Sword and Scale - Episode 182

Episode Date: March 22, 2021

In December of 2000, 31-year-old real estate appraiser Mike Williams went missing while duck hunting on Lake Seminole in Jackson County, Florida. The initial belief was that Mike had drowned and that alligators had eaten his body. Seventeen years would go by before Florida law enforcement could prove that something even more horrifying and nefarious happened to Mike Williams.  See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Sword and Scale contains adult themes and violence and is not intended for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised. For the rest of my life I will see my son cleaning too a tree stump in the door. I risked red and helping-helping animal haunting forever. Hello, once again. Welcome to Season 8, Episode 182 of Sword and Scale, a show that reveals that the worst monsters are real. On today's episode, a near-perfect murder plot is foiled by the one variable of the crime the murderer could not control. A mother's love.

This story has everything. Love, sex, betrayal, and even alligators. So sit back right now and let us tell you a story. On the morning of December 25, 2000, 56-year-old Tallahassee woman Cheryl Williams drove to Jackson County, Florida, and arrived at Lake Seminal, a massive reservoir in the northwest corner of Florida's border with Georgia. Lake Seminal is known for its exceptional fishing and duck hunting locations. But Cheryl had no intention of doing any fishing or hunting on this particularly somber Christmas morning. Instead, Cheryl was visiting the final resting place of her 31-year-old son, Mike Williams. It was just days earlier that Cheryl received the heartbreaking news from the Florida Fish and Wildlife Commission.

Mike Williams had gone missing while duck hunting on Lake Seminal and was presumed dead. The belief was that Mike had accidentally drowned, and subsequently had been eaten by alligators, making the recovery of his body unlikely. When Cheryl arrived at Lake Seminal to see where her son had perished, she noticed that the air was considerably cold for Florida, colder than it had been in years. And with tears in her eyes, she looked out of the large, malevolent body of water that took her child's life.

Then, without warning, the wind picked up, like some cruel attempt to knock her over, the lake breathed a harsh and bitter cold air. But it was no match for the fire that suddenly ignited inside of Cheryl. While standing at the lake's edge, an abrupt and unexplained apprehension overtook Cheryl, forcing her to clench her fists, and she knew something wasn't quite right. She knew that Mike was not in Lake Seminole. Maybe it was divine intervention. Maybe it was a mother's intuition.

Regardless, Cheryl knew in her soul that Mike had not drowned and that he had not been eaten by alligators. It was at this moment that Cheryl resolved herself. She would do everything and anything she could to find out what had really happened to her son. 16 years later, in the early morning of August 5th, 2016, another Tallahassee woman, 46-year-old Denise Swinchester, left her home. With a purse slung over her shoulder and a travel coffee mug in hand, Denise locked her front door and walked towards her SUV, which was parked a short distance away in her driveway. Like most weekday mornings, Denise was anticipating a routine commute to Florida State University, where she worked as an accountant. Denise climbed into her SUV and started the engine,

then she used her cell phone to dial her sister, as it was typical for the two of them to chat while Deneese drove to work. But before Deneese's sister could answer the call, something unthinkable happened. The man who had been hiding in Deneese's backseat since 2am revealed himself and climbed into her passenger seat. I was calling my sister and this person started climbing out of the very back and I couldn't tell her first who it was. But I was screaming in the phone and he told me I didn't know if she'd picked up your mom and then he grabbed the phone and it's fine, I'm going to turn it off and I'm going

to hide in the car and then I'm going to be in the car. Denise's sister never heard those cries for help, but Denise quickly realized who the man in the passenger seat was. It was her husband, 47-year-old Brian Winchester. Denise and Brian had separated years earlier, but it was only recently that Denise filed for divorce. Brian had reportedly tried to talk her out of it, but Denise held firm to her intent to end the marriage.

About 230 in the morning, he climbed into the back of her SUV, harmed with a gun, waiting for her to get up to go to work. She did eventually get up and go to work, get in the car, and when she realized that he was in the car, she screamed. Brian and Denise Winchester met in grade school and had been friends for most of their lives.

They attended high school and college together, both graduating from Florida State University in 1992. After college, they remained close, but their relationship didn't become romantic until much later. And in 2001, they officially began dating. Brian and Denise married in 2005, and their marriage started off well enough. But things began to fall apart due to Brian's admitted infidelity. The couple separated in 2012 and four years later in 2016, Denise finally filed for divorce. Brian was desperate to reconcile. He called and texted Denise endlessly,

pleading for her to take him back. Eventually Denise began ignoring him, which only enraged Brian, who then climbed into the back of Denise's SUV with a handgun, I just want to talk to you. I just want to talk to you because he's been emailing me. He texted me, I'll have to mock everything, trying to get me to stop the divorce. Brian pressed a loaded gun into Denise's ribs and instructed her to drive. For nearly an hour, they drove through Tallahassee

as Brian held his estranged wife at one point. And I was like, he'll just turn back to the horse the whole time of true this way. I'm not told anything, but he's calm, he's calm down. And so with the guns still right there. And I was like, what are you doing? Why are you doing this? And I was like, I don't know, I know you want to talk to me. And I'm like, this is not the way to do it. I know what I've done. I was like, he kind of woke up. I'm like, what am I going? What am I going to do? I know. Fortunately, Denise was able to reason with Brian, offering hope that their marriage could still be saved and Brian relented. Denise drove Brian to his truck, but before leaving her SUV, he begged Denise not to go to

the police and report him for what he had just done. Denise wisely agreed, but as soon as Brian was out of sight, she called the Leon County Sheriff's Office who instructed her to come to their station and file a complaint. Brian was swiftly arrested and charged with kidnapping, which is a first degree felony in Florida, and if convicted, carries a possible sense of life in prison. At Brian's arraignment, Denise begged the judge to deny bail. He was waiting for me in the back of my car, with the gun. He grabbed the steering wheel, and shot the gun in my rib cage, screaming profanities, uncontrollably at me. I will never be the same.

I will never wish this on anyone. I can't sleep, I can't eat, because I only see him rising up out of the back of the car because all I feel is the gun. Shed my ribs, I feel is the gun. I'm shunned at my ribs. I can't have peace because the only here is voice screaming and cursing at me. Please don't let him out. Denise got her wish.

Brian remained in jail for over a year while awaiting trial. During which time Denise and Brian's divorce was finalized. Brian maintained he never had the intention of harming Denise, though his actions and the items in his possession suggested otherwise. You crawled in the back of vehicle about 2 or 3 a.m.? Yes sir. Because that's when it's the darkest. Right. You waited for? Yes sir. You had a backpack with you? Yes, sir. You had alerted handgun. Yes, sir. You had a tar. No, sir.

