Sword and Scale - Episode 200

Episode Date: October 18, 2021

Raised in Pittsburgh, home of the Steelers, Andrea Curry Demus should have had a great life in a city rated “most livable;” but Andrea didn’t have a lot of money and she wasn’t very smart. All she wanted was a family and children, but she was now in her late thirties and time was almost up for her. Would her extreme desire for a baby turn into reality, or would she pay the ultimate price for her obsessions? And who else would pay just so Andrea could have what she wanted?See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Sword and Scale contains adult themes and violence and is not intended for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised. But police say they've found behind the flies visible from the sidewalk outside 493 Ellis Street is a brutal violent murder scene. Hello and welcome to season 8 episode 200 of Sword and Scale. A show that reveals that the worst monsters are real. N.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.A.R.R.A. I just want to take a moment to thank you all on this 200th episode. Thank you for being here, thank you for staying here, continuing to come back and listen and telling all your friends about the show. To you it's just a podcast, but to me and everyone that works here, it's our life.

It means everything to us and all of you out there mean everything to us as well. Those of you that support us are our extended family. And we want to thank you for all you've done for us for the last eight years. Thank you guys. God bless. In 2021, everything we want seems to be at our fingertips. Quite literally. No matter what it is, it's just a few clicks away. It's become even more pronounced over the last year where you can get just about anything delivered. Sushi, groceries, you can even get a career

to send a package for you from one place to another using nothing more than your mobile phone. We're used to using our smart phones to get just about anything we want at any time. In fact, the generation that's growing up now won't even have a concept of having to wait for things. But that's not reality, isn't? At least not entirely. There are still some things in life that take a tremendous amount of effort, or cold hard cash. And if money isn't something we have, it all comes down to effort and persistence. But even then, as the Rolling Stones once said, you can't always get what you want.

Andrea Curry wanted what a lot of women want, actually. A marriage, a home, a baby, especially that part about a baby. Born and raised in Pittsburgh, a.k.a. Steel City, things weren't always easy for Andrea, her mom, and her two sisters. Although Pittsburgh has been ranked one of the country's most livable cities, this isn't the case for everyone. Once the steel mill shut down in the 70s, it took some families' generations to recover. And although the city itself is beautiful with a lot of history, some outlying suburbs

are still what you would call impoverished. Take Wilkinsburg, for example, where Andrea, her sister, and her mother all lived, and where the median household income was around $26,000 according to the 2000 census. That's well below the poverty line for almost 20% of the population. In 2010, these statistics were even more dire. A whopping 22% of households were below the poverty line. Here's a resident's point of view. I moved here on May 13th.

My brother's birthday, 1963. This was a community where you wanted to raise a child because down here all the merchants, it was real developed, everything was going. The police lived in Wilkinsburg. So we had to respect them as they respected us. You see Wilkinsburg birthed that? It went like that when I was a kid.

It was beautified down here. The elderly, the older generation of our parents started dying. And we as the offspring coming up up didn't carry that torch. We did, I did, I did because my kids are growing and gone. I'm 63. But the canundin then kids start having kids and I started to change. Then people start moving away. And Wilkinsburg started falling towards you see today.

It was now 2007 and conditions in Wilkinsburg hadn't improved much. Andrea was born during the death of steel mills in Pittsburgh, and the decline continued. Andrea's mom was a nurse's aide at a local hospital, a relatively low-paying job, and her father was uninvolved in Andrea's life from the start. As adults, Andrea and one of her sisters lived in an apartment building across the hall from each other, and their mother lived within walking distance. Still, Andrea and her family were happy and spent a lot of time together. Andrea held several low skilled jobs and pretty much lived the Pittsburgh or the Berg life. Steelers games, pirates games, family barbecues, and just visiting

each other during sunny Berg days, which don't occur all that often, by the way. Through the years, Andrea had a few chances at children when she became pregnant, but sadly she miscarried. She knew time was running out, and the window of opportunity was quickly closing. She was in her late 30s when she finally met Ray Demis, maybe living together, marrying, and trying harder would produce the child that she desperately wanted. She was right. It happened again. Almost magically at this late stage, she was given another chance. One that many women will never get. Her mom recalled receiving the amazing news.

