Sword and Scale - Episode 356

Episode Date: June 28, 2026

In 2008, University of Wisconsin–Madison student Brittany Zimmermann was murdered in her apartment in the middle of the day, and then the trail went cold. An unlikely informant leads the police to search for two mystery men, a theory that would steer the investigation for years. As time passed and leads fell apart, the case slowly faded from view. Twelve years later, detectives discovered the truth wasn’t buried; it had been right in front of them all along.Get instant access to all episodes, including premium unreleased episodes, commercial-free at swordandscale.com

Sword and Scale contains adult themes and violence and is not intended for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised. Small. Yeah, I'd take off. I mean, if I would have killed her, I would have been gone. You guys have never found me this day. I would never even went back to my apartment. I mean, that seems logical, right?

Yeah. This is Season 13, Episode 356 of Sword and Scale, a show that reveals at the worst monsters. A real. It's an overcast day in March 2018. The winter's snow is finally giving way as the weather warms. Kevin and Gene Zimmerman sit in their living room with lights, a camera, and a local reporter staring back at them. Does time sort of stop for you on that day on April 2nd?

Absolutely. In 2008? Do you feel like you can, you know, that it is 10 years later? No. I don't know. No. No. It's quite unbelievable. That is 10 years already. It's completely unbelievable. They've done countless interviews over the years and are willing to do thousands more, anything to keep their daughter's case alive. How often do you think about that day?

Every day, every single day. We thought it was going to be solved right away. We didn't even consider that we'd be here. 10 years later. Three days after this interview would mark 10 years since their daughter, Brittany, was killed. In that decade, the case had passed through three police chiefs and four lead detectives. Years of work with little to show for it. Only once did they think they were close. Why do you think there hasn't been an arrest or even seemingly like a person of interest

or a major break in the case. I mean, we thought there was. You know, it was two and a half years ago, Chief Colval came to our door on my husband's birthday and said, we believe we have the person responsible for killing your daughter, December 9th. That moment came in 2016, but two years later, there was still no arrest.

All the Zimmermans could do was hold on to hope. That's all we have is hope. We can hope. But realistically, I'm not real sure that they're ever going to solve this, at least not the way it's being handled right now. I just don't believe it. When parents lose a child, they're powerless to do anything but wait. Justice moves on its own timeline.

And in the Zimmerman's case, that timeline stretched endlessly. These interviews, these small acts of advocacy, were all they had control over. If speaking publicly could help or speed up catching Britney's killer, they'd do it every day for the rest of their lives to make that happen. What would you really tell people about why they should rack their brains? Because if it was your child, you'd want everybody in the world to rack their brains for you. Put yourself in our shoes.

Just for a second. Just for a second. Put yourself in our, our, shoes. And knowing what this little girl meant everything to us. And, you know, she was never there to hurt anybody. She was always there to help people. Photos of Brittany still lined every wall of their home. A family scarred by tragedy, frozen in time, clinging to whatever hope remained.

And wondering whether the case would ever be solved. Meanwhile, the police department continued to work on their decade-old investigation. This is not what I would consider been relegated to a cold case. This still has active leads that are worthy. The Zimmermans knew little about the leads detectives were chasing. They only knew that two years earlier, the police chief had told them they had the guy. But there had been no arrests. They were completely in the dark.

If I had the probable cause based on the totality of the evidence I had, had, don't you think I would have made an arrest? It turned out that the chief had spoken too soon. It was one of many missteps in an investigation that had been plagued by setbacks from the start. One of the biggest was losing the longtime lead investigator. The emotional toll of the case eventually became too heavy to bear. He was convulsing at one point.

And then I was convulsing. And I realize we can't continue to sign cases this way. The chief swore that, moving forward, a team of investigators would carry the case. He was confident they would solve it, eventually. The old school cop of me still hopes now that loops, slips will sink ships. Someone's going to say something to somebody about this case in a bar or overheard. But even if they did, even if the killer, was finally behind bars, the Zimmermans knew it would bring them little comfort.

What they wanted most was the one thing that no investigation could return. She would be a doctor right now that she wanted to be, and we would be proud of her, and we could go visit her on her animal farm and everything she wanted because she loved animals. That's what we wish, you know, that she could liberate. life the way she wanted to. They had thought the case would be solved quickly. By 2018, they simply hoped it would be solved at all.

Their nightmares started on April 2nd, 2008, when their daughter was attacked inside her apartment in the middle of the day. The mistake started almost immediately. And to understand how this case remained open for a decade, you have to go back to the start. Monday will mark 10 years since a brutal murder that rocked downtown Madison.

It's been five years since Britney Zimmerman was killed here on Adoptie Street. Friday will mark the two-year anniversary of the Madison murder of Britney Zimmerman. It's April 2, 2008. Jordan Gonering hops on his moped and heads towards the University of Wisconsin-Madison campus. His fiance, Brittany, is already in class. She had a big test that morning. He rides a short distance to campus from their apartment. and enjoying the sun.

It wouldn't feel so cold if it weren't for the wind, he thinks to himself. He gets back to campus at around 11.30. He goes out on one of the balconies of the Van Hise building and scans the quad for Brittany. She turns her phone off in class, but he knows she'll be coming out of the bacteriology building. Then he spots her. She stands out with her golden hair

and the collar of her lime green pea coat pulled up around her neck. He calls her name. She looks around for a moment before looking up to the balcony. A smile spreads across her face when she sees Jordan. He points to his phone and she remembers her phone is off. She turns it on and it rings instantly. Jordan asks her how her parasitology test went. She sighs but says it went fine.