I had a sheet. A sheet? Is that the sheet you were going to use to wrap body and after you killed her? No, absolutely not. Brian ultimately pleaded no contest to the charge of kidnapping and begged the court for mercy. Never, ever, that I have any intentions of harming Denise, nor would I. court for mercy. At sentencing, Denise lobbied the court and asked for life in prison, citing that her life was in danger if Brian was ever to be released. I start each day with the memory of him jumping out of the bag, and I end each day

feeling the gun shoved in my ribs when it turned on my right side trying to sleep. He will finish what he has started, no matter what age he is when he's released. I'm asking you to send it to him to life in prison for the crimes he has started, no matter what age he is when he's released. I'm asking you to send it to life in prison for the crimes he has committed. It comes down to my life for his, and I'm asking you, please choose mine." Brian Winchester was sentenced to 20 years in prison for kidnapping, and following his conviction, Florida law enforcement was glad to have him locked up. Not only because he was guilty of kidnapping his ex-wife Denise,

but also because he was suspected of being involved in a nearly 17-year-old missing person case. You see, according to a friend of his, Brian had been getting more and more worried that Denise knew about something that had gone missing over a decade before. He had tried to call her several times to make sure that they were still cool about that, despite their deteriorating relationship, but she had not answered those calls. So he waited in the back of her car and held her at gunpoint to talk about it. What was missing, you may ask? Well, it was Denise Williams. Jerry Michael Williams was Denise's first husband. Mostly known as simply Mike, he was born in 1969. Growing up in Bradfordville, Florida, Mike's parents raised him in a double-wide trailer.

You know, it's hard to throw a dart anywhere in the panhandle of Florida and not hit someone that grew up in a double-wide trailer, or maybe a single-wide. In any case, rather than purchasing a house, Mike's parents used their income to send Mike to North Florida Christian High School, where he actually excelled, serving as student council president and playing football. At age 15, Mike met fellow student and his eventual wife, Denise Merrill. Denise Williams and Mike Williams knew each other from childhood. They dated each other through junior high and high school and college and they maintained a long-term relationship with the Winchester.

Brian Winchester and his wife Kathy Winchester who was then Kathy Thomas. Mike Williams also met Brian Winchester. Remember him from just a few minutes ago? Apparently they all went to high school together and quickly became good friends. Mike attended classes at Florida State University where he studied political science and urban planning. He graduated from FSU in 1992 alongside Denise, Brian, and Brian's girlfriend at the time, Kathy Thomas. Mike and Denise married in 1994

and maintained a close relationship with Brian and Kathy, who also got married. The foursome often double dated, went to clubs, concerts, events, and even vacation together. It's weird to think that right now at this moment, you could be going out on double dates with your husband and your future lover at the same time. But hey, you do you, Boo. In 1999, both couples became parents. Brian and Kathy had a son while Denise and Mike had a daughter.

We're just totally overwhelmed. She was due to Tuesday and she would have made a whole nother year for Mother's Day. So she came yesterday so I could enjoy this day today with her. It was unbelievable. I have a whole new respect for my wife and women in general and what they go through to bring a new child, new life into the world. Following the birth of his daughter, Mike Williams completely dedicated himself to his family

and worked hard to provide a more than adequate lifestyle for his wife and newborn son. Mr. and Mrs. Williams got married in 1994, and by all accounts, they had a happy marriage. Mike Williams was a good husband, he was a good father, and he was most certainly a good provider. At age 31, Mike Williams was considerably successful, making nearly $200,000 a year as a Tallahassee real estate appraiser. And when it came to managing work life with family life, Mike was a machine known for working long days, going home to have dinner with his family only to return to his office and work through the night. Mike was also known to leave his office for short periods of time to do mundane tasks for Denise, like picking up and delivering lunch or filling up her gas tank when she

didn't feel like doing it herself. Amidst his demanding work schedule, Mike remained a devoted husband, albeit an unappreciated one, for sure. Still, Mike somehow made time for himself, and often woke up before sunrise to go duck hunting, a hobby he'd picked up in high school. that go out and do a regular basis. On this particular day, you went out and did everything. You went out on a good duck hunt. This particular day was December 16th, 2000, and coincidentally was Mike's sixth wedding anniversary with Denise. They had planned a short vacation to celebrate, and Mike was expected home at noon so they could pack together and leave. But noon came and went.

And Mike never came home. Naturally, Denise became concerned, and she called her father who in turn called Mike's best friend, Brian Winchester. With his own father, Brian drove to Lake Seminal where Mike was known to frequently go duck hunting. There, they found Mike's Ford Bronco near a boat launch. But otherwise, there was no sign of Mike. For a wildlife commission, or contacted as well as other family members, and they start to kind of figure out where he is. The initial thought of course is that he possibly would run even boat out to get us to a hunting area he could have possibly was going overboard boat went off and they were hopeful

to find her. The day following Mike's disappearance, his boat was discovered 75 yards away from the landing where the Bronco was parked. Inside was all of Mike's hunting equipment, and the boat engine was left in the on position, which further suggested that Mike was thrown overboard. The subsequent search of Lake Seminole was extensive and methodical. In addition to Florida Fish and Wildlife, several other agencies were brought into assist,

including a dive team from Montgomery, Alabama, and the Jackson County Sheriff's Office. We did grid searches and only moved over four to six foot at a time in the beginning, and then we'd come back and isolate that to a certain area. And we actually put ropes out from one stomp to another and pulled with poles the first couple of days. And then after I think that after the first night we had a camera come in and put on the poles that we would monitor the bottom. And we searched that area with the cameras

and with the poles and everything as well. And there was nothing that we could find. After a full week of searching, there was still no other trace of Mike Williams. And reality began to set in. The rescue effort turned into a recovery operation to find Mike's body. Search dogs were brought in and boat teams

were issued probing poles, which were used to prod the bottom of the lake. The search for Mike's body lasted well into February over five weeks after he had gone missing, but still there was no sign of Mike. Mike still has not been recovered in the case of the cold. At this point, it is more of the missing persons. There's been no evidence of any foul play in any way, shape or form, essentially a duck hunting book at blood accident. Then six months after Mike's disappearance, a small trace of him was finally discovered.

A local fisherman, this way, he contacted me and said that he had found a set of waiters, floating in the area that we had been searching. I contacted the Sheriff's Office of the investigator and he came over and he and I went out and retrieved the evidence. The waiters had a banny pack that was strapped around the waistband with 15 shot shells and steel shot shells in them. And I think in Arkansas hunting license. The hunting license they found belonged to Mike Williams, and this small bit of evidence only further cemented everyone's assumption that Mike had drowned in the lake.

But the question remained, where exactly was his body? To explain why Mike's body could not be found, Florida Fish and Wildlife offered a theory, a poorly considered theory that somehow developed shortly after Mike's disappearance. Fish and game told me to my face. The swamps, I'm sorry, I don't like to tell another bad horse son got eaten by alligators. The Florida Department of Law Enforcement, otherwise known as the FDLE, concurred with Florida Fish and Wildlife and assumed that alligators had eaten Mike, but neither organization considered the many problems with this theory. First, alligators do not typically feed and cold temperatures.

