Sword and Scale - Episode 169

Episode Date: August 28, 2020

We take a break from the standard Sword and Scale format to chat about the current state of law enforcement with ex-police officer and judge Charles Adams from The Truth with Charles Adams on KPRC 950 AM and iHeartRadio.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Sword and Scale contains adult themes and violence and is not intended for all audiences Listener discretion is advised I'm like you're literally six inches away from me you curly headed moron Hello, and welcome to season seven and a surprise episode 169 of Sword and Scale, a show that reveals the worst monsters are real. Okay, so here's what happened. There was a hurricane coming. We didn't put on an episode last week.

There was a lot of other things going on in the background. We don't have to bore you with, but instead of just skipping a week, we decided, hey, you know what? Let's call up my old friend, Charles Adams, and have a discussion about all the goingsons of the world, because there's plenty of goingsons. And let's have just an old-school, old-style, talk-radio format. Let's do that.

How about that? You wanna do that? Well, it doesn't matter if you wanna do it or not, because we're doing it. This is what we're doing. Today, we're going to completely go off the rails and have a discussion about crime and malenforcement and all the things we talked about back in 168 and then a few other things as well. You know, every now and then I look at our iTunes reviews and I'm like, we don't have enough one-stars. So let's just screw it all up.

That's why we're here. And you know what? This episode wasn't supposed to happen anyway. So if you don't like it, just skip it. It's fine. It's fine. It's gonna be fine. We're gonna be back to our old format next week as planned. But if you're one of those diehard fans, it just cannot stop hearing certain scale and the lovely, lovely sounds of my beautiful voice. Well, here you go, congratulations.

This is our gift to you for us not dying in a category for hurricane, which just missed us by the way. We didn't even get like a drop of rain. It just literally just missed us. So we're happy about that. It's unfortunate for everyone else that wasn't its path, but hey, shit happens. All right, with that, let's just get right into it. This is a super long episode. Oh, and it's filled with my personal opinions. So, you're welcome.

Adnan did it. Let's go! Okay, we're living in a dystopian nightmare. I'm not sure if it's actually a nightmare or a sick joke by some hack on Twitter, but here we are. We did an episode a few weeks ago, that was about what was going on at the time. It was timely, it was smart, it was about COVID-19, everyone hated it, and we put it out there, and a lot of you got mad.

A lot of you got mad that we were telling you how things were actually working in the world, rather than selling you the same bullshit you can see on the evening news day after day. Well guess what? We're not the kind of show that tries to appease you and tries to give you exactly what you ask for. This isn't Burger King, like I said before.

We're going to tell you how it is. And if you don't like it, then that's between you and the world. Has nothing to do with us. But you wanna apply it to us. You wanna say you don't like us because we're telling you the truth. Well, that's up to you.

That's your problem, not mine. The one thing we're not gonna do is sit here and lie to you. Sit here and appease you. And your politics and your thoughts tell you you're right. Because a lot of you are not right. Let's face it. A lot of you make pretty poor decisions based on just raw emotion. The fact of the matter is, deep down,

you're trying to do the right thing. Everyone deep down thinks they're doing the right thing. Even when what they're doing is completely immoral and harming others. Well, that's why we're here. God, I sound so angry in that segment. I don't hate you. I love you guys. Well, I love a lot of you guys.

A major percent of you are quite nice. You're not assholes. Like at least 60%. I mean, that's a good, hard 60. The rest of you, you know. So with that said, we had an episode we put out recently, which caused a hell of a response. That episode was 168 about William Heard,

and we use the phrase, don't talk to cops. You can go back and listen to why we said that. Our one-hour justification for it. And here are the entire story for yourself. But we stand by that statement. And today, after surviving the category for Hurricane that was headed towards Houston, we have a little bit of time to explain why. But yeah, no, I love a good 60% of you. Just love you. Just love you to death, to death.

Death. Regardless of that, you can, you know, choose to listen to this or not, listen to this at any moment. So thank you so much. If you're still here and still being offended, here is what we're gonna talk about today. We're gonna play a few clips from calls we had

after episode 168 debuted on the regular feed. For example, here's one of them right now. Yeah, I just wanted to call in and thank you for your podcast. I very much enjoy it. In particular, I'd like to thank you for episode 168. I am a single father to an 11-year-old son, and I think that the information in 168 was extremely important and extremely well-timed.

I listened to parts of the podcast, with my son, and we discussed it, and it is a topic that he and I will be discussing more in the future. Fantastic. Thank you so much. Bye. You see, that's kind of what I expected. That's what a normal person does. They thank you for the information you're providing.

They see that it's something that they didn't have in their existence prior and it helps them in some way. And then they respond accordingly. Here's another one. Hi, good afternoon and greetings from Texas. I'm gonna try to keep this free, but in reference to episode 168, which I just finished listening to,

I felt super compelled to call in and tell you that as a 28 year law enforcement veteran, six of which were spent in criminal investigations, crimes against persons and children specifically, and two of those years spent in internal affairs, I can tell you that you are absolutely fought on 100% correct to never talk to the police. I studied the re-technique, among other techniques, for many, many years before becoming a detective, and even after I continued to follow the teachings, just to keep updated on what it was they were teaching.

And when I left class, I made a promise to myself, to never, ever, under any circumstance, employ that technique whatsoever. I find the behavior and the conduct of those specific detectives to be lazy and affordable and lacking in every bit of investigational intention whatsoever. And thank God in most states, I think goodness, rather, in most states, confession has to be accompanied by physical evidence.

A confession alone will not stand in court, particularly in Texas for that very, very reading. So when you're just wanted to just have been passing episode, kind of makes me miss being a detective a little bit, because I love talking to people. Certainly not ever in that manner, or using that technique.

