Sword and Scale - Episode 193

Episode Date: August 2, 2021

Each family has its own unique strengths and weaknesses, but what happens when the family dynamic begins to enter into the realm of depravity? In early 2019, when 30-year-old Amanda McClure and her fiance were suddenly reunited with Amanda’s long-lost father and sister in the mountains of West Virginia, things were bound to go sour. No one had any idea that this charming family reunion would end with not only a marriage, but a murder.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Sort and scale contains adult themes and violence and is not intended for all audiences Listener discretion is advised Then he came out there with a steel knife and saw and the axe And told me that I had to remove the lens and the head from the torso Now hope you're having a good white boy summer or a hot girl summer or whatever kind of summer you like to experience in your life. This is season 8 episode 183. Stay tuned. And of course this is sword and scale a show that reveals the worst monsters are real,

had to wait for that because you gotta hit your post. You just have to win life. If you don't all kinds of bad things happen, as we're about to find out. But I do want to say I do appreciate all of you, all of you that have stuck around and supported the show no matter what, no matter what happens. You guys are my savior. It's been a rough year and a half and it's been kind of a even rougher summer mentally, psychologically. There's been, you know how you have a bad mental health day or week, it's been a bad summer. In any case I hope you're having your white

boy summer or hot girl summer or whatever combination of things summer you want to have. Luckily I finally got out for a vacation and so now it's time to get back to work and get back to sword scale and give you the content I promised at the beginning of this year. Here's the thing, we have a little bit of cleanup to do. There has been an Apple Podcast app update. It has changed the way that that app works. They are pushing premium subscriptions, and we're part of that, just to be clear, you can get a version of Sword and Scale Plus on that app that's called

Sword and Scale Plus Light. And it includes all the digital content, the early releases, the commercial free, but it does not include physical perks. So if you want physical perks, you still have to go to sword and scale.com slash plus, or to our own app, which is available on both Apple and Android devices in order to sign up and get those physical perks. Look, we could have decided not to be part of the whole thing. We don't want to be part of your system, man.

We're not going to be part of your Apple Patriarchy, but in the end, we decided it would be better to give you the choice to listen to all of the digital content wherever you want, wherever you can instead of trying to choose for you. And I want to make something very very clear, nothing has changed. The regular free ad-supported show is still free and ad-supported, and you could still get it, but if you try to listen to the latest episode on the app because of the way it was designed, unfortunately, you may think that the show is now completely a paid subscription model, and it's not.

It's still a freemium model. Nothing has changed at all except for Apple's app. So just to make that 100% clear, we always tell people, download our app. Our app's pretty damn good. We spent a lot of money working on our app. Our app's pretty damn good. We spend a lot of money working on our app. Go get it.

Go get it right now. And we don't provide tech support for Apple. So, go to the Genius Bar. Sorry guys, that's just the way it is. Being a parent is hard. It's certainly not for everybody. The job comes with a lot of pressure. You need to make sure your children feel safe, seen and soothed in hopes that they will one day return the favor in your old decrepit age.

There is no guide as to how to be a perfect parent. I mean there's tons of crappy books on the subject, but I'm willing to guess that a man named Larry McClure didn't read any of them. In September of 2019, 55-year-old Larry McClure failed to register as a sex offender in Kentucky. Because of this, he was arrested and extradited to his home state of West Virginia. A little place I like to call the Florida of the North. Larry was paroled seven months earlier after spending 17 and a half years in prison or sexual assault.

When West Virginia state police interviewed Larry about why he forgot to register, seemingly out of thin air, he told officers that he knew about a murder, and the body was in his backyard. Larry McClure was convicted of first-degree sexual assault of a family member between the ages of six and twelve in July of 1998. After Larry's conviction, his daughters, nine year old Amanda and ten year oldold Anna were put into foster homes. Thankfully, Anna tried to stay on this street in Nero. She went to CNA school and started a family in North Carolina before changing her name to Anna

Chaudry. Unfortunately, the other girl, Amanda, ran away from her foster home and spent years living on the street. Amanda became addicted to drugs and graduated to using methamphetamine intravenously, landing her in and out of prison. Eventually Amanda found herself engaged to 38-year-old John McGuire, a fellow drug user and father of four. When Larry McClure reached parole in September of 2019, the first thing he did was contact his daughters. Thirty-year-old drug user Amanda turned Larry down because she didn't want to let

her daddy see how badly her life had turned out. Larry offered her a place to stay that he claimed was safe and far away from her vices, but she refused. 31-year-old Anna believed her father deserved a second chance, and drove alone to Skigusti, West Virginia. Skigusti is an unincorporated town, meaning it has no local governing body, where you can buy home for $34,000 on average. With the current booming real estate market, you may think that this is a great deal,

but don't expect any luxury perks, like running water or electricity. I had come to see, I knew that he was our president. I hadn't made no attempt to contact him until then, but I always had the belief that people can change. I finally decided to see if he had a change. Everything was fine. Up until January. We had been working side by side. There was no problems between us. He hadn't tried to be saying memes. He was acting decent and lucky. Like, well nothing I never know.

He has a history with such movies towards me when I was a child. Thus, the reason he was in prison. So I thought everything was fine. Around the same time Anna arrived in West Virginia, Amanda's fiance John planned a road trip to visit his mother in Alabama. Amanda tagged along because she had outstanding warrants in their home state of Minnesota and didn't want to go back to prison. John's mother, Karen Smith, told us why her son was making the long drive.

I had found out I had cancer and I was trying to keep the house that I had with his step daddy and he was going to come down and be with me just in case it wasn't good and to help me keep the house. He said him and Amanda was coming. I said, well, that's great. I'll make sure you've got a place to stay because I didn't care. He said he loved her and, you know, I trusted my son and he did love her. John and Amanda made it to Indiana before their stolen car broke down, leaving them stuck. Spending the night in a stolen car isn't a really great idea.

