Sword and Scale - Episode 227

Episode Date: October 31, 2022

Bad things can happen in good places. On January 31st, 2011, Johnny Clarke and his girlfriend, Lisa Straub, were house-sitting for Lisa’s parents in the affluent suburbs of Holland, Ohio. That night, authorities were called to the residence when Johnny’s concerned mother could not reach him, and after entering the home, the police found a bizarre and horrifying murder scene that was nothing like anything they had ever seen before.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Sort and scale contains adult themes and violence and is not intended for all audiences Listener discretion is advised You need to get the police out could wrong take her lane for my son is in the basement tied up with his house I just found through the window him and his girlfriend are tied up in the basement I'm through the window, him and his girlfriend are tied up in the basement. Happy Halloween. Hope you're having a good one. This is season nine episode 227 of Sword Scale, a show that reveals that the worst monsters are real. I can't believe we made it. That was two months of weekly episodes.

I am frankly quite exhausted. Tired of this murder crap already. Anyway, hope you enjoyed it. If you did consider signing up for plus, head on over to swordandscale.com slash plus for details and go get it. It's worth having such a really good, you know, it's a really good, you know, it's a really good, it's a really good, it's a really good, it's a really good, it's a really good, If you're a fan of this show, you've probably heard me tell you to stay safe several times. Since you're still listening, I'm assuming that you've managed to keep yourself out

of danger. But how safe are you, really? Many of us go out of our way in an attempt to ensure some level of safety in our lives. We might move to a town or city where the crime rate is low. We might lock our doors at night and try to avoid situations that could put us in danger. But not everyone makes those kind of choices. Some people choose a more high-risk lifestyle. Tapping to be the case in 2011 for a young man named Samuel Todd Williams.

I was living the street life. Yes, I was, I was engaging in criminal activity. I called myself a petty drug dealer. I wasn't this big time drug dealer where I made a lot of money, but I made a little bit of money enough money to survive enough money to take care of my family and my kids paid the bill. 24-year-old Sam Williams lived in Toledo, a port city on the northern edge of Ohio. As a petty heroin dealer in Pimp, Sam was known to police, and on September 22,

2011, his lifestyle had seemingly caught up with him. September 22, I woke up really late and I went outside, I was going to get in the car, and as soon as I crossed the street on Spring Grove, the unmarked cars, the US marshals and the detectives and the Toledo police department, pulled out their guns and laid me down to arrest me. After Sam was arrested, he was taken to the Lucas County Sheriff's Department for questioning. Do you want to talk to him? The only thing I want to know is what is it about? for questioning. She had much time to hang with people. What do you mean? You got a lot of friends? I know a lot of people.

OK. Although Sam had told police that he didn't want to talk, the detectives went ahead with their questions and began showing him photographs of a house. That house looked familiar to you at all. We have been to that house. No. We don't problem with that house last winter.

Did you hear anything about it? No. A couple of kids were found dead in there. My name is Robert and I'm a science. Before long it was revealed to Sam that he wasn't being questioned in regards to his drug dealings or as his role as a Pimp. Instead Sam was being questioned about a double homicide. The events that led police to question Sam about this very serious crime are fairly complex,

and there was a large cast of characters involved. So to get the best possible understanding of this case, we decided to reach out to someone that has studied and covered it extensively. My name is Brian Dugger. I'm the lead investigator for WTOL channel 11. I think I really began looking into this case back in the winter of 2020. So we're coming up on the 10-year anniversary of this case. So this is just one of those cases I I just kind of sticks in your head,

like if you're in a community for any length of time, which I have been, I've been in Toledo since 1998. There's always a couple cases stick with you. And this is certainly one of those cases. As a lead investigator for WTO channel 11, Brian Dugger has spent countless hours digging through court documents, police reports, and phone records associated with Sam's case. He's also interviewed investigators, lawyers, witnesses, and many major players involved,

including Sam Williams himself. In 2021, Brian also produced an Emmy winning short form documentary series about the case. Now, even though Sam Williams lived in the city of Toledo, the specific crime that he was questioned about didn't actually take place there. Instead, the crime had occurred in Holland, Ohio, which is one of Toledo's affluent suburbs. The neighborhood where this took place, it was just one of those neighborhoods, you know, where you people feel safe walking their dogs late at night. They feel safe letting their children go down the street to play at a friend's house

and come home after dark. There really was no reason to be afraid. It's just one of those really nice neighborhoods where anybody would be, you know, happy to raise their family. On January 31, 2011, about eight months before Sam Williams was arrested, 21-year-old Johnny Clark and his girlfriend, 20-year-old Lisa Straub, were at Lisa's parents upper-class home in Holland, Ohio. Two days earlier, Lisa's parents had left for a cruise to celebrate their 25th wedding anniversary.

And Johnny and Lisa were staying at home by themselves. And Johnny had been staying with Lisa for the past few weeks. The kids were back and forth between my house and Lisa's house. They would stay at my house a week or two. They would go to Lisa's house a week or two. They were always back and forth. And since the parents had the crew's plan to go out of town, the kids were going to be out their house sitting.

Johnny Clark and Lisa Straub had been dating on and off for a few years. And like many young couples, their relationship had seen more than a few rough patches. They're relationship over the years had kind of been, and I guess you call it tumultuous. I mean, there were times he got along really well, and there were times that they would have very serious fights. And in fact, a friend of Lisa told me that Lisa was in the process of leaving Johnny.

Johnny and Lisa both come from good families with successful caring and loving parents. They were young, smart, attractive. And for the most part, extremely well-liked by a lot of people. Lisa was, you know, in high school kind of a, I think she played volleyball, she was athletic, she was a sweetheart, I mean, people liked to talk to her. She was pretty and a very popular girl. Lisa was an extremely loyal friend to me.

