Table Manners with Jessie and Lennie Ware - Bonus Episode: Candice Brathwaite

Episode Date: March 28, 2022

AD. Thanks to PayPal we’re serving up an extra episode this week – a special bonus ep with the wonderful Candice Brathwaite who joins us to talk about her recent mission in empowering and encouraging people to open up conversations about money. In this honest podcast, we talk about her Carribean heritage, Saturday soup, her love of oysters & seafood, her obsession with macaroons & how she knows more about Sex & The City than Lennie! What an insightful woman. Listen here. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello and welcome to this extra helping of Table Manners, sponsored by PayPal. Mum, I love PayPal. When I didn't have internet banking, because I couldn't be asked to just go through all the hoops, I relied on PayPal for everything. I use that almost exclusively. I never, would always use it in preference to a credit card. Yeah, me too well thank you paypal because you've set us up on a bit of a blind date today we have the brilliant candice breathway coming to talk about everything from and just like that i'm not your baby mother fashion food eating out staying in paypal. I don't know. Bright colours.

We've got it all today. Did you dress up? I actually wore this brightly coloured cardigan. You've got the scarf on. Because I thought that I needed to make somewhat of an effort. I've even done a very big flick. You've got a big flick. It's a bit too much though, isn't it?

No, I like it. I mean, we love Amy. We love Amy. It doesn't matter, darling. It's fine. Anyway anyway i've been following her for a long time on instagram i love watching her wedding she mum when you see the outfit that she wore on her wedding chef's kiss amazing okay and her commentary on and just like that now i haven't finished what i've watched all of them okay well then you can have a discussion yeah but she's got a lot to say on it and uh yeah thank you paypal for bringing us together what are you cooking mom i noticed a recipe where mary berry oh um it might have been come up on instagram um for miso prawns

which i've marinated all day. What kind of miso? It's white miso paste with sesame oil and soy sauce, garlic, bit of chilli and lemongrass. And they've been marinating all day. I schlepped out and got prawns with big shells on as well so it would look nice. I'm going to cook it with pak choy

and serve it with jasmine rice sticky rice and endomami beans then for afters i'm doing what my lovely friend jill does she does these jill and johnny serve these tortas which are a spanish kind of biscuit made with olive oil. They're light. They're very, very light, sweet biscuit. And serve it with raspberries and creme fraiche on top. Not mascarpone? I've got mascarpone here. Well, then there's sweets and then the creme fraiche cuts through.

Yeah, it tastes delicious. I like it, Mother. I like it a lot. And I'm going to nick it for a dinner party that I'm going to do. Yeah, it's so easy and it looks fabulous. And you let the people open up the little packet themselves. So Candice Brathwaite coming up on this extra serving of table manners. I can't wait to meet this woman.

This woman is, I find her really inspiring. I think the way that she talks about parenting, she's really frank, she's always makes an effort. She, which I can learn a lot from, you don't need to learn. Actually, Mum, I feel like you should get into a brighter colour. Do you know what, Jessie? What? I'm not. Oh, okay.

Let Candice shine. I'll let her shine. Candice Brathwaite coming up on tape. Thank you for coming and doing this. No, thank you for having me. Thank you PayPal for setting us up. Literally. Thank you for having me. Like date.

I've followed you for a while and I'm so impressed by you and inspired the way that you talk about parenting, the way that you talk about I'm just like that which we need to discuss I know I can quote most episodes of Sex and the City

I love that I love it too but you're obsessed yeah I'm obsessed I'm obsessed and I didn't want to like I'm just like that but when you're that invested there are people this is it there are it i don't care how sick the storyline is i'm gonna be there i'm gonna be rooting for you i'm gonna love it so you started doing commentary yeah whilst watching yeah have you done this with any other never never

cared to just like not invested in the way that i'm invested in that the whole reason i've got the career i have is because in my mind carrie br Bradshaw was a real thing I was like you can write a few words you can buy lots of shoes that's the thing and then kids came along and changed everything but I'm still very invested in the idea or supporting the idea of of women carving out their own path in life like deciding not to have kids or deciding not to settle down. Like it's the joy of my life. I'm my only married friend. Oh yeah.

Yeah. But you got married recently. Yeah, November 2nd last year. So can I ask why you decided to get married? Was it always on the cards for you? No, it's the will, it's the money. It's the... It's like... marriage so we we've got we started a business together two years ago and our accountant looked at us and was like this is

actually more binding than marriage and if you two were to part ways this is going to be like the biggest fight you have why don't you just do it and i was like yada yada yada then esme was giving it the like you're the only two parents in my class that aren't married you know i mean and i was like oh for god's sake fine whatever and it's not that i don't love him i just don't tie the two together marriage isn't romance and i think girls aren't told that you're told from a young age, like, that defines romance. That is love, getting married. And I'm like, it's not. It's paper, and it's paper pushing,

and it's the ability to control... Do you know what I mean? And you really enjoyed that outfit. That? Show mum the outfit. So, look, I need to know... I do want to know that. Jess, would you do me a favour?