An Amanda had no choice but to call Anna for help. Unknowingly, reaching out to their father as well. Which was fun. I hadn't seen my sister in 10 plus years. So we made arrangements and he had basically paid for our hotel room for her. The night, well it was the last January 31st He paid for our hotel room for her that night because she made it to Lafayette in the end and could not come any further. She said the vehicle that she had had broken down So early the next morning. I want to say it was

3 or 4 o'clock in the morning We headed out towards Lafayette to go pick up Amanda. She had her boyfriend John and Guire with her, so we ended up picking up both of them. On the trip back, yes, we knew it was risky, we didn't realize we were going to have another person, otherwise I would have stayed back behind. So John sat in the seat, I was in the middle and she basically hunkered down in the floor on the way back from off the end. Four people in a white seat truck doesn't exactly sit well. Amanda and John were taken back to Larry's house in Skygusty, West Virginia, which was

no more than a small wooden shack in the middle of a forest. John told Amanda that he needed to get to his mother as soon as possible. I flushed all the drugs I had before. My dad got to me because I didn't want my dad to see me like that because when my dad went to prison years ago, I was just a little bit of girl. You know, he already heard stories about my drug use and me being in Nauja and Nau Prison. So I flushed all and that was last time I had used drugs. My dad was living in Skygasty,

once much Virginia, this guy didn't like it. I mean, it's back was, there's no cell phone signal. What guy didn't like it? My fiance didn't, John, didn't like it. I mean, there was no running water no power no nothing no selfless egg no she can't get a hold of nobody so it kind of felt like trapped there John was trapped or yet John and Amanda were getting dope sick dope sick is the slaying for withdrawal symptoms which can occur within the first 24 hours after their last use.

Signs of meth withdrawal include anxiety, decreased appetite, body aches, hopelessness, and hallucinations. From what we had understood once we got there, he was going to be going back, that it would just be her. Somewhere along the way, plans have changed. I don't know when,. I don't know when. Um, and I don't know how. I hardly recognized my sister. She had been on meth so bad, injecting it, smoking it, snorting it.

That she was nothing more than skin-on bones. I did not recognize her at all. Lucky for them, Anna had enough medical training to help Amanda and John come down comfortably, or as comfortably as possible. You typically won't die from meth withdrawal, but more often than not death feels like an easier option. During the first week, she was back. Everything was fine except that her and John slept quite a bit coming down from the

myth. They would sleep most of the day, wake up about two or three o'clock in the afternoon, and then go back to sleep about five or six until same time, about the next day. After about a week, they were awake more and then we'd hear them arguing in between themselves. If they needed to go to town, I was left at the house and it would just be Larry, Amanda, and John that would go to town.

John wouldn't let a man out of a sight. We thought maybe they were something there that I wasn't understanding, but obviously I didn't understand full scope of things. Anna started to notice a change in their father's behavior as Amanda sobered up. Larry was treating Amanda like a little girl again and it alarmingly reminded Anna of their childhood.

She seemed okay with it, but increasingly throughout that next week, Larry seemed to be starting to get a little more possessive, not of me or anything or his property, more so Amanda. He started showing almost like a jealousy and quiet rage towards John. I didn't understand it. And it started making me real agitated because Larry was getting more agitated. She was getting more agitated. Larry was showing more jealousy towards John and Possession over Amanda Which did it just struck me as weird. I didn't know what was going on They'd have conversations the entire time they were gone a town and he'd come back

And he'd be in a different mood if you worse every day Anna attempted to warn Amanda about their father's behavior, but the warnings went unheeded Amanda had her daddy back, as if the sexual trauma as they experienced as children were nothing more than a bad dream. She was the favorite child, even when we were younger, and she knew it even through foster care and adoption, everything. She always looked at me and told me that it was my fault she didn't have her daddy anymore. She never understood the true implications behind it until we heard her high school and I finally broke down the told her and then she flat out called

me a liar. Their father's behavior then did a complete 180 from what Anna observed before her sister's arrival. Anna was trying to sober her sister and John up while their father enabled Amanda. At one point Larry decided to spoil his daughters and bought all the ingredients needed to make drugs. Oh boy, presence. The only other thing that really caught my attention was that during the first weeks they were there, John kept trying to get Amanda to get the ingredients for them to make a batch of meth. The quick method, I guess, no programming or anything. Larry had agreed against what I thought was natural and wrong. He just said, well, they won't succeed. Okay, well, the byproduct that I guess should have been gassed to make the crystal was the gassed

of it, stayed a liquid. She kept it in a sealed jar and kept it put up. I wasn't sure what all that was about while she was even keeping it. But I was just told to keep my mouth shut because I wasn't going to fail anyways. The quick method, Anna referred to, is a way to make meth that doesn't require an elaborate lab, a la, breaking bad. This method needed a few pseudo-fedron pills to be crushed up and mixed with common household chemicals in an empty two-liter bottle.