And just as a side note, my husband is firefighter and I had told him from day one, do not over under any circumstance talk to the police. I mean it and I hope he listens to me, you have a friend, so from that position, you take care and keep up the good work. Bye. Charles Adams from KPRC 950 and other places you're on the television now. Is that is that true? Can I say that? I there is I cannot I'm about to have something new on local television coming up, but I can't say what it is as of yet. And of course, we know you and your voice. You're very discernible voice

from the COVID episode we had here, episode 160, which was one of the most controversial episodes we've ever done on sort of scale. I mean, initially I thought you were gonna say my sexy voice and my feelings will be heard and I'll be somewhat muted for most of the show, but I thought it was arguably the best episode of snow kidding.

I really enjoyed it. It's probably one of my favorite things in media to ever do. I love talking to you. I love having you on my radio program, but it was a lot of fun to do, so I got a lot of positive feedback. So I didn't get any negative.

I guess they saved that for you. Yeah, well, I get a lot of it. Speaking of your sexy voice, I am a big fan for you. Yeah, well, you know, I get a lot of it. Speaking of your sexy voice, I am a big fan of it and you, and I listen to your show all the time on KPRC 950. It's called The Truth with Charles Adams. You can find it on iHeartRadio and everywhere you listen to podcasts.

But I usually listen to it on my phone, and today before this call, I had some time to kill, so I turned on my phone and I played it, and this is what I heard. And I'm like, you're literally six inches away from me. You curly headed morons. Yeah, that was one of my neighbors

that had gotten on my elevator. And elevators are one of the most dangerous places to encounter the COVID-19, because you don't have circulating air, but his dog ran on, which is fine. You're required to be in a leash and it's an expensive building. I live in the penthouse.

Don't get on a car in on me. But with the leash. I don't mind, but it ran. The dog ran up, started licking my louquetsies, which is fine. I was the only way to court it was early. But then he gets right in my face to bend down and I'm like, hey man, you're supposed to wear my ass getting the building

when you're not in your apartment. And he just goes, hey shit on me. And people feel comfortable that they're not gonna get punched in the face. And I was just rude back, but, you know, we disagree maybe. I think that if we would all follow the rules, we would have never had to shut down the economy,

and I wouldn't have lost $150,000 over the last few months. So, you know, I'm passionate about it. There's a lot of punting the face these days. There's a lot of actual violence going on in the streets and a lot of animosity just in general. Like people are just, a couple of different things have happened all at once and people are just pretty angry in a lot of different ways.

One of the things I want to talk about is sort of related to that. I mean, we've seen this sort of violence going on now for months and months and months and animosity mostly directed towards law enforcement. We did an episode last week, episode 168, which was about a young man, an 18 year old William Hurt. He was charged with murdering his 54 year old uncle, Marcus Gullike in June of 2012. Police believe that Gullike was beaten, strangled. His body was placed in the Ohio River sometime in June

and had William Hurt, the 18-year-old that the confession was elicited from, had he been convicted, he would have been sentenced to between 45 to 65 years in prison on the murder charge and from six to 20 years for each of the other charges. Gollicky was homeless and there were reports from his own brother that he was suicidal and had attempted suicide in the past. William Hurt, the teenager who was interrogated for hours and hours to elicit this false confession

was proven not guilty. He had nothing to do with the death of Marcus Galecky. And this entire case is a textbook example of how false confessions can be procured using this weird thing called that I'd never heard of by the way before, because I've actually talked to detectives many times over the last six, seven years. Nobody's ever mentioned the read method

until we found out about it on this particular case. It's kind of sort of a secret. And once we started talking about it on the last episode, we got calls from people that were pissed off, not people, detectives, that were pissed off that we were sort of putting this out there. You have a long history in the criminal justice system. What's your thoughts on this read method? Well, and I'll be honest with you,

I had never heard it referred to as the read method until episode 168, and I will tell you, 168 is so from someone that has, you know, as a police officer and an attorney and a judge, it was very painful for me to listen to. You could tell from the beginning how it was going and it's horrifying. But I was taught interrogation techniques in the police academy back in 1993, 94. interrogation techniques in the police academy back in 93, 94. But it mirrored the read method as it was, you describe it, but it was not called the read method. So that might be one reason why even many law enforcement officers

aren't familiar with the term because it's not a term that you, at least it was never used in any of the coursework I did or subsequent in service training. But I've absolutely used it. But it is something that is formally taught in some way, is there some sort of a- Oh, most certainly. Right, it's taught as an interrogation technique.

And I was always on a patrol officer, but you do take courses both in the academy and in service training. And after you have to take so many hours a year, like a lawyer or an accountant or a doctor to maintain your certification. And I was taught it specifically. Those very terms, those very methods, but it was not called the read method. It was just called interrogation techniques.

Oh, by the way, here is a YouTube video explaining the read method of interrogation techniques. Oh, by the way, here's a YouTube video explaining the read method of interrogation. What is the read technique? The read technique is a method of interrogating suspects in a crime. It is used by many police forces around the world and is particularly popular in the United States. The technique was created by a man named John E. Reed

and his company sells videos and other training materials teaching people the particularities of how to properly use it. This method, which relies on assuming absolute guilt from the very beginning of the interrogation process, has critics who believe that it causes people to confess when they aren't actually guilty. It's been banned in some countries for this reason and is often the subject of major controversy. In the beginning of an interrogation, an individual using the read technique will start by going

through a long explanation of exactly why the suspect is guilty. This is typically run in a very nice and friendly way. The interrogator goes to great lengths to avoid being interrupted by the suspect and tries to force all any denials. The next step is normally to start giving the suspect an out of some kind. For example, in a murder case, the interrogator might envision a scenario where the murder almost seems justified. A police officer using the read technique may even seem to sympathize with the suspect's

hypothetical motives. At the same time, they will generally offer contrasting possible motives that are much worse so that the suspect is more likely to jump on the less incriminating possibility. People trained to resist the read technique will usually try to maintain an atmosphere of total confrontation from the beginning. The person under suspicion doesn't want to fall into the trap of believing that the interrogator is his or her friend. The general idea is to challenge any assertions and immediately turn everything into an argument. In some cases, it's even recommended that the person under interrogation should personally insult the interrogator so that the atmosphere turns as hostile as possible.

