Sword and Scale - Episode 165

Episode Date: June 29, 2020

Freedom of speech and religion are two foundational parts of what this nation has to offer. They’re important to us and when we feel they’re being infringed upon, Americans speak up. What happens when freedom of religion directly causes harm to someone though? Are there limits to this freedom? Seth Welch found that there are hard limits. Not every state cracks down on how freedom of religion can put children in direct danger, but Michigan does.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Sword and Scale contains adult themes and violence and is not intended for all audiences Listener discretion is advised Her cheeks slipped Sunkin like they weren't when we put her to bed, I knew she was dead. Well, hello there. Welcome to season 7 episode 165 of Sword and Scale, a show that reveals the worst monsters. A real. So this pandemic scare we had a couple months ago got some of us around the world thinking what would happen if we had to sustain ourselves and our family for a while? What if society broke down and there was no food available?

What then? How the hell would we provide for our families? Well it seems like certain people have given this a lot more thought than others, pandemic or no pandemic. In fact, there's a whole reality show about it, called Doomsday Preppers. But we'll get into all of that in just a sec. Stay tuned. 2 Corinthians chapter 4 verse 18. As we look not to the things that are seen, but to the things that are unseen, for the things that are seen are temporary, but the things that are unseen are eternal.

Sounds deep, right? A man named Seth Welch posted this to his Facebook page titled, Seth Welch, A Mind Regenerated by Christ. Now, verses from the Bible are taken out of context all the time. They're often used to fit a narrative.

They are, in a lot of ways, intentionally vague and allow for anyone to interpret or reinterpret. Not just the Bible, but words in all religious books can be twisted and turned to support a myriad of different arguments, some better than others. This particular verse, however, is ironic. It's ironic for Seth to have picked it out of thousands of other verses to display proudly on his Facebook timeline for others to see. You see Seth and his wife Tatiana Fusari, both nearing 30 years old, were living out of rural Kent County, Michigan back in 2018. Their home was at the end of a long driveway, with a fence overgrown grass and shrubbery

shrouding the small box-like home. The couple seemed, based on Seth's post to social media, like they were good parents to their three children. They were bringing them up in a home with strong morals and guidelines, away from the hustle and bustle of Grand Rapids Michigan, surrounded by love and nature, and a couple of geese. You can always tell the religious ones, they almost always have geese. The truth, which would soon be revealed to the neighbors living along the same road as

the Welsh family, as well as the rest of the world, is that this seemingly loving home filled with the spirit of God and goodness was anything but. Well, good morning. I'm just going to dive right into it. As always, this is not a video you need to watch, it's just just something to listen to so you can follow along like is the radio or a podcast or something like that. This is Seth on a recorded livestream from his YouTube channel. Last night as I'm reading the scripture and as I dealt with a situation you know between

me and my wife as we continue building our relationship. I wouldn't say I have. God has a prophetic message for all of us. It's not some dream or vision or anything like that, you know. There's much emphasis placed on that kind of stuff in the false religious culture. This is straight out of the book. You can hear the confidence in his voice. He believes that his religion is the one true religion, the truth to end all truths. All of the others are simply false, misleading, and evil. Seth goes on to read Bible verses, speaking out about opening your mind and body up to hear the word of God,

by allowing you to believe the message is spoken by prophets and preachers. In this new generation that is coming up, don't ignore the messages that he is sending to you through the prophets and through the preachers of this day. It's not something to play around with. You don't get to pursue holiness after you die. You don't get to profess belief after you die and live your best life now. It doesn't work that way. This is the life you get.

This is the life you get to seek God. You don't get time after you die. This is it. You don't get time after you die. You get a chance to plead for forgiveness of your sins after your death and hope there's still space for you in heaven. Seth believes that your time on earth should be spent living a holy life. A life that proves you're a good person.