The quick method is a simple process, but Amanda somehow got it wrong. Without the crystal form of the drug, John and Amanda had no choice but to finish sobering up. Anna felt as though Larry was grooming Amanda all over again as an adult. Larry targeted Amanda, gained her trust, and filled her needs. John must have noticed the change in their behavior because he called his mother to say goodbye. I know when he did it was his biological daddies birthday, the twelfth. Well, the thirteenth of February, he called and I said, you know it should be your biological daddies birthday today. And he said, yeah, I said, well, I see you're not going to make it for violent times or

you're going to make it for Valentine's or you're going to make it for Easter. And he said, uh, mom, I'm, I'm going to be like my two daddies. And by honest, I said, hey, old son, your two daddies are dead. You know, I mean, I just, that's just, boy, I tell. And he said, I know, mom, and I said, well, what you going to do about your disability check? He said, where I'm going, I'm going to eat them. On Valentine's Day, Larry McClure went to town by himself for the first time since John

and Amanda's arrival. On February 14th, Larry decided to go town by himself. It made me nervous being at the house with both of them because they're about that excited and know what was going to happen or everything. But when he got back back he had stakes and everything for a big Valentine stake dinner with all of us. The only thing we had to cook on at that point in time was the wood stove. So he did stakes and potatoes and stuff on top of the wood stove. And Amanda and John and even Larry got into the wine pretty good. I had a little bit that he'd offered me to cut by a truck

take my time. I don't like alcohol. I don't like drinking alcohol around people I don't trust. Anna was uncertain if she should be more afraid of Larry or her sister. The last time Anna had a drink poured by Amanda, it turned into quite a nightmare. Back in one of my business when I had returned to Minnesota after I left for those 18, I had gone to see my sister. Her son was still just a baby, three or four months old. I had gone to her house in Madeline, Minnesota, to see her. Just stopping and saying, hey, she offered me

a drink. I didn't think anything of it because I had no reason to believe any of this about my sister at that point. She offered me a drink and I, you know, I started getting drowsy and I didn't think anything of it. I didn'tin-night there anyways before I hit the road again. So I sat back on the couch and I went to sleep. I woke up five days later. Naked. In her bed with six naked men around me that I did not know. She had drugged me and then sold me to them for their pleasure until it's on the dark.

A Valentine's Day dinner with your father, who used to molest you, your drug addicted sister, and her drug addicted fiancee. It all seems bizarre enough to make someone uneasy, doesn't it? Not to mention you're in the woods in the middle of nowhere? In any case, the romantic gathering of unlikely dinner guests stole Anna's attention away from an odd request made that morning. Earlier that day, before he left for town, he had given us a 50-foot section of the old tape, which I didn't think anything of.

We'd been using it to tie down metal and stuff to take it to scrap yard. And everything we kept going to scrap yard and everything we can't go into scrap yard Which are rich lents and who gave you that word like you said so I told you to dig something with it Larry did He told us to cut it into seven equal pieces. I didn't know What the plan was for I thought maybe he had another Load of metal. He was, we were going to get the next day and just needed to tie down. He wanted to make sure we had enough sections of it.

I didn't know. Mule tape is a flat polyester rope. Due to its fine braid, Mule tape can withstand the strain of thousands of pounds before breaking. It was after we were done eating. He said, well, I think we evolved not to know each other well enough that we can do a trust exercise. And he already knew I was edgy around John.

Just I didn't know him. I had seen some of his attitude, but I didn't know him. And I don't really trust people in my back. So he goes, well, you know, John, you tie Anna up, how many you want? He said, it's just a trust, I can't trust. So I don't know if two weeks of trust building would be enough for me to let my rapist

and two drug addicts tie me up. But for some, ungodly reason, Anna allowed it to happen. John McGuire and his fiance Amanda McClure took a road trip from Minnesota to Alabama to visit John's mother. When their car broke down, Amanda's father, Larry McClure, came to their rescue and brought them back to his home in West Virginia. After Valentine's Day dinner, Larry suggested that they get to know one another better through a trust exercise.

To start the exercise, Larry instructed John to tie up his older daughter, Anna. Well, okay, it doesn't look like I had much, much voice. I'll three stand around me. He did. He didn't tie up. I was able to get myself loose. So I got myself loose, and he had me tie her up, she got loose. Well then, Larry goes, well, let me show you guys how to tie a proper knot.

And he had John lay down right there so he could tie him up. So he got him down and he pulled his feet up behind him and tied off his feet. And then pulled his arms back and tied off his wrists. And he said, well now try to get loose. Well he had tied his feet in a knot that I'm not familiar with. Where he couldn't get it loose, well, when he turned around to sit up

and lean over to untie his feet, my sister Amanda grabbed the wine bottle which she had re-corked. I guess to keep it from sharing, sharing you what she was gonna do, I didn't. She took it and she laid across the back of his head as hard as she could. He didn't lose consciousness. He was dazed.

And it allowed Larry to get to jump on. Anna allegedly had no idea the attack was coming. Larry didn't grab the length of rope that he had us cut. And fashion wanted him around his arms. To hold up above and fashioned when I get around his arms To hold up above his head he put one around his neck So that he was afraid to move and kept the other one around his ankles And he made him sit on the command old antique couch that was there and Then made me hold the lines from behind most of them tied off

This was just shortly after dark. I'm guessing maybe that time of year is maybe six, seven o'clock. And then they continued Amanda Larry to the terms throughout the entire night, just yelling in John's face, harassing, threatening his life. First they'd threaten him, yelling in John's face, harassing, threatening his life. First they threaten him, and then they'd offer to let him get into, to be knocked unconscious and put into the trunk of somebody's truck and take him back to Minnesota so whoever was looking for him up there could deal with him.

And then they'd go back to threatening him again. Larry and Amanda never planned on letting John go, and he knew it. They were just threatening to kill him. And some of the worst ways imaginable. They threatened to start cutting off his hands of feet while he was still alive and watching. They didn't care anything they could do to tear it from either guy. He was just saying you've got the one on the purse,. I don't know what they were trying to accuse him of. The one thing Amanda did accuse him of was being under

a couple of police officers. I do remember that. And then Larry jumped on the band wagon with that. And he said, no, I'm not. You've got the wrong person. This is who I am. He kept giving his name, his birthday, his social security number and everything. and they just kept

all in and all and then they'd give him a time frame. Well you've got till 3 a.m. well 3 a.m. came away what you've got till 6 a.m. During the interrogation they accused John of being more than an undercover cop. Amanda suggested her fiance was an FBI agent. John's mother had no idea how the McClure's came to that conclusion. Well, he drove to this battle to check which was over $900. And I imagine he was peddling droves too, you know, I ain't stupid mama. And you know, I don't really know what all he done, but I'm pretty sure he did do, you know, sail drugs.

