Sword and Scale - Episode 307

Episode Date: July 17, 2025

When Katelyn Markham vanished without a trace, investigators were left chasing shadows. A registered sex offender. A troubled coworker. A longtime fiancé with too many explanations. But as leads faded and the case grew cold, the real truth remained buried - until, 12 years later, a forgotten clue cracked the mystery wide open. Who was responsible for Katelyn’s fate? And why did it take more than a decade to bring them to justice?

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Sword and Scale contains adult themes and violence and is not intended for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised. Stop it! It was stop it! In a name or a word. Stop it! And then I heard the... That's it. And then... And that went on for like, maybe 10-15 seconds. It was weird. Okay. It definitely caught my attention. And after that, it was silent. All right, bozos, I'm back. That's my new word. I'm adopting it. This is episode 307. Jesus Christ, how many episodes do we need? Of sword and scale. A show that reveals that the worst monsters are real. Let's jazzercise. Hybrid, plug-in hybrid, electric, yet the power of choice with Toyota, Ireland's best-selling car brand.

With power up boosters of up to 3,000 euro and flexible payment options on models including the all-electric BZ4X, order now for immediate delivery at your Toyota dealer. Official car partner of the Komogi Association, GAA, GPA. Toyota. Built for a better world. T's and C's apply. Best-selling claim based on latest figures. It was just starting to get warm again in Cedar Creek, Indiana. With the April weather bringing sunny days, spring was in full effect. Near Cedar Creek, Andy Hicks and his wife Margaret were out hunting for scrap metal. They liked to look for scrap metal to sell to local recyclers for a few

extra bucks. That day Andy and his wife were going to a spot they'd been to before that only locals knew about. A narrow dirt path led to a hidden dump site concealed by dense vegetation. Andy and his wife stopped the car, got out, and waded through the tall grass to the dump site. The site was down a slight embankment, obscured from the view of the road. Just like any other time, they started sifting through the rubbish looking for the glint of metal. But this time, they would find so much more. I was looking at it, realized what it was, I hung it in a little tree right here next to where we found it. Okay, and then when we went and called the police, they transferred us to the DNR. And DNR's asked me, well, what makes you sure it's a human jawbone?

I said, well, by the way, I've seen every kind of animal bones there is, and this is Jake, just like mine, it's got all the damn teeth. this is Jake just like mine it's got all the damn teeth. A chill ran down Andy's back when he found a human jawbone amongst the scattered trash. He was partially in disbelief but decided to hang it on the branch of a tree to mark the location where he found it so it could be spotted later. He called the police but they didn't seem to believe him. I mean there's a lot of gullible people out there listening to true crime podcasts, so a lot of false reports come in all the time.

The dispatcher transferred Andy to the DNR or Department of Natural Resources. They were basically game wardens, wilderness cops, not criminal investigators. We were going to take a picture of it. And then we sat down there and my wife was poking around and we found this plastic bag. She poked it with a stick and it tore it open on the front. And there was her skull and her hair. They wanted to take a picture of the jawbone and send it to the police so that they would believe them, that it wasn't just an animal bone.

But they stumbled upon something unmistakably human. The skull was in a Kroger grocery bag, a brown plastic grocery bag. Andy, his wife, and the police were now convinced they had found human remains. The remains were only bones, a little hair, and tattered clothing, all but gone. It was obvious to Andy that these bones had been placed there. Somebody placed her there about six feet from the road and covered her up with flesh trash. The remains were only six feet from the road

and close to two houses, but the area was heavily wooded and the site was down an embankment. There was no way the remains could have been spotted unless you were right on top of them. The state of the remains suggested that the bones had been there for quite a while, but they weren't buried. They were just kind of covered in trash. Authorities would later wonder

if the remains were simply washed from one location to another by the waters of a nearby creek. But Andy knew better. Andy It was deliberately done because that water, I mean, you know, that water's been that high, but it's been 10 years since that water's been that high. I mean, there's no way that water gets that high that would have put her there. And he was shocked by both what he found and the amount of time it took police to arrive. Even with the report of a human skull, it took authorities over three hours to get there.

When the cops got there, they just, you know, they're D.R. cops, everybody. When they got there, they just looked over the bank. I showed them where it was at. The remains were wrapped in black plastic sheeting except for the head, which was in a grocery bag. The bones showed signs of animal disturbance and were incomplete. Small bones, like fingers, were likely carried off by animals. With the remains verified as human, the Indiana State Police took over the investigation. Troopers reviewed missing persons cases and found similarities between the remains and a woman who went missing in Fairfield, Ohio nearly two years earlier, 21 year old Kaitlyn Markham.

Kaitlyn had a distinctive crooked canine tooth and a molar with a crown. The coroner would estimate the time of death as the second or third week of August 2011, but could not determine the cause of death because of decomposition. They did find three cuts on the left wrist bone, indicating a possible attempt at dismemberment. The discovery of Caitlin's remains, 36 miles from her last known location across state lines, turned her missing persons case into a homicide investigation. One year and eight months earlier,

Caitlin and her fiance, John Carter, were preparing for the next stage of their lives. Caitlin was on the verge of graduating from the Art Institute of Cincinnati with a degree in graphic design, and they were planning to move away from Fairfield to Colorado. But on August 12, 2011, in the midst of exams, Caitlin just needed to relax a bit. On August 12th, 2011, in the midst of exams, Caitlin just needed to relax a bit.

She and John went to the Sacred Heart Festival, an annual festival held by the Catholic Church nearby. For a moment, they were carefree, unaware of the tragedy that lay ahead. I remember that we went to the festival and I remember that we sat and ate, and I vaguely remember going and went to the festival and I remember that we sat and ate and I vaguely remember going and sitting at the hill.

Festivals were special places for Kaitlyn and John. When they started dating in high school, going to the local fairs and festivals was a regular date night. On this night, John wanted to buy raffle tickets for a chance to win $10,000. It was like one of the first places we really started hanging out was at the fair. This was around the time that we started hanging out. And you know, so we just, we always went there. Kaitlin and John enjoyed the sights and sounds of the festival.

They listened to some music and ate some horribly bad-for-you fried food. I like me a nice roasted corn on the cob. How about you? Not a big elephant ear guy. But I do enjoy one on occasion. But a storm was brewing on the horizon, and they walked back to Caitlin's house well before the end of the festival at midnight.