They have a quick conversation. just touching base before their dinner plans that night. They finish their phone call and Jordan starts heading to his Russian literature class, which starts at 1205. After class ends at 1255, Jordan walks back to his moped and hops on. He weaves through the campus and onto his street. He gets home, parks his bike on the side of the house, and walks to the front door like he always does.

Then he stops. The lock on the outside security door is busted. It looks like somebody kicked it in. He can't remember if it was always like this. He stares at it for a moment, thinking, but dismisses it and starts to go inside. He reaches to open the closed door and notices it's unlocked. He thinks, that's weird.

But he also knows their landlord was supposed to show the apartment, that day, so he assumes that's why. He walks inside and takes off his backpack, his jacket, and his shoes. Usually their three cats would greet him at the door, but today they were nowhere to be found.

Jordan takes a few steps towards the back of the small apartment and freezes. On the floor in the bedroom is Brittany. Just for a second he thinks she's pranking him, but as soon as he inches close he sees blood.

Jordan would call 911 at 108 p.m. 911, what's the address to the emergency? 911 with the address of the emergency. This is 911 with the address of the emergency. His phone barely holds a connection. He manages to give the address on West Doty Street before the call cuts out. It's what? You're cutting out.

Can you hear me? hear me? Hello. Hello. Okay, your phone's cutting out. Did you say upper or lower flat? Yes. The dispatcher tries again. Their voices break in and out, tangled and static. Okay. Ambulance is needed. Okay, what is your name? Jordan Garin. Okay, tell me exactly what happened. I just came home. The door was busted in and my girlfriend's been shot. Okay. Stay on the phone with me. Okay? Yep. Are you with her right now?

Yes, I am. How old is she? She is... No, she's 21. 21? Is she conscious? No, she's not. Is she breathing?

No, she's not. Up to this point in his life, the most serious thing Jordan has faced was final exams. Now he's kneeling beside the woman he planned to marry, trying to save her life. The dispatcher checks to make sure the attacker is not. no longer there, all while relaying information to officers already en route. The caller has no idea. He just walked in and found his girlfriend like this. Color has no idea who would have done this. Is there any serious bleeding? Okay. There is serious bleeding. Yes. Okay. I'm sending an ambulance to help you. I want you to

stay on the line with me so I can tell you what to do next, okay? Okay, okay. Did you say she is or she is not breathing? She's not breathing. She's not breathing. Okay, stand the phone with me so I can tell you how to help her, okay? You're right by her now? Yes. All right, I want you to lay her flat on her back on the ground. Yep.

Remove any pillows. Okay. Okay. You need you to kneel next to her and her mouth and look in her mouth for any food or vomit. Is there anything? Is there anything? Just blood. Just blood.

Just blood? Brittany isn't breathing. Her airway is filled with blood. and she has no pulse. The dispatcher talks Jordan through CPR, but she knows it might already be too late. And when Jordan rolls Brittany on her back, he notices something he cannot make sense of.

Did you think she did this herself? No, she couldn't have. She couldn't have done it herself, and there's no weapon nearby? No, no, there's gunshot wound. You're inside with her? You're inside with her? Yes, I am.

It might be a stand. The dam wound? Yes, I'm not sure. They're piercing. They're small piercings. The dispatcher stays with him, guiding him, reassuring him, while also coordinating the incoming police units. She switches between comforting Jordan and delivering updates to officers racing towards the

scene. The address is 517 West Doty. 517 West Doty Street. It's apartment number one, the lower flat. Female is T&B, and he's now saying that it could be a stabbing wound rather than a gunshot. Then she has to jump right back into the fray with Jordan. Okay, no idea who might have done this at all, right? I have no idea.

I have no idea. Okay. Can you feel or hear any breathing at all? No, I can't. I've checked for a pulse and I can't feel anything. Okay. Okay, just so you know, there's an ambulance on the way and the officers are on the way as well, okay? She tells him help is coming.

But in moments like this, seconds stretch into hours. Finally, officers arrive and usher Jordan inside. Police reached the apartment at 1.10 p.m., less than 2 minutes after dispatch. They check on Jordan, then clear the house, room by room, upstairs and downstairs, making sure the attacker isn't still inside. Only then do they move toward Brittany. It was too late to help her. The officers informed dispatch that the victim was deceased

and the call became a homicide investigation. When detectives arrived at the scene, they were confused. There was forced entry, but nothing was stolen. Brittany most likely was working on her computer, filing out federal grant forms. when someone interrupted her. Her desk was messy with tax documents. From the doorway of their bedroom,

detectives saw blood on the bed and the floor. Further checking revealed her cell phone. The battery was missing, and it looked like someone had deliberately damaged it. They found it hidden under other garbage in the trash can. Who would want a 21-year-old microbiology student dead? and why? It was a broad daylight murder with no clear motive,

and it would take 12 years for Madison Police to uncover the truth. The midday murder of their only daughter had a devastating effect on the Zimmermans. They wouldn't see her graduate or get married. She would never have a career, a family, or a life. The date of her death would replace her birthday, for her parents, and they would spend the next 12 years fighting for justice, for Brittany. Her fiancé Jordan found her lifeless body on their bedroom floor and called 911. The police made a mad dash to the crime scene.