She was the most genuine person I feel like I've ever met in my life. She was funny, loving, very down to earth. She was just, you know, very likable, very friendly, just so easy to get along with. Uh, Johnny was, he was a big guy. He was in a weightlifting. His goal was to go to barber school. His friend said that nobody could cut their hair like Johnny could. He was also a very popular guy.

It was one of the most big-hearted people you would ever meet. I said, you're hair on Johnny, there was guarantee to be a smile on your face. Johnny and Lisa had a lot of friends, mainly because they were just overall good decent people. But they did have a few demons. At some point, both of them had developed a drug habit. There's no doubt that they were involved in drugs. I mean, their friends that we talked to said that it was not uncommon for them to get together and do pills. I mean, Johnny was 21, Lisa was 20. I mean, these were young, popular kids who,

in many ways, were still trying to find their life in direction. On the night that Johnny and Lisa were house sitting, their plan was to leave the home, pick up two friends, return home, and take some pills. Basically, with Lisa's parents out of town, they were planning to have a small party. One of the people Johnny and Lisa planned a party with that night was their 26-year-old friend,

Tiffany. At about 10.30 pm that night, Tiffany called Johnny to confirm their plans and Johnny answered, but he never said hello. Instead Tiffany only heard a brief altercation before Johnny abruptly hung up on her. Like as soon as he picked it up, he didn't say hello to me but he was like, bro what are you doing? Then, then... Alright, let him give me his voice. Was it, bro what are you doing? Bro what are you doing?

Yeah, just like that. Was he sound pissed? Yeah. Did he sound scared? No. Alright then what do you doing? Just like that. Did he sound pissed? Did he sound scared? No. Alright, then what he said? Then the next thing he said was, who the hell are you?

And then that's when I heard the other person in the back room. But I couldn't hear what he was saying. You sure was a guy? Positive, he was a guy. How did he end the conversation with you? Tiff, I'm going to call you back. You just hanged Zace, he'll call you back. Which means he probably knows who's in the house. conversation with you. After Johnny hung up, Tiffany waited for him to call back.

But he never did. She eventually tried calling both him and Lisa, but neither one of them would answer. Then Tiffany began calling some of their other friends to see if anyone could get a hold of them. But again, she didn't have any luck. Finally, Tiffany decided to just drive over to their house. By the time she arrived, about two hours had gone by since her brief phone call with Johnny. Tiffany stood at the front door and knocked several times. She saw that many of their interior

lights were on, but nobody ever came to the door. Eventually, news of what happened reached Johnny's mother, my take it speeding out of my chest. I just got a call from one of my son's friends. Okay. This girl says she was on the phone with my son and his girlfriend and he was supposed to go take her off. He was telling her he was going out the door and all she heard was the phone drop and heard my son saying in the bread ground, who are you?

What are you doing here? And she said she just drove by the house and the house looks rampacked. All the lights are on my son born child and it showed. Almost to a fault, she was always looking out for Johnny, and always needed to know what her son was doing, and that he was safe. When you think about my day, she was somebody who was very, very, very involved in her son's life. She would call him constantly.

She would keep up on who his friends were. I mean, she had missed that. She was just kind of this overbearing mom because he would just get so tired of his mom calling him all the time. But he would never, he would never dare not to enter a phone call from his mom. My day knew that something was wrong because she frantically tried to call his phone call from his mom, I might say knew that something was wrong

because she'd frantically tried to call his phone several times and he didn't answer. After my take called 911, police deputies arrived on the scene and essentially saw the same thing that Johnny's friend Tiffany had seen. You know, deputies came out to the house, looked around, didn't find anything that they considered to be probable cause to enter

the home, so they left. Naturally, Johnny's extremely concerned mother wasn't at all satisfied with that. I'm going to have a listen, ma'am. Four car cars were already out at this residence. They're not there and car cars in the driveway. I want to know where my son's at. I want to know where my son and his girlfriend are. I want to know if they got abducted by whoever tried to stop them and rob them. And it's pretty funny that this girl named Tiffany, which is there right now by the residents,

waits two hours to call somebody and report this. Well, like I said, we were out there, there was nothing going on there. Okay, where is my husband and his girlfriend and her curse in the driveway? How would I know that, ma'am? I need to report my son missing. Eventually, my Tay made her way out to the house, and for whatever reason, she became extremely suspicious of Tiffany, who was also still there.

I have a feeling you set up my son. My son is missing. He's nowhere to be found. You want to tell the police what you just got done telling me in the home? I will. Hello. What's going on?

Yeah, now his mom's arguing with me. I said, I'm off. You know, they're my friends and I'm worried about them and I don't have, you know, I'm worried about my friends because they were supposed to come peaking me up and they never showed up. Once again, deputies arrived on the scene and once again, they found nothing and decided to leave, but not before giving Johnny's parents some advice. As the deputies were leaving, I wanted them to pull to my side and said,

you know, look, I'm a father. I can't tell you that you should go into the house, but I can tell you that as a father, that I would probably be getting inside that house. So we're going to leave now, and you come back and you do what you need to do. After the deputies left for the second time, Johnny's parents and Tiffany continued searching outside the home. Eventually, they were able to look inside a side window

that nobody had yet looked through. And what they saw was terrifying. see the people him and it's growing our tide up in the basement. Okay, all right, we'll get them out there. Get the fuck out here. I told them. I'm going to eat you calm down. We'll get them out there. But you know what? Get me in the car. They're unconscious. Damn. Okay, do you say they're unconscious? Yes. Okay. All right. We're cell phones on their bodies. They're closed. We're's the... She only has pants on! Oh, the pants are tied! Okay, all right, we're getting out there, ma'am. Oh my gosh!

Shortly after Mite placed this third call to police, Johnny and Lisa's friend Tiffany, also called 911. Oh my god, we just called the police here. I'm a hunkaker. Yes, but we need a rescue colleague, you've got to put the order in the head. That's right. We're going to see you through the window, please. We've got the hunter way already, okay?