In the winter, alligators spend their days basking in the sun to maintain body temperature and are not interested in food at all. Likewise, if alligators did defy this rule and had, in fact, eaten Mike. It is unlikely that they would consume a full grown man without leaving any piece of him behind. Mike's mother Cheryl Williams quickly realized that this didn't make any sense and began a crusade to find out exactly what had happened to her son. I warn you, this next clip is heartbreaking. For the next 17 years, I made telephone calls,

put up missing person signs, compiled my notes into a book, and had people post on social media for me. With the help of friends, we raised money and put up billboards. I bought ads in the channel Hassey Democrat and worked with the Twin City News asking everyone to help me find Mike. I stood on street corners waiting my picket signs with pictures of Mike on them. I was cussed out by ministers for being too close to their church. I wrote

2600 letters to the governor of Florida asking for help and finding my son. Cheryl Williams eventually learned that the more than 2600 letters she wrote to the governor's office went unread and were instead forwarded to the Florida Department of Law Enforcement, the same agency that determined Mike was eating by alligators. When asked how this made her feel, Cheryl told a reporter from the Tallahassee Democrat, quote, they could not have hurt me more

if they had punched me in the face. The initial theory was that he was missing and possibly eaten by alligators. had not have hurt me more if they had punched me in the face. Road to Governor? Yes. Put up billboards? Yes. And in fact, you were able to get an investigation launch, were you not? Yes. Eventually, Cheryl Williams convinced the FDLE to abandon their ridiculous alligator theory and launch an official investigation into Mike's disappearance. Then, on December 20, 2017, almost two decades after Mike's disappearance, the FDLE held a press conference to reveal some startling news. I appreciate you being here today as we provide you an update of the Jerry Michael Williams investigation. 17 years ago, Mike Williams disappeared hunting on Lake

Seminole near the Georgia State Line, and it was initially believed that Mike had drowned. A team of law enforcement professionals from the Jackson County Sheriff's Office conducted an exhaustive search of the lake, but Mike's body was never found. Standing here now, I can tell you that we know what happened to Mike Williams. He was murdered. After receiving new information, FDLE's crime scene unit and special agents spent days conducting an extensive search at an undisclosed location.

That search led to the recovery of human remains and FDLE's crime laboratory analyst confirmed through DNA analysis that the human remains are those of Mike Williams. Further forensic analysis concluded that Mike Williams was in fact murdered. Our focus has shifted to bringing those responsible for his death to justice, and we will not stop until that is done. Mike's body had finally been found and forensic evidence confirmed that he had been murdered. Five months later,

a Leon County grand jury handed down a first-degree murder indictment, but the person charged with the crime may surprise you. It was not Brian Winchester. In December of 2000, 31-year-old real estate appraiser Mike Williams went missing while duck hunting on Lake Seminole in Jackson County, Florida. 17 years later, the Florida Department of Law Enforcement announced that they had found Mike's body and forensic evidence proved that Mike had been murdered. In order to solve this murder, authorities had to go all the way back to 1997 when the

plot to murder Mike Williams began to take shape. Before Mike's disappearance at Lake Seminole, he and his wife Denise maintained a close relationship with Brian and Kathy Winchester. The foursome had been friends since high school and remained close well into their adult lives. Both couples married in the mid-90s and at first all was well. But in 1997, Brian and Kathy's marriage began to fall apart. The first thing was really good, I think with all of us, but I was not a great husband. At one point I found a note in my first wife Kathy's purse and basically I came to realize

that she was cheating on me and after that, I began to look outside of my marriage. After learning that his wife Kathy had been cheating on him, Brian began to look for his own affair and found himself becoming attracted to his best friend's wife, Denise Williams. My wife and I Kathy and Denise and Mike, affair in October of 1997. It began as a one-time drunken make-out session at a rock concert, and quickly developed into frequent secret meetings for sex. It snowballed really fast. We started meeting in hotels. We started meeting during the work day.

We started meeting whenever we had the opportunity. If Mike was at work, Mike worked a lot. He really was a work of college quite frankly. We would primarily go to her house. We would meet at Home Depot parking lot or meet behind Kaiser College and leave a vehicle and go to her house or go to my house. So we started meeting very regularly and having sex very regularly. Eventually Denise and Brian's affair became more than just meetups for casual sex. While still married, they began thinking of themselves

as a couple, exchanging gifts on holidays and writing love letters to each other. My dear sweet adorable, beautiful Brian, there are so many things I want to say to you. So many things that I want you to know. First of all, I found a present for you for Christmas that I had already bought, so I wanted you to have it. Also, I remember that real frosting was something you really wanted, so I made it for you.

I hope you like it. I love you more than ever, Denise. Brian and Denise took several trips together, including a visit to New York City, and then another to South Beach, Florida, and yet another to Panama City. Do you recognize this photograph? Yes, sir. What are those photographs of? The photographs of Denise with my first wife, Kathy, of a sexual nature. And where were those photographs, baby? Panama City.

In case you're wondering, Brian was the one who took those photographs. After all, no marital affair is complete without a threesome. Not that it makes it any better, but in all fairness, threesome's weren't a regular thing for Brian, Denise, and Kathy. In fact, at this point, Kathy was unaware that Brian and Denise considered themselves an item. She just happened to be present during this vacation to Panama City. By now you may be asking how Denise was able to get away with this. Surely a husband would develop

some suspicion if their wife was frequently cheating, while also taking random vacations without him. Well, Mike, remember that hardworking go-getter Mike from the beginning of this story? Well, as we know, he was a workaholic, and it had never been unusual for Brian and Denise to spend time together. After all, they had been platonic friends since grade school. Still, Mike did eventually begin to suspect that something was going on. Mike knew something was up, but he didn't know what was up.

Denise told me that he went to Denise's mom, Johnny Merrill, and was asking her a concern about money cash that was disappearing from their accounts. And he didn't know if she was having an affair or what was going on, but he was very concerned and had a conversation with Johnny Merrill about that. After questioning Denise's mother about money missing from their bank accounts and a possible affair, Mike had become even more suspicious when Denise stopped having sex with him. He and I took a trip in November out to Arkansas together, so we spent 20 hours in the car together,

and I heard a lot about how unhappy he was, you know, with Denise. He was getting angry or an angerier about the fact that she wasn't having sex with him. I didn't want him having sex with her. She didn't want to have sex with him, but and we checked up on each other a lot. Denise would check up to see if I was having sex with Kathy, and I would check up on her to see if she was having sex with Mike, because we consider ourselves a couple together. Why do people that do this stay married? I get that there's all kinds of financial and child custody complications, but when your secret boyfriend is calling you to make sure that you're not having sex with your husband,

it's probably time to call a divorce lawyer. If you don't mind me, Tarantinoing this for you. Let's briefly fast forward to the present, at least the present of where the story started. Hardworking Mike Williams had been missing for three years. During which time, play all day, have a three way with your best friend's wife, Brian, separated from his wife, Kathy, and eventually got a divorce. Brian and Denise began dating publicly. This caught the attention of law enforcement,

and their interest in the couple only intensified when Brian and Denise got married in 2005. Their marriage, along with the efforts made by Mike's mother Cheryl Williams, finally led to law enforcement quietly reclassifying Mike's disappearance as a suspicious missing person's case. It had changed and now it was a suspicious missing person.

