Sword and Scale - Episode 158

Episode Date: March 26, 2020

Citizens of Bakersfield California were in for a crazy day on December 10, 2016. The public events of this day would result in a police chase, and two deaths, eventually a third.Manuel Vela was no stranger to dealing with the law, and resisting arrest almost every single time. Beating on his woman was not an unknown pastime for him. He spent his entire life in and out of juvenile homes and eventually prison, but his final crimes against his fiance would be beyond any act of violence he had committed before.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Sort and scale contains adult themes and violence and is not intended for all audiences Listener discretion is advised Phone calls I'm gonna kill you. I'm gonna kill you everything Hello and welcome to season 7, episode 158 of Sword and Scale, a show that reveals that the worst monsters are real. Well, this is the last episode before we go on our spring break, and we will be back relatively quickly on April 12th, just after let. So don't worry about it. We'll be back really soon If you're on plus though you could be getting an episode again Next week. That's right plus members get episodes weekly instead of biweekly So if you're on the fence head on over to sword and scale calm slash plus check out your options

It starts at just five bucks a month and that's the level you need to be at to get the plus episodes. You get all 65 of them starting next week will be episode 65. You'll get all 65 all at once available instantly. So hop on that while it's still available. There will be a point where we'll start to archive these and and not make them available anymore So you might want to jump on board now Just saying again five bucks a month It's cheap. It's a cup of coffee. Go get it for the rest of you

We hope you have a strong stomach because we're gonna leave you with a bang here for the last episode of the first quarter of 2020 I mean do I even have to do the trigger things anymore because you should know should know better the bang here for the last episode of the first quarter of 2020. I mean, do I even have to do the trigger things anymore? Because you should know, should know better. It's got some stuff about small children, let's say, a baby. So, you know, if you don't like that stuff, then don't listen to the show, like ever,

because that's all we talk about. All right, that's gonna do it. Here we go. We're gonna pop in. So, might wanna hit pause now is your last chance. Very, that's gonna do it. Here we go. We're gonna pop in. So might want to hit pause now is your last chance. Very, very last chance. Okay, here we go. Three, two, stop. You Bakersfield, California was a calm, winless day. Single reason someone might move to California is the disgustingly pleasant weather all year round because state taxes there are no joke. Is it worth the good weather?

Enough seem to think so to make real estate prices stupidly expensive. Baker's field is about a two-hour drive north of Los Angeles on a good California traffic day that is. This particular day was partly cloudy, about 65 to 70 degrees outside, and people were probably out Christmas shopping or driving home from work with their windows down and enjoying the beautiful weather. Then the serene, idyllic, peaceful day was abruptly The idyllic, peaceful day was abruptly interrupted. People driving through the town were suddenly startled by a car driving in the wrong direction headed straight toward them,

followed by a whack to their vehicles with a tire iron sticking out of the Rogue Cars window. Someone driving this car was smacking other vehicles with the tire iron as he drove past them. It was sudden madness. Much more shocking for the people of Bakersfield than the sight of the Maroon Hyundai Alontera speeding towards them, is what would happen next.

Discarding the Tyre Iron, the crazed driver would next pull something else out of the driver's side window. Something that, for those who saw it, would become an instant topic of conversation at their next social gathering. The kind of story you tell after adjusting your mood to an appropriate level of somber sobriety before uttering in a hushed voice, yeah, I was there. I saw it. This is 28-year-old Manuel Vila. He's speaking in a very detached way about his fiance, Katrina Rivera. He refers to her as this person, almost as if she was someone he didn't know. from ex-interest to real, to religion, to science, understand the avoidance of telepathy

and somewhat of a higher power, rest within us, as a team, with me and Katrina, we were. So, I understand, yes, that was in Cuba. She understood that she had to die. And she was okay with that? She said that it is. Still in the throes of what was probably his severe mental illness made worse by elicit drug use, Manuel Vila claims in the center view that in a partnership, a partnership

that sought to understand things on a higher level, he and 30-year-old Katrina Rivera had agreed that she needed to die. The obvious reality is that Katrina did not agree to this. She did not know that her fiance and the father of her child was going to kill her. To say the least, I was capable of a lot better. I could have went with this other option, but I just respected the plan, I'd already had the father so, the Holy Spirit within said, well, let's get an option. Leave it and go in a path of, well, define a father.

Vila claimed that his directives were handled to him directly by the holy father. He felt that if he were to leave Katrina, that he would be defying the father's wishes. The sad fact is that if he had left her, she would still be alive. For Katrina, ending the relationship herself was not an option. She cared about Manuel and wanted to help him. And that is where anyone can get themselves in loads of trouble in a situation like this. More often than not,

like this. More often than not, staying with someone like this, someone who is so far God in the hopes that you can change them or help them will lead you into nothing but a world of misery and frustration. Unfortunately for Katrina, the decision to try to fix Manuel would end in disaster. Family friend Nadina Scolante understood the surge Katrina had better than anyone else, having met Manuel herself while she worked at the Juvenile Detention Center that he found himself frequenting as a teen. When you really do, walk with Christ, you forgive, you truly forgive, and that's what she was doing. She served God. The morning she didn't come home, did they hear that he had threatened to kill her? We knew too late.

