Sword and Scale - Episode 167

Episode Date: August 3, 2020

The lives of Kevin and Marina Krim were forever changed on October 25th, 2012. All of New York City was suddenly rethinking their caregivers. “Is the person taking care of mom, dad, the dog, or the baby actually safe? What are the chances we could unknowingly hire a lunatic?” It could happen to anyone. The Krim family was unlucky.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Sword and Scale contains adult themes and violence and is not intended for all audiences Listener discretion is advised Line on the floor base up in the doorway was the defendant reading from a self-inflicted wound to her neck Beyond the defendant in the bathtub or the bloody and lifeless bodies. [♪ Music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in. We're gonna get going here in just a second, but before we do, I often forget to tell you to please go to iTunes and leave us a five star review if you can. It really helps us get new listeners and there's a lot of people out

there that have still not heard of Sword and Scale unfortunately. We'd also like to remind you that the iOS app is available and it's very, very cool. If you're a plus subscriber, head on over to the Apple App Store and download it, check it out. You can log in with your existing credentials. If you're not a subscriber yet, you can subscribe right from the app.

And once again, our Android app will be coming by the end of this summer. We're busy at work trying to make sure that we get all the bugs out before introducing it. The final blast of pin and sticker perks will be going out this week. So look out for those in the mail if you're in the $10 level or higher. Okay, that's it. Let's get into this horrible, horrible story. One that shows you that monsters really can be anywhere, including our own home. 37 year old Kevin Krim is a Harvard grad. In 2012 he landed a significant job working for CNBC, just two years after moving his family from San Francisco, California to New York City.

He was attending a work event on the West Coast and was scheduled to return home on October 25th 2012. In addition to his role as a digital content executive for CNBC, Kevin was a father. He had three children, a six-year-old daughter, a three-year-old daughter, and a two-year-old son. Home for the Creme family was the Upper West Side of New York City, in a luxury apartment building called La Rochelle. Kevin was relieved to be arriving home and was looking forward to reuniting with his three children and his wife Marina. As Kevin's flight landed at the JFK airport, his phone began to dink. Alert? After alert, friends and family were calling and texting him, asking,

were you all right? He didn't know what was going on. Why would people think he wasn't all right? Did they think his plane had gone down? He didn't even have a minute to look over and respond to these strange texts. When the captain came with the loudspeaker and announced that police officers were going to be removing someone from the plane, the flight attendant scurried up the aisle and nudged his arm, asking him to stand up and walk towards the front of the plane. Kevin noticed his

phone ringing. He answered it. It was his brother-in-law. He was telling him that something had happened to his children. A couple of police officers escorted the frazzled Kevin Krim off the aircraft and into their vehicle. They silently drove him to St. Luke's Roosevelt Hospital Center, a doctor at the hospital promptly alerted him to the awful truth. Two of his children were dead. When I am golden, my love stays, I shall be proud and great, and tell the best of good and girls and boys not to let go in my time. This is 6-year-old Lulu Krim and her little sister, 2-year-old Nessie. Their parents always made an effort to encourage creativity and expression through art. In this case, the little girls were reciting a poem on camera for their mother.

Marina captioned this video. For special occasions, I would work with our kids to memorize poems or songs to recite. It was always good bonding for us as we stumbled over the lines of the current versus we were learning. I love to watch their confidence grow when we'd video them performing their poem, which was always a hit with their grandparents. We would spend the month of December learning traditional Spanish songs to perform on Christmas Eve, like Palo Bonito and Domela Lomano Paloma.

And recently, we were covering some of great grandmother bababa's favorites, like looking forward in the swing from Robert Lewis Stevenson's a child garden of verses. 36-year-old Marina used to be a kindergarten teacher but transitioned into life as a state-home mom. Having three kids and two parents working full-time would have been an overwhelming amount of responsibility. Many couples end up spending so much on their childcare that it doesn't make practical sense for both parents to work full-time. Marina chose to quit her full-time job

and continue teaching art on the side. She maintained a blog about her family life. She posted photos and short blurbs about the children, similar to things you might read in old baby books. Back before photos and memories were all contained on the internet. Marina's anecdotes on her blog called Little Miss Lucía, detailed things like, and the world's easiest child goes to Leo Lido Krim. Yes, the two-year-old boy. One of the best parts of my day is after I drop both girls off at school and have three precious hours with little

veto all to myself. Okay, I'm near getting cheesy. I adore this boy so much. He's obsessed with collecting acorns he finds on the floor. He loves riding the school bus, and he happily plays by himself for long periods of time. Here he is set up his kitchen and living room, and is making bacon. Not sure where he learned the word bacon. The crimp family had a hectic schedule. With both of the girls involved in activities like dance and swimming lessons. Even before the youngest child Leo was born, Marina often found herself needing to be in multiple places at one time.

