Sword and Scale - Episode 202

Episode Date: November 15, 2021

In late October of 2017, two deer hunters discovered a naked and rotting human corpse in the Bruneau Desert near Grand View, Idaho. An autopsy later confirmed that the human remains were that of an 18 to 20-year-old male and that he had been shot to death. The Idaho State Police struggled to identify the body as there were no missing person cases in the Grand View area that matched the victim. What the police didn't know is that the story of this murder victim actually began three months prior to his discovery and over 500 miles away in an entirely different state.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Sword and Scale contains adult themes and violence and is not intended for all audiences Listener discretion is advised Like he wanted a little community of Floquilers, I should have gone out. I should have told somebody I should have tried to stop it You're trying to stop it. Hello, and welcome to Season 8 episode 202 of Sword and Scale, a show that reveals that the worst monsters are real. Okay, here's the deal. We've gone almost a whole year now. With no breaks at all.

Through sickness and nonsense, we've brought you a show once a week if you're a plus member and once every two weeks if you're not. So, season 8 is winding down here. In fact, the next episode will be the last of this season. And that'll drop on November 21st for plus members and November 28th for regular non-plus members. Listen, I know you're disappointed, but we all have families too. All of us at work here, we want to spend a little time with them, and we want to refresh and get ready for season 9, which will come a lot earlier than we had previously planned. So take a little break from True Crime. In the month of December, enjoy a little holiday cheer instead.

Put aside the murder and mayhem for a tall glass of eggnog. Or subscribe to Plus because we will still be putting out bonus content throughout the month. All sorts of goodies, all kinds of things like long form unedited interviews. We might even throw in an interrogation or two. Oh, and don't forget, Sword and Scale Plus makes a wonderful stocking stuffer. You can find our gift subscriptions available at swordandscale.com and click gift subscription on the top of the homepage to gift the gift of plus. Alright, let's get on with it. There are few situations in life that are more difficult to cope with than losing a loved one, especially when that loved one has been brutally murdered.

The level of grief that can consume a murder victim's family isn't something that can be described in words. It's one of those things that can't be fully understood unless you experience it. In some cases, the family of a murder victim can find a small degree of closure when the killer is caught and punished for their crime. And when this happens, the family usually wants to know one very important thing. Why? Why did the killer murder someone that you loved? Unfortunately, a convicted murderer is not legally obligated to answer this question, or

any question for that matter. And when the question of why is left unanswered, the family of the victim can be left in a state of prolonged grief and force to develop their own theories as to why the murderer did, what they did. For an example of a murder case where the question of why has been left unanswered, let's take a trip to the southern western corner of Idaho. It is here that we can find the Humbrum city of Grandview. To give you a sense of this so-called city, Grandview has a population of less than 500

people and it has a gas station. That's it. One gas station, which many area residents jokingly refer to as the gas station. Much less than a city, Grandview is more like the very definition of an American po-dunk town. more like the very definition of an American podunk town, a dull and barren place that doesn't offer much for people to do, besides drink. But another way that many Grandview residents pass the time, which isn't often exclusive to drinking, is by going hunting in the nearby desert.

A short drive south of Grandview is the Idaho Bruno Desert, and this desert consists of several small lakes and very tall sand dunes. At a glance, it may appear desolate, but the Bruno Desert is rich with wildlife, and it offers hunters big-game animals like deer, elk, and antelope. In late October of 2017, there were two hunters in the Bruno Desert that came across something that they never would have expected. You guys are just out of nothing, deer. We were out hunting deer.

We'd seen deer that morning. And I was driving, and my boyfriend was in the passenger seat, and we always go on slow, because we was driving and my boyfriend was in the passenger seat and we I was going slow because we're you know Driving around and it's like a little hill and come around a corner and He's like stop. Okay, and he thought he saw a deer carcass. He's like, yeah, I want to get on look and So he got out and then he haulers that means like come here Like okay, so I get out there and he's like is that real? Or is that and is that what I think it is

Lying in a dried up creek bed staring back at the two horror struck deer hunters was a naked and rotting human corpse Given that it was late October and Halloween was right around the corner, the hunters thought and hoped that this was some kind of prank and decided to take a closer look. So I stepped down into there and I noticed the feet and noticed the hands and I like that is real.

Can you describe what you saw? Yes, the full body of a person. Yes, it was decomposed as of you could see the bones. There was some flesh on it. I would say that an animal had been to it because some of the ribcage was moved around. After confirming that the decomposed corpse was real, the hunter is called 911. Police arrived a short while later, and one of the first things they noticed were several

bullet casings around the body. It was obvious from the start of their investigation that they were dealing with a homicide. After a nautopsy, authorities also confirmed that the body was that of a young male about 18 to 20 years old and had died about three months before the discovery of his body. He had been shot several times, once in the abdomen and three times in the head, and whoever shot him likely stripped the body naked to prevent authorities from making an identification. It worked. There were no active missing persons cases in the Grandview area that matched an 18-20-year-old

male. Without a matching DNA sample, there was no way for police to identify the body. Eventually, the local media picked up on the story, and when news of this unidentified murder victim hit the nearby town of Bruno and the city of Grandview, everyone was talking about it. Rumors began to swirl, and before long, the police were contacted by someone that knew someone that knew someone that might know who was responsible for the murder. My brother's good friends with this guy. We've all lived in Bruno. I know really well.

And then in the bar, I'm in the bar in my mom's restaurant and I'm going to go to work because the bar's just packed. Well, I see him in there and he has shit-based drunk and he yells across the bar. He's like, hey, he's all. And he's like, you owe me for some pot. Like, I mean, just screams across the whole bar. And everybody else that was working there, you know, was like, Nick, what are you doing? Shout out, you know, stop talking. And Nick's like, I don't care. I don't care. So I just left. And I went told my mom, because I don't want some bar, you know, I was like, this is what just happened. She said, give me more. He's drunk. After walking into work, a young bartender was harassed by a drunken patron.