Yes, sir. I'm sorry. I'm very sad. I'm going to treat you to the other way. Oh, yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay.

Meanwhile, as my T. Antiphany pleaded for help, Johnny's father erased to the front of the house. After several nine-one calls and two visits from police, someone finally took matters into their own hands and broke into the house. But sadly, it was too late. And what Johnny's father found inside the home was nothing short of a parent's worst nightmare. On January 31, 2011, 21-year-old Johnny Clark and his girlfriend, 20-year-old Lisa Straub, were house-sitting for Lisa's parents. That night, they had made plans to party with their friend Tiffany.

But when Tiffany went to their house, nobody answered the door. Eventually, Johnny's parents and the police made their way to the home, but they didn't find anything, at least not right away. After the police left, Tiffany was able to peer through a window that had been previously overlooked. And she saw Johnny and Lisa seemingly unconscious, lying on the floor in the home. Then Johnny's dad kicked open the front door to gain entry. And when he kicked in the front door, he went in and what he saw, he saw Lisa first.

She had a bag overhead, started ripping the bag. He saw the other blood coming from the side of her mouth. Her hair was mad, it was blood. There seemed to be some sort of damage to her face, but her body was cold. I found them and I ripped off the bag off my son's head. You burned them tight up, burned with bags around their head. You know, he told me I just went to the front door, ran outside and I lost my mind. And he encountered my day, she was running toward the house. He may have told her that, you know, Johnny's gone or something, and my day

collapsed. She never saw the inside of the house. Just collapsed and passed out. Johnny's dad found his son, and Lisa Stroud, dead on the floor of the kitchen, which my day had previously confused for the basement when she called police. Johnny and Lisa had plastic bags over their heads, which were held firmly in place with tape that had been wrapped tightly around their necks. Their hands were duct tape behind their their backs. Johnny's feet were duct tape, you know, they had bags over the head.

I mean, there was blood. I mean, it was obvious that they'd been tortured to some degree. And nobody deserves to die this way. You're going to tie somebody up and put bags over your head and tape around. You're just going to shoot them and leave them alone. They made them suffer. According to the coroner, Johnny and Lisa died by either exfixiation from not being able to breathe through the bags

or by strangulation from the tape being wrapped around their necks. They're killed brutally. I mean, there's no doubt about that. It was such an unusual mode of murder and just something you just don't see. I can only imagine what it would be like to have a back place over your face and just struggling to breathe. When the police arrived on the scene for the third time, one of the first things they noticed was that Johnny and Lisa's body had seemingly been dragged into the kitchen. and Lisa's body had seemingly been dragged into the kitchen. When they were found, I mean, their clothes were really riding up on them in some ways.

And the pants were kind of pulled down a little bit. You know, imagine if you had a buddy, laying on the ground and you were just kind of pulling them across the ground. So what would happen? They're sure my ride up and maybe you pull down their sweatpants a little bit. So the way they were situated, it seemed like they they possibly were dragged to that location and kind of staged in some way.

When the police processed the rest of the home, they found that the garage door entrance had been damaged, which suggested that this was how the culprit or culprits got into the house. They also found that certain bedrooms in the home had been ransacked. All the clothing, everything in the dressers were dumped out. In the one bedroom, there was a kind of a crawl space. Obviously, someone had been digging into the wall. So it looked like someone was looking for something very specific.

It also looked like they were getting very frustrated because everything in those bedrooms was overturned. Given the state of the house, it was obvious that the killer or killers had tried to find something. Whether or not they had found whatever that something was, the police didn't know until they finally made contact with Lisa's parents, who at the time were a way on vacation celebrating their 25th anniversary. Imagine being on vacation and getting a phone call like that from the police.

I would say that probably the suspects knew that they were going to be gone based on information they got from friends of the victims. And they came there specifically because they thought that no one was there. And maybe they were surprised that the young man and the young lady were there at the time, but I would be very surprised if the suspects weren't known in some way to the victim. After Lisa's parents were made aware of what had happened, they returned home, met with police and walked through the house to see what, if anything, had been stolen.

It walked through the home with the sheriff deputies and the FBI and basically what was missing was two twenty dollar bills out of a change jar. So this whole ordeal, whoever did this, got $40 out of this. Whatever the killer or killers were searching for, they didn't find it. And only walked away with 40 bucks. During their investigation, one of the people that police questioned was Johnny's friend Tiffany,

who was on the scene when the bodies were found. Much like Johnny's mom, the police wondered if Tiffany and her boyfriend had set Johnny up. Yeah, the time of the murder, Tiffany Williams was a friend of Johnny Alisa. She was dating Zach Bercat. You know, at this point, Tiffany and Zach, they hadn't really known. Johnny Alisa that long, but their bond was over pills and the pursuit of pills. Tiffany and her boyfriend were fairly new friends to Johnny and Lisa, and the forceum wasn't particularly close, but they did share a common interest in using drugs. Also, a few days before the murders, Johnny had given Tiffany and her boyfriend

a tour of the Straub family home. You know, some people have said that during that tour of the house that Johnny bragged about there being money inside the house that Mr. Straub had a safe filled with, you know, about a hundred thousand000. For some, the belief was that Johnny told Tiffany about a safe full of money in the house, and that Tiffany decided to hire some guys to help her steal it. But according to Tiffany, she didn't know anything about a safe.

Did you ever hear Johnny talk about a safe in that house? Never. Once her Johnny talked about a safe house. house? Never. Once, her Johnny talk about a safe house. Never. The only thing that Johnny ever begged about was, at least his family had money. While still keeping an eye on Tiffany and her boyfriend as potential suspects, the police also began looking at another friend of Johnny's. 21-year-old Alexandra Cusino.

Or first of all, how long have you known Johnny? Well, I have known all of them since I was a child. How did you meet? Mutual friends. So you guys started hanging. Was this a physical relationship or you guys over dating or sleeping with one another? We slept with each other once. You did?

