Sword and Scale - Episode 276

Episode Date: November 3, 2024

In the rare moments where love and fate converge, Reggie and Carol Sumner uncover a decades-old romance after years of being separated. Just as they begin a new life together in Florida, tragedy strikes them both, leading them to their darkest hours. When they turn up missing, their frantic daughter living in another state sets out on a quest for their return and discovers that time is running out.

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Please play responsibly. Gambling problem? Visit connexontario.ca. Sword and Scale contains adult themes and violence and is not intended for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised. I don't know what to do. If I tell you this, well, I don't want to go to prison. Hello and welcome. This is season 11, episode 276 of Sword and Scale, a show that reveals that the worst

monsters are real. I'm gonna be a man, I'm gonna be a man I'm gonna be a man, I'm gonna be a man I'm gonna be a man, I'm gonna be a man I'm gonna be a man, I'm gonna be a man I'm gonna be a man, I'm gonna be a man I'm gonna be a man, I'm gonna be a man I'm gonna be a man, I'm gonna be a man I'm gonna be a man, I'm gonna be a man I'm gonna be a man, I'm gonna be a man I'm gonna be a man, I'm gonna be a man

I'm gonna be a man, I'm gonna be a man I'm gonna be a man, I'm gonna be a man I'm gonna be a man, I'm gonna be a man I'm gonna be a man, I'm gonna be a man Ever take a road trip for a couple days or maybe even weeks? I have. Those days were fun, gotta admit. Trading in the brand new sports car for an SUV so I could pack my dog Ollie. With all of my worldly possessions and head north from South Florida,

one of the best things I've ever done in my life, to be quite honest. One of the most rewarding, enjoyable times of my life. And things happen on trips like that. You run into delays like traffic jams, detours, bad weather. I got stuck in a hurricane and had some shenanigans happen in a men's bathroom in northern Florida. And no, it's not what you're thinking. But the point is that all kinds of things happen. Sometimes you lose your wallet or your keys or you lock yourself out of your car.

And pretty soon the trip you're on isn't even close to the one you've imagined in your head. In your cabesa. Sure, you've met some cool people and even eaten at the dingy diner at the corner of nowhere. Food was fucking great. But you missed out on a few really important things, too.

Because life just threw a few curveballs your way. And everybody knows. Everybody that's been on this earth for more than three seconds knows, that shit happens. But it usually ends up okay in the end. Usually. In a quaint South Carolinian town in the early 60s, the love story of a married couple named Carol and Reggie unfolded like a fairy tale. Their tale began during high school when they were just 15 and started dating. The classmates soon became the ideal couple, inseparable and deeply in love. Nothing like that high school love.

It's life or death for some. Graduation in 1962 was supposed to mark the beginning of their married life, but Reggie's call to military service disrupted their plans. Somewhere in the midst of this, they took different roads and went their separate ways. Carol, resilient and determined, found security in a job in the nearby Air Force base and briefly explored another marriage before eventually marrying a man named Richard.

Unfortunately, Richard's struggles with alcoholism cast a dark shadow over their relationship. A domineering and abusive figure, he harbored an intense desire to keep Carol within his grasp. Any hint of independence from her would trigger merciless beatings. Regrettably, their young daughter saw a lot of the explosive scenes. Her father's anger and chaos seemed to dominate their family home. Carol mustered every fiber of strength she had and filed for divorce in 1987. The late 90s brought another cruel twist of Carol's life with a diagnosis of liver cancer.

Carol's life with a diagnosis of liver cancer. Her courageous battle left her a survivor, but one with a lifetime of daily medication and regular checkups. What a consistent horror cancer is. To accommodate her medical needs, she took a job at a call center answering phones for the local cable company, where she could continue to work in a way that wasn't physically demanding. Reggie also had his share of life's challenges, including a marriage that eventually ended and a number of health problems of his own. Years passed for both Carol and Reggie until a fateful day in 2000. Carol, working at the call center, received a call from a familiar voice.

Her body trembled at the sound because it was Reggie. He had no idea he was speaking to Carol, but she recognized the voice belonging to the love of her life. This mere phone call triggered a reconnection with her high school sweetheart after 38 years of separation. Can you even imagine? Their reunion was sweet and profound, The reunion was sweet and profound, leading to daily meetings, moving in together within weeks and exchanging vows in just a couple of months. I mean, it's not like they didn't have years to think about what they were missing. Rhonda, Carol's daughter, vividly remembered her mother's happiness that day and how the couple's love story came back to life

Despite their challenging medical histories they found solace in each other creating a life filled with happiness and love and comfort They settled into Reggie's home in Charleston partly to be near an ill friend who also needed their help Carol's daughter felt like she truly had a father and Austin, partly to be near an ill friend who also needed their help. Carol's daughter felt like she truly had a father and a loving family. Carol and Reggie's love story, marked by tragedy and triumph, continued as they took each day as it came with gratitude for the love they had finally found in each other.

This is Reggie's brother talking about both him and his sister-in-law, Carol. I would like to tell you about my brother and his wife, Carol. Reggie and Carol were the most innocent, kind-hearted, and wonderful members of my family. They were good neighbors, they were kind, and they were trustworthy. They helped those that were in need, and they had to give hospitality. Reggie would give you the shirt office back if you knew you needed it. They were givers, they were contributors to society. We were raised in a large family.

Reggie was a life of the family. He was a party of family reunions. He was always funny. Telling jokes and keeping people happy was his trademark. He would always insist on paying bills at a restaurant, and he had a habit of showing up at your door unannounced with goodies and cheers. He was a wonderful brother. Reggie had a rough growing up in a house of 11 brothers and sisters.

He was the seventh child of the Sumner family. He was the baby. Our father was killed in a motorcycle accidents when Reggie was just six weeks old at 32. My mother was a little with seven children. She remarried and had four more children. Mr Clark, a step dad, passed away in 1953. And as the older brothers and sisters were moving out, getting married or joining the military, Reggie stepped up to the plate and became the father-like figure and helped raise the younger siblings. He was such a good leader. He always set a wonderful example for everyone.