What Nadine says Katrina was trying to forgive Manuel, is something unforgivable. It's something no one in a romantic relationship should ever try to work through. Domestic violence. Professionals everywhere commonly recommend against seeking couples counseling for abusive relationships. In other words, it's not something two people can just work on together. It's something that can only be dealt with the abuser themselves, often only with professional mental health treatment. But Katrina was deeply religious and felt the need to help Manuel, according to friends and family, and we know that in abusive relationships, it's common for the victim to stay, or all sorts

of reasons. They may feel trapped because they fear for their safety if they try to leave, or because the abuser is so successfully manipulative that they're able to suck the victim back each and every time. Katrina chose to stick with Manuel on and off through jail time, restraining orders, and ongoing abuse, despite the fact that she already had two children of her own in the picture. Two children that she had the responsibility to protect above all else. Manuel was not the kind of guy you want to settle down and have more kids with.

His arrest records were numerous and showed just how deep the pattern of abuse ran. In 2008 he was arrested for stealing a vehicle and he subsequently resisted his arrest and got more charges tacked on. In September of 2009, he was arrested for drunk and disorderly conduct and false identification to officials. Not even one month later, he was arrested again for domestic battery and he served 53 days in jail. Again, in 2012, he was arrested for prowling on someone else's property without their consent. He served 32 days in jail. And a month later, he was arrested for resisting officers and medical staff when they found him drunk and acting disorderly again. Two days later,

he was arrested for battery yet again and served 24 days in jail. The revolving door of the criminal justice system never ceases to disappoint. In July of 2013, Manuel was arrested once more for domestic battery, willful cruelty to a child and false imprisonment. He spent another 90 days in jail after that one. A year later, in July of 2014, he was arrested for drunk and disorderly conduct. Again, one of Manuel's favorite activities. One month after that, in August of 2014, he was taken into custody for taking a vehicle without the owner's consent.

He was sentenced to two years and eight months in jail and served 246 days. Apparently, stealing a car is worth more prison time than beating the crap out of your girlfriend and abusing a child. Katrina filed a restraining order against him the same month he was arrested, but it expired one year later and was never renewed. After he got out, he was arrested in June of 2016 for inflicting corporal injury on his partner and violation of his post-release supervision. He went back to jail and served another 17 days. This instance of domestic abuse was just 6 months prior to Katrina's murder in December

of 2016. Is the story now getting boring for you? Listing offence after offence followed by slap on the wrist after slap on the wrist. One half measure after another when the legal system should have taken a full measure. It makes you wonder what the point of the criminal justice system is to begin with. criminal justice system is to begin with. Manuel was in and out of this system his entire life, and to top it off he was beginning to exhibit signs of burgeoning mental illness, paired with his substance abuse and already violent history.

It was a recipe for disaster. Manuel later admitted that he had devised a plan to kill Katrina while serving a prison sentence the prior year back in 2015, he stated after her murder that he told her this, point blank. I'm gonna kill you. Hey, everything. We would see post on his Facebook saying, I am God. I have the power of God. I can do anything. He was extremely receptive to wanting help.

Nobody helped. The behavior that friends and family began to notice was certainly concerning. But no one saw any need to have him forcibly admitted into a hospital, which is pretty surprising. One of Manuel's sisters has reportedly claimed that prior to the crime, he had been indeed diagnosed with schizophrenia, and his outward symptoms seem to support this diagnosis. During this interview with news reporters, Manuel was asked why he chose to attack and murder

Katrina. Because as a father who I am, I'm facing these scenes as an antichrist, regardless of any nature of a humankind coming contact with the in our higher being. Accepted the fact that he was going to come and the kids didn't know a lot about it. They just had to act like we're just humans, and they say, that's fine. You know, mental illness rules rock on, you know? Many of the thoughts Manuel has vocalized,

includes spiritual and religious ideations, something common with patients of schizophrenia. There's almost always this weird attachment to hearing voices from God or thinking your God yourself if you have an extreme form of this disease. We spoke to Christa Baker, creator and administrator of the adult outpatient schizophrenia services at the John Hopkins

Schizophrenia Center in Baltimore, Maryland, to better understand the nature of this strange illness, and how it could have presented itself in the case of Manuel Vila. I have been here at Bayview for about 20 years. I actually started the entire outpatient Schizophrenia Services line. I used to be a provider for a long time.

I was 15 years. I was a therapist and now I'm virtually almost entirely an administrator. I am the manager for the entire outpatient program. So more than schizophrenia, TBI, Jerry, dual diagnosis, our intensive outpatient services. So a lot of stuff falls under me, but schizophrenia's been my sort of thing and my passion for 20 years. Because schizophrenia is such a complex and commonly misdiagnosed mental illness, we wanted to get some information about what the main symptoms are and how they can affect different people who suffer from the disorder. So schizophrenia is essentially a brain illness. The symptoms of schizophrenia are broken up into what's called positive and negative symptoms.

