really scary, and then he started cutting my shirt off of me, and I didn't know else to do. And it was really scary. And then he started cutting my shirt off of me. And I didn't know what to do. I went to go make him stop. Because he had this arm. And I kept trying to grab him. And so he kept grabbing me and stuff. And then they finally got free.

And I finally got the knife away from him. And then he kept trying to grab me in the back of the car. So I just started to defend myself as fast as I could and just Just kept trying to attack me and then I go to do This is the same thing I've ever experienced in my life. You guys have never ever fought back over a whole life He said you were having a knife. Where were you cutting it? He said you were at the night, where were you cutting them? I was just going anywhere and everywhere I could. Just to get them off of me and get away from me.

And did the night actually make contact with them? Yes, good. And then you just kept grabbing me and grabbing me. So you kept grabbing me after you were standing on them? Okay, and then what happened? And then after that, she left the car and he was laying there and I didn't know what to do. Okay, so then why? And then this way I just waited and I was confused and scared and I was just like coming in and out of it.

Like you were going to get dark for a little bit and then I'd come out of it and I'd panic again and I'd run away and then I'd be dark again. Okay. And then I just started running. As Ramenschen's over and over again that she was in so much pain and she was so scared, she compares herself more than once to a small scared animal, obviously trying to paint a picture for investigators, wanting them to feel pity for her. What's most intriguing is that we know when she got to dawns, she was carrying on with

this victim act. The same act she was performing during the first couple of hours of questioning. Listen again to her hyperventilation and out of control crying in the dash cam footage from responding officers at Don's cypals house. Listen now with the understanding that Ezra is putting on a facade, she's fabricating her emotion. She pretends not to know her own name or where she lives. She pretends not to know where she came from or what happened to her, or the fact that one. I'm going to get a little bit of a fan.

Where did it go? This stabbing tape place. It took place in my car and then outside when I was on the ground. OK. All of it. You know where the car was then. Pardon? OK.

So you know who was driving at that point? I know. I know where my car actually. You know who drove you? So what happened there? You were saying that your car, where we found it, I didn't find my car anywhere actually. No, no, no see what was going on because it was stuck again and I was like, I don't know what to do about this car being stuck. Okay. So I was looking in my car for like maybe a board or anything,

but I need the tire to get traction. Okay. And then that's when everything started happening. Okay. Because in the back seat, I was looking for stuff and I was moving things out of the way, trying to find anything in my car. I was like, this is the right anxious of it. And then Alex came up for my knee,

and then he just started grabbing me. And how was he grabbing me? He grabbed me and I had to throw it. Okay. And then he pushed me down. What do you say, he pushed you down? Where did he push you down? In the car. Okay.

And then he was not talking to me. And he started trying things. It was really scary. Okay, so he was cutting things on. What was he cutting again? My pants. Okay, and then we'll have none of that. He cut my pants and I tried to grab it in my hand.

He's got it. Let's see the hand please. Okay. And then I was moving a lot. and I put my hand. Okay, let's see the hand please. Okay. And then I was moving a lot, and it kept my leg right here. Okay. And then I went on.

And then after that, I said, kind of wrestling with my hand off of me. I kept my arm wherever I could, but it kept the knife and then I just started. How did you get the knife from it? It grabbed it. It grabbed it from I'm really pulled. What did you grab the knife from it? I grabbed it. I grabbed it from I'm really pulled. What did you grab the blade or?

I grabbed the blade the one time not sure. A lot. So I checked grabbing the base of it. Okay. So once you have the knife in your hand, what happens? I'm just grabbing it. Grabbing me. Okay, where would always you grab it?

Grabbing me by the arm and then by like anywhere you just get grabbing me. Okay. So freaking out. I was just freaking out. I had her fist pointing towards me was the blade pointed out or the blade pointed down. Do you remember? I think it was pointed down. Okay.

So that didn't do you remember? Do you remember where you ended up stabbing them? I don't really fully know because there was anything in everywhere. Okay, anything in everywhere is where you're stabbing them. Did all this stabbing take place in the car or outside? More of it to please have said the car because he went on top of me again. He went on top of you again, the whole side. A lot of it took place in the car and then outside the car it came after me again.