He was so loved by his siblings. Reggie was retired from CSX Railroad and although he and Carol were in poor health, they loved each other. They loved staying together. In love and relationships, many people, myself included, run through several partners trying to find the right one. It's not easy. I think that's pretty obvious. You make a lot of mistakes along the way. Often circumstances, timing, or personal growth lead people to just settle. Life has a habit of moving on and sometimes even getting in the way.

So sometimes it's just easier to find comfort, stability, and companionship in marriages that didn't start up or end up like Reggie or Carol's. Unlike fairy tales, it's a rare couple who meet and marry in high school without divorcing just a few years later. But rare and extraordinary love stories like theirs do exist. I happen to know first hand. And yes, I know how lucky I am. Two people who have been through it, marriage and divorce, and then rediscovered each other after decades. They become even more extraordinary when they stay together until their golden years

of retirement. Finally, they get to spend quality time with their loved ones, free from all the immaturity and the bullshit that goes with any relationship, at any point. When you've worked on yourself through trial and error for decades and you finally meet someone else that has done the same thing, it's kind of magical. This is how Carol and Reggie felt about each other, like their love was the rarest in the world and they were the luckiest people on earth. Reggie and Carol dated in high school and many years later they connected and got married. They lived in Charleston and by this time we lived in Jacksonville.

Carol was an easy-going person and a good cook. She kept Reggie well fed and enjoyed the good food and the good cook. She was the first time I visited them when they lived in Ladson, South Carolina. I spent a couple nights with them on that trip. There again, Reggie became the neighborhood big brother, dad, and friend. Reggie and Carol were only married a few years. Dad and friend. Reggie and Carol were only married a few years. A few years with Reggie already seemed like a blissful lifetime compared to what Carol had to put up with in her longest second marriage to Richard. Being married to this tyrant made meeting Reggie all the sweeter. One afternoon, back in the past, when Carol was at home with just her daughter Rhonda,

Richard, who was now her ex, had decided to carry out a bit of a nefarious plan. You see, Richard was depressed and he didn't want to live anymore, so, you know, if he wasn't going to be on this earth anymore, then neither would his wife, Carol. So that afternoon, he entered the home, started an argument, and shot Carol multiple times in front of their 10-year-old daughter. Gunshots shattered the tranquility of their home and the vicinity. Neighbors knew something bad was happening, so they called police immediately. Emergency responders rushed Carol to the hospital where her life hung in the balance.

Miraculously, she emerged from this whole ordeal, but her right eye bore the scars of the tragic incident. but her right eye bore the scars of the tragic incident. For the next year, 10-year-old Rhonda was compelled to act as her mother's nurse, pulling her back from the brink of death. After the trauma of her abusive marriage and nearly losing her life, Carol had strong doubts about getting involved with anyone ever again. That is, until she reunited with Reggie, who brought a ray of light into her life. It was like finding a favorite blanket tucked away in the closet, one that you thought you had accidentally thrown away. They already knew and trusted each other. They already knew who they were. They had known for decades.

Yet, as the years unfolded, an unforeseen tragedy loomed. Little did they know that their love story would face yet another poignant chapter. A chapter that would include burying their love forever. In rural South Carolina during the 1960s, Carol and Reggie's teenage love was abruptly interrupted when Reggie answered the call of military service, leading them on separate paths. Carol faced some pretty tough years, previously living through an abusive marriage to Richard, who mercilessly shot her numerous times in front of their 10-year-old daughter before ending his own life. Such a horrible thing to experience.

Such a selfish prick you have to be to do that to someone you claim to love. Carol's next challenge would be battling liver cancer in the late 1990s. As life's winding path unfolded, Reggie too faced challenges, including the end of a marriage. Remarkably, fate intervened in 2000, reuniting Carol and Reggie after 38 years. They picked up right where they left off and were the happiest they'd ever been. But fate was about to force the loving couple into a dark detour. The couple were now living in Jacksonville, Florida, where they relocated to be near some of Reggie's family,

while Carol's daughter remained in South Carolina. What's the address? 2015 Reed Avenue. When was the last time we spoke with her? Tuesday morning. What's her name? Her name is Carol Sumner. Is she a white female? Yes. And her husband is Reggie?

He's bedridden so he won't come to the door. Rhonda had just embarked on a lengthy mission to locate her mom and stepdad. A long journey that was just beginning. I've left probably 12 messages today alone. And they're both sort of part of hearing, so I need somebody to really get on the door. I just feel something's wrong. At that point, she was told she couldn't file a missing persons report over the phone and that she would need to call the Jacksonville police to make arrangements.

May I help you? Um, well I need to file a missing persons report and I'm out of town. Can I do it over the phone? I'll call you back. Who's missing? I'm sorry? Who'm sorry, my mother and her husband. Okay, and why you said they're missing man, what's going on? Nobody has heard or seen them or heard from them since Friday. They are in very poor health and Officer Nelson spent several hours last night over at their home and he said that it was, you know, it looked like they had, they just up and left,

but they left the dog there and the dog is inside and something, something's wrong, he hasn't called me over a week. And nobody, the last time they were seen or heard from was Friday. And Officer Nelson told me I needed to file a missing persons report, but I'm in Charleston, South Carolina. Okay, is there anybody here that can file a report for them here in Jacksonville? No. Does anyone here have a key to their residence? Yes, I do. I mean here in Jacksonville. No.

The door was unlocked. Officer Nelson was in their house. The door was unlocked. He was inside their house? Yes. Okay. Why was the report filed last night? I called Jacksonville State Department last night to have an officer go to their house. I was wondering why wasn't a report filed last night. Exactly. That's what Rhonda wanted to know. Why wasn't a report filed? They were both disabled, hadn't responded to calls for days, and left the dog alone. Again, she was passed on to another dispatcher when she asked for Officer Nelson, the officer who actually entered the home and saw that her parents were gone.