When it was determined that Brittany was deceased, the investigation started. The entire street from intersection to intersection was cordoned off. Officers secured the scene. They started to make contact with the name. neighbors and left dash cams running to capture anyone walking in the area. Jordan had just seen her at 1130. What could have happened in the last hour and a half? They hoped whoever killed her was still in the area, so they started canvassing.

Quickly, dispatch uncovered some investigation that might have been related. Police and fire. Calling to report a suspicious incident that just happened at my house. because I thought I should tell someone just in case something happened. What was the incident? Some guy walked into my house and just opened our door and came in and was asking me for money and he like came up our stairs. Okay, and how long ago was this?

About maybe 10 minutes top. The caller lived on West Washington Avenue two blocks away and a straight shot down an alley from Brittany's apartment at Doty Street. Okay, and you don't know who this person was? No, I have no idea. He said that him and his wife had a flat tire on East Washington Ave and that he needed $40 to buy a tire. Okay, did he walk into your apartment? Yes, he walked into our house and came up with stairs.

Okay. The possibility that this man with a flat tire could be involved couldn't be overlooked. With no idea who killed Brittany, anyone was a possible suspect, especially a middle-aged man going from door to door asking for money. For units on this channel, this is really just information for you. I don't know if it has anything to do with your call or not. 5 to 5 to 5.5 West Washington Avenue, 5 to 5.5 West Wash. Our caller there says that about 10 minutes ago,

a complete stranger walked into her house without any permission. Ask her for money for a flat tire white nail 50s, gray hair, gray t-shirt, red sweatshirt tied around his waist. That call would give a new theory on who killed Brittany. While she was an extraordinary person, her life was otherwise rather unremarkable, aside from her academic achievements. She didn't have enemies wanting revenge or jealous friends. She didn't owe anyone money and didn't have any to steal.

She hadn't wronged anyone in any serious way. But considering the other 911 calls in the area, the idea that the murder was committed by a stranger at random became very likely. Then there was another 911 call. 911, what's the address of emergency? I'm sorry, this isn't an emergency. I don't know if you can transfer me to a non-emergency line or if I should tell you. This is fine.

What's the problem? My neighbor's directly across the street. There are some kind of old men, I think, drinking from a bag, sitting on the porch and looking in the windows. And I was just worried that there might be a vincillian burglary or something along those ones. This caller was a college student like Brittany and Jordan. He was waiting for the bus to take him to school when he noticed some suspicious activity. How many people were there?

Just two older men. I figured they were just taking a break or something, but I was worried they were looking at the mailbox or something like that, too. To be clear, this call was about two other men, not the man with a flat tire begging for money. These two men were sharing a drink from a paper bag while looking through windows and rifling through mailboxes. It was certainly suspicious, and with the early theory that a stranger murdered Brittany, it was even more so. But to understand the obstacles in the investigation into Britney's death, you have to know about the neighborhood she lived in. She lived on West Doty Street just off South Bassett Street in the Bassett neighborhood. Is it Bassett or Bassett?

I guess it's the same difference between Boudet and Boudet. Who gives a shit? This area was sometimes called the Student Triangle because of the proximity to the university campus only six blocks away. The neighborhood was a mix of students and apartments, families and small houses, and a few long-term low-income tenants. Oh, and transient foot traffic. The downtown area had homeless shelters, drop-in shelters, and a bus depot. With a mix of college students and transients, the area had a high call volume, so the police

were there often. At the same time, there were roughly 1,400 service calls a year, and one-third of those were for panhandling and other loitering complaints. So, when all the evidence set the scene of the crime pointed to a random person murdering Brittany, the police knew they had a difficult investigation on their hands. But the man with the flats higher, entering people's homes and invited, was their first possible lead. What were the time frames of when she called and when we had done it called a five-one-seller? It was about a five-minute last between the call, so exactly about.

about 15 altogether. Or about 15 altogether. Yeah. That description for second detailers, I want you to check in the area. I want a couple of you to go down to Stade Street and check around that area. And that's just, you know, three, four, five block area, circle the area looking for that party. Once you're done doing that, then I need folks to respond down to passes.

And police work coincidences are rare. So the idea of a man walking into someone's home within 15 minutes of a home invasion and murder, set off alarm bells. The police would quickly locate the man with the flat tire. He was known to the department as an active panhandler. David Kahl would walk around the neighborhood asking people for money at random, with some made-up story to elicit sympathy. Turns out, this homeless guy had exhausted his entire friends and family list for help.

They had all had enough of them and said, no thanks. And now society was left to deal with them. By the time they had an official interview, he was already in jail on a probation violation. Fifth OW failed to register because I was homeless at the time. Okay. Okay. Okay. For all right.

All right. And that was good to have to do with the houses downtown, that kind of thing? No, that was borrowed money like from businesses and stuff. Okay. And asking the same thing paying him. Oh, okay. All right. All right.

Carl had a lengthy criminal record stretching over 16 years at this point. He had a couple of counts of manufacturing and delivering a controlled substance in 92. In 93, he was charged with theft and second-degree sexual assault. In 2002, he was charged with possession. of THC. In 2006, he was charged with failure to register as a sex offender. Are you exhausted yet? Because it's getting old.

