Table Manners with Jessie and Lennie Ware - Chaka Khan

Episode Date: March 25, 2026

We’re still pinching ourselves that we had the absolutely legendary Chaka Khan join us this week! Chaka arrived fresh in from visiting a local school, and she brought her gorgeous sister Tammy & daughter Dana along with her too. Over mum’s delicious afternoon tea we talked all about the phenomenal career Chaka has had, including her upcoming album and brand new musical ‘I’m Every Woman’ launching in the UK. We heard about her skincare routine (our fave topic!), living in Georgia with her family, her dislike of touring, how she became Sia’s godmother, the food served at Nelson Mandela’s birthday party, her love of the TV show 'The Chase’, plus she shares all the stories of hanging out with (wait for it) - Prince, Stevie Wonder, Whitney Houston, Tina Turner & Michael Jackson - no biggy! We barely scratched the surface with this legend, this episode absolutely needs a part 2!Listen & watch Table Manners here - https://tablemanners.komi.io/Follow Table Manners on: Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/tablemannerspodcast/TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@tablemannerspodcastFacebook - https://www.facebook.com/tablemannerspodcastYouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@TableMannersPodcast Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Jessie's new album, Superbloom, is available to pre-order now. There's a 10% discount if you go to her store, jessieware.com, and put in Tablemanners. James Norton's not included. Teas and C's applies. Welcome to Table Manners, I'm Jesse Ware and I'm here with... Why are you looking so sharp? Nothing, I'm looking at you. You look shocked, like you've never seen me before, or I'm a ghost.

Yeah. Are you okay, Lenny? Are you guys? Yeah? No, bye. you've been this week, Lenny? I went to my old university. Oh yeah? And I spoke to students about podcasting and they were very, very interesting. Prof-Len. Prof-Len, not really proff. Doc? Did you get an honorary doctorate? That would be nice. That would have been like a really...

I'm going to mention that. She just written and said thank you and I said, yeah, where's my honorary doctor? Dot. So we can have two doctors in the family. Yeah. It was very interesting. They asked very interesting questions. They asked something, which I hadn't really struck me with our podcast, are we concerned about AI? I said, well, I want like a fake image of myself, something like a deep fake. A deep fake of me. And they put me on the head of something or I don't know, but I'd never thought about AI in our podcast. Had you? No. Neither did I. Are you worried now? I am slightly, because they can clone your voice, Jess. Oh God, they've got years to go. by it. Oh God. Yeah. Well, I've never thought about that, but thank you for stressing us out.

Did you see my tree? The tree in the back. Has it been moved? Your magnolia is looking is divine. It's the best. Divine. It is the best magnolia ever. You know my main memory of that and I think I thought I was in like Dawson's Creek or a teen coming of age. Yeah. I used to sing the bangles up there. You sat in the little fork. Close your eyes. Give me your hair. Really thought I was Joey. But did you know, you can eat Magnolia Tree Butts? Yes, you saw that from Valentine Warner. Auntie Liz sent it to me.

You eat them and they taste gingery. Should I try something? Do you think I should put one on the plates today to make it look nice? I think we're all right. It's probably got like a fox piss on it and stuff. Well, if they'd be careful if they could piss up there. I'm super sonic piss. Anyway, this is awful language when we have a queen.

Oh my goodness. Sh, shh, shh, no, stop, don't. This is massive. And I have to say, and I'm going to put it out there now, I'm probably going to fawn over her a little bit. You have to just forgive me. She is like one of my ultimates. So just like, it may not be my greatest interview.

So sue me. I'm in the presence of greatness. Of royalty. And I just need to take that in. So I'm sorry if I trip over my words. I don't ask the right questions. this is huge. It is big.

I'm every woman must be on everybody's top ten records. Yeah, I was with my producer, Comerkeg yesterday, and he was like, when he was a young boy, that was his top, top song, it still is. Yeah, it can't not be, especially on, we've just had International Women's Day on Sunday. Yeah, yeah. But she gets a load of spins on that day.

I bet she does. I don't think she wrote it, though. She did. I think Ashford and Simpson wrote it. I love it. But still, Ashford and Simpson Overdrive. That's what they were called. What?

Ashford and Sinsen Overdrive. That was the name of their group. Oh, okay. Well, anyway, we have Shaka Khan coming on. You know, she doesn't like to be called the Queen of Funk. She's the Queen of Everything. She's done incredible collaborations. She is one of the greatest voices ever. Every great singer loved and respected her. She sung at Aretha Franklin's funeral, had like a standing ovation for that.

That was, it was like a nine minute performance, which was just stunning. What did she sing? What's it, go, go on yonder or something like that. It was really beautiful. Prince loved her. Stevie Wonder loves her. She's just been on tour with Gladys Knight, Patti LaBelle and Stephanie Mills. Why didn't we go?