But now he was in a federal witness person. My son went to prison in a fair amount of subtle cause he wouldn't run on somebody, so I know he wasn't an informant. So I don't know where in the hell she got that from. Amanda and John lived together and used to buy drugs with one another regularly. It seems impossible to imagine a world where John could smoke meth with Amanda during the day and interview Hannibal Lecter at night. But in her drug-addled mind, she found a way to rationalize it.

Well, the truth of the matter is, he is a fed. I knew he was a feder after I had a rest at three times hanging out with him and I'm the only person going to jail. Yeah. And then they told me in the squad, dude, why are you around him? Yeah. And I'm like, well, the other people,

I'm living with our feds too, so I might as well just stay put where I'm at, you know? If they keep me alive, there's a reason for it. Yeah. You know, and I told my dad that, and I told my sister that, and they care, I said, you know, you're not just messing with a reason for it. You know, and I told my dad that and I told my sister that and They care. I said, you know, you're not just messing with a man's life. I said you're messing with someone whose name is it assumed name It's not even his real name. It's not his birth name because he is a federal

Yeah, I said you you thought that because of prior incident Prior and the last time I got out of jail He tried bailing me out. He tried calling 27 bondsman to Minnesota. I don't bond out of jail because no bond Feel touched me because I run right all the time I go to courts of handcuffs, you know, right and he even called a federal Bond's man that he used to work for and they said no, we're not touching it After the McCleurs tortured John for over 24 hours, Larry decided to go all CIA on them, probably with a few extra cues from Homeland Security. They had taken some old cushions out of the camper,

and that was done before Amanda had even got there, so I don't know how long Larry had been planning this, because he had traded up cushions in there for different ones. He had me put them down on the floor and throw a blanket crossing and he told him he finally told John he said well we're gonna give you some sodium pentathol and you'll go sleep then we'll load you in the back of a truck and take you back up to the sodium. He said when you wake up that's where

you'll be and people couldn't deal with you how do they want. Larry McClure watched too many movies. Sodium Pentathol, also known as Truth Serum, is a rapid onset and aesthetic. Special operations and interrogators have experimented with this truth serum on people who are unwilling or unable to provide information. Those injected with sodium pentathol become highly suggestible, leading to potentially false confessions. In the United States, the legality and ethicality of sodium pentathol are under serious debate.

It wasn't sodium pentathol. She went and got to the needles that she had and she filled them jane full with that liquid that was supposed to have been meth. But I was the only one with knowledge of nursing skills and they knew that. And she knew my qualifications. She knew that I knew how to find a vein. And she basically told me she said,

you're gonna put it in the grotted and you're gonna do it. They stood over me and made me inject him with both full needles. They said that, they waited and they went to the other room. They said that should be enough to kill them. They just told him they were waiting for him to go sleep. Here he was still tied up because Larry had retied him with his hands and feet where he couldn't even get his hands loose this time. But to go an extra step he had taken the one that was around his neck and turned it into a loose,

like a pinch and not tied to his feet. So that he, his body could relax or he strangle himself and then made him lay out his belly on his cushions. John endured three straight days of torture with no food, water, or sleep. When Larry instructed his daughter to dose John, he made a miscalculation. The large volume of meth they administered to John was enough to kill most people, but he had built up a tolerance after years of emphetamine abuse. Six o'clock in the morning, we rolled around and the liquid they had dosed him up with didn't do what they thought it did.

It would. It gave him a drill and boost and he would start to try to break free. I guess it had just enough of the properties he was used to in meth. In it, then it worked as basically liquid curd and strength and then something to kill him. So he looked at me and he looked at me and he said that if I'm wearing my sons to live, that I had to finish off. And he stood there and washed it, stood over me while he made me something. And because he wasn't suffocating quick enough, he made me grab a hold of that string that

was around his neck and pulled it as tight as I could and while I was holding his head down. And he pushed me until he stopped moving. Amanda joined the murder and helped pull on the rope tied around John's neck while Anna pushed his head into the pillows. John's meth-fueled strength helped him fight so long that Larry jumped on his back. Hey, Amanda had already used a piece of cloth to gag him. Um, he told me to hold his face down, pillow, and not return his hat. But he wasn't giving in as quick as Larry thought he should have.

Was like, he told me to grab the meal tape and pull the newspaper. Um, when he started to buck up in the last few seconds, Larry took his own foot and put it in his back, stood up on his back to continue holding down. John fought under the weight of three people, as long as he could before he passed out. A few minutes later, John slowly and miserably slipped into death. He had me use straightener contractor garbage bags. At first, and I thought he would leave it go at that.

At first, he told me to do clean up. He told me to take the cushions outside, throw them on the birch pole, the blankets and everything, and then wrap him up and tie him up in the blankets. He was the end, and then put him inside of the car. And one of these garbage bags, and that's what I did. Later, he had me back to the truck up to the porch,

because he said he was gonna find one of these mine chefs and dump the body on. Okay, he made me drag it through the house and onto the back of the truck. They covered it up with a tarp. Then he told us to get the truck and him and a man to act, nothing was wrong. They acted like nothing was wrong and told me I had to go with the town. And they went driving around town for a good portion of the day, with him still on the back of the truck.