Anyway, a few days after that, he was charged with his fifth OWI, or operating a motor vehicle while intoxicated. That kills people, you know. But after learning about his history and talking to his parole officer, they didn't see him as a suspect. They saw him as a source for some reason. Detective Woods and I are investigated in a number of different things, okay? And we're not here to jam you up any further than what you already are.

Okay? That's not our purpose in life and with this interview, okay? I already know, you know, I know about all the downtown stuff, you know, going to the houses and that kind of thing. Yeah. As well, like I said, I talked to your P.L. this morning, he says, you've always been decent with him and that he didn't expect that we would have any difficulty talking to you today. And I don't have any reason to believe that you're involved in anything right now. I think that maybe you might be a witness to some things that you can help us out with.

David Kahl shifted in his seat with a blank expression. He was 42. But his white stubble beard and quickly graying hair made him look older than he was. His receding hairline didn't help matters either. He was of average height, but a little bit of average height, but a little bit of, on the thin side. He grew up on his parents' dairy farm and considered himself a farmer. But he never graduated high school, and since 1992, when he was 26, he'd been in trouble with the law and spent several stints in prison. It didn't sound like he was much of a farmer.

But he was a perfect informant. What I'd like to do, if it's okay with you, could I give you some photographs and you tell me if you know these people and how you know that? Okay. We're talking about people that we're doing, you know, we're out on the street like you were, you know, maybe with some scams, maybe going into houses and things like that over the course of time. He looked at each picture the officers showed him.

They were all people who frequented the area around Brittany's home. Some he recognized but didn't know or couldn't place. Most he didn't know at all. Next photograph is going to be number 9-0.0. 0 69896. Again, 9.0069896. That's Dawn. I know heard.

Yeah. Where do you know Don from? I was walking out with her the other day. Okay. What the police contacted you or? Before. Before the police contacted you. Okay.

Probably from like 11 until about 3 o'clock I was with her. Finally, he recognized some. He said that the day Brittany was murdered, he was with a woman named Don. Together, they teamed up and started going door to door, asking for money. The police had already talked to Don, but she couldn't or wouldn't cooperate, which was fine because police were more interested in the other two men they crossed paths with that day. Can you describe to me the couple of guys that were with her? Those were supposedly Mitchell or Michael and then Hank.

So Mitchell or Michael and Hank? Yeah, and also the guys I gave him to this Kirk Cunuch. Okay, uh-huh. And can you, just in one more time for us, can you describe Mitchell or Michael for us? Mitchell has long blonde hair, ponytail. It was tied back. He's got a scar on the right cheek. And Kurt Douglas Dipple right here.

Okay. And so then can you describe Hank to us? Hank is black. Okay. Short, real short curly hair. It's even got like, it's not even like an a half over me. It's, you know, it's short and curly, but it's like spaces in between it. Okay.

So do you think it's, oh, thinning or where do you think? Finning, okay. The reason they were so interested in these two men was that while Coles M.O. was to ask for money for a flat tire, they had other methods. Those guys looked like for open windows climbing too and stuff like that. Like in an alley, they'll walk in between two houses that windows open and that's their kind of scheme.

Okay. So just looking for open windows? Open windows knocking on doors and I don't know what there also was. Mine was, like I say, for a flat tire. But I remember earlier that day me and Dawn walked down. You know it was Doe here the street over. There was like two different girls down there. And I remember her telling them guys because I got my $40 out of the girl,

but the girl had a lot of money. And I remember she was telling them guys, such and such dress down there, they got more money. I don't know. Okay. Call said the other two men were in the habit of burgling people. They would knock on the door and, if no one answered, look for open windows. Once inside, they would steal everything worth money, laptops, cameras, cash.

Anything. The police started to wonder if these two men entered Britney's home without realizing she was inside. And then the worst happened. Don told them that guys right away, well, let's go back and rob them. I ain't into rob them, nobody. All of a sudden, scamming. I mean, they wanted to go back to rob something. I was like, I ain't into that shit.

There you go. Because Don's like, man, shit, like $2,300 more, you know. Let me, let's try to do this. But I know what I left, the dumb guys are going to go. back down to see if they could get some money. Okay. Well, that's when I knew I better hear it because they were being stupid to go back in the same. Absolutely.

He was incredibly forthcoming, sharing everything he did and everywhere he went that day. He even openly admitted to any petty crimes he committed. Now, am I being in charge for this? No, not the things that we're talking about here today. Okay, what I'm trying to do is place you in particular locations at particular times and trying to help your memory so that we can try to find out who was in certain areas in that downtown area at different times. No, I'm not, like I said, I didn't come here to data, you know, to hanging up with that. And certainly, you've never done anything in a violent way to these people.

There's no evidence of that whatsoever, and that's what's, that's sort of why we're here talking to you today, because we know that violence is not your, violence isn't your way to go ahead and get money. You were being successful enough on your own. Call had an easy-going demeanor with detectives. He was extremely polite, and even all the people he panhandled from described him as such. He reviewed all the pictures the police provided and helped create a timeline of his movements that day to determine where other transients were and when. You know, you've been honest with us here today.

I mean, you're certainly not a suspect in any of those cases. Well, we'll try to drum up Mitchell and Hank, and if you hear anything in here when you get back into population about other people that might know them or whatever, and you could give us a tip on that. The interview ended with Call providing a buckle swap for DNA testing. The detectives left with a new direction, finding Mitchell or Mark, the man with the ponytail and the Kurt Douglas Dimple. and Hank, the black guy with thinning hair, they would search for months with no luck. If these guys were responsible, they were lying low. April faded and May turned into June,

before detectives realized it was July. In September, when there was still no arrest, Brittany's mother even used money set aside for her wedding in Hawaii to help fund a reward. During that time, a crime lab was processing DNA from the scene. Now, this is 2008 when DNA testing wasn't as advanced as it is today. The samples taken from Brittany's crime scene were mixed, meaning they included two or more DNA profiles.