27-year-old Nick Vandenberg shouted at her and accused the bartender of selling him bad weed. Understandably upset about being very publicly yelled at in her own workplace about an activity that was illegal, the bartender told her older brother Paul what had happened, and Paul promised to confront Nick. But then, Paul decided against that after hearing a scary story that Nick may have recently killed someone. When the police heard this story, they knew that they needed to speak with Paul, so they

asked the bartender to call him. Hello? What are you doing? Bring some coffee back to the lake. Coffee? What's with the lake? Something to do. Why need you to do something for me? What?

I got these guys and they're going to come talk to you. The whole thing with Nick. Did they keep your fucking mouth shut and stay out of it? Who's coming over here to talk to me? Detective's Paul. Hey, go, keep your fucking mouth shut and stay out of it. Paul, listen. Needless to say, Paul wasn't eager to chat with police, but eventually he was convinced

and brought in for questioning. He agreed to tell police what he knew about Nick Vandenberg. I personally think Nick's great kind of op of it. I think his tours did. Most of the time, I mean, he was always wanted to get physical, like if there's a confrontation, he was the guy that was punched in somebody in the nose. How long did he do, I've taken, he was deployed overseas. Yes, you know, where did you, where did you go?

And did you go to Iraq or have you had a stand? One of the two, but I knew he was, he was on the ground. And he was there. He was doing it. He was sitting at the base. Army. He was a Marine. Yep.

I used to hang out with him all the time. He's the best shooter I've ever seen. We could hit a target at a thousand yards in size of your, we'd put a steel plate up about that big at a thousand yards he could hit it every time. You could make a good Marine. Yeah. And he loved it. Former Marine Nick Vandenberg was a resident of Bruno Idaho.

He had reportedly seen combat while serving in the military and his impressive skills as a marksman were a valuable asset during his time overseas. But now police were hearing that Nick may have brought those skills home and used them to murder someone. And they believe that Paul used something about it. Yeah, as you know, we found some remains of a male up there in the Hill, South of Bruneau. Okay. And I'll just be up front with you. I've been told that you were a person that was involved, was present during the killing of this man, confided the story to you. Well nobody that was present there told me the story. I don't know what the whole deal was I wasn't there but I guess Nick went

to Hazel's workplace which is black sands. Hazel owed him some money it was like 15 bucks or something and he was all drunk and just being a dick. So my sister called me crying and I was gonna go over there and put them, you know, and then my friend Donnie Stop me and he said don't go over there I was like, all right. Well, what's the problem then? Why don't I need to go over there? And he's like well somebody told me that Nick picked up some guy and They ended up, you know hanging out that night and went out to go shoot bunny rabbits at night and

ended up shooting the guy After speaking with Paul, police followed up on what they had learned and questioned the man that warned Paul about Nick That man was Donnie Daniels To his friends Donnie Daniels was something of a confidant, a friendly older man that was easy to talk to. And when Donny's ex-wife found out that police wanted to speak with him, she immediately assumed that Donny had been up to no good. And then when I got to call him today, I called her up.

I said, I gotta go to town, I'm going to town, I'm going to talk to some people. So I'll fucking near in trouble aren't you? You in trouble? I said no, I ain't in trouble. I didn't do shit wrong, but she's always looking out for me and with my kids' mom, you know what I mean? She's your ex-wife. Deanna, her name's Deanna.

She works at Albert's in here in town. She lives in Bruno, but we're separated because I fucked her sister. I don't do it. If you ever think about it, don't do it. You say, will not work out here. It's the wrong last thing. Welcome to Small Town, Idaho, where apparently it's not common knowledge that you shouldn't

sleep with your wife's sister. Anyway, after meeting with Donnie, the police wanted to know what Donnie knew and where he had gotten his information. Why would he think Nick Vanenberg killed someone? The person that told me swore me to see if he said, you know what I mean? Me, no, I'm telling me that he might come after me. I said, fuck you. I don't know.

Don't tell me, tell me whatever. Just fucking guys don't really want to know that. I didn't want to. So the person you heard that you heard it from was there. I don't know if he was scared that he knew. He was scared that he knew that it happened. Because I guess Nick was still told. I guess he told it.

So why would he? Who was it? So don't. So my friend's his name's Keith Rayby. The guy that told me. Keith Rayby, okay. 34 year old Keith Rayby was Nick Vandenberg's former roommate and had reportedly confided in Donnie about a murder committed by Nick.

Naturally police wanted to talk to Keith and find out what he knew, but at the time, Keith had several warrants out for his arrest for a variety of petty offenses. He was actively avoiding law enforcement, and it wasn't someone that could be easily found for a quick chat. For the time being, all the cops had was Donnie's second-hand account of what Nick Van Den Berg had allegedly told Keith about this murder. What did Nick tell Keith? What did Keith tell you? What was the story of the Nick Toulette?

They were out there and they were some guy with him. And they got it up and they picked him up. Or he was a transenter and he was hitchhiking or what the fuck did he deal with. And they brought the guy back to the house and drank a couple beers and they were like, yeah, go shoot him. They even let the guy shoot the gun. That's what he said that they shot the gun. For Nick say he's gonna hit the

set, he let him shoot his gun. And when they're gun running out of bullets, he just fucking turned and shot him with his pistol, I guess. After speaking with Donnie, police committed to investigating Nick Vandenberg. But before bringing him in for questioning, they interviewed several people that knew Nick, But before bringing him in for questioning, they interviewed several people that knew Nick starting with one of his ex-girlfriends Who was also the mother of Nick's daughter You might be asking what you guys put up for That's been um, we just couldn't do it

Our personalities didn't match. I didn't like how Egotistic cool he was about things And his temper and waiting a lot of things. Right. And his temper annoyed me a lot. His temper was never toward me or her, but I didn't like who that he had again fights all the time. Right. Till he fought quite often. Oh, yes.