Back when she was very pregnant with baby Leo, she was approached at a dance recital on the Upper West Side by a woman named Celia. Celia saw that Marina was pregnant and expecting a third child. Celia was a nanny for another family on the Upper West Side. Celia told Marina that she had a sister who was great with kids who had worked as a nanny previously and who could definitely help out when Marina had the third child. Celia recommended that Marina hired her sister, the defendant, when she had the baby. And Celia made the call to her sister,

the defendant, to set up the meeting. Now, at this point, the crimson had not had any outside help with the kids. Marina was a stay-at-home mom, but with a third child on the way, and Lulu, I believe, was four, and Nessie just about to turn to, they decided that they were willing to consider an experience nanny to assist them with the child care needs and logistics with three children. Because of Celia's glowing recommendation, the crimp family decided to seriously consider

hiring this middle-aged woman, Yosselin Ortega. Marina asked Yosselin for some official references who could speak to her experience in child care. And Yasolin gave her a letter from a woman named Yacolín Severino. Severino described the two years Yasolin had worked for her family caring for her young son. Severino mentioned that Yas or Teigah had been recommended to their family by another nanny. The recommendation letter set Marina and Kevin Crimson's minds at ease. They desperately needed help, and this woman seemed to check all the boxes.

They hired her in the spring of 2010. Yosselin was to work approximately 25 hours a week at $18 an hour under the table, meaning paid in cash and probably not reported to the IRS. Using an inflation calculator, that's about 20 bucks an hour in the present day. It's pretty good money for a nanny. It's no secret that the cost of living is high in New York City, and Yoselin had a child of her own to take care of. Yoselin was born in the Dominican Republic, and she left her son, Jesus, at the age of

four, to be raised by Yoselin's sister, ultimately until he turned 17. She visited a couple of times a year and tried to help financially by sending her sister money for her son whenever she could. Prior to landing the nanny position with the crim family, Yosselin bounced back and forth between several factory jobs, living with different family members in the area. In 2012 though, just two years after she was hired, Hesuse finally moved to the city to live with his mother. They found an apartment she sublet in the Bronx from another family who moved out of the area temporarily, and she tried to make things work financially.

She hoped that Hesuse could comfortably finish his last year of high school in the United States and apply to some American colleges. A better life for your immigrant child. Who wouldn't want that? You will hear that almost as soon as Jesus arrived and stressed that anxiety began to mount. You will learn that the defendant enrolled Jesus in private school so that he didn't have to repeat the eleventh grade and therefore had to pay private school tuition. Private school is not cheap. Even the Crims, who were pretty well off, sent their children to public schools. And Marina Crim didn't understand the need to send his suce to a private Catholic school

when Yoselelin was already struggling so much financially. The first check for Hesu's tuition was over $7,000. For Yoselin, and I'm sure you can imagine, it was difficult to show up to work at the Crimfamilies luxurious Upper West Side apartment every day, knowing that each night she would have to go back to her small apartment in the Bronx, where she'd be reminded of all the things in life that she lacked. She was well aware that she was not caring for her son in the same way that the crimmed children were cared for.

It seems she could have one of two things. Money to take care of his shoes, her quality time with his shoes. But she could not have both. She had to leave her son every day to go take care of children she viewed as privileged. And they were, in every sense of the word. Not only did they have the extra helping hands of a nanny, but their mother was also home with them, taking care of them as well. The crimch children wanted for nothing. According to Hayseus, Yosselin's son, she loved the crimch children. Lucia Crem, the oldest girl, would send drawings and other works of art home with her nanny.

It seemed that all three of the Crem kids loved her just as much as she appeared to love them. Yoselun, however, over the two years she worked for the Crem family, started to become tired of all the demands Marina Krim was putting on her. It was all just too much. Even though Yaslin herself had decided to go above and beyond doing little things like wearing a uniform to work,

even though the Krims had never asked her to. She never complained to the Krims about anything though. She never asked for a raise or aired any grievances. She did her work silently and adequately for two full years. This was her life. She was used to working tirelessly every single day and had been doing it since early childhood. who worked anonymously her entire life from age 7 until age 50. At age 7 she worked hard along with her siblings and her parents Bojega in the Dominican Republic until she graduated from college in 1985. New Yorkers just love throwing the word bodega in the conversations whenever they possibly can, don't they?

