Sword and Scale - Episode 231

Episode Date: December 31, 2022

The world can be a scary place when you’re young. After her husband moved to a nursing home Barb Olson thought the scariest times were behind her. At 78 she still had an active lifestyle. Between church, driving friends to their appointments, and the gym she was always busy. She still made time for her children and grandchildren though. That’s why when Barb missed her usual Tuesday morning visit with her daughter, Judy, she began to worry. When she went to check on her that afternoon she would discover more about her family than she wanted to.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Sort and scale contains adult themes and violence and is not intended for all audiences Listener discretion is advised People just a flabbergasted this could happen not only in the community within the county bludgeoning a 76 year old person to death. I become ah, this is the old Stephen King type of stuff I mean come, ah, this is the Stephen King type of stuff Hello and welcome to season 9 episode 231 of sword and scale a show that reveals that the worst monsters are real Make you once again for joining us. This episode is going to be one of the ones you're going to remember for quite a while. As the final episode of season 9, don't worry, we'll be back within a week for our 10th year in operation. Thank you guys so much for joining us for sticking with us for all this time. We've had a hell of a run so far.

It's been quite something. And we want to thank you all for continuing to listen and continuing to be here. We have a whole lot of exciting stuff planned for this year, so we hope you'll join us. But for now, let's get right into it, shall we? You know, we're at the time of the year, where everybody's looking towards how to improve themselves for the next. It's a time to change things about you that you don't like, to make yourself better, to reinvent yourself, to grow. Personal growth isn't all about pushing yourself though. It's not just about setting goals that are just out of reach and striving to achieve

them. At a certain age in everyone's life, personal growth is unavoidable. During teenage years, everything is a new obstacle. All goals are just out of reach. And it's during this time in our development that we learn to push ourselves to do what we normally wouldn't, and to strive to achieve new goals. But personal growth during the teenage years

isn't always self-conceived. Sometimes it's forced upon you by the pressure of peers. And peer pressure, while a powerful motivator, doesn't always work in your favor. You know, when you're young and stupid, peer pressure can put you in a place where you're far in and over your head. And for short, of whatever goal you thought you wanted to achieve. He didn't know anything. It wasn't his emergency. He only answered the door when a frantic woman knocked. Please send an ambulance in the police. My mother is laying in the garage and there's a lot of blood.

And there's a blanket over her head. She's not answering me. How did she, how did the happened? It looks like she might have held over a step. But there's a lot of blood. How did the towel, how did the blanket get over her? I have no idea. Judy Offett hadn't heard from her mother barbolson since Sunday

It was now Tuesday evening She walked into the garage and noticed her car was gone Then she noticed something spilled on the floor and a crumpled up blanket by the kitchen door It was only when she saw the leg sticking out of the blanket that she realized it was her mother. She ran to her mother calling her name, but couldn't bear to look when she saw the blanket was soaked in blood.

She wanted to call for help, but forgot her cell phone, and she was far-sighted so she couldn't dial the landline phone. She ran to four neighbors' houses before someone finally answered the door. I've been trying to call her all day. I didn't hear from her yesterday. She usually comes over in the morning and she didn't stop them calling her.

Okay. She usually comes over in the morning and she didn't stop them calling her. Okay, and you find who can wetthread, wetthreads, and some white and foam. Her mother always came over on Tuesday mornings. This Tuesday, Barb was a no-show. When she found her mother on the floor of her garage, that little fear in the back of her mind was confirmed. At some point in everyone's life, you have to face the fact that no one lives forever. And that eventually, those closest to you, your parents, will inevitably pass. Judy still wasn't prepared and couldn't stand this crap, as he hung up the phone. How neighborly.

A short time later, the street would be swarmed with the police and fire rescue. At work, Michael Offit, Judy's husband, would get a foreboding message. mother-in-law's house and that was all they said so I didn't know. I was about to hurt or to have got my wafer. Okay. So it's burning down and blocked. Right. A vague message from the fire chief to go to his mother-in-law's house, sent Michael into a spiral of speculation and worry.

He hurried across town. So when you got to your mother-in-law's house, what did you see? Fire rescue vehicle. Another squad car and I saw my wife's car in the driveway. She was sitting in the back of the fire rescue truck. He arrived just in time to add to the ballet of Chaos. Multiple squad cars and fire and rescue trucks flooded the streets surrounding the home. Michael went straight for his wife to find out what happened. hit her head and it was blood all over the place and she had a blanket wrapped around her head. Maybe she had a blanket around her because it was cold and got caught in the door. But Judy said she didn't ever shoes on and she wouldn't be going into the bathroom.