What does that mean? Basically, we could not prove or had no information. It was a homicide, but taking the information in its total, you know, just a lot of things didn't quite make sense. There's a lot of things that we needed to rule out. That we really could not rule out as far as this being any sort of an accidental death. The Florida Department of Law Enforcement began operating on the assumption that the newly married couple, Brian and Denise Winchester, were somehow responsible for Mike's disappearance

and likely murder. One of the first things that the FDA did was look at Denise and Bryant's actions around the time of Mike's disappearance. Unfortunately, Mike had disappeared in the year 2000, which was before smartphones, emails, and text messaging took over everyone's lives. When authorities attempted to obtain phone records, they found that everything had already been purged. Well, they were able to do is go back and get life insurance policies and life insurance

information on microwaves. And what they found out is that the niche Williams paid out $1.75 million as a result of the theft. Oh yeah, baby, Powerball. Now we're talking. And that $1.75 million paid out in life insurance was only part of the equation. Factoring in Social Security and other benefits, Denise Williams actually received over $2 million as a result of Mike's death. It's Lambo time.

But remember, at this point, there was no body. It hadn't been confirmed yet that Mike was dead, so how was Denise able to collect this money? It must have been such an aha moment for law enforcement when they were called that Brian Winchester made a living as a no joke insurance salesman. We realized it was Brian that reached out to try to find out what it would take to get Mike declared dead. We found out that Brian actually sold a million dollar insurance policy to Mike just before his death. I sold an insurance policy of Mike probably around when he first got married.

Maybe an earlier than that, I don't remember, but it was a policy for $250,000. My understanding is Mike bought a second policy, maybe a couple years after he got married. It's a list for $500,000. I sold my third policy in the year before his death for a million dollars. Okay, so if you haven't been paying attention, let's recap for you. The insurance money that Denise received was from a policy that was sold to her missing eaten by an alligator husband by her now new husband, Brian Winchester. If that wasn't suspicious enough, there was also the way that Denise reacted to the efforts being made by Mike's mother to find her son. Oh God, this is poor, poor woman.

Oh God, this is poor, poor woman. I had been trying to get publicity for Mike's disappearance. I had written the letters to the editor of the Talhasi Democrat, begging them to do a story about Mike's disappearance. Finally, a reporter read my letters, and he was doing a story about people who were missing locally in Tallahassee area. He called me to ask me if he could include Mike in those people and I told him yes. When the article came out in the newspaper. Denise called me on the phone. She was living.

Denise wasn't happy to see that an effort was still being made to find Mike. And she made her feelings known by confronting Cheryl about it. We went to her house, she was screaming at me. She was mad about the article. And she said, I don't ever want to hear Mike's name again. I don't ever want to see Mike's picture in the paper again. I don't ever want to know anything you're doing about Mike again.

I have to get on with my life." Despite Denise's anger, Cheryl Williams wasn't about to give up on finding her son. So Denise did the only thing she could, which was to threaten Cheryl. Then she said, if you persist in trying to get a criminal investigation, you will lose Ansela. Your granddaughter. My granddaughter. Did you ever see Ansela again? No.

Unfortunately for Denise, her threat did not discourage Cheryl. In fact, it only spurred Cheryl on. While planting the suspicion and her mind that Denise knew what had happened to Mike. She might as well have waved a red flag in front of a bull. I knew that she knew where he was or what happened to him. Cheryl refused to give up and continued her efforts to find Mike. In response, Denise followed through on her threat and removed Mike's daughter from Cheryl's life. Cheryl never saw her granddaughter again. Still Cheryl did anything she could to maintain contact

with her son's daughter by posting open video messages on social media. spirit. Ansela, you were 19 months old in your daddy's girl. Mike loved and adored you. Even though I haven't been able to hug you in the last 10 years, I love you more than mere words can ever say. Ansela, always remember how much grandma Michelle loves you. You are in my heart forever. At this point, police and several of Mike's family members were confident that Brian and Denise were somehow involved with or even responsible for Mike's disappearance.

But all the evidence against them was circumstantial. Florida Department of Law Enforcement investigators did not feel confident in making any arrests, and again, the investigation into Mike's disappearance went cold. Then in 2016, Denise filed for divorce from Brian and Brian kidnapped her, holding her at gunpoint in a desperate attempt to save the marriage. Immediately after escaping this kidnapping, Denise went to the Leon County Sheriff's Office to report the incident. And for obvious reasons, police were

happy to have Denise in one of their interview rooms. We have never met a woman for the public law for something. I've literally known you and I've known your family for many, many years. Okay. The reason I say that is, you know, I've been looking into my disappearance. Investigators at the Leon County Sheriff's Office used Denise's kidnapping as an opportunity to interrogate Denise about her possible involvement with her husband's disappearance. I believe he died on the lake. I do. Why do you say my purse in the lake? I just... He didn't die like so, okay? That's what I'm always going to leave.

That's what I believe in. And why? I've never been proven anything different. I don't... Well, is there a many proofy, right? If you were to a person that like, he would have found. I guess that's just what I believe. Really?

When asked, Denise held firm to the theory that Mike drowned at Lake Seminal. But police believed Denise knew more than she was telling. To mount pressure on her, the investigator outright told Denise that they knew Mike had not died at Lake Seminal, which wasn't actually true. Now I'm just starting to feel very uncomfortable. I've been comfortable for a long time because we needed some things on this case. And we were hoping one day that either briar you, maybe you could fill in some of the gaps there, full of pieces of post. But I guess right now I really need to focus on this and what happened this morning. And I want to get as restraining order done by the clock and the one.

I mean, I want me in my door and these days. Throughout this interview, turned interrogation. Denise does all she can to sway the subject away from Mike's disappearance and back towards her kidnapping. But the investigator keeps pushing and reminds Denise that police are eventually going to be talking to Brian. I just thought from the, I asked. Why did I ask? I don't know, I've no idea what you were going to say. But again, I really don't want to focus on that.