If you speak Spanish, you know bodega means store, so it's really not that exotic. She got the clothing from her relatives, her acquaintances, the well-to-do in New York City, and the firey of it, into the Duranic Republic, into the mountains, into the country areas, the outlying areas, the pockets of poverty, and distributed the collective clothing and food to those children right need her. She expect people to know that is it coming her way and had no agenda. The hospital donated to 27 no charities in the United States on a regular basis,

supporting unfortunate children, menful and religious charities. She'd write $10 chance regularly to each, sent with her hopes and prayers to save the suffering of us excited. She worked tirelessly at multiple jobs at a time to support her one child, Haysune Sprias, his entire life from age 4 to age 17. In order to ensure his religious education, this helped his goodness welfare. In late 2012,

knowing that Yoselin was becoming increasingly stressed over Hesu's presence in the states and the financial strain that came along with him, Marina offered Yoselin more ways to make money. She offered additional hours for Yoselin, suggesting that she could do some cleaning around the house and allowed his shoes to dox it for them as well. Marina also passed along Yoselun's information to friends and equates looking for nanny and babysitting services. For some reason, Yoselun saw this as insulting.

She felt like she was already doing so much for them and didn't understand how Marina could ask her to add even more to her workload. But she didn't say anything. Nothing at all. Marina's offers of assistance enraged the defendants. And then although the defendant maintained a professional and cordial demeanor when dealing directly with Marina, internally she seized.

She seized at the very idea that Marina would say that she could do additional work. Seeds at the idea that Marina would even consider asking her to do additional work. While the defendant's feelings have been added to see about what she couldn't could not provide for her son increased. And as the defendant's feelings of anxiety and stress increased, so did her resentment toward Marina.

The resentment continued to fester. Day after day, it became an angry at any moment. On October 25, 2012, Kevin Krim was on a business trip returning that night from San Francisco. That afternoon, Marina Krim planned to take their middle daughter, Messi, to swim fast, and then to pick up Lulu, who was then six from dance because Lulu's school ended at 315 her dance class started at 345 and Nessie's swim class was at four Marina couldn't be in all those places at once so the defendant was expected to and asked to pick up Lulu school, take her to dance class, and then go home while we own out. Marina would take Nassie this one class, and when

swim class was over, Marina and Nassie would go to dance class to pick up Lulu, and the three of them would return home. This is the way that everything had worked with the Crimson's defendant for the two years she even worked with him. Wow, the responsibility of scheduling out various activities for children is beyond me. Can you imagine running multiple kids back and forth to different activities that begin and end in overlapping times? All the while trying to navigate New York City traffic? Me neither. I'll let somebody else do that. The dormant at the Crimson's apartment building saw families of all sizes coming and going from L'Arachelle every single day.

They got to know the families. They knew who was married to whom and which children belonged to which people. On the afternoon of October 25th, 2012, the dormant on duty at La Rochelle recounted to authorities that Yoselin Artega, a woman he recognized as the nanny for the crime family, arrived at the building with Lulu and Leo Krim. Yoselin was supposed to have picked up six-year-old Lulu up from school and taken her to dance class. But that's not what she did. Yoselin, with the children in tow, asked the dormant quote, is the mom home.

He told her that Marina had left, and Yoselin proceeded to take the kids up to the apartment. When Little Nessie's swim class ended, Marina picked her up and the two went on their way to pick up Lulu from dance. But when Marina arrived at the dance class on West 67th Street, she learned that Lulu had never made it to dance class. And she feared that something was terribly wrong.

The ladies in gentlemen, what Marina Prince feared might have gone wrong, did not even approach what had actually happened. The ladies and gentlemen, what Marina Prince feared might have gone wrong, did not even approach what had actually happened. It was just about 5 p.m. when Marina learned that the moon never made it to dance fast. In the two years that the defendant had been working with the Grimm family, she had never not been where she was supposed to be. She was reliable, and it's why crames worked with her for two years and trusted her with their children. We're going to begin texting the defendant. Where are you?

Where's Lulu? Don't they stop? Yosselin never responded. She did not answer the calls. She did not reply to the text messages. Marina scooped Nessie up and made her way to the apartment building as quickly as she could. It was about 520 by the time she reached the building. Marina ran with Nessie up to their unit and opened the door slowly. It was eerily quiet. And none of the lights were on. The kids were nowhere to be found, and neither was Yosselin or Tehga.

When Marina looked around as she first entered the apartment, she noticed Leo's stroller sitting idly in the main room empty. She saw Lulu's ballet bag on the floor. Marina continued texting Yoselin from inside the apartment. Those texts also went unanswered. So Marina went out of the apartment down to the landing and yelled to the door man on duty. Have you seen my children? Have you seen the defendant? and the doorman on duty who started his shift in four in the afternoon said he had not. So Marina went back into the dark apartment, holding Nessie's hand, and went through the entire apartment,

quiet and dark, holding Nessie's hand, calling out for Lulu, calling out for Leo. Until she got the bathroom at the back of the apartment. The bathroom door was closed with just a thin strip of light escaping from the bottom edge of the door. The apartment was dark. The bathroom was not.