Is this why they were seeing Lisa? No, no, no, no. They had broke up for a while. Okay. So, okay, after Johnny and had broke up for a while. Okay, so okay after Johnny and Lisa broke up you guys sleep together did you still see Johnny every so often at it? We just like interact like bumping each other like how it went about. Alex Kuzano had been a friend of Johnny for some time. So again another person that you know drugs seem to always kind of follow her around and trouble always seem to follow her around

well i'll tell you what i've read some reports about you i'll let you have man on the what are you doing with an a-k-47 assault it wasn't mine got you a terrorist you're not even big enough strong enough to hold one of those it wasn't mine that's why and the thing about Alex, she was this very pretty girl. I mean, she had this very interesting ethnic, ethnic blend, which just, she was very beautiful and she knew that. And, you know, people I talked to said that she would use it to her advantage. She would use sex to her advantage. As an especially attractive young woman, Alex Kuzano was reportedly a real life femme fatale. Ready to snare any man, if it meant she could get her way. And she was also no stranger to police.

Alex's criminal record included charges for DUI, assault, and armed robbery. But that wasn't the reason why the police questioned her about Johnny and Lisa. Instead, it was because Alex and Johnny had gotten into a heated argument a few weeks before the murders. Johnny came over the one night. We go to go to IHOP. Somehow we just get to talking. He was like, if you want to buy this car you can and I was like oh really basically

Yeah, I felt like he was put me in a corner because he kept Banking me to buy the car from my key really need the money. Well, I had a fifty nine But I didn't want to give him all my money. So I tell him I give you half where did you get that kind of buddy? Where'd you get 1500 dollars just from like you from like, you know, holidays and stuff. No. But um. No. I don't know, just for around.

So, at the time, we got back to Zack's house, we reached an agreement I give him half of $1,750. So you give Johnny the $750, right then? Yeah, they do. Do you take the car right then? Yeah. How Johnny can get home? I drive him off.

At home? Yeah, but as get home. Johnny, mom. At home? Yeah, but as mother's house. And then you immediately got a phone call from mom? Yes. After Johnny impulsively sold his car to Alex, Johnny's mom was livid. But other than calling Alex to yell at her, there was little else she could do. After all, Johnny was an adult.

It was his car and he could do whatever he wanted with it. So, did you never got a transfer to your car? No, never got a switch over. Because I was in a way until I finished paying him. All right, so you didn't pay him because the car, the tire fell off. Did you hit something? No. Did you hit a car right up? No, I didn't hit anything. How long after you hit something? No. Did you? No. You hit a convo, didn't you hit a guard right up?

No, I didn't hit anything. How long after you bought the car to the wheel fall off? Like a week or a half. Me and Johnny actually got into an argument over the car around this period of time. Sure. Because he wanted the rest of the money for the car. And I told him, well, it's broke.

If this was a preexisting problem, I said it's kind of bull crap. When Alex refused to pay the rest of the money, Johnny's dad towed the car back to Johnny's house. Johnny's family now had the car with a broken wheel, and Alex Kusano was out $750. Then a couple weeks before the murder, there was a phone call, which Alex admitted in court,

in which Alex said, you know, she wanted her $750 back. And it was a very violent phone call. As far as there was a lot of yelling and screaming and Johnny's mom told me that after Johnny got off that phone call, he came into the room where she was and that he was like ghostly white and said, Mom, Alex just told me if I don't give her the money back that she's going to send guys over to kill me.

Alex admitted that she and Johnny had an intense argument over the phone about the car, but she denied that she ever threatened his life. You never threatened Johnny? No. I want my fucking 750 back. No, I told my wife my money back because he's giving it to me. denied that she ever threatened his life. As far as motives go, Alex certainly seemed to have one. Granted, killing two people over $750 is pretty extreme. But it was still a possible motive. And Alex also gave the police another very good reason to suspect her. After the killing, Alex was involved in a relationship and a guy she was involved with was also involved with another woman and Alex found out about it and she sent her a text message

and the text message was very threatening. You do not know shit about me. I do this shit. Watch the news, bitch. Motherfuckers get duct taped and tied up and left for dead. And she incendiated that she was involved. And of course a trial, she said, you know, she was just trying to act tough. And she didn't really mean that. Despite Alex's possible motive and the threatening text message where she outright admitted responsibility for the murders, Alex was not arrested.

Instead the detectives turned to DNA evidence, which had been found on the duct tape used to tie up Johnny and Lisa as well as on Johnny's sweatpants. What was interesting about the DNA is that there were a lot of players involved in this case and I think there were probably two to three dozen people who actually provided DNA samples because again Johnny and Lisa knew a lot of people and there were a lot of people who's DNA was taken. And when they put that DNA from the duct tape and the sweatpants, it came back as it didn't hit on anybody. While the DNA found on Johnny and Lisa turned up no results, there was one piece of evidence at the crime scene that seemingly

broke the case wide open. You know, as please continue to scour the house, at some point, what they found, they found a cigarette that was kind of in a corner of the kitchen kind of leading into the garage area. The cigarette hadn't been, you know, stomped on. It wasn't pinched. There wasn't any ash lying around it.

It was just a, it had been smoked. I mean, you could tell it had been smoked, but it was a cigarette, though, just kind of placed perfectly in that corner near the garage. You know, they took it back to the lab, they tested it, and it turned up a hit. and interestingly, it turned up a hit for two different men who were in CODIS. CODIS is a national DNA database created and maintained by the FBI. And when the two DNA profiles taken from the cigarette were entered into the database, it identified two men, one of them being 24-year-old Sam Williams. Yes, Sam Williams at the time of the murder was kind of like a, you know, a street

punk. He was so drugs. He was a violent guy, you know, just weeks before the murder he had busted into, you know, a previous girlfriend's house and kind of threatened her. So, I mean, he was a guy that wasn't afraid to, you know, previous girlfriends, house, and kind of threat into her. So, I mean, he was a guy that wasn't afraid to, you know, beat somebody up. He was a known pimp. You know, his girlfriend at the time, he pimped her out. He just ran the street, gone drugs at a prostitution business,

and he was known to be violent. The other DNA profile found on the cigarette belonged to one of Sam's closest friends. 21-year-old cameo Pettaway. Yeah cameo Pettaway was, he would call Sam Williams his brother, you know, many people thought that I mean, cameo was known to police. You know, at some point in his life, he had been accused of shooting somebody. He was also known as a violent guy.