That's kind of an odd term that you don't necessarily even need to know. Schizophrenia specifically affects people's ability to sort of connect with reality. It also affects the way that they can interpret their senses. So if you think about it, there's hallucinations and delusions or two types of positive symptoms. And so hallucinations can occur in any modality of senses. So you can have auditory hallucinations, you can have visual hallucinations, gestatory, tactile, olfactory, the most common, however, are actually auditory hallucinations.

During Manuel Vila's interview, he mentions hearing the father or God give him directives. He claims to actually be hearing these directives, which would fall under the category of auditory hallucinations. Another component to hallucinations and positive symptoms is what's called delusions. Delusions are essentially fixed false beliefs that are inconsistent with a person's beliefs about the world, if you will. They're very idiosyncratic. You cannot talk a person out of a delusion generally. That's why they're called fixed false beliefs.

They believe it and they can find information in the world through day-to-day activities. They can find information, interpret that information erroneously, and make it fit the bill for that particular delusion. So an example would be if somebody thinks, and apparently is very common in schizophrenia, and so if somebody believes that they are being surveilled or watched by somebody, then if they see an article, they just happen to be, you know, sitting in with family members and on the news. There might be something about, you know, some company being hacked into. And so immediately, they can become fixated on that particular

piece of information and what it does is it reinforces that delusion that they're being surveilled. Remember our episode on targeted individuals? Yeah, that's pretty much what we're talking about here. If you want another really good example of someone procuring and cherry picking evidence to fit the bill of their delusional hypothesis, watch the documentary on flat earthers. It shows you what extreme hoops people will jump through to confirm their original absurd hypothesis. This one symptom alone does not mean someone is suffering from schizophrenia, but in combination with the other positive and negative symptoms Christa Baker talks about, there's a chance

that schizophrenia or schizoaffective disorder could be the culprit. Manuel was under the delusion that he was the anti-Christ, and that he and God had a mission they needed to carry out. That mission being a brutal murder. Do you think that you're possessed by the devil? Me? Yeah. I'm the Antichrist. A capable, taking a separate business of any God that ever said created was here to defy

love. Anything that I ever said that I was Adam from the first, you know, to understand a flesh of pleasure. It's taken to put it into a soul. You know, it's hiding out. It's first born, that's me. Yeah, it and out, if I were born as me, yeah, as me, the far bit specific as a. The other side to schizophrenia are what are called negative symptoms, and negative symptoms are really more of the withdrawal of things of a person. So apathy,

a motivation, a loja, they don't want to speak as much. At times, negative symptoms can be sort of the most sufferable symptom of schizophrenia. Essentially, it makes people not want to participate in their life. Families will often say, well, they don't do anything, they never come out of their room, they don't take care of themselves, they don't shower. They're not motivated to do activities of daily living. They're not, there's no get up and go, if you will. Lack of motivation, lack of speech, poverty of speech, they may speak, but they don't really say anything meaningful or they don't speak at all. These negative symptoms are what often causes schizophrenia to go grossly misdiagnosed, being

perceived as generalized anxiety or chronic depression. Because schizophrenia, unfortunately, is misdiagnosed often. You have to think about schizophrenia as a spectrum. There are no two people that have schizophrenia that their schizophrenia look the same. You could have somebody that would have more predominant positive symptoms and medicine tends to hit positive symptoms easier. And then you have people that have a more predominant sort of negative cluster of symptoms. And we do not really have medications that are phenomenal for treating negative symptoms. And so people can often sometimes confuse it for being a depressive disorder.

You can have depression with psychotic symptoms. So it wouldn't be a schizophrenia, it would be a mood disorder. depressive disorder, you can have depression with psychotic symptoms. So it wouldn't be a schizophrenia, it would be a mood disorder. And then you can have something like bipolar disorder and that there are some bipolar disorders that have a feature with psychosis present. So schizophrenia is often, often, often, often, missed diagnosed because it overlaps so, so significantly with all of these other disorders. Even worse, if and when these symptoms of apathy and withdrawal present themselves, they can sometimes push someone suffering from schizophrenia to abuse substances,

exacerbating the already existing mental illness into something much more dangerous. A perfectly healthy person who picks up a drug habit can also sometimes bring on symptoms of mental illness that they may not have otherwise presented themselves. We know that Manuel Vila had a drug problem, but we may never know whether his drug use was what catalyzed his disorder or whether he turned a drug to ease the symptoms and ended up making them much worse. That's the chicken or the egg question. So in first episode psychosis, I mean, so we're talking about people developing schizophrenia,

they are often using some type of a substance. The question remains, is do people who are developing a psychotic disorder turn to drugs? Or is it that people who are using drugs, the drugs sort of flip a lever within somebody, and then the psychotic symptoms appear because of that? We don't have an answer to that. We do know that people who have long-term chronic schizophrenia often times do resort to using drugs or alcohol, but people who have depression and other mental health issues and work stresses and life stresses and marital stress also turn to drugs and alcohol.

So we can't necessarily say that they go, they are 100% correlated, because they're correlated with lots of different things. So it's very hard to sort of untie those knots and to have a really good understanding of, is it the chicken or the egg? Bottom line is, don't do hard drugs. Just don't.