Like barfights or just anything, I mean. Mainly barfights from what I saw. According to Nick's ex, Nick was the kind of guy that always had to be right. And just like Paul told police earlier, Nick was prone to violence, especially after he'd had to be right. And just like Paul told police earlier, Nick was prone to violence, especially after he'd had a few drinks. Nick, we're talking about having to

see any combat or kill anyone in his military service. He's talked about it a little bit. And he'd say he did have to kill people that he had to kill people. Yeah, he has. Okay. He liked it because of the violence. I hear he's got a lot of guns.

Oh yeah, everywhere. What is it? It's a few. I know he has a few pistols. Okay. And he has quite a few rifles. Okay. And I know he has quite a few shotguns.

It's a little bit of a shame. I know like, hey, describe Nick to me. How would you describe it? Without using passwords. You can, hey hate whatever's accurate. I think it's a stupor bastard. It would be the best way to describe Nick. As far as the police could tell,

there wasn't a whole lot of people that thought very highly of Nick. Most people saw him as a violent ego maniac who would occasionally brag about killing people when he was an active duty Marine. But then, police question Nick's most recent ex-girlfriend, 22-year-old Montana Reed, who gave them a surprisingly different take on who Nick was. He is probably one of the nicest people. When somebody needs something, he's right there.

Keith didn't have a place to go. So Nick offered him home. I didn't have a place to go, so he offered me home. When did you move in with Nick? Halloween last year. And when did you move out? I think it was like the last week in August. Tell me about the environment at the house and next house.

It was usually, you know, pretty calm. Like, we had, it was me and Nick for a while. And then Keith moved in a couple of months later. Do you know where Keith is now? I have no idea. at this point in their investigation, police had established an approximate time of death for the victim they had found in the desert. The murder had likely happened in the summer of 2017, which coincidentally was the same time that Nick, Montana, and Keith were all living together. For police, if Nick was responsible for the murder,

it seemed unlikely that Montana did not know anything about it. You would have been living at a house when this happened. I know you know something. I'm looking at you right now, and I know you do. And I need you to be, you can't, this is. I'm you do. And I need you to be in this, you can't, this is... I was there.

You know what, I'm gonna be in trouble. I don't want anybody gonna tell. The suspicions that the police had about Montana were right. She did know something. And according to her, there was a day in late June of 2017 when Nick came home from work, just like he always did. But Nick wasn't alone. With him was a young man that Montana had never met before.

I know when they, Nick came home with this kid, I don't know his name. He said that he picked him up and he was a hitchhiker and we were gonna feed him dinner and let him take a shower and then it was gonna drop him off and then he said that they were gonna go And um, stay cool. All right. And then, when they go, he wasn't there. You didn't go with him to shoot your avid. At this point, the police were confident that Nick Van Enberg was their man, but they actually didn't have much evidence against him. All they really had was Montana's account of a hitchhiker that Nick took hunting, and Donny Daniel's

obscure secondhand account of what Nick's roommate Keith had said. Still unable to locate Keith, the logical course of action was to bring Nick in for questioning, and hopefully push him into a confession. But that was a risky move, and it would tip off Nick that the police were on to him, and they might not get anything from him. The next best thing they could do was link the murder victim to Nick, which meant they needed to identify the body. And that's exactly what they were about to do. In October of 2017, two deer hunters discovered a dead body in the Idaho Bruno Desert.

The body was that of a young man. He had been shot to death, and police began investigating 27-year-old Marine Nick Vandenberg as a suspect. Based on their interviews with people that Nick knew, police were becoming more confident that Nick was their guy. But there were still a lot of questions. Mainly, who was the victim? And why was he murdered? The story of how a dead body ended up in the hide-and-seek desert began three months prior to its discovery and over 500 miles away in Junction City, Oregon, where a young father was making plans to travel to Nebraska. And that young father was 18-year-old Hunter Allen Smith.

Hunter was born on October 2, 1998 in Breetsport, Oregon, a small little coastal town that no one's ever heard of. Everybody loved Hunter. From the minute he was born, he was my little sidekick for the first four years of his life. When he was younger, he was a people pleaser. He was my little doll. Whatever Mimi said, he did. According to his aunt, Hunter Smith had a supportive and stable upbringing. He was surrounded by a family that loved him and looked out for him. And he was raised in Junction City, Oregon by a single mother who watched Hunter grow into a rebellious teenager. He was just the typical teenage boy, other than he was a stoner.

He was a skater boy. He started to fall in with a bunch of kids that weren't the best for him. Got into major trouble. He had been on probation probably three or four times before he was 16. As a young teenager Hunter dropped out of high school. He liked to smoke pot, was usually unemployed, and had very few prospects. And he also had some unlucky run-ins with police, which landed him on probation. Hunter was an exactly creating an auspicious start for his life as an adult. Aside from getting stoned and partying with his friends, the only thing that Hunter seemed to care

about was his girlfriend, who eventually ended up living with Hunter and his mother's house. I let her move in when her grandmother kicked her out of her own house and told them, yo, I don't care what you guys do. Just don't get pregnant. Hunter's mom was pretty easy going when it came to house rules. Despite her only directive about making babies, she soon learned that hunter and his girlfriend were going to be parents. Although an unexpected newborn baby didn't seem like something that Hunter was ready to handle, the news turned out to be a blessing in disguise. Hunter loved his daughter with every ounce of his being. He was a high school dropout

wanting to hang out with friends and party, but the second that he found out that he was going to be a father, that changed his life. He got his GED, he got a job, he was gonna be the father he never had. That little girl, the moon, the stars, everything was her. He doated on her. He did everything with her. That little bundler joy was what was keeping him out of jail. Hunter got his act together and fully committed to his role as a father. But while he was working hard to make a life for his baby girl, Hunter's relationship with his girlfriend began to fall apart. The pressures of parenthood resulted in constant fighting between the two of them. And although Hunter wanted to keep the family together, it just didn't seem possible.

