Sword and Scale - Episode 219

Episode Date: September 5, 2022

A mother’s unconditional love is put to the test when Steven Kelsey returns from basic training to spend the holidays with his family. What starts as a loving family reunion ends in a manhunt through the Michigan forests and a mother questioning her ability to forgive her own son.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Sort and scale contains adult themes and violence and is not intended for all audiences Listener discretion is advised I know I'm a culture firm, I've got a lot of ideas, I've got a lot of ideas. I don't know. Hey, you may have heard of me. I'm the very, very bad man with the excellent podcast. This is Swing Scale, episode 219, season 9. Showed that we've built the worst sponsorship. Real. Hey what's up?

Sword and Scale Plus is available to you. It's got a lot of great stuff, lots of extra content. You can get it at Sword and Scale.com. That's Plus. Support us if you like the show. See you there. We've all heard that expression. The face only a mother could love. It's kind of a rude comment, but it's meant to convey the all-encompassing love of one's

mother. No one could love a person more than the woman who bore and labored the child into the world. But how can a mother's love ever wane? Is a mother's love truly unconditional? Does forgiveness come hand in hand with that unconditional love, or does it matter what the mother's child has done? This week, we retreat to rural Michigan, and a story that certainly puts a mother's love to the test. I'm actually amazed anyone wants to talk to me.

Why? Well, never mind. Don't answer that. I understand why. 19-year-old Stephen Kelsey is talking to his father on a telephone through a grimy window at an Oakland County jail. I got a letter from him, but before that I got a letter from my lawyer to him. I mean, not to write anybody until he talks to me. Relay that to your mom.

Can you tell her it's dead for what it's worth? I don't, I don't talk about it. Not right now, okay? All right. To land himself in County lockup, Steven had committed murder. Even so, his father was standing by his side. I forgive you.

And I forgive you. I love you too. Thanks for forgiving me, but even if I get out of here, only God knows what will happen. That's the voice of a man who has realized he is likely screwed and has given up any hope that he'll ever get out. He had been having a rough time with what he did. Also jail is just as awful as you might expect, if not worse. When I got here, I was... Well, when they picked me up, I was relatively close to Flint, so... When first arriving at the jail, it was a brief respite from his arduous journey. The day that I got here, I slept well.

After doing 12 or 12, almost 19 hours straight of walking, I slept with something not really. Anyone would be tired after trudging through the woods covering 16 miles and 12 hours during a Michigan winter. Stephen had marched for hours straight as if on a military mission. Eventually, when the woods parted and revealed a highway, he sought the shelter of a store for warmth and to beg for a ride. This is where he was spotted and quickly apprehended. And just in case you were thinking about committing a crime, here is a little taste of Jail Life. Yeah, so 14 is very happy. But if you could write me about current events and what's going on politically and stuff like that,

I know he came in office like today. Jail definitely didn't agree with that last guy. It was then that Steven began to tremble, but not with fear. The booth he was using to communicate with his father was designed to be used while sitting. Yet there was no chair. If he sat down, you could see only the top of his head. If he stood up, you could see him from the nose down. So in order to look his father in the eyes during the 30 minute chat, he had been squatting ever so slightly, and it was taking a toll. what I hear from people is here it is. I don't worry about that, just put your trust in Christ.

Yeah, of course, I'm well-hated here. Why? What are they saying? They say everything from that they're going to kill me when I get to prison on down. The crime Stephen was arrested for was so heinous, not only did it warrant protective like custody by being placed on suicide watch, but it also earned him the unbridled hate of all the other inmates. In fact, the crime was so bad that those sentiments seem to be the consensus with the general community as well. I mean, lots of them. Oh. Okay, according to Mama, I've received over almost a thousand death threats. That's according to your attorney. That's according to Mama.

And the letter she sent me. I don't know about that. I don't know. Next time I see my attorney, I'm going to ask them because if that's true, that's more than the president gets. Don't sound too impressed with yourself there, Stevie. Obama went on to average something like 12,000 threats a year. While his father was there offering all the support he could muster under the circumstances, Stephen's mother

was not. She just couldn't see him it. No, you're gonna need that. Okay. Aside from the sentiment it takes to write and mail a letter, his mom's opinion of him likely resembled that of everyone else, maybe even Stephen himself. You know God will forgive you if you ask. You know that right? Yes. Yeah. And eventually your mom will too.

I don't know what you wrote in the letter, but for when I told her that phone it was probably not good. No. By any chance? I'm not going to ask. No, by chance, one. What is an atom complex? What?