They're not gonna help you. They're not gonna help you in any possible conceivable way, even if you're completely healthy otherwise. As we've reiterated many, many, many times, drug abuse and mental illness, whether individually or any combination thereof, does not automatically mean you're going to become violent and commit awful crimes, but it's certainly a contributing factor, and the combination of the two has statistically shown to increase the combination of the two has statistically shown to Increase the likelihood of violence

It gets a freteia and any other mental health illness is something about it. If you think about it It's like a blanket super imposed upon Some a base, right? And so the person is the base and you can have people that are sweet Endering genuine nature good good can have people that are sweet, endearing, genuine, nature, good, good, natured people that can develop schizophrenia. And they oftentimes will still be people that are good, natured, endearing, and sweet, and have schizophrenia. And then you can have somebody who is not good natured and endearing, who is sociopathic or anti-social. And they have these traits and tendencies, and they've

always had them. They were eight years old kicking dogs and killing gerbils, and they unfortunately develop schizophrenia, and their schizophrenia is going to be totally different than somebody who had a pre-morbid personality that was lovely, endearing, sweet, and kind. We don't know exactly when Manuel Vila's mental health began to decline, but it's safe to assume that he leaned towards violent tendencies throughout his entire life. He was no angel. He was already far down the wrong path in life.

Drugs and a poor state of mental health probably compounded on his already existing negative habits and coping mechanisms and his habit of hitting women to eventually create the man or the thing that he became. Now if you're a virtue signalling tweeter, you'll probably take offense to me calling him a thing. After all, he is a human being. Okay, feel free to defend him. Hop on that Twitter and start tweeting away. Because your bath to find out exactly what he did. And if you want to defend that, best of luck with that. Music So, were you guys on drugs before you did this? No, not at all.

Was it something that you had planned for a long time to do? Well, it wasn't really something we planned out to do since our Jesus return. Back when he was hanging on those crosses, three crosses right here and back at the canyon here is what you're representing. Hello, as they did back in 2000, you know, before Christ and after Christ, whatever, after death, whatever they want to make it up right now, a little bit with two. What we haven't told you yet, what makes this story acutely despicable and utterly disgusting, is a small detail that clearly delineates the real victim from everyone else in this story. You see, everyone made choices, friends and family chose to look the other way

and not could help for Manuel. Manuel himself made the choice again and again to abuse drugs and alcohol despite incarceration after incarceration. He didn't seek out any help, either. Even Katrina, because of fear or dedication or spirituality, made the choice to stay with Manuel, or as long as she did. She paid for that choice, with her life. But there was one person in this story that didn't make any choices, that couldn't have made any choices. There was one person whose purity of innocence is

beyond blame, even by the most extreme twists of logic. You see, when Manuel strangled his fiancee on the front porch of their home that day, on December 8, 2016. She was 39 weeks pregnant with Manuel's baby boy. So what happened yesterday? How did this all start? 12, 8. That's when this all started. About how. He's per se in the up day. He can treat me better. out. Just perseying to the dead, get treating me better, put the baby cut out.

Did you cut the baby out of her? Yes, I did. So I had a goal and put it in effect of that night, as the highest of authority. They made it a process of just following through on whatever, whatever, however, however they proceeded. As one, to actually have her dead on the floor, put her in the back seat of the car, drive, have a some a long time, talk to the father, and then go on and proceed in.

And I was do what I chose as a human. I'm still as human as a man that's me along with everything else, any other nation of any other belief of a God, actually, here. So what was her thoughts when you were cutting? Was she aligned when you cut her hair? No, she didn't. No, she didn't.

And how did you do that? She was dead about for nine to seven, I think. I think I put her open at seven, 11. How did you do that? She was dead about for nine to seven I think I think I put her open at seven eleven How did you kill her? I Sock there and I took there The day of December 8th was spent arguing with Katrina about various silly little things and She eventually told him she wanted to end the relationship That she didn't want to be with him anymore.

The same evening, he smacked her on the chin, causing her to fall to the ground, and then he strangled her, for five full minutes to make sure she was dead. Five minutes is a long time to have your hands tightly wrapped around someone's throat. Watching the light leave their eyes. The color leave their face. Someone who is your life partner. Someone who is pregnant with your unborn child. one, who is pregnant with your unborn child. Manuel then put Katrina's dead pregnant body in the back of his alantra, punching and choking his fiancee was not unfamiliar for Manuel, but actually killing her. This was new.

He drove around for a while aimlessly before he pulled over and decided that it was time to violently retrieve his infant son from Katrina's already decomposing body. I didn't see where I was living. This was before. I took them out about seven hours prior. I took a kill to run on the eighth, the late night at 9-11, but is that front porch of our house in 22, 13 Fairfax? And she wanted me, but I'm the subject. Put her in the car with that, drove down, did whatever. And you know, had some time time to my father just be with it

So is it baby alive at first? No, you know kept a little hour six hours to myself just we're her dad in a back seat Saturday road somewhere Over on Conwood And just had a time reflect with me and my father had been here to do. And we just talk about how we're going to proceed and whatever we understand about how do we communicate. And then put into the plan and effect which route we took.