A life that will reserve you a spot in heaven. Better make those reservations early if you want to get a good table. So if you hear his voice, do not harden yourself against it. You know, the religions have purged the conscience, the importance of the conscience. That's how God will speak to you, that little voice in the back of your head. And just because it might say wicked things now, it doesn't mean it can't be realigned with what he has written in his word and creating you in new heart and in new spirit. We've said this before and we'll say it again. There's a fine line

between thinking, you're hearing God's voice through your conscience and having a legitimate mental illness. The way Seth is speaking though is somewhat uplifting. If your spiritual or religious in any way, it sounds positive and good intentioned at least. It sounds like he wants his listeners to have a better, holier life. The same path that he hoped his children would someday walk. Let me give you a distinct picture of the life the Welsh family lived. Good evening. This is Seth Welch, formerly of Black Acre farm products, now of stewards

of creation farm. Well, okay, just to dive right into it, why am I making this video? Well, here's the thing. Five years ago, my wife and I started a farm produce business. We had no idea where it was going to go or where it was going to take off. Well, there I go. I didn't even start at the beginning of the story. Six years ago, my wife and I, we moved here. I didn't move here to start a produce business. I moved here to honestly, to seek truth, and to learn about life from the ground up. The family bought a chunk of land and started an organic family farm, formerly titled

Black Acre Farm Products. In this video from the spring of 2018, Seth is describing why the business is undergoing a name change. The family farm would now be called Stewards of Creation Farm. How Memorable. The farm cultivated produce like tomatoes and berries, as well as raw honey from the bees they kept on the property. Seth and his wife Tatiana worked on the farm and enlisted the help of their

children, but they didn't have any employees or other workers tilling the fields or tending to the crops. This idea of farming produce for profit, however, was not the original reason the couple decided to purchase this piece of land. I also was in a place as a young man where I was very politically afraid. And so yes, I also got this farm as sort of a self-sufficiency type property, a prepper kind of arrangement. And I lived that way for a year or two and then time went on and we really had to start focusing on making money.

What exactly does he mean there by prepper arrangement? I'm sure you're starting to put two and two together by now. This guy is radically religious, scared of the government, scared of other people, and whatever he considers being worldly things. He's a Doomsday Prepper, a Doomsday Prepper with a YouTube channel who's trying to grow his own food, his own livestock, and live on the outskirts of society, a society that he fears. Nowadays there seem to be more and more people like this around. Seth and Tatiana had three children together in total. Mary was the youngest at 10 months old, with two other siblings aged 2 and 4. Photos on the Black Acre Farms Facebook page show at least one of the children helping

around the farm doing chores. Seth worked on the farm all day, and cared for his children while his wife worked at McDonald's. Let's think about this for a second. Those of you who have children have probably already come to the conclusion that caring for a decent-sized private farm by yourself and also taking care of three children all under the age of five is a job for more than just one person. How is he keeping track of all those kids while getting anything done? The family farm eventually evolved into a money-making operation

rather than just a personal backyard garden. With this expansion, you can imagine that the work increased for Seth. He was farming larger fields, more crops, and taking care of bees among other things. All the while, he was the only parent in the home much of the time. Seems like only a miracle would allow for this sort of arrangement. The farming though seemed pretty successful. The Welsh family made a name for themselves at the local farmers markets selling their homegrown produce.

And that is where most people know us from, is from our sales of what we wanted to be high quality produce to feed our community. We had a lot of loyal customers, we had a lot of supporters, and last year we were really pushing it, really getting big, really taking the big steps, and things kind of came crashing down around our ears to be quite frank with you. While sales started very well through the month of June by July things dropped off and kept dropping off quite frankly right off of a cliff One of our sales points one of our one of our point of sales went down 97% last year with many at 90

I'll just give you some straight numbers. We would often go to the Fulton Street Farmers market I'll just give you some straight numbers. We would often go to the Fulton Street Farmers market. Two years ago and on a Tuesday we could expect to make anywhere between 400 to 700 dollars. Last year Tatiana was happy if she came home with 50. That's how bad sales got. We had a lots of pro-empty promises and we expanded based on lots of hype and lots of talk with the hopes that it would be backed up. But it wasn't. And so we got left home in the back. These are people that are clearly not well versed in business administration. Let's do some basic math. Even on a good week, a really good week. Tatiana was bringing home $700. If she went to the farmer's market every single week

at that rate, she'd bring home $2,800 bucks a month. Let's assume she also worked at McDonald's full time, making minimum wage. In total, best case scenario, the family was bringing in $4,280 per month. Okay, not bad. During the sales plummet they experienced when Tatiana was bringing home $50 a week, at most, the family was lucky to bring in $1, eighty dollars a month. That's about twenty grand a year for a family of five. It's safe to say they were struggling. Now, here's where it begins to get spiritually. My wife and I are followers of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ said, you cannot serve two masters. You cannot serve God and money. Or you