And if you, I mean, I just, I just, I just want to be in it. This is what you want to talk about. Well, this is, this is the thing today. It's kind of the day to go, you know, we know what happens to you. But for me, again, I want to apologize to you in one of the 433 songs I mean before I,

so I don't know with 333 right now. I just want to make sure that I have time to do that. That's my problem right now. But I guess what I'm saying is about the minus intuition that you want to talk about. I don't want to talk about this right now. I don't want to talk about this right now. I want to get this settled first. It's not settled to me. I have not owned out. I have not owned out other street. You want to keep the topic of conversation on her kidnapping. In a last-ditch effort, the investigator asks Denise point blank if she thinks Brian was responsible for Mike's disappearance.

You've been too responsible for Mike's disappearance. I do not, and I never had, I would have never married him if I thought that. I would have never wanted so bad to have children with him. I would have, I mean, in my mind and in my heart, no. But do you ever leave right here in this moment that he had anything to do with that? Absolutely not.

But you did? Yeah, did that mean that I'm not gonna promise this and then go back, of course I am, but I'll kind of promise this first. And I know you understand that. Well, process is a place. So when you find time to come back, you need a process with all water about whatever happened.

After this interview, Brian was swiftly arrested for kidnapping. Within the week of his arrest, Denise placed even more suspicion on herself by attempting to get a message to Brian through Brian's first wife, Kathy. Denise asked me to get a message to Brian that I'm not talking. After that, did you ever confront Denise about what she asked you to do that week after the kidnapping? Yes, I did. Did you record that conversation? Yes, sir.

Denise's message to Brian was, quote, I'm not talking end quote. Not talking about what the three way, the insurance policy, the weather, we can only guess. But what Denise didn't know is that when she asked Kathy to deliver this message, Kathy was working with police as an informant. In an effort to get Denise to outright admit she was involved with Mike's murder, police had Kathy called Denise and tell her that Kathy had been subpoenaed

and was gonna be questioned about Mike's disappearance, which wasn't actually true. So I'm gonna freaking out about this subpoena. I'll show up. Well, here's my problem. So, I'm gonna get upset here. Because I know they're wanting to talk to me about my ink. I've always just pretended like I don't know anything. And I mean, I do know.

What do you know? Ryan called me. The shop, Ryan, and he was mad at you. And so he told me, he told me about what happened to Mike. Well, I don't love to know what happened to Mike. During this conversation, Denise never admits to anything, though her nonchalant reaction to potential information about her missing first husband was certainly suspect. Months later, in December of 2017, Brian pleaded no contest to kidnapping, and Denise asked

the court to give him a life sentence. I'm asking you to send it to him to life and present for the crimes he has committed. It comes down to my life for his, and I'm asking you, please choose mine. When Denise was asking the judge for the harshest possible sentence, she didn't know that Brian had already cut a deal with prosecutors and spilled the beans about Mike's disappearance. Denise has this thing where she gets people to do stuff for and she minimizes her guilt, her conscience, her whatever it is. people to do stuff for, and she minimizes her guilt or conscience for whatever in it. She's unbelievably good at line manipulating, having things work

away, not just with me, but other men, I mean just she's very good. This confession by Brian Winchester was part of the Proffer Agreement made between himself and Leon County prosecutors. A Proffer Agreement, which is often referred to as Queen for a day, is a written agreement between a prosecutor and a witness that allows the witness to give law enforcement information about an alleged crime while limiting the prosecutor's ability to use that information against them. In short, by providing a confession, Brian Winchester had immunity and could not be prosecuted for anything he said to law enforcement during that confession.

We started having an affair October 13, 1997. I quite honestly was somewhat content with the arrangement as far as me and Denise. I wasn't looking or pushing to get it over. I didn't want to get divorced. Basically, Denise made it clear she would never get divorced, primarily because of appearances, she is ultra concerned about the way that she appears to the world. And she was concerned about not getting divorced because of the appearances of it, but also because she was scared to lose her daughter. Despite their respective marriages, Denise and Brian wanted to be together, but neither one of them were eager to get divorced. As their affair continued, it became clear that the situation was unsustainable and couldn't last forever. Something had to give.

So Denise was getting worried that things were going to blow up. The year of 2000, we had us to start having conversations about Mike or Kathy's deaths. She wanted it all to be on me and not on her. And she wanted in her mind a scenario where it wasn't a murder, but it was an accident. There were scenarios that were discussed between me and Denise, and at times it was scenarios with Mike and Kathy, and then it started talking into scenarios with Mike. What began as a marital affair soon developed into plotting the murders of Mike and Kathy, and during the course of this plotting, many options were considered. The two main scenarios that I can remember being discussed was one scenario was we all went

out on a boat, the four of us. Mike and Kathy were pushed overboard. Denise and I found our way to safety. The other scenario was a scenario where Mike and I went hunting and there was an accident and he didn't make it but I made it back to safety. After considering the various ways that their spouses could end up dead, Brian and Denise settled on only murdering Mike and making his death look like a hunting accident. If this plot wasn't sinister enough, Brian and Denise decided to time the murder in a

way that would ensure the largest payout possible from Mike's life insurance policies. The plan with Mike when I sold him the million dollar policy was that he was going to drop the $500,000 he wasn't going to keep that. Denise knew the timing of the $500,000 policy and when it was supposed to be lapsing. It was agreed that that was when it was going to happen. Brian and Denise agreed that Mike had to be murdered before one of his three life insurance policies lapsed in late December 2000. So that month, Brian set up a hunting trip with Mike enticing him with a duck hunting site that Brian had discovered at Lake Seminole. Saying Denise has changed her mind and she doesn't want me to go anymore.

At some point after that happened, I talked with her and she just basically said she had gotten cold feet. So we had conversation that week and so it was planned again for the next Saturday. About of hesitation had caused a delay in Denise and Brian's murder plot, but one week later, Denise urged her husband to go duck hunting with his best friend, Brian Winchester. Ladies, make up your mind. So in the very early morning of December 16, 2000, Mike Williams packed his hunting gear and left his home to meet up with Brian. Mike's plan was to return home by noon so that he and Denise

could begin celebrating their wedding anniversary. But Mike never did return, and he would remain missing for 17 years. 17 years after 31-year-old Florida property appraiser Mike Williams had disappeared, Brian Winchester confessed to plotting his murder with Mike's wife Denise Williams. Brian and Denise had been having an affair and planned Mike's murder so they could be together, while also profiting nearly $2 million from Mike's life insurance policies. Following Brian's confession, nearly two decades after Mike Williams went missing, an arrest was finally made for his murder. Denise Williams now charged in his murder, her arrest coming nearly 18 years after his

disappearance. That is her friend turned husband, Brian Winchester, broke his silence in exchange for immunity, claiming the two of them plotted the whole thing. Denise Williams was charged with conspiracy to commit murder. Murder in the first degree, an accessory after the fact, all of which carried a possible life sentence. Denise pleaded not guilty to all three charges and her trial began December of 2017. Not surprisingly, Denise's defense team was quick to warn the jury about Bryan Winchester's confession and testimony.