The following night, August 13th, Caitlin was hard at work on her final. John invited a friend over, Bradley Von Bargen, to discuss putting a trailer hitch on his car for their upcoming move to Colorado. I mean, I used to be a mechanic. I get people hitting me up with car questions all the time and it was actually about putting a hitch to his car and You know, so like I ended up calling him like wait, what are you trying to do? What are you towing? And he's like well, I'm trying to get like a u-haul to attach to my car because here's the big news

We're thinking about moving to Colorado Bradley had known Caitlin for years, but only knew John through her. They had all been friends hanging out occasionally, but work and life had caused Bradley to lose touch. So when John invited him over to catch up, Bradley went right after work. We ended up talking more about them going to Colorado than anything.

John made the comment about like, you know, pushing his comfort zone. He even said like, well, how are you guys going to plan it? Do you have any place in mind? He was like, and his response was joking and laughingly, he said, it's like, I really like to just wing it. And I said this, I was like, dude, that's funny because that's how I would probably handle the situation. No planning, just go for it. And he's like, but, Caitlin, on the other hand,

likes to have everything planned out. This is where it's going, this is where we'll be. The three talked for over an hour about life and about moving to Colorado. But Bradley noticed Caitlin was being a little distant. She wasn't her bubbly, usual self, you know? John explained that she was working on a school project, but it still seemed odd to Bradley. After a while, he announced that he was leaving.

And I'm like, I even have to say bye to Caitlin. It's like almost like she didn't even say bye to me. Like I had to almost initiate any interaction with her. he was leaving. Bradley walked outside and got into his car, but couldn't shake Caitlin's odd behavior. What was going on? John stayed for another hour before getting bored and leaving for a party. He said good night to Caitlin and turned to leave. On the way out, he offered to take a bag of her old financial documents and destroy them. She'd been keeping it next to the door to remind herself. She thanked him and he left.

She knew that I was going to go to Jake's because I had talked to Joey a little bit beforehand, I think, at some point. And then I had called Joey again and said, hey, what are you doing? He's like, I'm at Jake's. I was like, OK, I'll meet you over there. John left Caitlin's townhome and drove to his friend's house, which was not far away. There he met several of his friends around a backyard fire. They dumped the bag of documents in the fire and texted Kaitlyn that the job was done,

but after being at the party for a while, John wasn't really enjoying himself. I have someone who's like, why aren't you talking as much as you usually do? I was like, I don't know, I guess I'm hungry. So I tried to get food and then I stayed for a little longer after I ate and I was like, yeah, I'm just going to go home. John went to his parents house where he lived. Grabbed a bite to eat and went to his room to watch a couple of episodes of his favorite TV show, White Collar. Never heard of that one. Sounds stupid. He texted Kaitlyn good morning at 4 a.m. before he went to sleep. The next day he woke up around noon and let his dog out and started getting ready for a shift at Papa John's. He didn't even notice that Kaitlyn hadn't responded to his 4 a.m. text until he got to work.

Then he texted her again, but still didn't get a response. After like the second message I started feeling like, oh no. And then on top of the excedrin, it's like making me shake. And I'm like, oh god. You know, it just really freaked me out. Don was immediately worried. He asked his shift supervisor to let him check on her. Don delivered a couple of pizzas on the way.

And when he got to her apartment, he saw something that made his stomach sink. Her car in the parking lot. If she's not responding she's at work. Okay. And if she's at work then her car's not there. I walked in and you know I just assumed she'd be upstairs so I walked in and I ran upstairs and then as soon as I realized she wasn't there I was like maybe she's somewhere else in the house. So I'm just screaming to find out if she's somewhere else. He checked every room.

Kaitlyn was nowhere to be found. Her dog Murphy was locked in her bedroom, which was odd because Kaitlyn always put him in the downstairs bathroom when she left. Hi, my name is John Carter. bathroom when she left. Her car is still there. Her purse is still... Is there an address? Like a... Yeah, 5214 Doorshire Drive. Like, I've been trying to get ahold of her and I decided to go by her house to see if she was okay. And her car was still there.

She would be at work right now with her car. Which is why I'm like really freaking out. Where was she at midnight last night? She was at her house. She was going to bed. And I've been with her for six years. She's not receiving, you know. She was at her house. She was going to bed and I've been with her for six years She's not receiving, you know, she doesn't Okay, and you guys didn't have an argument or anything?

Not at all. The only thing that's not there is her cell phone which is positive, but she's not answering it so I'm gonna say her heart festival is going on right up the street and there's a lot of questionable people there and it's just kind of, I'm sorry. John Carter called 911. His voice shaky and worried. Caitlin was missing, but everything else, her purse, wallet, her car keys, laptop, even her dog was still there. It was like she had just disappeared without a trace,

leaving her life hanging. That 911 call kicked off an investigation, but it didn't lead to any answers. Days turned into weeks, and weeks dragged on into months. Eventually, the case went cold. By the time Andy Hicks and his wife found a skull on an Indiana dump site, Caitlin had been missing for almost two years. And even then, the real story was still buried. It wasn't until 12 years later that investigators finally figured out what happened to Caitlin Marco. 12 long years before they caught up with the guy they suspected had been hiding in plain sight all along. Almost two years after she disappeared without a trace, Kaitlyn Markham's skeletonized remains were found 36 miles away across state lines in Indiana.

Her bones were found under some trash in an illegal dump site in a rural part of the state. The local authorities didn't seem to take it all too seriously until the remains were identified as Katelyn's. Then the Indiana State Police or ISP. I know a lot of these places in Indiana have acronyms that are actually something else for everyone else like ISP, DNR, but in this case ISP means Indiana State Police, not Internet Service Provider. The ISP took over and cooperated with the Fairfield PD. While the case had seemingly stalled,

the Fairfield PD had never stopped investigating. Regardless, they hadn't really gotten anywhere, so the ISP started at the very beginning and got to know who Caitlin really was. 21 years before she went missing, Caitlin's parents, David and Sherry, were desperately trying to have a baby. Caitlin, not biological? Correct. A doctor?