Even so, they quickly found a match. The bad news was that it matched a DNA profile from an unsolved burglary at the Blue Moon Bar and Grill back in June. A link to another unsolved crime didn't help, and it only made the theory of a transient stranger committing the murder even stronger. So they went back to talk to call again. Nothing has changed you, Dave. I can't be any more explicit with you.

Okay. We are not considering any other charges against you no matter what you tell me and Sam today in this interview regarding the peripheral stuff about what you were doing. We don't care about that. Okay. Our focus is who killed Brittany. I thought she caught the guy. No, that was on the Marino one, the guy that was on West Shore that got killed like in January. We did catch him.

Somebody was saying something on the news or something. Yeah. They already caught the guy or something. He called that guy. This is the girl. And I thought they had DNA too or something on a knife or something. That was from the Marino case. The guy they got killed back in January a couple months before the one we're working out.

Okay. Because they said they also found DNA. or whatever and supposedly arrested somebody on the... Yeah, there were certain cases. Carl seemed even more eager to talk with detectives than last time. He casually talked about the case, even cracking jokes. He'd been in jail for a few months by now. He had plenty of time to think about that day to remember.

Do you know the victim's name is? Do you remember what I'm telling you? Brittany. Okay. Do you remember seeing the house that Brittany lived in? Yeah, it's easy. At some point earlier that day or any of the time, did you knock at that door?

I have no idea. No recollection because I was bouncing from street to street, house to house. Do you remember how many houses on her street that day, Dave, you might have made contact? Probably almost all of them. Out of all of them, do you have any recollection of how many you might have had people home that came to the door when you knocked or rang? It wasn't a whole lot of people home. The conversation turned to Hank and the other guy.

detectives brought in a new set of photos to see if call recognized any of them he didn't then the conversation turned to dawn is she any help at all i mean she's dizzy i know that but what could we use against her to get her to be more cooperative if she wasn't being cooperative i don't know anything that you have to have something charges or something on it probably There's no chance that Hank and Mitchell are in that book. No. Absolutely not. No, I know their faces yet.

Okay. Yeah. I'd tell you, because I'd rather have you talk to them. I keep other than you. I know. But they did do something like that. Like I say, they did mention about robbing a few people at night point. Strangely engaged, Call was asking more questions than the detectives.

Was she raped at all? I can't tell you that. Why? What is that? I just was wondering. Any instincts on that? I just was wondering if she was raped or not. Just something we can't give about, but.

You understand we keep a lot of, we try to keep a lot of information. Because I figured that's another reason why they picked me up, too, because I had a sexual assault. Do you guys have anything at all? I mean, yeah. We've got a bunch of stuff we're working. And every day new stuff comes in, but still. Do you think it was Hank and once? Until we can find them and talk to them,

we can't eliminate them. So that's what we need to find out who they are. If you can... Has any homeless people on the sketches identified them and said that they've seen them? Because, I mean, if I committed to murder, I'd sure tell you down to Madison. Madison's small.

I mean, I wouldn't want to stick around in Madison. Yeah. I mean, I'd take off. I mean, if I would have killed her, I would have been gone. You guys have never found me this day. I would never even went back to my apartment. I mean, that seems logical, right? Yeah.

While the police continued their search for the two mystery men, the public wanted answers. They needed to know that they were safe in their own homes. That's when the public backlash started. The news media started requesting public records, but when the requests were fulfilled, some records were withheld, others delayed and most were redacted.

The news media smelled something fishy and pushed back requesting more and more records. They requested 911 call logs, dispatch records, audio recordings, dispatcher notes, and even internal reviews or audits related to the 911 call center. When that two failed, they filed suit. There were substantial revelations that brought into the public, domain as a result of this lawsuit. The public was in fear and suddenly realized the police were withholding things from them. What revelations were made public, you might be asking?

Well, settling the lawsuit forced the city to release another 911 call. Including the fact that the tape did contain sounds of a struggle and screaming. The 911 call had been marked as incomplete. or mis-dialed. In other words, the operator didn't hear anyone on the line, but the call in question came from Brittany's home. 911, what's the address with the emergency? Hello, 911.

The police were aware of this very early on but didn't inform the public. They said the state of the phone systems at the E911 Center made it so that the operator did not hear the screen. It was only after they pulled the recording. that they noticed. In the recording, it was clearly a woman screaming. Then they heard what sounded like someone saying, stop, along with the sounds of what could only be an assault. Then the line disconnected. Per protocol, the operator called the number back. Hi, Benkney 911 calling. Your phone called us.

911-911. Were you just using the phone? Okay. It's 9-1-1. Oh, we may have pressed that red button on this. Oh, that was an accident. Yeah, that was an accident, yeah. Okay, all right. We just have to check then.

Yeah, okay, thanks. Come on, bye-bye. Bye-bye. But this forced transparency caused outrage. Not only were two men on the recording, but Brittany called 911 nearly an hour before her fiancé Jordan found her. This revelation would lead to the Zimmermans filing a wrongful death lawsuit against the city in 2009. They would settle the suit the following year and put all the money towards a scholarship fund in Brittany's name.