I know I was off work that day. I was sitting in the living room. Andrea just came in her and Ray. Plus I maybe had some friends in the house too. I think some friends or family. We was just sitting there. So Andrea, she gets this phone call. The phone call Andrea told the doctor, well, you tell this to my mom. So the doctor told me, I told everybody be quiet because I wanted to hear what the doctor

had to say So the doctor told me to tell Andrea do not take them pills that she gave her that she had just took a urine test And she was pregnant. That's when everybody started her hollering the excitement in the room was palpable as Andrea her mom and her sisters began excitedly discussing the due date As Andrea, her mom and her sisters began excitedly discussing the due date, which would be June of 2008. And they would hold a fantastic baby shower with all the new mom trappings and decorations. Andrea revealed the sonogram to all of her family after the next doctor's appointment, and her mother proudly hung the sonogram on the refrigerator. It was a boy, and they all decided they would name him

Ray Sean. Time passed quickly for Andrea, who grew bigger and bigger by the week. Then the month, and then at the end of spring 2008, it was time for baby Ray Sean to meet the family. Her mom recalled the day Andrea was to give birth. I'll never forget it. The daughters wanted to be with Andrea while Andrea had to be induced. So when I called, the phone rang. The doctor's office called and said Andrea for her not to come because the baby wasn't, the baby's something wasn't right.

The thing that wasn't right was Andrea's blood sugar levels. And Andrea's mother was the contact person in case Andrea couldn't be reached. When the office called to delay the induction, Andrea was already on the phone. So her mother received the message and relayed it not only to her sisters, but to Andrea herself. Coincidentally, Andrea's sister, like her mother, also worked in the medical field as a skilled assistant for a pediatrician. She remembered her own attempts at getting the day off to be there for her sister's induced labor, which was to occur on July 11th.

When this was delayed, she resumed her normal work schedule. But on the evening of July 15th, she visited Andrea in her apartment after Andrea had called and announced that she was having contractions. Soon her mother joined her, Andrea, and a family friend. And they all timed the contractions until Andrea finally asked her mother to leave because she didn't want anyone smoking around her. And she was also tired, so she asked everyone else to depart as well. Even though Andrea's mother and sister were concerned about Andrea going into labor, she assured them that she was fine and would call if she needed anything. The next morning, her mom got the call.

The baby had arrived. He was a beautiful, well-developed boy. His umbilical cord was already tied off, compliments of Andrea's sister Brooke, who was now dawned with blood stains. Because the baby was born in the apartment, and Andrea's nightgown was covered with blood from the waist down, her sister called 911. The baby and Andrea were both placed on a stretcher and whisked away to the hospital. But when they arrived, Andrea refused to be examined. Her blatant refusal quickly aroused suspicion.

Why would she refuse? Where was the placenta? Family had not found it at the apartment. Why didn't Andreas show any physical signs of fatigue or distress? And finally, why did DNA from Andreas and the baby's blood tests not match up? tests not match up. Whose baby was this? It's July 17, 2008. It's approximately 6.40 p.m., Detective Grande of the Wilkinsburg Police Department, taking a tape recorded statement.

Both Andrea Dimas Curry at the Wilkinsburg Police Station. Did you go by Dimas or you go by 30? Dimas? OK. Andrea, it's July 17, 2008, and it's about 6.40 You go by D. Miss or you go by 30? D. Miss? Okay. Andrea, it's July 17th, 2008, and it's about 6.40 p.m. Starting from the hospital with the baby. Okay. Starting from the beginning.

When I had Miss Carriage, you see that? But out of it, you know, Tina, all like that. Tina used to walk down the street and Wilkins burned. I used to always go home and I see Tina all the time. Bandojo and I was at a standing. After you had your miscarriage. You said there had a conversation. If you weren't able to hear the soft spoken Andrea, she was telling Wilkinsburg

police that the baby was Tina's. Tina was a young woman who Andrea frequently saw walking the streets with her bundle of joy. Tina had confided that she wasn't sure if she would be able to take care of the baby, and that was very interesting to Andrea, who had been waiting all her life to do just that. Care for a baby that is. In fact, it was an obsession for Andrea. Tina was lucky though. She had friendly maternal Andrea, not only to take the baby, but also to pamper Tina until

it was born. I could take the baby, but Tina wanted more than just somebody to take the baby. I gave Tina a thousand dollars. I take Tina to go get an outfit. Every time I see her, I bear her something. I do something so much for her. It wasn't just because of the baby. That's the kind of summer horror. I always do that for people.