They're all my favourites. She's just unbelievable. But I remember her in Rufus when she first started out. Tell me something good. Anyway, she's, well. taking outside on the car. She'll sing. Can we encourage it a little?

Maybe. Yeah. Shaka Khan coming up on tablemen. Shaka Khan, you're here looking gorgeous. Absolutely outstanding. I mean, you are a fine wine. Yeah.

Well, I'm 73 this month. No, it's stop. You're showing off now. I'm 703. I'm not showing off. This is, you look. I've never been cut, never been snitched or snatched. I don't.

believe in it. No, I haven't yet. And you look amazing. I'm 74. You're beautiful. Thank you very much. I don't feel you do. I feel the lines. Girl, you know, it's the last six months you wait. Well, no, no, no, no. I'm already there. What I do? You got to do. You got to grease that face. Got to get all that face up before you go to bed. What do you do? Which one do you use? There's some good oils. You can use anything from baby oil. Yeah. To your favorite lotion that is like got some like some like some, some. Go to it. Just pop that shit on and go to sleep. I put a mask on last night.

Oh, did you? Yeah, I needed something. Those things help, especially in wintertime, especially in winter. Yeah, it's so dry. Do you do any, like, massage on the other hands? Oh, hell no. Oh. I don't have time for that.

I don't have time for any of that. I got kids. Well, the kids are grown, but I got the grandkids. The great grandkids. And the great grandkids. I'm very close to them. And we just do what we do. But you've got great bones.

But also you smile. all the time. Yeah. So that makes you look beautiful anyway. I do grin a lot. Yeah. Life is funny. But you know, you've almost lived five people's lives because your life has been so rich and so full.

Absolutely. Everything. Yeah. It's just you've done so much because I remember Rufus. And I was a teenager. It was just so sensational because it was just. We were both teenagers. Yeah.

I was starting my career. The Memphis was just fabulous. I know. Yeah. As I know. I left home at 16. I ran away. Well, yeah.

Because I knew that what my parents were looking for to happen for me, you know, to go to college. I said, this is so not me. I was an average reader. My father and I, he was sort of a beatnik back then, you know, smoked weed. And, you know, back then played cungas. But he was, he was a genius. He was a great guy. my best ever friend.

I was so blessed to have a father like that, who was, you know, right on my, right there where I was. We were together, and he was a photographer as well. So he had me in front of the camera, make love to the limbs. He was a funny and a wonderful guy. I was so lucky to have my grandmother and my father in my life because my father asked me, he said,

well, Yvette, do you think, that's my given name. Yvette, do you think you want to go to college? That's it? No. He said, good. He said, because anything that you want, you can read up on it and you can do it. But how old were you when you knew you had a voice? Well, you know, we were singing. As long as I can remember, my mother and father were both really good singers. And when we used to clean up on weekends or whatever, do spring cleaning or whatever, they turned on all the Ella, Sarah, Billy.

and Max Roach, everybody. My father, were about the male jazz people, and it was about all the women singers. And from Yima Sumac to, Regina Franklin, we heard everything. So I grew up listening to that stuff.

And it was just a natural thing. It was just a natural thing for me. It was just like, you know, I thought everybody did that. I thought all kids cleaned up. But no one has Chaka Khan's voice. No, no.

I want to go back to painting. this picture of who was around the dinner table and what you were eating. But before I asked that, you being a grandma, your mother, grandma, great-grandma, are you playing those greats to your kids? Or are they demanding K-pop demon hunters like mine are? Which is also great, great vocals. Yeah. But like, are you able to kind of pass on the education to them? Some songs, but not, they're not into it. And I don't play a lot of music. Okay. You know, that's work for me kind of.

I hear you. I love it. Yeah. But, you know, when I'm not singing, I'm not singing, I'm doing other things. I got lots to do. I know. And we can get onto this because I want to know all. I really wanted you to have your singing bowls with you.

Because I love watching you on Instagram and seeing you holding these meditations. Yes. You are like mother nature in like persona. You are everything. Not only are you the greatest singer, you can like. Kind of like everybody's grandma as well. You know, people tell me all the time, they say, I grew up listening to you.

You know, my grandma used to play your songs. My mother used to play your songs. So I'm like a household name in a way. And that's a beautiful thing. It's gorgeous. That's a wonderful thing. I mean, I couldn't see some other artists, you know, whose butts her out and everything and tits her out and everything.

And they're doing rolling on stage and cuckoo. I just don't understand that. You keep it classy, shrieff. I kept it, yeah, I tried to keep it. Well, I was, I'm a recovering Catholic, so that helped. Well, let's talk, but let's talk about that. Did you, I mean, you said that you were inspired by all these jazz greats and hearing it on your spring cleaning on the weekends and stuff.

But were you singing in church as well? Yeah, I did. Well, we had a choir. Okay. But we were singing like, I will not leave you. I will not give you comfort. There was like nothing funky. Nothing soulful or funky about that, yeah.