After the DNA identified Sam and cameo, they were both arrested, after which cameo was quick to shut down any police interrogation. But Sam did have a brief conversation with detectives. – Items in that scene came back with your DNA. How can we explain that? – I know.

– You've never been to that house. You don't know those kids. – I know, no, no, no people. – And your DNA's in that house. You have no idea? – No. – Do you understand where that puts you? Do you understand where this is going? And your DNAs in that house. You have no idea? No. Do you understand where that puts you?

Do you understand where this is going? Where it was going and where it ultimately ended up was that Sam Williams and cameo pedaway were both charged with the murders of Johnny Clark and Lisa Straub. Samuel Williams was arrested this evening. He has been charged with two counts of murder, two counts of aggravated burglary and one count of domestic violence. Tonight Clark's family is facing a wave of emotion. John's mother describes her phone conversation

with detectives. And I said, oh God, he's telling me you made an arrest. He's like, I got him. Justice, it's been a long haul, but I got him. This is about Johnny and Lisa. He didn't fail them. He told me he wasn't gonna stop to he caught them. Sam and cameo were arrested.

The police were satisfied that they found the killers and Johnny's family felt a sigh of relief. But that satisfaction and relief didn't last long. Even though the police had the two men in jail that were known to be violent, known to engage in criminal activity, and their DNA was found at the scene of the murders, the evidence against them wasn't nearly as clear cut as it appeared to be. In January of 2011, the lives of 21-year-old Johnny Clark and 20-year-old Lisa Straub were cut short. When someone, or more than likely several people, broke into Lisa's parents' home and murdered

Johnny and Lisa by taping plastic bags over their heads. When police investigated the crime scene, they recovered a cigarette that had two male DNA profiles on it, which belonged to known criminals, Samuel Williams and his good friend cameo Pettaway. Both Sam and cameo were arrested and charged with the murders, to which they both pleaded not guilty and took their respective cases to trial. The two trials were held simultaneously in the same courthouse, and witnesses going back and forth between courtrooms.

Cameo's trial was the first to reach a conclusion, and this conclusion wasn't at all what Johnny and Lisa's family were hoping for. They only had cameos DNA and the cigarette. They really had nothing else tying him to the murder. And at some point, after the judge had heard a lot of the evidence, he said, look, anybody could have planted that cigarette there. You know, prosecutors, you're not showing me anything to prove that cameo pedaway was in that house. He could have been just smoking a cigarette with Sam Williams earlier in the day.

And Sam took the cigarette and dropped it at the scene. I've had to make two really tough decisions in this case, earlier in the day and Sam took the cigarette and dropped it at the scene. I had to make two really tough decisions in this case, which I had never had to make before. Two young lives were taken for no apparent reason, but the question still remains, at least in this case, as who took those two people's lives. Camille's jury never got a chance to render a verdict. Instead, the judge threw the case out because the prosecution simply didn't have enough evidence.

Other than the cigarette, which could have made its way into the straw-home in a number of ways. Sam Williams' trial, however, played out much differently. Yeah, Sam Williams' trial was a little played out much differently. Yeah, Sam Williams' trial looked different than Camille Pettaway, so yeah, the prosecutors had their DNA on the same cigarette at the crime scene, but again, Sam Williams, they also had what seemed like really incriminating jailhouse phone calls.

When Sam was in jail awaiting trial, he called cameos older brother and said the following. That was supposed to be me and you, but your little bro had to step up and take your spot man. He didn't do it right, but he did it good enough to make something happen. In prosecutors, of course, seized on that and said, well this is Sam saying that, you know, Stephen was supposed to be with him for the murder, but instead he had to take cameo, and cameo screwed up by leaving the cigarette at the scene, but, you know, he did a good enough job.

In addition to this jailhouse phone call, The prosecution also presented testimony from a man named Eric Yingling, who had been incarcerated with Sam before the trial and claimed that Sam had confessed. What Yingling said that Sam told him is that, yeah, he was the one who had killed these people that he'd gone there looking for money. You know, he told me that he can get Sam to shut up. After being presented with the DNA evidence, the jailhouse phone call,

and the testimony of Eric Yingling, Sam's jury rendered a verdict. The jury found Williams guilty of two counts of aggravated murder, two counts of kidnapping, and one count of aggravated burglary. After the jury returned their verdict, the judge threw the book at Sam. He was sentenced to two life terms without the possibility of parole. And if you talk to the investigators that put Sam in prison, they will tell you that justice was served. The case that was made, the evidence that was collected, and speaks for itself. The investigators had to put forward a confident position. I mean, what else are they going to do?

