Sword and Scale - Episode 176

Episode Date: December 20, 2020

We’re all looking forward to retirement, when we can finally cash out all of our hard-earned savings and live off of it until we die. That’s the hope, at least. Joel Guy Senior and his wife Lisa Guy had just sold their house in Knoxville Tennessee and were preparing to move to a new home in Surgoinsville in December of 2016. They had no idea that Thanksgiving of 2016 would not only be the last holiday celebrated at their old Knoxville home, but it would be the last holiday they’d ever celebrate together.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Sword and Scale contains adult themes and violence and is not intended for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised. There were many blood spots in different areas throughout the home and there were also multiple dismembered body parts and various rooms throughout the home. Hello and welcome to season 7 episode 176 of Sword and Scala show that reveals that the worst monsters are real. But we seem to have a theme going here about entitlement. I wonder why that is. Anyway, you're going to enjoy this one. It's filled with all the blood and guts you weirdos like. Just a fair warning, this is the last episode of season 7.

We won't be back until next year. Details at the end of the show. Thank you for supporting us. Thank you for buying merchandise. Thank you for joining Plus. We love all of you guys. We hope you have a wonderful wonderful holiday season, whatever your religious denomination is or isn't and we'll catch you on the flip side in 2021. In November of 2016, 28-year-old Joel Guy Jr. drove back to his home in Baton Rouge, Louisiana after a long and relaxing Thanksgiving weekend. He usually alternated holidays because the truck up to Knox County, Tennessee, where

his parents lived, was long and boring. Every other year, he'd drive up for Christmas, and on alternating years, he drove up for Thanksgiving. This weekend in 2016 was particularly special, though. It'd be the last time Joel's parents and the rest of the extended family would spend together in the house on golden-view lane. Joel Guy Sr and his wife Lisa Guy were preparing for retirement. All of their children surrounded them to celebrate this new chapter in their lives. Joel Guy Sr had daughters from a previous relationship, but when he married Lisa, they had their own son together, Joel Jr. Though Lisa guy was a

stepmother to her husband's children, the family meshed well. Joel and Lisa had been married for over 30 years, and the patchwork family was very close knit. Lisa's been in my life my entire life, and it said it three, but she's been my entire memory. This is Michelle, one of Joel Guy's seniors three daughters. Because Lisa and Joel Guy's senior married when Michelle was just a toddler, she really had been there as a mother figure to the girls for nearly their entire lives. And so we would go in the summers, we'd have it for a month in the summer because they

always lived so far away and Angela and I would go visit for the a month in the summer because they always lived so far away. And Angela and I would go visit for the entire month. But the dynamics of that was my mom was a single mom. So there's struggles with single moms, but when we went to Lisa's house, her cabinets were stocked with food. And she greeted dad like the perfect Walton family when they would come home. Dinner would be cooked with meat and side dishes and there would be candy in the shells. The girls, especially Michelle, idolized Lisa growing up.

Going to visit Lisa and her dad for just one month out of the summer, was like a luxury vacation. Joel Guy Jr. got to live with Lisa and Joel Sr. his entire upbringing. He felt the everyday luxuries of having a stocked fridge, a clean house, and clean laundry. His three and a half sisters did not. Instead of feeling jealous or resentful, Michelle and her sisters simply looked forward to their one month of bliss every summer. After all, it wasn't Joel Jr.'s fault that he was born into a double parent household. As the three girls grew up and became adults, the relationship with

their father and Lisa Guy grew into a more mature one. Michelle saw Lisa as her best friend, and she admired her. She looked up to her even as she entered parenthood herself. I so wanted to be this woman that my first engagement ring was her exact engagement ring. And I wanted to be the mom. She was, I wanted to, she would sit in her little browns very brown shirt. And she had a really high art in her foot and just with her cup, I wanted to even, at certain points in my life, I walked around with a cup that had like the little square placement under it Because I wanted to be how I wanted to be the mom as she was Joel guy senior Michelle's father was a great parent and housekeeper as well

My dad makes the bed up every day Lisa One thing they always didn't even grow enough like I wanted to be that housewife that made the bed like Lisa did. And so the bed was always made up. The bathroom stuff was always clean. Though they lived far from each other later in life, Michelle, her two sisters, Lisa Guy and Joel Guy senior, kept in touch on an almost daily basis. We had a group text. It was more like text was banter just funny even through email that would send banter of funniness. Don't you just love getting memes from your family over email?

Tath, they're always so hysterical. Though they no longer had that month long visit in the summertime to look forward to, the family excitedly anticipated the holiday season. Thanksgiving was quickly approaching and Michelle planned to bring her boys to her parents' house. I'm not sure what time I arrived. It was early. We always spent all day together. My three sons were with me. So my sons came with me and then my boyfriend was coming that evening. He was having Thanksgiving dinner at his granny's house. And then he was coming to my house, but my parents did not know at that point that he was coming.

Michelle's half-brother, Joel Jr. was staying at his parents' house, too. Michelle had never really gotten to know him very well. And she assumed he would be out of sight for most of the day. I don't know if it's usual for everyone else, but hours is you hang out in the garage, and you laugh, and you talk, and you tell the same stories, and then you move to different

spots. So we moved at one point to the back porch. This day was a little different. It was always more the typical time with Dad and Lisa. It was more laughing and banter, but if Joe Michael Jr. was there, he wasn't ever hanging with us and doing that banter. He would be in his room. Thanksgiving was completely different.