Hello, ma'am? Yes. This is Ms. Branson? Yes. OK, did you talk to the officer yesterday? Yes, ma'am. I talked to him numerous times last night. He went to the house and he said the door was unlocked and the dog was still inside. He got a little dog and he stayed

there several hours trying to... He found her address book and he called the sister-in-law to find out if anybody had heard from him. the last time anybody has seen her husband then was Friday. And they are in very, she's being treated for liver cancer and he's a diabetic. But he went into the house. Yes, he was in the house. Because I'm sure he made a report, but I don't know if it's a missing person report.

Let me check. He said he did not file a missing person report. And that's what I'm calling to do now. Okay. And where are you at? I'm in Charleston, South Carolina trying to get down there. Are you driving now? What do you mean by trying? I know I'm trying to make a race to get there. I've got two small children. I'm trying to make a race to get down there but I don't want to if I get in at

midnight, I don't want to you know, I'd like to get down there. But I don't want to get in at midnight. I don't want to get a file as soon as possible. So something's wrong. My God, don't ever lose your disabled parents in another state, I guess. He also was able to retrieve the license tag number of their car because their car was also missing. They have a South Carolina driver's license and a South Carolina license pass that they just moved to Florida. He was able to retrieve that information.

And he told me I needed to report the car stolen. OK, I'm thinking. And they're not caught in a hospice or anything like that? No, I've called every, I've called probably nine hospitals in that area. And, and, and tried to see if they admitted or treated and nobody, um, nobody had them in their, in their system. Um, Officer Nelson was able to retrieve information about if an ambulance had transported them and that came up negative. Or what you know what I mean, the ambulance did not visit the house.

Right. There's not been a sense that they are just... And my mother and I are very close. We talk every single day, every day. And I've not heard from her since Monday. I'm sorry, last Tuesday. Last Tuesday morning after the 4th of July, she called me and I've not talked to her since then and I figured that maybe they were sleeping or something and then finally yesterday I called the police department to have an officer go over there to see if they were dead. I didn't know.

Right. But the house was unlocked, the car was, and who said that the house right next door, either yesterday or the day before, had been burglarized? And with me being a state and a half away, I'm very in there. So did he make contact with the neighbors? He said he did, but I don't... He said the neighbors saw a light on Friday. That's not something the last time they heard or seen was on Friday.

Foul play was becoming obvious. You don't need a little badge for that. The neighbors just had their house broken into. Poor Rhonda knew something was really wrong, but found herself answering 20 questions with each operator she reached. But the next question just seemed silly. She wanted to know if they had maybe just gotten in the car

and gone on vacation. No, absolutely not, not without calling me. He's a diabetic, his health is extremely poor, car and gone on vacation. go. They're just, they're, they've got liver cancer. They're extremely ill. What, um, what's your last name, Miss Branson? My last name is Branson. What's your last name, Miss Branson? Give that just a second. Did you get the joke yet? Nah? Maybe you don't belong here then. And there, you know, he films them somewhere and they've got the car. I mean, we might find the car before we find them. Right, I see what you're saying, but I don't have any way to... He didn't make a note in the record?

No, I don't see it. Any idea when he'll be back on duty? At seven o'clock tonight. We've all been there, right? Stuck in a chat message loop or automated phone tree or pushed through from one person to the next. You all have Comcast, right? All for a simple question.

But this was about her missing parents, not about her cable bill. Every passing second could be a crucial second. Rhonda was desperately trying to make arrangements for her children so she could make the seven hour drive to Jacksonville, Florida. She asked for any officer to call her as soon as possible and what the address of the police department was

so she could go there herself. But then she was directed to go straight to the house of her parents The next call you hear is the one Rhonda made once she reached Jacksonville Yes, I need to have an officer out please any style of missing persons report Let's see. I do a plan 2015 Reed Avenue. My computer's gone.

Okay, who's missing ma'am? My mother and her husband. What's your name? Rhonda Branson. Did you already call in a report? No I haven't. I called in a report. I live in Charleston, South Carolina and I just came into town and I was told to call when I got here. And I'm here and I need an officer here so I can call the report.

Every time she spoke with a new 911 operator, she was asked the same repetitive questions, leaving her caught in a whirlwind of frustration. When all she wanted to do was locate her parents as quickly as possible. What we're trying to do is we have your car in the system already. It seemed like somebody said, oh, we had you set up to have an officer come talk to you. We're trying to figure out your parents. Have you reported both of them missing, your mother and her husband? Yeah. Okay.

How long have they been missing? Since Friday. Since Friday. Were they in a car? Yes, as far as I don't know. I live in Charleston, South Carolina and I... Okay, they don't have any other relatives here? No. Okay, and you're in Jacksonville now?

I'm at their house. Okay. You're at their house now? Yes. Okay, what's your mother's name? Carol Sumner. Okay, how old is she? She is 62.

62 year old white or black female? White. White female. What's the husband's name? James Reginald Sumner. How old is he? 918-43 is his birthday. What kind of car were they last seen driving?

Blue Lincoln Town Car. Blue Lincoln Town Car? Do you know the tag number on it? Yeah, ma'am. Is the officer gonna come out? Yes, ma'am. But I still need to put this information out. So we Bolo. Can we please listen? This branch and you may be upset, but we are doing our job and this is what we have to do because if you're missing that long and they're probably not, we could have put a Bolo out and anybody seeing somewhere else in the city, they can notify the officer that's on the way.

So that's why I'm getting this information. I don't know the tag number. Officer Nelson, you don't know the tag number. Go ahead. Officer Nelson was able to retrieve the tag number from South Carolina. I didn't get it from him. He knows. He got it. Interesting that one of the reasons her parents had been missing for so long was that no one in the system was communicating with each other. Every call she made to 911 or the police was like starting all over again, entering a new ticket in your customer support system. Ah, the efficiency of government. And then this lady gets an attitude with her, on efficiency of government. And then this lady gets an attitude with her. On top of everything.