Andrea went on to explain that the baby was born on July 16th. The transaction took place for the exchange of the baby, which was brought to Andrea's apartment, located just across the hall from her sister. This is all illegal, by the way, which is why Andrea was being interrogated. I went into the department, when I went into the department, and I knew that the baby needed help. I've only been, and I ain't even able to do so. My sister called 911, and she called 911. I said, what one more can I do?

I had lost my baby, so I'm gonna go ahead and say I was a baby's mom. And I went in and said, the baby's mom. And me, I was in a baby's mom from Florida, and so I said, I was an incubator. I said, dear, I named the baby. Fortunately, Andrea was just astute enough to realize the baby should be examined, or maybe her sister realized. She had a baby right in the town, you said?

Yeah, the baby was right through the town. The baby I gave her a hug, when I gave her a hug, I gave her a kiss to the stairs. From there, now the one was called a... Okay, so your sister called 911? What's your sister's name? Well, we all... O-O-K. Mr. Caldino, what's your sister's name? Well, we all, oh okay. Broke you with anything else?

No. Didn't help you with anything else about the baby? Clean the baby up or anything? No. No. What did you do to the baby other than keeping it a little bit? A lot. Did you clean the baby off at all?

No, I didn't clean the baby off. The baby was very, when the baby looked to the house. During the several days that Andrea was held for questioning, she was providing as much information as she could about this Tina character. She didn't seem worried because in her mind, what was the harm? This was a win-win situation for both her and Tina. She was helping this poor girl from the kindness of her heart, and she was receiving a priceless gift.

But meanwhile, something was rotten in the state of PA. What police say they found behind the flies visible from the sidewalk outside 493 Illustrate is a brutal violent murder scene. For two days, neighbors' noses were assaulted by the rancid and festering odors that were emanating from the L.A.S.D. apartment. But as one neighbor nonchalantly stated, Andrea Curry, deemess of Wilkinsburg, Pennsylvania, had an extreme desire to have a baby. And now at the age of 38 was facing the ticking clock that was quickly stealing her chances. Finally married and pregnant at last, she sadly miscarried in June of 2008.

But she didn't tell her family, saying that she didn't want to disappoint her mother. So she showed up at the hospital with a baby anyway. Staff quickly learned that this baby was not Andreas, and police soon discovered that it belonged to a woman wandering the streets of Wilkinsburg. According to Andrea, she had helped the young woman by paying her money, providing clothing, and bypassing an adoption agency win-win and what was this foul odor neighboring tenants complained about Perhaps the familiar scent of the ghetto. Oh, and remember Andrea's husband Ray?

She married him with the hopes of spawning children. Well, Ray was now in prison for raping them. At the same time that Andrea had miscarried and was trying to purchase a replacement baby, Mr. Demis was being charged with two counts each of raping an ex-girlfriend's child, and, deviant sexual intercourse with a child, statutory sexual assault, and indecent assault of a person younger than 13. I'm not sure about you, but those all sound like the same charge with different titles. In any case, it's a good thing he was in jail now because he would have made an awful dad. I mean, are these really the traits you're looking for in your baby daddy? I don't

know. It was during a beautiful visit to her husband Ray, the substanding citizen, that Andrea met Kia Johnson at the Allegheny County Jail on July of 2008. Only 18, Kia still had a bright future ahead. A godly person. She was kind, selfless, and bright. She volunteered as a candy stripper in a nearby hospital and fed the homeless. She worked part-time at McDonald's, but planned to enlist in the Air Force. Kia just happened to be visiting her boyfriend in jail, at the same time Andrea was there. And Kia would also become the target of Andrea's interest, because she was very pregnant. Much like her altruistic efforts

towards Tina, Andrea planned to offer friendship, clothing for the baby, and much more. Little did Kia know Andrea had a history of obsession and lies. We sought the opinion and review of Dr. Barbara Ziv, a renowned forensic psychiatrist who was studied in Andrea Curie-Demis in depth. She's outside of the box. She doesn't fit into any diagnostic category. Her actions don't make any sense. You can't go back and look at her history, and even with the advantage that I had of having every medical record and having her whole life really well documented, from when she was incarcerated the first time in the 90s.