shall love one and cling to the other. So as the farm business grew, I had to begin to take stock as I was pursuing my my newfound faith in Christ because I had actually been born again during this process of building the produce business. So I had to begin to refine my, refine the way I was doing things I had to look at my life and see what was the point of what was I doing and what was I doing and for why. This is obviously all stream of consciousness. Absolutely no planning went into Seth's video. There's not a lot of production value here. We don't know what Seth was like before his transformation into the born again Christian we hear on these clips, but it's clear that he went all the way in his journey to

extreme religiosity, and he wanted to share his knowledge and experiences with everyone he knew, and even those he didn't. I'm sure we've all stumbled across YouTube videos like this, of some whack job living out in a farm, talking about raising his own goats, not trusting the government or vaccines, and spouting his love of God. Seth was one of these people and he felt like he was such a beacon of knowledge to the world that he planned to hold classes at his family farm. Oh, I'd also like to say that the farm is also going to be used.

My plan is to use it as one, both a center for fellowship, for the people of God, and also as a learning center, wherein we will provide courses for people so that they can take. Here's a big thing, okay? When I was doing this for money, when I was serving man with my farm, I began to realize that there were like two ways I could go. You see, I could share all my knowledge that I was gaining to the detriment

probably of my profit, because if I share my secrets and my knowledge, then you can take it and you can go do your own thing with it. I mean, with such great knowledge being shared, who wouldn't want to take Seth's secrets and run off to start another unsuccessful farm and produce business? Totally makes sense. Guard that business plan with your life, Seth.

And I don't profit from that in any way. But in my heart, I say, nah, I gotta give it away for free, man. I can't hold on to this. Like, that's not the best good for man. That's not loving your neighbor. That's profiting off of their ignorance. And that's something I refuse to do. Well, unfortunately, that's how most businesses become and remain successful, giving people

things they don't have, and sharing with people information they don't possess for a fee. The most important point to make about this whole story is that there is absolutely nothing wrong with adhering to and framing your lifestyle around a particular religion or set of spiritual beliefs. Knock yourself out. If it makes you feel better, if it makes you a better person, by all means. We have freedoms here in this country. And practicing your chosen religion is one of them. In fact, some might argue that it's the whole reason this country started to begin with. Problems arise, however, when those beliefs begin to put other people in danger, particularly children.

This doesn't just apply to religion, either. Things like forcing your baby or toddler to adhere to a raw vegan diet, for example, is just fucking stupid and dangerous. or toddler to adhere to a raw vegan diet, for example, is just fucking stupid and dangerous. We know proponents of certain diets can act in a very cult-like, extreme way, even exercise regimens. Oh, that's great.

Mm. I'm sorry, I clear my throat there. Children don't get to choose the families they're born into though. It's a random draw. One baby pops out with Kim Kardashian as its mother, while another may be born into a tent on Skid Row to a mother who is an addict. That is a world of difference.

The Welsh children were born to a couple that had recently discovered what bordered on fundamentalist Christianity, modern fundamentalist perhaps. They had no choice in the matter. They were living in a home in the middle of nowhere, with only their father around to take care of them much of the time. It seemed Seth was the ringleader, the indoctrinator. The inside of the Welsh home was a mystery to outsiders for a long time, but the outside gave clues as to what kind of life they were living. What could be seen from the road was an unkempt, overgrown yard with bales of hay strewn about, and an old grey wooden fence bordering the edge of the property.

The fence often had things painted on it, words. Repent, believe, obey. My kingdom is not of this world, his kingdom comes, his will be done." Another sign, a hand painted square poster stuck with a stake in the grass, red. Every knee shall bow, and every tongue shall confess to God. These proclamations extended into social media as well. A post from July 24, 2018 gives some insight into the parenting techniques Seth and Tatiana may have employed.