By this time, Rhonda was exhausted. Wouldn't you be? That's 101 Sheriff's Office, Samantha. Um, yeah, I called one hour ago. Um, a police officer just came out to the house like a folly. Um, what's the person's report? What's the address? 2015 Reed Avenue. Person's report. What's the address? Twenty fifteen Reed Avenue. Two zero one five Reed Avenue.

Yes. One moment. Let me see what's going on now. Were they supposed to come out there to you or were they supposed to call you back over the phone? No, they were supposed to. Two zero one five? Yes.

Two zero five zero. No, twenty fifteen. Two zero one five. One second. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015. 2015 meet me at my mother's house. I can follow missing persons report. I call at 340. Okay, what's your address? 2015 Reed Avenue. Okay. What Rhonda didn't know was that her parents' kindness

and generosity had backfired on them, as happens to good people from time to time, especially in the world we live in today. It's always someone trying to take advantage of you in one way or another. Just look around. Just look at those plus prices, am I right? Remember that the neighbor's home had just been robbed? That was now becoming the assumption with Carol and Reggie. Their disappearance was, in fact, tied to a burglary, but not by the same burglars who entered the neighbor's home. Weird. The couple had very recently moved to Jacksonville, Florida to be near relatives and also one

of Reggie's closest friends who was dying of cancer. This man was divorced because he'd been in prison. His daughter Tiffany was living with her mom at the time. Tiffany was a good student, a cheerleader, and a band member, but she also had a lot of demands at home, like basically raising her younger brother. By the 10th grade, she had tired of all of this and was starting to hang with the wrong

drug-using crowd. When she discovered that her dad was ill and no one was around to help him, it was a win-win situation. She would go stay with him and she would escape her demanding life. Within that time she met the Sumners, Carol and Reggie. They could see that she had a kind heart and a helpful mindset. After all, she was supporting her dad in this time of need. Despite having serious health conditions of their own, they had also been helping out their friend Tiffany's dad in his struggles.

The Summers, in their extreme generosity, knew that Tiffany needed a car. So, they sold her their extra vehicle. Not only did they give her a sweet deal, but they also let her make payments on the car with no interest. During their conversations, the Sumners made the ultimate mistake of discussing their finances with the girl they thought they could trust. The one that was doing drugs. Tiffany returned to her South Carolina home after her father died months later, but she remembered that the Sumners extended an open invitation to their home anytime she'd like to come and stay.

She took them up on this directly after making the wrongest of wrong turns in her entire life. Hooking up with Michael Jackson at Myrtle Beach. And while hooking up with Michael Jackson was always a bad idea, this is not the same Michael Jackson you're thinking of. Apparently it's a pretty common name. This one didn't have a glittery glove and a couple of weird dance moves and also an affinity for children This one was a little different starting with the fact that he was white and this particular Michael Jackson Was even shadier than the one you already know and love

because when he robbed her he stole Her heart the girl was feeling me, but I wasn't feeling her. It wasn't like that When he robbed her, man. It was just like, yeah, I robbed her. But it wasn't like robbing her, you know what I'm saying? She had a little black box, had coke in it, weed in it, and a bunch of money in it. Said, I'm gonna pick the box up and walk off. You know what I'm saying? But I was in her room, she didn't let me in her room. So technically, I stole it, but I mean,

whatever is whatever. And I mean, you're not gonna call the police, man, you stole my dope, you know what I'm saying? You ain't gonna call and say no shit like that. I gave the coke away, gave the weed away, kept like 800, and I kept 800. But I messed up because she had my cell phone number

because me and her chilled earlier that day. And then she called me like, bring my box back. And I'm just, click, I ain't talking to that girl. I ain't even answering the phone, texting me. I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do this. I'm just, you don't even know me, you know? When was that though?

I mean, how long have you known Tiffany? Since May. Since May? And like I said, that shit started in a week later. She calls me, hey, I just wanna talk to you. I talked to her and then. This was Tiffany's dope you saw? It was Tiffany's box?

It was, yeah, it had coke in it. She thought she was a little drug dealer, man. She had a little bottle. It was all Tiffany's? Yeah, it was like half ounce of coke, some hydro weed and the cash. I gave, like I said, you can check my record. I got no drug problem, no drug record, no nothing.

I was never into drugs. Everybody keep asking me, man, y'all must have been on crack or something, man. I ain't never been into drugs, man. But no, I gave it to a boy and kept the money and that was it. And then like I said, a week later, man. You're hanging with it.

I know, that shit's crazy, isn't it? It's just, I mean, it's ironic as hell, but. And then like I said, a week later, man, I know that shit's crazy, innit? It's just, I mean, it's ironic as hell, but, and then like I said, man, when the whole thing started this, man, like I said, man, Tiffany knew these people, man. She knew they had money. True, Tiffany was making poor choices even before Michael Jackson came along.

But her infatuation with this stereotypical bad boy intensified matters. Things escalated fast. Whether she really wanted to take the money or was just trying to impress Michael, the result was the same. How do you get from that to let's go get their money? Cause when somebody comes up to me and says, look, there's over $100,000 at stake, you know what I'm saying? There's over $100,000. Supposedly they sold a townhouse for like 90 some thousand and you know, this, this and this.

And I'm just sitting there listening to this shit. And it's first in my mind, it's like, yeah, yeah, whatever. But then again, at the same time, you ain't just gonna steal somebody's credit card and jack no $90,000, you know what I'm saying? When I'm picking up a phone and say, hey, are you a credit card company gonna call and say, are you meaning to take this money off the,

you know what I'm saying, that's common sense. So it's like, nah, nah, nah, nah, I can do this perfect. You know what I'm saying? They know me, they trust me, this, this, and this. Hey, look, I'll do the credit card. Y'all get the card, I'm down with whatever. You know what I'm saying? I'll do the rest.

I got my computer, I'll do the rest. Y'all get the card, don't matter. I'll go to the ATM, I'll show my face. I mean, come on, that's bold. You know what I'm saying? That's fucking bold. You know what I'm saying? So it's like, y'all do whatever, I'll do the rest.