Catholic Church. Okay, yeah. So, well, can you paint the picture of who was around the dinner table and what was a very famous memorable dish from your childhood? Well, we pretty much ate the same boring stuff. Stuff that we liked, though, as kids, spaghetti. Yeah. My father made a mean, his brother and his family from New Orleans.

So they made a mean, all the New Orleans dishes, all the, you know, gumbo. Yeah, all the good stuff. So my dad would do those, make those big pots of good stuff occasionally. But we had, as a Catholic family, of course, we had fish on Friday. Okay. We didn't have meat on Friday. So, but we had so much chicken coming up that today, I can't handle chicken. Really?

I'm going to turn into a chicken if I eat any more chicken. I'm done. So we had lots of chicken. Who was cooking? Was it your grandma or your mom? My father? They both good cooks. And my grandma sometimes she cooked, you know.

She made the dishes like cabbage and cornbread on the side. Cabbage? Cabbage. How would she do her cabbage? Well, you cut up the cabbage. You put some onions and garlic and you boil it. Oh, yeah. And it's put some potatoes in there.

Oh, nice. It's delicious. And cornbread on the side. That's one of my favorite dishes to taste. Do you have siblings? Yes, I have. two sisters, and one brother. And did they appreciate the food, too?

Yeah, especially my sister. Taka. Well, her given name is Yvonne. Yeah. So we're Yvette and Yvonne. Okay. What's the age difference? We named after the French archers.

Oh, okay. There was a story about these sister, twin sister French art. We're a year and six months apart. Okay. God, you're close. Yes, yes. So we were like, right there. A vet and Yvonne mom were talking about her sister.

Yeah, I mean, I was named Yvette Marie and she was named Yvonne Maud, after my grandmother, Maud. My favorite grandmother. And I'm after my father's mother, other grandmother. We like the French influence Yvonne and Yvette. Yeah. Yeah. Well, well, they're Creole on my father's side. Yeah.

So we have that influence. So great cooking. Great cooking. Yeah. Great seasoning of food. You know, you could have the everyday stuff, but they would really. some hot sauce to it. Can you cook?

Yeah, I can go. What's like, well, your daughter's in the other room, and I wonder if she wants to come on the mic and tell everyone what, what her mom's best dish is. What am I, did, you ought to tell her what my best dishes to are, Dana? Sure. She loved it. Gemini loves to talk.

Come on, baby, bring it to it. Tell them what do it. Dana, what, Dana, come and join us at the table, babe. This is our Dana. Hi, Dana. Great singer. and songwriter as well. Really?

She writes the deepest lyrics you would ever. I can't believe it. Where it came from at this youth in her age? But she writes the most in-depth beautiful. And I'm going to have her sing you. You're going to send her some of your lyrics. Yeah. I would love to.

She sings her ass off. I will send you some of my songs. She can sing. God, you speak to each other so lovely. I need to be more polite to my mother. You have such respect for your job? So much admiration and just respect and the humbleness and, you know. So come on, what's your mom's best dish?

She makes amazing, these amazing garlic noodles that are so phenomenal. Sorry, by the way, Shaka just looked into the camera and seduce the camera when we own garlic noodles. Yeah, she's like, that's my. Okay, tell me. She makes phenomenal. Well, her garlic noodles is just, she does the egg noodles and she puts the garlic sauce in it. It's just the way she flavors it is amazing. You need help?

I'm fine, darling. So we've got the garlic and noodles. Phenomenal. She makes, I mean, she makes some garlic. I make a mean grilled cheese. What's the secret to the grilled cheese? What cheese? Which cheese?

She makes a beautiful girl cheese. Which cheese? Well, I like cheddar. Yeah. Very sharp cheddar cheese. Yeah. And the butter. And the buta.

A lot of butter. Will you offer some. Yes. Look at this lovely table. There's some volvon. There's mushroom and cheese. and prawn volleyball. Oh, lovely.

Thank you. And then there's some sandwiches. Beautiful. Beautiful. It's a funny time to eat and you've been working all day and it's just kind of so picky bits. Yes. You know, for the queen, do you know what I mean?

She loves clad of cream every time we come out here. Oh, great. Perfect then. I'm going to have a scone, honey. She's so happy about the stroke. She's on somebody. I'm eating. I'm having everything.

I'm thrilled. This is heaven. So Shackman and I met about a year or so. When did you, when did you do? Royal Festival Hall curation. Was it two years ago? I think it was two years ago. And we get this email

through my daughter's school being like, and my daughter was part of the choir saying we've got the most amazing opportunity for the choir to go and sing with Shaka Khan at South Bank Center and I was like, I will volunteer for being a chaperone

that day. Thank you so much. I begged to that singing music teacher. I was like, you have to let me be on this trip. And so I've never been so willing to be on a school trip. I tell you that. It was such an amazing experience. You were singing with, I think it was like six in a city.