They said it wasn't about the money. It was about not letting this happen to anyone else. The E911 Center would undergo many equipment upgrades and dispatcher training. A lot of covering your ass after the damage. is done. But while the police were dodging the public outrage, they received an anonymous letter in late 2009. The letter was from the Fox Lake Correctional Facility. It claimed an inmate with the initials of FR and his friends killed Brittany. The detectives investigated this anonymous tip, but nothing came out of it. Around this time, the case also lost its first lead detective,

who transferred out of the department. With his departure, the next detective would have to start all over again. The new detective revisited all the evidence, including the DNA. They resubmitted the samples and they reprocessed them. By 2011, the mixed samples were degraded, but the technology had improved. When they got the results back, they knew they needed to speak with David Kahl. again. You were going door to door in Brittany's neighborhood that day, right?

Yeah. Okay. Me and Dawn and them other guys. Other guys, meaning these two guys we're talking about? There's some evidence. I mentioned you some evidence that came up. As you can imagine, in the homicide, we had the crime and processed everything. DNA was developed on some things that Brittany had on at the time she was killed.

and that's the main reason Detective Lukeine I wanted to sit on and talk to you today that DNA is consistent with your DNA and that was just developed recently Can you explain why your DNA would be on in her house even? No idea of us. It was one of the houses that we were breaking into that day.

How many houses did you break into? I mean, them guys, like I see, we go in there and we break. Okay, and don't go through stuff looking for jewelry, lab tops. Okay. While Carl's story had been consistent for years, this time he revealed more.

He had been with two other men, helping him burgle homes for items to sell. He offered this up as a possible explanation to how his DNA could have even ended up at Brittany's house. The DNA that we have could not have gotten there by you being in simply her apartments. would have been it's there because you touched her, she touched you, okay? Okay. That's what I'm saying to you.

Well, am I being charged with anything yet? No. No, absolutely not. Why, I mean, I don't know what to say yet. I mean, you know, I cooperated all the way with you guys. You have, and we appreciate that, and that's why we ask you to come back. No, you've got B and A from me. I mean.

And we're trying to figure that out. Yeah, yeah. So I best talk to a lawyer. I mean, when you're approaching me, he said the only way to get there is if I touched her or something. So that's pretty fucked up right there. I mean, whether I shook her hand that day, like I say, I remember her now because of the pictures and the faces,

you know what I mean, being on the news. But at that day, when everything happened, I didn't remember if that was one of the people that had hugged. He said maybe he did ask Brittany for money that day, but he didn't recall it. If he did, maybe he shook her hand or gave her a hug. But after that, he thought it wise to consult a lawyer. The reason he wasn't being charged then and there is that police were hoping for a confession. The reprocessing of DNA didn't provide a match.

Call wasn't a perfect match, but he couldn't be accepted. excluded either. Remember, DNA samples were mixed and degraded. This is the best the lab could do. The district attorney's office wouldn't prosecute with so little evidence. Without a confession and call lawyering up, the case started to stall. The next year in 2012, another detective took over the case. It continued to drift. In 2014, the department got a new chief. With the regime change, the department underwent restructuring. 2015 provided no new leads either. Then, in 2016, a tip came in.

A man named Skolls said that Call confessed to him while in prison together. This would have cinched the conviction, except that Skulls was leveraging this information to obtain a pardon. Jailhouse snitches with a motive are rarely credible. This claim wasn't immediately considered a reliable lead. It got stuck in internal administrative channels before ever going to detectives. That same year, the new detective met with call. The interview lasted only two and a half minutes before he politely shut it down.

David, we have an interest in having a conversation with you. We are not here for any reason that you are currently here. But before doing so, we have to make sure you understand. understand that you have rights. I know you've had your rights spread to you in the past. Do you know how many times you've had your rights spread to you in the past? Not often. Okay.

Have you had your rights read to you in the past? Yeah, a few times. Okay. A few times is an understatement. Call had spent the eight years since the death of Brittany in and out of jail for various charges. He knew the routine. And with the lingering fear of DNA and now the claim by skulls,

Call wasn't willing to cooperate. Having these rights in mind, do you wish to talk to us now? I'd rather not, but my attorney advised me not to. Okay. He was up here a week or two ago and said, don't talk anymore. Okay. So, there you go. I've been cooperating, like I say, since the Gengel.

This is about that Britney's a run of murder. And then he asked me questions about Andrews Foles. And I sent a letter, I think it was to Detective Miller, with Andrews' calls, calling me a rat, killing him under the bus, and why he's going to try to make a deal with you guys or something, supposedly. So I just, whatever, I remain silent. He said you just try to pin it on somebody, and anybody that you can get, you're going to pit it on. I'm done operating. Well, we are only interested in the truth.

I'll say that not to you, but in general. Yes. And that is your right. Okay. Thank you very much. Yep, thank you. Another attempt at getting a confession from a man who consistently claimed he wasn't involved. The always polite call chose to remain silent.

2016 would end and 2017 would start. With the new year came yet another new deter. A full review of the case started yet again. But before the claims of Andrew Skulls could be vetted or verified, he died in a motorcycle accident. By the time anyone considered the tip a viable lead, he was already gone. This brought investigators to the 10th anniversary of Brittany's death in 2018. Her family was still waiting for answers. after 10 years.