At the moment that I arrived, Joel Michael Jr. was talking to us, and so I'm not sure Joel Michael Jr. knew my kids' names. And so for him to talk to them was odd. And so he was talking to my kids. And he was bringing them upstairs. They had Lisa had kept every single thing that this kid had. That I mean, it was in a kid at that point. But his entire everything, beanie babies

that he collected, things that he had put on the shelf, like eggs, science stuff. And she memorabilized, it's not a word. His entire life in boxes upstairs and so they were bringing those boxes down but it wasn't Lisa giving that away, Lisa didn't want to give it away. It was John Michael Jr. giving it to my boys, which was still odd. For the first time ever, Joel Michael, as Michelle refers to her half-brother, was giving his old beanie babies and other toys to his nephews. Actually, it was really the first time Michelle witnessed her brother interacting with her children at all. Like Michelle mentions, she wasn't even sure if Joel knew her kid's names,

and he usually just kept to himself. Michelle was on high alert after seeing the exchange between her children and her brother upstairs in his old bedroom. Something weird was going on. Joel Jr's parents were really the only couple in his life who knew him. His sisters had little to no relationship with him, and that wasn't by accident. Joel Jr.'s parents were really the only couple in his life who knew him.

His sisters had little to no relationship with him, and that wasn't by accident. Joel Jr. had one singular best friend, a friend that had been in his life for nearly a decade. They went to high school and college together, and even attended a two-year boarding school program for gifted students. During the course of this decade, the two roomed together on and off. This man, Michael McCracken, had no idea that Joel even had siblings. During the years that they lived together, Michael only remembers the occasional phone call

to the house from Joel's mother. He had only met Lisa Guy one time and never met Joel's father. Michael assumed Joel wasn't only child and the topic never came up. This was by design. Joel Jr. slowly began to isolate himself from everyone around him after graduating high school. While he was living in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, his family members weren't even allowed to possess his address. Very few people knew where he lived. He didn't want visitors. He didn't have a job, and he began to communicate less and less with his best friend Michael McCracken. For Joel to have been jubilant and friendly during

the 2016 Thanksgiving weekend weekend was very unusual. Michelle remembers that every time she turned around that weekend, Joel Jr. was right there. He was especially vigilant of his sister's movement upstairs. Anytime she went to use the restroom or had to go up to the second floor for any reason, Joel Jr. closely followed. Michelle did the same. She kept tabs on Joel Jr. all day that Thursday. It was so odd that my boys were upstairs like interacting with Joel Mockel that I was going

of stairs for two reasons. I was going of stairs for laundry and then I was going of stairs to check on the boys. Since Joel was staying at his parents' house in Knoxville for the weekend, he accompanied his father to Sir Gornsville, Tennessee the next day, on Black Friday, where his parents planned to move in December. Everything was already in place. This is Joel Sr.'s other daughter, Angela. They had been talking about it for a while, but he had sent a group message to a family

group message. So that was on November 17th that he finally got word that his house had sold and they had signed the documents and that they needed to be out of the home by December 13th. So but they had had the house up for itself for quite some time. She was excited about retiring and just spending her time. They were madly in love. So just spending time with each other. Joel Guy Sr. and his wife Lisa had purchased this home in Sir Goinsville from Joel's sister. It was a new and exciting chapter for them.

The new property was sure to facilitate a tranquil retirement. Joel Sr had grown up in Sir Goinsville and was looking forward to retiring from his job in civil engineering and returning to his hometown. Most of us work our entire adult lives with our eyes focused on the light at the end of the tunnel That light is retirement The promise is that as long as we work hard during our productive years and invest our money properly We should have enough to live on during the final portion of our lives The harder you work as an adult the more money you'll have to live on when you're a geriatric

The harder you work as an adult, the more money you'll have to live on when you're a geriatric. Joel Guy Sr. and his wife Lisa sat down and worked out the numbers to determine whether they'd be able to survive without income from a full-time job. They shared their conclusions with Joel's seniors daughters in October before Thanksgiving weekend. One of my trips back home in October, she did, now we're talking out in the garage and she had stated that They were gonna retire and it was time for Joe Michael to stand on his own to fee. He was an adult That's right Joel senior and Lisa guy's 28 year old son Joel guy junior was not paying his own bills

any of them Where have we heard that before was not paying his own bills. Any of them. Where have we heard that before? Joel Jr. had never in his life had a paying job. He didn't know it yet, but he was about to be thrown full force into adulthood, something he had never truly experienced. He was unprepared, and it was all about to happen quickly. It celebrated my youngest son's birthday in October.