And teach your children crafts that are agreeable and befitting to religion, less through idleness they give themselves to wantonness. Or if they are not corrected by their parents, they will do those things that are evil, like the heathen. In other words, keep those little shits busy because if you don't, they'll revert

to their natural default evil tendencies. God is calling all sorts of people into a very radical faith in this time in this nation. And I hope you're one of them. So my personal page is, I think, tagged in this video. I'm not hard to find. So if you would like to connect with me personally, you're more than invited to do so.

Where we're gonna keep the Facebook page open and I don't really know exactly where we're gonna keep the Facebook page open and I don't really know exactly where we're gonna go. I don't have a clear picture of where the future is gonna go. Jesus said, the spirit is like the wind and it comes from here there and you follow it and it blows you where you go. So I don't know exactly where this is gonna go. Every solid business plan includes the words, I don't have exactly where this is going to go. Every solid business plan includes the words,

I don't have a clear picture, right? Unfortunately for him, all the half-baked plans Seth had for his farm, the courses, the fellowship, none of it, panned out. Is that a surprise to you? I hope not, because it's so you should never, ever start a business. But the reason this business and the lives of every single member of this family came ...

9-1-1. I guess I don't know if this is the right place to report this to. I'm at home and one of my children is at. How old is the child? Uh, like 10 months. And why do you believe the child is deceased? I have no idea we just woke up and stayed there. Okay. Are you home alone? No, I'm here with my wife and my family.

Did the child have any medical history? No. The telephone number is third and and the aunt, okay? Dr. Mick will get that. He is just in that King County. Okay. What? Tell me exactly what happened.

Sir, hold on just a second. Callers with this ten-month-old child. We believe there's a disease. Okay. All child. We believe this is deceiving. Okay. I just heard something that's going to happen. I mean, it's not been a week. I put her down yet today. I'm on a little room together up this morning and she said. All right, telling exactly why you think she's the thief.

I don't have. Um, one second, sir. So why do you think it is? I don't know. I'm going to need a description sir. Why do I think he said? Yeah, because he's not breathing and makes smell hearty. This call is all over the place, but that's why we're here to guide you through this absurdity. Let's run through what just happened. Seth Welch called 911 in August of 2018 after finding his infant daughter dead. He wasn't even sure if calling 911 was the right thing to do.

He left her in the other room while he was on the phone with Dispatch. If you found your 10-month-old baby dead in the crib, would you not be attempting CPR and asking the dispatch what you could do to try to revive her, while help is on the way? Please. Bradford, he did say there was no prior medical history with the child. OK. Oh, I don't know what else. Let me know when you're right by the baby, please. I, we are, you bad.

OK, tell me, please, why you think she's dead? It's cold. She's not breathing. I was trying to see if he was earlier, and she was on responses. There is no proof that Tatiana or Seth actually attempted CPR prior to calling 911. Sir, I might keep them on the line. Okay. I just have a few more instructions. May I, sir? They're downgrading the night-ree cold to the touch. Hello?

Yes, hello. Yeah, the paramedics are on the way and need you to leave everything as you found it, okay? Okay. All right, and you have more for them, County? Yes. Okay, I'll send that back. Thank you. Thanks, Rockford.

Sir? Yeah. Okay. I heard, I believe it's the mother of the child on the off-cheater wife. She said she started CPR earlier. How long did you find this child? It's about an hour and a half. I was waiting. I called my lawyer first thing to ask, you know, what's the next thing I should do? And they said, wait till they're here to call, you know, the police and get that going. Basically, I got to play where I was waiting so long.

I just kind of went ahead and did it anyway. They're almost here. So I was just, I was, I was waking on legal counsel. So you found the child an hour and a half ago? Yeah. And called your lawyer first, correct? Yes. Okay. Yes, you heard that correctly.

Not only did both Tatiana and Seth wait 90 minutes before calling 911, he tells 911 to dispatch that they called their lawyer, not their parents, which is a very interesting little detail. Is there any other children in the home right now? Yeah, because I didn't know if I was supposed to call the police or not. I have no idea what to do. Okay. We will send someone out working in investigate.

When was the last time that you had contact with the child? Last night about, yes, afternoon, about 3 p.m. You know, she goes to bed. And, you know, that was that. Okay, so you put her to bed last yesterday at 3 p.m.? Yep, and this morning at like 10 something we finally went into check on her, like, okay, it's been late too long, so you know, she sleeped long all the time normally, so. So you're saying it is normal for your children to sleep from around 3pm till 10am? You know, usually about 9, 9, 30, yeah.