Shoes on. Maybe it was an accident and Barb fell and hit her head really hard. It isn't unheard of. She could have broken a hip. She was 78 years old after all. I'm going to be honest, I have not been in the scene at all, so I don't have any idea what happened there. I know that we have people in there processing it and trying to figure out what happened, but I have not been in there, so I don't know. So one of the things that we do when we try and figure out what happened is we have people

at the scene working that and then we have other people going and talking to people. And that's what we're doing right now. We're just talking to people. And usually we just, we start with the people who know the person the best, which I think could probably be you and you guys. Judy's father, Barb's husband, was recently moved to a nursing home after his Alzheimer's just became too much for Barb to handle, but the situation didn't spoil her resolve to keep living her best life. So Judy, I think the last time you talked to your mom would have been late morning, what day and

Monday? She volunteered to drive elderly people to their doctors and dentist appointments and a friend of hers from Bible study group she was gonna start meals on wheels with them. She actually started by yet I'm not. Turns out Barb was pretty spry for 78. Often taking people even older than herself to their routine appointments. She even planned on starting a meal on wheels program. The idea that she just tripped and fell was starting to seem unlikely. The detectives

on the scene saw it for what it was, an obvious murder. What Michael didn't know and Judy didn't realize is that the liquid spilled on the floor of the garage was a bloody trail where her body was dragged. If it's not an accident, who would be somebody who would want to hurt your mom? Nobody knows. She doesn't have any enemies. There's nobody who has anything against her. She doesn't owe money to anybody or never did anything to anybody who would cause them to retaliate or anything like that. Despite saying Barb had no enemies and didn't know any money to anyone, they did have a couple of theories. You said that if somebody killed Barb, you were wondering if it could have been retaliation against you

for something. What do you mean by that? I tend to be pretty vocal about political issues. We all know that can get you in trouble. I guess the reason I'm not thinking about the people that I sent them to do anything. I'm thinking about somebody else. It's a paranoid illusion. I don't want to get into a big political debate or anything, but what do you mean by anti-government? Well, I do a lot of research on the internet. A lot of people start to roll your eyes when you say that, and there's evidence for things that I think people would not like to hear about. They would like to just go away, like, vocal almost city bombing, and that 9-11 bombing, there's a lot of unanswered questions and there's evidence that was destroyed immediately after the event and that never happens in a crime scene and it should be raising questions. So I say things like that and you know some people that I email, but if somebody found out that I was getting

on to the truth, powerful people have ways of doing things without doing themselves. Like I said, it starts on paranoid if you say it all out. Okay. This guy's afraid of the deep state because he knows too much Jesus. Listen, I'm not saying there isn't a deep state or that it's intentions. Aren't anything short of pure evil or anything. But let's just say that there is. Why would they care what Michael from Shaboygan thinks?

It seems like most people have this inflated sense of self. Like they think they're more important than they are. Huh. inflated sense of self, like they think they're more important than they are. Huh. Then again, as Michael said himself, it was a bit of a paranoid delusion. Have you ever received any threats or anything in relation to this? Have you ever seen anything suspicious that, you know, no? Michael's political views had likely nothing to do

with Barb's death. Their other theory was a little more sound. Judy and Michael's grandson, Barb's great-grandson, Antonio Barbó, had recently been getting into trouble. When they blamed it on the kid that started hanging out with, Nate pop. Because of something Tina was involved in maybe? What do you mean by that? Because of this family that was harboring him.

Okay. Because they provided him with cigarettes and alcohol. I don't know if it was just beer. And did she say drugs to? Kate said. Because of Nate's family. Yeah, Nate's family because Nate's mother let them do whatever they wanted and she gave them drugs and they. What kind of drugs is that? And a text message from his phone, right? Right. And Nikki saw that? Yeah, she turned it over to a team of the attorney. Now they feared retaliation from his family for outing their

bad life decisions. Of course, it was pure speculation on their part, but Granddaddy Deep State had a theory within a theory. More likely that in my opinion that has something to do with them is that the car is in that exact neighborhood. Somebody was coming through the neighborhood. Whose car? My mother's. My car was stolen. Okay. Somebody was just coming through the neighborhood.

And how do you know that? Because it has a non-star and founded at McDonald's over there. So the car was taken from the house and found at the McDonald's in Towneerigan, or in Shaboyka. Was that two blocks north of your house and about six blocks west? It's about where it is. It's right in the same neighborhood as the house of the people. Barb's car was missing from the garage when Judy founder.

Luckily it had on-star and it was traced to a parking lot of a business plaza. This business plaza was coincidentally close to Nate's house. I don't know that there's any retaliation. I just don't know that right now. I have no idea. We're trying to piece together. What could have happened there? We don't know it, but that's a risk. They were afraid and searching their minds for any reason that this would make any sense. But Barb's death didn't make sense.

Few ever do. Whether it was the deep-state sending Michael a message or some sort of retaliation by the family of Nate Pop, the police hadn't confirmed it was even foul play. Well, not yet anyway. Judy Offett found her mother lying in the garage unresponsive, but she could tell she was hurt badly because of all the blood. She thought maybe she fell and hit her head, but to the trained eyes of authorities, it was obviously foul play. The homicide investigation began immediately,

but the police couldn't keep it from the family or the community for very long. As the eye-opening news of the murder of a 78-year-old woman spread, those that knew Barb and those that didn't suffered the misery together. I don't know when the last time I heard of the murder here. In fact, before Barb's murder in 2012, there hadn't been a homicide in Shaboygan Falls, Wisconsin, in 16 years. The entire Shaboygan Falls, Wisconsin, in 16 years.