Taking a day-long joyride with a body seems like a risky decision. But when you live out in the middle of nowhere, law enforcement is few and far between. As John's body rolled back and forth in the back of Larry's truck, Amanda began covering their tracks. Amanda had got his sign in information for his Facebook. She knew that his connection to her would raise questions or excitement among people she knew in Minnesota who knew her as Firefox. I don't know what her dealings were there. I know that she was involved with Mendoza Cartel.

She said she was involved with a couple others and that she had been handling big runs and drugs. I knew that she said she was facing a rico in Minnesota, but there was nothing I could do without any help. She had signed into his Facebook and then posted the comments, Firefox's dead, I don't kill the bitch, aha, aha, I kept going on to excite everybody.

That was mutual friends with both of them. Until she started getting responses and then she shut everything down. Amanda told her sister that she was running large drug statements for the Mendoza cartel and facing a Rico act under the name Firefox. Amanda told her sister that she was running large drug statements for the Mendoza cartel, and facing a rico act under the name Firefox. Amanda wanted her sister to think she was more important than she was. If you don't know, the Mendoza cartel spans from Arizona to New Mexico, dealing the finest Bolivian cocaine. They are ruthless, violent, and completely fictional. That's right. The Mendoza Cartel is from the popular TV series Queen of the South. Amanda awkwardly wanted her life to sound like an episode of Suns of Anarchy, when in reality it felt more like trailer

park boys went dark. But I know that she wanted it to make it appear to everybody in Minnesota that she hadn't met her end. And then that he had just dropped off face and earth. When Larry felt it was dark enough, they drove back home and started hiding John's body. When we got back, they opted to wait until dark. And then they picked the place out in New York for the initial burial and they said, well, you're gonna have to cut the bag off of and get the blankets out from around them and everything. The first time he was buried, he was buried in nothing but the clothes he had been wearing. Yes, the first time he was buried.

They made me dig the whole burying and cover it up. time he was buried. Within hours of murdering and burying Amanda's fiance, her relationship with her father took a bizarre turn. The very night after he ridden around with Jones' body in the truck and everything was after the first burial, things changed between Larry and Amanda and there wasn't much privacy in the house at all. They didn't care. They just flat out didn't care. They started having a sexual relationship. She believed that she was some kind of a harbinger of the new age. He believed that, and she did too, that they were a part of the new world order that was going to eradicate the system of the United States and bring forth

God's will. That through them and their children together, they could do that. He considered her a golden child and that their children would be blessed. He kept saying how she was born to be his wife and that was the only reason she was born. Their children would have been blessed with birth defects. At times, Larry forced Anna to watch him and his daughter Amanda have sex. That was when Anna learned the motive behind her family's madness. Two days before Valentine's Day, Larry asked Amanda to marry him. Amanda said yes to her biological father's proposal. Why wouldn't she?

But they had a problem. What were they gonna do with John? A normal person would have driven John to his mother, but normal people don't marry their family members. So Larry and Amanda plotted his murder, of course. My dad said that I would never have to deal with Minnesota on my outstanding drug charge because I didn't want to go back to Minnesota because I've never been sober there. Since I've left there, I've never been high.

You know, and I may also have to go on up to that and I understand that. I've always owned up to my charge, so my dad said I wouldn't have to go on up to that, and I understand that. And now, I've always on up to my targets, but my guess that I wouldn't have to deal with that then, that it would be a new start, a fresh start, and no one would bother me. At least she stayed sober, I guess. It is legal to marry your second cousin in every state in the United States,

and legal to marry your first cousin in about half of them. Believe it or not. I know this goes without saying, but it is illegal to marry your first cousin in about half of them. Believe it or not. I know this goes without saying, but it is illegal to marry your biological father in all 50 states. Amanda didn't argue with the legality though, because daddy knows best. It is challenging to have a bridal shower in the backyard

with your fiance's body two feet below you. So the McClure is demanded and a move it. A body would just, you know, ruin the festivities. But after two weeks, they had decided that, you know, it was time to move the body somewhere else. There was gonna be some work done on the property. We were gonna be taking off the back half of the house and everything.

They didn't want it there. So they had me go to dig it up. I got the body partially dug up. It wasn't even fully dug up. And Amanda insisted that he wasn't truly dead. John's body was in Rigor Mordus before they buried him. And then he was in the ground for two weeks, so it was impossible that he was still alive. However, Amanda, believed John's superhuman ability to stay alive underground, was due to a drug he used before his murder. Because when we were in Minnesota, we had an eye on both ibimethgysers. And you know what meslem is? Meslem. Messlin? It's a drug compound mixture of like a dog, euthanization drug.

And it's almost like from out of high, but it would keep like if something's in the ground for a long time, it'll keep rats away from it. OK. It's like a red little compound. He and he had shot himself up with that before that Minnesota. Messlin was an old drug that the army used to use to avoid those guys being POWs, where they could play dead, be put in the ground

for up to so many days, 37 days, 70 days, I think was a max. And the body could go into a coma type state and then he could survive it because of rats, it would be them alive. Okay. And John had injected himself with that before we left Minnesota.

Does it give you an hour or what? Yeah, what did he do? Okay. To make sure John wouldn't crawl his way out of the whole walking dead style, Amanda claims her sister and Larry pin the body to the ground using multiple pieces of rebar. They tried to shove one piece of rebar through his head

and they missed in a rock so they're you know metal bed rail frames. They took, there was four of them sitting around there somewhere. They took those and they powered them through him. I don't know how many made it through and how many didn't. I know one made it through his testicles. Uh huh. Or did they, what did they use like a sledgehammer or something?

Yeah. They mean, okay. Who was holding like, how did that work as far as the bedroom? My sister held it and my dad pounded it. You mentioned that somebody took one of the stakes, the bedposts, bedroom, and showed it through his testicles. Why was that done? Because they couldn't figure out how he was in the ground, they wanted to make sure that, because they didn't think he was dead, they wanted to make sure he wasn't going to get up and walk. Once the McClure's took care of their zombie problem, it was time for a wedding.