It's October 28th that weekend. They said that they were retiring and that they were moving to Sigourin's School and that Joe Michael was going to, or need to find a job because they were no longer. They're money when they sat down and determined even down to the amount of beer that they drink a week and the amount of cigarettes that they have a week, what amount of money they would need and that amount of money was what they

had to retire. They originally planned to break the news to their son in December after already having moved from their old house to the new one. Joel Jr. originally confirmed with his parents that he'd be skipping out the 2016 Thanksgiving get together in lieu of the Christmas celebration. But then he showed up at Thanksgiving. Lisa decided to tell her son right then and there rather than waiting. Jola accompanied his father to Sir Goyne'sville the next day, after all his sisters and other relatives had left his parents' house. They arrived back in Knoxville in mid-afternoon. The house was already

mostly packed up, and Joel Sr. had begun moving things into the new house. Joel Jr. stayed with his parents until Sunday, November 27th, when he decided it was time to drive back home to Baton Rouge. He made his bed in the guest bedroom and gathered the things he planned to bring back with him to Louisiana. There wasn't much though. Michelle remembered that she walked past her brother's car when she arrived on Thanksgiving

and noticed something odd. There was this big toad in the back and the leaves were on them and one was inside the other but I thought he had carried his luggage and my first reaction was that his luggage was in that car. That's the reason I remembered it. Why did he put his luggage? Why does he not have luggage? All of Joel Guy Jr.'s odd behavior over Thanksgiving weekend was intentional. His odd behavior over Thanksgiving weekend was intentional. Every move Joel made was calculated ahead of time. He had a rebuttal plan, one that would assure he would not ever have to enter adulthood.

He would spare himself the pain of working a real job, having true friends and dealing with the stress that comes with the responsibility of paying bills and funding one's own lifestyle. And he had been constructing this plan for weeks. Joel Guy Jr. presumably discovered his parents planned to cut him off long before Thanksgiving dinner. By the time that Thursday arrived, he had already been planning for weeks. He sat in his apartment in Baton Rouge, picked up his notebook and began writing. Day after day, as new ideas came to him, he pulled the notebook from his bag and captured them.

This notebook was now his playbook. He dubbed it the Book of Premeditation. was now his playbook. He dubbed it the Book of Premeditation. I mean, let's face it, some criminals are just dumb. Assets, her assets, life insurance worth $500,000, probably more with double indemnity. With him missing or dead, I get the whole thing. All her other assets are joint. Go to him if missing, unknown if he's dead.

His assets, Knoxville House. Homeowner's insurance possibly, but probably worthless after fire. They owe $100,000 on it. Sir Goyne'sville House appraised at $400,000 or more, worthless with Renee on the property. Other assets include her car, his SUV, his boat, his old truck, his 401k is worth 80,000. He could probably have savings or other investment accounts. Joel was making a comprehensive list of assets he would attain if something were to happen to both his parents. Definitely suspicious, but not a crime. The most telling sentence on this page mentions what happens

if Joel Guy Sr. is missing, or dead. The tone this handwritten summary gives off is a kin to the well-known Mafia idiom that goes, that's a real nice life he got there, it would be a shame if something were to happen to it. Except Joel Jr. is talking about his parents, the people who gave him his cushy, comfortable life, the people who memorialized his magical, innocent childhood inside a guest bedroom, and funded his way through private school programs and a decades worth of college classes at Louisiana State University. Even after all that time and financial help, he never even got a degree. Never got a job, and never had a life of his own.

He stashed the black Cambridge Limited Notebook inside his marooned book bag between textbooks for other college courses. The bag also contained folders housing his syllabi for the fall 2016 semester, one of which was a class on psychiatry, ironic considering Joel's declining mental state. On another page in the notebook, Joel had scribbled down, of body, 20% fat, 20% protein, 55% water, 5% other compounds. This made sense.

It was written inside a notebook found in Joel's school backpack, and Joel was in school at the time. He had been attending for nearly a decade, taking classes sporadically with one goal in mind, to become a plastic surgeon. It made sense that his notebook might include notes about the composition of the human body. The problem was the heading of the page. It read, Destruction of Bodies. Joel Jr. began accompanying his note-taking with weekly trips to the store. He began to purchase items noted in his journal.

Things like plastic sheeting, bleach, lie, a chemical sprayer, and a few plastic totes. Yeah, like the ones his sister Michelle noticed in the back of his vehicle, that Thanksgiving. The subsequent pages in Joel's journal only began to get more strange. The notes he wrote back in early November of 2016 are devious and disturbing, but also juvenile.

Within Joel's carefully structured plan to murder both of his parents, he specifies odd things, things that would directly incriminate him. It's almost as if he constructed a road map for police to find a document that would give law enforcement a very clear idea of the murder weapons timeline and motives. Get killing knives, quiet, multiple. Get carving knives to make small pieces. Get sledgehammer, crush bones. Bring blender and food grinder, grind meat.

Get bleach, furniture proteins. Get plastic bin for deneturation process. Does not matter where they're killed, just get rid of the bloody spots to prevent evidence of time of death, not the mattress or couches. This was his plan. Joel began gathering his materials, writing notes directly to himself in a journal, and continued planning as the days crept forward, drawing closer to Thanksgiving weekend.

Think about how many people have probably planned murders in their head, maybe going as far as to plan it in a notebook like Joel Jr. did, but never actually had the guts to carry it out. I mean, a lot is on the line when someone decides to commit a crime as serious as murder. There's a good chance the perpetrator won't get away with it, and we all know this. Most of us would never even attempt to murder someone, not just because it's morally wrong, which should be the main reason we avoid murder, but because technology today makes it really challenging to get away with crime scot-free. There are cameras

literally everywhere, and that little device in your pocket is constantly pinging off cell phone towers and triangulating your location at any given moment in the day. DNA and crime scene investigative technology is getting better and better every year, and it's just not a great time to be attempting murder. Chances are, it's only going to get more difficult to get away with crime as the decades progress. Joel Guy Jr. was attempting to plan for every possibility. He knew that if there's nobody to be found, the crime is harder to pin on someone in a court of law. Joel was confident that he could get away with these murders. He, in his own mind, thought he was a genius. Let me paint a picture for you real quick.