Okay, he was on top of you. How did you end up getting it? When Ezra says she stabbed him anywhere and everywhere, that maybe one part she's not lying about, she brutally ripped the hunting knife gifted to her by her father through his clothing and skin. She pierced his scrotum with the blade, leaking blood all over the groin area of his khaki pants. The once tan fabric was almost entirely stained, a rusty red color, with large amounts of blood crusted around his brown leather belt. His brain and one

of his lungs were also slashed by the knife. Investigators called this case a rage killing, and saw it as anything but self-defense. A forensic pathologist stated that Alex's injuries were not immediately fatal. He suffered through the vicious stabbing, 16 punctures altogether, knowing all the while that the person he was so desperately in love with was killing him out in the middle of nowhere. Drone footage showed the scene of the crime and how desolate and lonely the location of the murder was.

Ezra told investigators that she blacked out after stabbing Alex, and when she woke up, she panicked and didn't know what to do. So she left Alex for dead, bleeding on his coat outside of the car How did you get back inside the car, Ezra? I don't do that. When I left and I ran, he was outside. Okay. When he was stabbed, where do you think you stabbed him? I think I stabbed him in the legs in the head and the chest and stuff. Okay. Did you cut his throat, like, slides your chest and throw it all?

I think so. I think I went to stab him and it exterminated him and the neck and stuff like that. And then I think I got him in the went to stab him and like stab him in the neck and stuff like that. And then I think I got him in the chest a few times and stuff, but I think I got him in the leg too. Just so we can walk through this. So you think you stabbed him in the back? I think so. Okay, and where else again? In the legs.

Like we're in the legs. So I think I stabbed him in the right leg. Right leg. Or the left leg. I don't know. Okay right leg. Right leg? Or the left leg. I don't know. Okay, so right one, right leg. The upper part of the leg, lower part, are we talking? Are we talking?

Are we talking? Right up the leg. So, right up the leg, right up the leg. Okay, it might have been how about stomach? I'll fix it. Okay, we'll just go. I think this might be the easiest. We'll start at our feet.

Do you stab them at our feet? No. How about in between his feet and his knee? No. Okay, so on either leg. Okay, then we'll go from his knee to his hips. I think I stand on the gel and tail of the leg and then stomach too. Okay, when did that happen?

When he was on top of me in the car. Okay, so you stand, how many times do you think you stand on the legs and gel and tail? I think once. Once, think once or once total or I think it's a gem twice in this area. Which again? The genital area and the stomach. Okay, so I think you stand the twice and the penis and testicle area and the stomach area. So that area is twice total. Okay, so now we'll give from the stomach to the chest.

Basically, let's go up to his like nipple line. What about standing in there? I think I got him in the stomach once. Okay, how about in the chest like where's hard and lungs and ribcage? Okay, so let's go up to the neck. I think I can stand him in a couple of hands. Okay. And did you end up slicing it, do you know? Like, or someone's bad to say it, that we've got like cutting across it at all? I think it got across it, because I came down really hard, trying to get the face away and stuff.

Okay. So I think it might have sliced bad or something. I remember just seeing a lot of blood being scared and confused, and so what to do. Okay. Okay, so the third of the car that ended up outside of it when you ran was he moving, it was he laying on the ground at that point telling us the living room. The living room.

So I think the point I've ever trying to get at here is when we found him, he was half in the car and half out. How would he get like that if he wasn't? I didn't check to see if he was, I thought he was dead or something, but I'd seen him on the ground, so that's why I started running. I was scared. So he was going on, but he wasn't moving or talking or anything. But I see him.

Again, for those of you who consume a lot of Netflix and other entertainment media, when you kill someone, it's not like it is in the movies. An attacker is unlikely to be able to keep coming after you, once you slit their throat, repeatedly stab them in the chest and then in the brain, and then especially, and trust me about this, ladies, especially in the balls. This isn't the walking dead. This isn't a Quentin Tarantino film. This is straight up outright brutal and vicious murder by a crazy person who seems to have

suddenly lost her shit. When the interrogating officer tried to make sense of why Alex allegedly attacked her, he inadvertently gave her a story to stick to. He asked Ezra if the assault was physically or sexually motivated, and you know how Ezra loves to claim sexual assault, so that's what she went with. In court, she later claimed that Alex was trying to rape her, and that he said something along the lines of, I need to have you one last time.

I deserve this. Yeah, that's how rapists talk, apparently, as if they're villain in some shitty movie. When she'd finished killing Alex, Ezra must not have known for sure whether he was dead when she ran from the crime scene. So hypothetically, even if she had killed him in self-defense, she allowed investigators to continue looking for him, even though she knew exactly where he was the entire time. If he had not yet passed away, she could have gotten him help,

but that was never the plan. How can you tell me this yesterday when we talked to Ezra? Because it's too scary. I know it's scary, but we needed the truth, right? The outsider could come and tell us the truth, so we know what happened. Couldn't have been so scary, and I can't get it out of my head. And we're sorry that you went through this. And it was just replaying, replaying, replaying, and we're going away.