A private adoption. It was actually Sherry's cousin. Okay. So was this something pre-arranged before? Yeah, she got pregnant. Okay, and was gonna get the Child up for adoption. Okay. She had it from her parents and said really happy pretty fast, right? We've been trying to have kids with no luck. Okay, and then when we found out that she was pregnant she was not gonna terminate the baby. So I guess her mom suggested it. Caitlin's biological grandmother suggested it. Worked out pretty good. Yeah. So.

Caitlin's biological mother was Sherry's cousin. But she was very young, too young to raise a baby. So Sherry and David adopted Caitlin and finally had a child of their own. The Markhams loved their new baby girl and fostered all her interests. But the happiness the family shared would soon spoil. What happened between you and Sherry? What would what would you blame the failure of the marriage on? Can I be blunt? Sure. She's a lazy piece of shit. What would you blame the failure of the marriage on? Can I be blunt? Sure.

She's a lazy piece of shit. Really? Yeah, she stopped doing everything. I mean, just staying bad and shopped QVC. Really? Yeah, didn't do shit. I was doing everything. I was doing everything for the kids.

That actually, Caitlin was the one that prompted me to move out. One actually, Caitlin was the one that prompted me to move out. She one day when she was 16, she said, why do you put up with this shit, Dad? I said, because you and the girls. She goes, well, I'm going with you. So she moved out with me.

And about three months later, Ali moved in with me. Ali lived with me for the most part. Okay. At 16, she saw her parents' marriage fall apart. She blamed her mother and grew closer to her father. During these formative years, her unique personality started to show. She became an outspoken, audacious teen with her own opinions and her own style. That's when she met John Carter.

Back then, they were two peas in a pod. They were both very gothic. They were very hippie. They were very grungy. And they're very loud and outspoken. And that's what drew them together. When I met him, I'm like, of course they're perfect for each other.

They were best friends. Like some her age, she chose to express herself by bucking social norms. She wore dark eyeliner like goth kids and layered mismatched clothing like grunge kids. She dyed her hair all sorts of colors. When she met John, they just clicked. They had that similar, you know, alternative Bohemian thing going on, and they'd been together ever since. They dated all through high school, and after graduation,

Kaitlyn pursued a degree in art and enrolled in the Art Institute of Ohio. Getting a degree and pursuing a career in art was her main focus, but somehow she juggled all that with two part time jobs. She got one job at the campus bookstore where she earned the trust of her manager. She was excellent. I mean, she was just one of the best stewards I ever had. She would do anything for you. She could run that store by herself. And that's why I loved having her there because I could trust her and that she would take care of any issues that would come up and she could open the store or close the store but I had total trust in her. She got another

job at David's Bridal where she made an impression on all of her co-workers. People ask me all the time like was Caitlin weird you know before Caitlin was a weird individual as that's her personality. She was bubbly, she liked colored hair, she wore a yellow velvet suit jacket with red pants. I mean, the girl, she loved her personality. As I got to know her, I really wanted to be her friend because she was at that time, like one of the coolest people I think I'd ever met. And she was just like effortlessly cool.

And she was like kind of artistic and she was just like effortlessly cool and she was like kind of artistic and she was funny and like I wanted to be her friend. Kaitlyn made friends with everyone everywhere she went. At David's Bridal even the older women were impressed with her talent and ambition and she appreciated their experienced guidance. She was really focused on getting her art career. She wasn't sure if she wanted to be a full-time artist versus teaching art or what exactly she was going to focus on in art. So we talked about that a lot because she was excited about art, art, art. Art was her focus. Art was her whole life. She worked two part-time jobs while going to school. It was hard, but she did it and got an associate's degree. By this time, her father had a new girlfriend and was rarely at the condo that they shared.

Caitlin was starting to get a feeling for what it was like to be on her own. Her talent and drive landed her a prestigious internship at Art Beyond Boundaries, an art gallery in Cincinnati. And on her 21st birthday, John proposed. And she said yes. They started planning the rest of their lives together. After graduation, they would move to Colorado for a change of pace and a chance to spread their wings and grow. But just weeks before graduation and

two days before her 22nd birthday, she vanished. Her last known communication with John was at 11.36 p.m. Shortly after midnight, her phone went dark. It was as if she had just walked away from her life, but that was so unlikely with everything she had to look forward to. Just didn't make sense. Through the investigation, a suspect came to light. Megan Gordon, a friend and somewhat mentor of Caitlin's, shared some advice with her. They went school together, but Megan was older and had more life experience, so Caitlin often confided in her. I had given some advice with her and John, but there was a kid that she had expressed to me that had had some interest in her and the way that she described it to me, it was

a sexual interest. And I advised her to stay far away from this kid. I told her you know just you need to cut him off completely cut him off completely. I was definitely concerned for her because his interest in her was inappropriate and it was definitely she felt uncomfortable. I remember her telling me she didn't know what to do she She felt uncomfortable, but she didn't want to hurt anybody's feelings. Kaitlyn tried to tell him she wasn't interested, but not wanting to hurt his feelings,

she tried to let him down gently. Unfortunately, this was the kind of guy that didn't take the hint. The kid's name was Christopher Ball. He immediately rose to the top of the suspect list because, well, he was a registered sex offender. Because he couldn't provide an exact alibi, they searched his electronics and gave him a CVSA. I know that one was close too, but that one stands

for Computer Voice Stress Analysis Test. A CVSA measures subtle changes in a person's voice to detect deception. It's a lie detector test. Chris Ball had little to no contact with Kaitlyn since high school, other than a few Facebook interactions and he passed the test. Then another suspect emerged. A man who used to live near Kaitlyn as recently as a month and a half before her disappearance and was arrested for an unrelated sexual battery. His proximity and criminal record made him suspicious, but his phone records and work

schedule didn't place him anywhere near her that night. Of course, the Fairfield PD also looked into Bradley Vaughn Bargan because he was one of the last people to see her, but his alibi checked out. They looked into John Carter, too, as he was actually the last one to see her by his own admission. His alibi was pretty tight, but there were some brief periods of time that no one could corroborate. Not to mention he had suspicious scratches on his neck that he blamed on his electric razor So they gave him a CVSA test also, you know for shits and giggles. We have something that's called a tendency You have a tendency to block on particular questions. Okay, the scariest ones. I'm sure well this one is is today Monday

You said yes But you had a tendency to block on it. For me, the reason that you would have a tendency to block on that question is because you're nervous. It's as simple as that. We get into question number four when it gets to the pertinent questions about knowing the whereabouts. You have a tendency to block on this one too. Okay. Now if we go to chart number two, which chart two is the only one we use. Okay. Okay. I'll show you. Name John. Yes. Um, it's color of the door brown. You said no. Actually gave me a truthful reading. Okay. The way these tests work is they'll ask you a series of questions and some of the questions are control questions.