But the truth is, it's not that simple. First of all, the jailhouse phone call that was played for Sam's jury at trial was taken out of context. And while it's possible that he was referring to the murders of Johnny and Lisa, it's also possible, and perhaps more than likely, that Sam was referring to an entirely different crime. He did make money, he was spending it on the wrong things in my eyes. Then there was the testimony of Eric Yingling, who told the jury that Sam admitted to the murder as well he was in jail. I think when he initially went to the prosecutors, they were kind of like, yeah, whatever, Eric,

I mean, you're always telling us a story, you know, we really don't believe you. And then he just kind of all pandally mentioned that, yeah. And Sam said the only money that they found was this sedan who's saying money that we can do anything with. And he sat in all of a sudden the air in the room just completely changed. And the police and prosecutors started looking at each other. And, you know, they kind of ushered him out of the room

and later the attorney came to him and they said, yeah, that Iraqi denars that were found in the house, police said nobody knew that information. So the fact that you said Sam told you about that was information that nobody could have known except for you. Eric Yingling was a known jailhouse snitch that had made several attempts to reduce his prison sentence by providing information to prosecutors. Initially, prosecutors didn't believe Eric when he came forward with information about

Sam Williams. That is, until he mentioned that some Iraqi currency was left behind at the crime scene. According to police, nobody but the killers could have known that the Straub family had Iraqi currency in their home, because that information was never released to the public. And this made Eric's story seem credible. The only problem with that is that anyone could have known about the foreign money because it was reported on CNN shortly after the murder has happened. With the release of the search warrant affidavits, what else was collected at the home? They see the number of items. Some other things included security documents, some foreign currency. Like David said, currency, Iraqi currency, as well as currency from other countries.

So when the police said that nobody could have known this information, and in fact the lead detective in the case said on the stand, he was asked, did anybody know this information? And he said no, they did not. But again, that wasn't true because the information was on CNN. You know, Eric, you know, admitted during trial that, look, he was looking for a deal that he had his wife on the internet constantly following, you know, elements of the case and that she was doing research on the case and feeding him information. We don't know if police simply didn't know that this information had been broadcast

on CNN or if they lied about it, but it has to be one of the two. They were either being deceptive or ignorant, which either way isn't a good look for authorities that were supposed to be seeking justice for two 20 year old kids that were supposed to be seeking justice for two 20-year-old kids that were brutally murdered. Naturally, if you ask Sam Williams, he denies that he ever confessed anything to Eric Yingling. He did try to engage in conversation with me, so for me to say that he didn't would be me lying. However, I did not have not one single conversation with him about anything. Now, before we go any further,

it's important to clarify that we're not saying at all that Sam Williams is innocent. And neither is our guest, Brian Dugger. Still, there is no denying that aside from the DNA, the evidence against Sam Williams was pretty flimsy. There is certainly room for reasonable doubt in this case. And as far as the night of the murders, Sam actually has a pretty solid alibi. I know that I was at the bottom line bar with a few other people, which one was Destiny Madrid. 21 year old Destiny Madrid was Sam's friend,

and for lack of a better word is fuck buddy. And according to her, she and Sam Williams met up at a bar in Toledo on the night of the murders. He was with me that night. All right, what if I cleared up for you? What if I tell you that you're not on the video with the bottom line on that night?

What do you mean? The bottom line has video. Right. When Destiny came to the police and told them that she was with Sam that night, they attempted to get her to admit otherwise, by telling her that they had surveillance footage from the bar. But that was an outright lie. Police didn't have any footage from the bar. In a move that was even more reprehensible, the police later arrested Destiny for lying to them about the case. She sat in jail for six months, but was never indicted, and her charges were eventually just dropped. She's still waiting for an apology. Also, destiny isn't the only person who claimed to have been with Sam on the night of the murders.

His cousin Eddie Flores also claims that he was at the bar with Sam that night. Yeah, the time of the murder, Sam Williams claimed that he was with Destiny Madrid, Eddie Flores, who I believe was his cousin. Eddie actually did agree to be interviewed by me. And he said, yeah, absolutely no doubt Sam was with me. And this is a dude who has a good background. He's a hard working guy, a family guy. He's got a good job. He's got no sort of record. And he was very honest with me on the phone. He said, look, you know, a Sam did this? You know, he could burn in hell. I'm not going to defend him, but I can tell you that Sam was there. He was there with me that night. Do I believe that Eddie Flora's would go along with Sam to create an alibi?

No, I do not believe that. Not only does Sam have multiple credible people vouching for his whereabouts on the night of the murders, but his cell phone records also indicate that Sam wasn't anywhere near the Straub home that night. There was a phone call from Sam phone at 1027 to Destiny Madrid, and it pinged off the east side of Toledo. And Sam told me the phone call was to say, Hey, Destiny, where are you? We're all at the bar. We're waiting on you.

And Destiny was walking from her grandmother's house to the bar, she told me. So, where that phone panged, it was roughly about 30 minutes. It would take you at least, at least 30 minutes if you had no sort of traffic or gas stop by a bunch of lights to get from where that phone ping to where the murder actually happened. Like I said, this was a 1027. We know that people busted in on Johnny at 1041. Well, we don't know for certain where Sam was on the night of the murders. We do know that his cell phone pinged at least 30 minutes away from the crime scene about 10 minutes before someone broke into the home where Johnny and Lisa were staying. Unfortunately, a lot of this information wasn't pieced together until after Sam's trial,

and Sam remains in prison to this day. But given that we now have this information, you might be asking why hasn't Sam been released, or at least given a new trial. It's really interesting what the evidence that Sam has presented to me. And I have all his phone records so I can verify a lot of what he said you know after him brothers forward I mean there's certainly a lot of people who reached out to me and said you know why a Sam Williams still in prison. Well I think if you ask the detectives I mean their belief is that Sam

Williams gave his phone to somebody else to establish an alibi. Interesting how that works, huh? If your cell phone pings at a crime scene, the police can use it against you. But if it pings somewhere else, they can just call it a false alibi. When I was arrested, Detective Kozak told me,

and I quote, he said that, I will make you look like a monster. His goal wasn't to seek truth. It was to get a conviction. There was so big of a spotlight on this case that it didn't matter how it had to be done. From that point on, the goal wasn't to seek justice for Johnny Alisa.