Some say the read technique is an unjust way to interrogate people. It's been blamed for many false confessions, especially among juveniles in those with mental handicaps. There are also plenty of people who favor the technique, and they generally stress the fact that it's only used when investigators are nearly certain that the person being questioned is guilty. And Mike, a long time listening, currently a police officer out on the West Coast, just got done listening. We're in the middle of listening episode 168. And it's a little disturbing with how you introduced it.

Some good advice. But at the same time, being in in law enforcement it's hard enough to in our job and somebody like you stop and off about not talking to the cops. You know, it's good to order advice. But what about those pedophiles, what about those murderers, what about those people who commit assaults, what about their victims? You didn't do them any justice. You didn't help them at all.

I might want to rethink that next time you start thinking that you're going to start changing people's minds. I'll continue to listen, but I might want to rethink your whole bowl here, maybe in life, and doing this podcast, be neutral. Don't start leaning one way or the other. Be neutral. Thanks. So, there was a time, and I remember this.

I was working on ship patrol, but I had to hold over for four hours, which means I had to work till mid-morning the next day because someone had called in sick and a 12-year-old girl had made an outcry at her junior high that her stepfather had paid her to watch porn with him and then forced and perform oral sex. So you take the alcohol report, you go to school, you talk to the teacher, I think it was a counselor she said too, then I talked to her and I take her to Texas Children's and then I just do the initial report as a police officer, as a patrol officer.

I got to work the next evening. I came early because I had left straight from law school to go to work and when I got there to female detectives, one detective sergeant and one detective, we're trying to interrogate the suspect who they had just recently picked up. I watched them do it from outside for about an hour. They were getting nowhere. He was from Mexico, very macho, and they were trying to intimidate him. And he just wasn't having

it. So I asked them if I could have a shot at it after about an hour, and I went in there and talked to him and agreed with him how attractive and older his 12 year old stepdaughter stepdaughter looked and how. I don't know if I could control myself and held his hand. That must have been. That must have been so. Oh yeah. And then he gave it all up admitted to it. We caught the mother screaming at the daughter outside in the Sally Port and she bonded him out and they fled back to Mexico with a child. A horrible story, but I did manipulate him into a confession, but I believe it was a sincere confession because he gave a tremendous number of details on what he did to that young girl, and it was absolutely horrifying.

Jesus. There is that sort of aspect to it. We've all heard that, you know, the term's good cop bad cop, and that is actually a way to coerce someone into confessing by having this psychological manipulation taking place in that room. But this seems to go way further into a land that's a little gray about what's okay and what isn't. One of the statistics that I saw was 42 to 55% of suspects will confess during an interrogation in the US. Now, are 42 to 55% of suspects guilty? Or is there something else going on here? How many of these people are being manipulated? How many of these people are below average IQ or perhaps under the influence or have some other psychological ailment that is being exploited to elicit a confession. And how many of these detectives just kind of want to go home and get this over with and put this person in jail and don't really care if they did it or not.

I don't think that it's they don't care and they just want to go home. Instead, I think it's very early on to decide what they believe happened, even if it's not supported by actual evidence or circumstantial evidence, they just think that their instinct has led them to the right suspect and they rationalize everything they do to achieve the goal of charging the person they believe did it.

The problem is human beings are fallible and they get it wrong. It's also hard for people that have it bid in that circumstance to understand why anyone would give a false confession, because you asked the average citizen, they'd be, well, why would you ever say you did it if you didn't do it? But the fact is that when you sit in that room and actually, when at 168, four hours isn't a long time. There are situations like the, what is a Central Park 5, where they kept them for tens of hours. And it is, you know, there's a mixture of brutality and friendliness and coercion that creates this entire snowball that

just runs out of people, get to the point psychologically, and obviously it's far easier to manipulate people with low IQs or mental retardation or other deficiencies. But there are very intelligent people that just get overwhelmed with the desire to give the government what they want to hear, so they will stop just destroying them in a room and like in one sixty-eight the kid didn't know he could just say how i want to leave or how i want a lawyer and they have to stop

and it was i mean it was really disgusting and a lot of officers need to listen to one sixty eight and fact i had a lot to blow smoke up your ass but i do think it would tremendously help officers who labor under the misconception that people don't falsely confess and i think a lot of citizens should listen to a two especially before jury

service because you do have people people people when people serve as a juror on a felony they want to give the government even though it's beyond a reasonable doubt this extreme burden the state allegedly has your natural instinct as that the type of citizen that shows up for jury duty is to be the type of citizen that wants to give the government what they are wanting which is a conviction which is why it's so very

incredibly difficult to obtain the opposite and uh... yeah i mean it's i'd like is, it was very hard to listen to, but very educational. Well, listen, you can blow as much smoke up my ass as you want. You know, I, I, I welcome it. I like smoke up my ass. It's fun. But I think that's part of it, too.

That's, that's part of the, the interrogation techniques that are used. It's, it's sort of like, there's, it's in within human nature to, if you're sitting across from another human being, to try to please them in some way. And so when you have this one-on-one conversation with this detective that's sort of like trying to be your friend, but also has, you know, some demands from you and trying to elicit something from you, there's this natural instinct to try to try to please that person by giving them what they want.