They're obviously true and others are purposely false. This sets a baseline for what truth and lies look like per individual. John was all over the place. like per individual. John was all over the place. He was showing signs of deception on obviously true questions like, is today Monday? And he was reading true on obvious lies like, is the door brown?

I get to the pertinent question again. Do you have any information pertaining to the whereabouts? No, but I have a tendency here. Okay. Did you cause the disappearance of Caitlin Markham? You put no and it showed a truthful response here. But when we get to number seven, are we in the city of Fairfield? You say yes. You blocked hard on this. I want you to know that these charts have determined that there was deception in your answers. Okay? John was at a loss. He assured them that he would do anything they wanted if it would lead to Caitlin, but he couldn't explain his failure on the test.

He maintained he was telling the truth. When you said disappearance, it really freaks me out. I'm just really scared. I'm genuinely scared. What are you scared of right now? Not getting Caitlin back. And I don't know why it's inconclusive. Okay.

I'm more than willing to do anything else to prove that I'm not involved in her disappearance. Okay. The police were at a loss also. They knew the statistics. Something like 34% of murdered women are killed by an intimate partner. It ain't rocket science.

John was very cooperative though, and they had no evidence directly tying him to, well, anything. They actually didn't have any physical evidence at all. While they were suspicious of John, they couldn't prove he did anything. But they also couldn't rule him they couldn't prove he did anything. But they also couldn't rule him out. So they just kept investigating. One real lead came months later in 2012 when allegations of sexual harassment were made against David Clemens, Katelyn's boss at the campus bookstore. One of his young female employees claimed he made inappropriate comments to her, calling her high-heeled shoes, fuck-me boots. Can't say stuff like that at work, obviously. You'll

get me-tooed immediately. Anyway, the claims went beyond that. She also claimed that he pulled her onto his lap and hugged her and asked her to bring alcohol to work, and when she refused, he became to bring alcohol to work. And when she refused, he became angry, according to her. So you know, well, I know, you know, you're on administrative league right now. Yes. Okay. And I understand. I know. And I know why that you're on administrative league with that. What do you think about that? It's completely false. Okay. What's the MO here? I mean, why do you think she would say something like that? You know, I thought about it over and over and the only thing I can think of is when

I reprimanded her the last day she worked. David acted innocent, but they weren't there to talk about the sexual allegations against him. They were there to talk about Kaitlyn. Among her things, detectives found a handwritten letter from Kaitlyn to someone named Dave. This was a letter that was found at Kaitlyn's house. The letter reads in part, Dear Dave, I don't really know how to tell you this, but I'm selling myself for candy.

I think I realized it when you smacked my butt at the Elton John concert and I saw you sit on your My Little Pony collection. I'm sure you're middle class enough to understand that I get turned on by garbage men. I'm returning your Hannah Montana underwear to you, but I'll keep the results of that blood sample as a memory. You make me sick. Kaitlin Markham. Maybe I'm not the investigator I think I am, but I have no idea what any of that means.

I have no idea what that means. Well, we're just curious. It's obviously dressed today, but what day it is. We're trying to figure that out ourselves. I mean, that's obviously dressed today, but whatever day it is, we're trying to figure that out ourselves. I mean, that's obviously... That's definitely not me. That's completely baffling to me. Okay, that's what's in.

It reads like mad lips. As odd as the letter was, it wasn't enough to connect David to Caitlin's disappearance. They asked Dave to take a CVSA test, in other words, a lie detector test, and he hesitantly agreed, only to later change his mind. His alibi checked out though. He was at dinner with his wife and his in-laws, so he was crossed off the list. During that time, Kaitlyn's family and community searched high and low. Authorities used dogs, drones, helicopters, and volunteers to scour the surrounding rivers, creeks, wooded areas, and even sewers to find Kaitlyn.

But there was no sign of her. The investigation would go on for one year and eight months, with no substantial developments until her remains were found at the dump site. When the ISP or Indiana State Police took over the investigation, they almost immediately bungled the case. It took hours for them to arrive at the dump site, first of all.

They did little to no forensics, instead opting to come back a couple days later, and they didn't really do a very good job. Days later, mourners visiting the site found more of Caitlin's remains. They discovered her complete hip bone. The dump site itself held no real clues, and there was certainly no DNA evidence on the sun-bleached bones. One potential clue was the dump site's location. John Carter's father

owned property in Indiana. It was 50 acres of woods with a pond, a cave, and a waterfall. From Fairfield, there were only two routes to this property. Kaitlyn's remains were found almost exactly midway on one of those routes. Suddenly, the ISP's only focus became John Carter. I think that you apparently had been questioned early on by the police and at one point in time, it was my understanding that there was a reason to believe that you were being dishonest about something.

I'm not being evasive. I'm just saying something. I mean, I know that I've taken multiple lie detector tests and I know that I've been accused of being dishonest. And I know that somebody thinks that I have some sort of something that I'm hiding, but I promise you that I'm not. I'm not hiding anything. This interview took place in August 2013, four months after Kaitlyn's remains were found. At this point, John had been interviewed by the police at least four times, and he had taken two CVSA tests and an FBI-administered old-school

polygraph test. He failed them all. I'm going to be completely upfront with you. They're bullshit. And the reason why I believe that they're bullshit is because they kept telling me that I was being dishonest. And I sat there and told them the truth. This is the truth. And that thing does not tell you what the truth is. John did not want to take another lie detector test, but the ISP still had some questions. In his original interview, John said he sent Caitlin a good morning text at 4 a.m. before he went to bed.