So then therefore we just went, okay, I got back in the car, drove to the mission over there on Edison Highway. Just relaxed right there, wait until it's caught up, prophecy, if you'll feel you. Everybody involved when a human nature, and then that's why I still feel a little, and that's why I cut her open.

What do you tell me, too? What do you mean, you tell me, too? The father, it's just the same one who's communicating with the Jesus Christ is going to use it. In Manuel's recollection, he put Katrina's dead body in the back of the car, drove around for a while and talked to God before stopping to cut the fully formed baby out of Katrina's abdomen. How did you do it?

What instructions did you get to fulfill the request from your father? How did you go through just telling you to go Friday and the baby? It looked right at her. How did I do it was as a child to keep a secret? What's going on about society? How they kept a secret from what Jesus was here? I'm not sure what quite your religion is. I don't care to ask anymore. But I respect the fact that Jesus Christ, as when he came back and rose in his beliefs

and put it in a book after that, for them to stop. He clearly has to organize speech. Disorganized speech could also be a symptom of something toxicology related. It's also a symptom of schizophrenia. And often when people have disorganized speech, surface level questions that have very brief answers,

such as, have you been there, did you go here? They can answer the question and it makes sense, right? Because they're just answering a very brief question. But when you ask them to talk about something that's more deep, then when they start to speak, that speech becomes more and more disorganized. And that is consistent with schizophrenia. I'll start over. How did you get your instructions and what instructions did you get?

All right. When I was seven, this was a pretty good fact, yeah. And through all that time, you hear these voices over and over again. Well, he said, go left and I had to go right. You know, he's an Asian spaceship or something. So you already had to learn every process of how he really had a communication, go right, and I go left. Got it.

So you did pretty much opposite of that. In the process of going through this, how did you kill your girlfriend and the baby and what instructions did you get in order to do that? Well, throughout that whole time of the same shut up before I die, because he threatened me. Is that right? We see. Yeah. So what were your emotions? Is that kind of why did you do it? How did you do it? He didn't know long I threatened me after I told me one time, go left. And I went right. You said, the finding, do what you do, and just

do it the right way. What was that way? What did you come up with? What was your way of doing this? Oh, he said just do it as you were alone in the garden. And did you use any instruments, tools? Did you use your hands? Yeah, he gave me a instructions of a razor blade

that he provided me in the garden with no one else was there An exacto knife or was it a utility knife? Just about a razor blade then and you did all of this with the razor blade and you did the C section with the razor blade. Yes And then the baby and once you cut the baby out, how did you kill the baby? I killed her Katrina rare right there How I strung with her How did you kill the baby? I killed her, Katrina rare right there. How? I strangled her. At the house?

Yes. And then hours later, you went to Edison, and then cut the baby up? Yes. Where on Edison did you cut the baby up? You said you went to Edison highway, right? In a garden? Was it actually in a garden? No, it was right on the side.

Well, side of the road? Yeah. About like, five-what? By the mission? By the home-and-suffer? I don't want to see you. No. Is it in the middle of the day yet, night? Well, I recorded it throughout the process. I was recording, yes.

You recorded it? Like with your cell phone? Yes. What'd you do with that recording? I hope, somewhere in the car. Why did you report it? For no particular reason to come up with something fast because he likes tricking me. He said he had to do something with this when he asked you that. So I got to just get total freestyle with whatever you're asking me. So yeah, that's what I did left it in the car. you're asking me, you said, yeah, that's what I did. Let it in the car." Though he has scattered thoughts when explaining what he did, Manuel is very clear about the fact that he himself cut his own baby out of his dead fiancé's belly with a box cutter.

He sliced her open and extracted the infant, who was alleged by a doctor to have been alive for some period of time outside the mother's body. He didn't feel sadness at the loss of his family. He didn't even feel remorse of any kind. Quite possibly, he didn't even understand the gravity of what he had done. What were your thoughts in that process? didn't even understand the gravity of what he had done. and you were doing what? No, I get out and just say, he lets me loose. He lets me out. It says, she running down, it just,

what am I doing? I'm trying to do like 20,000 things at once, but I'm focused on one thing. And I'm cutting, I'm cutting like that. But why is this whole, as a whole, is still in process of watching me, it's paranoia. Despite his confusion during the bulk of this interview, if we rewind to the beginning, it tells a different story for some reason. He seems to be able to put his thoughts together in a clear manner, and his first priority

is asking the interviewers about possible self-incrimination. Are you working with her? Yeah, I'm 17 years of local NBC station. Yeah. So we're just going to interview you about what happened and how you got here. So yesterday, what happened with your girlfriend? Excuse me. Would you be doing this live or actually? No, it's not like it's just reported. Documentary, what are you saying? We're doing it for the news.