It was just to convict Samuel Williams. I did not do this. I had no involvement in this case at all I pray that the truth is told one day that Lisa and Johnny's killers will be put behind bars where they deserve to be Since his arrest and conviction Samuel Williams has maintained his innocence But one hurdle that he and his defense team still can't overcome is But one hurdle that he and his defense team still can't overcome is explaining why his DNA was found on a cigarette at the crime scene inside a house where two kids were killed, and

that he claims he's never been to. Sam admits that it wasn't uncommon for him and cameo pedo a to share a cigarette, but he has no idea how one of them ended up in the Straub home. I have no explanation. I know I did not place that there, from the picture that I have seen, and from the information that I heard in my trial, that cigarette butt did not leave any marks on the floor, that cigarette butt was placed by that door so investigators can find it. I know that to be true. There's other evidence that was

in that house that wasn't tested. There's unknown male DNA on the victim's bodies. When investigators processed the crime scene, they recovered several items with DNA on them. But Sam's DNA was only found on the cigarette. No other evidence collected at the scene matches Williams DNA or fingerprints. In fact, the defense highlighted a DNA profile which became known as unknown female number one by several of the BCI forensic scientists, which was found on Johnny Clark's sweatpants and sweatshirt. Analysts said DNA from the same unknown female number one was also found on the duct tape

on the ankles of Johnny Clark. Along with the unidentified DNA, there is yet another mysterious wrinkle in this case. When the police were investigating, they interviewed many of Johnny's friends, and one of those friends was 22-year-old Anthony Watson. Do you have a feeling about who might have done this? The person I thought had done it. I already passed nine tickets, so people talk, you know? I know people talk, so people, I think you're lying to me right now, Anthony.

I think you have a feeling of who might have done this, and the reason you have that feeling is because, do you know something? I know nothing. Everything, everything, I told everybody, I'm not no snitch, but if I know who did, then I'm telling period. During his initial police interview, Anthony denied having any information about the case. But a few months later, he came forward with a completely different story. Yeah, Anthony Watson was another one of these guys. Later on, he was the one person who told police that a woman who had come forward and told him exactly what happened.

And the woman that he told police who had told that story to him was Alexandra Kuzno. Alexandra Kusino, a young woman that allegedly threatened Johnny's life and admitted responsibility for the murders in a threatening text message, was the only link between Sam Williams and Johnny Clark. As far as anyone can tell, she is the only person that knew both of them. According to Anthony Watson, Alex confessed to him that she, Sam Williams, and two other people went to Lisa's house to confront Johnny about the money Johnny owed her. And when they did, it all went bad. Anthony Watson told police that Alex told him that, you know, I set that up. I was like, it's nothing, I'm just a soldier of heart, right? She said, oh man, I f***ed up and I had to do the, just don't know how to do anything.

And as she went over there with another woman, her guy Sam, in some dude named Dro, and they pushed her way into the house. From what it was, she told me that it messed up, you know. Who was messed up? Max. Oh, Max, yeah. Oh, they pushed the neck inside, they brought them back inside,

and that's what it all went back to. And, you know, Johnny started mouthing off. And I mean, she said at some point, Lisa had run upstairs and locked herself in the bedroom, but Sam kind of ran up the stairs and pushed his way in. That the intention wasn't to kill them, but that's what ultimately ended up happening. So I don't know what it was they used that much, but it sounded to me like as she said, it was Kate. What she said, we've been facing two care rooms.

But the other interesting thing is that despite what he said, Alexander Kuzano was never named as a suspect. She was never arrested. Naturally, both Sam Williams and Alex Kuzano have denied the story that Anthony Watson told police. And Alex claimed that she had long since cut her losses over the money that Johnny supposedly owed her. Was the car issue over then? Yeah, the way I look at you. Were you still pissed at John? Did you still want your 750 back? he supposedly owed her. If you do know something, I don't want this in my life, but I don't need it. To her credit, Alex voluntarily provided a DNA sample to police, and it didn't match

any of the DNA found at the crime scene. Unfortunately, we can't follow up with Anthony Watson about the story he told the police, because he was also murdered. In 2018, he was outside his condo and in an unknown gunman, I believe he was put it, walked up to him and shot him. He actually crawled back into the house and you know he called his mom and said you know mom had been shot. I'm dying and I think he actually died on the phone with his mom, but he did not identify the shooter and to the date. I mean, there's still an open homicide and we don't know what happened,

but like I said, he told police that Alex Kusano said it all up. Could it be that this young woman, Alexandra Kusano, not only arranged the murders of Johnny Clark and Lisa Straub, but that she also had Anthony Watson killed when he started talking. According to Brian Dugger, it's not very likely. I think when you look at somebody who had a lot of motive in this case, Alexandra Kuzano is definitely one of those people who would have had motive. And you know the fact that she had sent that text message to another woman threatening essentially the same thing that happened to Johnny and Lisa. You know, I think at one point that I certainly believe that she may have had something involved, but I just, I think that's too easy of a solution,

and I know she talks big, trouble usually follows her around, but honestly, at this point, I have a hard time believing. I actually don't believe that she was involved. To this day, a lot of questions remain unanswered about this case. But there are a few things we can say with almost complete certainty. It's pretty clear that more than one person was involved in this crime, and Johnny probably knew the killers, or at least knew of them. Johnny had a lot of friends, and he was known among those friends as someone that liked to brag

about things. Sometimes even mundane things that weren't true. I heard Johnny liked to talk. Is that true? He liked exaggerating a lot of things. Like what? What did he ever say to you? Like what did he say?

He said exaggerate about money. At trial, there were several people who mentioned that Johnny would have all opt in brag about a safe that was inside the house with a bunch of money. And multiple people said that. And again, there's no evidence that there was. I believe there was a, you know, a party a couple days before the murder. And I do believe had a party that Johnny bragged about there being a safe with $100,000 inside that house.