I mean, man, that's another thing. A murder, I'm not gonna show my face. Something. But don't you already know they're dead? Yes. Okay. But fear you go to the ATM? Yes.

Okay. You already know they're dead. No. You ain't running that ATM with them alive. By the time Michael and Tiffany put the Sumner's money into their own hands, the couple was indeed dead. But Michael and Tiffany weren't the only ones who benefited.

Two other players were in the mix, Bruce Nixon and Alan Wade. Alan Wade was 18 years old and living with his mom, who was doing the best she could to keep him out of trouble. Here she talks about a call she received from middle school when he was just a preteen. He never got over me leaving his dad. He never got over his dad leaving him. He had missed so much school, even though I was dropping him off in the morning, that I either had to withdraw him from school or I was going to end up in jail. That's what they told me. So I withdrew him from school in the eighth grade.

A separate phone call resulted in even more dire consequences. They said he had said he was going to commit suicide. I drove out there immediately and I talked to one of the counselors or a teacher or somebody and the police were there. They were chasing him through the neighborhood because he had left the school grounds and when they finally found him, they Baker acted him. The Baker Act is a law that allows parents or authorities to place children in psychiatric facilities if they present harm to themselves or others.

Coming from South Florida, I know all about the Baker Act. I know he thinks I didn't love him. I tried. I mean, I love him. He doesn't understand that I depended on him to be the strong one, and that was wrong of me. I threatened to kick him out, never dreaming that he would go.

I was thinking, OK, I threatened to kick him out. He's going to say, I'm sorry, Mommy. I'm sorry. I'll behave, I'll behave. I did not want him to leave, but he did. Alan's dad wasn't in the picture, and now his mom had cancer. Because she had to have chemotherapy and radiation, and my heart goes out to all of you

who are listening right now and have cancer some of you are in the audience right now listening to this Carol I'm thinking about you the other Carol shout out stay healthy anyway yeah cancer's a bitch but because she had to go through all this shit the chemotherapy the radiation the just endless hospital visits Alan left and was taken in by a friend of his mother until she was able to be stronger and take care of him. He was only 15 at the time. Unfortunately, this woman who took care of Alan when he was 15. She wasn't financially capable of taking care of him. So she asked for compensation. Embarrassed, Alan's mom didn't want to pay for someone to take care of

her son. According to her, she took him back because she didn't know what else to do. He was her baby. A year later, he met 23-year-old jobless Michael Jackson and started constantly hanging out with him, eventually moving into an apartment with Michael. Michael seemed to be an intelligent kind of guy, friendly when I first met him, just talkative and just kind of on the showy side, you know, like he had a big personality. He was very confident. And I thought, well, you know, he's a little cocky, but you know, he's a boy. It was in the parking lot. This

is after I had learned about Michael's real personality. I was driving through the parking lot coming home and I saw him sitting there on the back of a car. And I said, Michael, do you know where Alan's at? And he proceeded to tell me that that was none of my business. He was taking care of Alan and I just leave Alan alone. He's my concern now. And I said, is that a stolen car you're sitting on? And he got right up in my face in the

window and threatened me that you just stay out of my business and just just go on if you don't want anything to happen to Alan. Alan's mom knew immediately that Michael was bad news. Moms know these sort of things, instinctually. So she started apartment hunting for her and Alan and managed to find a two-bedroom place that she could barely afford. When they moved in, she begged Alan not to tell Michael where they were living. And I had told him, I said, I don't want Michael to know where I'm at

because I was afraid of Michael because of, he threatened me and I was afraid if I got in the middle of something, he would harm Alan. And Michael came to my apartment and I just exploded on him. I just went off on this boy, and he sat there and looked me stone-faced in the eye the whole time I was yelling at him

with this stupid smirk on his face. He had no regard for my feelings, for Alan's feelings, for anybody. And he finally just, when I finally stopped, he got up and just said, I don't care what you think, and he walked away. There was one more character in this gang of robbers. It was 18-year-old Bruce Dixon.

Bruce was a follower, an NPC if you will, someone with his own set of troubles and empty family life. Bruce and Alan were longtime friends and in fact he would later state that he viewed Alan's mom as his own. But Bruce was about to be a young dad and was stressed over not being able to provide a life for his child Until he was introduced to Michael Jackson and Tiffany Michael and Tiffany were in Jacksonville partying together when the group met each other Tiffany would be heading back to South Carolina, but the couple wanted one more night in Florida heading back to South Carolina, but the couple wanted one more night in Florida.

The four came up with a plan to rob the Sumners, and it would start with Tiffany and Michael spending a night or two with them. She still needed to sign papers for the car title, and this would be a way to introduce them to her boyfriend and, of course, get a firsthand-hand view of the home, the one they intended to rob. On the evening of July 8th, Michael Jackson convinced Bruce, who just turned 18, to canvas the Sumner neighborhood for four shovels, one for each of the robbers. They all took part in digging a four-by-six-foot hole in the woods nearby, and then returned to the Sumner home to collect.

Their accounts differed from one another in an effort to save their own lives, but the bare truth was that the Sumners were thrown into that hole. One by one, the teens and young adults were interviewed, but not one confessed. I was away through everything that was going on. Tell me what happened. What do you mean? I saw you at the house. I know you were at the house. What happened when you left the house? When I left the house? Yeah. You said you were in the car waiting.

And they called you to come around. That's when I followed them out to the spot where they were running out with words. Who did you follow out with words? car with Bruce. Who was the last one? I was with Bruce. And Mike, or David, or Wanda, was in the car with you. You were driving and he was in the passenger seat. So where's the

where's Reggie and Carol at that point? Both of them in the trunk. Do you know if they were alive at that time? I don't even know. No one else was at that spot. Let's be very clear here. Carol and Reggie were alive in the trunk of that car Their mouths were duct-taped and they were embracing each other crying Wondering how a girl they treated like their own daughter

could have done this to them I want you to close your eyes and Picture yourself in that situation What about when we left when he left the house? picture yourself in that situation. But Mike was in the car at different points. Not in Lincoln? Not in Lincoln? Mm-hmm. Well, when they got rid of the body, they ought to have tried back out. So Mike would have been in Lincoln, yeah.