But when they checked the phone history, there was no record of this text. I distinctly remember at the very least typing this message, and I'm pretty positive that I pushed send. I don't know how that, what that is all about. This wasn't the only unusual thing about John's text messages. He also selectively deleted some text between him and Kaitlyn explaining that he'd done so by mistake. They didn't press much harder because they wanted to focus on John's family property. I don't know how she got there.

I don't speculate how she got there because I don't, I try not to think about that shit. I try not to put those images in my head. I have no idea what she went through and I don't want to imagine what she went through. Are you familiar with the area where they found her? My dad has property in Laurel, which you can take, because I know that it's on 129 or off 129 or something. 121. 121?

Yeah, and my dad would go that way occasionally, but usually, because he lives in Ross, he takes a totally different way. He said he rarely went to his father's property, and when he did, he used landmarks to navigate. He was familiar with the route, but claimed he wasn't familiar enough to pick out the spot where Caitlin's remains were found. Because he refused to take another lie detector test, they couldn't really be sure if he

was telling the truth. He was free to go, but John made a final plea before he left. Look into the festival, because to me, the fact that it was so coincidental that this festival was going on during this time, there's all these people walking around doing something. It just to me seems very suspicious. Detectives would work quietly on this case for the next six months before coming back to John. This time he agreed to a polygraph. You didn't do well on that test.

I never do. You probably do that. I never do. It's just, it's so frustrating because I'm sitting here telling the truth and somebody's telling me that I'm a liar. This is hell because polygraph didn't clear me. So I'm going to have to keep coming back here. I'm going to have to keep talking to them all the while not going to jail because there's not going to be anything to send me there. going to jail because there's not going to be anything to send me there. Once again, John failed the lie detector test, but he was right.

They did not have any evidence to arrest him. So the case seemingly stalled. Then in 2015, David Markham, fed up with the lack of progress, publicly asked the Butler County Sheriff's Office to take over. Sheriff Jones will take this over. It's a step in the right direction. There has been very little movement. We need more help.

We need somebody who's going to take this more serious. Ten months after John's fourth failed lie detector test, and over four years after Caitlin went missing, the BCSO became the third agency to take on the case. But would fresh eyes make a difference in this four-year-old cold case? Detectives hoped so, and they came out swinging for John. The first call he made after searching her apartment was to her father, and the first words out of his mouth were, Kaitlyn's missing. They found it odd that that was his immediate assumption.

Of course I'm concerned. Her dog shits all over her floor. She would never let that happen. She would never not answer my phone call. All of these things are insanely out of the ordinary for her. But it seems like my experience- For my experience, it seems like you almost know something catastrophic has happened here.

Have you ever had a feeling? I have all kinds of feelings. Exactly. They pushed John hard, confident that they would get him to crack. They were the third agency to work on this case and they had something to prove to the community and the Markhams. I know you guys are having a lot of trouble understanding, you know, why I was worried.

Elvis, explain to me why your DNA is on the inside of a Kroger's bag that was wrapped around her skeletal remains. I have no idea. And why your DNA was on a black piece of plastic that her skeletal remains. I have no idea. That's not made up stuff. I didn't fucking do that though, but I'm leaving. I'm getting the lawyer. Thank you. John stormed out, but he came back and explained it away. Of course he did. Evidence in a bag and on a piece of plastic. Whoever did this could have easily have grabbed a bag that I had used, or a bag that I had

held, or have done anything. Or I could be being set up, but I did not do this. There are accounts of where I was that night, according to my mother, according to my stepfather, and according to my stepsister." They were so confident that he would confess if they had strong enough evidence. So they made it up. There were no DNA results. It was all just a ploy because they just knew he would break at some point.

When John didn't confess, they started back at square one. Over the next six years, they made a list of 20 suspects and cleared them all. Then they started to pore over previous interviews by other investigators and found something that they had overlooked. Two kids came forward in 2013, right after Kaitlyn's remains were found, with an interesting story. Me and Darren were sneaking out of his house at two o'clock because we heard of a party. Darren and Kyle were outside for five minutes

when they thought they were busted. Two cars pulled up. We thought they were police, so we hid. Both teens dove for cover in a nearby bush. I had my head peeked around the left side of it expecting a Fairfield PD to come around and the lights turned off to where we saw the vehicle pull into the driveway, garage door goes up, car pulls in, the other car pulls on the street right next to the driveway, garage door goes down.

They thought they were about to be busted. Instead, they were left wondering what was even happening. Darren's dad's gonna wake up mad, blah, blah, blah. But no, it's two suspicious cars with their lights off looking like they're sneaking into their own house. Five to 10 minutes later, the cars pulled up, still with their headlights off, and left the way they came. This was interesting because Darren lived across the street from John Carter

and saw his red Ford Focus that night. He also saw the driver of the blue car. You know, long hair to his shoulders, pulled away, and then just like an unmanicured, you know, very messy hair, and then just unmanicured facial hair. Okay. That description rang a bell for investigators. One of John's inner circle back in 2011 was a man named John Palmerton, who fit the description. It had been 11 years since Caitlin disappeared, but

John Palmerton still had long, unkempt hair and unmanicured facial hair. You work at Rick's that weekend, do you recall? Yeah, yeah. I couldn't tell you Friday, I can't remember. Not sure about Friday night. Saturday night I did close. What times did you actually leave Rick's that night, you remember?

Couldn't tell you an exact time. I know me and John Monkendon, the person I was close with, basically since we had nothing to do we got done close and went home, showered up, met back up and went back up to Rick's to hang out with the bartenders and drink. Okay. So you said you lived here with John? John Lumpkin. And L-U-M-P-K-I-N.

After Jonathan gave his alibi to detectives, they told him about the two cars witnessed that night at John Carter's house. At that point in time you were driving a blue car. You owned a blue, dark blue... Yeah. ... vehicle. Does that sound familiar to you? What? That incident happened? Yeah. No. Never happened? I can tell you where I was at. Sorry if those details they gave you match me, but it has nothing to do with me. And that's all I can tell you on that. He stared blankly at detectives, but denied the man in the blue car was him. And when they asked him to take a polygraph test, he refused.

He said, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. at detectives, but denied the man in the blue car was him. And when they asked him to take a polygraph test, he refused. He said they weren't accurate. Detectives let him walk and set out to disprove his alibi. They went to find John Lumpkin, the man he said he took home that night.