So I think there was somebody at that party that was either involved in this or told somebody who was involved in this. I think when you look at the scene, couple of things jump out. I think somebody knew Johnny and Lisa and they knew that Mr and Mrs. Drob were not going to be in the house. And the people were very, they're looking for something very specific. And when you think about a safe inside the wall, there's no doubt that they were

tearing up rooms looking for that. As of June 2022, Sam Williams is the only person convicted for the murders of Johnny and Lisa, and according to investigators, the case remains open and active. Now, the interesting thing about the case is that there were still several unknown sets of DNA that were found at the crime scene. So at this point, the Sheriff's Department is looking into the possibility of possibly doing advanced DNA testing and by advancing genealogical testing. Genealogical DNA testing can be used to identify a suspect through immediate or distant relatives.

And this method of testing has been useful to authorities for several years now. In 2018, it identified the Golden State Killer as Joseph James DiAngelo, a serial killer that murdered at least 13 people in the 1970s and 1980s. In 2020, genealogical DNA testing also solved a cold case out of Tarant County, Texas, as it led police to finally close the case of 17-year-old Carla Walker, who had been beaten, raped, and strangled to death in 1974. We actually covered that case here on Sword and Scale episode 208. Check it out. It's one of my favorite episodes and I'm deeply in love with the producer who wrote it. Wait,

wait a minute. Anyway, as for Johnny Clark and Lisa Straub, they were murdered in January of 2011, which is over 10 years ago. The Lucas County Sheriff's Department has had the chance to perform this advanced DNA testing for a while, and they have claimed that they are open to the idea. If it's going to help us close a case, I'm especially like I said, when it has to do with the loss of life or another serious crime, you want to do everything that you possibly can. Given that the technology is available and police seem interested in pursuing it, a logical question would be, what's the hold-up? It's a really good question. What the hold-up has been, you know, when I began looking at this case, I shouldn't say no D and A had been submitted. No evidence had been submitted for additional testing

in almost 10 years. And that was kind of confusing to me. And that was one of the main points I brought up with the Sheriff's Department. Why aren't you doing additional testing? You say this is still an open case, but nothing has really been done with it in the past 10 years.

And as a result of our investigation, really I believe it's completely the result of our investigation. Now we kind of forced some to take another look into the case. Now at this point the Sheriff's Department really has shut down communication with me so I don't know exactly what's going on but the last correspondence I did have with the sheriff, he said that they were taking another look at some of that unknown DNA and they were somewhat optimistic that it could be tested, you know, but what's happened since then I just don't know. Meanwhile, as we wait for answers from police, so two does Johnny's and Lisa's parents. Lisa's mom and dad obviously want to find answers.

Johnny's mom and dad are very aggressive than wanting to find answers. I mean, I have never seen a level of grief that to this day, more than 10 years later, that I still see from his mom. I mean, Johnny was her first born. I mean, he really was the true love of her life. For now, the only thing that Johnny and Lisa's family and friends can do

is honor their memory and continue to celebrate the very short lives that both of them lived. Happy birthday to you. Last month Johnny Clark's family and friend marked his 30-second birthday at his grave site. I missed what could have been. I missed what he would be today. Yesterday, tomorrow, I miss the children he would have. We love you, Johnny! Johnny Clark and Lisa Straub were good people, and they came from good families who lived in good neighborhoods.

Because of this, nobody could have ever expected that their lives would have been taken in such a cruel and horrific way. You know, bad things don't always happen in bad places. Bad things can happen in good places. This was a good neighborhood, you know, a good household. These were people that did have good friends. So it's not always necessarily the people out looking for trouble.

You know, sometimes trouble can just find you. Many of us go out of our way in an attempt to ensure some level of safety in our lives, but unfortunately, that safety can never be guaranteed. All it takes is just one monster. Or in this case, multiple monsters to break down a door and do something unthinkable. What's truly scary is that at least one of the monsters involved in this particular crime is probably still out there. And who knows what they've done since or who they might come after next.

So what does this all mean? And what can we learn from the story of Johnny Clark and Lisa Straub? How do we handle the fact that despite our best efforts and despite putting ourselves and our families in supposedly safe environments, nothing can ever guarantee the safety we hope to achieve? Should we buy extra locks for our doors, get a guard dog, and sleep with a gun under our pillow at night? Or should we just accept that there are things we can't change and live each day like it might be our last? These are questions that only you can answer for yourself. But more than likely, the best approach is to find some middle ground that you and your family can live with.

You've probably often heard me say at the end of each show, stay safe. But this time, I'll close with this. Consider the risks of things you do before you do them, but also remember that life isn't just about safety. Cherish your loved ones. Try to appreciate each day as best you can. And just do your best. After all, that's going to do it.

I hope you had a good time here with us today. I think the moral of the story is, you know, don't murder people. That's kind of like the moral of the story of every story we tell. The number is 95488-968-54. Call in and give us some beautiful holiday wishes until next time. Stay safe. 1 tbc 1 tbc 1 tbc 1 tbc 1 tbc 1 tbc

1 tbc 1 tbc 1 tbc 1 tbc 1 tbc 1 tbc 1 tbc 1 tbc 1 tbc I'm calling to tell you how smart you are because I haven't been thinking for a month. The selling point for plus is, don't you want to have sorted scale every week. I can't imagine what it would be like to have to wait for two weeks to get the next episode of Gordon's scale.

And so grateful for plus because I get to have an episode once a week. So now you're showing all those people who don't have spots, What is life that has sort of scale once a week? Unfortunately, now I want to have sort of scales twice a week for the rest of my life. And I think I want to die by drowning in a sea of sort of scale. So if you could manage that one, that would be fabulous. Keep up the great work.

Stay safe. Thanks very much. Thanks. 1 tbc 1 tbc 1 tbc 1 tbc 1 tbc 1 tbc 1 tbc 1 tbc

1 tbc 1 tbc 1 tbc 1 tbc 1 tbc 1 tbc 1 tbc and see you see you see you see you see you

see you see you see you see you see you see you see you see you Thanks for watching! you