Q here comes the bride, because this party's going to happen. To pay for her unholy metrimony, Amanda started pulling money out of John's bank account. He was and then now he started having me do it. But I mean, they can take the footage from it all the way back. I know ATMs take pictures and if you try and block the cameras, it won't let you get the money. And so my dad and I got married in March 11th is marriage date. So this would have been all took place roughly within a week to a week and a half before that marriage date. Amanda originally planned on marrying her father

using Anna's last name to avoid legal trouble, but found a different loophole. Beginning of March, just after the first rape aerial, they went to Virginia. I don't remember the name of the town, I believe it was Castle One, I'm sure. But they went to the courthouse over there and applied for marriage license. They later told me Thedn applied for it under my name, she gave me my credentials back. They applied for it under her name and hence, at the time her name was Amanda Michelle Naylor because of her previous marriage. Yes, she had a little divorce. But what she stated on the marriage certificate was that

her father's name, and she used our adoptive dad's name, but she changed his last name from home to Naylor, so that she didn't have to stay that she was previously married and everything linked back. About two weeks later, I can tell you the exact name was March 11, two days before his birthday. They returned to Virginia and I was taken aside by Larry and told beforehand that I was to stay on there like I was in the agreement. Larry McClure and his daughter Amanda were married that day at the United Methodist Church.

I'm sure if the official knew the nature of the ceremony, he wouldn't have touched it with a sacred 10-foot cross. They had arranged to see a pastor there. It was a retired pastor from that church that came in to do their wedding ceremony. That's where they were married that day. From that day forward, you know, by anybody's standard, I guess you wanna put it, they were married no matter how legally or unlegal your unethical of us. They acted like two peas in a pot. They

knew each other's actions for actions. There was times when he was colon shots, there was times when she was colon shots. And I had equal threats from both. She was just as adamant about her as he was that she'd known ever since she was a little girl that he was intended to be her husband. After the McClure's returned from Virginia, they celebrated their honeymoon by digging John up one more time. Two weeks ago by and they were still insistent

the body needed to be moved. And so they sent me to task again of uncovering the body. When I got the body uncovered, I had to remove the bedrails and pull them back through his body. Then he came out there with a steel knife, handsong, and the axe, and told me that I had to remove the limbs and the head from the torso. He had her holding bags that had been doubled together and lime had been thrown in to where each part of the body that came off went into a bagging was tied up separately. With the head, it got smashed up quite a bit, but he had wandered it, put it to a bucket of water, and lime thrown in the bucket, and then later made me dig it out of the bucket and

put it in. To a bag, all of these pieces were loaded each bag independently onto the back of his truck, and taken to a spot on the other side of the property that he had already picked out for. I isolation and he made me help him carry it down here. I'm throwing it all in. I believe he threw a bag of my clothes that were there and another bag of clothes that everything where he made us strip down after the first night and put it all in a bag. He said he didn't want anything linking back to DNA or anything. It was also

thrown down there and he proceeded to, he proceeded to cover the hole. And from there on out we, I was told I was not to speak of it, was not to say anything. The McClure's buried John's body a third time, about five feet from Larry's house in a shallow grave. While Anna was cutting up John's body, his mother was calling Larry looking for her son. I called and talked to the minister. Now he ain't a Mr. Larry, McClure. That's the dead yard to bunch.

He don't deserve a Mr. I'm sorry, that's his way guy debunked. He don't deserve a mystery. I'm sorry, that's just the way I feel. He's sorry, piece of. And I said, I mean, he's sorry than dirt. But I called him and he lied to me. He said, well, my son, he said, your son and Amanda laughed at bottom of truck, a red Dodge pickup. And I said, well, I told him I bought a matriolk, a red, Dodge pickup.

And I said, well, I told him I said, well, if I don't hear from a missing person, he'll be reported and I'm hiring a private detective. You know, he said, well, if they call, I'll let him know, but they probably gone to the Indian Reservation because Amanda's got enough Indian in her to go to the Indian Reservation at Oklahoma. Larry ran into a dilemma after marrying his daughter. It is difficult to introduce someone as your wife after introducing that same person as your daughter.

That's when Larry developed another brilliant idea. If the McClure's moved to Kentucky, they would be free of John's body and any knowledge of their family ties. Beginning of April, there was a piece of property over in Kentucky that he had constantly been talking about wanting to go and purchase. Beginning of April when he was told he had two months to get off the property, at least that's what he told us, then he started looking into that property even more and worked out to deal on it. And we had traveled over to Kentucky and were basically staying with some family

over there while he worked on the property. I mean they they became increasingly more agitated at me constantly yelling at me, maintaining control. He had the only phone that would really call out. The vehicle was his. There was never enough. Even if he sent me to town, there was never enough diesel in it for me to get anywhere past the people that knew him. That would, if I needed help, just take me right back to where he was.

Larry started introducing his daughter to strangers as his wife. To make a living in Kentucky, Larry designed a business based on what he learned in prison. Like I said, if you go asking any of the neighbors around there and buy his daughter a mando, you're not going to find out anything. He intentionally introduced her to everybody he was working with when she was there with us as Brittany. That was what the property in Kentucky was supposed to be all about.