For the news. No, for the news. For the news. For the interest of just that embassy. So you can get your side of the story what happened out? I don't know quite what you got on your side of the fence. We just work for the news station. No, about my side of what happened with the situation. Yeah, we just want to know your side. Because I don't know exactly if I could put myself in any trouble at all by seeing. We don't have to say anything that you feel is going to get you in trouble. You don't have to say anything that you feel

is going to get you in trouble. You don't have to answer all the questions. All right, I can answer some questions. That's exactly how you say it. Yeah, answer the questions. However you feel if you don't want to answer any of the questions, you don't have to. Oh, that's fine.

I understand. You can receive. He has what we call disorganized speech, meaning this sentence isn't. I've only watched two and a half minutes. But he has definitively, he has what we call disorganized speech, like the things aren't really connected, the things that he's saying. Like some of it initially, the first minute when he was talking about what the point of

the interview was, he seemed to understand it. And then as soon as, you know, she got to the part where did you cut the baby out, they're not logical responses to the questions. You know what I'm saying? And oftentimes, another one of those symptoms with schizophrenia is what's called disorganized speech. He didn't seem to understand. Did in fact ask if he was gonna get himself in trouble

and then said it was okay, he would answer some questions and go ahead and proceed. It was all logical. He answered the questions. He was goal directed in his speech. He seemed to understand. And then she asks, did you cut the baby out? And then he goes off on sort of these disorganized kind of comments that are unrelated to one another. And they're not even really related so much

to the sentence, but sort of related to the sentence. After making it clear that he had no remorse for killing his fiancee and infant son, he goes on to explain more about the plan that he thought he was chosen to carry out. How did you get her in the possession to do this? Did you guys agree to do this? Did she lay down on the bed somewhere? Talk to me about that.

And while Kielder at the house, we set this plan up about a couple, I was say, 100,000 years ago, but we said said Jesus Christ here before that. And then we're say we're here, hell's saying in this lie. Let's take it back from 2000 years ago. John, then John the Baptist, his soul and his here and every prophet from every generation from any bloodline that's ever been in association with that back in the Jerusalem. So was it your idea to clear this bloodline? Was the connect as a nation, yes, we're seeing the easy Christ.

Okay, now you mentioned something a minute ago that you are the anti Christ. But I see. Okay, tell me it's just by proxy, how were you appointed this? The fact of power passing in this whole as a understanding of how do we communicate with the five-day and the hardest spirit The fact that power rests in these whole as a understanding of how do we communicate with the five-day and the hardest spirit and the sun is in the between, the process of elimination. Why do the worst people in society always think God has chosen them to speak to?

Listen closely in the next clip for several instances where Manuel seems to be quietly whispering, perhaps conversing with what he may have thought was God's voice. So, God approved of what you did and he praised you for it? I absolutely hate this. Yes. Thank you. Now, are you hearing those voices at all now? I'll tell you a community with my father.

Yes, sir. Wes, absolutely. And I hear him. You're not hearing him. You're hearing. I'm hearing. Ask me how coming to you? Understood. So through you, each thing. Okay. Understood. Yes, he is. So along those same lines as paranoia, hyperreligiosity is how we refer to it. Hyperreligiosity, people become sort of overly focused on religious themes. I'm God, I'm, you know, I'm child of God. I had 500 children with God, or they become sort of focused on existential

sort of religious things. The problem with that is that hyperreligiosity is not simply just one feature of somebody who has this, has a schizophrenia illness. It is also a substantial feature in people who have bipolar disorder in mania. So just because somebody who are focused on religion doesn't necessarily mean that their diagnosis is actually schizophrenia because it very well could be a bipolar disorder, which is really a moved disorder. Gets a frendia is often more chronic and more debilitating than a moved disorder.

For Manuel Vila, this illness was not only debilitating, but in combination with a substance abuse, his brain function became so degraded and perverted from the state of a normal person's mind that he went on to do the unthinkable, as police caught up with him. When a witness called the police and reported seeing Manuel outside of an apartment complex, they quickly followed up on the siding, knowing that Katrina had last been seen with Manuel. Surely enough, police found his mar a laudtra outside of the building Manuel knew he was in trouble. He had Katrina's dead Decicrated body in his back seat

Her blood soaking into the cushioning and somewhere in the car was his infant son He for some reason thought it best to jump in his car and flee. The chase ensued through the town of Bakersfield, and then well-swirved all over the road, smashing into other cars intentionally to throw off the police. He stuck his arm out of the driver's side window and whacked passing cars with a tire iron as he sped in his own vehicle down the road driving in the wrong direction. Officers attempted to ram the car to stop him and succeeded in spinning his vehicle around, but even that didn't put an end to the chase.