Would you turn the heating up a bit? All you need to do is turn the wheel as high as it will go. That was so polite of you. God, that's fun. You don't need to press the middle, just turn it up so it looks like 25, because I'm frozen, and she's got a little dress on here. I'm absolutely freezing today. Is it?

Darling, where did you meet your husband have you known him on twitter yeah he stalked me on twitter for two years choice of words yeah for two years and i was with a really bad guy and he literally waited until the tweets turned to like i've broken up and then he started dming me and then we dmed for weeks and then he was like oh what's your send me a link to your whatsapp and i still don't understand technology so i just sent the link not knowing that that was my phone number so then he called he was like hi i was like who's this he was like the guy you've been speaking to for six weeks the rest is literally that's like a courtship yeah six

weeks on twitter i know i know i was, ooh. And it's been 10 years. That feel like they've gone like that. God, how long has Twitter been going? That makes me feel... May. May. So was he from round here or Milton Keynes? Yeah, he was living in Clapham. And what I was doing at the time, very stupidly,

I would never do now, is I was running with a group called Run Them Crew. And I was pushing my stats to Twitter and not just my stats, my map, my running map. Oh my God, that's a stalker's delight. And what Twitter would do is then send that map to people who also lived in that area. So that's how he was even able to find,

because like, yeah. He was probably running around behind you and you didn't know. I'm like, I would never do that now. What's his mate? Matey, you. What's his face? Joe and you.

Hold on. But, you know, the first date, where was the first date? In a dungeon. No, at my house. He came to my house. We slept together on the first date. I was very much like,

there's nothing in this, you know, like this is a rebound, leave me alone. And he was very like, no, no, no, I think I'm going to love you. Is he good looking? A little bit. He's very handsome.

I want to see. Very handsome. You need to see the outfit too. Okay, let me find that out. But that is the, the registry office look. You see? No, look.

Because there was feathers. There was feathers. Yeah. She has a look for every look. Yes, mum mom there was that and then the evening was that oh wow but it was literally we planned that in 13 days i know you planned it in 13 days yeah so we went to the registry office knowing that you know covid's got everyone backed up or whatever um and what happened right we went to the registry office she was like you know covid's got everything backed up you're not going to get a slot for at least 18 months we're like we don't care she's typing someone cancels that

date as she's typing she's like actually you've got seven weeks now how about that i was like yeah great now throughout this whole time i've been, let's just go to the registry office, come home, eat mac and cheese. A few friends get to find out, and they're getting livid. They're like, we have stuck by you guys for 10 years. We need our night. It's not even about you. We want to celebrate. So, like, two weeks before the date, I was like, all right, let's do something.

And then we found a wedding planner, and she knocked it out in 13 days. But it was a 28-people guest actually i was really strict and i was home by midnight 10 30 i was drinking coffee i was being like go home did you do the styling a little i just chose the colors and then i i just allowed myself to trust her vision and for the clothes as well? Clothes was all me. Oh, please, Mum. You think she's going to let me? That feather, those pink feathers are something else. I hate going out shopping.

I feel like you need Candice to like. The hunt. It's the hunt. It's the... So where's your... Your shops, you go to different shops do you have a when you go yeah so i'm going here here and here yeah i've got a focus i've cut things out of vogel grazia and then i go to them and what looking for the wedding dress taught me is you go in there and

you always go what's in the back you always go that dress i wore on my wedding was on its way to landfill it was the back door of the stock room was open and i saw the dress hanging there and i was like what is that and where is it going she was like oh no we've got to chuck that away so the retail price on that was like 13 000 pounds and she gave it to me for 700 quid because it was going to the bin but so tell me how did you get together with paypal and you're on a bit of a mission oh yeah i'm on the mission we're like your last stop yeah i'm on the mission to encourage people to talk about money um paypal came to me because they saw me especially on tiktok really trying to encourage this conversation specifically amongst communities of color because it's like actually I think there's a survey the British public would rather

talk about sex and or death than money they yeah they don't want to talk about money and for me opening up about money I used to be in a lot of debt a lot of debt and this wasn't a long time ago this was like five six years ago and I saw this video where Jim Carrey had written himself a check of 10 million dollars it was just this random video I came across and he put it in his wallet and he signed it to himself and he put the date by which he wanted to acquire this money at the time he was sleeping in his car I think and my back was so against the wall I was like I'll give that a try I'm not necessarily back then I didn't even know what manifestation or the woo-woo was was like, I'll give that a try. I'm not necessarily back then. I didn't even know what manifestation or the woo-woo was.

I was like, I'll give that a try. So what did you do your check for? I wrote out five checks. I wrote out five. And in my mind, I was like, this is going to come from this publishing company. And at one point I had them pinned on the fridge and then I put them in my purse.