It's sleep from 3pm to...I'm just taking that in a couple things here. Sure. What times do they usually have dinner? Well, this is my infant. They're not all...they're not all kind of run on this schedule, but she's basically eating something. You know, she's up to half hour after that and then you go to the doctor, bud. Okay. And how old are the other children. Yeah. And they're at home right now, right? Yep. He said, when you found her, she was already believed to be deceased, right?

Yeah. And that's when you consulted with a lawyer? Yep. Do you believe she was beyond help already? Oh yeah, she was dead as a door now. Oh yeah. She was dead as a door nail. He says, when I first heard this I couldn't believe what I was listening to. The tone he has is so flippant, so cold, so detached from reality. There's absolutely zero emotion in his voice

but your wife still tried to be our event yeah when when she first daughter of the before like before we call them everything yet well that that was person she did who's just you two your wife the two children any other family been contacted? Well, my lawyers are my mom and my dad, so they're on the way here, but...

Okay. Can your parents or your attorneys? Yeah. And what was your name, Seth? W-E-L-C-H. Welch. Where were they coming from? Grand Haven. Okay, there is a couple deputies that are going to come out and talk to you guys. The ambulance is still on their way.

Okay. So they're going to come appalled listening to this 911 call. And I'm sure it's even worse for those of you who are parents. In no way shape or form would any normal human be acting as calmly as Seth was on this call. I don't have kids, but if my dog were to pass away, I'd be inconsolable for quite a while. Apparently his child dying didn't even ruin Seth's day. Was he sad for even just a few minutes? A little too nauseous or anxious to maybe eat his sandwich for lunch? Perhaps. Maybe? We'll never know. It's likely that the 9-1-1 operator was feeling just as we are listening to Seth speak, and that may have

been what prompted him to ask Seth how he's holding up here at the end of the call. And by doing so, boy did he catch some good stuff for the trial. When paramedics and police finally arrived to the rural godly Welch home, they walked into the fly-infested house and were greeted by the emaciated body of Mary and Welch. The ten-month-old weighed only eight pounds. She was the size of a newborn. One of the female officers on the scene later called upon her memory, tearfully recounting that the baby's eyes were sunken in, and she was unnaturally tiny. She was cold at the touch by the time help arrived, just like her daddy said. She was dead as a doornail.

To even the uneducated eye, this was a clear case of neglect. Mary had been left alone for 19 hours in her crib. No one had even checked in on her, that entire stretch of time. She was laying on a thin, ripped urine soaked mattress laden with toxic black mold. Slowly starving to death. The cause of death ruled by a medical examiner was death by malnutrition due to neglect over a period of weeks to months. It's crucial to point out that Seth and Tatiana, Seth specifically, were in no way malnourished. He was a plump young 20-something year old, and I mean plump.

We've been obviously reporting on what's going on with you, and um... Yeah, so I've been informed. You've been making reports of some sort. So that's why we're contacting you, obviously. We only have with the police again. Yes, I would advise you to be careful what you say from here on out. You will answer to the Lord for everything that is said against me. Okay. Seth, we're recording this for a story. That's fine. You go ahead and record it, sir. What do you want

people to know about this situation? Obviously you're in jail and you could be there for the rest of your life. What do you want people to know about what happened? Do you feel like you're being justly treated? Am I being justly treated on the inside? Yes, I am very thankful for the conditions that could be much worse. I believe I'm being unfairly charged and being made an example of for my very strong faith and the trying times that are ahead and being made an example of. Seth and Tatiana were both arrested and charged with the first degree murder of their daughter Mary. The way the couple's faith plays into this situation is simple. Not only did they severely neglect the needs of their infant daughter, they refuse to take any of their children to the doctor for any sort of medical care,

for religious reasons, of course. None of the children were vaccinated and none were taken to the doctor for checkups to make sure their development was progressing at a normal rate. I'm sure you're aware that Christians every day follow them, what is known, the normal protocol after a child's born

taking them to the pediatrician regularly they get weighed they get an idea if they're at risk for these kinds of things Christians do that all the time why didn't you? Well without passing judgment on any one person or their situation Jesus Christ himself did say that many do honor with their lives, but their hearts are far from him. So, you know, just because someone identifies as a Christian, it doesn't really mean anything. What counts is whether or not you're really actually physically manifesting the teachings of Christ.