An atom complex. I don't have the slightest idea of why. It's one of the things that she wrote. I don't know what it is. An atom complex is where a person suffers guilt because they broke a parental law that they didn't previously know was forbidden. Parents are the first people to teach us societal laws. If we didn't know any better, we'd all walk around furiously masturbating. It's a natural reaction to the onset of puberty, but society deems open masturbation,

and appropriate, with good reason. But when a child gets scolded for their instinctual behavior, they don't really understand what they did wrong. You have to explain it to them. But surely, Steven knew that murder was forbidden, even if it does come as naturally to some people as rubbing one out. It seems that with that comment that she was trying to come to grips with her disgust for what he did and her concern for her son. She wanted to forgive him, but it wasn't happening just yet. Stephen had plenty of time to wait though. He wasn't going

anywhere anytime soon and he knew it. All he could do was wait and pray for forgiveness and also pray that he wasn't murdered in jail. with a pledge to bring him a full Bible rather than the one that the county provided. He said, a little prayer with a son. Father God, in the name of the Holy Jesus Lord, Lord I put a hedge protection on my, on my son. Father, I ask for your mercy and grace. Lord, I ask you to cover his mind and his body and soul with your blood. In Jesus' name, amen. Amen.

Covered in his blood might have been a poor choice of words, considering. Well, all right, son, I love you, and I'll be praying for you. And with that, their timed conversation was over. Stephen's father would sit there for a full minute afterward, just looking, presumably at Stephen as he slowly walked back to the pseudo-safety of his jail cell. Stephen committed murder and seemed to be accepting his eventual fate. His father was trying to stay supportive, but he too seemed to know what would happen. Stephen's mother couldn't even bear to see her son after what he did, leaving him feeling

not only remorse for the murder, but regret for letting his mother down. But what exactly would it take for a loving mother to forsake her only son? Steven Kelsey found himself in jail for murder when a countywide manhunt found him begging for rides after hiking through miles of woods to avoid detection. Being on the run, on foot, in Michigan during the winter, is not advisable. He was pretty depressed between trying to accept the idea that he might be in prison forever, and that forever might not be that long, with most of the prison population threatening to kill him

for what he did. He wished he wasn't there, but he knew it was right. He did in fact do what he was being accused of, and he would pay the time. Only a short time previous, Steven's sister Jessica was preparing for his return home. She hadn't seen him in a long time, and by most accounts was looking forward to her brother being home. He arrived on December 18th, the week before Christmas. The holidays were fun with the family together again. Steven seemed about the same, except now very pro-Army. By New Year's Eve, Steven's trip was nearly over.

That night she kept mostly to herself when her parents had friends and neighbors come over to join the festivities. She did have a lively evening online texting her boyfriend and an old flame until nearly 4 a.m. The next afternoon, a little after 2 p.m. a deputy knocked on the door looking for Steven. They had found some of his belongings in a dumpster. Stephen was a soft-spoken man of small stature coming in at 5.7 and only 145 pounds. He wasn't from the area but he had been there long enough to be considered a local. I had from 2010, when I was only 12 or so years old, I lived here, from 30 to my third age. I lived as a scientist.

Highland, Michigan, was a modest town holding on to the restored luster of a historic downtown. It's a quaint place to spend one's developmental years. Its population was modest too, and only a little more than 19,000 residents scattered throughout the nearly 34 square miles. There wasn't much to do there for Steven other than perhaps take up fishing in one of the 26 lakes in town. He didn't have many friends and mostly kept to himself. He did enjoy a good trip to the local public library though. with less than 30% of the populists having a degree beyond high school, there weren't many

examples of success Stephen could follow. He dropped out of school and joined the army. What did you go on in military? Two months ago sir, I took a raid, sir. And what branch were you going? Army, sir. Army? Yes, sir. I'm very sorry. And what branch were you going to? Army, sir. Army? Yes, sir.

How long was your basic training? Are you dumb and basic? Yes, sir. What are you dumb as that? I'm supposed to be done by third horses, sir. You don't have to call me, sir. You're really in common gear. You can call me Dave.

All right. When I know you're in the military, and they kind of tell you all that you don't have to do those awesome. I mean, we should be more comfortable doing that. That's fine, but Sarah, I've been in there for years, it's not a good enough time. He would go to the public library and get lost in a good manga comic book or fantasy novel. Manga is a Japanese comic book, by the way.