It's part of like just human nature, I think. Right. And it's hard. It's hard, especially if you've grown up as a law-abiding citizen like the kid did clearly. It's hard for you, even when they're they're brow beating you and calling you a murderer in a liar, it's hard to see the law enforcement as the bad guys. And they were very clearly the bad guys in this situation. And it's sad and it's horrifying. And it's something you could ever get. I had a case as a criminal defense attorney where there was a very popular tattoo place

on 59 in Houston called Degas. There was a shooting, a murder in the parking lot. And my guy's brother had went in there and filled out the paperwork and him and his brother were outside in the parking lot waiting for their tattoo. They were African-American and the murderer was African American, but the similarities ended there. But when the cops showed up on the Warren at their house, they started tearing up the house, part of the apartment. And my guy got the red ass. You know, he got pissed off because they were tearing up his shit. How can I say that? Can I curse on here if I

didn't? Sure he can. Of course, I curse all the time like a truck sure okay um but anyhow so they ended up just taking some denim shorts and a white t-shirt because that's what the murder was wearing and follow my guy for murder and he sits in jail is grandmother paying me from New Orleans murders take a long time to get in trial he sat there actually longer than the eight months of the kid of 16 he sat there for almost a year and a half. And there was a video tape from the parking lot, which the police would not give the Dispraternities office. And finally, we got to the point where I got the judge mad enough and he said, you know, if it's not here on Monday, you know, this case is over, they finally

produced the video completely clear that it was not my guy. This was just some HPD detectives trying to close a case and mad at my guy for being rude to them when they were serving a warrant. And he was really rude to them, but wouldn't you be if people were tearing apart your apartment? So there are some just, there's awful placing out there. I think it's the exception and the anomaly, but you know, socks and think of this kid that has uncle committed suicide. He gets in Terry. I think sits in jail for a year. You never get those eight months of your life back. And jail is not a pleasant

place. And it can have long term PTSD on you, especially if you're innocent. I mean, it's hard breaking. Yeah. Tell me about it. Um, if you're a bit of mean, it's hard breaking. Yeah, tell me about it. Have you ever been to jail, Mike? Can I ask you that? Yeah, no, yeah, no. There was an incident where I was pulled over at one point and I was charged with a DUI and I spent a night in jail. Well, I am sorry for asking that.

I didn't want to listen. I figured the answer was no. I've never been to a real estate with surprises. I'll put until then and hopefully, way after then, until the rest of my my life there will never be another instance of that And that was because I cut an old person off And they followed me for seven miles after that and that's what happens in Miami angry drivers But but but but I'll tell you what it was the worst night of my life It's awful

Did you imagine doing it eight months when you know you're innocent or someone like Michael Morton here in Texas? And it's not just, it's not just that. It's the probably years of trying to litigate and get out of that and like, you know, do all your community service and whatever. After that, it doesn't go away.

Once you get stuck in that system, you know, you get, you find yourself in the clause of that system, you are in for a ride and there's nothing you can do about it. We're going to talk more about that in just a second, but before we do, let's take a quick break. Here's a call from a mom, as a mom, being a mom. Hi, I just finished listening to episode 168 and I just want to thank you as a mom of two teenage boys. I am going to force them to each listen to this episode because I think it is so important for them.

To understand, to never talk to beliefs and to always get a lawyer. Thank you so much. Goodbye. How you doing Charles? Man, you know, I survived as we both did, the hurricane here in Houston. I'm very sick of this pandemic economic shutdown. I have to go spend quarantine for two weeks overseas next month. I'm just full of first world problems. What are you doing overseas? We have to get into that for a second.

What are you doing overseas during quarantine what are you doing i am going with my young is to starting his master's degree in a foreign country oh i'm going to we have to spend two weeks in quarantine in that country before i can spend a week getting into his apartment and then coming back home have you thought of maybe not doing that at all? That's it.

I mean, both my kids are very, very smart and academically very, very successful. He's excited about a very top tier program and a top tier school, a global school. And if I could go live in a foreign land on my father's dime when I was young, I would have done it. I didn't grow up with that circumstance, you know, if I could go live in a foreign land on my father's dime when I was young, I would have done it. I didn't grow up with that circumstance, but his his pen house apartment is costing me

a thousand dollars a week. Wow. So it's yeah, but I love him. He's a sweet kid. He graduated from undergrad and a top 10 university in three years, five out of capa. So you know, I want to facilitate his dreams. That's why I work all the time and have all these jobs. I don't know. You. Yeah. It makes sense, I want to facilitate his dreams. That's why I work all the time and have all these jobs

You yeah, yeah, it makes sense. You want to I mean you do everything for your ducks, right? I mean your ducks you know no bounds It's kind of the same thing. All right, that's enough of that. Let's leave my ducks out of this You know it's funny because we're living in a time now where It seems to be a changing of the guard and the young people of today are telling the old boomers to go to hell in a lot of different scenarios. You know, mentioned earlier about how, you know, these cops in these situations of interrogation, they've rationalized what they're doing because they've picked aside, they've picked a narrative and because they are so sure about that being true, everything else that comes after that is justified.

And we're seeing that in major cities today uh... it we've seen it just yesterday i mean at the time of this recording in was constant uh... do you have anything to say about what's going on in the world right now in terms of well you're referring to a connocia was constant in cal written house yeah jika blake that's correct i think i think there are a lot of conservative pundits who don't understand the law, who are arguing that Kyle written house was

legally justified in all three of the shootings he's accused of in West Concert. I've done a bit of research on it. And it also I'm very aware of the applicable Texas law. So if he had Texas, if he had some actual relationship with the business that the alleged arsonist was trying to burn the card dealership, he could probably use deadly force at night if the person was on the property. But it's very narrow and it would just be

a defense to prosecution, not a defense to being charged or anything. Wait, so you're saying that he has to have some sort of relationship with the business that he's trying to protect from being brought to the ground. Right, you can as a citizen, just go up and shoot a guy that you think is an arsonist, even if he's actually an arsonist. You couldn't do that in Texas, you most certainly couldn't do it in Wisconsin. Now can you go up and beat a guy

that's protecting a business with a gun? Oh no, did you see the horrible story about the employee, the elderly employee of the mattress store in Kenosha, who was just using a fire extinguisher to try to run the arsonist out, and put out the fire and someone bashed him with a bottle and left him on the ground,

and then people were trying to protect him while other, while quote unquote protestors rioters were in fact, being, you know, trying to rationalize this beating of this 73 year old man. No, there's disgusting criminality going on that the mainstream media is saying is just protest. And if you'll look at the bill of rights, mostly peaceful, though, you have a right to peaceful, right? You have a right to the peaceful. Right, you have a right to peacefully assemble.