Yep, baby obsessed. Autoristic Andrea was in jail in the 90s. You heard that right. In May of 1990, she stabbed a woman in a plot to steal her baby. When this was unsuccessful, she kidnapped an infant recovering from illness in the hospital just one day later. The baby was safely returned, but Andrea spent eight years in state prison. Andrea's penchant for helping people from the kindness of her heart.

That's a bizarre tale in it of itself. And her obsession with babies rested on her own reconstructed version of her life. And how do you explain the fact that she continues to lie even though her lies are so transparent? There's no explanation. How do you explain the fact that so much of what she does lacks reason. It's impossible to explain. Why does she steal and give stuff away? But it's not like she steals and gives stuff away and says they're stolen. You know, it's not a Robinhood kind of thing.

It's just a random kind of thing. You know, how do you explain all of her her obsessiveness about pregnancy and children. It's, you know, you can't point to anything in her background that would explain it. Let's dig a little deeper into Andrea's past. From the age of 12, she'd been claiming she had been raped and had multiple pregnancies and miscarriages. Almost all of these were lies.

Her mother did recall one time that this may have been true. Andrea was only 15 years old when her pregnancy was discovered by her mother. She called Andrea who lived upstairs at the time and remembers that Andrea jumped from the window. The next thing she knew, she was being called to the hospital because Andrea had miscarried. This may have been true, but none of the other stories were verified in any way.

There was no baby to husband Raidemus. There was no miscarriage in June of 2008. Instead, what there were were Phantom baby cries, false pregnancies, and miscarriages. And of course, attempts to steal other women's babies. It's incomprehensible that she would be putting on this elaborate fantasy of being pregnant in this public setting and talking about her her sonogram and talking about a big fancy wedding that she had which she didn't have and all of this other stuff. And in terms of going and meeting this woman in the jail, that was happenstance. And I don't know what clicked in her when she met that woman.

But I do know that she picked somebody close to the time that she would have been due and who was near term as she would have been. And she really been pregnant. As far as the pregnancy belly, either she was eating a whole lot more than usual, a lot of chick nugs maybe, or her mind had tricked her body into thinking she was actually pregnant, a phenomenon with a myriad of names, pseudosaisis, delusional pregnancy, phantom pregnancy, and pseudogestation among many. Yes, this is an actual real medical phenomenon.

It's kind of nuts, but the mind has a whole lot of say in what the body is doing. Another possibility is that she wore the kind of fake pregnancy belly that you can buy at say a costume shop. In any case, family and friends all said Andrea looked pregnant, but she was reluctant to let others touch her swollen abdomen. What about the phone call from the doctor's office? The one confirming Andrea was pregnant. The reality is Andrea's pregnancy test was initially positive, but was advised by a doctor that a follow-up blood test should be done. It was and the doctor maintained that she was not in fact pregnant at all. How does this happen? Here's Dr. Rebecca Brightman.

This is most likely due to natural loss during the first few weeks of pregnancy, known as early pregnancy loss. Sadly, this can be quite common with pregnancy loss occurring in approximately one in four pregnancies. It can be very upsetting to get a negative result after first testing positive and can lead some people to doubt the accuracy of the pregnancy result they initially received. This is where the term false positive usually comes from. However, you can be reassured that true false positive results are extremely rare. If you get a positive result at any point, then it is almost certain that you were pregnant when you took the test.

But let's return to the happenstance meeting between beautiful bright Kia and her blossoming pregnancy that was real. Andrea was on the prowl after a fraudulent eight months of convincing everyone in her circle that she was going to deliver her own bundle of joy very soon. What a lucky surprise that she would meet Kia. And within just a couple of weeks, she had gained Kia's friendship. So much so that she offered Kia a ride back to her Wilkinsburg apartment, the one on Ellis Street, where she would hand over some clothing and gifts for the new baby.

And what about the Wilkinsburg Nomad named Tina, whose baby she'd purchased? Well, if you haven't guessed it by now, there was no Tina. It was a lie, a figment of Andrea's imagination. The baby was...Kias. According to the criminal complaint, filed against 38-year-old Andrea Curry-Demis, 18-year-old Kia Johnson was bound with duct tape, plastic placed over her head, wrapped in a comforter, then a garbage bag, and shoved into a space beneath the headboard and carried Demis' master bedroom. The medical examiner says Johnson's stomach was cut open and her baby stolen, but so far they have not said whether she was dead before her son was taken or watched in horror. Kea was given a drug called Neurontin, otherwise known as Gabbapentin, which is typically

prescribed for neuropathy and neuralgia, conditions that cause numbness and tingling most often in the extremities. It's also prescribed for migraine headaches and sometimes for other types of pain. What it is not prescribed for is to produce anesthesia, a state of semi-consciousness used for surgery. Dr. Wecht of Pittsburgh weighed in with his opinion on Kia's pain level as a baby was being torn from her womb. Now, if she were alive and conscious, The pain would have been fantastic, as well as, of course, the realization that someone was doing this to her and taking her baby.