Someone was inside. Still holding Nessie's hand. Marina Kreme opened that bathroom door. And what she saw was inconceivable, unthinkable. Marina Kreme opened the bathroom door and saw the bloody, lifeless bodies of her six-year-old daughter, two-year-old son, stacked in the bathtub, their eyes open, covered in blood, staring ahead. This seems straight out of a horror movie.

Marina seeing her children like that was bad enough, but three-year-old Nessie had to see her brother and sister too. She was standing right there, and even though she she was young she knew exactly what was happening She knew her siblings were dead And between her and her dead babies was the defendant the person responsible for this trusty Standing holding one of the knives that she had used to kill those babies Yoselun a woman the crim family had trusted for two years to take care of their three children, had betrayed everyone.

She planned this. She wanted to hurt Marina Crim. That same evening, the night of the murders, Yosselin's sister returned to the apartment they shared and couldn't find her. She called her phone over and over again, just like Marina Krim had, and got no answer. She found an envelope. Jocelyn had left for her. It had insurance information, bank information cash, and other legal documents.

She also included, what the prosecution later called a suicide note. The note alluded to her plans to take dangerous and irrational actions. The most painful image for anyone who's heard the details of this case has to be the image of Leo and Lulu coming into their apartment after Yosselin picked up Lulu from school, Lulu was expecting to grab her ballet bag and head off to dance class, but instead, her nanny grabbed a kitchen knife, took both she and her brother into the bathroom, and again attacking them. Marina was filled with rage at the sight of her bathroom. The white tile stained with numerous splashes and smears of blood, and her children discarded in the

bathtub. As soon as Marina opened the door to the bathroom she saw what had happened. Yoselyn grabbed the knife she had used to butcher the crim children and attempted to take her own life by slicing into her neck. Upon seeing her mass of her children and knowing immediately that they were dead, She collapsed on the landing, solving uncontrollably, and crying, inhum intensively that her children were dead. Hearing Marina's screams, the door man, Mr. Lubey, called 911. You will learn that the super of the building, Mr. Michael Minahan, while Mr. Lubey was making the call to 911, Mr. Minahan went to the crime apartment to try to understand what had happened.

And when he opened that bathroom door, he understood. He understood that what he had seen was pure evil, and not knowing what else to do in that situation, Mr. Menn and Rant, at the front of the only apartment, held it shut with both hands, using his foot against the wall as leverage to keep inside what he had just seen. Yoselun was sprawled out on the floor

of the bathroom bleeding from her neck wound. While the super of the building held his foot against the door. She was in no condition to try to escape, but he wanted to make sure there was no possible way she could hurt anyone else. Officers responded to the 911 call and bolted up to the apartment. It was still dark inside, and they had their guns drawn as they made their way through the unit.

Back to the bathroom at the rear. They encountered the man holding the bathroom door shut and relieved him of his task. Everyone was in shock as they entered the cold, they self in the doorway was the defendant, leading from a self-inflicted wound to her neck. Beyond the defendant in the bathtub were the bloody and lifeless bodies of Lucia and Neopron. Despite the fact that everything in that bathroom indicated that Lulu and Leo were dead, their officers did what they were trained to do, and they attempted to revive them. They tried to save them.

But neither Lulu nor Leo had a pulse, and Leo's body was already cold. Emergency services unit detectives, an emergency medical personnel responded shortly thereafter. You will hear them describe the horrors of what they observed in that bathroom. The blood all over the bathroom. One of the bloodiest scenes they had ever responded to.

The blooding in life was bodies of the children in the bathtub. Yosselin had slashed the large kitchen knife across two-year-old Leo's tiny neck. It went so deep that the blade hit his spine. Leo's sister Lulu had 22 stab wounds to her neck. She had other lacerations in her arms and deeper wounds on both sides of her torso. Later on in the trial, medical examiners noted that her injuries indicated that she fought valiantly for her life. She tried to run away.

The forensic evidence will prove to you that although Leo, two years old, was too small to struggle, Lulu was six years old and she fought back. She knew what was happening. She understood what the defendant was doing, and she fought to live. But the defendant was bigger and stronger, and the defendant repaid Lulu's resistance with almost 30 different stab and flashments to her body and her neck. Lulu also sustained cuts and abrasions to our hands and arms that you will learn are consistent with her defending herself, evidence of her fight to live. Both Lululeo suffered such severe and deep neck wounds that the first emergency or officers on scene thought that they may have been decapitated.

Both children died of excegnation, which is a fancy medical term describing an extreme loss of blood. The word brings forth images of animals hanging upside down to drain after being hunted and killed. This process is not quick when it's done, sloppily. It could have taken several minutes for both of the children to expire due to their blood loss. When they finally did die, and Yossalyn's job was complete after 90 minutes alone with the children, she stacked them in the tub and waited.