Yeah, the choir. Yeah, the choir was lovely. And the kids, too. The kids sung and they prepared, tell me something good. And it ain't nobody. Right, they were background singing. They were background singing. You got them working.

Those kids were singing, tell me something good, on repeat for 20 minutes. And all the kids were kind of in this, like, trance with you, because they were just going, tell me something good. And they were just going around. They were loving it. And then you were there and you were ripping with them. It was magic. It was magic.

It was magic. Well, haven't you just been at a school now? Just came to school. So what were you doing in that? Well, the same kids that came. Some of them were there. Okay, right. But I made a whole new cropper kids.

We sang together. Yeah. I sang for them. They're saying for me. We did some artwork. Is this part of your Shaka Khan Foundation kind of work that you do? I go to schools all over the place. In any city, I possibly can.

I go and we do all sorts of wonderful things to the children. We talk about anything and everything. Often I have them just to myself. I say no teachers, no parents, please, just the kids. And we just have wonderful, wonderful conversations. When did this start? I've been doing this for like at least five. 10 years maybe I've been doing this with children going to schools.

I love children. I think I probably would have been as being a teacher if I hadn't, you know, the singing bug hadn't got me. Yeah, well, it did. He's gone to lovely. Thank you so much. Oh, I don't make those. Well, no, pleasure.

Really good. So we've heard about you cooking. You can cook. Your daughter attests that it's you are a great cook. And you're obviously a great mom and a grandma because she's been touring with you for 10 years and loves you and adores you. Do you like eating out or do you... Not really.

No, okay. Is it, why is that? When I do eat, yeah? It's not often. I want to be comfortable. I want to take off my shoes. Take off my clothes. Put on a gown.

I'm good right now, though. I'm good, but this is not a meat. This is like a little snack. It's lovely. I think I can keep my shoes on for this one. I'll try. But by the time hit those sandwiches might be something else. Okay. But I don't, you know, I don't often get to like this lay back with my gown on, you know, look ugly and eat whatever I want.

But where do you actually call home? Now I'm in Georgia. And how many months a year would you? Well, I've been there about four years. I bought like 80 acres of land. I've got my own lake. Wow. And I fenced it all around.

It's with the part that we're living in right now. There are many acres I have never seen yet. Most of it I've not seen. I'm not being personal, but do you live on your own? I live with my two sisters. Yeah. My sister has a house up the way. Yeah.

She's not bought to him. And the sister that's close to me, Taka, Yvonne. She lives in my house and my brother live in my house. My mother has a room, the best room in the house, by the way. She comes to visit and she gets ready. She just left about maybe a month ago, and she was with us for maybe like six months. But it's great.

I mean, and what I got it is I got a safe haven for the family. If things go crazy, this world is going left in many ways. So I want to have a safe place for everybody to come to. And it's going to come to, I'm sure, it's going to come to something. America is so known for having cuckoo presidents. When did you get your star on the Walk of Fame? That was along quite a while. Yeah, long long time ago.

Oh, God, maybe 20 years ago. And was Stevie Wonder with you? Yes, he came. He is a good friend. He shows up. Yes, he? He always shows up for good things. He's got a great English accent.

He does very good accent. Right, he does. Because he's in Cochney, right? Yeah. He's like that when he's one of those people that when you see him live, he's still just the same as he was. He's the same guy. He's got the same voice.

He's incredible. He is incredible. He came, and we're doing this, we've been doing this tour, sort of mini tour for the last couple of years. With Patty LaBelle, Gladys tonight and Stephanie Mills. Yes. What a line-up. Yes, right. Have you enjoyed it?

Yeah. Do you mean? Yeah, okay. But the touring. I don't tour anymore. That's for kids. Too exhausting. I find it hard, and I'm not kids.

It's cuckoo. It's hard. It's hard. It's hard on every part of you. It's hard. It's the best bit about the performance, right? You want to perform, you want to connect. You want to connect.

You want to connect. You want to, yeah. So our problem has been, how can we travel kindly in a way that won't wear us, a terrace up? And then that's almost impossible. Yeah. It's just impossible. You can't do one city on Saturday.

And then they want you to another city on Sunday. Yeah. For one thing, two shows back to back for me. It's a lot. If it's in the same place, that's one thing. I can handle that. But there's traveling in between, it gets to you. But like, and you give, the vocal you give.

I give 100%. 110. You don't hold back on the vocal. No. And I don't have little things that I do in between. I don't do dancing. I don't do none of that stuff. I sang, period.

You know what? It is inspiring. And I heard your Breakfast Club interview that you did. with the gals. And you were all kind of commenting. And I don't, you were saying, you know, when we go on stage, we just sing. We don't need to do the bells and whistles. We don't need to show our bodies.