Like I told you before, sir, we also have the other person, Mr. Rufflage. night. John Lumpkin didn't waste any time. He flat out denied ever being with Jonathan Palmerton that night. Just like that, Palmerton's alibi fell apart. Lying to police? That's a serious offense on its own, but the real question wasn't why he lied. It was who he was covering for. Detectives started to think he was an accomplice, someone who helped get rid of Caitlin's body and hide it. If Jonathan had lied for 12 years, what else was he keeping a secret? You After years of investigation with no developments, Kaitlin's father David pleaded with the sheriff's office to take over the investigation.

When they did, another six years passed, but they never stopped working. The case finally took a turn when they uncovered a previously misstatement from teenagers. With confirmed witness accounts, the police re-interviewed John Carter's close friend, Jonathan Palmerton. He provided an alibi, but detectives disproved it. Finally, after 12 years, they made the first arrest in the case. They arrested Jonathan for perjury and brought him in to uncover what else he might be hiding. Kaitlyn went missing.

She was murdered. That's the reality of it. And there's a small group of people that could be responsible for it. He's worked on this case, interviewed all these people. He tried to give you the benefit of the doubt and interview people that you said, go talk to this guy, go talk to this person.

He goes to talk to him, it's just on that night in question. He goes to talk to him, I don't remember anything doing that. It wasn't just John Lumpkin who said it never happened. Other people at the bar that night said they never saw him. Jonathan tried to explain but the detective stopped him. In a firm voice he leaned in closer and told him that if he were covering for John Carter to just come clean and he wouldn't face any charges. Yeah, but if I had anything, why would I lie to save his ass? Because I don't give a shit about him getting away with something or something compared to me losing my fucking family. Well then what happened that night?

I don't know. That's the thing. I wasn't there. I didn't help dispose of a body. If I had, I would have taken the immunity plea in a fucking second. I can guarantee you that. What Jonathan didn't know was a lot, but also that search warrants were being served

at that very moment. They slapped down something that they found at John's house, something they thought offered a glimpse into the mind of a murderer. It was a poem. Definitely conflicting, kind of like some kind of personality disorder kind of thing. Like someone pushing and pulling with a darker side of themselves, so to speak.

The poem reads like someone arguing with themselves. Deep down, I love her. You want to kill her. But I love her. She must die. I can't kill her. Yes you can. No. Yes. How do you talk me into all these things?

I'm just that good. But you're bad. I know. How do I kill you? You can't. You're right. About what? Nothing." How do I kill you? You can't. You're right. About what?

Nothing. Just then, the detective slammed a photo down on the table. Is that her fucking teeth? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Jonathan had a visceral reaction. He looked everywhere, but in the direction of that picture. Deep down, I love her.

You want to kill her, but I love her. I mean, it's not it's not it's not song lyrics, John. I mean, this is the way she ended up. His demeanor changed. He wasn't smugly answering questions anymore. Detectives thought he was about to crack, so they laid it on thicker. I will tell you this. On June 20th, July 20th, 2011, John Carter's mother, Karen, Kaitlyn went to GE credit union, okay?

Went to go in to get a credit card because Karen knew that they were going to Colorado. She was going to make sure, being Karen, that Caitlin and John didn't end up out there, finance broke. She goes, and Karen said this, well if I co-sign for this credit card, you got to take my son with you. Okay? Karen laughed. The lady at GE Credit Union laughed. Guess who didn't laugh?

Karen. Okay, no expression. Let's go to Friday night at the festival. Michelle Fice, she goes, they were arguing over him spending money, being John Carter on money they didn't have. Okay? Jeff Rutledge, and I quote,

it looked like they were going to break up. One day later she's murdered. One day later, she's dead. That very night, Brad Van Bargain, he's sitting with them. She's always friendly to Van Bargain. They didn't talk. Katelyn, he said there was something wrong with Katelyn that night. She was going places. She had things she wanted to go do. Not sit around and smoke weed all day and day and wait for her boyfriend to get down and get her ring pieces. So if you've been manipulated, if you've been asked to do something, now's the time. As far as I knew, I thought everything was fine between them.

That's why I never suspected he would fucking have done this. He had an obvious physical reaction to seeing the photos of Caitlin's remains. But all they did when they pressured him was to convince him that John Carter did it. He still maintained that he was not involved. All I can tell you is that that's where I was, and I'm sorry that apparently they don't fucking remember me as far as that goes. He finally offered to take a polygraph but detectives didn't need him to. Because with his story in pieces, all roads led back to John Carter. It took over a month after John Palmerton's arrest for the Sheriff's Office to finalize

all their evidence before arresting John Carter. They hope to confront him with their circumstantial evidence but... David, you've been indicted and... For what? Murder. Okay, but what evidence? There's nothing. There's... you're thinking of there's evidence is gonna be

fingerprints I mean there's those things called circumstantial evidence okay the whole story about the the unknown suspect or an individual who was at the at the the festival following you and getting to her house I know was believing that okay they didn't believe it when you first come out with it. Okay, but that was just like a thought. I mean, like you asked me my theories and I gave you my thought, but I don't. You told me. No, no, no, no one asked you that question. That's the question you gave to the 911 operator, Dave Warren. Okay. Okay. So that means that- I thought maybe that could be a possibility, but I'm not saying

that's my story. I don't know what the fuck happened. I have no idea what happened. Maybe my stories are different. Sometimes here and there. Sometimes. John, but but there's your story has evolved constantly over the past almost 12 years because it's been 12 fucking years. Yeah. But your story is not this is never the same story twice. That's the best Constantly over the past almost 12 years because it's been 12 fucking years Yeah, but your story is not in this is never the same story twice. That's the best part about all this It's never the same story twice. What are you talking about? Okay, that's not that's the unknown suspect following me thing Okay, fine What I have been telling you and what I've been trying to say is I have no clue what happened to her.

What I did, what I said, okay, then we're done. I'm going to need to get my lawyer. Yes. Okay. Yes, because you'll be getting a call. Can I please have a phone call? Yes, when you get to the jail. John shut down the interview in six minutes. When word of his arrest spread through the community, Caitlin's friends and family felt like they always knew.