And while there are people that are being peaceful and there are people that merely want to see paradigmatic change in policing in America, there's also a number of people that are discussing criminals, victimizers that are exploiting the situation to their own ends and trying to disrupt Americanism and we are the greatest country in the world and we have our problems that need to be fixed but this anti-Americanist movement is frightening and but the problem is this young

man written house and he's legally at 17 he's reached his majority for the criminal laws in Wisconsin so he's an adult. He had no legal right to shoot some guy even if that guy was throwing a Molotov cocktail and engaged in the group that was committing arson in Kenosha. And if you instigate violence in almost every state in the union you're waving the right to self-defense. So while if you look at the video that shows the other guys, clearly one guy was trying to sucker him into lowering his weapon so he could shoot him, the guy that ran out shot in the arm, and the other guy was, it appears, was throwing a mall self-cocked out of some

other device. There's a guy hitting him with a skateboard. Right, that's the first. Right. Attack. And the written house has, but at that point, because he in the instigated the violence by shooting the person off the video, he very well may have waved his right to self-defense.

I do have to take a minute to correct the record right here. All three of the alleged victims that written house shot were criminals with extensive rap sheets. Two of them had charges of sexual assault in their history, violent sexual assault. One of those was against a minor. Yes, a pedophile, allegedly. These are not innocent protesters. And Rittenhouse was out there that night trying to protect local businesses.

Whether you agree with that or not, that's irrelevant. There is video evidence that they were shots fired before Rittenhouse fired his weapon. Hey, we're just waiting for this all to come out and you don't start to write and start burning down cities in the meantime because things aren't going your way. That's not how it works in America. That's not at least how it should work in America.

But then, I'm just an immigrant. Why would you listen to me? This whole abolish prison, so we don't really mean a ballast prison for just saying a ballast prison. Or defund police, we don't really mean defund police, we're just saying. A lot of those are just radicalized extremists that live in this naive world of a utopia that doesn't require, that there aren't monsters out there, as you would say. Of course, there are, and they need to have consequence. I contrast that on my show where you, the young woman that was kidnapped and raped and murdered

for while jogging in Arkansas last weekend. There is true evil out there and I do think our law enforcement should stop focusing on the war on drugs. I think we should just end that completely. I don't care if people want to ingest drugs, let them. It is, we have a real what we're seeing in quote-unquote criminal justice reform now is letting down victims of violent crime because we as Americans are being, we somehow deserve to be a victim or that our victimizers are in fact, you know, because of their poverty,

other reasons, they're justified. Are they righteous? They're able to do whatever they want because, you know, we're the aggressors. We're the, as anyone that has any success at all, anyone that has ever worked for anything and has built something. If you have a nicer home than someone walking down the street, chanting Black Lives Matter with their fist in the air,

they want to take over your home because you're privileged. You just got to let them do it. I mean, that is extremist. I mean, there are people that are chaining Black Lives Matter that truly believe we do have a disparate, although we have a larger amount in gross numbers of violence towards white male Americans by police. We have a disparate amount of violence towards

when you look at per capita basis towards black males, people of color by police. I mean, there are things that need to be fixed. The war on drugs. Everyone uses drugs at the same rate, like every race, every socioeconomic demographic, but it disparately impacts people of color. And it just cannibalizes the intellectual capital of America by locking people up and down.

Well, President, it does not actually affect people of color because people of color, And it just really affect people of color because people of color, if statistically the crime rate is much higher based upon just race if you look at it statistically. Well, it depends on the crime, right? You do have per capita a larger amount of certain times of violent crime committed by men of color, right? But when you also qualify for poverty at a great number or other variables, that kind of dissipates.

And there is a economic legacy to Jim Crow. There is an economic legacy to slavery. And we can act like there's not, but there is. And you know, there's, I mean, there are things that we need to change, but the real problem in American policing is two very simple things that no one cares about and no one wants to hear. Like if you listen to Chesa Bowd when the son of a radicalized terrorist who is now the DA in San Francisco, true story, it's crazy. He really wants people to believe that if you're a middle class, you and you are victimized by robbery or burglary

by people that are poor, you deserve it and there shouldn't be a prosecution and that's insane. It's absolutely insane. You don't fix criminal justice reform by turning your back on victims. And most importantly, victimization is almost always racially and socio-economic in Modgis. So when you stop protecting victims, you are actually allowing people of color to be more victimized and poor color to be more victimized and and poor people to be more crazy.

Yeah, that is exactly the point that I'm trying to make with, not just episode 168, but this particular conversation we're having right now, if you eliminate law enforcement from these impoverished communities, these people that have no way to protect themselves, other than the government and the existing system of law in order that we have in this country, you are doing a disservice to the poorest, most impoverished people in this country. I was a police officer in a overwhelmingly minority, overwhelmingly poor part of Harris County. And I, I mean, I was a, I'm like, I was actually a phenomenal police officer. I believed in Windows down policing.