It's not surprising that he joined the military. He yearned to get away judging by his choice and entertainment. So you've been in the military, you've been in since October? It's over. It's over, right? And are you done with the basic and into your training? I'm not sure I do basic, sir. I don't realize it was that long?

It wasn't, sir. I had to go through a three-week, well, only conversation, or a day. I don't know how my paperwork is. Shamiyao. I don't know how my paperwork is. I'm going to wait in line. Shamiyao, cover here. Well, you first got there? Yes, sir. I had three of these.

So are we in private or a school, which is a new professor? It's designed to get people who have dropped out of high school. They're G's. He was only halfway through his basic training and needed to go back and finish. He had only been in town for his holiday leave. It was New Year's Day when deputies came looking for him, because they found his belongings and wanted to make sure he was all right. His mother, Jennifer Spencer, told the cops everything was fine,

but he wasn't there. She didn't seem too worried, after all he was a grown man. Later, more of Stephen's belongings would be found miles away from his backpack. The local authorities needed to locate him. His belongings, showing up all over the county, was not a good sign. He had a scheduled flight back to boot camp the following morning, so the deputy called the airport and had them look for him. So the deputy called the airport and had them look for him. Now things were getting weird because he hadn't left on an earlier flight. He wasn't at the airport and nobody had seen him. We know that he was meandering through the woods between townships, but at the time he was

a missing person of the highest priority. A little more than an hour later, Jennifer decided to wake up Jessica. It was New Year's Day, but sleeping until after 3pm was a little ridiculous. Jennifer opened the ordinary door to Jessica's room, a door she had opened many times before. But this time, it opened a portal to hell, full of pain, suffering, and anguish, full of dark secrets we wish we could forget, and full of tormenting, understanding, of why no one could find Stephen. It was 5 a.m. the last time anyone saw him. His disabled aunt, who also lived with the family, saw him as he left for a walk. When she asked him if anything was wrong,

he said, no, go back to bed. It wouldn't be until sometime around 7 pm that the authorities would finally find him. After spending the day following a trail of breadcrumbs, they found him by chance when a store saw him begging the customers for rides. By then, it was somehow 16 miles away in Tyrone Township. all the way down until we came to the real stop. They were coming to the demonstrate. We followed that, we were crossing parents until we came to like, four stop, they were in love. Stephen had set off on foot in single-digit temperatures,

sometimes traversing undeveloped swaths of forest, walking nearly nine miles to Hartland, Michigan, and a Wendy's. If you couldn't make that out, he said, I threw my rucksack and my black coat in the, then he trails off. And the dumpster at Wendy's is where employees found his backpack. Inside the backpack were some clothes, a soft drink, some shoes, and an open bag of chips, all of which were covered in blood. Oh, and an entire butcher block full of knives.

Minus one. Why did you take all the knives with you? While being polite with his yes-surs, he didn't explain why he took the whole block of knives, or why he even thought it was a good idea to set off on this arduous journey through the Michigan wilderness. So you travel five miles and you throw it in a dumpster. You go to an ATM, you draw 260 dollars, you buy water, gatorade, and I believe you bought some band-aid student, yeah?

What did the band-aid come from? Band-aid's coming from the hotel room and we're in the service here from the band-aid. Okay. You go to Target, get one close. Yes sir. Why didn't you just call the police and say here I am, come and get me. After dumping some stuff at Wendy's, he bought some new clothes at Target and got a hotel room so he could take a shower.

It certainly seemed like he was going to make a run for it, or at least just see how long it would take before they caught him. Steve and I, I guess, you're going to need to explain to us. I mean, I don't know why I did it. You're going to have to come up with something better than that, but. Right, I don't know why I did it. Speak up, speak up. I don't know why I did it.

I am. I'm just a little bit of something. I'm thinking, you know, to me it sounds like I'm seeing your life or telling you the truth. We went to great lengths, not to get caught, after you loved. Once I had my mind was all, it was all like an egg in a scrambled egg in a song that was heard. He admitted that even to him what he was saying sounded like bullshit, but he was adamant that it was the truth.

He simply didn't have an explanation for why he did what he did. To understand what Stephen did to have multiple law enforcement agencies across several county searching for him, we have to go back about 24 hours to New Year's Eve. Yesterday morning I was playing yards. I had a drink, so I was trying to start. I hope you drink it. Have the morning and also I'll get the morning coke. It was New Year's Eve and Stephen's parents didn't see a problem with them drinking. They figured if he could join the army and defend our country, he could have a few drinks

in the safety of, the guests all went home. Soon after, his parents and his disabled aunt also went to bed. It was just Stephen and Jessica left awake. In true sibling fashion as soon as Jessica fell asleep, Stephen started to mess with her. Stephen started throwing his smelly socks in her face. Once she got annoyed and complained, he tossed his pillow at her head. Even though Stephen was 20 and Jessica was 17, Stephen irritated his little sister just for the sake of watching her get you're trying to irritate her. She was throwing your sacks and pillow there. Oh, she doing it that way.