I don't believe in that. And I do think that's really inspiring. I think as somebody. She's sexy without showing her body on. But even as somebody who is, she is. Thank you, Mum. I know, but I think as somebody who is in pop music and a different generation, and you're not pop, but you kind of cross over into all the different.

different genres. Yeah. You're a soul, funk, pop, jazz stuff. You're everything, right? But do you think that the demands have changed on female performers now, or do you think it's always been there? You just haven't played the game in the way you do. The game has changed.

Yeah. Because all bets are off. These women are doing any and every damn thing on stage and trying to sing too. the ones who are doing the most physicalities with their butts and stuff, you know, and their body parts are the ones that usually are compensating for what they don't have. Move your bottom if you don't. You know what I'm saying? Absolutely.

So I came to sing and I came to really do a good job and that's hard work. It's stuff. But I don't feel like it's hard work once I'm doing it. I feel great. Do you still do Pratt like Jesse does To when you're No Tune up your voice before you go on

No I don't need to do it When I saw her When I met her And I went over to Shaka When we were playing the same gig And I go over with my singing teacher The least cool person I am Like I'm like

Hi this is my singing teacher Annabelle And we love you And you've got a fag on You're having a fath Like that Just before the showtime I'm like you are An icon

And there's me like steaming and, you know, not speaking. You rock and roll. Well, you know what? It's not rocket science for me. I've never had, like, a singing teacher. God, you know, was on the road with me. And we do warm up, though.

That's a warm-up to do. Oh, yeah, you see. That one is a good one. Yeah. You know. Have you got one of these things? I know what you're going to say. I say, no.

Have you got one of them? You put it in water. It's really good. I'm going to change this water. Oh, we do Do you have any backing singers? Oh, yeah. I have the best, strongest, most amazing backing singers ever.

And they've been with me for over 10 years. I mean, that's the youngest time. When I was watching you perform and I was side stage and I was having the best time of my life, I was with your manager. Your lovely manager, what's his name? Cedric. Cedric.

And I said, God, these players are unbelievable. And he said, Prince used to always fire people. And Shaka would always inherit the people that he fired. Because he was always... You do like, they're playing on the stage and print's the same. While they're playing on stage. Oh, rude. You were snap, point to the snap.

Point, kick the prince would fire people on stage, yeah. You've got new music out. Yes, I have. But whenever you are performing, everybody wants you to sing. They want you the old stuff. The whole stuff. The new album is really good, by the way. The new album is popular.

The album is Shatzilla. Thank you. Have you heard some of it? Yeah. We heard of it. Oh, good. You like it. You like it.

It feels really true to you. And that's what I really like. It is because of the amazing writer. Who. That we collaborated with. She's now my God daughter. Yeah. She's now my God daughter.

Yeah, we need to get to the bottom of this. How is she your God daughter? She's my God. She asked me. How did you get. She asked her. She asked me. Would you please be my godmother?

I said, of course. Okay, will you please be my godmother? Of course. Okay, great. Thank you. Thank you. How does that work? You know, it's the heart.

Great. And our hearts meet, you know, I see, when you come from, I see we are like family already. That's right. There's a family vibe going on here. And of course, I'd be happily be your grandma, your god brother. That's amazing, Shaka. Thank you. I just want you to take me out once a year.

We go and have scons. And I just hear you sing. We just come here and have to have some. I'll be happy. Does it drive you mad to have to sing the old stuff too? Yes. I have to be honest. I will say it to you.

I don't want anyone else looking at this to feel any kind of weight. Or don't feel like I'm mean or whatever. What it is is, I'm human. Yeah. And if you had to sing Mary had a little lamp, every day. It would get to you. Yeah.

It would get to you. No. Maria had a little lamb is slightly more monotonous than I'm every woman. I'm every woman here. It's not that way. They're monotonous.

They're equally monotonous. We were trying to work out on International Women's Day how many times that was sung. I'm sure. Everyone like a costume. It's trying to go, I'm every woman.

It's all in me. Everybody knows it. Little kids. People. Everybody knows it. Yeah, everybody knows it. That's a blessing. Of course.

The blessing is not lost on me. It is not. I do get it. And I do, I am honored and so thankful that I'm loved in the way that I am. But it's a feminine power song as well. Yes, it is. I mean, it's a powerful song for women. Most songs I sing, you know, even though they may say I'm a woman, but the lyrics, I'm very, I'm about that.

I'm about if I'm going to sing something to people who say something, it has to be of something of substance. I really feel that way. The lyrics are very important to me. But I have to give you props because you're 73. You're still working with people,

you know, you're working with Sear and Greg Kirsten on this record, right? These are brilliant, brilliant musicians, producers, writers. On the last one, you were working with Switch for like Sugar, right? Like, Switch is one of the best. producers, like, from Major Laser,

if people don't know, he's brilliant. And you're making a song like Light Sugar that it feels so fresh. But I love that you, you're not complacent. You keep on pushing, whether that's opening up the Shaka Foundation, Shaka Khan Foundation, and then, I don't know. I feel like you...