I knew almost everyone in my patrol area. With a sexy voice as well. Yeah, I was younger. I probably wasn't as deep and resonant. But I mean, I just really, I have made a bunch of friendships that I still have today. And the thing is, most poor people, are wonderful people who are trying to find

an avenue out of poverty, whether they're immigrants or, they're been Americans for generations. And it doesn't matter what color they are. There are more poor, per capita, there is a disparity with people, color versus what there are in gross numbers. There are more white people in poverty,

tremendously larger numbers than any other category. And they also, if you narrow for impoverished white Americans, their crime rate mirrors the crime rates of other people, of other demographics, right? So, I mean, the real thing is we need to protect poor people from victimization. We then, we also need to provide them a platform for success. Like, poor kids that go to quote unquote, rough schools

and it's seen as a bad thing to succeed at school, they suffer, right? And there's not, and when you limit discipline for virtue signaling or identity politics reasoning, which the Obama administration did, the rock-abombed it, a bunch of great things to be also, just like every president, a bunch of bad things, and some of the decision-making made

for federal education rules really put young men and women of color that were in poverty school districts in danger, because their victimizers weren't being punished. And that's the same thing with police departments. You have to punish victimize now if your house gets broken into it, if your car gets broken into it, if something gets stolen, the police just take a report and do nothing, right? But we spend so much law enforcement energy on the war on drugs, so much on device crimes,

and then, and honestly, like I was the presiding judge for a city, right? And I would constantly have the city council want to talk to me about the revenue generated by my court. And I had a mayor that backed me and I just, you know, I'm not talking to y'all about that. That's not my goal is to generate money. My goal is to, you know, facilitate justice. But that is how so many almost all cities and counties balance their budgets in America right now

is by the regressive tax of citation. So you're incentivizing police officers to spend their days instead of fighting crimes, to target people with tic-tac tickets and tic-tac citation-based revenue nonsense. And we've seen they target Hispanic people in black Americans more than white Americans. It's truth people don't wanna believe it, but but they do well how do you fix it well we're

gonna get into how to fix it but you at least right now we can all agree that we all want some legalized marijuana up in this bitch please we're gonna take a quick break really right yeah we're gonna take a quick break here but in the meantime here's a teacher with an open mind Hey, my question is Sarah from Panama City, Florida. Just want to let you know I just listened to episode 168 And it was so informative that I'm gonna be including it as part of my curriculum and my American lit class Where we are doing unit on The criminal justice system and any American justice system,

super informative, learned a lot, scary, but fantastic. Keep up the good work. Thanks. Alright, we're back with Charles Adams from the Truth with Charles Adams on I Heart Radio, KPRC950AM, and several other TV appearances that he can't talk about super secret. But alright, it's time to fix it. I mean, you and me right now, two podcasters pretty much, one smarter than the other. I mean, mind's a as well show no big deal You make a lot more money doing it like I still have the lawyer, but you know, I'm on the actual radios I'm just kidding. Oh, the casting is the podcasting is the future like when people and you do hear radio guys

Try to be pompous about radio versus podcasting and then I say well, you, every professional podcast I know makes far more money than all of you. So, you know, what are you gonna do? But how will that is true? Anyhow, so you wanna talk about how we fix American, well, we can argue about who's smarter there, you know, based on revenue. Okay, you don't have to do anything all of a week except a podcast.

And you have a full staff work, you know, the podcast. I am a partner in two law firms. I don't I can't even count him and I own a consulting firm. I got to do all this crap just to keep up with you and you basically play with ducks and sit around with your beautiful better half. I mean we're gonna admit you're very fee and also a better looking. You are far better looking right. I mean I could take you. First off, you are far better looking, right? I mean, I could take a fist fight between the two of us would not last very long. I'm gonna give myself that. There you go.

But you are, you are one way in there. You gotta have something. You gotta, I gotta cling to something, right? All right. But, yeah, so when we talk about American policing, so I was on TV talking about either written house or Blake a few times this week. And there was a Hispanic activist who kept saying we just need to reform policing and stop the white patriarchy and it and just had all these buttons words and I kept asking

him well how do you think we should reform policing because he's one of those abolish and defund the policeman and it's but they never have anything substantive to say at least a lot of them and no when it's not the white patri have anything substantive to say, at least a lot of them. And no, when it's not combined. It's not just the white patriarchy. You start there and then like, let's see how stupid you sound. It doesn't make any sense when you start going into these buzzwords from certain parts. I think it's they don't understand what they're saying, right? And a lot of people on the, it's both the right and the left, because the right has their whole,

they just a tide of buzzwords that are equally meaningless. And no one wants to have real conversations. And no one wants to recognize that the extremist on both sides, like soy cuck is that one of the words? Soy cuck. I had a guy called me a cuck today. Yesterday he told me that he supported anti-petaphilia efforts by subscribing to Alex General's podcast. Called that an anti- pedophilia efforts by subscribing to Alex Jones' podcast.

Called that an anti pedophilia. It's like, bro. Reptilean pedophilia. Yeah, absolutely. I was like, you know, and I love you. It's one of those guys that will call you a cuck on Instagram. It reminds me of Big Angry Law if anybody wants to check it out. But then when you meet them, I love meeting those people in real life.

I'm like, hey, you know, remember when you were talking about this or that? And you're looming over them at seven feet tall. And I'm usually running with a crew of like very gangster-y looking guys too. So they never have anything to say. Check out Charles' Instagram, by the way. He's not playing around. I do have a fun Instagram.

It is, it is, you know, it was my first social media. Despite being at Harvard Law School when they set up the Facebook at the college, and in my smile, you know, I was just like, that's stupid. It just went on with my life for 14 years before I ever reconsidered that I was stupid for not being on social media.