Soon officers in pursuit noticed something strange sticking out of his driver's side window, replacing the formerly wielded tire iron. This thing was flesh-colored. They realized that the object he was dangling out of his driver's side window, was an infant, a newly born infant, that they presumed was the fetus that had been inside of the missing woman's body. This was Katrina and Manuel's fully formed healthy baby, and Manuel was dangling the infant out of the driver's side window while driving recklessly through Bakersfield. Officers in pursuit stopped ramming the Elantra as soon as they realized the baby's life

was in immediate danger, and instead resorted to laying down spike strips to attempt to stop the car. The California Highway Patrolman who was laying down the spike strip quickly became Manuel's target as he swirved to try to hit the officer with his car. Luckily, the edge of the spike strip caught Manuel's tires and finally ended the fast and loose car chase. The pursuit came to an end on Mount Vernon Avenue, which was fortunately near a medical center, and ironically close to the Kern County Mental Health Building, also known as the Mary Kay Shell Crisis Center. Manuel could have probably used those mental health crisis services before he decided to commit this horrible crime for the sake

of his almighty father god. As Manuel finally exited his alantra with the baby in his arms, he immediately began running from the cops, police and canine units ran toward him, and Manuel held up his infant son in defense against the officer and dog, he was using his innocent, helpless child as a human shield, a baby as a shield of protection against a dog trained to take people down. I talked with a witness said that they saw you with the baby in your arms. What's a baby in the car with you during this chase?

And then I is the whole complicity situation. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I got my guy with suit right here to share his support with me. Shouts out. I loved him. I loved him. I loved what door he did. He was to be a professional, you know.

So what's a baby in your arms and you get out of the car and you go up his street, down the street? It was real fun, actually. At the praise of my father all along, how are you? I'm great, glory to be to God, yes sir. It was actually pretty fun, amazing. Yeah. And why, so?

It's so fun. It was fun. Oh, yeah, I see it. The adrenaline rush? No, it's all at once. It's just like, how do I look? How do I bless you now? Hello, everybody.

We should know. So you were doing that for God to prove? Oh, absolutely. Is there still one in the run? And now, everybody has in between to mean that had none function about anything in my progress of my report, what I had to do with her?

Well, it's cool, I respect the manner, but hey, I felt just relaxed and relieved. Okay, do what you do. So I gave it to them, their turn, chasing me, I asked stupid, whatever you had to do with it. Officers yelled from Inuel to stop, and he threw his baby down into a gutter, discarding him like trash, so that he could run faster from the police. The canine and police officers tackled Manuel, kicking and yelling as he resisted a rest. Down the road a few dozen feet, a group of responders surrounded the tiny baby boy who had been flung to the ground by his father. They attempted CPR to resuscitate the newborn, whose name was to officially be Josiah, but

it was too late. He was pronounced dead at the hospital. His entrance into this world and his only experiences were not of love, but of extreme cruelty. He never got to experience a connection with his loving mother because she was already dead when Josea had been ripped from her body with a box cutter. There are many things that sort of come to mind. I don't know what his situation was.

I don't know if he were abusing drugs prior to this. But there are certain drugs like K2 spice that if a person went on a binge, they appear psychotic and it mimics schizophrenia and psychosis literally to the nth degree. And people show up in the emergency rooms that go on a binge for something like K2 or Spice and they appear psychotic and sometimes upwards of 36 hours go by before we can actually before they start to come off of this. And we can actually start to see that this was actually drug induced. The only way one would know that is by a tox screen that tests specifically for K2 or Spice.

Not everyone does. A random tox screen in the emergency room doesn't test for that. But it looks literally just like schizophrenia. The interview clips you've been hearing of Manuel Vila were recorded less than 36 hours after the crime was committed. He had a history of mental illness, schizophrenia in particular, but he also had a history of drug abuse and experimentation. It's unclear and unlikely that we will ever know whether this incident was caused by drug abuse, mental illness, or some combination of the two.

The other possibility is that, of course, Manuel was perfectly sane and a very good actor. But that's not just unlikely, it's ridiculous. You don't act this way, if you're perfectly sane, even under the influence. You just don't. I had to ask, what are you gonna do with this recording of me? We're gonna do a new story. We've been doing the stories since she was missing. So we're gonna do a new story with this. Oh, have you not? Well, the act of appreciating you coming down here,

taking the time, and acknowledging my mental illness, no praising worship to them, however they are, problem medication for whatever kind of illness, you know, with the brain race. Well, I don't know if it's this important or not as a situation ahead, killing a baby,

cause I've been killed a baby. I've brought it to the mind and I had some personal time with the little bird actually shit. I mean, my first born son, look at you, the lightning, you know. How old are you, Pat? Now, our dad will be in the back. I'm taking a relationship and relaxing,

and say, okay, situation at hand. You know, do whatever I have to do whether she me in her guess. Are you glad that this was all come to a conclusion? No. Tell me why. I'm based on a, and there's a lot of dishonor, which is recognition of who I am, with the realization of not caring about just saying, you're telling the truth but we still got played along and you're mentally ill. I don't know you."

About a month after his interview was conducted, as Manuel was being held in the Lerdo jail awaiting his next court date, he was found unresponsive in a cell during afternoon hours and was promptly pronounced dead. At the time he was not on suicide watch, and jail officials claimed that the death didn't seem suspicious, leading news sources to state that his death was a suicide. Christopher Baker, expert on schizophrenia, says that this could be another piece of evidence pointing toward Manuel having been on a drug binge during the murders. Suddenly suggesting that schizophrenia was not responsible. This guy clearly did something. He doesn't seem to have any remorse about it. He's talking about

his first question was, will I incriminate myself? but he doesn't really seem to care about incriminating himself. He's just sort of disorganizedly talking about his thoughts about what he did. I mean, so he doesn't really seem to be caring that much about the criminal justice system and is he getting himself in trouble, which would be concerning for schizophrenia, because he doesn't seem to understand, but also could be concerning of a tax ecology issue, like K2 or Spicer or something along those lines. He definitely seems sick. He definitely seems disorganized. He seems grandiose.