She waited for Marina, their mother, to enter the bathroom and see everything that she had done. She wanted to see that reaction, and she also wanted to make a spectacle of her suicide, hoping to make Marina feel guilty. She wanted to evoke some sort of emotion. The goal of this entire horrific event was ultimately to victimize Marina inflicted wound, but breathing steadily and not in any immediate danger. And so the EMTs and emergency services detectives like the first responding officers on the scene, ignoring the hopelessness of the situation immediately responded to the children and attempted life saving measures. The children were taken out of bathtub one at a time and placed on one adult-sized backboard

where CPR and chest compressions were attempted. But as you know, those chest compressions in that CPR did not do anything. As anyone who saw the children could know, new immediately, there was no way to save them. The devastation that the defendant had inflicted on their little bodies was too much. They had lost too much blood when the defendant's lit their throats and severed their genuine veins. Kevin Krim at the time was landing in JFK and was escorted off the plane. He was driven to St. Luke's hospital where everyone already knew the children was driven to St. Luke's hospital where everyone already knew the children could not be saved. They were pronounced dead upon arrival, and the news was relayed to Kevin when he arrived and reunited with Marina, and their only surviving child, Nessie.

Jocelyn Ortega was rushed out of the apartment building and into an ambulance, so that her life could be saved, and she could face the justice system. Suicide would have been too easy for her. It would have been the escape that she wanted. She would have succeeded in ruining the crime family's lives, and she wouldn't have to deal with her own painful life anymore. Unfortunately, for her, Yosselin survived. Because of the publicity, she was admitted to the hospital under a different name. Yosselin had sliced so deeply into her own neck with the knife that she broke two bones and severely damaged her vocal cords. She was intubated and completely incapacitated in the hospital, unable to speak. An officer was on duty guarding her room, and she finally awoke after a few days.

Almost as soon as she awoke, she began complaining. She begged hospital staff to put her out of her misery. She went on and on about Marina Krim and the horrors of working for the Krim family. She stated verbatim. I had to do everything and take care of the kids. I worked as babysitter only and she wanted me to do everything. She wanted five hours of cleaning every week. I told her I do not want to clean because of soap. You don't understand what they put me through. Yosselin pointed to her pinky finger,

where she had sustained a chemical burn in the past from a cleaning product. Let's revisit the reality of the situation. Marina Krim was trying her best to find ways for Yosselin to make extra money. The apartment Yoselin and her son, Hisus, were subletting in the Bronx, was no longer an option. Just a short time before the murders occurred, the original tenants of the apartment returned and forced Yoselin out. She and her son had to move back into a crowded apartment with family, sleeping

head to toe together on beds like sardines. That's life in New York City if you're poor. Marina was well aware of this, and she just wanted to help. He wasn't making demands of Yoselun. She was simply finding extra work for her to do to make extra money. Yoselun was only working 25 hours a week watching the kids after all. Her own child was nearly an adult and plenty of mothers work full-time jobs. Nothing that the Crimson offered Yoselun or requested of her was unreasonable. But envy is unreasonable. It envy is unreasonable. It's also one of the seven deadly sins. In the hospital between her complaints, Yosselin used a chart where the investigators pointing to either yes or no to answer their questions.

She admitted that she had indeed killed the children, And she stated that she used at least two knives during her 90 minutes alone with them. Neighbors, remember hearing Marina's screams that night. She's crying out, what am I going to do with the rest of my life? My life is ruined, I have no children, I have no children. It's a tragedy and I feel so terrible for this family. horrible horrible tragedy.

The strangest part of this case, and the reason Allah was passed due to this crime specifically, is that Yossal and Ortega was not qualified to be taking care of these children. She had never in her life worked as a nanny. Kevin and Marina Krim were lied to. So misled into believing that the defendant had in fact worked as a nanny before, the Krim's interviewed her and mid to late spring of 2010. They were in contact with a reference

that was provided by the defendant. Not learning until their children had been murdered by the defendant, that this reference was a family member, a relative of the defendant who had no children and whom the defendant had never worked for as an Annie. In fact, the defendant had never worked as an Annie before. Yacaline Severino, she was the main reason her relative Yoslin had been able to get the nanny job

in the first place. She went on and on about the two years Yoslin had worked as a nanny caring for her children. When Yacolene, in truth, had no children. She never had, at any point, had any children. She never had. At any point, had any children. Ever. The prosecution, in this case, would soon discover that this crime had a foundation.

The foundation allowed for the crime to occur. The foundation was Yosselin's family. They acted as a safety net. They bolstered her, lied for her, and facilitated the placement of this evil woman into the lives of an innocent family. Yosselin's family would later back up the defense's claim that she was indeed severely mentally ill.