And within two years, every single check had been cleared in real life every I remember the day I was able to come downstairs until we were he was my boyfriend then and I was like listen not only can I pay off my debt I can pay off the debt you've gone into trying to get us to move out of London and he just stood there like you what I was like babe I know and how did you manage to clear those debts like what kind of what like what what was working was it the internet was like your friend yeah the internet was working so I was working in publishing when my daughter was about two I was working at a really good publishers in the marketing department and in 2015 the word

blogger was everywhere and I was spending my whole day on the phone to bloggers and when they were telling me what they were going to charge us to promote a book I just wrote little notes down like you are in the wrong job and how do you get on the other side of that fence? Then I was like, okay, you build an Instagram, you build a website, you do all of this stuff. Very Pisces of me. Once I'd made that decision, I quit that job three months later. I was like, I'm done.

And then did it start with you kind of documenting being a parent? Yeah. I noticed. So it was in that rise of mum, mumfluences? Yeah, mumfluences, mummy blogging. What I noticed. So it was in that rise of mum, mumfluencers? Yeah, mumfluencers, mummy blogging. What I noticed in that sphere is that there were no black women, not one. And it was all very white, very middle class, very polished, very nothing's wrong.

I've got this gorgeous kitchen island and this buggy that cost a grand. All of that. And I was like, okay, from a business perspective, that's my in. I'm like, I've got a kid and I don't necessarily see myself in this messaging so I'm gonna get online and speak about my experience as a black British mother now between quitting the job and seeing my first check it was like three years so I wouldn't advise people to do that but that was my way of betting on myself you're a kind of mummy blogger yeah

okay i know did it like did you have a discussion well your daughter was two right yes two like did you and this is not me judging you this is me being interested like but did you have a discussion with her about whether she was happy to be documented no no how does she feel does she kind of understand what your job is now or is she just like because does she understand because you have many different you wear different hats yeah so she gets it now but i would say back then i didn't ask and i wouldn't ask and i've got a friend who's in a similar job from a similar background and i'll be frank you you were too poor to ask i'm not i've got no interest if you want this camera in your face because this camera is the difference between eating or not so i'm not gonna do you know i mean i'm not i wasn't in

a position to sincerely think does she want to be in this ad it's like being it or wet yourself there we are now that things are a little bit more stable she's very vocal she's like i don't feel like doing that i'm like babe i hear you and now i've positioned myself to a place where no one thinks mummy blogger anymore when you say candies it's like not it's not the first thing that comes to mind sometimes bestseller that stuff do you like i mean you know the rain style it you know you do yeah this is it and um but it was it was a good jumping off point because like i said there was a gap in the market. So where did you start out? You started out in South London? Yeah. Who was cooking dinner and what were you eating?

Oh my God, who was cooking dinner? It was nan or grandad. So I was primarily raised by my maternal grandfather. My mum and dad split up when I was quite young. My grandad got mugged and he was left blind in one eye shortly before I was born. And back then that just meant you were deemed unfit for work because he was left blind in one eye shortly before I was born. And back then, that just meant you were deemed unfit for work because he used to work in construction. So he'd gone from like working in construction to now being a stay at home dad. And he did all the housework and the ironing and the cleaning and the cooking.

So he raised me. He took me to school from like baby to 10. Why did you go there instead of staying with your mum? So mum lived there, but she just worked so much i barely saw her what was she working i think she was like a sales assistant in the shoe department so that's where that habit comes from um which shoe department i think back then i think it was selfridges it was selfridges or harrods it was very and back then a sales i'm not saying it isn't now but a sales assistant like my mum would get proper dressed up and you know you were like so proud to like be on that council represent a certain brand but it meant i never saw her i saw my dad

every saturday we had a great relationship but granddad did the bulk of the cooking and i remember every saturday in our house it's a very Caribbean thing, Saturday soup. So just a massive pot of soup, chicken, green banana, all of the yam, all of that. And then there was something I hated. I still hate it actually. It's called cuckoo. It's a traditional Bajan dish

because my maternal grandparents are from Barbados. And it's like, I think it's like cassava or cornmeal um but then you slap flying fish on top and I love flying fish so I remember I just used to peel the flying fish off the cuckoo and like wipe the cuckoo off the fish and then eat the fish um of course rice and peas all of that just just hearty west Indian food but then also there was a great um fish and chip shop run by an amazing Greek family and I used to run there every Friday and that's when fish and chips still came in newspaper so are you a good cook terrible cook really terrible is her husband good brilliant cook god for that so what's really interesting about being with this guy right and i'm sure it was because i was raised by a granddad i never had an interest of doing quote unquote womanly duties and i remember

alongside saturday suit was saturday cleaning and so there'd be john holt playing in the background or marvin gaye or something and you've got to get up on the saturday and clean the house and i was just the laziest cleaner i was like i don't want to do who else was at home so it wasn't it was you had brothers and sisters no I wasn't only child up until seven then my sister came along and then my brother was born when I was 15 which is a chunky gap um and so I'm like I don't want to I just want to read I loved reading I was like why am I cleaning and I think what confused things in my mind so i see my nan leave the house every day at 4 30 and go to work she's the main breadwinner my granddad can't work then every friday night she sits on this old ottoman she pulls out her check