She was trying to sleep. What time do you think I want? I don't know, sir. I want to come, sir. Stephen was having a hard time saying aloud what he'd been dwelling on for hours while walking. They already knew what he did, but it was time for him to come clean and admit it. With the guilt he felt, confessing seemed even more difficult than the crime itself.

Why is it that all these people always act like confessing his harder than doing the crime that got them there? I'm sorry, it's hard to tell. You know what I understand then? He was there to confess. He already wived his rights. They just had to get the ball rolling. I think when you talk about it, Stephen, when you talk about it with us, I think it might

start being a little bit easier for you to talk about it. All right, and I understand that first step of saying what occurred or whatever, and I understand that's a hard thing to do. One thing Stephen wants you to understand it from our perspective any how, is that's not, we don't sit in here in judgment of anybody. That's not our job, and really, we don't have any right to sit in judgment of someone. So yeah, what you do is also bad. There's no doubt about that.

It's interesting to think about what detectives like this must hear all the time. The deepest, darkest secrets criminals keep inside. And what are Stephen's shameful mumbling, he said then he got a knife and killed her. After the evening's festivities and the innocent teasing of his sister, he went to the kitchen and got a ten inch chef's knife from the butcher block and stabbed his little sister. While Jessica was trying to go to sleep, Stephen came into the room and randomly stabbed her right in the neck. When she tried to scream out? She tried to get away.

Step where you are. As his little sister struggled to get away from the assault, Steven stabbed her again, this time in the eye. How many times do you think you stabbed her twice? More about once in the eye Why would you stay over in the eye So why trying to pick up just a little bit, okay? It's hard to hear you. I'm trying to end it quickly.

I'm going to do the right thing to start. Okay. Why did you want to end it at all? I don't know why, first. I don't know why. She was dying. So you had to put your head up in the case. It's my hands. It's okay.

I have to try to let people know that I'm such a... I'm still fat. As she lay there slowly bleeding out from the wound to her neck, Steven tried to end her suffering with a thrust of the blade through her eye directly into the brain. He said he wanted to end it quickly because she was dying and scared, but that he didn't know why he first stabbed her to begin with. The attempt to end her life quickly was so forceful that the knife broke off the handle. This attempt, however, was entirely unsuccessful. The surprise stabbed the neck somehow missed her corroded artery and her esophagus. So she was bleeding a lot but not enough to die quickly and she could still talk. But she couldn't talk for long. When he tried to stab her in the brain through the eye, the only thing he succeeded in doing

was stabbing through her face and into her sinus cavity. As a result, she began bleeding into her sinus cavity and choking on her own blood. The rest of the blood from her gaping eye wound seeped into the surrounding tissue, causing her eye to bulge out from her head. He failed to penetrate the skull at all. That's a gross understatement. And after the surprise attack and the botched attempt to end it quickly, Jessica was still fighting for her life. Oh, but it gets worse.

When his mother went to wake up Jessica on New Year's Day and was transported to a waking hell, what she really saw when she opened the door was her daughter slaughtered in her bed. Internally frozen in a lake of her own blood, her throat was slashed and her eye was bulging from the socket. Immediately she knew her son had murdered his sister, but there was more that shocked her that day, because Jessica was found nude. At some point during Steven's assault, he stripped all her clothes off.

We're trying to have sex with her Steve. Obviously that's what it looks like to us when we're there because she just never pants on anymore and I'm sure it was pulled out. How did those get off of her? When did you remove them? After you stabbed your son. Okay. Did you try to wake her up before you stabbed her? Or did she sleep when you stabbed her? She was sleeping.

So we have to you stab her. It's when you attempt to stab sex with her or you already attempt to do it and then stab her while you were doing it. That's when we have to attempt to do it. Once I have, I'm going to stab her. I'm going to stab her at the end of the day. This sick fuck, surprise attack, his sister with a kitchen knife while she slept. Then he stripped her clothes off and tried to rape her.