Even if they believed her mental illness to be true, they still lied in order to help her land a job working with children. Yosel and Ortega was charged with two counts of first degree murder and two counts of second degree murder for the killings of Lulu and Leo Krim. This case had a hell of a long journey through the justice system. Based on the knowledge we have about Yoselin's statements immediately after waking up in the hospital, it's safe to assume

she did not want this process to be easy for the Krim family. Yoselin pleaded not guilty and took the case to trial. Her public defenders had to work to defend the indefensible. It was not a who'd done it crime. The evidence overwhelmingly pointed towards the nanny as the killer. That was irrefutable. In fact, Yosselin herself admitted she'd killed the children. You may be asking why she pleaded not guilty. This was yet another attempt for her to place the blame on something other than herself.

Yosselin was hoping to receive a verdict of not guilty by reason of insanity. This plea dragged the case out for more than five years. drag the case out for more than five years. Hi everyone, we're here to give you an update and to ask for your help. After five long years, the criminal trial in our case is getting started. And over the next few months, the story of Lulu and Leo and our whole family will be painfully in the news again. This trial will be very hard for us and for a lot of you. We feel like this community, all of you, have been with us all along through this whole experience. Even if you never

met Lululeo, you feel like you know them, you love them, and you're inspired by them like we are. So a lot of people have been asking us how they can help, how they can support us during this really horrible time. And we thought about it. And we realized that we're going to handle this the way we've handled everything. We're going to focus on the positive and the goodness that's come out of all this. During the time between the murders and the trial, Governor Cuomo, who we all know by now, signed a law called Lulu and Leo's Law. This crime was high profile in New York and made every family who utilized child care services fearful of what could happen to their own children. The unthinkable had happened to this normal, nice, affluent family from the Upper West

side, so it could happen to anyone, right? Lulu and Leo's law makes it illegal for a person to intentionally put false information about themselves, or someone else when they're applying for jobs as caregivers. This includes someone else misrepresenting the applicant as Yagaline Savarino did for Yoselina Ortega. The governor stated, quote, no parent should have to fear harm to their children by the very people entrusted to protect them.

As the father of three daughters, I cannot imagine the horror and the heartbreak experienced by the crimp family. And while nothing can erase that, I'm proud to sign this law that will help protect New York children and provide some peace of mind to their parents and loved ones. You'd think though that putting false information on a job application would have been illegal to begin with. As the nanny murder trial began in 2018,

there were endless news media outlets and attendance every single day of testimony. It was heinous. The stance the defense took in this case. Yasulin Ortega was essentially trying to claim that the devil made her do it. Her family once again stood made her do it. Her family once again stood behind her in solidarity.

They testified on her behalf and tried to convince the jury that she is and was mentally ill. But there had been no mention of mental illness by anyone until months after the murders. The defense will focus on the role that untreated mental illness played in the alleged killing of the two children Leo and Lulu. The evidence will show that what was in fact the condition of my client's mind at the time she allegedly committed the charged acts. The evidence will show her mind's reactions to various stimuli during the 50 years of her existence until October 25th, 12.

Hizana will instruct you to use your common sense when evaluating the adduced evidence. You will know a diseased mind when you see it. Do listen to the medical experts. They are definitions. They are explanations. They are explanations of my clients' conditions. They are reading of my clients' medical records. What do they say?

See if it makes sense to each of you. When an expert tells you my client is a malingerer, see if Yasula Norteca provided an exaggerated version of her symptoms to try to explain away why she allegedly acted in the manner charged. A malingerer, someone who exaggerates her fake sillness to get out of doing something, or in this case to shift the blame On to someone or something other than herself That's what Yoselin or Tega is a Malingerer see a determined weather in the weeks and months leading up to October 25th 12

My client was not sleeping, was not eating, was losing weight. See whether Miss Uotega was constantly crying, suffering from visual hallucinations, causing her to see shadows, suffering from delusions, causing her to feel as though the devil were penetrating her body and trying to separate her from her family. What is she suffering after so much of dissociation, was she hearing

commands to her herself and her others? Was she internally preoccupied? Was she acting strangely? Was she preoccupied to a fanatical proportion with religion and prayer? Friends and family testified that Yoselin first began suffering from mental health issues at the age of 16 after her sister died. Yoselin's mother was said to have taken her to get prescription and tied depressants, and they seemed to work. This is an example of situational depression. It would be surprising if she hadn't gone through

a bout of depression after the death of her sister. Teenageeers are already stressful enough, and losing a sibling so young is certainly not a normal trigger for situational depression. It was only several months after she murdered Lulu and Leo Krim that Yoselin complained to a psychiatrist that she was seeing and hearing things. It's pretty clear she was trying to build a foundation for an insanity play.

She claimed that all kinds of voices told her to do things. It's weird though that if you're suffering from this extreme of a stage of mental illness, you'd be able to finish college and hold so many different jobs in the United States as Yoselyn did. During trial, Yoselyn sisters sat in the stand and told the jury about Yoselyn's complaints of a black man trying to drive a wedge between two families. The women weren't talking about skin color. A cultural expert was called a testify, and he claimed that in the Dominican Republic, the color black can represent the devil.