The community had largely moved on. The case had survived longer than the people assigned to it. What no one realized yet was that the piece of evidence that would finally break the case had been sitting in a storage locker for nearly a decade. For years, police had DNA, but not the kind that gives answers. The samples from Brittany's apartment were mixed. her DNA was everywhere whatever the attacker left behind was tangled up with it

the testing could only rule people out but it couldn't point to exactly one person David Call could not be excluded it could not be charged either as the years passed and technology improved detectives kept trying the results stayed the same too much doubt

not enough proof. Hell of a system. Until one day in 2020, something finally changed. But before moving forward, police returned to the one man they had never been able to rule out. David Kahl.

How much do you know about Brittany? Nothing. Just that she was murdered. She was a college kid. She loved animals. She wanted to go to bed school. It was her major. she was a little other guy she was engaged to and I'm not trying to pull into

heart strengths here it's just I'm explaining to you why this is a serious case that the Madison police department in our offices kept looking at for years your story you know over time is different okay and I think I don't know how much you remember of different times you've said things and it's changed a little bit in today's little different times I was drunk right and I get that yeah And your DNA does, based on how today's science folks, is telling us that it's very likely that it's your DNA on Britney's sleeves as well as especially your genes, okay? It had been 12 years since Brittany's murder, and Call had aged quite a bit. He was now 53 years old and looked every bit of it.

He had gained weight, and what little hair he had left was even more gray. But he had been confronted with DNA evidence before, so he remained calm as he heard the detective out. Do you know more about what happened to her? And what you're worried about is that you're the person, all the evidence points out, but you still aren't the most culpable person in terms of what actually happened to her. We're just trying to figure out if there are other people involved. Is there anything else you can think of that you can tell us, or something that you haven't wanted to talk about,

that you feel is important that we know about what happened. Not just for Britney's sake, but for your own sake, in terms of I was there or something happened, but I'm not the person who strangled her and stamped her. You know, she basically died of a really miserable death. Detective Nail reminded Call that he had previously admitted he was involved in burglaries that day. Call said he didn't remember that at all.

Twelve years is a long time to remember every detail of a story he gave, especially when it's just a story and not something that actually happened. If you guys had entered this place and maybe she came home and found you or you guys surprised her, again, I need to, I mean, that's what I need to know. Yeah, I wasn't in there. I borrowed money from her. their bathroom. I believe I had a glass of water, and then I left. You do remember being in Brittany's place then?

Yep. Okay. Yep. Suddenly, for the first time, he remembered being in Brittany's apartment. He even remembered specific details about using the bathroom and drinking a glass of water. Where was all this recollection all these years ago? Even getting a glass of water and using the bathroom, I'm not sure how that gets your DNA on her pants. Even with flaws in his claims pointed out, Call stuck to it. He wasn't involved in Britney's death. But the evidence said otherwise.

After all these years, the detectives just wanted to put the Zimmerman's mind at ease. I got to say, I'm sorry, but you love your mom. But Brittany has a mom out there who love her so much, and she deserves to know even just a little bit of what you can tell us. Detective told him they believed they had enough evidence to implicate him, but they wanted to know whether anyone else was involved. Call, though, never cracked. He stuck to his newest version of events.

He never confessed to anything. On April 2nd, 2008, almost 12 years ago, Britney Zimmerman was killed in her downtown Madison apartment. Today, I can announce that criminal charges have been filed in her death. David Call, a 53-year-old male, has been charged in Dane County Circuit Court with first-degree intentional homicide as a party to a crime and with a dangerous weapon.

In the years that have passed, her case never went cold and was never anything but a priority for MP. Investigators worked tirelessly over the years, following leads, conducting hundreds of interviews, processing countless pieces of evidence, and producing thousands of pages of police reports. Brittany's parents, Kevin and Gene, have remained heavily invested in the case over the years.

They've met regularly with MPD investigators and MPD leadership. They're asking for privacy during this difficult time. Call is currently incarcerated in the Wisconsin prison system on unrelated charges. At some point, he'll be transported to Dane County for proceedings in connection with this case. This was truly a senseless crime, taking the life of a young woman with a bright future. Nothing we do can change that. But my hope is that what happens today will be a significant step in the process

to do justice for Brittany and for her family. Thank you. Finally, David Kahl was charged with first-degree murder, intentional homicide. When Detective Nail took over Brittany Zimmerman's case in 2017, he didn't start with suspects. He started with boxes, evidence bags, old reports, things that hadn't been touched in years. He didn't just review it. he re-evaluated it. That's when he saw it. The anonymous letter from 2009 implicating an inmate by the initials, F.R. The contents of the letter had been deemed unreliable and it was filed away in a box. But Detective Nail was thorough and sent the letter and its envelope for

DNA testing. The test results proved that the letter had been penned, licked, and sealed by David Call. The DNA on Brittany and in her apartment wasn't a perfect match, but the DNA on the envelope was, without a doubt, a match. The Zimmermans were beside themselves, with relief and the odd sense that

the emotions they had been dealing with for over a decade would soon be gone. I, and along with my parents, have become emotionally, cut the scar. and numb. My family have been waiting 12 years, eight months, and one day for this. It would be said for us to be able to see this individual.

During Call's arraignment, he stood silent, and a not guilty plea was entered on his behalf. But two years later in 2022, he would agree to a plea deal and plead guilty. To count one first degree in intentional home, homicide, what is your plea? Guilty, Your Honor. Are you pleading guilty because you did intentionally cause the death of Britney Zimmerman? Yes, Your Honor.