Bryan Winchester is not on trial. In fact, he's never even been charged with the murder. He's going to testify here as a witness. And there's an important part of that that you haven't heard yet that I want that will be in evidence and I want to tell you about it. And that's the fact that he is going to be testifying under a grant of immunity. And what that means in this particular case, the kind of immunity that was given to him, he will be able to testify as he pleases about this without any fear that the state will be able to use that testimony against him. But he's here as a witness and he's going to testify that Didis Williams helped him plan the murder. Brian Winchester did in fact testify at Denise Williams murder trial and was

undoubtedly the prosecution's star witness. Last fast forward to the year 2000. At some point were their thoughts of how you and Denise could be together. Yes sir. How did that to shoot. Denise did not want to get divorced. Her biggest concern with the divorce was she didn't want to share custody and handslee with Mike, but she still had a desire for us to be together, which narrowed the options. We wanted to be together and we weren't going to let anything stop that. Part of the prosecution's strategy to convict Denise Williams was to point out the methodical nature in which Denise planned her husband's murder.

Mike worked a lot at night at his office and one of the options was that we could make it look as if there was a burglary of some sort of it is office and that he got shot in some type of robbery or something up at his office. Denise didn't like that idea, primarily because there would be an investigation. If you remember from Brian's earlier confession, one of the potential murder plots that Denise and Brian discussed was that both Mike and Brian's wife Kathy would be killed and their deaths would be staged to look like accidental drownings. Well, the reason Kathy was spared was because Brian didn't want to kill her.

I had no desire whatsoever for anything to happen to Kathy. I didn't really emphasize that with Denise because it was not good for me to express affection or, you know, care about what happened to Kathy. But silently to myself, I was never going to allow anything to happen to my son's mom. After considering their many murderous options, Brian and Denise settled on only murdering Mike and staging his death to appear as a hunting accident. Another scenario that we came up with was Mike and I going

on a hunting trip together and they're being an accident where both the and I ended up in the water and he drowned and I did not. Denise liked this idea because she felt better about herself or we could feel better about ourselves if there was a chance that he could make it out of it. I think there was even talk about it, a little bit up to God, what happens and not us, it won't be a murder. It'll be, you know, an accident. It's kind of screwed up thinking, but that was a scenario that she could live with, I guess, you know, six sort of way, you know, it was kind of like, you know, well, if God wants this

to happen, this is what's going to happen. And, you know, there would be a chance that he could get out of it. Don't you just love it when people try to justify their own disgusting behavior as God's plan? Unfortunately, for Denise, God's plan apparently also included allowing a jury to learn about her murderous behavior, as well as the disgusting and greedy motive that fueled that behavior.

There were a lot of things that were kind of pressuring us for this to happen. When it did, one was Mike had intended for that policy, the 500,000 other policy to lapse. He was not intended to continue it. And so behind his back, Denise paid one more. I can't remember if it was quarterly or semi-annual premium, but we kept it going one more premium period and we knew we weren't gonna be able to keep it going perpetually Then he would eventually see this money. Hey, he's going out of the check and I can't help for that policy that I didn't want anymore The life insurance policy was in place, but time was running out

So Denise and Brian put their murder plot into action. The plan with Mike was that I would meet him at a gas station. Denise really didn't have to do a lot other than come up with an alibi for herself and make sure that Mike went. I told him that we were going to go to a secret special spot to go hunting and then he needed to bring his waders. I had to make sure that he brought his waders because the belief was if you fall over board with your waders you're going to sink really quick and drown.

So I had to make sure that he brought his waders. So I met him at the gas station and I followed him over to the lake. If you're not familiar with them, waiters are basically waterproof overalls, traditionally made from rubber. Hunter is in fishermen typically wear them to stay dry while waiting in shallow bodies of water. Since they are waterproof, they can become very heavy if water makes its way into a set of weighters.

Brian's plan was to murder Mike and make his death look like an accidental drowning caused by Mike falling overboard while wearing a set of weighters. To establish his own alibi, Brian planned to leave Lake Seminole after murdering Mike and meet with his then father-in-law for a planned hunting trip. To make this work, Brian met Mike very early in the morning. The sun had not come up when the two of them parked near the boat landing, dropped a motor-powered canoe into Lake Seminole and pushed out onto the water together. I was in the back of the boat driving and he was in the front.

I know I was very concerned about the time everything had taken longer than what I had anticipated and I had to be back in town early enough in time to meet my father-in-law for my alibi trip to occur. And so we headed out and there was a deep area. I don't remember exactly how I got him to stand up, but I don't know if I pretended something was wrong with a motor or the weight in the boat was all for something, but I basically stopped the boat and got him to stand up. And when he did, I pushed him into the water. It turns out that Brian's plan wasn't very well researched.

The idea that hunting waiters will cause a person to drown if they fall into a deep body of water is actually a myth. While it is possible, you're not really any more likely to drown if you take a swim while wearing waiters. So he was in the water and he was struggling and the motor or the boat was still running and I pulled off just a little bit to get kind of away from him so that he couldn't reach back into the boat and I didn't know it at the time. I didn't know if he was trying to swim or I didn't know what it was going on, but what I came to find out or eventually realized was he was taking the waders and the jacket off. And that area of the lake had a lot of own snags, a lot of dead trees that come up out of the water and there's a lot

of stumps that come up out of the water. And he swam over one of those stumps and held onto it. And he was panicking, and I was panicking, and none of this was like going well. I thought it was gonna get him. And I didn't know what to do, but he started to yell, but I didn't know how to get out of that situation. And so, I had my gun in the boat and uh, so I loaded my gun and I just, I made one or two circles around and I ended up circling closer towards him and he was in the water and as I passed by I shot him in the head.

Brian didn't leave Mike's fate up to God like he and Denise had planned. Instead, Brian loaded a gun and shot his supposed best friend in the head. Mike died instantly, and because Brian had shot him, any chance of making Mike's death look like an accident was gone forever. So I turned back around and came back to where he was, and I knew I couldn't leave him there, so I was gonna have to do something to cover this up.

I reached down and he wasn't far under the water and I grabbed a whole of him back my truck to the edge of the water. Let the tailgate down. I ended up putting him in the back of my suburban and I pushed the boat back out into the water and make it look like his boat was out there. He had drowned or disappeared. I didn't give a lot of thought as to what was going to happen after that. I was just panicked as to getting out of that area and covering this up.

In an effort to minimize the spread of blood, Brian put Mike's body in a dog crate that was stored in the back of Brian's truck and began driving to his pre-arranged alibi. I sped back toward Tallahassee and as I was driving there I was realizing I'm not going to make it in time and I decided the best thing for me to do was to go back to my house and pretend that I had overslept. I drove home and was really, really hoping that Kathy was still asleep. I went into the house as quietly as I could.