The two of them went their separate ways. Following this breakup, Hunter remained committed to taking care of his daughter, and he also met someone new, 19-year-old Christina Stevens. Hunter Smith was a quirky, always joking, always willing to help hardworking. Anything you ever needed, you asked him and he got it done with a smile on his face. He likes being someone that you could be proud of. And if he was within his goal to do something to make you proud, he would go far beyond your expectations to do it. After meeting each other, Hunter and Christina grew very close very quickly and one of the

things that attracted Christina to Hunter in the first place was his unwavering dedication to his daughter. When I met him, he 100% of the time had his daughter in his arms, his constant feeding her, he's bouncing around, loving on her, smiling in her face. There's tons and tons of pictures of Hunter and his daughter together. He loved that little girl. That was his pride and joy. After only a few weeks of knowing each other, teenagers, Hunter and Christina gave in to

their young and impulsive love and decided to get married. The two of them moved into an apartment together, they each got a job, and they began what they thought was going to be the story of happily ever after. Unfortunately, that's not how the world works, and things didn't go as planned. Their desire to constantly be around one another didn't last beyond the honeymoon phase. I was very quick, it was six months long, it was going great until our age started showing and he made a mistake and I made a mistake and I had a separation. Christina and Hunter decided to separate, but even so they remained friends and they

also remained husband and wife, leaving the option open that maybe, just maybe, the two of them could reconcile. Following this separation, Hunter weighed his options. Still putting his responsibilities as a father before anything else, Hunter considered how he might best take care of his daughter. In doing so, he reached out to a former co-worker that was living in Nebraska. Going back to Nebraska, he had a friend from work that said, I have a place you can stay. We've talked to the managers, you have a job, you just need to get here. He didn't want to rely on the family and Hunter wanted the best life for his daughter

He believed okay if I leave then there won't be fighting So she'll have a good life with her mother. I can go to Nebraska Make money and send back child support so he packed up a tent and He decided to hitchhike and he decided to hitchhike. With a place to live and a job lined up, Hunter believed that the best way to take care of his daughter was to move to Nebraska. All he had to do was get there. In an effort to save money, while also not willing to ask his family for help with travel expenses,

Hunter decided that he was going to make the more than 1600 mile trip from Junction City, Oregon to Lincoln, Nebraska by hitchhiking. And in late of June 2017, Hunter set out for his new life in a new state. Only Hunter never arrived at his destination. No one ever even thought of calling Bureau of Mom to call me and tell me that my son was hitchhiking. How I found out that Hunter was missing was when his friend Ariel had contacted my mom and tells her that she's filing a missing person's report because Hunter never made it to Nebraska. After learning that Hunter's friend had filed a missing person's report because Hunter never made it to Nebraska. After learning that Hunter's friend had filed a missing person's report with police in Nebraska, Hunter's mom and

aunt did the same thing in Oregon. Unfortunately, Hunter was 18 years old. He was an adult. And to Hunter's family, the police didn't seem very interested in finding him. During the time that Hunter was classified missing, I was scared. Police Department wasn't giving us any information. My sister, or Kale, had gone through many channels to get missing posters put out on the internet for us. It was a difficult time for the family. The contact we had with the police was very little.

It was mainly just doing the missing persons report and the police were, he's 18, he's probably just traveling and not wanting to talk to family. Depending on the route he took, Hunter's trip likely would have taken him across the state of Oregon, across Idaho, passing briefly through parts of Utah, and finally into Nebraska. There really was no telling where Hunter may have ended up, and it was possible that Hunter

simply changed his mind about his destination. I even took a flight to Houston, Texas, thinking that he always said that if he ever wanted to go missing, he would go to Mexico. And that was the closest I can get to Mexico. And I was handing out his flyers to truck drivers. While Hunter's aunt was spreading the news of Hunter's disappearance on the internet,

and Hunter's mom was passing out missing persons' fires to truck drivers in Texas. Hunter's wife, Christina, was doing her own investigating. I tried to keep doing contact with the police, yes. They were very bad at keeping contact with me, even as next to Ken. I did a lot of investigating myself to the point where I had a hostate police contact with me and told me to back off I was investigating I was interfering with their investigation. I had paper trails of him. I I turned into an anti-gear trying to find him. Unfortunately nobody in Hunter's family had any luck

locating Hunter, but then three months after he went missing in October of 2017, the police finally After he went missing in October of 2017, the police finally got back to them. And the news wasn't good. Hunter's grandmother, maternal grandmother, got a phone call from the Drunker and Steve Police Department saying, Hunter's mother needs to come in here. We need to get a DNA sample. The Idaho State Police Department says they have found a body. And I about lost it. Cause you know, here it is, my baby is missing. So, you know, they took me over the police department, crying, emotional wreck. You know, we go get the DNA

sample. And the two weeks while they're waiting for the DNA results were the longest two weeks of my life. When the DNA results came back, Hunter's mom's worst nightmare was confirmed. The body that police had found in the Bruno Desert of Idaho was, in fact, her son, Hunter Smith. Having finally identified the body, the next thing that police needed to do was confirm that Hunter Smith was the hitchhiker that Nick Van Nberg had brought home and taken hunting. To do this, police went back to Nick's ex-girlfriend, Montana Reed. a read. There was now no doubt that Hunter Smith was with Well, I can also say that I'm 100% sure that that's the body we found in the desert. There was now no doubt that Hunter Smith was with Nick Van Den Berg around the time he was murdered. All that was left to do was bring Nick in for questioning.