So you would have been talking about three, four people holding her down. But of course, there weren't three or four people holding her down. There was only one crazed and obsessed Andrearea, kindly allowing Keita bypassed the hospital bills she would incur with normal delivery. Persistent Andrea, who plotted out this grand theft baby because she so desperately craved her own family and could think of nothing else but babies.

Although Andrea had spent time in prison already and earned diagnoses of psychosis and delusional disorder among other things, Dr. Ziv elaborated that her crime was nevertheless shocking and unpredicted by her doctors. And this was a case she would never forget. Andrick, hurry, Deamus. I mean, there's a reason that you're doing a podcast on her. And there's a reason that I became involved with her.

This is a very unusual crime. I remember this case vividly. It pops into my head, I think about it. I thought about this for a decade, and I can't wrap my head around it. What's especially baffling is that Andrea's IQ was quite low, measuring in the borderline range, meaning her IQ falls below 98% of the population at her age. So how could she have pulled this off? It just doesn't make sense.

You know, you can look at her IQ and say, does she have the IQ? It doesn't matter what her IQ is, because clearly she had an IQ that was capable of doing this, because she did it. Part of the reason Andrea's case is so unusual points back to her habitual lying. She is also a completely unreliable historian. So there are lots of reasons

people can be unreliable historians. They can be unreliable historians because they're psychotic and they don't know the difference between truth and fantasy. For lack of another, you know, to use a colloquial word, they don't know what the truth is. People can be poor historians because they've got cognitive impairments. People can be poor historians because they're lying to get out of something. People can be poor historians because they have pseudologia fantastica, which is a fancy name for saying pathological liar. Andrea Curry deemed this lied about everything and really for no purpose. Her

history is so inconsistent and I documented in the report that I wrote for her trial about the fact that really you can't believe anything that comes out of her mouth. She gives completely unreliable histories about everything, about who raised her, about things that are incidental and unimportant to, you know, her life. So she does not fit easily into any psychiatric category. She's got a constellation of symptoms that don't fit any one diagnosis. She's got a low IQ. She's a pathological liar. She's a pathological, you know, thief. Without the usual secondary gain of a thief, she's got obsessions and delusions about children.

If you've ever gone to a therapist session for any reason, you understand the importance of telling the truth. It's tough to talk about issues, emotionally draining at times, in fact. Andrea Currie-Demis seemed to lack that capability altogether, making it difficult for any of her medical team to determine not only her personal history,

but also exactly how disturbed and delusional she actually was. Sometimes she said that her father was married to her mother until she was a teen, right? So that, right, everything from, I never knew him to, I live with him until I was a teen. Sometimes she said she was raised by her mother. Sometimes she said, but she was raised by her mother, sometimes she said that she was raised by her grandmother. Sometimes she said that she had no family psychiatric history, sometimes she said that her mother was schizophrenic. Sometimes she said that she had no psychiatric

history before she was arrested in 1990. Another time she said that she was raped when she was 12 and had psychiatric symptoms then. And by the way, that's the only time she ever said she was raped in all of her many, many, many evaluations. She only reported that she was raped on months. Remember how Andreas mom said she got a call from one of Andreas friends saying 15-year-old Andrea was pregnant and Andrea jumped out the window?