book and does all these stubs and she's got a calculator and she's looking over her glasses and then on saturday she's helping clean and i'm like make it make sense and so i think there was something in me that just repelled that and i remember when i met my very west african nigerian husband i was like what does cardi b say i don't cook i don't clean let me show you how i got this ring literally that is that is my life i'm like i don't i don't do that so yeah watching my nan every friday like sit on this ottoman and fill out these checks it really showed me how women could be financially empowered this was like the late 80s early 90s so a very different time and it's only now that i'm hearing that my granddad got the absolute piss taken out

of him by his friends for being that stay-at-home guy um but does he find it quite emasculating or not I don't think so I think deep down he really enjoyed it and I think that's why you've turned out so well do you know what yeah he would love to hear that and it's true I always credit him with everything because he was literally so invested in my schooling and you know just making sure that my my childhood was very protected for as long as possible but I think seeing my nan literally like flex the money and him stay at home it did set something in motion because that's how my household was for a really long time for a long long time, I was the breadwinner. And then my husband quit his job smack bang in the middle of the pandemic.

And I'd been begging him to. And I said, what was he doing before? He was like, see, I don't even know. He was like a manager at a construction company, not on site, but in sales, just spending lots of hours on the road going to speak to people and it was starting to affect my job and then what I was trying to break down to him is my job brings in more money I have to be frank and I wish that women could be frank and I'm like now we need to look at this through the prism of um what's best for the household it's not just that I make

more money are we missing out on making more and having better financial stability for the household it's not just that i make more money are we missing out on making more and having better financial stability for the kids because of your quote-unquote masculinity like make that make sense i agree and then in the middle of the pandemic his role really changed because now they had to chase debt all the time as a business he was like i'm so depressed i'm so unhappy and i'm just sitting there like baby now is the time the water is warm join me and he was like I'm scared but I'm gonna do it and he quit and things have never been better so now you work together yeah so what's your business so it's essentially a media company and he helps manage all the ads with my management he helps manage all the ads and now he's become an author

his book comes out in June so now it's like some kind of like you've liberated him I hope so and I do say again I'm really frank and I'm I'm I don't like hide my tongue I'm like listen if there's one thing I'm proud of is literally if I die tomorrow you've seen another version of life that is not you being tied to a nine-to-five that you despise Candice can I ask you so I come from we we're Jewish and we come from immigrant family and my grandma used to run what she called a club yeah and I know it's very popular with West Indians that you put money in, people put money in each week. Yeah. And then at the end of, so you say you have 50 people. Yeah. So you put £20 in each week.

And then at the end of 52 weeks, you'd have, how much? Oh, God. 20. Is it 20? Get a calculator. It's a lot. Okay, it's nice. It's healthy.

But it was a way of saving and putting money away. It was like a bank when immigrant families didn't use banks. They kept their money in their pockets. So West Indians, did you come across that? I knew of it. My grandparents used to dabble in that. It's called a partner. We call it a partner.

And beyond a partner, what they did is it was one of their best friends that lent them the money for the down payment of their house oh wow yeah and what happened then is i've gone on to find out they then did that for other people it was literally like you help me with my start i'll help you yeah and i just i kind of miss that community spirit when it comes to finances now like everyone's so guarded and especially in the media industry there's so much competition it's almost as if people don't want to say what they're being paid I'm really open especially if a woman emails me or comes to my dm she's like I've been approached by this brand I don't I'm very frank because I'm like what happens especially amongst

POCs is that what's a POC? So people of colour. I remember when I first started, like... Sorry, that sounds very rude, but I wouldn't... No, don't worry. I remember when I started, like, doing ads on Instagram and then I got some management. And I remember brands going to my management, well, we wouldn't pay Candice that

because there's a black girl down the road charging 200 quid. Like, they'd write this out this was in a pre george floyd floyd time so everyone's tongue was a little looser and so the reason i'm honest is because i'm like i don't want a black woman who's devaluing herself in a different postcode bringing the entire market down we all need to understand that this is the set price and your worth exactly yeah and i remember being on set one time and i found this out a lot later on with five white women and i found out they were paid like three grand and i was paid 200 quid you're joking no what did you do i did by the time i found out this was like two years later I found out so I was just like well sods law but um

yeah I bet they wouldn't know oh they wouldn't dare now so just what all the jobs you're doing at the moment I'm you're a writer yeah I've just finished my third book that comes out and I think it's called cuts both ways it's a young adult love story. Novel? Yeah. I'm doing fiction. Thank God. How is that? Absolutely the most fun.