Nick was a pre-featured taken time to come and talk to us. Of course, I... The reason we wanted to talk to on Facebook about the dead body that was found in the desert. He shared an article about it on his own profile page and added some commentary to go along with the post. This is close to where I live, what the fuck? and added some commentary to go along with the post. Here's some friendly advice for all you crazy fucks out there. If the body of a murder victim is ever found in your area, and you have thoughts about

how the murderer should have better handled the disposal of the body, don't share that shit on Facebook. Dummy. Don't share that at all. With anyone. dummy don't share. I don't have any idea. After Nick's denial, the topic of this police interview quickly shifted to the hitchhiker that Nick brought home and introduced to his then-girlfriend Montana Reed.

Nick readily admitted that he picked up a young man walking on the nearby highway and brought him to his house. You said this guy he was hitchhiking through and he him to get there. I ask him where he wanted to go because I'm obviously not gonna drive into Nebraska and he said well he doesn't have any money anywhere to stay or anything like that and I said well if you haven't eaten if you're hungry whatever I could take you home make dinner I got to make dinner anyway and I can bring it back to town tonight or in the morning and he said all alright we had dinner and Keith was there and Montana was there and this kid

Nick Montana, Hunter Smith and Nick's roommate Keith Rabie all had dinner together and then decided to go shoot rabbits in the Bruno desert which apparently was not an uncommon way for Nick and his friends to pass the time. So you guys had him at the house, you ate dinner with him, okay? You went out and shoot rabbits? Yep. Did he shoot rabbits too? Yeah, he was shooting that 30 count.

Okay. What kind of vehicle were you guys in? Where in my car? That car, Elder? That Hyundai. And you take it out and... Oh yeah, deer hunting with it and everything. Yeah. Still blood in the trunk from deer hunting

from the season and all that. I mean, you laugh. I mean, I hear that. That's all right. You know what I mean? It sticks. Like, this is the kind of stuff we do. I mean, that's how we pass time.

They're kind of full of us. You're doing the desert. According to Nick, while out hunting rabbits, the young hitchhiker said something that prompted Nick to take back his offer to let Hunter spend the night at his house. And Nick decided to drop the hitchhiker off at a nearby gas station. He had made a comment about Montana, some sexual stuff about more of, she would sleep with

him and all this. And I said no, because at the time Montana and I were semi-seen each other. Okay. So you're going to show around them out home, get them $20 cash. What would you think if I told you that I thought the guy that was out there in the desert? It's the same guy. I think that's kind of crazy to say the least. Little uncomfortable at the same time. I wouldn't, because that would instantly point a finger at me, being the last person that

saw him. Nick knew the score. He had picked up a hitchhiker, took him hunting in the Idaho Bruno Desert, and that same hitchhiker was found shot to death in that same desert. He was obviously a suspect, and the police weren't buying a story about dropping Hunter off at a gas station. that you shot him. Okay. So, you can sit here and blow smoke at my backside, or you can tell us the truth. All right.

So, do you want to tell us about what happened out there? Yeah. Okay. But we were out there shooting rabbits, drinking, like that stuff. And we got out. He had said he wanted a shoe. And he shot at a rock.

And I was like, don't shoot at the rock. Like, ricochets happen. And he said it'll be okay. And he turned around. And I was standing just outside the driver's door. And he turned around and I heard the gun click. And the muzzle was pointing right at me and click, and I reacted.

And what did you do? I shot him. Now, Nick's story had changed to one of self-defense, as he claimed that his military training instinct kicked in, and he reacted when it appeared that Hunter was going to shoot him. In response to this new version of the story, the detective had a very logical follow-up question. Who all went out to shoot the rabbit? I was myself, my roommate Keith.

Okay, so it was you, Keith and Ness. Montana. Oh, she was there? Yep. If you remember from her earlier police interview, Montana had denied going hunting with Nick, Keith, and the hitchhiker. Well, it turns out that was a lie.

She was with them all right. And this prompted police to go back to Montana and interview her all over again. Likewise, police finally tracked down Nick's former roommate Keith and brought him in for questioning as well. After Nick's confession, Nick was promptly arrested. While he sat in jail, Montana and Keith spoke with police, and painted a much clearer picture of what had really happened to Hunter Smith, and much more disturbing than who was responsible for Hunter's murder

was why they had killed him. In October of 2017, 27-year-old Nick Vandenberg confessed to shooting and killing a young hitchhiker. 18-year-old Hunter Smith in the Idaho Bruno Desert. According to Nick, Hunter's death was a case of self-defense that happened during a hunting trip. When police initially began investigating the case, they were led to Nick as a possible suspect through some people that heard he might be responsible. The information that police received came from secondhand accounts that originated from Nick's former roommate, 34-year-old Keith Reibi. Keith was apparently with Nick and Hunter when Hunter was killed, but Keith had several unrelated

warrants out for his arrest and was actively avoiding law enforcement. For a while, police were unable to locate him, but when they finally did, Keith was arrested and brought in for questioning. Keith was surprisingly willing to talk to police about the hitchhiker that Nick brought home, but he wasn't the only witness that met Hunter Smith that night. There was also Nick's girlfriend, Montana Reed. We were all talking about like why he's going to where he was going. And he said that he was working and he has a kid and he wants to be there for his child and stuff. And we were talking about hunting and he said that he's never gone.