And don't discriminate. You don't. You don't dress, either. My mother used to get in my ass about that when I was young coming up. She'd say, I mean, I bring friends over and, you know, some people will meet her. And they may look like bombs or whatever. whatever, something that she didn't like about them.

But I saw some beauty, I saw something in the she would never see. And I still get that a little bit. You know, I see things in people that other people don't see. And so I got a lot of that then. So I'm used to that crap. A lot of beauty is missed because people are looking at the outside and feeling haughty or feeling like they are better than or that they, you know, people judge, the judgmental part.

I don't like it. I, you, like, Sia and me, want to be, you're a good mother. And we had a ceremony and everything. Oh, yeah, tell us about the ceremony. We're the lovely party, a lovely party ceremony where everyone wore green. Green. Why green? We're red.

I wore green. Oh, I'm knowing there to wear green. Why did you have to wear green? Because I was a godmother. What is, why I was green? Well, because I'm the godmother. Okay. Oh, okay, mother.

The same is right. We distinguish me. Stop. Like we can get. It did look a bit. You're old for that. Somebody looking in and not know what was going on. From Mars, what was going on here?

Yeah. What the hell's really up. And what did see her and the rest of the guests were? They were red. This feels quite Christmassy. Was it around Christmas song? Yeah, lovely. You know, every weekend, every Sunday, she has these wonderful big parties for kids.

I've heard about these. She's supposed to be the most part of her. Does she have her own child? Yes. Yes, she's one son. She's got, but she's got this trampoline that is on the ground. You could walk right onto it. And I know it's that.

Oh, it's stuck up into me. And when you look down, if you look close to them and look down, it's a hole with a lot of lovely pebbles under it. It's sweet, really, really smart. Did you get on the trampoline? Of course. I love it. You are, you are so kind of maternal and generous,

and you can see that. And that's kind of why people are so, I think somebody like Sierra wants to have you in her orbit all the time. and you've talked about how close you are. Was there anybody that was like that for you, that was kind of your mentor? My grandmother was kind of like that. My grandmother, more.

Everywhere I went, she was doing what Dana is doing right now. With me in a way, everywhere I went, and I took the kid. This way, I could take the kids with me. Okay. She was there. So we went, we spent a lot of time in Switzerland. I did a lot of recording there.

Did you know Tina Turner? I met her a few times. Yeah, because she was in Switzerland. I knew I knew I more. I knew I knew. Was he a bad guy or a good guy? He was a lovely human being. Yeah.

Just he was, he was a victim, you know, of himself and of the, of what we do for a living and of drugs and stuff like that. It was just, and me too. I was, we were having fun together. And, you know, but it was, it was not, you know, a good time in either of our lives. We're going through some shit, you know. But, you know, shit happens. It's life. I mean, I'm like every human being.

I've been there, done that. I've overcome. And I'm still here to talk about it. Thank God. Are you still friends with the Rufus people? Absolutely. And Ashford and Simpson. Absolutely.

They were called Ashford and Simpson overdrive, weren't they? I think they did. Yeah, that's what they did call themselves overdrive. Overdrive. Yes. I remember that. When her husband was still. Very.

Cool. Yeah, they were a lovely couple. Yeah. They wrote really fine songs. Yeah. Yeah. Can I talk, because you lived with Rufus, didn't you? Well, Rufus is a band. Yeah, but you lived with Rufus the band. We all did. Yeah. We all started. Who did the cooking? Yeah. And weren't you all hippies? I don't know. We were hippies, so nobody cooked. No, we didn't eat. Had baked jeans.

Were you just getting smoking? Yeah, but that was a while back. That was for a short time as well. Okay. We were just waiting for the record label to come through. Yeah. And it had happened and we were going, psh. Now, on to, we have to, basically, we've had many people, Grace, this podcast that have a Prince story. And I know you and Prince were very, very close.

And I'm so in all. You're one of the only people, I think, that Prince has ever allowed to cover. I think you're the only person, know, that you've covered. They've covered. Because I, you know. No. No. I remember so.

Huh? Oh, yeah, nothing compares. You go, ma'am. You go, girl. But, like, he's. But, like, Prince was like, I mean, Prince was obsessed with you because, like, didn't he, because of her voice. We had a special love. We had a special love from the heart.

You were very close. From the heart. We had a special love and appreciation for a job. Did you go out with him? No. Nothing romantic. Not your time. He was short, yeah.

But you're a little Cuban here. Lovely man. But you're not exactly tall, Shaka. No, I'm not. I'm bad. Is it funny? Is it funny? How short women love tall men.

Oh, you like tall men? I like a dog. I want to climb them. I climb a tree. Yes. I understand. Yeah, your interest was too small. I love it.