Have you talked to any of the doctors about this? What happened? No. Okay, well, that's probably going to be a good place to talk. I think I dropped it when I was running. When you say dropped it, where do you think you dropped it? In the grass. There was evidence that Ezra staged the scene of the crime before she left. She grabbed Alex's cell phone and dropped it somewhere along the highway with the knife. There was almost a full hour and a half of unaccounted time between the point at which she and Alex arrived at the scene, and when

Ezra arrived at Don Cipoll's house. There was evidence that all of Ezra's wounds were self-inflicted, including the carving of the word boy on her arm, which she later admitted she did herself. After this incident, did you do anything to yourself? Did you hurt yourself in any way? I didn't hurt myself. You didn't? No, when I fell, I hurt my hand and I bit my tongue. Okay. And then the boy of carbon here are...

Okay. The part that throws me off on that is... If I'm sitting here, he's going to be carving it in. He is a written perfect, with a right hand person like this. If he would write it in, it would have been reversed, right? That is right, too smart, is she? If he's facing you and writes boy on your arm, when it be in reverse, facing him, duh. How did boy get put in your arm? He didn't do that to your dirty. You carved a boy into your arm. Is that right?

Okay. When did that happen? That happened when I was in the car. In the car with him. Or when I was in the car after I woke up this second time. So after you Stampt him and you came back into it as you put it because you blacked out. That's when you carved it this in Okay, I hope that cuts your legs when did those happen?

This happened before and Who did those? So he cut you here and he cut you on the legs you're saying but the boy was done by you why I I don't want any of it to happen. Okay. So I wrote it, so I have to remember what happened if you had a mom. What did you want to have another? I don't want it to happen.

I don't want anything to get hurt. Maybe it's a really bad about what happened. I just did it, so I better go ever have something to forget. Notice how she only audibly cries when talking about how she feels guilty. She has to tell them she feels guilty because she showed no emotion when answering questions about where she stabbed Alex and how many times. Exactly two weeks after the discovery of Alex would worth spotty, Ezra was formally charged with first degree intentional homicide. The prosecution knew that Ezra had planned the entire thing and had lured Alex, this man

who was obsessed with her, out to the middle of nowhere so that she could remove him from the complicated web that was her life. Ezra initially tried to plead not guilty by reason of mental disease or defect, but later retracted that play and just pled not guilty. Why her council thought it was a good idea, her to plead not guilty and take the stand in her own defense, is a mystery. She'd been caught in lie after lie, and the jury would not find her to be believable, or even likable. Her trial was a sensational broadcast watched by many. It began on October 15, 2019, and concluded on November 1. She was found guilty of first degree murder. Her set and sing hearing is set for this month,

February 2020. We'll keep an eye out for further details in this case. After the break, we'll hear from Officer Jason Stocker from the Dunn County Sheriff's Department, who participated in a large portion of this investigation, and we were able to speak to, to get his thoughts on what he thinks really happened, and who he thinks as a mechanist really is. Stay with us. ... We spoke with Officer Jason Stalker of Duncownie Sheriff's Department who told us a little bit about who Ezra really was. One of her close friends growing up, Julia Post was her name. This was actually interviewed a couple of different times, they both knew.

They sat in on an interview with her January 29th, quite a while after this incident. Mainly we were just trying to get some background information about Ezra, what her personality was like growing up, what kind of person she was, any recent events leading up to the incident that could have been read flags, things like that. Julie was actually with Ezra the night prior to the homicide. Ezra was at Julie's residence when she was making edits to these journals that she had written. And so we had asked Julio if Ezra shared any of her personal thoughts about these journals with her. She said that she really didn't, other than...