So Nick was like, well we'll go hunting later. We'll go shooting rabbits. Nick showed his large gun collection to Hunter and convinced him to go shooting rabbits. But what Hunter didn't know is that Nick had a different plan, a plan that he quietly shared with both Keith and Montana. And then before we were getting ready to go, Nick had Keith in the room and he was kind of dulling him what was going gonna happen. When this four-some-left nicks house to go shoot rabbits in the desert, the only person that didn't know Hunter wasn't going to survive this trip was Hunter.

This was not a case of self-defense like Knick had claimed. It was a senseless and premeditated murder. And then we found that little turn off. Nick went down it went to the end or not to the end but to the rock and he let the kid get out and shoot out the rock and stuff and then once his bullets were all gone as when they got out and he was just good enough and I looked away. And then they pulled the trigger and it shot him right to stomach. And he'd like, fell back on, he fell onto his back. The kid screamed and said something like,

why, I have a kid or something like that. The kid was like, experiment, why did you do that? Why did you do that? Don't fucking kill me. I have a kid. Don't fucking kill me. And he was like trying to kick his neck, his neck walked up to him. And then that put two rounds of his head in his head. And the kid was still breathing. Even though he's been shot in the head.

Like you're choking on him. You do breathing with blood in his lungs. So, the next point blank shot to start again in a bit. 18-year-old Hunter Smith had never gone hunting before. Weird, huh? Dude named Hunter from Oregon. Doesn't hunt. But he was excited to try it.

He was excited to shoot a gun, and he went into the Idaho desert to do exactly that. Hunter unexpectedly fired his gun at a rock until he ran out of bullets. Then he turned around and, for seemingly no reason at all, without warning, Nick shot Hunter in the stomach. Hunter fell back and his mind raced, trying to make sense of why he had just been shot. And his nick walked over to him, Hunter begged for his life, and screamed out for his daughter. Without hesitation, without mercy, without any sense of humanity at all, Nick shot Hunter twice more. This time, in the head, but Hunter kept breathing a slow death into Hunter's face. of a ditch and then after they were dying we went back to the house and Nick was shooting

rabbits on the way back to the house like nothing had happened. After dragging Hunter's lifeless body into a ditch, Nick and Keith stripped him naked and drove back to Nick's house where Nick burned all of Hunter's belongings, except for one thing, Hunter's driver's license. And he kept the license. And he showed you the driver's license. No, he just put it in his pocket. He said, I'm gonna keep this. I was like, why would you do that? He was like, well, you know, you He was like, well, you have to have, I forgot what it's called,

but when somebody kills somebody and they keep something of their victims, whatever memory barely are, I don't know. It's a trophy, you know? A trophy. Yeah, he said that that's what he was keeping it. Nick held on to Hunter's driver's license as a trophy, and for those of you well-versed and stories about murder, you already know that this is a telltale sign of a psychopath.

Not keen on Nick's behavior, both Montana and Keith moved out of Nick's house, but they also kept quiet about Hunter's murder, and the fact that they knew Nick was planning to kill Hunter before doing so put both of them in a precarious situation with the law. I didn't want it to be the person that I was. Like being there, being there at that moment, anyone, I don't want to remember that. What do you think should happen for your role in this? I don't know. I guess at all phase of my time, if I do time,

I don't want you, but I call doing my time. I feel for you, and then I have the other side of the story where I feel really bad for what happened to that young boy, young man who had a child, a mom, there has been a war for your arrest. Okay. We'll take you from here. You'll get booked into the Twin Falls County jail. Take a breath.

I know. I know. It was coming. After this interview, Montana Read was arrested. And while she acknowledged her guilt and seemed accepting that she would be punished for it, Keith Rabie wasn't as willing to admit fault for his part in Hunter's murder. I'm like a ghost fucker, be backslide. I don't know. It's fucking bullshit if I do.

I just want to be able to see my fucking tan line. I've been doing this for a long time and it never ceases to amaze me when a murder accomplice thinks they've done nothing wrong. If you don't already know this, it's illegal to participate in a planned murder. And if you get caught, you will go to prison. As for Keith, well, he didn't feel like he should be punished for what he had done. He just wanted to see his quote, fucking family,

which is probably exactly what Hunter wanted right before Keith watched Nick shoot Hunter in the head. And it's most certainly how Hunter's mom and daughter will feel for the rest of their lives. I was just say something to Keith and Montana. I would tell them when and if they get out of jail, hug those babies that they have tight. And remember, there is a little girl crying herself to sleep every night because she does not have her father. Just like Montana, Keith Rabie was arrested after his police interview. And while his exact charges were being sorted out, Nick Vandenberg was learning about the possible punishment he faced for killing Hunter Smith.

This is a free call from Nicholas Vandenberg. An inmate at Elmore County, Yale. Hello. What happened next? Well, right now it's murder one. I know. Who did you? Who was it?

It was that hit tiger. Why? There's a lot that went into it, Ma. And they're seeking the death penalty on two charges. The conspiracy for murder and the murder won. Along with a slew of other charges, Nick Manenberg was charged with first-degree murder. Keith Rabie was charged as an accessory to first-degree murder, and Montana Reed was charged with conspiracy to commit murder. Keith Rabie was charged as an accessory to first degree murder, and Montana Reed was charged with conspiracy to commit murder. All three of them faced the death penalty. And as their court proceedings progressed, Hunter's family was not made

aware of anything. If it wasn't for the internet, I honestly don't believe my family would have known that there was court proceedings going on. I was checking on the Idaho website finding out what was going on. Prosecution was not forthcoming to my family about what the proceedings were. We were depending on the internet to find

out this information. Just like Hunter's aunt and his mother, Hunter's wife Christina only learned how the Idaho courts handled Hunter's case after the decisions were made. Nobody from Hunter's family was present in the courtroom when any of the sentencing took place. I would have loved to. I would have loved to attend. I didn't find out anything until I was too late. And they always told me out the verdict after, you know, a court session happened is when I would finally get notified, oh, this is what happened.