The original Greek word for sorcery is pharmacaya, which is easily translated into our modern word for pharmacy, which is all the use of pharmaceutical drugs, and including, like things like vaccines, which even have ingredients containing aborted fetuses, and all sorts of toxic chemicals, which are causing allergic reactions, and in some cases deaths amongst the populace, and the more they are being injected into the populace, you know, I think the results

are pretty clear. People are getting more and more sick, there's more and more allergies, there's more and more, you know more physical maladies. Seth, I'm sure you can gather by listening to him speak isn't stupid. The ideology he spouts off is certainly bizarre and from a place of miseducation, but he's somewhat eloquent in his delivery. In this jailhouse interview, he tries vehemently to explain why his daughter may have died, and why it wasn't, there of fault.

My wife put the, you know, every day before my wife goes to work, she completely drains her breast milk into our daughter. Ugh, what a weird way to convey that the baby was breastfed. I don't think he could have come up with a more uncomfortable sentence than that. throughout the evening. My wife gets home from work at about 11, 11, 30. Sorry, it's a little tough to talk about. It's still pretty raw. So I checked on her, checked on her, she's still sleeping. If you put a baby down with a full tummy and a clean diaper, generally my policy is not to wake them up. I let them wake themselves up. I've never had a problem with a child not waking

up when they were hungry or had a wet diaper or anything like that. Babies, if you're lucky, will sometimes sleep through the night. Sure. Not often, but sometimes. That usually doesn't extend beyond eight hours of uninterrupted sleep. I don't think I've ever gotten more than eight hours of uninterrupted sleep. And a baby would I've ever gotten more than eight hours of uninterrupted sleep. And a baby would certainly not sleep through 19 hours without making a single sound. I finally fell asleep, I don't know, maybe 5'36 o'clock, and I didn't get out of bed again until about. Well, honestly, I think until my wife came back and told me that she was dead. My wife had gone right up the street real quick to go pick up some clothes from the neighbor's house,

and then she said, OK, that's enough sleep time for Mary. It's time to wake up now. That's quite enough. Now, it's been a long time. And so she went in there, and she rushed back into the room to tell me that Mary wasn't breathing and I shot out of bed like a rocket and we rushed into her room and my wife began to you know attempt to perform CPR but I could tell from looking at Mary I could tell because her skin was gray like they weren't when we put her to bed I knew she was dead. Babies have small bladders, so they need diaper changes often, and they need to eat every few hours. Even we as adults find it difficult to make it a few hours without food. We start to get a little hangy. Let alone almost a full day.

When people start to death they get sickly. And you think maybe if she was starting to death she would cry, right? a full day. The reality is that on this particular day, Seth did not hear his baby cry because she was physically unable to. The starvation and dehydration she endured had progressed over the course of several months, and by this point she was so frail and weak that she didn't even have the energy to cry. Little Mary was laying in her disgusting bed, unable to do anything. Helpless and alone. She could not lift her little arms.

She could not utter a sound. Seth wants everyone to believe that his baby was eating well, that they were giving her quote, the good stuff, the way you would describe giving your dog pedigree instead of alpo. Um, no, she was a skinny girl, but everybody in my family has always been skinny. I know it's hard to believe with our current condition. My middle daughter Elizabeth of, of this marriage, was a very skinny girl when she was growing up, and now she's bigger than some six-year-old boys.

So I didn't really think anything of it. In the Bible, it says that good food is our medicine, so we fed her. We were feeding her chicken, potatoes, apples, cheese. I mean, we were given her the good good stuff and then also combined with breast milk. And she died. It's a tragedy. It said, you know the Lord give it, the Lord take it to the Bible. It says that we are not to use sorcery. So yes, we did the best we could for Mary according to our faith. We fed her good food. You know, we gave her water. We gave her lots of love. She just... she passed. The judge that presided over the case had some poignant words to say after hearing the

couple's defense attorney speak during the hearing. Here's the defense attorney. It doesn't exactly take a dietician to know that a baby needs to feed more than once in a 24-hour period. In addition, common sense will tell us that a 10-month-old should weigh more than a measly 8 pounds. A gallon jug of orange juice weighs about the same as this baby who was nearing a year old.