Based on Dr. Ziv's extensive review of Andreas files, it is questionable whether Andrea's own mother knows the truth. Her pregnancies were without any basis in reality. She said that she had between one and many pregnancies. She had reported over the course of years, variously, that she had still bursts, that she had a child that lived for a day, that she had miscarriages into a toilet, that she had miscarriages in a hospital, that she had a child who died from cids, that she had living children, that she had a tubal pregnancy,

that she had an abortion, that she gave birth in 2003, and the baby died after 10 days. None of that's documented in any medical record, so no one knows if she's ever been pregnant. After showing up at the hospital with Kia's baby, Andrea was arrested. With officers believing she may have purchased him and not suspecting a murder until several days later. But she was not done telling lies. Described as disturbing by Allegheny County Police, Andrea Curry-Demissat emotionless inside the courtroom, as Detective Tom DeFelice told the judge how she confessed that Kia Johnson was drugged before her baby was cut from her womb inside

Curry Demis' Wilkinsburg apartment. Detective DeFelice testified that Curry Demis took no blame, claiming that this male friend involved in a heated argument outside the courtroom was the one who removed the baby. But the detective testified Curry Demiedemus quickly began making excuses for potential evidence, saying that her DNA could be on Serran rap found around Johnson's face because she handed the rap to her friend, and that her fingerprints

could be found on the duct tape used because she was asked to cut strips of that tape. The man Curiedemus claimed cut the baby from Kia Johnson denies any involvement. She gave a pretty elaborate story. She said that this guy came to her apartment with a plastic bag of kit pills and that the guy gave the pregnant girl two or three pills and that they left. And the pregnant girl came back, slept on her couch the following morning. Two

people came separately to her apartment with rubber gloves and the guy, a man, gave the pregnant woman more pills to induce labor and then they said that Miss Curry Deam has said that the two people, a man and a woman sat in the living room and watched television. She said that the man left the bathroom, obtained a towel with washcloth, alcohol, duct tape, and saran wrap. And then they went into the bathroom and exited with a baby. And he said the baby and the man recovered him blood. And she went to her sister's apartment, woke up her sister, who wrapped the baby in a blanket,

tied a string around the umbilical cord attempted to clean the baby's mouth and nose, and called 911. So that's what she told at least. Pathological liar, kleptomaniac, delusional, psychotic, intellectually dim, and most importantly, obsessive. These all describe Andrea Curry-Demis. But what was her state of mind when she played the role of amateur surgeon, cutting short any hope Kia would ever have of the family she expected. Was this evil act premeditated?

Or was it the uncontrolled compulsion of a lunatic? She lived like a normal life like you and I. Got up in the morning, ate, bought things, went to work, you know, just like we do. If that's a person insane, then we all insane. That was the victim's uncle speaking about his niece's killer. So let's return the focus to pregnant victim Kia, the one who's dead and whose last moments were as a witness of her own life being viciously ripped away, twice over. Her life and the life of her baby. Kia was partly eviscerated. Her abdomen was cut open with a common kitchen knife. The uterus had also been sliced open. Oh, and remember the missing placenta? It was found on the scene by detectives. It had been a normal day for Kia Johnson, who had only recently moved from her father's residence to her own apartment.

Her father remembered that as a Christian, she had reaffirmed her spirituality in the church, that as a Christian, she had reaffirmed her spirituality in the church a mere week before her death. The weather was a typical cloudy day in Pittsburgh on July 15, 2008, the last day of Kia's life. Camera footage caught Kia at the jail where she visited the father of her unborn child. She was wearing a white hoodie and red striped top along with jeans. This was the final day she would meet up with her angel of death,

Andrea Curry Demis. She would have been alive when the baby was torn from her, so as to preserve the baby's oxygen, Kia's life was drained from her as she bled out. But she was still alive when her body was being wrapped in bedding and surrounded in plastic bags and saran wrap. After Andrea had what she wanted, she wrapped Kia's head in a mask that would suffocate her. Then she stuffed her cocoon-like corpse behind the headboard of the bed. In the apartment detectives found three blood-covered knives, a roll of plastic kitchen wrap, and a roll

of duct tape, also covered in blood. silos embedding marked where Kia had been accosted. Sword and Scale listeners are tuned into the nuances of the insanity defense, and may also be familiar with how difficult it really is to be labeled insane. This case was no different. In 2010, Andreas Trial took place without a jury at her request. Defense attorney Christopher Patarini set out to convince the Allegheny County judge that Andrea was insane and therefore not guilty. He claimed that she was preoccupied with delusions of being pregnant and had a break with reality.

He also argued that getting a baby was consistent with her severe psychosis. On the first day of her murder trial, Andrea Curi-Demis wore a brand new blue suit, but her wide-eyed, bew wildered expression has yet to change. The prosecutor says it's all an act. But in his opening statements today, her defense attorney told the judge, at the time of he-A-Johnson's killing, her unborn son, crudely excised from her womb, Curry-Demis was in a severe psychosis off her medication. The prosecutor, Mark Tranquilli, had very different ideas about Andrea's mental health. The entry of Curried Demis was like a spider.