Yosselin's sisters remembered that she'd been complaining about this black figure while she sat with them at church just a few months before the murders, and said he was following her and wouldn't leave her alone. Despite Yosselin's friends and family making all of these claims after the fact, mind you, none of them sought help for her. She allegedly gripped about shadows following her and voices in her head telling her to do things. Her sister stating that she didn't even sound like herself. That it was like she was talking to a demon.

And yet, they did nothing to help her. Nothing. Yosel and herself did seek the counsel of a psychologist, but she did it just three days before slaughtering the children, the ones she was paid to take care of. His name was Dr. Caffrey, located in the Upper West Side of the city. This man specializes in forensic psychology and the psychology of criminal behavior. A lot of good that degree did. Yoselin had gone to see him on her own accord. His prognosis for Yoselin or Tega after just one visit was good. There was no follow-up appointment.

She paid $200 in cash for the visit and left. Now, I'm not trying to blame the psychologist, but if psychology can't even predict a gruesome murder of children three days from now, then what's the point other than naming things after the fact? We also know that patients often lie to their therapist, which can impede the journey towards good mental health. We don't know exactly what Jocelyn talked about during this visit, but is it possible that she planned her crime so meticulously that she made sure to visit a mental health professional to bolster a future insanity plea,

just in case she didn't get away with it. It's certainly not out of the question. There are several elements to this crime that suggest Yosselin knew exactly what she was doing, that she was of sane mind when she committed these horrible murders. The jury agreed with the prosecution when they found her guilty, and they weren't buying her insanity defense either. The evidence will show that the defendant waited until Marina Kram opened that bathroom door before she tried to kill herself, and avoid responsibility for the murders that she

just committed. The evidence will establish that on October 27, 2012, when the defendant woke up in the hospital, at the first opportunity to speak of the unspeakable, the defendant complained about and blames Marina Krim. The evidence will show that in the days, weeks, months, and years, after the murders, during interviews months, and years, after the murders, during interviews with psychologists and psychiatrists, the defendant continued to complain about Marina

and blame Marina Creme for the problems in the defendant's own life. But as in gentlemen, the evidence may suggest to you that the defendant's resentment and rage toward Marina Creme had reached a boiling point by October 25th 2012, and that rage and resentment is the motivation behind the murderous rampage that the defendant went on that day. As you know, the defendant in this case has entered a plea of not responsible by reason of mental disease or defect. But ladies and gentlemen,

the defendant will not meet that burden. She will not meet that burden because what the evidence in this case is born to prove to you is that the defendant acted intentionally and deliberately when she killed Lulu and the oprint. That she understood what she was doing and that she knew that what she was doing was wrong. Nobody could have imagined a horror and devastation. Our actions will have.

Not the crimes, not the family and friends. Nobody saw signs of a serious mental illness because there was no serious mental illness. That's what the jury found in rejecting her defense. That's the way she was sentenced. Yosel and Ortega will spend the rest of her life in prison with no possibility of parole. After her own sentencing, Yoselelin finally spoke to the court. What she said is nearly impossible to hear as she was being spoken over by an interpreter. But there's a lot to unpack. I'm very sorry for everything that happened, but I hope that no one goes through what I have gone through. So many people wished me all the worst. My life is in the hands of God.

I ask for a great deal of forgiveness from God, from Marina, from Kevin. I wish my family, I told my family, I did not feel well." Yossalyn went on to babble about a disagreement she had with Marina in the past while caring for the kids, totally shifting the purpose of her speech from an attempted apology to a ridiculous set of excuses yet again. I just love when a judge speaks to a defendant at a sentencing hearing, and this particular judge had a lot to say. There's no doubt you are untreated mental illness rate, a significant role in your show. But as I say untreated, not because in New York State, because I have services for anyone suffering that problem is to see you know treatment but you fail

and you're failing to fail in care responsible your responsible to see treatment for your mental illness and your return to just said that you're not on medication, you're just whatever belief you have, you don't think you need it, you don't think you need it. That's not what you told probation. Tell probation that you don't feel guilty to many doctors, to see you in a more very sick, that you suffer from depression. It's pretty clear you suffer from major depression, anxiety, disorders. That's pretty clear.

And normally, some of your sufferings, mental illness, commits a crime that they're responsible for, because it's an intention to crime, be new to the wrong, be new to nature and consequences of your act, but that still needs some mitigation. The fact she will never have an opportunity to hurt another child again doesn't make up for the loss of Lulu and Leo Krim Kevin and Marina both spoke at Yosselin's set in sing hearing and the pain in their voices is tangible as Nessie grows up She will be asking Kevin in Maine deep Unanswerable questions about life that most parents avoid talking about with their kids.