Is that what you always wanted to do or not? Not necessarily. I thought I'd be a non-fiction gal forever. But the reality is my upbringing was quite traumatic and I'm tired of minding my life. And so it's nice to like toy with fiction and toy with characters. And one of the greatest things, the reason i actually fell in love with my husband is our bond over i can't

believe i'm saying this twilight oh my god literally that's what that's why esme's called esme oh my god i'm learning so much tonight. Oh my God. And so I was like, when the children's team approached me, were like, would you do a YA novel? I was like,

absolutely. Because that's what made us fall in love. Young adult. Yeah. Okay. I was like, we fell in love over that kind of story. You know,

you wanted to root for someone. And so, yeah, that's. So have you met Robert? I haven't. Okay. I went to see the someone and so yeah that's so have you have you met Robert I haven't okay I went to see the Batman and he's a really sexy Batman everyone says he's so good he's really good yeah he's a good actor he's a really good actor but like they've done like he's a bit of an emo Batman so like you want me to do food yes I'm a bit hungry and I've swizzled

um that's really fascinating it's a love story for the ages I stick by it I know the movies are so rubbish but it's that writing YA now I hate to be um it's the word gauche when you're a bit icky I don't know what the word is but writing YA now I was like that tingly feeling you get down below when you're like 15 that's that's what Twilight it was just like oh oh my god, are they going to do it? Oh my, like that. There's something so, so magical. So is it inspired by kind of Twilight?

Have you got any tingly feelings? Proper tingly. Not only do I have tingly feelings, my husband, my husband like threw the laptop across the room when we got to the end. He was like, this cannot end this way. I was like, that's the vibe i wanted cliffhanger literally literally give her the rights who's gonna give her the rights come on so okay you don't eat you don't you don't cook no but you must eat out i love eating so where out? Oh, so we went to this great restaurant for my husband's birthday called Stork,

this Nigerian restaurant in Mayfair. Oh, nice. He cussed it a bit because he's proper Nigerian. Okay. Was it two fancy pants? For him. Yeah, right. And I was like, babe, we're in Mayfair.

The portions were great. He was just like, it weren't spicy enough. I was like, babe, because that's going to blow anyone else's head off like you need to respect that so i'll go wherever i feels a bit like posh do you know where i used to love going though it's closed down now speedy noodle in brixton speedy noodle where was that that was literally next to mcdonald's yeah yeah all right oh my god That was Julia. Yeah. Oh, right. Oh, my God. Oh, the hearts are broken in speeding. That used to be the best place. So cheap, so cheerful. And now, so what I try to do now is,

especially when it comes to, say, my money and eating out, I always try to go for the top end. And I try to encourage people. I'm like, go to the closest of the top end of your budget just because I feel like... The experience. The experience and also I feel like any kind of luxury is malignant. It just brings more of that into your life.

It's like once you eat at a really good place or you have a certain level of service, you will try to find a way to do that again and again. Yeah, go to one that's got good reviews. Because some places are overpriced. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I've never really eaten that much West African food. But I went, have you been to Cheshire yet?

No. It's in Brixton Market. Yeah. It's delicious. Yeah. 45 quid for a set meal. That's it. Yes, the broth did nearly knock my head off.

But I survived. And it was, I lived to tell the tale. And Chishuru, Jay Rayner reviewed it, I think. But it was so good and really affordable. But also, like, but then don't get me wrong. Like, I, my husband and I are very different in how we approach it. He'd prefer me to cook because he likes my cooking. But I like, I like the whole experience of eating out look sometimes it goes one way or the other and it could be overpriced

and shit but sometimes it's all those extra bits that you're yeah you're paying for are heaven and some i think another place i don't know if it's i've not been to brixton in a bit so but there's a place there do you find it hard to be in brixton yeah totally i get a bit ptsd-ish really yeah it's just it's home like i remember pulling my nan's shopping trolley through brixton now though when i go back to brixton i can't just be me right because i was raised there it's like and everyone calls me candy they're like Candy, you're doing so well. There's just this pressure around being there, which is a shame. Because I did love it, but I just feel like I can't.

What's it like being in Milton Keynes? It's cheap. It's cheap. It's green. Would you ever come back to London? Yeah, but by myself. As in, I have these major desires of having a one-bedroom flat on the King's Road all right Carrie okay shit I'm like I well you better bloody put it

in your pocket and write it out and then it will happen provisions all there so that's that's like one major goal but we left London because of course yeah property prices are through the roof but when i found out i was having a son i was like i'm not staying here i am really not i'm obsessed for some reason with watching the data surrounding knife crime and i was like i can't do it i can't because I have started to understand I could keep him in the house until he was 16 and he could never be gang affiliated in his life it's wrong time wrong place and it's highly affecting black boys and I was like where can I go that's quick and easy to get into London but give me the illusion because now COVID's come along it's all an illusion give me the illusion

of safety and milton keynes just felt close do the kids like it they love it really they absolutely like we live on in milton keynes you have these parishes they're called estates and like you can literally let your kid play out and someone's gonna watch your kid everyone's in the whatsapp chat telling people off for driving too fast like it's what it's the childhood i remember the very early childhood i remember it's still available there do you talk to your kids about money all the time and how does that go down it goes down like esme trying to explain to me what apr is do you know what so she now goes to a fee paying school she comes home one day she's like mom i need a pound because we need to grow it next week i get on google i'm like right i don't know plants either so there's a plant called a pound google's not giving me anything i go back to esme i'm like

babe you've got this wrong she's like not a plant woman the money i was like you what she was like yeah miss so-and-so said give me a pound and next week in maths We're going to be taught how to grow it And with what we earn from the growth We're going to buy stuff for the playgrounds She was in year one I was like I don't know if they're Teaching that