She was like a spider because she set out building a web of sort of death, strand by deceitful strand. He had Johnson like a butterfly, caught in the web, never saw it coming. The psychiatrist for the prosecution naturally felt the same way. Although she had a history of mental disease, she knew what she was doing and she knew it was wrong. Even Dr. Ziv, the expert forensic psychiatrist you heard earlier, was conflicted about Andrea's history of diagnoses as it applied to this particular murder. But interestingly, you know, in all of these reports and all of these

many, I mean, I can't tell you how many psychiatric and psychological evaluations she had. I don't know that anybody ever thought that she was a sociopath or anti-social. I said that you had to consider it. But up until she did this, obviously after she did it, people gave even then after she did it, people gave her diagnoses of anti-social traits, some people did. But before that, nobody gave her a diagnosis, and it was not even a consideration. Why is a diagnosis of antisocial personality disorder important in this case? Well because it ties in closely with the insanity theory. Those with antisocial personalities understand rules or expectations, but blatantly disregard them.

They don't tend to learn from their actions and often lie and manipulate others. These people are typically cold and callous towards others, making them ideal candidates for committing crimes and murder for that matter. However, Dr. Ziv went on to say that she's unsure whether Andrea met the necessary criteria for this disorder, and there was nothing in her history to indicate she would act out violently. It's weird how some particular labels in so-called science are on a spectrum, yet others require specific criteria for a binary diagnosis. The problem with this theory in the case of Andrea Currie-Demos is that she did actually previously act out.

Remember the 1990s stabbing and baby abduction? Besides, would a mere diagnosis of anti-social personality have stopped Andrea from killing Kia Johnson? I don't think so. Because at the core of an antisocial personality disorder is a lack of empathy, which has to be missing from somebody who can kill a woman and cut a fetus from her womb. There is no way around that unless you are psychotic. So it is the definition of an antisocial act, which doesn't necessarily mean that it is driven from antisocial personality or sociopathic personality, which I don't think it was. She doesn't meet criteria and she certainly didn't evidence it before she did this. Okay, so you're probably thinking you've heard it all before. Crazy, not crazy, psychosis, or anti-social personality.

Regardless of the formal diagnosis Andrea had, two traits clearly played into this tragic outcome. Her constant lies and her undying obsession over babies. Now a judge is to decide whether the murder was premeditated or of Andrea Curry-Demis seemed here is insane. You've heard the definition of insanity. I believe it was from Albert Einstein, who called it doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result.

Did this apply to Andrea? The defense attorney actually admitted to the judge during closing arguments that yes, the evidence shows his client, Andrew Curry-Demis, was involved in some way in this case, but he says she should not be held responsible. The DA, on the other hand, says not only was she responsible, she was manipulative and deceitful the whole way through. Kia's mother, the grandmother of the baby who survived this ordeal, did not refrain from giving her thoughts. I want them to let me do what she did to my daughter. Do you think she's mentally ill? No, there's nothing wrong with her. What she did to my daughter, she taped her eyes,

she taped her mouth, she taped her arms, her feet, I can't, I just couldn't take it. The family of Kia Johnson were so bereaved by the evidence presented in court that they had to leave the room when it was discussed. The defense would try to prove that Andrea Curry-Demis was insane at the time of the murder, that she had succumbed to a psychotic break and didn't know what she was doing, or what was right, and what was wrong. The prosecution, however, was aiming for first or second degree murder, but mentally ill.

They argued that Andrean knew exactly what she was doing is evidenced in her plotting, planning, and lying. They added that Kia's murder was premeditated. You might recall that Andreah spent time in jail in the 90s for stabbing a woman and kidnapping another woman's baby. The mother of that baby testified against Andreah. So this time, she would leave no bodies,

except for the tiny body of a baby she wanted to call her own. In January of 2010, the non-Jury trial took place. Andrea was now 40 years old. Kia would have soon celebrated her 21st birthday along with her precious baby boy, Kean, named after her. But she was never given that opportunity. Guilty of second-degree murder. Tonight, a judge has found Andrea Curry-Demis guilty of cutting out a newborn from the womb of her victim, Kea Johnson. Judge Jeffrey Manning told Andrea Curry-Demis that she had wildly delusional thinking