Joel has only two facial expressions. The common one is a blank, Mr. Bean like gaze. It's creepy. His buggy eyes nearly pop out of his skull, staring deep into your soul, sometimes darting around inexplicably as well. The other facial expression he sports when he's not lost in his own brilliant thoughts is a smug one. His chin is held high in the air or tucks into his neck.

He raises his eyebrows and smirks. He smirks like he knows he's the smartest person in the room. If someone's looks alone could just piss you off, that's Joel Guy Jr. The huge downfall in Joel's book of premeditation is the simple fact that the book exists, directly incriminating him if it were to be discovered. But you see, Joel was very confident in his intricate strategy. He planned for almost everything. The next pages in his journal go into even more detailed calculated plans, but we'll walk you through everything as it happened.

That statement right there is the reason the deed had to be done over Thanksgiving weekend. Joel chose to stay at his parents' house for more than just that Thursday. He knew that if his sisters were aware that he was spending the entire weekend in Tennessee with his mother and father, they'd be great witnesses after the fact. They could tell police that Joel had been spending the night staying in the upstairs bedroom, which would explain why Joel Jr.'s DNA would be all over the residence. And another reason for his lengthy stay is, of course, that he needed several days to carry out everything

written in his notebook. He couldn't just get it all done in one night. Joel's mother, Lisa, put in her notice of retirement at her job on November 21, 2016. Her last day at Jacobs Engineering Group was scheduled to be December 2, a Friday. Lisa and her supervisor, Jennifer Whited, were not only colleagues but good friends. Jennifer knew of Lisa's plans to retire before she put her notice in. Prior to the Thanksgiving holiday, she was excited, yet a little preoccupied because she had so many things changing in her life, but she seemed to be very excited. She was excited to know that her entire family, her kids, were coming to spend the holiday

with her and her senior. Jennifer and Lisa didn't speak during that holiday weekend. Both were busy with their own families and planning. Jennifer figured they'd catch up with each other on Monday and give a summary of Thanksgiving. This was to be Lisa's final week working at Jacobs. Well Lisa, her work schedule started at 7 a.m. and I noticed at about 715 that she was not in office and I normally gave my employees about 15 minutes to get there and you know more out of being concerned that they were okay I would start calling. So, 715 came and she wasn't there, nobody in her group had

heard from her. So I began texting her and she didn't text back. And I thought that was highly unusual. A lot of thoughts went through my mind, you know, hoping that she was okay, hoping that, you know, this was her last week, she was retiring, that she had blown us off. But I knew that wasn't right. So I continued to text her, I continued to text. Jill Sr., I called and never did get an answer. If she couldn't make it to work, she would have called me immediately. One of Joel Sr.'s daughters had a birthday on the Sunday after Thanksgiving. She didn't hear from her dad that entire day.

Those who knew Lisa and Joel Sr. well knew that something was very wrong. After calling and texting both Lisa Guy and Joel Guy senior dozens of times that morning, Jennifer finally decided to call police and request a welfare check. I guess I have an employee that has not reported for work today and how am I to her? I've tried calling her home number, I've tried to call so soon and can't get a hold of her. What can we do about that? Can somebody go by and check on him? Yeah, do you know her address? I do, I do. I was the employee saying?

Lisa? Guy. G U Y. Her husband's name is Joel. J O E L. Should you be there too? This is Jessica. Yes, she does.

Okay. And I do have a dog named Jake. I think he's a big baby. Okay. How old is she being now? She is in her 50s. She's a big baby. She's a big baby.

She's a big baby. Okay. How old is she being now? She is in her 50s. She's a big baby. She's a big baby. How old is she, do you know? She is in her probably 50. She has the hasn't been medical issues. No, I mean she does have blood pressure, but that's all the problem I know of.

I know that the house is just real and they are moving and she is leaving our company. But that's supposed to be Friday and this death link is on her just not to show up. I often call over to the officer, tell him to bring that in to the corner and if anything changes before then, just give him to call back here, okay? That's a say number. Okay, great. Thank you so much.

You're welcome, but that's fine. I think I remember. Okay, great. Thank you so much. Bye-bye. Jennifer waited all throughout that work morning for call back from authorities. I had realized that nobody had called me. Still could not get a hold of Lisa or Joel. So I called back to see what they had found with the welfare check. And I was told that everything seemed to be fine, that nothing looked out of the place,

and so they didn't do anything further. I asked them to please go back, because I knew that something was not right. She had plans with other co-workers that day, and that she would not have canceled, or just blown them off. She would have at least called. So I asked them to go back.

The dispatcher on this second call told Jennifer that they'd speak with a detective and get an answer for. It was probably 20 to 30 minutes later, I think, that I got a phone call from a detective wanting to ask me more questions about Lisa and what I knew. But I did not know that anything in particular had happened. What had really happened was beyond anyone's wildest fears.