This is where I'm not sure. Just in the last week or so, I'm not sure if she really wanted to do the trip. I know she didn't want to do it with John. He was no help. She didn't want to babysit him. She had made those comments to other people. Almost sort of like your marriage. Yeah, pretty much. He didn't do a thing. I mean, he was, he's a pizza delivery guy.

He wants to stay up till three or four in the morning, and sleep till two in the afternoon, and deliver pizzas for four hours. And that's his ambition, getting high. And she was done with that. Caitlin was getting ready to graduate college. She was cleaning up. She was turning into a young woman and really mature and making some really mature decisions for herself.

I very specifically remember a time when she talked to me about her concern about being engaged to John, that she seemed to me to be very uncomfortable, that it was going too fast. And he wanted more sexually from her and she wasn't comfortable with it. And she at one point in time communicated that she was not physically attracted to him anymore because he had gained so much weight

and was not taking care of himself. She was physically disgusted by him. She told me she was grossed out because he would smell. It was a sharp discomfort that she did not want to be with him sexually. We were talking again about her move to Colorado and I said something to the effect of like, well, what about your wedding plans? Are you going to get married in Colorado? Is that what you guys are planning? And she kind of waffled and got a little cagey and she said, I'm not sure if we're going to get married. I don't know if that's still going to happen. Kaitlyn was having serious second thoughts about her future, especially with John, and she shared her feelings with her friends.

They all saw the writing on the wall. I think she was fed up with him. I think she was tired, you know, she's breaking it off with him. She's going to call her out by herself. But I always felt and knew she was going to leave him. I saw her positioning herself to leave him. And I don't know how he did it, but I think that he sensed the relationship was ending and I think that he, not to editorialize, but I think he was a little coward bitch baby and rather than like be abandoned, I think he thought why can't just do this and no one's going to suspect me.

All of us suspected him right away. All of us knew that he did it. John Carter was arrested and charged with unclassified murder and murdered during the commission of an assault. Here's the theory the prosecution put against his two murder charges. Caitlin had been coming to a tough decision in the weeks, maybe months leading up to her murder. She was about to graduate and start her career, a career that she'd worked on so hard. John, on the other hand, was a layabout, sleeping all day only to wake up and deliver a few pizzas every night. Typical Redditor loser. He didn't have a degree, he didn't have a career, he lived

with his parents. He just didn't have any money or plans or prospects. Didn't seem to care to either. So many people like that around these days. Entitled baby losers expecting someone else to pay for their life. Anyway that night at the festival Caitlin was pissed he was wasting money on raffle tickets like poor dumb people do. They got a heated argument about something John said didn't happen. At that moment, she made her decision. That was it. She was done. She wasn't going to let John dictate her life anymore. She wasn't going to put up with his shit. She didn't want to move to Colorado with him. The next night, she was so preoccupied with this

pending breakup that she couldn't even enjoy hanging out with Von Bargen. next night, she was so preoccupied with this pending breakup that she couldn't even enjoy hanging out with Von Bargen. That's why she was kinda rude to him when he came over. After he left, she likely told John she wanted to break up. That's when little bitch boy John likely snapped and killed her, getting the scratches on his neck near his rainbow tattoo in the process. They never came from an electric razor. They certainly didn't come from working down at the mill. Caitlin's neighbor remembered being startled awake that night. It was most certainly, stop it!

It was, stop it! And a name or a word stop it and then I heard the That was it and then And that went on for like Maybe 10 15 seconds. It was weird. Okay, it definitely caught my attention and after that it was silent Whether he meant to or not. It doesn't matter He decided to cover it up. He spent the next few minutes faking the text conversation with Caitlin

while trying to come up with a plan in his big dumb head. When he went to the party to establish his alibi, people noticed how distant he was. You're not as good of an actor as you think you are. It's a lot harder than it looks." He absentmindedly stirred the fire out back while he was most likely burning some sort of evidence. He left the party at around the same time Jonathan Palmerton got off work at Rick's

Tavern. When the two teens saw those cars, it was John and Jonathan. John was gathering the black landscaping plastic to wrap Caitlin's body in and he was pressing play on the next part of his alibi. The episodes of White Collar on his computer. This White Collar show looks like utter trash by the way it's on USA. Who watches shows on USA? Probably the same people who buy lottery tickets come to think of it. But detectives found evidence of him looking up the episode's synopsis the next day.

Almost like he had to memorize it. His computer activity was the only thing that put him at home, and it seemed to be fabricated. Phone records showed that not only did Kaitlyn's phone go dark shortly after midnight, but so did John's. For hours. This is the time frame he should have been home, but detectives think he was wrapping her body, putting a bag over her head and transporting her to that dump site, on the way to his dad's property. After that was done, he went home,

cleaned up and deleted any incriminating text messages, but he forgot to send that good morning text. The next day, John may have expected Kaitlyn's no call, no show at work to have raised alarms, but when it didn't, he had to be the one to report her missing to avoid more suspicion. This was the crucial misstep in his plan. His immediate assumption that she was missing seemed extreme, and his theory about the festival-goers

being responsible seemed like an obvious misdirect to police. We've seen this kind of thing before, at least once, you know? It was something a guilty person would say. So while it seemed like the police were doing nothing, they were actually slowly building a case against John Carter. Additional circumstantial evidence added up over time. John spoke at a vigil for Kaitlyn, saying some peculiar things. There was a candlelight vigil after she went missing that was held around her birthday. But I remember John saying to us, Kaitlyn would have wanted this. And Megan and I, after the fact, feeling like that was a weird thing for him to say,

like she would have wanted this. She would have wanted to like be here for her birthday. She would have wanted to like celebrate her birthday with all these people who like clearly give a shit. A suspect referring to a missing person in the past tense is always a bad sign. It implies he knows she's gone. Maybe that's why he never helped with any of the searches. Then again, he was lazy. The very first search, and this left a very bad taste in my mouth, very first search I went out on, he was there. He was very monotone, very noncommittal to the search, and he came out to give us a pep talk. He was out there searching, and he said, I'm sorry I can't participate, but I have a bad

knee. And I thought to myself, if that was somebody I love, there's no way a knee would stop me from being out there. I'd be out there with a machete chopping down every branch. I'd be out there with something digging out underneath every bush. But he was just very monotone, one note, sorry, I can't help you. I have a bad knee. But he never missed an opportunity to play the grieving fiancé. Victimhood is a very useful commodity these days.