when she sliced a baby from a teenager's womb. But then he said to her, quote, be crazy, doesn't mean you're not criminally responsible. And that's when he convicted her of second degree murder, but mentally ill. Andrea Curry, Demis sat emotionless as she had throughout her trial. This time, staring at the judge

who told her that her planning and pathetic attempts to cover up her crime proved she knew right from wrong, but that he considered her intent deranged. Andrea Curry, Demis sat emotionless as she had throughout her trial. This time, staring at the judge who told her that her planning and pathetic attempts to cover up her crime proved she knew right from wrong, but that he considered her intent deranged. Before her sentencing, she was examined by psychiatrists from Allegheny County, Jail,

and diagnosed with severe depression, personality disorders, and auditory hallucinations. At the time, she told her doctors that she kept thinking about all her miscarriages and kept hearing babies cry. You know, the curious thing about her, though, is that she continues with these fantastical lies or delusions, even when she's already been caught. You know, after her 1990 arrest, she continued to say that she had this baby and it had been taken away from her and talked about her lost child.

And she continued to talk about that even when she was incarcerated, you know, saying that she was interested in finding a man to marry who had lost a child as she had. We had one final question for the defense psychiatrist. Was she happy with the verdict? After all, Andrea would be spending her life in prison. Yes. I think the outcome was appropriate. I think that she, I don't know if she got life without parole, but I doubt she'll

ever be paroled. And I think that all of her records show that she does do better when she's on medication, psychiatric medication, and she'll get that while she's incarcerated. So I was never there to suggest that she would be found out guilty. I was never there to suggest that she wasn't culpable for her actions. I was there to say that she's got a very long psychiatric history and that that contributed her delusions about pregnancy and about children and about her life contributed to her actions. I mean, I don't think it's a, it's certainly not an excuse, and it's only in her case a partial explanation.

But I think that the outcome was entirely appropriate. If they had been arguing that she was not guilty by reason of insanity I wouldn't have taken the case or I would have taken the case But I would have said I can't I can't take that position I Thought that her being found guilty but mentally ill was the appropriate verdict Just before Andrea sentencing she turned around and acknowledged the family, saying, I'm sorry.

The judge harshly responded, this is not a crime where an apology will ever suffice," he said. And Kia's mom had a few words to say later. No, I think she said that out of fear, what she knew was she was getting today. And there's no getting around it. And like I still say, if she didn't take the baby to the hospital, I wouldn't ever find my daughter. But by her taking the baby to the hospital,

I was able to find my daughter. So that was a good thing there. But I can't find it in my heart right now too, forgive her. Baby Kean was initially placed in foster care, given that his mother was now deceased, and his father was in jail for burglary and other charges. A lot of great dads in this story. True role models, really.

Although his father wants custody of baby Kean someday, his choices are limited of course while he's incarcerated. Meanwhile, Kea's family have been caring for him and are grateful that even though Kia's life was stolen from her, the baby made it to the hospital after this horrific entry into the world. Because Andrea Curri-Demis did seem to have some love and compassion for one thing, other people's babies. Kia's mother aptly shared her feelings about Andrea.

I don't even see out anybody that she knew, could have did the things that she did to her. She's not human, she's a monster, she's safe, see. Andrea Curry, Demise's dreams, never came to fruition. Was she ever pregnant and miscarried? Maybe? Was she ever raped? Perhaps?

Did she know right from wrong at the time she killed Kia? Probably. But we'll never really know for sure. But this is a fact. Her obsessive thoughts were the driving force behind her violent and unforgivable actions. She may have been crazy, and she definitely had a low IQ, but those factors no more drove her to kill

than they steered her away from murder. She simply wanted something. She couldn't have it, but she wanted it anyway. So much so that she did anything she could to get it. You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find you get what you need. Wise words from a 1960s rock band, as for Andrea Curry-Demis, however, this wasn't enough. She stole a baby and killed the baby's mother. And now, Andrea will get what she deserves. Well, that's it guys. That's 200 episodes.

It's been... Wow, it's been. Who knows how many more there will be. We'll take it day by day. Sometimes it's a little challenging deal with the constant critics out there. But regardless, to all of you who have supported over the years, stay safe. 1 tbh 1 tbh 1 tbh 1 tbh 1 tbh

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