They didn't care how family responded. The property in Kentucky was supposed to be their new star S husband and wife and she was gonna be introduced as such and that's the life she was going to live. He was going to use, he wanted me to help him. And I told him, no, he wanted me to go back to Carnival. He said, because you know the Carnival and everything,

it's not going to matter if a few kids disappear every now and then. He said, I want you to pick out kids. And I said, my way, I will lead you in peace. I told them no. He had his grand plan of having his own courthouse and she was all for it. She didn't care. They wanted to start a courthouse and then find young girls and boys and get a hold of the sex of her registry and start selling them for registered users' use

because they, in their mind, they would not say anything because they would be in just as much trouble as Larry. For doing so, but they could have their perverted needs met. Right. You heard that correctly. Larry McClure wanted to be the Mark Cuban of sex offenders. Yes, he even had a whole plan figured out for how you do it. He kept going on and bragging about how he was in prison and he didn't start with this

until after I made it out there and after John Stank here. But he can't brag about how when he was in prison, he was learning first law degree that they had the part of the teaching was going through old cases and seeing old recipes of how other people had done. And he said, I learned all this and it taught me to loopholes. He said basically they just taught me to do it better. And he did nothing but brag about that. He said he was going to put it to use.

And that he would already have a baseline tell because he could look up sex offenders and see what their provocations were and be able to cater to those needs. While reading through those old sex offender files, he must have overlooked why a few of them returned to prison because Larry McClure forgot to register himself in Kentucky. Larry McClure married his daughter Amanda after murdering her fiance John McWire. Larry then moved to Kentucky with his new bride and his older daughter Anna, where he designed a brothel that would prostitute missing children to registered sex offenders. While living in Kentucky, they stayed with family, so Larry could set up his

new business. Anna used her access to family members as a chance to plan her escape, while Larry was preoccupied with his brothel. Eventually they started, I don't know if it's because I gained their trust or what they started leaving me there with the family. And we worked together a plan that while they were gone for several hours one day, I went to help one of my cousins, fix her lawnmower, and her and I made up the story that we went for cigarettes at the truck stop.

And I jumped into the semi with the trucker and took off. Meanwhile, I was at my other cousin's house and was hiding out there until I was able to get a hold of my fiance back here, John William coffee the second. It was the first time I was able to get a hold of him and the time that I'd been gone. And he sent me money through Walmart to get a bus ticket back home.

And my cousin helped me get to the bus station, made sure I was safe. She was the only one that had my phone number. I only wanted one person to be able to get a whole of me. Because I knew I didn't trust. My sister Amanda, I didn't trust Larry. But I knew that they had helped me out of the situation. I knew I could trust them.

Anna made it to North Carolina, where she pretended to be dead at a fear Larry would find her. In the meantime, John hadn't called his family on Mother's Day, Easter, or two of his children's birthdays. Finally, his oldest daughter filed a missing persons report. I was going to make it, and I talked to some lawyers and they said it would best to do it in Minnesota, where he was from, you know, because that was his own, you know, causing

live there. And his oldest daughter and her mother made a missing report. But by then, you know, we bought new, you know. While John's family was searching for him, Anna received a call from her cousin indicating her father put his brothel into action. My cousin had gotten hold of me at one point. I don't remember when, but it was after I got back here

and she said, do you know that Larry and Amanda have all kinds of little girls at that property out there in Kentucky? She said, do you know that have all kinds of little girls at that property out there in Kentucky. She said, do you know they have all kinds of little girls out here? She said the neighbor mentions something about it and how they're just slowly disappearing one at a time they don't know where they're going. Anna believed that Larry's business didn't go exactly according to plan, so he switched up the model. Instead of keeping the kidnap children on the property, Anna believed her father was selling the children off like he had tried to do with her. He had got pissed one day instead of hating a guy down near Charleston that wanted to

purchase me for $5,000 to use for his stud horses. And your papers go on too? He was going to, he was talking seriously about selling me to that guy for $5,000 to use for sexually for his stud horses on his farm. And just selling me like a piece of property. No. Larry might have gotten away with it too, if it wasn't for that pesky sex offender registry. In September of 2019, West Virginia state Police arrested Larry McGuire for failure to register

as a sex offender. Larry sat in jail for two days and was living large off John's money that Amanda would send him. However, when Amanda stopped sending the money, Larry turned on her and told law enforcement about John's body. Larry told the police the location where John was buried and blamed Amanda for the entirety of the murder. Law enforcement uncovered John McGuire's remains on September 24th, 2019, and arrested

Amanda shortly after. When Anna Chaudry learned of her sister and father's arrests, she came out of hiding. On Friday, August 14, 2020, at 9.15 pm, Larry McClure pledged guilty to first-degree murder. The judge sentenced Larry to life in prison without mercy, which is the backwoods way of saying, without the possibility of parole. Amanda McClure followed suit and pled guilty to second degree murder on October 1st, 2020. The same judge sentenced Amanda to 40 years in prison. Women always get a lighter sentence for some reason,

no matter how fucked up the crime is. Three months later, Anna Chaudry received the same sentence after she pleaded guilty to second degree murder. During the court proceedings, John's mother, for the first time, learned what Larry and his daughters did to her son. I did not know they'd done that because before the Senate sent for Larry, I had agreed for Amanda to take second degree, because I was ready for it to get over with. But God is my witness if I don't know them, they done all this, I had a push for a trial or a push for first degree.

In my heart, I know what I'd have done, if I don't know them, man. I just took my derranger down in my broth, my little derranger, and I just shot him and went to jail. Now, I know how I feel back then, and I know that's wrong, but people don't understand how it feels your only child getting gone,

and the person ain't gonna get punished. Comes him sitting in jail, ain't punishing him. He's got it better than I do. I mean, he's got, he's guaranteed three meals. He's guaranteed to be it. He's guaranteed, he's guaranteed everything that I might not have one day. I might be homeless one day. You never know.

I know that clips a little hard to understand with the thick accent, so let me break it down for you. John's mother says that if she had learned what the McClure's had done to her son, she would have hidden a pistol in her bra and shot Larry in the courtroom. Well, I was scared I'd get locked up if I said what I wanted to do, because I cut like a sailor. I was so calm I couldn't believe it.