No normal person could have dreamt up with the Knoxville police witness when they entered the guy residence. Upon my arrival, there were vehicles in the driveway. There was a for sale sign in the front yard. The back fence was closed. The front door was locked. You can see that there were groceries inside the residence. This is the lead investigator who was assigned to the case.

He accompanied the original responding officer back to the house after police received that second call from a panic Jennifer Whited. With the vehicles in driveway and the information that we had, it was obvious that the owners of the vehicles to possibly be inside the residence and need assistance. I actually jumped the fence, went to the back with another officer, got down and got up on the door, observed that there was a door knob missing on the back door and the glass was warm from the inside of the house, like you could just tell, that the door was warm and there was some kind of strange odor that had observed. I don't know if I verbalized it. I know that it was more or less just a feeling sensation, feeling very odd, or something ominous about it.

The officers noticed that it was strange that the home had a for sale sign, but no real touch lock box was attached to the door knob on the front door. They were desperate to find some way to enter the home without damaging anything. It appeared that the door knob that had been on the back door was moved to the front door. On this particular day in Knoxville, it never got warm enough to breach 70 degrees outside. It stayed in the load amid 60s all day. When the Scrooge door was opened, both officers were smacked in the face with nearly a hundred degree heat

and intense chemical smells. When you enter, you don't wanna stand in a doorway for a minute stand up here at a time because you have people behind you. So you wanna try and get in and see what the layout is, did the department where to go next when you're clearing the residence. The entire time we're making announcements, we're hit with heat and again with this

strange odor, there is a pot on the stove, a large pot that you can tell that the stove is on, the stove top and the oven are on because of all the heat coming from that area and It's very odd. Here's another officer that arrived on scene before the home was cleared. As we enter the garage, you can feel an intense heat coming out of the garage area. When the interior door comes open,

we step into the residence. There's some chemicals setting in the floor as soon as you step in, and then we begin to clear the residents. The door inside the garage opened up into an Eden kitchen. On the table, there was a purse, some wallets, and a sledgehammer. It was also clear that someone had bought groceries at Walmart. The items were still in their bags. Whoever had purchased them didn't even have time to put them away. were still in their bags. Whoever had purchased them didn't even have time to put them away. Bacon was thawed in its bag, ice cream was melted in its container. Everything seemed to have been

abandoned abruptly. Even more strange, right in the entryway to the kitchen from the garage, sat a multitude of chemicals and cleaning products, an orange bag of baking soda, several gallon bottles of bleach, a roll of trash bags, all blocking the main walkway into the kitchen. Officers could hear a dog howling and whimpering sporadically, the sound seemed to be coming from upstairs. One of the officers in this body cam footage can be heard saying, that's blood, right? Does everyone have gloves on?

It's terrifying because you don't know if somebody needs some help. I mean, it's just an odd situation. There's nothing downstairs that I'm observing that makes sense to me. You know what I'm saying? I mean, we go through houses and we clear houses regularly. And most of the time, if you encounter something, you kind of know where I go saying? I mean we go through houses and we clear houses regularly and most of the time if you encounter something You kind of know right when you get in. This was a very different situation because once we get upstairs It's like the world does a 180 everything gets turned upside down

The officers on scene were trying to put the pieces together in their minds, have expecting a medical emergency situation. When they made their way up the steps, they realized that this case wouldn't gulf their lives for years to come. They made their way up the stairs and began to notice bloodstaining on the walls. Once they had climbed most of the steps, the lead investigator gained visibility into the upstairs hallway. I observed what appeared to be clothing and sharp instruments and some kind of bucket. I don't know what it was. It was a bucket. There was something else present with the clothing and what appeared to be reddish brown stating on the floor

the wall it's going all over to place and you can see straight down the hall and I saw hands not connected to a body. Imagine being a police officer called to this house, hoping and praying it's just another standard welfare check. Imagine being a police officer called to this house, hoping and praying it's just another standard welfare check. Even once they got inside each officer, held on to hope that someone had just experienced a medical emergency and perhaps could still be helped. When the leading officer saw the disembodied hands

of Jolkai senior, these hopes quickly vanished. This was undoubtedly the most gruesome and bizarre crime scene that Knoxville law enforcement had ever witnessed. He braced himself, then entered the master bedroom. When you go in, there was like plastic, drop cloth type material or something, a roll of plastic on the bed, and I remember the bed was made. The room looked immaculate, all except a large pile of seemingly random items in the middle of the floor.

It was a large room and a pile of junk included things like work lights, the one's contractors use, toys, some chlorox wipes, bottles of some sort of chemical, socks, and other clutter. A space heater in the bedroom was turned on, full blast. It wasn't just this room that held a space heater though. The furnace temperature was set in the 90s, and each room had at least one space heater turned on high. Attached to the master bedroom was a bathroom. I went in the master bathroom,

and the only thing I saw were two tubs with what appeared to be body parts liquefied. I'll never get those smells out of my head or my dreams. Go back down. We're going to turn down. Go. Move across. Go. Go. Go. Go. Go.

Joel Jr. planned all of this. All except the early arrival of police. He didn't get a chance to finish everything he detailed in his journal, but he was in the final stages of his cleanup plan. His notebook states, get plastic sheeting for disposal process, get hollow point bullets just in case. The sentence about getting bullets is crossed out.