Prince, the genius, you know, prolific. Was he good fun or was he a bit tricky? He was. He was a deep thinker. Okay. And many people saw that. Clever? Very clever.

Of course. Yeah. Brilliant. Brilliant. Brilliant is what he was. And a lot of people misread that for being snooty or snorty or whatever. But he was really a gentleman, a true gentleman, a fine guy.

He took care of me in many ways. He was really there for me. He was there for me like a friend and a big brother or daddy sometimes. He was a good man. He was a beautiful, beautiful human being. I saw him as him as him, Whitney Houston, Who was the comedian of life, death, and the year after. That girl, she kept me.

She sang your song in Buddytard. Yes, she covered. I'm in the woman. Yeah. Yes. She came to the studio. Her mother was a background singer for me in studio. Studio work, Cissy Houston.

And we went. Yes, great, great singer. She told me one day we were in the studio. She'd been singing with me for years. And one day she said to me, You know, I got a daughter that can sing. I said, oh, I said, bring her down. She was only like maybe 13.

And she brought her down. What did she sing to? I heard her sing, a little background. I think it was on. Love is falling on me or something like that. It was one of my CDs I did with Adderfmard. And she came down and she held her on. She was brilliant.

And, you know, I thought to myself, I was thinking, God, she's going to be so great. She's a great, she really had. She was beautiful as well. You used to look at a lovely human being. But did she ever come to you when she was in trouble? Because she'd know you're always around and we were. We hung out and we were in trouble together.

Uh-huh. Let's get straight. There was a time when we were. Okay. But then I did get goodbye together. So she was funny. She was really funny. God, she was a comedian.

Really? She got me stitches. I miss her so much. Oh, I'm so sorry. Do you know her aunt here? Dion. Yeah, no, Dion very well. Who's also hilarious. She's also got a great sense of humor.

Libra. We have fun. Oh, you Libra? No, I'm Aries. She's Libra. I'm Libra. You're Libra. My sister's Libra. Okay, is my sister's Libra.

Okay, thank God. Right. Yeah, my sister is Libra. And my brother is Libra. I have two Libras. Do you do horoscope scopes a lot? Is that kind of part of your life? Well, you know, to me, it just gives me a,

an overall sort of view of what planets are fucking with you. We do ask everybody the last supper. And you're not going to die. You're going to a desert island. Oh, that's up we're here? Oh, okay. Desert Island, you're going to have an appetizer, a main, a drink of choice and a dessert. Where are we going to have?

And I also actually, because you know everybody and you have lived. alive. I need to know who is around that dinner table with you. Dead or alive. Dead or alive. Okay, yeah. I figured that because I don't know me. It's sad to say, but most of my friends are dead.

Okay. Miles Davis. Oh. Who else would I have? What would be, Miles be providing at the dinner table? What would he be doing? I mean, apart from music. Well, let's say, but they leave the accident home. As human beings, as people.

Okay. Witty, funny as hell. Okay. Was he? Oh, my God. Hilarious. You said it like he saw it, and I love people like that. A lot of people can't handle that.

I'm your Huckleberry. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Miles Davis, Prince. Yeah. Whitney. Yeah.

What should I have? Nelson. Nelson. Nelson Mandela. Would he get a seat at the table? He's a lovely man. And I definitely have met the table. Because you went and you were invited to his house.

Absolutely. It's birthday. You were invited to Nelson Mandela's. And do you remember what was the dinner? What were you eating? It was some African food. It was good. Delicious.

Yeah, it was very good. Food's great in South Africa. Yeah. The food is. I went to a restaurant. Produce. Yes. I went to this restaurant where you go to eat stuff that people usually don't eat, you know, like worms and shit like that.

Oh my God. But I went. And we did have. My son was really cool, he was really like, what did he come? I said, why did you come? to this dinner first when you knew what we were going to be doing. Because he was, he was like talking to everybody. He said, you all are eating that crap.

That and I said, yeah. I said, we're going to try it. I'll see what's going on. I'm game. So I had some, they brought a dish that looked like spaghetti. Yeah. And it adds the tobacco sauce and smells good. Yeah, garlic.

Everything was right. It was worms. Oh, my God. The spaghetti wasn't spaghetti. It was worms. It's delicious. I wouldn't try it. I tried it.

It was delicious. We might. You'll have to be eating that. You never know what's going to happen to you. Fair enough. I know. I just wanted to see. Yeah, I didn't eat a whole plate of anything.

I taste the bits of everything, almost. So my son, he ordered spaghetti. Yeah. But he said, I want real spaghetti. Yeah. So what we did was, we switched his plate. That is mean. And he was eating, and I was asking, so how is your spaghetti then?

It's delicious. I think you mean. I got his ass. Does he still speak to you? He was pissed. I don't think he talked to me for a few minutes. I wouldn't talk to you either. No, he would not.