My daughter's local comprehensive That's interesting Did you like it? I liked it So I'm still in this place of of guilt of new money guilt for choosing a fee-paying school yeah so and here's what i need to remember because i often skip steps she only ended up in a fee-paying school because at the local school she faced racism in reception class i swear to you what kind of so i mean i'm going to collect her my phone rings

the teacher's like oh i've got something to tell you a girl refused to play with esme because she's black today um but you know i gave her a two minute time out and made her think about things so sorry i didn't call you earlier poor esme so we turn up at the school big conversation meet the headmistress the headmistress is like i've got to be honest with you we're now involving a charity because we've noticed some of the children are coming to school with national front tendencies what i said darling we're out i didn't even write she one of the only black children there yeah she was like there's was only two in the whole primary school that's that's so even that milton keynes is quite diverse but the specific village we moved to was very white the kids were the kids national front tendencies so as I do because now

I'm heavy in exactly now I'm like heavy into the woo-woo what my husband doesn't know is I've been collecting private school prospectuses that have been coming through our letterbox and i've kept trying to like have this conversation with him because guess what we went to the open day of the fee paying school so many nigerian kids in her class it's like that's where you all are you're all over there and do you like it love it it's so hogwartsy i love and she's she's just having an experience that i just i look at i'm able to look at her in awe not just because she's now teaching me about money but she's just having a version of childhood i only read in books and so i'm like i'm like i tell her every day, go on, girl.

But I'm saying to me, go on, girl. Like, this is what you're working for so that she can just go out there and like play hockey and talk all this posh shit. I'm like, yeah. So we ask Candice, we ask everybody what their last supper would be. Starter, main, pud, drink of choice. Oh my gosh, you've got me there. Starter, okay, something like oysters. Ah.

Big oyster fan. We're going to do a king prawn something. Great. Pasta. So I used to be an au pair in napoli in italy how was that as a black woman as a black woman it's great as a foodie yeah so racist did you encounter racism when you were there oh absolutely but my host family had just recently adopted a kid from cambodia right so in my home in napoli it's very loving very diverse very open it's the streets of napoli that i navigated with great difficulty unfortunately forward slash fortunately dad died right in the middle of that excursion so literally i spoke to your dad yeah he died of the flu he died really suddenly oh my

god yeah so i spoke to him on wednesday and he was dead by friday oh my god i'm so sorry so that cut into that but what i learned about and like my host family would always say tutti a tavola so everyone to the table and the pasta and the heartiness and the coffee my last meal would have to be something italian what were they really were they good at cooking everything so good and it was just effortless effortless you didn't learn anything didn't learn didn't want to just would be at the table just like there and then um tiramisu for dessert you know where apparently the best tiramisu is and i probably said said this on Theo's. It's a

pizzeria in Camberwell. Yeah. Apparently it's the best tiramisu in London. See. Yeah, try it. I'm going to have to try it. But that would be me. That was very decisive. I know black people are listening like Jesus Christ love. No rice and... No, not at all.

And what drink? A gin and tonic. Stiff G&T. Hendrix, please. With a bit of cucumber. Yeah, that's it. What are the most memorable meals in Sex and the City? Like, what are ones that, like,

oh, obviously sushi. Samantha. Yeah, yeah. The most memorable... Well, yeah, that's not food, but... They didn't really eat. They didn't really eat. They were always kind of eating a salad having a chopped salad

so they went to that fusion restaurant once with that black chef where Samantha's like having sex with a black guy and his like sister owns a restaurant god I don't know what season this is but they didn't really eat Charlotte ate the most she actually she married the jewish yeah she she cooked the most does anybody want a little more i mean would you

like some more go on do it yeah i need to know so you're staying in a hotel tonight yeah is there a particular hotel is it going to be the king's road bed no it is in mayfair there's two of my favorites in in like posh sides you've got the the mayfair townhouse and when i really want to do it with the langham the langham i know is it lovely it's so delish it's a bit dated but there's something to that charming yeah i just it's the spa good do you ever use the spa is the best spa i've been to in london hands down really yeah i'm not even gonna lie and the service and now i've been going there long enough that they always do me a little deal oh we like that so i love a little deal it's quite it's quite nice to like be able to go to london for the night i know do you know what and i love london with all my heart like i was saying i only left because i wanted the

illusion of safety for my kids so have you got a big house with a swimming pool in milton not yet but we will do in april come on this is where we're all gonna go i'm like not so we are we are this close to closing. A new place. A new place. But you just renovated your place, right? I know. Do you like that? I love it.

But then I was like, I knew we were renovating to like put a plaster on a wound, if that makes sense. So we sold our house in an hour. Properties in Milton Keynes, I think post-COVID, they're not sitting there for five seconds because everyone's trying to get out of London. We bought one, it fell through. And I'm not going to lie to you, I was actively praying against the offers my husband was putting on, but I just didn't want to tell him. He was, like, going all to these houses, making offers,

and they just weren't it. I was like, in my mind, I was like, I don't like this, but I don't want to break his heart because he's doing all the footwork and the admin I get back from New York Sunday night our phones go dildo one of them house websites the house gets listed

the house I come alive I'm like that's the fucker and I want it and I want it now so all of a sudden everything's flowing we get in there Monday 1 o'clock office Monday, one o'clock. Offers accepted Monday, five o'clock. That's how I like it.