We'll be seen buying bullets, just use computer room gun. Check to make sure there are bullets, last resort. He's not alive to claim her half of the insurance money, all mine, 500,000. Joel's plan was to kill both of his parents and stage it like a murder suicide. He would kill them sometime between Friday and Saturday,

begin to dismember them and dissolve their body parts. Then he would spend the next few days cleaning up the crime scene and prepping for the final stage. Flood the house, covers up forensic evidence, turn heater up as high as it goes, speeds decomposition, bleach reacts with lumen all just like blood, dows area with bleach, big sprayer, lie, trash compactor. Don't have to get rid of the body if there's no forensic evidence on the body. Minimize things I touched throughout visit, wear gloves and socks to prevent fingerprints and footprints. The plant sounds like a lot of thought went into it. Joel Guy, with his genius mind and his superb

planning skills, he could pull this off. What he didn't realize, and what many first-time killers don't realize, is how difficult it actually is to kill someone and dismember them with minimal mess. let alone two people. And if you're wondering about that dog, his name's Jake. He was rescued from the house, but he wasn't in great shape. He was tired. I'm not been around that dog. I don't know the dog normally, but it was, I mean, he was thirsty.

There was no water in there or anything. And he would be up and barking and then he would just stop. Jake was trapped in the upstairs laundry room without food or water for a long time. Officers didn't know at that point how long he'd been left there, but it was clear that he would have died very quickly if he hadn't been found. The thermostat was set to 90 degrees and heat rises. down. The thermostat was set to 90 degrees and heat rises. At all those space heaters and you've got a near 100 degree house. Joel put his own family dog in what was basically a large oven and left him there to slow cook with no food and no water. He originally planned to kill the dog at the same time he killed his parents, but he must not have had time.

What you've heard so far isn't the worst of it. Disembodied hands and tubs of chemicals and half dissolved human remains isn't where this ends. Remember that stock pot on the stove down in the kitchen? Yes, the contents of the pot. It was determined that there was a head, a severed head in the pot. That pot contained his mother's head. Joel Jr. carried her head downstairs in his arms after killing her and decapitating her. He started boiling it in the pot on the stove. It doesn't get much more evil than that. When Michelle and her sisters were made aware that their parents' bodies were discovered at their home in Knoxville, the same home where they just shared a holiday meal, they didn't understand the severity of the situation. They didn't understand, for example, that this was not a normal crime scene.

It hadn't been a clean PG-13 rated murder. Jennifer Whited, Lisa Geys supervisor over at Jacobs Engineering Group, contacted Michelle after realizing the welfare check she requested wasn't turning out the way she hoped. And so I don't know the exact time, but about two, Jennifer had got in touch with me through Facebook. And she had said there's something wrong you need to call me or I'm not sure her exact message. And so I called her and she said you need to get a hold of the detectives. And so I called Detective McCord and he said, you need to come meet me. He said, do not go to the house.

And I said, okay. And he said, meet me at the Harley-Davidson place. And I met him at the Harley-Davidson parking lot. He said, the bodies were unidentifiable. And I said, if you will, just let me, you can cover their face and it's there's 1980s. I'll written all over them like their hair was 1980s and they're like you know, they're always in bathing suits.

Michelle couldn't wrap her head around why the normal protocol wasn't taking place. When a loved one dies, someone has to go identify the body. She didn't understand why this wasn't possible. This is assistant medical examiner, Amy Haas. The remains were not in such a state that we were able to just place the remains in one body bag like we would do if it was an intact deceased person. When we entered the home, there were multiple rooms in the home

that seemed to be involved as part of the crime scene. There were many chemicals that were scattered in different areas throughout the home. There were many blood spots in different areas throughout the home, and there were also multiple dismembered body parts and various rooms throughout the home. So our overall impression was that this was a very complicated and unusual crime scene. Complicated and unusual are very polite words to use when describing what this crime scene

looked like. Joel's plan went something like this. At least, this is how he intended things to go. After returning home with his father from the new house in Sir Goyne'sville, the evening was normal. He waited and prepared for Saturday, November 26th. He'd have to kill his father first. Drop something down the garbage disposal to break it. Get him on the ground fixing it. Kill him with a knife. Clean up mess from him before she gets home.

Surveillance footage showed Lisa Guy shopping for groceries at Walmart around noon that Saturday. She had no idea that her life was about to end. So the numbers of wounds that I give is an at least number, meaning so much of the tissue was gone, so much of the skin was gone, that it's impossible for me to give an exact counting. So the wounds that I could see in document primarily were on Mr. Gaz's back where the skin still was relatively intact. And on the skin of his back, he had what I identified as 34 sharp force injuries. And sharp force injuries are either stabs or cuts.

It seems mostly logical that Joel Jr. ambushed his father while he was down on the ground fixing the garbage disposal, all according to plan. His back would have been turned away from his son, he'd have never seen it coming. But that's not what happened. Joel attacked his father in an exercise room on the second floor. He stabbed him over and over again, and it wasn't an easy task. In total, he stabbed his father at least 42 times. The blinds in the exercise room were torn, a Boflex machine was completely knocked over

onto its side, and the amount of blood smeared all over the walls and carpet indicate an intense struggle. Joel Jr. was injured during this fight to the death, but he didn't have time to address his own wounds. Joel knew that he had to end his father's life quickly. His mother would be home soon. He cut his father's clothes off his body and left him there to deal with later. When Lisa guy arrived home from Walmart, she set her groceries down, put her purse, wallet and keys on the table in the kitchen, and went up stairs.