Call admitted he killed Brittany. He saw her getting home from school and followed her, breaking into her apartment. He likely gave the usual spiel about needing money for a flat tire. You know the excuses you hear just outside Panera bread from the homeless man who you're going to sign a Disney-like storyline to whereas he's closer to a virus, a plague on society. Something that rots it from within. But you do you and you can be as generous as you like with your spirit change.

His family wasn't, his friends aren't, if he has any, but you can go ahead and think the best and over a couple quarters. Go right ahead. Enjoy. Brittany didn't fall for it, though. She refused to give him any money and started to call 911.

That's when he snapped and attacked her. She fought back. Furniture was knocked around in the struggle. So he wrapped his sweatshirt around her neck and pulled it tight. He got up on top of her and stabbed her 19 times in the check. Then he fled and spent the next 14 years pretending it never happened. Homeless people don't get homeless by accident, you know. It's rarely ever the sob story you hear on publicly supported airwaves.

Anyway, during the sentencing, Brittany's aunt addressed the court. We, as a family, have nothing but pain. We have nothing but daily reminders, and we've had nothing. nothing but torture for 14 and a half years while he did his soul searching to decide to come clean. I think it takes a lot of audacity for someone in custody to request a transfer from the county jail to the state prison because he thinks he will get better medical care after he has stripped my family of an incredibly, loved an amazing human who wanted to do nothing but good things in this world. Then David Kahl addressed the court and the family with an apology that was anything but

sincere. I would like to apologize to everybody, especially the Zimmerman family. I took away Brittany's 21-year-old life. family that you couldn't have had. I just feel horrible. I was... I feel horrible. And I'm accepting the punishment that I got coming.

The apology fell short of giving the Zimmerman's any comfort. David Kahl just seemed like an old man at the end of a rope. At the time, Call was seriously ill. His years of hard living had finally caught up with him. His plea agreement seemed to be more self-serving than anything else. In prison, he would get better medical care, being the parasite he was. You did finally take responsibility for it you did, and you did plead guilty.

And as I say, you did spare her family and friends the agony of going through a public trial. but it does not negate the years of your obfuscation and obstruction regarding the investigation in this case. There is such a sense of loss and sadness and pain there. And the weight of almost 15 years to get to this moment was excruciating. It just was excruciating. So many lives have been tragically altered by your actions. Mr. Cole. I do conclude Mr. Call that you must be removed from society for the rest of your life.

The magnitude of your crime demands it. Your character demands it and the protection of the public demands it. It is the just and right thing to do. David Call was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of release. After sentencing, the Zimmerman family held a press conference. We knew in between basically that he had asked to stay there forever. Our thoughts on that were it was self-serving, as Kim had said. He only did it so that his family and his mother specifically would not have to hear the gruesome details of what he did to our daughter.

That is our belief. I guess I can't talk for him. But that is my belief in why he did what he did. I don't think he, you know, had a come-to-jesus moment, why he confessed all of a sudden 14 and a half year later, and he had to get it off his chest. I think he was scared to death. He knew, like, you know, it was that the walls were closing in.

He had no choice. After years of suffering and wondering if their daughter's killer would ever be brought to justice, the Zimmermans could finally relax. But in Brittany's death, death they found their voice, a voice to fight against injustice. What he did was unspeakable. And to not have the person responsible for that behind bars, it was unacceptable to us. So we were willing and we did whatever we had to do. Our family has been our number one supporters. I mean, my sister's been at every single solitary

thing with us. She is our speaker. This was every step, the lawsuit from to the 911 Center, etc. It was never about money. It was about doing the right thing for everyone else. So it was to make sure that there wasn't another parent who was going to lose their child to a dropped call. It was it was always about trying to do the right thing, which was what Brittany's entire life was about was doing the right thing. And that's in part what is so heartbreaking about the events of her murder is that she did everything right and that wasn't met by people doing the right thing for her. And so that's been, it's been the irony and the heartbreak of all of it.

Justice didn't give the Zimmermans their daughter back. It didn't give them the years they spent waiting or the milestones they'll never get to see. What it did give them was an end. ending and the knowledge that they never stopped doing the right thing. Over the years, that choice has cost them more than time. Brittany's mother used the money that had been set aside for her wedding to help fund the reward for information about her killer. They gave interviews.

They relived the worst day of their lives over and over again and again. They refuse to let the case and Brittany's voice go quiet. And because of cases like Brittany, something did change. Wisconsin law was updated to expand the circumstances under which DNA is collected from people in the criminal justice system. A shift meant to prevent evidence from sitting in limbo, as it did in this case. It didn't come soon enough for Brittany, but it may mean answers come sooner for someone else. And isn't that all we can do on this rock, on this spin around the sun? Just make it slightly better for the next person.

If you're homeless, you may not give a fuck, but if you care about the future of this thing, thing we are humanity, then you might want to do just that. That's going to do it for another episode of Sword and Scale. Thank you for joining us. If you have a technical issue, you can reach us at support at swordenscale.com. And if you have a complaint about our content and what I say, you can send that to our complaints department in your local trash bin. Otherwise, you can find everything else you'll want on our website.

app, go to swordsgale.com for more info, and we'll see you next week. Why don't you go and stay safe? Until then.