The prosecution did not work with me at all. I had to do everything myself, getting any kind of info was pulling teeth. Without consulting Hunter's wife or his mother or anyone in Hunter's family for that matter, prosecutors offered Nick, Keith, and Montana plea bargains. The death penalty would be taken off the table in all three cases if they pleaded guilty, and all of them took the deal. This outcome for which she had absolutely no say was not something that Hunter's mom was very happy about.

How I think they should have been handled is either electric chair or life in prison with them writing my granddaughter a letter every year on the anniversary of her father's death with them explaining why they did it. And you know, making them think that there is a child out there that they took the father away from. After the guilty pleas, Montana Read was sentenced to 15 years in prison and will be eligible for parole in November of 2022. Keith Rabie was sentenced to 26 years and he will be eligible for parole in 2028.

Nick Vandenberg was sentenced to 30 years to life, which means that after he serves his 30 years, Nick will also be eligible for parole. And it also means that all three of the people responsible for Hunter's murder will probably be released one day. With the Idaho courts accepting all three guilty pleas, there was never a murder trial for Hunter Smith. And without any trials, Hunter's family was deprived of the chance to ask the all-consuming question, why did this happen? Why did Nick Van Den Berg kill Hunter Smith?

This question continues to weigh heavily on Hunter's family, as everyone seems to have their own theory about Nick's motives. I believe Nick murdered Hunter to have the thrill of the kill. It was a joy kill. It was a can we get away with this kill. Hunter's aunt believes Nick and his friends simply wanted to murder someone for the fun of it, and to see if they could get away with it. Meanwhile, Hunter's mom suspects that something far more calculated took place. My speculation, as I actually believe, that it was a murder for hire.

Hunter's mom suspects that Nick Van Den Berg was hired to kill her son by the mother of Hunter's daughter. To clarify, she doesn't suspect Hunter's wife, Christina, who met and married Hunter after the birth of his child. Hunter's mom suspects the ex-girlfriend, who at one time lived with Hunter in his mom's house. I believe that involved in this, because the day we were told that Hunter was missing, I went over to talk to her and

possibly, you know, could soul her and she comes flying out of her bedroom with her new boyfriend and tow. Like, he's dead. He's dead. He's rotting somewhere in the desert, which is where they found him. With the utmost respect for Hunter's mom, and while recognizing that there is no way to even begin to understand the pain she feels over the loss of her son, it unfortunately needs to be said that her murder for higher theory is considerably unlikely.

But it does demonstrate the kind of finger pointing and conspiracy theories that can happen when the question of why is left unanswered. Sadly, Hunter's mom wasn't the only one misled while trying to understand why Nick Van and Berg did what he did. In an attempt to get answers, Hunter's wife Christina reached out to both Nick and Keith after they had been sent to prison. Well, originally, I had asked the detectives if I could meet them in person and detectives said that it probably wasn't the best idea because it would make them uncomfortable, which I laughed in his face.

So after that, I figured I'd probably just take things in my own hands and do it myself. So I like a whole lot of this program called JPE. I just happened to search their names, nicks and keiths, and they came up for them. In part, JPE is an online messaging service that allows prison inmates to communicate with the outside world. And Christina used this service to find

and chat with Nick Vandenberg and Keith Rabie. When she did this, Christina didn't reveal she was Hunter's wife. Instead, she posed as a woman that was merely curious about why Nick and Keith were in prison. As you might suspect, being two lonely dudes in prison, both Nick and Keith, tried to take the conversation in a romantic direction. This is an excerpt of what Nick had to say when Christina asked him about his personality. I'm a simple guy. I like the simple life, cold beer by the fire in the evenings and gardening. I like being able to help people when I can.

I like your face. I think you're gorgeous. I'm always here if you need to vent or need someone to listen or tell you how special you are. My friendship is unconditional. I hope you know that. I know you are an intelligent and beautiful woman and you deserve to be treated as such. Next sure is a Casanova, isn't it? And you can't help but feel for Christina. I mean, can you imagine being hit on by the guy that murdered your husband?

Oh, it was very difficult. Especially since I didn't know who I was. And I figured if they didn't know who I was, one, I didn't know if they could legally talk to me. Two, if they didn't know who I was, maybe they'd be more honest. Because I don't think they have quite that extensive of a visitor's list or people talking to them at all, I wanted it truth.

I wanted the whole truth. Nothing but the truth. So, but then we started to like their flirtation comments and it was very uncomfortable. I would go weeks without even replying. So I had another question that only they could answer. Christina continued messaging Nick for weeks. She pushed for details about Hunter's murder, and Nick responded by giving her a not identical

but similar version of what he had told detectives during his interrogation. As for what I did, myself and my two roommates took a guy we didn't know out shooting with us because he wanted to go. We had all been drinking, and when I turned around he was pointing a rifle at me. I shot him twice, then again twice more when he was on the ground. Then we tried to cover it up. If you google me it says all kinds of things about me that are not true.

They make me sound crazy, like I was a serial killer or some shit. I'm sure my PTSD from deployment to Afghanistan didn't help the situation at all, frowny face. Nick claimed that the online articles written about him made him look crazy. In reality, he did a fine job of looking like a psychopath all by himself.