Death by starvation or dehydration is not quick and it's not painless. The process is very slow and agonizing. For an infant who could not yet speak, or someone who couldn't cry out and verbalize or needs, it must have been hell. It can take as little as three weeks to die from starvation. Some adults can make it up to 70 days, but that would be highly unusual for a small baby, with little to no muscle and fat stores. Once the body consumes whatever muscle and fat is available, it starts to turn on itself, turning towards

organ tissue. Soon, those two are depleted, and the starving person does not even have the energy to move. They can't do anything, imprisoned in the shell of their own body. They can't even eat or drink at that point. Every movement is painful. Do not only to the lack of muscle tissue and energy,

but because the skin can become extremely dry and cracked from dehydration. When you think about the hunger you feel when it's been about five hours since lunch in your craving dinner, the feeling is not even comparable to true hunger. I'd wager that most of you have never experienced the sensation of starving and certainly Plumpy Seth Welch had not either. And Seth is at home with three children trying a new farm work, trying to take care of the house, trying to be a father, and he just can't do it.

You saw the pictures of the house, he's not working on house. He's not cleaning. He's not working on the fields, because they're all overgrown. What is he doing that he is so overwhelmed? How would you feel? You are imprisoned in yourself, because you don't have the energy to move. She didn't have the energy to even put up her arms, and she didn't have the energy to cry. up her arms and she didn't have the energy to cry.

Don't tell me you didn't know that. And don't tell me you didn't intend that because you didn't get her a little touch out of that crib. You left her in there, you ignored her because she was in inconvenience. Records indicate that Tatiana and Seth knew that baby Mary was grossly underweight for more than a month. They didn't want to take her to the doctor because Seth greatly mistrusts physicians. Probably because the last time they had seen one, the doctor reported the family to CPS. Seth didn't want that to happen again. I mean, it is dangerous to take your kid to the doctor's office these days.

It is. It just plain is. And you know, if you don't do what they say, if you don't buy what they want you to buy so that they can make some money off you for the love of money is the root of all kinds of evils, they'll call the government on you. I had it happen, sir. Dr. prescribed my daughter a head-shaping helmet because her head was like one millimeter out of round. This head-shaping helmet because her head was like one millimeter out of round This head-shaping helmet cost almost four thousand dollars When we refused to purchase this helmet from him

He forged paperwork against us. Okay. He gave my daughter a Elizabeth a clean bill of health He gave my daughter Elizabeth a clean bill of health Okay, and sent us out the door no problems, but then after we refused to purchase this product from him he then Added on to the paperwork After we were already gone and you didn't give a different set of paperwork to CPS claiming that was malnourished There's like I said we had our key our little girls are skinny, okay? So but he never told us was malnourished Seth uses words like forged to describe this doctor's actions. Doctors are mandatory reporters of abuse and neglect, and they don't have to let the

family know that they're calling CPS. I daily pray that our family will be restored, that in court it will be shown that this was a tragedy, this was not a crime, there was no ill will involved, there was truly no neglect involved, especially if we're going to take freedom of religion into this, we did everything according to our religion. And Congress is not to pass laws against certain practices of religion, and especially, you know, our religion does not involve killing people or lying or stealing. The ultimate law, taught by Christ, is, you know, to love your neighbor

as you love yourself, to love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind and soul. So there's nothing criminal about what we did. It's a tragedy. It was something that was just out of our hands. And these things happen every day. Children die in a doctor's office every day. Look at, go look at the statistics of how many people in this country die every year due to medical malpractice And doctors don't go to jail If we're gonna bring statistics into the discussion the percentage of saved lives versus ruined lives at the hands of medical professionals says it all

Far more people have been saved by modern medicine than have been killed. It's just a fact. Seth also mentions an important and complex issue, the separation of church and state. As part of his argument for his innocence, he mentions that Congress cannot pass laws that would infringe upon religious beliefs or religious practice. Freedom of religion is indeed one of the cornerstones of this nation, but the government is pretty inconsistent with the laws and rulings pertaining to freedom of religious practice.