Joel Jr. attacked her right at the top of the steps, stabbing again with a knife, just like he had done to his father. Miss Guy had multiple sharp force injuries on her back. She had at least 25, and again, I'm having to do a little bit of a hedge because of the degree to which the remains were altered. Again the wounds were on both sides of her back. They were approximately 6 to 7 inches deep. They included injuries to the heart. So the right ventricle or the right side of her heart. The aorta in her abdomen, which is a major blood vessel that leaves the heart and feeds the lower portion of the body. Both lungs were injured, the left kidney,

the liver, and her third thoracic vertebrae, so a bone in the spine also appeared to be injured. He stabbed his mother with a kitchen knife at least 31 times. Joel then cut all of his mother's clothing off and began dismembering both of his parents. The arms had been removed at the shoulders, the legs had been removed at the hips. His head was completely skeletonized. Joel cut off his father's hands at the wrists and left them in the exercise room where he killed him earlier that day. So like Mr. Ga, Mrs. Ga was also dismembered. There was some differences in the degree to which he was dismembered and the way she was dismembered. Her head was completely severed from her body.

Her arms were disarticulated at the shoulders and her legs were disarticulated at the knees. So in comparison, a Mr. Guy who had his legs disarticulated at the hips, Mrs. Guy's legs were at the knees. So her thighs were still intact. Her thighs were still attached onto her body, but her head was completely severed and her arms were completely severed. Place him in a plastic bin and use it to get him into the upstairs bathroom. Cut off his arm and plant his flesh under his fingernails. Place her hand with his DNA so that his DNA is not wasted away by shower.

Use sodium hydroxide to destroy his soft tissue and soften bones for transport. Based once every hour to accelerate. So not only were there remains in multiple pieces, but there were two large bins, plastic bins like storage bins that were in the upstairs master bath that were filled with some type of chemical. Mrs. Gase Head was found in a large pot in liquid in the kitchen. The liquid in the pot had a slightly different character

to it than the liquid in the plastic tubs. It didn't have the strong chemical odor, it had a slight odor decomposition, but it did not have the chemical odor like the the bins upstairs did. In the skin that remained, the skin and flesh that remained on her scalp was different. The top layer of skin was still intact. In other words, the skin looked like it had heat artifact or what we call thermal artifact as opposed to a chemical artifact. The hair was still there as well.

Joel Jr. was quite literally cooking his mother's head on the stove when police discovered the crime scene. The stove was on, the pot was boiling with Lisa's head inside for days. Some have referred to this piece of the crime scene as a quote, diabolical stew of human remains. And that's pretty much what it was. Blood droplets were present on the stairs, likely from Joel Jr. carrying his mother's decapitated head down to the first floor to ultimately be placed in the stockpot. This is where his plans stopped.

He had much more written in his journal, a full summary of how he would clean up the scene. But after driving to Walmart in the late afternoon to purchase his first aid items for his own deep hand wounds, he realized he would have to go get the wounds treated professionally. Then he'd just come back and finish the rest. Flush sodium hydroxide down toilet. Wash out bins with handheld shower head and then direct handheld into the toilet to flush everything out of the pipes and into the public waterway. Dowskilling rooms with bleach. Place hair curler with flammable paper

and flammable containers of gasoline and four locations. His killing room, her killing room, his bathroom, her bathroom. Wipe down areas near killing rooms and bathrooms. Turn heaters up to 90 degrees to melt fingerprints and dry everything. Set her phone to send me a text late Sunday to prove I was in Baton Rouge,

and she was quote unquote, alive. Leave through front door and wipe down door knobs. Timer for flammables, set for Friday at 10 a.m. Sunlight masks fire, but not smoke. Everyone at work so they can't report it. In case you haven't noticed, Joel's entire plan depended on numerous big assumptions. The most laughable one is that somehow he was convinced no one would be home at 10am on a Friday to call and report a house engulfed in flames.

I guess he wouldn't know much about work schedules though. He never really had a job after all. Joel spent the rest of that Saturday tending to his parents dissolving bodies. He drove back to Baton Rouge on Sunday to have the wounds on his hands treated at the Louisiana State University clinic, but not before he made sure to transfer his parents money directly where he needed it to go. From his father's card, Joel transferred $1,025, then $1,589. And finally, $2,051. All of it went to Louisiana State University

where Joel was a student. From another bank account in his father's name, Joel transferred a total of $3,090 to a utility company back in Louisiana. Joel left the house exactly as police found it. You see, he planned to drive back to the house in Knoxville to finish cleaning up once he got treatment for his hands. But Lisa's supervisor, Jennifer Whitehead, had already called for a welfare check when Lisa didn't show up for work on Monday. I guess Joel didn't think about the

fact that his mother still had one week of work left, and people would be looking for. This early discovery threw a wrench into Jol's entire plan. He stupidly left his backpack with the book of premeditation in it while he drove back to Baton Rouge. When police arrived, they had a clear cut, easily prosecutable crime scene, and they knew exactly who had committed the crimes. This was no who done it, but that

didn't make the crime scene any easier for investigators to witness or process. The sights and sounds will, without a doubt, stay with them forever. If killing his own parents wasn't egregious enough, his plea of not guilty is really the icing on this crime cake. True crime cake, is that a podcast yet? I'm sure it will be. During his 2020 trial, Joel sat and listened to all the evidence brought against him.