They were down on the beach. How did Mike get back from where they were? They drove back out. Then Mike took the car with him. Right. But did you drive Mike back to you? Mike came walking out first, and then they came out with the car.

Because Mike, I guess, had to leave them because it was, or whatever. I don't exactly know how that happened, but Mike came walking out first. And then they came out with the car. At any point, did they talk about Hurtman, Reggie, or Carol concerning you? Uh-uh.

They didn't say nothing like that in front of me. When did you first hear them talk about duct tape or rap? Not when they were in the house talking about what they were doing. I was out when I turned over the radio today. I just hit the button. And they were saying something like, what is duct tape or something like that?

You know, saying to, I guess, keep them together or whatever. When you left the Sunder's house, said Mike was with you. And they, Alan's driving Bruce's Pesky seat in Ernie Wink. Did you follow on them? Mm-hmm. OK. You guys talking on Mm-hmm. OK. You guys talking on the phone back and forth at that point?

Well, my word. My word talking to them. I mean, I was just, you know, saying stuff just kind of like, I don't know, my old little world behind them, you know what I'm saying? What are you thinking at this point? Well, you can get all this stuff, and you got thunders in the trunk of the car in front of you.

I thought, I mean, I don't even know. I was freaking out. I was kind of freaking out. You know what I'm saying? Not trying to be totally obvious about it, you know what I'm saying? But at the same time, one, you know, this is not a tip that I knew.

You know what I'm saying? This is not. You guys talked about robbery, though. I mean, you were going to go get the stuff. But you didn't. Can you count on the end result there? Is that pretty much? I don't wanna put words in your mouth, okay?

But I mean, that's pretty much, you were gonna go get your stuff. That was it? Where it was supposed to end? Mm-hmm. That was what it was supposed to have been. Tiffany was a liar, and she knew exactly how to manipulate others.

The scheme began with the exploitation of two elderly souls, kind friends who had stood by her father's side during his darkest hours. Despite dealing with their own serious problems, they were happy to give a helping hand, simply because they were happy and wanted to give back. Their altruism reached beyond their own relatives, extending directly to Tiffany's father and Tiffany herself. Yet, beneath the pretense of Tiffany's gratitude lurked a treacherous plot that she had masterfully orchestrated. She understood the horrible beginning and the inevitable conclusion.

Next, Michael was brought to the station after waiting his turn in jail. Michael, the oldest, may or may not have been the sharpest of the four, but he sure thought he was. He thought he was so smart, in fact, that he believed he'd be able to wiggle out of previous incriminating statements and somehow bargain himself out of life in prison. Plain and simple bluntly, what do I gotta do? What do I gotta say? I don't care what I gotta write, say, do, point, this, this, and this. My biggest thing, man, is I'm trying to push this thing a little bit faster. If I gotta do this, this, and this, then I'm trying to go home. Probably, you know, start by telling the truth and show some sort of remorse about what happened.

So, there ain't no way to to like, get a lesser charge. You know what I'm saying? Like, cause I already know. What do you mean, like petty theft or something? No, no, no, cause I already know. Y'all got all of us on the same indictment. That right there is pushing for conspiracy. How you saying?

All of us. Tell me something about Alan, Bruce, or Tiffany that you think we don't know. Shit, I don't know what y'all don't know. Well, start at the beginning then. Murder, I want to know what y'all don't know. Well, it started at the beginning, then. Murder on Robby Kinnabit. My biggest thing, how do y'all charge me? It sounds really good and all, except for, I think you told us something about, uh, you tell us something about the graves.

Graves? For the, the hole. Yeah. No problem with that. Graves. For the hole. Yeah. You have a problem with that? The hole. You mean about the hole? You told us they were pre-dug.

You told us that the hole was pre-dug. You told us it was to scare them, and then you told us you held the flashlight while they shoved the dirt onto it. No, I don't even know. I said I'm out of shit that night. You told the truth that night. You hoped that would be enough to get you out of there that night because you didn't have direct involvement in your mind in dealing with any of this.

OK? But they ain't no damn way. You got dropped off somewhere else and you were you were not even there. You were smoking with somebody else while everybody else just disappeared, took care of all this stuff that you had no idea about. No, everybody disappeared, Tiffany was there. Tiffany was there with me and Jacob. Matter of fact. It is physically impossible to dig that hole,

for two people to dig that hole in that amount of time span. It's not gonna happen. It can't happen. You'd have had to have had a backhoe. Yeah. Cause we had to have a backhoe. To get him out. You can't even say that, cause I mean, I don't know what the hole looked like.

I didn't see Marines man digging six by six man in 20 minutes. I mean 20. Just because mentally. You know what I'm saying? Are you Tiffany, Alan or Bruce Marines? Oh, nah. Okay, y'all probably ain't digging a little six by six. And ain't digging that deep hole. Michael was shameless. forensics run everything man damn that i ain't bury no people i ain't touch no people michael was shameless trying every angle he could think of to escape or minimize charges

next he attempted the old quid pro quo remember that quid pro quo we all learned what that meant at the same time i think i give you give you something, you give me something back. You know, politics. He began telling the detectives that he knew the whereabouts of another criminal they were after, and he would tell them his secret. Ooh. I know where to do that right now.

I don't know anything about that. No, I mean, if y'all can look it up, I mean, it'll come back accurate. He's been in the Mosin-Water for a minute now. I mean, not only that, it's just, I'm trying to figure out something, man, where I can get a bond, something. I can tell you right now.

I ain't trying to go nowhere, I mean. I won't be straight up with you, okay, because we haven't, we've been pretty much straight up from the get-go. You ain't getting a bond, okay? That ain't gonna happen. I'm not gonna get a bond. Okay.