The entire Shaboygan County only averages one to two first degree murders per year. Nobody locks every single door and you know it puts a little fear of God into you. Now I think everybody's disturbed about this whole thing that could happen to anybody anytime and, and you know, anywhere. But the news got worse. The police reported that not only was Barb murdered, but it had occurred at least one day prior, if not more. The realization that Barb may have been alive and unable to get help, was devastating.

Devastating for everybody, not just the neighbors, but certainly the family. She could have been alive, but you know, that's the way life works. There's a lot of what-ifs and what could have been. It's just hurting in that. That kind of thing would happen in my own neighborhood. It's three kids. You know, I just kind of stuffed with it, but it's fine. The only realistic lead from interviewing the office You know, I just kind of stuffed with a hip, but it's tight.

The only realistic lead from interviewing the office was the idea that the family of Nate Popp retaliated against them. Still, first they had to understand his relationship with Antonio Barbó, Barb's 13-year-old great-grandson, whom everyone called Tino. It's very gregarious, very smart, outgoing, very talented, ethyletically. You can do anything with a ball. It's like the ball, it's hands of magnet. Or at least he used to be able to do anything with a ball. He was hit by a helicopter a couple years ago. And before that he was very athletic and very into sports. And then he had a serious head injury so he wasn't allowed to explore.

When Tino was 11, he was riding his bike and got hit by a car. The impact was enough to throw him on top of the vehicle. He had a concussion but he didn't have any gashes or, I mean his head wasn't peeled open or anything like that. of the vehicle. Tino didn't break a single bone, but he suffered a severe concussion that warranted a life flight to another hospital and continued treatment for two years later. As a result, his doctor warned him not to play any contact sports. After Tino lost his ability to do what he loved, he found new interests in new friends, but they weren't the kind of interests or friends his family approved of. As Tino's click changed, so did his behavior. He stayed overnight here one night.

I had $405 in my money clip on my desk and all of it was gone. That doesn't mean he took it but he was here and he's not here that often. And it disappeared when he was here. And then a week or so later my wife had an electronic cigarette and a charger. That disappeared. It was new behavior for Tino and they were certain it was due to an outside influence. He and Nate were at your mom's house and he was acting suspicious and cold, asking what was in his sock. If she thought she saw him put something in his sock and it was $100 from Arth's purse. The more they tried to correct his course, the further he veered off into petty crime.

He admitted to going through up to 25 cars, didn't cars that were open, they were looking for things of value. So what is your take on him stealing stuff, going in people's cars or stealing stuff from somebody's house? What are you thinking about going on there? I think he's looking for attention.

I think he is looking for attention. I think he is. Probably expecting. For no mind or anything. There were convinced Tino wouldn't have done any of that if he hadn't fallen in with the wrong crowd. His hijinks persisted until he finally got in real trouble. The people never locked their house and he knew that anyway. They were things are misdissappearing from their house from Nick's house Yes

And who set up a video camera? What is that so we set up the video and they caught who's stealing? Nick I'm not They were busted on camera burglarizing the home of a friend from school. Definitely not criminal minds. Being under age, they weren't looking at any severe time, but the two boys got different punishments. So, then after that, they put him into a safe house, I guess they called it. Nate didn't get any kind of her man at all, from the police, he just went home.

Because Tina was a juvenile, he was put into what Shaboygan County calls shelter care. Because the pair seemed to get in trouble together, they thought it better not to place Nate in the same care. Instead, they sent him home. Tina still went to school, but spent every night at shelter care. Instead, they sent him home. Tino still went to school but spent every night at shelter care. After a couple of weeks he started to become upset at how long he still had to be there and just decided to run off one day after school.

And then at that point, we suspected that Tino had not go to. He suspected that Tino hid at Nate's house for days, avoiding his mother and on the run from his arrest warrant. But they couldn't be certain. Eventually, however, he was spotted coming out of Nate's house by his uncle, an older cousin who grabbed him and called his mom. My son's uncle and he and his son, who's been to your 19, who still is with them, are the ones that helped me. The police to get my kid out of there. So they were watching the house and they got him. And they didn't go in. They waited until he came out and they got him.

The office clearly put a lot of blame for Tino's behavior on Nate and his family. Well, that's a big thing when kids hook up with the wrong people. Sometimes they're led to do things they normally wouldn't do. That influence can be strong at times. Children are, well, children. They can be easily influenced and even manipulated. Granted, these boys were teenagers, but thinking you know everything doesn't make you immune to inexperience.

All the offense knew was that before Nate Tino was different. He was better. They now feared retaliation from Nate's family for outing them as having loose morals and shucking societal norms and laws. Detectives had a lot of information and a lot of speculation to sift through. Not to mention the crime scene and the car, which they put a unit on just to see if the culprit would come back. They were already at least a day behind whoever did this, so they had to be quick. Barb's body was found at 1pm on Wednesday, September 9th. Judy last spoke with her in the morning on Monday, September 7th.