Now you know why the other inmates in County lock up told him his days were numbered when he gets to prison. Being a murderer is one thing, but being an incestuous pedophile rapist murderer, well that's just not okay. Is there anything that happened last night that made you think that you wanted to have sex with you throughout the night? No, sir. Of course, there wasn't. She spent the whole night texting boys that weren't her brother.

While he was busy drinking Captain Morgan's and taking shots of Bailey's Irish cream, with a child. Do you think she was still alive on the exercise with her? I think she was there. Why do you think that? I think she was still alive. Oh, and the exercise was so much better. That ended here than I was putting.

I don't know, the exercise was so much better. Try the one more time I can't arrest him. I don't know her, precisely. But she died. What was she doing her thing at this time? Was she struggling with you? Or was she allowing a dad? She was dying, sir.

I'm sorry. She was dying, sir. She was dying. She was dying? Yes. Had you had already stabbed her? Yes. Okay. Did you already stand there? Yes. Okay. Did you ever think about getting help for you ever think about waking up your mind calling

911? Anything? No, I'm just saying. His sister was dying. The little girl he grew up with was dying, having never reached womanhood. He didn't stop. He didn't snap out of it and call for help. Rather, he decided to go one step further. We're able to get your penis inside of her.

Did you ejaculate on her? Yes, sir. I'm sorry? Yeah, I'm sorry. Where about? I don't know, and Harry, I'm fine. Do you believe you were under vagina at the time, or are you not sure? I'm not sure, sir.

Okay. No problem getting the right shot after that. Not sure, Stabler. I can not have the right direction after that. I can't deny having the right sensor. What's your right will eject a little bit, I don't know. While his sister was slowly bleeding to death, an obvious agonizing pain and fear, he decided to rape her with his floppy penis. He claimed he wasn't even sure he entered her because he couldn't get an erection.

This is apparently pretty common in sexual assaults, but it doesn't make them any less traumatic. It's more evil. It's the right way. I think we lied in place. The evil is the same. What made you do something that evil? Because you're not a bad guy. I don't know this. If you couldn't hear what he said, there's not a person on this planet that's more evil and stupid than me.

With the weight of the realization of just how wrong of an act he committed, he still couldn't understand why he did it. It's scaring the living crap out of us all, Stephen, and his poor mother had that image burned a new brain too. Imagine losing a child. It would be immensely painful. Now imagine finding your child murdered in a bandin, lying lifeless in a pool of her own blood. Now imagine that your other child is responsible. How do you think Stephen's mother felt? Do you think she blamed herself for never realizing what the kid was capable of? Did she damn herself for not raising him better?

Did she feel like a failure for not protecting Jessica? Or did she just blame the monster that she had raised. Stephen murdered his sister and then took off through the woods. He claimed he ran because he was scared shitless, but he can explain the detectives why he stabbed his sister and took the opportunity to try to rape her. When Jessica was at her most vulnerable, he stabbed her, and when she couldn't defend herself, he tried he stabbed her. And when she couldn't defend herself, he tried to penetrate her.

He wasn't sure he had, because he couldn't get an erection. But he was sure about one thing. He ejaculated. There was three or four little statuels on her backside, on her butt, like pokes. What was that all about? Would you figure nails? Yes, why you said all about I Will I do that?

So to check to see if she's dead or what. Of course you can't check vital organs through your butt cheeks. I don't think this was quick wit from Stephen. Instead it seems like he just was not that bright. The detectives were fed up with his mumbling, but they still needed to try and understand why. 13 years old sir. And you're 19 now? Yes sir. So when you were 13 you did? Yes sir. Was it in our course or just messing around? Okay. In the other times after that? Yeah. To be exact for the first time, sir. All right, but when you were 13, yes sir. Low and behold, we may have found a reason.

Years prior, when the two were at the cusp of puberty, Stephen was 13 and Jessica was 12. They had full-on intercourse, not once, but twice. The second time their father caught them in the act. Have you ever seen a doctor in your past up from sending mental problems that you made that? I see a doctor, I have a condition. What was that for? It was for, and I think I could some shame,

but why were you seeing a doctor for that? I was, but I was a, just see a therapist. For alcohol? Yes, an alcoholic. Any other doctor, so other than that? I've seen that there is stifter than I said it's... After one? After the incidence when I was 13 years old.