Because this is a capital murder, okay? And capital murder offense has a no bond in the state of Florida. You're not getting out, okay? There's no opportunity whatsoever. I mean, you can tell me right now where Hoffa's buried, who helped, you know, whoever shoot Kennedy, it's not gonna matter. You're not gonna get out, okay? Finally after hours of arguing his case, Michael gave the detective some linear information,

but he still blamed everyone but himself. So anyway, it's already been laid out. Tiffany gonna go in the house, she gonna be like, look, I'm gonna go in there. I'm gonna get them all comfortable, relaxed. They gonna feel normal. I'm in here. There ain't gonna be no worries. Next thing you know, y'all gonna come up,

bam, bam, bam, bam. Hey, can I use the telephone? Come over to use the telephone and then, let me get that. You know what I'm saying? Next thing I know, I'm just, you know what I'm saying? Well, Tiffany's in the house? What do you mean?

No, this was the plan now. This ain't what happened. Okay, okay. This was the plan. Okay. Okay. I'm just sitting there like, damn, that shit sound, that shit sound like it'll work, you know what I'm saying?

And then, you're right, in my mind, I'm sitting there thinking, I'm about to get paid off of this shit, you know what I'm saying? These fools gonna be dumbasses, and I'm gonna get some money out of this, you know what I'm saying? Sure. Hey, I might as well go for it, you know?

I'd be a fool not to. I mean, I'm damn near clean. I'm not putting my hands on nothing, but then again, I'm gonna get some money out of there, you know what I'm saying? Sure. I might as well go for it, you know? I'd be a fool not to. I mean, I'm damn near clean. I'm not putting my hands on nothing, but then again, I'm sitting there thinking, I still don't know why I just walked up to the ATM machine. Oh yeah, I know it. No, actually I don't. I'm getting it for the money.

Nah, but still at the same time, why am I gonna walk up face showing? You know what I'm saying? I still run that in my head. That's why I said, man, it was like, some of this shit was retarded, man. So y'all got a plan. So, okay, yeah, okay.

How did y'all act on the plan? Nah, I'ma tell you that now. The night of the plan is supposed to unfold. We go all the way to these people's house. You know what I'm saying? We go to their house. All four of y'all in the Mazda. Yeah, all four of us in the Mazda.

Drop me off in the park. I don't wanna be nowhere near this house. I don't wanna see shit. You just heard him say that the other three in the group dropped him off in the park. I don't wanna be nowhere near this house. I don't wanna see shit. You just heard him say that the other three in the group dropped him off at the park and he wasn't anywhere near the house. He was claiming that he was basically just given the ATM card after the Summoners were robbed and killed for some reason.

Yeah, that really makes sense. Sure. Does anybody buy this shit? Let me explain something to you. Okay by law in Florida If and this is really far-fetched if because we've talked pretty in pretty good detail about what happened and everything else in the past Okay if nothing else happened other than what you told us that you were there and You said Alan and Bruce did all this stuff but you were there and you had knowledge of it you can be charged with everything you're just as guilty as they are.

What if I wasn't there though? What if I just you know knew about it? That's the thing. What if I actually was not there I just kind of knew about it when I was saying that I was then I'm telling you this this and that so you know I'm saying I'm hoping I can go home right there. That sounds really good and all except for I think you told us something about I'm telling you this, this, and that. So, you know what I'm saying? I'm hoping I can go home right there. It sounds really good and all, except for, I think you told us something about, you tell us something about the graves.

Graves? Or the, the hole. Yeah. Yeah, no problem with that. Well, what about the hole? You told us they were pre-dug. You told us that the hole was pre-dug. You told us it was to scare them. And then you told us you held the flashlight while they shoved dirt onto it.

Oh, I don't even remember. I said I had a shit that night. You told the truth that night. You hoped that would be enough to get you out of there that night because you didn't have direct involvement in your mind in dealing with any of this. Okay? But there ain't no damn way. You got dropped off somewhere else and you were not even there. You were smoking with somebody else while everybody else just disappeared and took care

of all this stuff that you had no idea about. Everybody disappeared. Tiffany was there. Tiffany was there with me and Jacob. Matter of fact. It is physically impossible to dig that hole, for two people to dig that hole in that amount of time span. It's not gonna happen.

During the interview with Michael, he had already said some things that placed him at the hole. For instance, saying that Carol and Reggie managed to get the duct tape off their mouths and hands while they were in the trunk, like admitting that he heard them praying together and confessing their love to each other, and like coldly telling how Carol was moaning when they put her in the hole, she was moaning because she and Reggie were buried alive.

They died by inhaling the dirt from their early grave. After 38 years, the Sumners rekindled their high school romance. Carol had already suffered in an abusive marriage that ended in her husband shooting her in the face and then killing himself. Currently, Carol and Reggie both had significant health issues that they were struggling with. Yet, they were living their dream, a life together in sunny Florida. When their good friend fell ill, they nursed him in his dying days and rewarded his daughter for her help with their altruism and ultimately their lives. On July 8, 2005, Tiffany and three male acquaintances robbed the Subners when two of them entered the home

and bound them with tape while they pointed a realistic looking toy gun at them. Carol and Reggie both pleaded, saying they would give the intruders all the money they had. Michael and Tiffany waited in a car outside because Michael had given the order that he didn't want the Sumners to see his or Tiffany's face. According to Michael, he was going to inject them with a lethal dose of medicine and wait until they died to bury them. But that is not what happened. The couple was alive when the dirt was piled on top of them.

Think for just a second of the horror of that. The sounds you would hear. And then silence and darkness. By the time Michael's last interview occurred, it was too late for him. Tiffany and Alan weren't saying where the bodies were, but Bruce Nixon was. Bruce was terrified. Just tell us where they're at, okay? Let's just tell us where they're at. If you want to start looking at that tell us. I'm making a mistake right now. I can't. You're old enough to make that decision for yourself, Bruce. I'm not.

I know. I can't do that for you, man. I'm telling you, I'm not allowed to make that decision for you. OK? Now, you want me to be straight up, that's straight up. I've got to be straight up with you, too. We need to know where those bodies are. If you don't want to tell us anything else, tell us where those bodies are.