That's a big window of time for this crime to have been committed within. The car was the best bet. And the coincidental proximity to Nate Pops' house combined with Tino's history with him and the office concerns of retaliation, he and his family were more than worth talking to. And we want to talk to you because we understand that you are friends or somehow associated with a person By the name of Antonio our bow. Yeah, Tino. I'm sure you was by the name Tino. Yeah, okay So you're are you friends? Yeah, is it okay if I call him Tino to you? Is that how you is that what you call them? Yeah Okay, so you're friends with Tino. Yeah, okay. Are you guys pretty good friends? Yeah. Okay. Do you guys hang out a lot? Yeah. Okay.

Was this guy coached by a lawyer? Talk about answering only yes or no. So he claims to be friends with Tino and that they hang out all the time. Did you know that Tino was a runaway? Yeah. Okay. that Tino was a runaway? Yeah. Okay. What did he say his plan was? I mean, as far as being a runaway, being, you know, running away from the shelter care and not being picked up by his mom. And it's pretty much just hide somewhere until his curfew was lifted and then start walking around. And next, pretty much it. He goes on to say that Tino stayed at his house Saturday night, but left, mid afternoon, the next day. Then he ran into him on the way to school Monday,

and again, mid day on Tuesday. Just in time to witness Tino's cousin, grab him. Okay, so he left here about 2 o'clock on Sunday, then you didn't see him anymore on Sunday then, right? No. And then you said, um, you saw him again on Monday? Yeah. Okay. Is that the only time you saw him then on Monday?

It's when he walked into school in the morning? Yeah. Okay. And then you stayed here Monday night, did your homework and hung out here. Yeah. We needed to go anywhere Monday night. Oh, no. Okay. Did you know I'll tell you Nate where he stayed then? No. And really, you say what he's saying. He just said that he had again, until curfew was left in. Okay, when's the last time you think you saw a teen? Yesterday. Yesterday? And where was that at?

Just down on the corner, on the flock. Down on the corner of this flock? Yeah. Okay, so it'd be like 13th Street and I don't know where it's in Broadway. 13th in Broadway? And he was wanting by the police because he ran away. Oh, okay. He was lying by the police car. And they grabbed him and that's all I know.

Nate's story was tight-knit. He was either at school or at home, except for the one time he went to the store. That's when he witnessed Tino being grabbed by his family. Except for Saturday night and that incident, Nate's story doesn't really account for Tino's whereabouts. Perhaps Tino could have been committing the brutal crime, or maybe that's what Nate wanted them to believe. The detective pressed on.

Searching for anyone else, he might have hung out with between Friday after school and Tuesday afternoon. You know why they don't hang out anymore? Oh, yeah. Why is that? He broke into the house before. Who broke into who's house before? You know, broken index, okay? Dino Honda found out.

They set up cameras and call them on it. So he brought into there else more than once? Yeah. Dino, many times that four. Four times that Tino brought into the next house? Yeah. Do you know how many times that, uh, four? Four times that Tino broke into Nick's house? Yeah. It's almost like he's trying to make Tino out to be the bad guy. He's cleverly trying to omit the fact that he was there with Tino all four times.

The detective sees through this easily though. How do you know that? How does Justin? You were with Tino? Yeah. The detective sees through this easily though. The detective was sure he was hiding something, but she was starting to suspect Tino. The kid is a runaway and has been getting into progressively more trouble lately. If Nate and his family were a bad influence, then maybe Tina was welcoming it. Did he say anything else to you, Nate? No.

Did he tell you that he did anything against the law? Well, you've obviously gotten in trouble with Tina before. And I don't really want to hear the details about you guys breaking the house Because I'm not here. We're not here to talk about that. So And I don't know if you've gotten in the trouble or done things other things But and I don't know if Tino's done anything or not here, but it's really important that you take care of you Do you understand what I'm saying? And not get sucked into any trouble with him.

That being said, and it sounds like you'd have pretty tight time of being home here over the last few days. But it's really important that if you know, even if you know, like you weren't there, because it sounds like you've been here at home or here at school, except for on yesterday, that if you told you about something that he did, even if he told you, it's really important that you share that with us. It's pretty important that you not try to cover for him. You know what I mean? You understand what I'm saying? Yeah. Okay. What else do you want to share with us?

Kind of write it down. Can you write it down? Yeah. Yeah, you can write it down. Yeah, you can write it down. With that, her partner handed him a piece of paper and it began to sob as he scribbled words down. The words young Nate wrote, no one would expect. At the tender age of 13, he fast to murder. She goes to sit here for a second because my partner can just talk to your mom. I know you wrote that down and maybe you wrote it down because you didn't want her to hear that. Is that why you wrote that down?

Okay. Eventually, they would have to corroborate his story with that of Tino's. The following day Tino, who was already in custody, was brought into an interview room. There was a serious incident involving your great grandmother, I believe. Do you know who that would be?

I don't know. You know who I said? I said, yeah, I think it is. Uh, then... Grandma, Barb? What's her? Is it grandma or a great grandma? I just say grandma. But is she your grandma or is she a great grandma?

She's my great grandma. Okay. Do you know anything at all about what made it happen to her? Have you heard anything? Do you know anything at all? No, what happened to her? Nothing at all. So, you don't know anything about what? No, what happened? Nothing at all.