She was still asleep. I crawled back into the bed and had a phone there on the floor. I could remember dialing my father-in-law and telling him, apologizing, I'm so sorry, I overslept. I didn't want to wait Kathy up, obviously, because I had what was in the driveway, but I wanted her to know I was there,

confirmed that I was there, but not wake up and start asking me any questions about what happened, why'd you ever sleep, you know, anything like that. After doing his best to establish a makeshift alibi, Brian returned to his truck and tent on hiding, Mike's body. I went back out to the driveway to leave. My driveway was angled and I was walking behind my truck and I saw out of the back tailgate blood was coming out of the back of my tailgate and dripping onto the driveway. So I rinsed that off and was trying to figure out.

I've been thinking on the way from like similar back to Tilehasty, what was I going to do with him. And I don't know when I decided, but ultimately I decided it had to be close and it had to be quick, and it had to be obviously a location that he wouldn't be found. But I had nothing to do this with, so I had to go to a store. And I'm 90% sure the store that I ended up that was Walmart, and I bought a shovel, and I bought a tarp. Seriously, why does every murder use Walmart? Is it just because they're open 24-7?

Or is it their everyday low prices on shovels and tarps? After purchasing said shovel and tarp, Brian drove to a secluded dead end road in northern Leon County and buried Mike Williams' body near a small lake. It would be 17 years before Brian returned to that location as part of his immunity agreement stipulated that he must lead police to Mike's remains. When investigators unearthed those remains, their forensic analysis was consistent with Brian's confession. The plan was for his death to occur, but it was not for it to occur in the way that it did. I mean, the plan was for him to fall in the water and for him to have a chance to survive it. But obviously, that's not what happened, and I didn't want to tell Denise that.

So we never had a conversation that was like, did it all go according to plan, but it was quite obvious from the circumstances that Mike was gone and she assumed that what we talked about, the plan that we had made, she assumed that that was what had happened. Although she knew that her husband had been murdered, Denise was unaware that Brian had shot Mike in the head and buried his body several miles away from Lake Seminole. This became a problem when search teams couldn't find the body. Denise and I were getting

concerned that nothing else was being found out there. I was hoping that his waiters and Jack and I would be found to kind of confirm that that he had drowned there and I wanted to keep to kind of confirm that he had drowned there. And I wanted to keep the searchers in that particular area. So I took a hat that was similar to a hat that Mike used, which was real distinctive. It had a weird looking bill on it. When I was out there with another friend of mine, I threw it in the water in that area because I wanted to keep the people in that area because I wanted to keep

the people in that area because I wanted the waiters and the jacket to be found to confirm that that's where Mike was and where he went into the water. The hat that Brian planted was eventually found along with Mike's waiters and his hunting license. And these finds did exactly what Brian wanted them to do. Law enforcement, along with the Florida Fish and Wildlife Assume that Mike had tragically drowned while duck hunting on Lake Seminal. Still, Brian and Denise had a problem.

The concern between she and I didn't became well if his body's not found what's going to happen with the life insurance. But we all came to learn what she was going to have to get a death certificate issue by a judge through a court. It took Denise a mere seven months to procure a presumptive death certificate from a judge. That's it. Just seven months. This process normally takes about five years in Florida. A full year hadn't passed since Mike's disappearance before Denise received $1.7 million in life insurance

payouts. Soon after, Brian and Kathy separated, allowing Denise and Brian to live happily ever after, as millionaires, that seemingly got away with murder. happened and we decided enough time had passed from Mike's death. We decided it was okay for us to gradually start dating and we were still concerned about the law enforcement side of it, but as time passed and nothing happened, we became less and less concerned about it. Denise and Brian got married in 2005 and they likely would have gotten away with murder. If not for the efforts of Mike's lovely mother, Cheryl Williams, who refused to give up on finding

her son. The outcome of Denise's murder trial was largely dependent on whether or not the jury would believe Brian's story. After all, what would stop him from blaming her, even if she had no involvement whatsoever? Denise's defense team was quick to point this out and painted Brian as a liar and a murderer that acted alone. What I think is not in question is that it did in fact shoot and kill Mike Williams. He didn't mention anything about her alleged participation in this murder until after he realized that he was facing a life sentence for kidnapping.

Mr. Winchester, your murder, is it true? Yes, sir. Mr. Winchester, your liar, is it true? Yes, sir. The defense argued that Brian had several motives to lie, one of which was to avoid ever being prosecuted for Mike's murder. The problem with this is that it actually wasn't in Brian's best interest to lie. It was made explicitly clear to me by the five attorneys that I had helping me on my

case that if I decided to go forth and give a proper and give information about a Mike Williams case that I absolutely, positively, needed to tell the truth because if there was any element that was not true of what I came forward and said and whatever I said could be used against me." As part of the terms of his immunity agreement, if Brian was caught lying about any element of his confession or subsequent testimony, he could and would be prosecuted for Mike Williams' murder, and the state did not hesitate to point this out. every reason to tell the truth, because if he lost in any way, shape or form, that unit agreement is shredded and he goes down a hard-to-under confession. The defense argued that Brian acted alone

and that Denise had no part in or knowledge of Mike Williams' murder. But if that were true, why had Denise actively tried to stop Cheryl Williams from pursuing an investigation into her son Mike's disappearance, going so far as to threaten Cheryl if she didn't stop? In Brian's mind, do you? Why? Why are you threatening the grandmother to stop the investigation of two occasions? If you don't stop this investigation, you'll never see your granddaughter again.

Ryan didn't make that threat. She did. Denise's defense team also argued that Brian's motives for lying included getting revenge on Denise for turning him into police and lobbying for a life sentence after the kidnapping incident. You, in the same situation, you wanted to put her in. No sir. I wouldn't want to put anybody in this situation. She got herself in this situation. The prosecution was quick to counter this argument by pointing out that Brian had talked about Denise's involvement in planning Mike's murder well before he had even been arrested. And therefore, his confession could not have been something that he merely came up with while sitting in jail. Because one of the things that a festival would have to do, is that this was all something that Brian Winchester did.

It came up with, to forget revenge, on the knees for turning them in. Dr. Winuken says otherwise. Dr. Stephen Minuken is a friend of Brian Winchester's and before being released, Brian met with Manouken to talk about Denise, the kidnapping, and Mike's murder. He called me on the morning of August. It was Friday, I think it was the fifth, and said that he hit a new low and wanted to talk to me. Did he indicate to you, what was the catalyst for him performing that criminal act? That could not be. He said that on the night, on Thursday night, the night before the police came to his house and said that she is going to talk to the police about what really happened to Mike Williams.