But, you know, all these people that just, we just need a abolished police. You know, What planet, right? And what planet do we live in, where there aren't evil people out there that need consequence for their evil? Right. The thing is we need to stop negative interactions with police, with good people. And you stop that by saying, when you say the war on drugs, people that go to the cartel and meth,el and math and but it's almost overwhelming just mules we're just trying to get some money they're not involved in violence and over i mean almost all drug arrests are just people that want to get high

and if you take drugs and commit a crime well you should be held responsible if you take drugs and ignore your children you should be held responsible i'm you take drugs and ignore your children, you should be held responsible. I'm not saying you should be able to get away with crimes because, but why should we fill our prison with people that want to do a little cocaine? I've never done cocaine because I'm scared that I'll like it. But why would it make me an evil person if I did? Well, I still managed all my responsibilities. I'll tell you what. It seems to me, if you just look at, if you step back

and you look at it objectively, it feels like what's happening is you have sort of lazy policing, or lazy law enforcement in a way. Right, right, because what would make more sense? What would solve the drug problem in America and the world? Would it be to shut down the producers of these drugs completely, the hardcore ones like cocaine and crack and methamphetamines and just prevent the production completely if that were possible?

Let's just say in a perfect world, if you could shut down the production of those things, instead of going after every single addict that fell into that trap, same thing with all sorts of other things like that, all sorts of other criminal activities. Wouldn't it be, wouldn't it make more sense to go after the guy that's producing the pedophile photographs and videos and child trafficking and sex trafficking and Instead of everyone else that may be you know downloading an image on the internet See I disagree there. I think where you're engaged in victimization of children I think they all need to go to prison and in fact under the prison because I don't think they can be fixed But like let's say adult prostitution, who are we to say a woman can't sell her vagina

or a man can't sell his dick? Why do we care? Why should we be involved in it? As long as they're not being forced to do it, you know, human traffic, why do we care? It's the same thing with drugs. You are low. It's about low-living fruit. Our cops are breast people who just did a search

way too many cars. Our finding follows are we wrong, should be rolling over in their graves as we trample the Bill of Rights to facilitate the war on drugs. For absolutely no damn reason, right? And we should just get out of that business. Now, when I accept like, methamphetamine and fentanyl and all that. But if you legalize all these other drugs and people can just go get it at a store, at a reasonable price where almost all the money goes to the federal government for taxes, for treatment programs and better schools

and more opportunity for Americans. Why would you go buy a pill that could maybe kill you like fentanyl when you can just go get a pill that's just gonna make you feel loopy for a while at a regular store. Why would you go by meth when you could just go get Adderall or speed? Why would you go by cocaine that had a bunch of rat poison in it? When you just go get regular cocaine and the sad thing is, people want that we have America has an appetite for drugs. I love to drink. If they legalize and I don't break the law, you know, I was a policeman.

I was a judge. I just don't, but I went to Seattle with my son had an externship with Amazon a couple of years ago for Christmas. And I got me one of those pins and I was smoking out. I got my wife some addables. She ate them. She'd never done any drugs and she looked at me and said, I can tolerate you so much better when I mean one of these chocolates. And you know, we got a Jamaica, I've got some friends from Jamaica, literally last time

I was in Jamaica, we're sitting on the beach in the grill and a guy showed up with a garbage bag and I'm not talking about a white kitchen bag. I'm talking about picking up leaves in the fall size bag of marijuana and just gave it to us. So, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, your friend, your friend of mine, this DJ Jillian here, he just said, and you know, and guess what, we all had a magical time all weekend to make it.

And we need to, we just need to get out of the business of telling people how to live their lives and refocus policing on catching people that are breaking into our cars, raping women, killing people, hurting people, that's all police should do. You know, you just made me- You just made me rethink my argument because I was arguing for stopping the production

of things and then you brought up alcohol and I realized, oh yeah, prohibition. That didn't really work, did it? No, it's insane. And don't you like to drink? I have no idea. I like to drink. I know that when me and you go to dinner, I'm oobring, right? Because I'm gonna get fucked up. Oh, yeah, we both thought they were going to spit out of that dinner. How is it any, how is it any

different? Right. In fact, as a police officer, when I was a police officer, you know, what Drunks want to do, they wanted to fight me, which was always fun, because I was sober, and I got these hands, you know, but people that are stone This is the interaction with someone that's stoned on marijuana as a police officer knock on the door They answer the door with a ball in their hand and I said hey, man, you know, I'm gonna just not see the ball I don't care. Could you please turn your stereo down? It's bothering the neighbors. Yeah, dude man I'm so sorry. Thanks for being cool. No problem. And then I never have to interact with that guy again.

Drunks that are being violent or committing domestic violence is all the time. But we're not talking about outlawing beer because we did that and it was stupid. It's just like it's stupid to make marijuana illegal. And it's really only illegal, I need to be a conspiracy guy, because big farm doesn't know how to monetize it. Period. Right, so you think it's just to get back to the subject here. I need to be a conspiracy guy because big farm doesn't know how to monetize it period.

Right. So you think it's just to get back to the subject here. You think it's basically a... The problem has to do with the amount of assets we have available as opposed to what's required from those assets. So if we just stopped prosecuting these drug convictions, we'd have a whole lot more policing to do in other aspects of much more serious issues,

much more serious crimes. And we'd stop- But even little crimes, even little crimes like theft that don't get prosecuted, but more importantly, cops every time they pulled over a car with people of color it would stop immediately treating them like suspects because of the possibility they might have drugs when cops don't give a damn about drugs unless you're driving under the influence they're not searching every sixteen or seventeen year old black kids car and we can pretend that doesn't happen

in America but it does and it's horrifying and it creates this Discord between police and people of color. It's all to blame for the war on drugs. And I'm gonna give you stop it I'm gonna give you one more chance one more opportunity. Let's put it that way to Change my mind about something that I think is causing a lot of this disparity, as you say, with white cops killing people of color and during traffic stops and whatnot. There's a lot of personal responsibility being emphasized, being placed on the law enforcement officials about what they can and cannot do, even when a suspect is reaching into his car after being ordered by multiple officers with their guns drawn to stop and get on the ground, but it continues