So you don't know anything about when's the last time you saw your grandma? I don't know, I've been in trouble with past month or two. I'm thinking at least a month ago. Was that basically it? Yeah, I didn't really talk, talk, share talk sure Like unless it's like a family reunion and we're like we all get together, but otherwise yeah Do you get along pretty good with your great-grandmother? He seemed oblivious to what was discovered while he was in custody Then I before Nate went on to also confess that Tino had been with him in the house

from Saturday until he was caught on Tuesday. And you said you were with Tino on one day. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Would there be any reason at all that some of these people that we've talked to would have said that you would have not necessarily been at Nathan's on Monday afternoon?

No. Because no one knew where I was. That's why I was missing. Okay. No one's right. So the people, if you were all walking around and stuff? Well, I mean, unless people saw me, but I didn't like specifically walk where I passed my house or anything. He was missing. How could anyone know where he

was or wasn't unless that person was? Of course, Nate. On Monday, when you got home from school, what happened, Nate? We were talking. You and Tino were talking? Yeah. Okay. You said, I know how to get money. Okay. Tino claimed he hadn't been to Grand Ma Barbs House for at least a month. If that's the time Judy Offit mentioned, Tino tried to swipe $100 from her purse, but his mom caught him. And that was that your great-grandma has housed you?

So do you know where that is? Do you know the address? Money chains or the money? The money with the address. Do you know what street it's on or anything? The money with the I know is it's in the shaboy and falls. And I know the area that it's in, but I don't know the address to it. Nate claimed Tino had an idea for how to get money. And that included his great grandmother

Barb. When asked if he knew where Barb lived Tino, told the truth, he didn't know the address just the general area, which tracked with Nate's confession. So after your mom dropped you and Tino off by the roundabout at 42 and 28, what happened then Nate? We walked in her house. Okay. To who's house? His grandma.

His grandma? Well, there's no reason at all that when we've talked with people, and like I said, we've talked to a bunch of people and we're still talking to people, but anyone would say that you would have been at your grandma's? Great grandma's, I'm sorry? No, I had no reason to. I mean, would, like, people would have known I was there. I wouldn't have just randomly been there. As far as just showing up, you mean her one?

Yeah, like, I don't see how people would say I was there. Like, just, when I'm missing, when wow, I go there. Just think randomly going. I ain't want to explain. So you're straight out saying and you had said before that the last time you saw her at all was at least a month ago? Yeah. So you would straight out be saying that if anybody said that they specifically saw you and your great grandma, Barbals, and his house any time within the past two or three weeks or something that they're lying.

Yeah. Okay. That was the least convincing denial he's produced yet. The detective was being gentle. What Nate confessed wasn't proven yet, but if it was true, he had to push Tino harder, so he tried to insult him. Maybe that would get him to reveal some truth. It was a Bieber cut and this was 2012 so you know the amount of hair flicks this kid is doing with his bangs. Well there would be any reason that somebody would say that they saw someone about your size,

like with that type of haircut at your grandma's house within the past week. So you're straight out saying that you weren't there and they must be mistaken or lying or something Yeah If you have any enemies that for any reason at all with Would lie while something like that, especially if there was a serious incident with a living here great grandma that they would want to Point the police to you basically Not really for sure not in the follows because I barely go there And then I should boy you and I really don't have that many enemies I tend to get along with most people pretty easily

He yawned in the face of the detective's questions. I mean if that's not a disrespectful little fuck. I don't know what is He's just a little too casual Considering his situation, don't you think? Tino claimed he didn't have any enemies, but when you have friends like Nate, you don't need enemies. Okay. This is the garage door is open. Okay, the garage door is open at his grandma's house? Yeah, it went in there. He had a plastic bag.

He put on his head, but he didn't see all the things, so he just took it off. He just had it open, the door was crammed, like walk though and said who was that she said she's like a teen and she was like no and I'm standing behind the door. Almost as if on cue you can hear thunder in the distance says Nate begins to divulge the details. I had accepted on something and then she said, come on, I came on and then we, she's like, what do you do? She asked us if we were cold and that's why we were in the garage. And then she said, yeah, and then she invited us into the, she said that she's going to

call Taylor's mom and that's until I turn her head. If I were to tell you that's your great grandma, Barbara Olson, was killed, would that surprise you? Would you have any idea at all? How that could have happened? No, no idea at all. No. I think that you're not real close to her

as far as hearing that news and just... I mean, as I said, I never like talked her that often. I did a little bit, but not that much. Okay. Did you hear that? Did you pay attention to that clip? He sits there emotionless when they give him the news that his great-grandmother is dead, murdered, in fact.

Even with three generations between them, you would expect a little bit of a reaction, no? I'm going to give you one more chance to tell the truth, okay? I've already told you that we've talked with a lot of people, okay? We have a lot of stuff, okay? And I'll tell you right now, you're not telling me the truth. Is there anything at all that you've talked to me about that you want to change your story and tell me the truth or do you want to stay with what I consider a lot of lies. And you need to really think about this, okay? And you need to think about your future, and you need to think about the potential of

being in front of a judge and saying, he straight out lied about absolutely everything. He never took any credit for anything. And said that he had nothing to do with anything at all as far as great grandma holds. And I'm tired. I will sit here and listen to the truth, but I'm not going to sit here and listen to a bunch of more lines, okay? So I want you to tell me the truth of what happened. It's all we're looking for is the truth. So what do you want to clarify and tell me the truth about? Me and Nate did. Who do my grandmas? We and Nate did murder my grandmas. You and Nate, one to your grandmas went.