When he wasn't playing the grieving fiance, he was making his way through all the other women in the extended circle of friends, hitting on each one of them. I just found it strange that John had gone through several females in a short amount of time after his girlfriend or fiance, high school sweetheart, had been missing.

He went through me, then Heather, and then even Kaitlyn's best friend, Amber. And he had mentioned to all three of us that he's always had a crush on us while he was with Kaitlyn, and that just struck the cord with me. But the results of the search warrants really sealed the deal. At John's mom's house, the authorities found black landscaping plastic in the garden shed out back, an item bought in bulk and most likely kept for years. But more damaging than that, they found a lot of odd poems and writings from John. The most damning, perhaps, was a single line scrawled in black sharpie on his closet door.

Isolate your wrists with the key to your heart. To further cement their theory that the soft-spoken, effeminate John Carter had a violent side, they included a recorded argument between him and his ex. Get a load of this. Stop talking to me, please! I have got to take my medicine! between him and his ex. Get a load of this. Not my problem not my problem. Hey, you like to sleep early then your pain isn't my problem wow wow? Wow You need to stop while you're ahead Stop while you're ahead

Where you're recording? Die oh, yeah Go ahead I don't think about I don't give a shit about I like your hair. I want you't give a shit about water, Sarah! I want you to stop acting like a fucking asshole every fucking day! I got everything taken care of! You're so proud of me, I got the marina out!

And I told you I'm mine! You know! Stop! And yet you're telling me to be a fucking asshole every fucking day! No, I'm not. Yes, you are! The perjury charges against Jonathan Palmerton would later be dropped to make him available as a state's witness. Maybe it was Jonathan as a witness or the mountain of circumstantial evidence, but John would never make it to trial.

Instead he would accept a plea deal like the pussy he was. In exchange for pleading guilty, he would only be charged with involuntary manslaughter. In June of 2024, two months shy of 13 years since Kaitlyn's disappearance, John Carter pled guilty, admitting he accidentally caused her death during an assault. A little bit of relief, but boy, I was shaking. I was so, I was literally shaking. Sitting there, I was so mad. I wasn't shocked that there was a plea. I was shocked at how little it carries.

God forbid he doesn't get anything but three years, you know. That's going to really feel like a letdown if he doesn't get time. Then I'm not going to feel like there's justice. He was sentenced to a maximum of three years in prison. You see, the statute of limitations had run out on the other charges like abuse of a corpse and disposal of the body, or he would have had a longer sentence. That statute is something David Markham hopes to work with lawmakers to change. It was all over, but how do you have closure with just a three-year sentence?

That is why there's no closure. I still do not know the whole story. And not that I would have believed him because he's lied for 13 years, but he's offered no explanation, hasn't even tried. To me, that just shows his character. I do respect and understand the prosecutor's office. It would have been a tough case, just a lot of circumstantial evidence. Everybody wants to see some hardcore pictures or hardcore evidence to, you know, beyond reasonable doubt. So I think this is going to be rough on John,

and I'm not concerned with that. In the days following, Caitlin's loved ones gathered one last time. Not for a search, not for a plea for justice, but to finally say goodbye. As they stood together, a prayer was read. A prayer for peace, for a soul taken too soon. And Lord, give us the perseverance to continue honoring Caitlin, tomorrow and for as long as we live. And then, something unexpected happened. A butterfly fluttered past the crowd, landing gently on David's shoulder.

She liked butterflies and I don't know, they just, there's been days that I've had bad days in the early on times and the butterfly would come and fly around me and I'm like, oh, hi babe. 21 year old Caitlin Markham was on the edge of something new. It was the beginning of the rest of her life. We've heard it so many times, these young people taken by violence. She spent her whole life pushing towards a future that she could shape for herself.

But sometimes moving forward means leaving things behind. And some people can't stand being left behind. John Carter, the man who had been at the center of the case from the start, the man who cried on television, the man who begged for help, the man who swore he had nothing to do with her disappearance, and her death was guilty.

Guilty of a crime of desperation, of fear, of losing the one person who defined his whole life. We may never know exactly what happened to Caitlin Markham that night, but we have a pretty good imagination, and we've seen this kind of character before. Also, we know that Caitlin Markham wanted a future, and John made sure she never got one. When the obligation of their relationship and John's expectations started to weigh Caitlin down, she tried to break herself free, but it came at a cost.

The cost was everything, including herself. John Carter was never free, not after that night. His sentence may have been three years, but the real punishment? That started long before his arrest. The toughest prisons aren't made of bars, they're made of choices that you can't take back. Relationships you can't take back, relationships you can't escape, and the guilt that follows you wherever you go.

That's gonna do it for yet another Sword and Scale. Thank you so much for joining us and for being a plus member. There's been a little bit of, I don't know, talk about my apology a few episodes ago. A lot of people online, especially on Facebook, Love the drama, and they just can't wait to find out how I got cancelled in order to solicit such an apology. Well, you're just a bunch of fucking idiots. You know that? You're a bunch of bozos. Because the apology was sincere. It was coming from me, Well, you're just a bunch of fucking idiots, you know that? You're a bunch of bozos. Because the apology was sincere, it was coming from me,

and it was because I felt bad about my pattern of thinking that I recognized was devolving into something ugly. You see, people are individuals, and you should treat them that way all the time. You don't put them into groups and label them and, you know, expect certain behaviors from them like some of the racists in our comment section. Those people are cunts. Think it through, asshole.

What if you're that little boy, fresh into the world with lots of expectations and hopes? Maybe not such a great environment, maybe not such a great set of parents. Do you really want to instill that hatred, that racism into that little boy? You really want to make him into what you think he is? No. It's stupid. It's ignorant. That goes for any group, whether it's blacks or immigrants or whatever. Thinking that way is a spiral into hate, into division, into just a pure shitty garbage world. And we're already living in a pretty garbage world so I don't want to add to it. Treat individuals as individuals every day. That's that's it. That's all I meant. So...

Debate that if you want. But leave me the fuck out of it. I said all I needed to say. And, uh... That's that. Have a good one. And we'll see you here next week. Stay safe. day. I'm going to be a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a

little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a

little bit of a little bit of a I'm sorry.