He watched photo after photo of the crime scene flash onto the courtroom screens, and he tried to hold in a smile. He stuck his fingers in and around his nose, yond rolled his eyes and made faces that can only be construed as condescending throughout the entirety of the trial. He forced his three sisters and his parents' siblings to sit through a tedious rehashing of the awful way their favorite people, Joel, senior and Lisa Guy, were brutally murdered and stolen from by their own adult son. And it wasn't because Joel was hoping for a verdict in his favor. His defense team offered no defense whatsoever.

They called no witnesses. They suggested no other alternate storylines for how the crime could have occurred. Nothing. Joel just wanted to sit in a room where everyone would discuss his handywork. It's clear that the appalled facial expressions of everyone involved in this case pleased him. He enjoyed it. Here's Michelle, Joe Guy Senior's daughter. Jumacol was Lisa's entire world, most girls dream of weddings, I think. I don't know. But I dreamed of being Lisa with the picture perfect family, with the dad coming home at five in me having dinner.

I wanted to love as strong as Lisa loved. They provided a loving and caring home with all the extras stuff. My dreams were to spend the next 40 years at Thanksgiving and Christmas laughing with my parents. My dreams were to move Lisa next 40 years at Thanksgiving and Christmas laughing with my parents. My dreams were to move Lisa and dad into my home. I would even banter with them about them moving into my home when they were old to model for my kids how to take care of your parents. I got to see my mom staying by her parents bed when they died. And I wanted that. My dream was to hold my mom's hand.

As she took her last breath, my dream was to hold my dad's hand as he took his last breath. People think moments like that for granted, but I'm one of those moments with my whole soul. Not only that, the kids childhood was taken away. I am angry for my dreams being destroyed, but I'm not the only one that's been affected. This is impacted my kids and for that, I will never be able to forgive. I was easy knowing that God is okay with my choice,

not to forgive someone that has murdered my parents. I had just been the last four years saving my kids soul, their spirits, and their hearts. I have spent the last four years cleaning up a mess. No one will ever know what it's like to have to be a child having to hear that your grandparent mother's head was cooking in a pot because the person that did it had the perfect childhood. He, especially not a man with that childhood and you'll never know what it is like to have to tell your children that their grandparents have been chopped up and put in acid. Because my kids ever trust again, would I ever really be able to trust again.

During the four years prior to the trial, Michelle had been healing with her family and trying to protect her kids from the horrendous nature of this crime. Joel Guy Jr., on the other hand, has spent his time sending handwritten court filings in an effort to claim his parents' life insurance money. We can only assume that his ultimate goal was to get a free ride through life, to never really have to become an adult with real adult responsibilities. This goal for him was so important that he was willing to murder the only two people who really loved him.

Then his mind was simple. Either way, whether he got away with it, or whether he was caught and convicted, he would achieve his goal. Just two days prior to jury selection for his trial, Joel filed a motion to serve as his own defense attorney. He was only concerned with one issue. He wanted the state to pursue the death penalty in his case. The state prosecutors made it very clear that they would not seek the death penalty.

They weren't going to give Joel what he wanted. Instead, they stated they would seek a sentence of life in prison with the possibility of parole after 51 years. It almost goes without saying, but the jury found Joel Guy Jr. guilty on all counts. Of course. His charges included two counts of first-degree murder, three counts of first-degree felony murder, and two counts of abuse of a corpse. The judge presiding over this case sentenced

the now 32 year old Joel Guy Jr. to five life sentences with the possibility of parole after 51 years. Whether those life sentences will be served concurrently or consecutively will be decided after this program has been recorded, but before it airs, so you can probably just google it. Now that all is said and done, Joel actually got what he wanted. He will never have to act as a productive member of society. Never have to shave and commute

and go to work, be frugal, save his money for retirement, all those annoying adult things that nobody really likes to do, but everyone has to. They'll never have a boss looking over him and telling him what to do, and they'll never have to form any meaningful relationships with anyone. The state will provide three square meals and a cot, and perhaps that'll be comfortable enough of a life form. Although it probably won't be what he was expecting. Alright guys, that wraps up Season 7. We'll be back January 10th on the regular feed with Season 8.

Or January 3rd for plus members. If you haven't heard of plus, go to SwindsGal.com. Slash Plus. Check it out. Support the show. Help us out. Have a wonderful holiday season. And until next year, stay safe. Hi Mike and the wonderful Swarth & Scale team. My name is Courtney. I'm calling from Connecticut. I just listened to the most recent episode 175 and I felt super inclined to call and just let you know how in the strangest of ways,

all of your episodes, all plus episodes have been so fair, beautiful for me. And I think people who have never listened probably would go like, what in the world is she talking about? He talks about crime, murder, rape, all that kind of stuff, but for someone who has, you know, post-traumatic stress disorder, it's just something that has been very helpful for me.

So I just want to say thank you and keep up the good work and also I have maybe bad decision in my life to not allow my boys to do voiceouts ever again. So thank you for that. You guys are awesome. Keep up the great work and take care. Happy Holidays. Bye. You