One day. And then we attacked her. The horrible truth Nate didn't want his mother to hear was not just that he murdered an old lady, but that he and Tino murdered this poor woman. What did he say? He said, since his grandmother is somewhat rich, that he's gonna get the credit card pinned to take all the money out,

and he wouldn't even kill her right away. She just was gonna scare her. Just kind of threatened her. Yeah, she'd go grab for her. He was from the head and the back of the head. He said that was what his plan was? Yes. OK.

OK. You said it killed his grandma. But I think I thought he was just joking around with me. OK. And why did you go there and come up with the plan to do this? I think he was mainly just for money. Of course, their master plan was anything but well laid out. To conceal their identities during this home invasion, assault, and robbery,

they were going to put on plastic shopping bags over their heads. Too bad they decided it didn't work. Or we could have just been rid of them when they suffocated on their disguises. Okay, so you each put a plastic bag over your head? Yeah. Is that... why is that? Just so she can tell who we were. Okay.

Isn't that didn't work out so I gave him my sweatshirt to wear to cover his face? Okay. Isn't that your work-o, so I gave him my sweatshirt to wear to cover his face. Okay. Did your sweatshirt have like a hood on it and that's how it was going to cover his face? Yeah. Did he put it on then? Did he use the hood to pull the hood over his face? Yeah. I'm sorry.

This is a serious part, but imagining these two idiots putting plastic bags over their heads, and then presumably Tino cinching a hoodie tight over his face is kind of hysterical. Okay, back to the seriousness. Did you then hide in the garage or kind of stand off to the side? I said, if you wanted me to open the door to go inside to her house. Yes, but as I were to open it, it opened and she was standing right there. Just as they were trying to execute their plan, she surprised them. And then she was asking her a whole bunch of questions. Like, she first came to call her, who are you?

And the title was said, no one. And she's like, is that the title? And she's like, no. And she was like, are you calling? And she's like, is that Tittle? And she's like, no. She's like, and she was like, are you calling? He's like, oh, yeah. And he's like, do you want to come inside? And then she's in the ass, so we went inside. I was just open the door like the garage door was no window,

but she saw me, but she didn't see that hat, like, hitting me on my back, so then she told me to go inside. And then I was just like, hitting me on my back so that she told me to go inside. And then, like, I was just, like, putting it under my sweatshirt. She's like, don't steal the money. And then, she said she was gonna call my mom, and then, like, he knew it looked at me, and he nodded.

Do you know, look at her, look at me, and then look at her, and then, he's, then she said she's gonna call his mom, and then, right after, she said that, he hit her on the head. Tina hit his grandmother on the head? Yeah. Okay. What did he hit her on the head with?

Axe. And Axe? Yeah. With that initial blow that both boys agree came from Tina, Barb stumbled to the floor. The only other thing they both agreed on was that Tino used the flat side of the axe, not the sharp side. After that, their stories would differ. You talked about a flat back and then like the sharp putt, which way did you hit her

the first time? A flat part. Was there a reason at all? Or that's just the way it ended up in your hand? Or what? Well, quite sure, just because it was a flat part, and if I'm more blood blunt, would it work? Work as far as what?

For hating, just thinking general. Well, hitting in general as far as to put her down quicker, or what do you mean? Yeah, that's my name. So you ate her once with the flat end, right? Yeah. Did she go right down, or did she fight, or what happened? She...

Thank yelled, like once, and then I hit her one more time. I think then I ran to the bathroom because I didn't feel good. And then I'm quite sure Nate hit her once or twice with his a camera thing. And that's about all. She was suppinated to the floor. She stumbled to the floor.

And the two of us are hitting her over and over again. They were at least stopped. And he looked at me, and I only said, hey, help. And I was sitting there. Okay. Okay.

So he told me to help. I walked over there and then he started hearing again. He was watching. But he told me to hear, I didn't want to, I didn't want to, I wanted him hitting me, so I hit her. Okay. Twice in it, I walked away. Then he hit me, and then I just said. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know. I don't know. three more times. When she issue on the floor at this point? Yes. Okay, is she saying anything? She said stop. He said, need help. Okay. The lady took off the slusher. And then he slowly, and I, when he walked over and started to hit her again,

and then I slowly walked over. And I was panicking and and I know if I should do it or not. But I didn't want him to start hitting me so I hit her. And then he hit her some more? Yeah. In the head? Yeah. Do you know how many times?

Twice I should. Okay. Was she still saying anything or making any noise? She's just getting yelling to stop it. Okay. So she's still yelling to stop going to yell and stop it. Okay. So she's still yelling stop it at that point. Yeah. Okay. And then what did you do? And then two will keep hitting it and then I'll start it there. And then he grabbed and built it like shutter maker like quiet. So she's still yelling out. He

hit her in the head a few more times. How many times do you remember? It's a radio four. OK. She had an often conscience. Isn't it? Because why do you think that? Because we were hit and she was hit in the head. And then she started this snore.