I want to tell y'all. I'm just... Bruce, look at me. I want to tell y'all. Bruce, I'm looking at this. When I walked in here, I saw this. It's killing you, man. I know it is, but... I can't be in you, man. I know it is. I'm gonna kill me in prison, too.

If you don't want to tell us anything else, just tell us where these folks are at, Bruce. I'm going straight to prison. Bruce, just tell us where these folks are at, Bruce. I'm gonna tell you, I'm gonna get handcuffed, and I'm gonna be here forever. I'm not gonna get to see my baby or nothing. I'm not gonna get to finish school,

and I'm not gonna get to see my brother. nothing. I'm not gonna get to finish school. I'm not gonna get to see my brother. We can't change what's happening, Bruce. I didn't kill him. I didn't kill him. That's what we need. We've asked for a truth. We've asked you to be honest about the accused. I'll tell you, I'll prove truth.

You tell me lies, I can't prove lies. You promised me you'd be here by the time I go through it. I what? You promised you'd write it on the paper, tell me. I'll tell you right now to your face. I'll walk you through this whole thing. This whole thing, and you'll be on my side if I tell you the truth.

I'm right here with you, man. It breaks my heart to be in here, that you're going through all this, but I'll be right here. If nobody would be right here with you, I'll be here. All right? Can you draw better or can you tell us? I know you're kind of upset.

All right. Okay, hold on, just get me a cigarette. Take your time. I'll tell you, but this is what happened. OK. All right. Alan told me that we were going to rob some people and own them with some money and stuff. Did he know these people?

They all knew him, and carrying the house and stuff. OK. Go ahead. And I needed money because I had a family. I had nobody. I had nobody. So I told my uncle, and we went to the house. We were down playing our girl out there, and we were going to go to the house and I was going to go to the house and we were just going to tell them for money and

stuff and get their ATM cards and get all the numbers and stuff. So we were all scared if he'd have to take us out of our mouth or something. What's that? If he'd take us out of our mouth or our eyes. And they would tell us, I mean they would tell us all of their bank number and nothing. But that dude, whatever his name, Michael Salmono, his name, told us to take him up and put him in the trunk on the Lincoln. He never said we were going to kill him. He never said I'd promise. He never said that. He told us we were going to bring him out there. Where that was, they had a hole down there, Nick. And then he said that he was just

going to scare them into telling them the numbers. And then when he was doing it, I walked away to a car that owned the RX-8. And I was walking up there. And then about 30 minutes later they walked back and asked where they were and they said they took care of them. Where were y'all at Bruce? I'll be there the whole time. Those moments in the interview were particularly emotional.

Not just because young Bruce Nixon was terrified and heading for a death sentence or lifetime in prison, but because the detective had a son the same age as Bruce. When he saw the boy trembling and crying, he moved his chair a little closer, threw his arms around him, and held him for what seemed like a very, very long time. During a 2007 week-long trial, Tiffany Cole received a guilty verdict for first-degree murder. The jury's vote, 9-33 recommended the death penalty after seeing incriminating evidence such as photographs capturing Tiffany and the two co-defendants reveling in a limousine, toasting with champagne and clutching wads of cash. The Sumners' cash.

The Sumners cash. Five months later, a judge issued dual death sentences for the murders, accompanied by a life sentence for the kidnappings. Alan Wade and Michael Jackson also received death sentences. But Bruce Nixon, because he cooperated with law enforcement, because he talked and he was guilty and he had something to offer, he got off with a little less. Put it that way. Bruce had taken law enforcement to the locations where the bodies were buried and testified against the others. He entered a guilty plea for second-degree murder, earning him a 45-year prison sentence

instead of life. But fate would intervene ten years later. It was Tiffany Cole who was the familiar face that Carol and Reggie Sumner invited into their home in July of 2005. She and two other friends used that friendship to plan their crime, asking for a place to stay during a long trip. News for Jax brought updates to the community every step of the way. A neighbor tells family that she remembers seeing a strange car come and go from the Sumner's house and family says that they think that Carol and Reggie probably were just being nice, allowing the group to stay overnight so they didn't have to make the trip to and from Charleston all in one day. The Sumner's bodies were found days later in a shallow grave in

Charlton County, Georgia. They had been buried alive. Evidence technicians showing the shovels and crime scene photos at trial. The three were convicted in separate trials. Tiffany Cole always pleaded to have her life spared at her sentencing hearing. Cole begged for a life sentence so she could help others. Ultimately that hearing ended in tears for Cole. She was sentenced to death in a nine to three decision, something that's now unconstitutional after a Supreme Court ruling last year that found death penalty decisions need to be unanimous. Now Cole will get a new sentencing hearing and it's likely the two others who were convicted in the murders of At the re-sentencing, Alan Wade was given life due to mitigating circumstances newly

introduced. But Michael Jackson was again sentenced to death with a unanimous vote. At the end of the road, as we all eventually will turn back and look behind us, we'll be able to finally see how some of the winding and narrow detours came back together on a straight, wide highway to our destination. We can make sense of the map. Sometimes. Carol and Reggie experienced some treacherous turns, but they found each other through it all. They, in a way, were both the luckiest people on earth and the unluckiest. That's how life is. That's

how fate works in unpredictable ways. Yet the same fate that reunited these lovers for a second chance also brought with it tormented figures from their past. With their own darkness and their own unresolved issues. Fate was about to step in yet again and claim the lives of the killers as well. But yet another turn at the last second occurred and their lives were spared. None of it really makes any sense. Sometimes life doesn't make any sense. Carol and Reggie may have met a dead end, so to speak, But at least they were able to go out knowing they tried to do some good in the world they tried and

Life's ultimate surprise was allowing them one final embrace with each other in their last moments on earth their last moments on Earth. That does it for another one. Thank you so much for joining us. If you like the show, Sword and Scale Television is available for you right now. There's seven episodes available and many more coming soon. We're going to start doing two a month pretty soon. So great time to sign up. Swordandscale.com. Stay safe. Thanks for watching!