I turned to him and I said, you always wait for what you want. Like, don't try. He doesn't mind patchwork. I'm like, I will sit here and I will will the thing into fruition. And what happened with our dream house, on the day of exchange, their cellar's backed out. On the day of exchange, like, their stuff is in storage. They are good to go.

Their cellar's backed out. We go to view it. The owner's sitting in the living room. She's semi-in tears. We have a 45-minute conversation. And during that conversation, I'm like, I know this house is ours because we've made a connection with this woman. Like she knows all about the school our daughter goes to. Come out, we make quite a hefty offer.

And I look at the female estate agent. I'm like, listen, there's like five cars waiting. People are coming to see this house back to back. I said, you make this house look like shit. I was like, it doesn't belong to anyone else. You make this house. And now and now yeah so when are you moving april i think end of april and does it have a swimming pool not yet no but it's six beds and i've got columns on my front door i've always columns on the front door I love a column. Will you have your walk-in? Oh, girl.

She's got six bedrooms. She can have a whole room. We are already talking to furniture people to do the whole thing. Do you like karaoke? If someone takes me, I'll give it a bash. What would be your song? Oh, my God.

Another Sex and the city reference um to be real yes no it's not mcgree cheryl lynn so when carrie's walking down the catwalk in the hills and she drops. Oh my God. Rose kill. Were you obsessed with it at the time? Absolutely obsessed. Even though there wasn't a black woman in, did that matter to you? Didn't give a damn. Right.

And obviously when it initially came out. Okay, I've got so many questions now. Yeah, I was way too young. But then like seasons five and six are coming out when I'm saying 1920. My boyfriend at the time bought me the whole thingy on dvd for christmas we have box sets yeah whole box set and it was pink and black and i got horrendously sick that christmas with the worst flu ever and i just got an imac where you could put the disc in the thing i remember watching the whole thing over the course of a week what is your prized prized possession uh a classic Chanel flat bag that was made the year I was born yeah when did you get that so I bought that for my 30th birthday I bought it second hand and it

so was it your push present as well yeah kind of and like it just so happened it was made the year I was born and like it's got no volume because it's so old and guys don't judge me i've super glued the handle back together no no i know i should no babe you know about that um i know restoring i know i know i'm like i've been like but it's just do you know what it was as well that was that was the bag i had taped to my bedroom wall when i was like 16 17 that was my made it bag and then also it was like the first time i had enough money to buy that and not worry about the gas meter so even though in terms of monetary value and the world's value it's like oh girl that is like that's my thing because that is my my physical

thing that it's like anything is possible jesus it's hard work and there are gonna there's gonna be so much shit thrown at you but acquiring that in the physical it's like so you went from sleeping on the floor of a flat in summer late in a state to getting the thing on the wall. Like, never forget you can get the thing on the wall. What's next for you? Yeah, you've written the novel. Yeah, yeah. Fiction. But I feel like you've got other things

you've got your eye on, because this is, what are you manifesting at the moment? Or are you allowed to talk about that? I'm manifesting, like, Twilight. I can't lie to you. I'm like, so this YA... Franchise.

Trilogy franchise. Oh, she's manifesting a trilogy. Yeah. Not becoming a vampire. Oh, God, no. Okay, fine. So, yeah, I... This one book deal with this YA book,

how I've ended the story is not what the contract said. And I was like, listen, darling, I've got some big dreams for these characters, so take my ed did, and they have, and I just want to be able to grow with them, and grow with the readers, and I hate when people BS, some authors would sit here and be like, oh, you know, I just do it for the love, no, everyone wants to write that kind of book where you may never have to write again, that's the dream that's like so if this why a love story was it that would be great i'm also learning to write for tv which is um

oh really my god how's that is it with other people in the room oh god god and these rooms were created in covid time so most of them i haven't even met in real life. And we're trying to exchange these ideas. Do you know who I really want to be like? Shonda Rhimes. I kind of feel like maybe you're on your way, babe. Are we going to have a bit of dessert? You big pudding person? Not bothered?

You've got to have that prawn down. Yeah, I will. Always pudding. Really? So what was your low-key 28-person what was on the list? What was it? Your low-key 28-person wedding where you look fabulous. What was the food? The food was... Okay, this is...

Guys are going to be like, you're joking. I didn't even know the menu until I arrived. Because I... I don't imagine this of you because you are so in control of your destiny and everything, it feels like. I think to have the energy to be in control of my destiny, there's so much I just have to be like, oh, I trust you, you get on with it. The only thing I desperately wanted was,

I always say the name wrong, Laduree macaron favours. Oh, I love those. That's very fragile. So we had little box of four of those with our initials on every table. And that was because when we had absolutely no money the one treat he'd get me

every payday was a box of those so I just wanted those I got salted caramel vanilla, lemon and I think chocolate is that the ones that some went off to get by the Royal Academy have you ever had Les Merveilleurs?