And then the incident just used the sharp shot. And she started to like hear it really hard. And it got stuck in there. And her hull top head was like, come. Um, did you ever hear her with a sharp end in the blade? I think I did. I think I did. I think they took for me and they did once, like, only one time though, with a sharp end. The two 13-year-olds confessed to the shocking and brutal murder, but they pointed the finger

at each other for who did the worst of it, as if it even mattered. The only one reacting with any emotion to the murder they both committed, was not the victim's biological grandson. It was Nate. And after everything they did, all they got was some useless costume jewelry and $150 cash that they used to buy pizza and weed. If they were adults, they would be charged with first degree murder and potentially face life in prison in Wisconsin. But these two were anything but adults. Less than 12 hours after the body of Barb Olson was found, Nate Pop and Tino Barbow both confessed to her beating death. They were facing some serious consequences, but to what extent, they still didn't know. If you look at the actions of these two, and their age there is no choice but first

degree homicide. It was obviously not only the act itself was extremely disturbing but it was a callous almost I don't understand how anyone much less 13 roles can be someone feeling about someone. But these were kids and that needed to be weighed. As a prosecutor you don't you don't look at the Justin Bieber haircuts so they're innocent faces you look at what they did whether they're 13 or whether 80. That's how I think all prosecutors look at people. You are how you act. And how they acted was atrocious. According to both statements, they intend to go there to kill her and steal the robber money. The co-defendant is their

paper, struck her twice with a hammer that he brought, and then Mr. Bobo will struck her with the blade in of the hatchet with such forces stuck in her skull and required two of the two of them to pull it out. The law in Wisconsin states that any child from the age of 10 that is charged with homicide or attempted homicide can be tried as an adult. Transfer of the case back to juvenile court depreciated seriously offense. Our statutes are the way they're standing right now.

Ten-year-old facing life in prison, I don't understand them. They aren't adults, they're children. People need to understand that what the state said today is not necessarily the facts of the case, not necessarily the truth of what happened, and it might be some time before the truth of what really happened comes out. Tino and Nate would almost immediately be cast

into adult court for their adult crime. It's a very adult crime. It's the, the adult crime. Once the charges were in place, the boys had to plead. Tino pleaded not guilty by reason of mental disease or defect. Every criminal defense attorney, when they're dealing with this gruesome a crime, with this young a defendant, would be committing malpractice if they didn't. But that was built around when Tino got hit by a car and had a severe concussion. I could not subscribe to the fact that someone has a concussion three years earlier.

Some hall can't control himself to the point where he would allegedly, well not allegedly, more he put in, kill his great-grandmother, sorry, I don't buy it. A couple of weeks later, Nate also pleaded not guilty, but as the state built their case and the trial date was looming, Tino changed his mind. He took a plea deal with the state and changed his plea to no contest. You understand that I'm going to leave no contest to the court for finding a judge you guilt. Yes, yes.

By June, Jerry's selection was done, and Nate headed to trial, where the results of their gruesome act were displayed to the public. In examining the head, I felt that there were at least 18 different injuries or blows. I'm indicated that the bone is actually absent from that location. In that large area, I counted as one because I know there's at least one but I know that there's more than that I just can't say how many. After that initial blow that sent Barb stumbling, Tino, never let up. As she screamed for him to stop, he beat her without regard to where the blows landed, where she collapsed in the living room was where she died.

Blood spatter covered the walls and her recliner. Under the chair, police found portions of her skull and brain mixed with coagulated blood. The beating was so ferocious and so violent that a large portion of her skull was just missing. After she finally died, Tina wrapped her head in a plastic bag and cinched it tightly with Nate's belt. The two then tried to drag her into the garage and put her in the trunk of the car, but the teens weren't anywhere near strong enough to lift a 200 plus pound woman. They tried again using the blanket as a sling to help lift her, but still, they couldn't. So they just left her there.

Tino took the stand against his friend, who claimed Nate, was just as complicit in the crime as he was. She knew I was on the run, and she said she was in the call. I'm, what happened next? We got in, and then I looked Nate and nodded nodded and shook my head as in yes or no, he nodded and then I took the first swing. Okay. And we used to say that you took the first swing as with the hand axe.

Yes sir. She started heading into living room following. And as she was following, did you, were there any more blows? Did you strike her again? I hit one more time. As she was falling. At any point, did you not have the hand axe during this incident? Right after that, Nate took it and he used it the late side of it. To your knowledge, how many times did Nathan strike your grandmother, both including the hammer,

and then we took the hand axe from him? Again, about three to four. After his chillingly calm testimony, a prosecution rested and the defense called Nate who claimed he was serious? No. Did you think he was joking? Yes. He told me to go inside and scare and get her credit card pen number. And then he would come inside and start hitting her.