to do so anyway. And there's a lot of criticism about what just happened in this particular case because of that. But there doesn't seem to be a lot of personal responsibility placed on anyone that's being pulled over. And one of the things that I think would solve a lot of these problems and would, if you truly believe, if you truly in your heart feel that Black Lives Matter, then one of the most important things I think we can do as a society is inform and educate everyone that if you are pulled over, if you are in the process of being arrested, if there's four or five or one cop with his gun drawn, ordering you to do something, you at that moment do not have the option to ignore his commands, ignore what they're

saying, and do whatever the hell you want. Because that is how you die. Now, no, I will agree with a lot of that. In fact, I used to pretty regularly meet with kids at their parents request and talk to them of any color. Right? Have any social media? There's not something I charge anything for

and would talk to them about how to appropriately act when law enforcement you're engaging or interact with law enforcement particularly mainly in a traffic stop and actually had a lawyer in texas compare that to me suggest that was just like me telling women they shouldn't wear a short skirt to not get raped and of course course there's your mansplaining. Right. No, and I just want to help kids be okay because a lot of times you've done it.

And I will tell you the closest I ever came to shooting someone. Was it last time I was on the air with you? No, it was not. I'm sorry about what I'm back in the night as well as a cop. A convenience store got robbed and the a purple geometro with a license plate was given as the people that were fleeing and it was three Hispanic males and a vehicle. I pull over, blocks away on Avenue A. I remember this purple geometro with the same three letters and numbers in the license plate.

And I walk out of it's dark road, we've gone out, tell them to put their hands up, Montessori, and I'm sorry. Can you say that again? What, where do you want me to start from? Did you say Montessori? Montessori, I put your hands up. Montessori, but.

Okay, come on, man. I mean, you'd say I worked in an area that was a lot of Spanish speakers. But I'm talking to the driver and I see the glint of metal in the hand of the back seat passenger and it's at his waist. And I turn on him and I swear to God, I almost shot him. And the idiot was just trying to put on his seat belt

and another officer, Mike Powers, at that that very moment stop the same purple geometro with the same three letters and numbers in the license plate going in the opposite direction with the real actual robbers in it these guys were completely innocent and almost killed a guy because he wasn't following my instruction because he was worried about getting a traffic ticket for not wearing a seatbelt. Well, the fact that the word is a hurryba instead of a rebay, they have had something to do with that. He spoke English dammit. I tried to cover my bases. Alright, you know, I can talk and almost get through an entire traffic stop in spanglish. You know, you don't have to lord that over me. And don't you all speak Castilian Spanish in Cuba? I was opposed to Mexican Spanish. Don't speak.

Well, no, don't, don't Cuban speak a very different Spanish than the spoken in Mexico. Am I wrong about that? I don't know. I always love having you on. You are, you are, I'm a big fan, like I said, you're the best. And always full of incredible practical Life lessons and legal knowledge and and a whole lifetime of it. So we're always happy to have you Love talking to you. What love to be on your show again at some point

I'm fine at you 30 times and you've told me no. Let's not lie to the listeners. You are always welcome on my show. Always, I would rather just do a show every day with you because it'd be a lot easier and I could make my money without putting any effort into it. So there we have it on record. Thank you for having me on tonight though. I love this show. You've got the best podcast other than my wife's,

Clustin, if you check it out. You've got the best true crime podcast in the world. Thank you so much. Say hi to cat for me and thank you for being on and uh... we'll uh... we'll have uh... that steak dinner soon help my treat we gotta do it you just let me know in fact we could go just meet me and your better half and my better half and you can stay home are you don't have to be there you know whatever you want to do better I'm sure you would like that. Talk to you later, child.

I was a treat. Take care. Just a... Alright, well that's it. We hope you liked it. If you didn't, you know what? We didn't have to do this. I stayed up right now.

I'm looking at the clock. It's 1.38 in the morning So you don't like it. Hey, go listen to crime junkie and stay safe Hey Mike, this is Sandra calling from Oregon, not Portland, so please don't put me in the same category as that. I just wanted to call and tell you how much I love your show. Been watched or sorry I've been listening to Sword and Scale since the beginning and love it.

Got all my coworkers to listen to it and my family and my friends and I look forward to all the deeptos right now. As I'm working on all my F2 projects, I'm sitting here listening to all of them from the beginning again. So I'll keep up the good work and keep those shows coming. I love them.

Thanks. Bye. Hi, Sardin scale. This is Nina. I'm calling from Washington State. I just want to say how much I love the podcast. I just missed listening to episode 168 about interrogation. And honestly, there was so much information in there

that I didn't even know about police interrogation. And it was so eye-opening. So thank you for sharing that because I think it's important to know your rights and to know that you're going to be safe going into a situation where people might be promising to keep you safe, but that's not always the case. So thanks for everything you guys do. Keep it up.

I love the podcast. 1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1-1.5-1. I'm going to be a little bit more careful. How are you, man? Good. I survived that thing that came through. How you know that? A horrible thing. We were in the pen house for Harvey. It was neat. We even had to water get into one of the roads roads but it was neat to watch from up here but this was boring like I moved

my fucking smoker and my fucking grill in from the balcony for fucking in all the furniture people are pissed that's what it is people are pissed that he moved shit that they didn't need to move and they don't have nothing got to move it back and that guy and the island that boarded shit up and I had a meteorologist tell me like midday yesterday yeah this is not going to be anything don't worry about it my secret is like left early on Tuesday and didn't work Wednesday and like but no fucking people yeah we've monetized we We've monetized, we've monetized outrage and we've monetized excitement. We monetized fear. Yeah. Right.

And the fucking worst storm and the fucking hill, you're 650 miles across. I think I killed one person, I'm 14 year old girl, which is sad. But one fucking person in late Charles, It's usually just like an elderly person that's outside standing under a tree for no reason. Yeah, the tree fell into the girls' room. I mean, it was a pretty good place. Yeah, that sucks. Yeah, what are you gonna do?

Thanks for bringing down the home mood, there, Charles. Yeah, there you go. you