In any case, Christina kept pressing Nick for details about Hunter's murder and Nick maintained that it was an act of self-defense mixed with his PTSD, and a kill or be killed instinct that was instilled in him by the military. Christina believed him. I did believe what Nick told me at first because it kind of lined up with something that Hunter did when we were together when it came to shooting something towards somebody. I'd be able to be again incident. But so yeah, I can't I can see Hunter doing that. I can see Hunter being a dork and looking down a scope at, you know, Nick, and not realizing how stupid that looks, especially to somebody who got back from overseas. And it had PTSD and Nick instinctively

did what he'd been trained to do by our government. And that was to shoot at the gun that's pointing at you. If you're keeping score, there are now three theories as to why Nick Van den Berg killed Hunter Smith, the first being that Nick and his friends just wanted to murder someone for the fun of it, and to test if they could escape justice. The second is Nick was hired to kill Hunter by Hunter's ex-girlfriend, and the third is that Nick acted in self-defense when Hunter pointed a gun at him. acted in self-defense when Hunter pointed a gun at him. But the truth is, there is only one person who knows

why Nick killed Hunter. And that's Nick. Based on the evidence and based on all of the things that Nick said before and after the murder, we can reach a likely explanation as to why Nick did what he did. Did he ever, besides his fake afghan stand stories where he said he killed people, which are true? Did he ever talk about killing anybody outside of the military?

Yes, he did. He said when he lived in Caldwell, people would hire him kind of. They would pay him to go take care of people that they didn't like. Like, there was like three or four different stories that he told us. Do you think these are real? No. Before Nick killed Hunter, he had often bragged about killing people when he was in the military, which as far as the police could tell, was bullshit. According to them, Nick had never killed anyone

during his time as a Marine. And after his service, Nick had also lied about being a paid killer and told his friends that he had spent time as a hitman. Then, not long after killing Hunter, Nick attempted to coax Keith into killing more people. We had talked about it and he had asked me if I could do that and I told him, dude, I can not fucking do that shit. Keith was interested in helping Nick commit any more murders, but that didn't stop Nick from trying to rally his friends for another kill.

And then he talked about doing it more afterwards, like going on Highway 51 out in the middle of nowhere and acting like his car was broke down and then in the killing whoever stopped. He talked about doing that, he talked about paying him or his chikers. He told me in Keith that it was our turn next and he was talking about getting heather into it. Like he wanted a little community of little killers. And I just, I heard the long one with it because I didn't know what else to do. I should have gone out.

I should have told somebody. I should have tried to stop it. Nick wanted to kill someone, and he did. He killed Hunter Smith. But just being a killer wasn't enough for Nick. If it was, he wouldn't have bragged about his non-existent body count while serving in the Marines. And he wouldn't have lied to his friends about working as a paid killer.

And he wouldn't have needed Montana and Keith to join him for Hunter's murder. And let's not forget that he also posted his handy work on his own Facebook page for fuck's sake. What Nick really wanted was for other people to know that he was a killer. And Nick likely saw Hunter a young, skinny, non-threatening hitchhiker traveling alone as the perfect victim. Simply put, the likely reason that Nick killed Hunter was to fulfill his sick and twisted desire to show his friends that he was a killer. And it's truly scary to think about what might have happened if Nick had gotten away with what he did. Considering the things he had said to Keith and Montana after the murder, there is little

doubt that Nick would have killed again. He very well might have been a serial killer in the making. If I was to tell Nickless anything, you got lucky, fucker. He gets to live his life. He gets to see, you know, his family. What does my son get to do? He gets to do nothing because he's dead. Not unlike many teenagers, Hunter Smith struggled

to find his place in the world. He was a high school dropout and a pothead. But when Hunter's daughter was born, everything changed. She became his whole world, his reason to turn his life around. And one of the more tragic aspects of his murder is that Hunter was actively trying to do the right thing. He was trying to provide for his daughter. He loved his daughter with everything he had. He would always sing to her. And the biggest memory I remember of Hunter and his daughter was her sitting in her little

bassinet at my mother's house, at his Nana's house. And he's singing, he's singing Uncle Cracker's Follow Me. That was the first song that Hunter ever sang at a year old in the car with his mother. So he was singing his song to his daughter. In his final moments of life, while lying in the dirt and sand of the Idaho desert, Hunter Smith begged for his life. He screamed out for mercy for the sake of his daughter, but his pleas were ignored. Montana Reed and Keith Rabie did nothing to stop what was happening as Nick Vandenberg shot Hunter several times in the face and head. And what Nick had done forever left a daughter without her father, an aunt without her nephew, a wife without her husband, and a mother without her son.

Nick has crushed my family. People say that time will heal wounds. It's four years later and these wounds are still fresh. Well, would I say to Hunter, if he was here right now, I would tell Hunter that I'm sorry for our mistakes that I have definitely blamed myself for his death for a very long time. And that I would give anything to go back and fix it.

I wish I could have tried places with you. If Hunter was here right now, I would hug him and tell him that Mama's here. Mama's always been here for him. And that her, that his daughter is growing up to be a beautiful young lady. The murder of Hunter Smith has left his entire family with an unyielding sadness. And their grief has only been prolonged and intensified by the fact that they never got answers as to why Hunter was killed. As this episode of Sword and Scale airs,

this is the first time that Hunter's family will hear the police interrogation audio of Hunter's killer and the accomplices. It is our sincere hope that by telling this story and by presenting it in the way in which we have, that we have helped address the question of why and provided Hunter we hope you've enjoyed it. If you have, consider joining PLUS for just 5 bucks a month to get all kinds of goodies. Join now at sword and scale.com slash PLUS.

Stay safe. One-time listener, ridiculously huge fan, because I know I'm creating some kind of time loophole portal. I'd like to comment on the commentary about the commentary. Where's all the ladies who gave you the wrong... oh man, your fans are the buzz. Yeah, you're awesome. And of course, as everybody said, as I'm commenting on their commentary, I'd like to comment that they're comments on your commentary is correct. No, it's... you're the best.