And I walked over to this person and he had a toy with a hammer. I was scared. Why were you scared? Um, that if I don't do it, Antonio says I need my shot something on me. We went into the living room where she was and Antonio picked up the hatchet and shrugged her with the blade side of the hatchet.

And he called me over because he got stuck me both out and pulled it out. He didn't say, if you don't come over here to help me, I'm going to hit you with this axedity. He didn't make any threat whatsoever to you to get him to come over to help you out him rather. Right. Which one over there and help them? Yes.

Do you figure out at that time that this wasn't a joke? Yes. And yet you still went along with this? Yes. Do you ever try to get Tina to stop you? Say, what are you doing? Stop it. Nate's defense tried to argue that he

suffered from decreased mental capacity and was easily manipulated, especially by his peers. They even called his mom to the stand. He always tried to fit in with his peers. He even called his mom to the stand. He always tried to fit in with his peers. But it was all or not. After a short deliberation, Nate would be found guilty of first degree intentional homicide. We've jury finally found Nathan J. Pop guilty of first degree intentional homicide as party to a crime. Before his sentencing he expressed his regret. I just want to say that I'm true sorry for everything that happened.

I actually heard everything was being happened that day. Every single day that was by I wish I could go peg and times stop everything from happening. That's it. After that, he was sentenced to life in prison with the possibility of parole after 31 years. Nate will be 45. Nate's aunt was disheartened by his sentence believing he was just a kid who made a bad choice in friends. Maybe the laws will change. But when it comes to sentencing kids, I hope it does.

I hope it does. He actually thought he was going to get to come home after he told the truth. He's not the monster that the check-offs making him out to be. He's a kid who followed another troubled little boy. At Tino's sentencing, he also addressed the court, but this time with the first sign of actual emotion. There's a lab going around, sent by the news, DA, many other people. They had a mouth cold, the heartless, the careless killer. And that's not true.

I know I don't show my emotions much. I myself am not sure why. But that doesn't mean I know. He stopped mid-sentence and handed his speech to his attorney. I took away someone's mother, their grandma, sister, friend. speech to his attorney. Tino was worried after Nate was sentenced to life in prison. His emotions were warranted. Too bad he didn't have any when he discussed beating his great grandmother to death. Tino would also be sentenced to life in prison but wouldn't be eligible

for parole until 2048, when he would be 50 years old. When the judge read the sentence allowed, Tino broke down. He let out a couple of sounds before he tried to stifle his sobs. Is Antonio Barbot genuinely remorseful for what he did? Yes, yes he is. I don't doubt that, and I never have. Barb's son, Tino's great uncle, agreed with the sentence. He won't necessarily get out when he's 50, but he still has to prove that he's worth great uncle agreed with the sentence. All that time wasted by Tino's family worrying about him being influenced by Nate, and it should have been the other way around.

The true ringleader was Tino. Great Grandma Barb's death was the climax of his story. It was everything he had been building up to at a record pace for his age. Hapless Tino just wanted to play sports, but when he couldn't, he rebelled. And somehow, talked Nate into doing it too. Nate wasn't that smart, let's face it. He didn't come from an affluent family, or even a middle-class one. He just wanted a friend, and he chose the wrong one. When they found themselves in that garage, they confessed to the police that neither one of them wanted

to follow through with their plan. But they didn't say that out loud. They didn't tell that to each other. These two were short-sighted. Perhaps all teens are in some way. They were just old enough to think they knew what they were doing, then when they found themselves way in over their heads, they had to man up or admit that they were scared. The peer pressure that each one of these two young men had on each other was profound. Neither one wanted to let the other know they were scared. And because of this, they inadvertently talked to each other into doing what they normally wouldn't, ending up far from where they wanted to be. Free. Well, we love you guys.

I think you already know that, but I'm going to say it again. We love you guys. We're here because of you. Thank you so much for listening. Thank you for being plus members of those of you that are. And we hope you have a wonderful, wonderful new year with your families and loved ones. We'll see you right back here for season 10, January.

Stay safe. Hi, my name is Elena Felulisiana. I've been a member of the bus member for a couple months now and I just have to say that you are the best podcast. I listen to you every morning when I drive to work and when I have free time during work. And on my right home, I just, I absolutely love to show, keep doing what you're doing. Thank you for all the team for working hard to fill out an awesome podcast. You guys rocked me. What's up Mike, just as we do, after 3028, this is Andrew from North Texas.

Yeah, I need a little warning on those when I saw him off the kid, like that. Appreciate it, though, but I did think of a good idea and said it being called Pat Holt, so like Pat Holt watches, just found, like, left offensive, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left, left I always nice to listen to on a long drive to work or to join on the weekend when I have time to keep up to good work. My name's Johnny, I'm a older road truck driver. I'm also a plus member. Thank you, thank you, thank you for all the time being. I couldn't get by my week without you. You have to do work.

Hey, calling from Ontario Canada. I just want to say that you are a great storyteller. I listen to your podcast every day going into work. I might not always agree with what you're saying, but we can agree to disagree and just keep doing what you're doing. Man, I'll keep listening. Thanks, bye. Nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke,ke,ke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke,ke, nekke,ke,ke, nekke, nekke,ke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke, nekke,Uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu uu