Well, he had made him very nervous and he really wanted to talk to her about it and he kept calling her but you wouldn't answer. So he decided that the best way to talk to her would be to kidnap her. So it turns out Brian's kidnapping of Denise had less to do with saving their marriage and more to do with ensuring that Denise was staying quiet about Mike's murder. Once again, the defense argument was flawed. Denise clearly knew something, which was evidenced by her attempt to get a message to Brian while Brian was in jail. And we know that Denise tried to tell Brian that she wasn't going to talk about Mike's murder because of the recorded phone conversation she had with Brian's first wife, Kathy Thomas.

Well, in the week of the days going and talking about her work and being interviewed by the department of law enforcement, I talked to about the murder and white women. She calls her good friend Kathy Thomas to tell Brian I can say anything. Well, I mean, I know that you know something that he's because you're like, Well, I mean, I know that you know something that he's because you're like, tell Brian I'm not talking. Yeah, and I knew what that meant. Well, that's why because what they've been doing is they've been lying to me so they're playing everybody against each other.

They said they found his remains and that he was beaten or that he was shot. Brian told me that he all planned it. Plan what? It's not even what she said, it's what she doesn't say. In this regard, she just accused of one of her best friends, applauding to murder her husband, who was, in fact, murder. And there she is. I thought I didn't. Finally, the defense argued that there was no evidence that Denise had any influence on Mike's purchasing of life insurance policies. There's no evidence that Denise Williams participated in any of these discussions about

the insurance. And there's no evidence that she did anything to influence her husband, Mike, to buy this insurance. This argument on its own is ridiculous. As a married couple, Denise would have likely had some discussion with Mike about his life insurance, as well as some kind of influence on him about it. But the defense is right that there's no real evidence

of this. However, Denise was the sole beneficiary, and it was particularly suspicious how quickly she went about having Mike declared dead when his body had not yet even been found. Ryan's friends family in Bono-Water are all they're looking for. They said to search all the way to February and 19 days later she spotted a version of shirt at 1 $2.8. Denise was a beneficiary, the only beneficiary in all the policies. I think I would characterize

it as a bonus. We wanted to be together and the thing that we always joked about was, you know, we were together with each other because we wanted to be, but the money was just icing on the cake. That's some icing and that's some cake. Holy shit, that's a cake. It'll make you diabetic. After three days of testimony, the prosecution gave their closing argument and reminded the jury that although Denise did not pull the trigger, she was still responsible for her husband's murder.

when the crime was committed, that's the law. 18 years after Mike Williams was murdered on December 14, 2018, Denise Williams' fate was left in the hands of a jury. And after deliberating for only eight hours, they returned a verdict. State of Florida versus Denise Williams, we, the jury jury found as follows, as count one of the indictment, the defendant is guilty of conspiracy to commit first-grade murder. As to count two, we the jury found the defendant is guilty of first-grade murder. We the jury found as follows, as count three of the indictment, the the definitive guilty of accessory after the fact of purse-grey

murder. Denise Williams was found guilty of all three charges against her. However, the accessory charge was diminished before sentencing. As Florida law states that a person cannot be an accessory to the same murder, they committed. At sentencing, Mike's mother, Cheryl Williams, God bless her, read her impact statement to the court. in a house with the murderers of her father, while being denied the love of her father's family. Judge Hakenson, there is no amount of prison time

that will bring Mike back to me. I am asking you to lock Denise Meryl Williams when she's there up for the rest of her life with no chance of parole. For the rest of my life when I try to sleep at night, I will see my son clinging to a tree stump and legs some of them in the door, knowing that his best friend is trying to kill him. I hear his voice screaming for help. I was a red helping and all haunting forever. My son's horrific death demands justice with today's sentencing of Denise Merrill Williams

when she's there. There's something about this poor woman's voice that breaks my heart over and over again. Denise Williams was sentenced to life in prison for first degree murder and 30 years for conspiracy to commit murder. In November of 2020, her attorneys successfully overturned the murder conviction and the life sentence. But the conspiracy to commit murder conviction was upheld, as was the 30-year sentence. As for Brian Winchester, he remains in prison on the kidnapping charge, and will likely

never be charged for Mike's murder. As release date is July 30, 2036. He will be 65 years old. Mike Williams was murdered on the day of his sixth wedding anniversary. At the time, Mike knew that his marriage was in trouble. He had suspicions of an affair, but he had no idea about the cold-blooded reptile that was waiting to devour him. It wasn't an alligator. It was his wife. The wife he was hopeful he could patch things up with as he planned a trip for them that

would be a turning point, a revitalization of the commitments that were made to each other on their wedding day. Sadly, that morning he went duck hunting and never came home. Instead, he found himself at the last few moments of his life, lying entangled in beds of dense hydrilla beneath the lake's surface, wondering why his best friend had just shot him in the head. Seventeen years later, when police recovered Mike's remains in a shallow grave, he was still wearing his wedding ring. Mike's murder was the ultimate betrayal that teaches a harsh lesson about trust. Sometimes not even the closest people in our lives are worthy of it. But Mike's story also tells us something

else. When I went to the lake, God told me Mike was not in Lake Simanol. He didn't drown, he didn't get eaten by alligators. I had to find him and bring him home. I begged Fish and Game to do a criminal investigation. They told me Mike drowned and got eaten by alligators. And there was no need for an investigation. They told me my drowning got eaten by alligators and there was no need for an investigation. They laughed at me and called me crazy. I am a fighter, not a victim. I became even more determined to find the truth. If I had not done what I did for 17 years, Mike's disappearance would have never been solved. There is no manual to tell a mother what to do when her child goes missing.

I am Mike's mother and I did what God told me to do. Cheryl Williams, God bless her, fought like hell to find her son and if Mike's murder teaches us nothing it reminds us of what we already know there is nothing in the universe like a mother's love for her child child. That's it for this episode of Sword and Scale. We hope you've enjoyed it. Don't forget that you can get over 100 hours of exclusive content at swordandscale.com slash plus. Plans start at just $5 a month and they help us out a whole lot.

Until next time, don't have a threesome with your best friend's wife, Solomon Insurance Policy, and then plan his murder. And, oh yeah, stay safe. 1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1-1.5-1.5-1-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1-1.5-1.5-1-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1-1. Mike! Dude, stop listening to your podcast for about four years now and I never knew that I was addicted to true crime so let's start to listen to the story. Scale! You know what I mean? It's such a list and a list and a list. Scale! You know what I mean? It's such a great job.

You do such a great job. It feels like I'm having a conversation with somebody rather than just listening to somebody read a week of CD-a-page, try to try to try to other crime podcasts, and I just can't get into them. You get me through long days of work and my factory job, where I put together cars like Legos, and I appreciate it.

I just wanted to show my love. Thanks buddy. Bye bye. 1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5- you