There are things here that are concerning for a real psychotic disorder, but also depending upon his level of meth use or other type drugs, this could be, he was in a meth and juice tays and he's coming down off of it and I'm totally speculating here, but I don't know the circumstances around the suicide, but let's, I would admit, if there were remorse, then either he was no longer psychotic and understood the depth of what he did, which without medication would be kind of odd, without an antipsychotic involved. People don't usually just remit psychosis symptoms don't usually just remit Or he was in some sort of drug-induced state and

And they can persist for days and then he came down off of it felt remorseful and ultimately Suicide it because of what he had done Unfortunately, we will never get to see an official talks report from Manuel Vila and all other documents from this crime have been withheld by Kern County, California to quote, protect the public from the gruesome details. End quote, we all need to be protected. After all, by this criminal justice system, which has done such a great job already, they wouldn't even let us have any police reports on this case. We as followers of True Crime know that plenty of awful things happen all over the world

every single day. And it's not the job of the government or law enforcement agencies to act as our parent, shielding us from the evils of the world, putting their hands over our eyes during the scary part of the movie. If we had been allowed access to the documents relating to this case, we could have more insight as to why this awful tragedy occurred. Was it really drugs or a combination of drugs and schizophrenia or is that just a convenient storyline? More importantly, we know that the gruesome details of what Manuel did are on full display within the interview he gave to news reporters. And that video is publicly available.

So what exactly are they shielding us from? Nadine Escalante, the woman who met Manuel back when she worked at the juvenile home he was in and out of, seems confused about what anyone could have done to help him prior to his final crime, as she spoke about him after his death. A perfect example of drugs and mental illness. They do not mix, and when you put those two together, it is a master plan of disaster. It's so scary to think we know somebody who's capable of such a thing. She has conflicting commentary about who she thought Manuel was as a person. Obviously

compartmentalizing her separate views of him prior to and after his crimes. Though how I met him was and under the best circumstances, he had a good heart. He knew he was in trouble. He knew this time it was really, really bad. Just three weeks before he murdered his fiancee and infant son, Nadine Escalante says that Manuel called her. She hadn't heard from him in a while, but she didn't pick up the phone. I say here and I think, what if that phone call would have changed what happened?

You know, he was a good boy and we don't know what happened. We don't know what happened. A perplexing statement provided that there were years and years of legal records showing exactly what kind of behavior Vila was prone to. Record after record showing a history of drug use of battery and other violent behavior. And yet, his family and friends just don't seem to know what went wrong. Does this cause you stress throughout this process of being arrested, killing your girlfriend, killing the baby? And talk to me about how you feel right now. Do you think that you've done exactly what you were told to do? Clear that up for me.

Well, we should feel the pretty magnificent creation, you might see my fact. Yes, it says, very cited for the next process of experience. As I would have imagined it, you were nothing will ever be the same, yes. One absolute truth, spoken by Manuel Vila, nothing will ever be the same. Things will never again be the same for Katrina Rivera's friends and family, and more importantly, her two living daughters who lost their mother in a horrendous, traumatic and unnecessary way. Nothing will ever be the same. That does it for this episode of Sword and Scale. We hope you've enjoyed it.

Until next time, stay safe. 1 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 nd 2 ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿� UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿� 1.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5- ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿ʻ ʻ‿� 1.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0-2.0- NETTRA I'm a little bit more than I thought, but I'm a little bit more than I thought, but I'm a little bit more than I thought, but I'm a little bit more than I thought, but I'm a little bit more than I thought, but I'm a little bit more than I thought, but I'm a little bit more than I thought, but I'm a little bit more than I thought, but I'm a little bit more than I thought, but I'm a little bit more than I thought, but I'm a little bit more than I thought, but I'm a little bit more than I thought, but I'm a little bit more than I thought, but I'm a little bit more than I thought, but I'm a little bit more than I thought, but I'm a little bit more than I thought, but I'm a little bit more than I thought, but I'm a little bit more than I thought, but I'm a little bit more than I thought, but I'm a little bit more than I thought, but I'm a little bit more than I thought, but I'm a little bit more than I thought, but I thought, but I'm a little bit more than I thought, but I'm a little bit more than I thought, but I thought, but I thought, but I thought, but I thought, but I thought, but I thought, but I thought, but I thought, but I thought, but I thought, but I thought, but I thought, but I thought, but I thought, but I thought, but I thought, but I thought, but I thought, but I thought, but I thought, but I thought, but I thought, but I thought, but I thought, but I thought, but I thought, but I thought, but I thought, but I thought, but I thought, but I thought, but, but I thought, but I thought, but I thought, but I thought, but I thought, but I thought, but I thought, but I thought, but I thought, but I thought, but I thought, but I thought, but I thought you