And your having sex with your sister? Yes, you see the therapist then? Yes, sir. So your mom was aware of that? At least that, sir. He had been to therapy, if you can call it that, twice in his life. One was court ordered for a charge of a minor in possession of alcohol. The other time was because he slept with a sister, but the counseling only lasted a

few weeks. That doesn't seem like nearly enough time to talk through sibling incest. Stephen had sex with a sister, but if your parents never talk about sex or how to deal with your emerging sexual urges, how do you even know when acting on them is wrong? I'm such normal brother sister stuff arguments like normal brother sister stuff. Would you agree with that? Yes. What do I tell them? What do I tell your mother why does have him? Stephen didn't know what to say.

Perhaps he didn't know what motivated him to do what he did. I mean, the loss of inhibitions from alcohol definitely played a part. the loss of inhibitions from alcohol definitely played a part, but if he acted on a deep dark urge left over from the trauma of accidentally doing something wrong, he may not have completely understood his own motivation. It's hard to believe Stephen's story. He stabbed her for absolutely no reason and then tried to have sex with her. It makes more sense the other way around. Stephen, were you trying to have sex with her and she told you no, so then you went out and got the knife and killed her?

You got here rejected you? No, sorry. So you just decide to kill your sister and then have sex with her afterwards. What? Yes sir. I don't know why it does. Well Steve you're the only one who does know why. I don't know why sir. That's a question of the guy. I was in that age just maybe wanted to With enough information to charge him, they began to lose hope that Steven would explain why. But they still had to make sure that there weren't any other victims. I'm not going to get up here. We're going to have to kill a new sister today. Did you go anywhere else and kill somebody? Yes. Is that his trophy?

Yes. If you ever had sex with anybody that did not want any sex with you, other than your sister. No, sorry. You're positive about that. Yes, sorry. There's no other time. It's gear really on the chest. It's good to really out in the chest.

It's good to really out in the open. Okay. You can do this, sir. He hated himself for killing his sister. He knew he couldn't undo anything. He couldn't turn back time. The only solace he had was to get forgiveness from his mother. But he understood if she couldn't do that. I'm not going to talk to you about it.

Stephen said, if you never want to see me again, it's understandable. The detective told him not to doubt a mother's love, but Stephen was being more realistic than hopeful. I can't even describe it to you that I hate myself. You think about hurting yourself? So aside to further notice. Say that again, not louder. So aside as well. So aside as for those people who want a current solution to currently problems. I'm currently in this particular problem,

it's more currently within most. And it's in my eyes, it is far more of a cowardice than what I find. If I don't do my time, I can't just I just agree with the end of the show's history for more. So you feel you actually have to do whatever time there is or it's degrading to your system if your sister if you killed yourself? Yes.

Okay. Weird. He seems more hung up on not killing himself out of respect for his sister than for the murder and rape that landed him in custody to begin with. Eventually, the detective had had enough of him and left him alone in the interview room. began to weep to himself. He went on the mumble to himself. I have to be the biggest piece of shit, his small Spanish. He held his head in his hands and began to pray through his sobs. He prayed for forgiveness from God and he prayed for his sister's spirit until they came to Can't find that much foam together like a brain.

Was that film? I'm not to await his day in court. Stephen was charged with first degree premeditated murder and first degree felony murder for the death of his sister. About a year later, he apologized to the court before his sentencing saying, he was sorry and haunted every day by what he did. Jessica's last words, why Stephen would stick in the minds of everyone in the courtroom? A question that could not be answered. His mother told the court that he ruined her life because she lost both of her children that day. All in one horrible act, Stephen took away her future

and threw away his own. I guess Stephen shouldn't expect forgiveness from her anytime soon. The judge shared her sentiment and sent Stephen to life in prison without the possibility of parole. Stephen wanted his mother's forgiveness. It's all he had left to want. He knew he would go to prison, and with the shame he felt, he didn't seem to mind at all. But he wished and prayed that his mother, with somehow, understand. After all,

a mother's love is unconditional, except in the face of pure, unadulterated evil, and evil and the destruction it causes. I guess forgiveness doesn't come hand in hand with unconditional love when you do something so heinous. Listen, I know it's 2022 and I'm probably way out of touch being the boomer that I am, but it goes without saying, I think, still, don't rape your fucking sister. Eat some protein, less soy in your diet, might help out. In any case, we'll see you next time. Thanks for joining us. And until then, you know the thing, stay safe. Hey Mike, I just finished episode 211 and you had this often call from a young lady that said her boyfriend is jealous and my fiance is very jealous because I will forsake everything just to live in to your show.

I love it. It is the best of all times. You're intelligent, funny, you're concise. Keep doing what you're doing. I'm a staff call. Thank you so much, Mike. Never stop. nd nd

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