I told him, I knew they were going straight to him, and we'll be looking at him, and I told him that one of them three is going to die for what I do. It's not all three, because I just him that one of them three is gonna die for, it's not all three. Because I just feel that way. I feel like I'm gonna live to see. And that's the only closure I think I'll get is when they're dead and gone. I'll be honest with you, I'm gonna be right across the street

when they walk out on this side. Because I know exactly what day and what time. Because I'm registered on that line, saying that you can register. I'm going to know, and all I asked them to do is when Larry does, let me spit on him. I just want to spit on his grave. Asking to spit on Larry's grave

wasn't the only request John's mother made in court. I asked the judge, could they write me a note saying, I killed your son John Thomas McGuire every day and meled it to me and he didn't do it. I wouldn't have opened them but at least they I felt like they wouldn't have forgotten but they really don't give a damn. They really do not care. That's like the Judge ask Larry some well now that you know how it all happened would you do it again and he was in handcuffs and he just done like this and said, things happened for a reason. Said, yeah, I do it again. I said,

are you full of shit?" At the end of the court proceedings, Karen thanked Larry for giving her son's remains back. Now, I did tell him I forgave him and I thanked him for letting me get my son body. Because it wasn't for him, I wouldn't never know what my son was. You know, to this day, I'd still be looking for my son. And I went by that house when I went up there. I pulled up in the driveway and looked. I had to see what my son seen, the last thing he seen.

And I can just imagine what he thought, all he was probably worrying about was his kids and me. To this day, John's mother won't forgive herself for allowing the prosecution to offer Amanda and Anna a plea deal. But it brings her peace to know that her son is no longer suffering.

Amanda and Anna got second grade, cause I agreed to it. Gets my better judgment and I still hate myself for it. And my grandkids said it's okay, but it's not. Because I just feel like what they done, they should have got life. You know, but they got 40 and that way I'm 20. My son's life was worth more than 20 years.

I hate to say it the way I'm gonna say it, but I don't hate to worry about him eating and don't worry about him cold and sleeping on the park, man. He's got eats, and like I said, he's in heaven. He don't have nothing to worry about. He's in a better place than I am. After John was murdered,

his mother lost her house and everything she had to remember him. Between the house fire and the trial, she hasn't had a chance to grieve. Like I said, on Valentine's morning, I mean, on each the morning I woke up, my trailer was on fire in the kitchen. I tried to resist footlong, so I was on one end.

Me and my little doll got out, but my little doll ran back in, so I lost my little show-offer. And I made it part to the ground. I mean I my pictures of my daddy my daddy died when I was nine. All Johns babies pictures anything he made for me when his baby his baby but everything I lost everything. And then I got another shade of last night storm come through and Liam fell on top of it last night and water just pouring in there. I had to brace it up the middle of the night. And I haven't grieved. I haven't sitting down and just grieved because soon as I found out I had to make plans to get this funeral

done, knowing we didn't have no money. And then I had to worry about my grand babies and not in the sentence and phrases. And it just got over with. So next time for me to try to breathe but I don't cry in front of the kit, grandkids cause they cry enough, you know. Karen puts on a heart exterior but deep down she is going through immense suffering alone and needs someone to help her deal with the pain. Karen doesn't have the money for a professional help and can barely afford to visit John's children once a year. I just tell the mom and the deities, just check on them.

I mean, my son was 38. We never thought that. Kind of keep close. I was trying to let him grow up and come on home. I shouldn't have just went on and got him, but that's, you know, that's something I can't change. Just watch him. I mean, and love him as much as you can. Because that's my only child. And I can't talk to him no more. I can't. I have a thing on my phone where he called his oldest daughter and left her a message and it said, I love you baby and she sent it to me.

So when we get up there in Minnesota, we're going to build a bear and get all of us a bear with that saying that I love you so I can hear him." While Larry McClure was in jail, his father passed away and in court, he brought it up to John's mother. This piece of shit Larry dared to relate his grief over his father's death to Karen's suffering over her son's murder, a murder he planned, and committed. I hate to break it to him, but Karen didn't torture Larry's father for three days. Karen didn't pull out her rope tied around his father's neck while he slowly suffocated below her weight.

Karen didn't dismantle his father's body and leave it to rot in a shallow grave. How dare you? You self-absorbed piece of shit. How dare you stare into the eyes of this man's mother and claim you have any inkling as to how she feels? Most parents love their children because they see them as the best version of themselves. Our children bring us joy happiness and a sense of meaning in the most beautiful of ways. When our children disappoint us, we hope they will rectify it and live a better life than

we did. Larry McClure loved his children, I guess, because they gave him a sense of power in a perverse way. Larry enjoyed the control he had over his daughters mentally, physically, and even sexually. Now, because of Larry McClure's immorality, a good mother is left with nothing more than a voicemail to remember her son. Larry lost her home,

and the trailer she's staying in is falling apart as you listen to this episode. All while her son's murderers are living better inside a prison than they were outside of it. Thank you for joining us. Go check out our latest perk. It's only available for plus members at swordinscale.com slash plus or the iOS or Android app. Set of six stickers, look really sharp on your laptop or anywhere else you want to put

them. Maybe your neighbor's car if they're annoying. Alright, see you next time. Stay safe. So, Mike, this is Tether from Dallas, Texas, and I just wanted to say that I listened to Episode 99, and I don't think anything has ever touched me quite like that. I really, really appreciate it as a victim, of sexual abuse, and as someone who struggles with it every day. And I see it not only in myself,

but my husband who has struggled with it, it really helps me to know that I am not alone. And I appreciate everything that you do in this podcast and the truth that you tell. Thank you. you