Oh my God, they are. Oh my God. She got them for me for my second baby. On Northcote Road. Oh, wow. They're kind of a crusty and a macron and a meringue. You would love them both. Yeah. They are amazing. And they melt. They're like clouds in your mouth, aren't they? Oh, heavenly. My favourite. Right, this is

an unusual dessert. I feel like Carrie would approve. Yeah, I think she would because it's quite exciting. So what you do is you take that out, you put some creme fraiche and then raspberries on the top and it tastes gorgeous. Oh, yours is broken. No, shut up. You're our guest. Be our guest. Oh my God.

Their olive oil biscuits are delicious. Yeah, what are these? These are called Fabrica de Tortas. Fabrica de Tortas. Fabrica. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don what are these? These are called Fabrica de Tortas. Fabrica de Tortas. Andres Gavino Sevilla.

Where did you get them from, Mum? Actually, oh, they're actually from Ocado. Fabulous. I love that. I'm going to show you what you do. So you put a little bit. Mum, she's TikToking. Oh, you're TikToking.

Oh my god. I'm on TikTok. Mae'n dda. Mae'n dda. Mae'n dda. Mae'n dda. Mae'n dda. Mae'n dda. Mae'n dda. Mae'n dda. Mae'n dda. Mae'n dda. Mae'n dda. Mae'n dda. Mae'n dda.

Mae'n dda. Mae'n dda. Mae'n dda. Mae'n dda. Mae'n dda. Mae'n dda. Mae'n dda. Mae'n dda.

Mae'n dda. Mae'n dda. Mae'n dda. Mae'n dda. Mae'n dda. Mae'n dda. Mae'n cool. Right, and that's it. Do you like this? I do. It's fun, isn't it? It's fun. It's fun. Right, do you think you've got good table manners?

Yeah. Yeah. Grandad, isn't it? Oh, really? Was he quite strict? Very. What were the kind of rules? My grandad, the first thing my grandad taught me,

he was like, if you ever go to a place where there's more than one cutlery, you start on the outside and you work your way in. That was his first thing. He taught me the difference between a water glass and a wine glass. He was like, you never put your elbows on the table. You never speak with your mouth full. You don't necessarily reach over, you reach round. If you need to cough or sneeze, you step away from the table.

Like, yeah, he was about it. But I mean, you know, you've been a fabulous guest thanks i mean i just feel like we could be talking yeah forever i would like to go back to that What a funny woman. I just am so impressed by her. I like the way she said people don't talk about money. It's true. I think I come from a family that does talk about money, but I think lots of people don't.

And I think it's interesting that if you don't talk about money, you don't face money problems or how to use money. And she clearly has managed her money very, very well. I just want to say thanks for PayPal for setting us up. I really enjoyed meeting Candice. And hearing about her story and her entrepreneurial ways and her manifestations

and her saying, yeah, my woo-woo, but actually, you know, her making stuff happen. I've never met anyone who knew as much about Sex and the City as me. Or fashion, I feel like. Fashion and Sex and the City. I mean, you gave her a good run for her money.

Because I know all the words to all the episodes, darling. I absolutely loved her. You can follow her on social media, on Instagram, TikTok. You may see Mum's Pudong TikTok. And where you can also see more of her work that she's done with paper. Thank you, Jill and Johnny, for inspiring the pudding. Very easy. Easy.

And was it nice? Did you enjoy it, darling? I did enjoy it. It the pudding. Very easy. Easy. And was it nice? Did you enjoy it, darling? I did enjoy it. It was easy. I wonder. Oh, my God. Jessie always does this. She does nothing and then always has a little criticism.

I wonder. No, it's not a wonder, darling. Just say it's fabulous. Oh, my God. It is fabulous. However. What? When you were talking about those light clouds on Norfolk Road,

what's that place called? Le Merveilleuse. Yeah, that's so banging. Can you get them anywhere else in London? That's a real bloody shame. But I was just thinking you could have done that. Instead of creme fraiche, I like creme fraiche, don't get me wrong. Johnny does it with cream.

Cream. Johnny does it with cream. A little vanilla me wrong. Johnny does it with cream. Johnny does it with cream. A little vanilla in there. Johnny does it with cream. Actually, I've had it, and I think I've had a different one that was slightly sweeter. The ones I brought to you and Sam, were they the same sweetness or slightly sweeter? I think maybe slightly sweeter. Yeah, but I've got some almond ones that I think are a bit sweeter.

But I didn't mind because if pastry isn't always sweet is it with more ways to shop pay donate and send money there are more ways to paypal sending and receiving money requires a paypal account and you must be 18 or over which lenny certainly is cheeky rat but you know what? Actually, when I donate to charities, I get really fed up if you can't use PayPal because it's so annoying.

You have to get your card out. It's much easier with PayPal. Thank you so much for listening and we'll see you soon for another episode. Thank you.