But we will try to answer her questions with sensitivity to the best we can. I have no doubt that she will now be in herself through this complicated life with her authentic message, Spawn. Nessie knows from experience that life is not fair, but she is inspired by Julia every day. In way up in the stars, they are inspired by her. The defense set out to destroy what Kevin and I have created in the building, an inspired, happy, thriving family. But she fails. What actually happens is good

offended destroyed her own family. She has destroyed a bride and family once up. She has destroyed any sense of peace they'll ever have. We've seen the true colors of her in her family members because of this. There's a terrible pattern of terrible judgment. And lying to see the people is a way of life for this family. Kevin Krem rehashed points he made at the Children's Memorial Services, focusing much of his impact statement on remembrance of the kids. Though he and Marina continued rebuilding their family after the deaths of Lulu and Leo,

going on to have two more little boys, they can never replace the two tiny individuals that they lost. We are distraught because Lulu and Leo, these beautiful and innocent souls, were only with us for six to two years, respectively, blinks of an eye. We are certainly distraught over how they die, over the terrible violence, the lack of any sense of it all. We miss them so much.

Rain and I already miss the little things the most. We missed picking Leo up out of this crib with a happy mom or dad from him and always a big hug. We missed watching Luke, got our own clothes, helping her with the button or a skirt. We missed holding our hands as we walked down the sidewalk. We missed the time to argue them out of the Mr. Stop become and losing most of the time. We missed taking little walks through the Ramble and Central Park that became great eight corner of these collecting expeditions.

We missed hearing them call out my name and run to me when I got home from work. We missed feeling themselves spinning arms. Felix and Lines have joineding cram in the years since They and their seven cousins got robbed like as he did by the defendant They hear about Luhu in the all the time but they don't get to meet them We have a ritual at home a little subparachute with a gift attached Appears each morning on one of the kids birthdays.

The pair of shoes from Lula in the air drop from the stars. When Felix count his, on his birthday this past fall, he asked us in his earnest way. When he could go up to the stars to meet them. He's a thoughtful and sweet God, and he'll be heartbroken as he grows up and learns the whole story. And yes, I am trying to break your heart. Despite the crims anger and despair over the loss of their children,

they managed to turn the whole tragedy into something good. Not only did they get a law passed in Lulu and Leo's names, they've also created an entire nonprofit organization that grew from the seeds of sadness following their children's deaths. When you hear about us on the news or we come up in conversation, we want you to tell people about the Lululeo Fund and the Choose Creativity Initiative and the 10 principles of creativity. This is the legacy of Lululeo and this is what matters. So this is how you can help us. So Nessie Felix and Linus are here to tell you what the Lululeo Fund and choose creativity you're all about. The Lululeo Fund is a nonprofit pet support creative education.

It was inspired by my sister and brother Lululeo. They love being creative. Choose creativity is our flagship initiative that empowers kids and adults through a curriculum to engage with the 10 principles of creativity, to build resilience, creative confidence, and social emotional skills. The 10 principles of creativity come from some of the fundamental ideas that Kevin and Marina Krem had chosen to instill in their children. They created a curriculum called Choose Creativity that educators can choose to implement in their own educational programs. Out of all the numerous episodes about the murders of children

that we've covered, this family has been unwavering in their effort to make sure their children's memories will not be forgotten. And remain alive and well in the minds of the entire Crim family. Yosselin Ortega did what she did in an attempt to bring Marina Crim down because she was jealous of her and intimidated by the couple's success. What Yosselin did, she did out of envy. But she didn't realize one thing. You simply cannot destroy those with enough ambition to pull themselves out of their own despair

and use it to construct a better life and a better world. Remember that. All of you. Use it to construct a better life and a better world. Remember that, all of you. That does it for another episode of Sword and Scale. Thank you for joining us. Until next time, stay safe. Hey, my name is Georgia and I live in Canada and I listen to your podcast every single day while I work. I listen to about eight hours of it every single day and I am going through all your podcasts

in order again and I'm on episode 65 and I was listening to, gosh, I think her name was Amy. And I realized we had some similarities, but my life. And Amy is when I have had, I really, I kind of coined it to gaslighting and stuff listening to that. And, you know, I really appreciate your podcasts and I've been cooned in to gaslighting and stuff listening to that. And, you know, I really appreciate your podcast

that's made me feel heard and understood and accepted in certain parts, which is really weird to say, because this is a true crime podcast, this murder podcast, and a lot of the stuff that you talk about is really fucked up, but I really resonate and see myself in a lot of your podcasts and your episodes. So I just wanted to say thank you so much and I'm actually going to donate to the show

for the first time. I'm actually in a position where I can afford to and I'm really excited about it just because I hear you every single episode asking for donations and when everything like that rounds so bad that I can't contribute to it. So I just want to say thank you for all your hard work and keep going strong. you you