On one hand, we know that polygamy, which is part of modern fundamentalist Mormonism, is not legal to practice in the United States. The Supreme Court ruled on this one in 1878. Polygamy doesn't directly harm anyone, so shouldn't it be legal? On the other hand, many states still have religious exemptions from child abuse and neglect laws. According to Pew Research Center, 44 states currently allow religious exemption for childhood vaccination.

What's utterly concerning though, is the number of states that still retain religious exemption for basic medical care. As of 2016, the number was 34 states offering legal shields for parents who wouldn't take their children to the doctor for religious reasons. Here's a professor of history from Boston College. His name's Alan Rogers and he's written an entire book about how religious exemption laws harm children.

He's talking about why these exemptions still exist. This was explained to me by a lobbyist. It's easier to pass a law, he explained to me, than it is to remove one. No one, he said, wanted to stake their career on taking a law off the books. First of all, his constituents have no idea what the law is and couldn't care less. And secondly, it's tough to convince fellow legislators that something of that source should be done. In other words, it wasn't acted. And so what the heck, that's good to stay, right? So even when there are hearings which demonstrate the danger of such a law, demonstrate the death that such a law brings, nothing happens.

There are countless cases like this one. Unfortunately for Seth and Tatiana, Michigan is not one of the states where religious exemption is absolute. In January of this year, Seth was found guilty of felony murder and first-degree child abuse. His sentence is mandatory life in prison with no possibility of parole. Do yourself a favor and go watch the video of his arrangement. When I went into the courtroom, I was expecting something along the lines of a homicide charge. So I expected, due to the circumstances, a child died accidentally for unknown reasons in our care. Okay, I figured, you know, negligent, I would understand why i would get charged with negligent homicide or involuntary manslaughter but to be charged with essentially first degree murder

and look at life without the possibility of parole i was very shocked and i went to myself and i cried and i cried and i laid down flat on my face and I just cried out in prayer. And I do believe that God spoke to me and said that He will see me through this. He spoke to me both through His word and I also received a sign where I was praying and then I looked up and the sunlight was coming through my window casting a shadow of the cross on my wall. Tatiana Fusari pleaded no contest to her charges, and is currently awaiting sentencing.

She is expected to get at least 25 years in prison. Tatiana gave birth to yet another child during her time in prison, and that infant is not to have contact with the other two children taken from the Welch farm. Seth Welch can claim that his parenting techniques, or lack thereof, were drawn straight from the Bible. He can continue to say this until his dying day behind those iron bars. The kicker of this story is this. Seth himself got sick in prison. And he demanded that he receive medical treatment.

Ugh. Let's hope Seth's tum tum is doing okay. Don't you love this world. If you had a chance to say something, uh, one more thing to your daughter that passed away. What would you say to her? Boy, you're looking for a sound by an arn'tcha. I'm sorry, I can't give you a... I love you. I mean, I don't know what to tell you, sir. I wish I had my whole life with her. That does it for yet another episode of Sword and Scale. Thank you so much for joining us.

This is the last episode before our summer break break so we will be back on July 12th with episode 166 on plus and that episode will drop on the regular feed on the 19th. So until then we hope you have a wonderful fourth of July a wonderful summer in fact. Flip some burgers, grill some dogs, but most importantly, stay safe. I'm a fan of this to you all my partners listen to you. We love your podcast And if something matter the case is you cover your voice the transition using intro outs are to do everything perfect man I'm glad you're back and good on you for sticking up the man through those guys You got to support out here in Cali buddy. All right, man. Stay safe Hey Mike Stay me and I'm actually from San Diego my truck driver and I cannot get enough

of your series. I have been watching our Finns Listen rather. Two forty-eight episodes, and I am still listening. I know you're probably at 150 plus in, but keep up the good work, man. Hi, I just wanted to thank you for the show and you are clearly a smart, sarcastic, filthy, panned, mother fucker. But I love you. I just wanted to tell you I appreciated Emma Mailman from Illinois, extra driving to New York to Illinois at the moment. And I just appreciate the shows and the distraction and the delivery. And you do have a fantastic voice. I'm sure you're sick of hearing it, but you're told when you're intonation, you're complete delivery.

You are a national treasure, and I appreciate you. Have a good day. You you