She said that Ezra seemed very, very tired, very quiet about it. Although she wrote it on paper, she didn't really want to talk about it. She just said that she seemed very calm and at least when she was writing these journals, you really said that she did proofread them. As her had always been a bit of a strange bird. Kind of the vibe that I got about her growing up through school was, you know, she had some friends and this is coming from a few different people, Julia Post being one of them that. She wasn't very being one of them that she wasn't

very outgoing in their respect that she made a lot of friends in that. She was very interested in art. And so spent a lot of time doing that. Yeah, she, Julia talked about how Ezra was definitely not an honest person and that she had told a lot of lies. Julia said she didn't, she didn't realize it until they had gotten older looking back on it and now she realized that Ezra lied a lot to her and so she jailed on to animosity towards Ezra or that she was quite angry that she considered Ezra a friend growing up and even to that day

and like I said looking back, she realized that Ezra did a lot of lying and was not happy about it. It seemed like Ezra was always looking for attention whether it was in a good way or a bad way. And so she would come up with these elaborate stories of being sexual intercourse or assaults that would get her attention or get people to feel sorry for, type thing. She talked about an in high school Ezra, a claim that she was pretty sexually active, claiming that she had sexual intercourse with one of the football players and but Julia looking back on it so that I have the doubt that that was true.

She was definitely attention started and so anything that any story that she can come up with to get attention she would to control with it. Yes, Ezra is obviously someone who craves attention and that common goal carries over to the reasons she may have planned and executed the murder of Alex Woodworth. The common theory here, and the one that the prosecution proclaimed is that Ezra's one true love was Jason Mangle. And let me tell you, it was pretty obvious when he walked into the courtroom to testify. Look it up, watch the footage, she blushes and giggles and looks at him with such undeniable admiration.

It's almost sickening. She knew that Alex had become attached to her in an unhealthy way due to their affair and she needed to get rid of him, to give Jason a reason to never fear that she made sheat with Alex again. She hoped that she could pull the whole thing off and claim that was rape and she was defending herself. So she could then fall back into Jason's loving arms, receiving attention and sympathy from him

for going through such a traumatic event. Remember when she immediately gave officers at Don Cipples House Jason's name when they were asking who they could call? Back when she couldn't even remember her own name. So in my opinion, I think that Ezra had made some mistakes and she knew it as far as treating on Jason. I think she had some deep feelings for Jason. And she didn't know how to go about fixing them. And I think he met with Alex with the intention of trying to get him to admit that

there was a total mistake. It was wrong. It just quickly went downhill. And I think he was willing to admit that. And he got angry. And somehow ended up in her killing a night. I don't know if that was her way of solving the problem or if it was one of those things where she became so unraged that he wouldn't admit that their relationship was a mistake that she took it that far. Believe it or not, some people in Ezra's hometown still believe she's innocent and acted entirely in self-defense. You gotta wonder about the future of the country sometimes.

Someone is currently running her Instagram account, dirt underscore fiend, and selling her artwork for her. A post on the page states, all art posted and titles, descriptions are straight from Ezra J. McAnlis themselves. Ezra is not running the account at this time, but is in constant communication. Maybe I'll buy a little something for the studio. Never mind, it also says, the proceeds will be used toward appeal, to take the essential steps necessary to be rehered in a higher court. Our goal is this ultimately resulting in a chance at a second life, freedom itself. The battle for

justice itself has only begun. We stand unflinchingly in the truth. In the truth, we will never rest on what we believe in. Justice in the face of adversity. Positiveism. Support a voice for change. Sounds like she's running for Congress too. Also, is anyone in this friend group ever taken a basic grammar class? The comment section of certain photos is speckled with comments saying things like, I love this woman, free her. We'll let you make up your own mind about this special, special person, Ezra McCannless,

or to be more accurate, Monica J. We here at Sword and Scale though, think the jury got this one just right. That does it for this special episode and the beginning of season 7, which we're very, very excited about. It's going to be a great, great year. If you love this show, tell a friend, write us a review on iTunes, Stitcher, or Pod Chaser. Check out our sister's show, Sword and Scale Rewind and Sword and Scale Daily. And subscribe to Plus. You'll get over 60 episodes right now, instant access of stories you've never heard in the

same Sword and Scale format you've grown to love. Just head on over to Swordenscale.com slash plus. Oh, and you'll get a bunch of extra stuff too, like store perks, tons of bonus content, up 320 kilobyte, high bandwidth feed. Trust me, lots of stuff over there. Just check it out, you'll see the different perk levels and what you get at each one.

Membership starts at just $5 a month and it goes a long way towards helping us stay afloat. For those of you already supporting, thank you very much. You keep the lights on here at IncongrooD Studios and let's just face it, you're better than everyone else, come on. We've got a lot of exciting plans coming your way in 2020 that we're very excited about. So stay tuned for that and until next time, keep your eyes and ears open. It's a crazy brave new world out there. So stay safe. Thank you.

you