That would be awful. But he was being such a... Would you eat a worm? Well, I'd like to say, if you can't make me, I probably would, you know. I'd give it a go. At this fab dinner party with a great background singing and music and everything, what would you be eating? What's your favourite starter, main course and dessert?

I'm not big on. food up. She's there for the conversation. So you just have little bits. I would, my, yeah, I'm a picker. Yeah, like appetizers. Well, yeah, but I'll eat. What do I like? Anything with garlic? Anything with a lot of garlic. Okay.

I'm pretty much scared for that. Okay. Have you got a sweet tooth? No, not really. Okay. Shacky, you're going to have to give me more than garlic. Do you drink? Spaghetti, so I like spaghetti. Okay, so we go. I love spaghetti dishes. I love Italian food.

Okay. Do you like a drink or do you not drink in it? And occasional wine. Wine. Which one? A good one. A good one. A good one.

So like what's in your fridge? If we were coming round. Okay. What's always in there? Most of what's in my fridge ain't for me. Okay. I got a sister who's a cook. Right.

So she's like always buying this and that and trying to cook up this and that. She's too, it's too picky for me, you know. Just make the damn food and let's eat it. She's like, you got to cut it with this knife. We got to use this, cut it like this and you. So what's in the fridge that I like? I like yogurt. Seweed, love seed.

But that's, okay. So we got yogurt and seaweed on the. Right. Come in then. Oh, cuckoo. I do love Japanese food. No one. You're slim.

Oh, she did. I don't eat. I don't eat. Japanese yeah Oh Oh I know They're so freaking good They're white

Yes And it's so sweet that they're delicious Oh my god I have it in L.A Japanese sweet potato That's right The best thing I've ever eaten

It was gorgeous I have the Japanese potato And I have mashed mac and cheese But my favorite is Caesar I love Caesar Oh girl A good one

Yeah Where's your best Cesar a day. I eat one avocado a day. Okay. It's great for the tummy. Maybe it's good for the skin as well. You're good for everything. Are you having like salt and pepper on that and lemon or you just? I put some lemon on it or I put like a salad dressing sometimes a little bit.

Delicious. Delicious. We've got to talk more about the album. Working with Sia, obviously you speak so highly of her. But I am so intrigued by how were you writing together in the same room or did she do the thing where she, because I've heard about how. She'd bring me the stuff. She'd be done. Right, okay.

And if I wanted to change something, I would change it. Right. And often I did, but often I didn't. Because she is a great writer. I mean, it takes her like two goes. She listens to the backing track and she just goes. But she's also a great voice. I mean, she can reach.

She's beautiful. She's got everything. She's got it. You know, I couldn't believe her. I said, what did you learn to write lyrics for me and make me feel it? She says, well, I've been listening to you since I was born. Oh, okay. It's okay, I rest my case.

She's on the record. You've got a duet. It's the last song. Yes, we're doing some stuff. And we're doing, we're doing backgrounds together. Yeah, I can hear her in the backgrounds as well. Do you feel very supported by it, Cia? It feels like you've had a really good experience on that.

Absolutely. Yeah. I did that album, Ligarie Split. Wow. Where did you record it? In Los Angeles. In Los Angeles. Which studio?

It was studio of the guy, it's like I'm Greg. Greg Kirsten. Yeah, Greg Kirsten, who was amazing. amazing producer. He has a studio there and we were just working in. Where's the famous one that you? There's a few. It's right up the street.

The one that Jimmy Hendricks. Record plants, sunset. Jim Henson. That's where I usually record. Is that where like MJ did all his stuff? Like Michael did all his stuff. He made him a lot of work there. Did he know Michael Jackson as well?

I met him once. Okay. And I couldn't hear him. Oh. We were, he came to me yet. I was saying, how are you doing it? He said something. I said, what did you say I can't hear you?

Because he spoke so softly. Did he not repeat it? No. Oh. I didn't want him to. I was like done. I said, you know what? I don't.

I have a lot of time. You're too quiet. I'm done with you. Wonderful. Great artists. But I ain't got a time for drama. Okay, yeah, fair enough. Okay, yeah.

Fair enough. The extra drama. Who are you listening to at the moment? I don't really. I don't listen to music. I don't listen to music. You don't listen to music. I do sometimes, but I have to be in a space where I can.

I'm so busy doing other stuff. I'm busy trying to catch up all sleep and keeping everything organized and right. In a farm, there's always something to do. Do you watch telly? Yeah. Oh, like, oh, girl. Okay. Well, that's my man.

That's my husband right there. In bed at night. Oh, yeah, all night. Oh, yes. I'm a telly baby. I was raised sort of a telebaby. So what's you watching at the moment? Well, you know what I love here is Chase.

The chase. The ch- well, the quiz show. Oh, the, I love it. I'm out of the big things. I love stuff like they're working like, you know. Isn't that coming? That's amazing. You see, I love tipping point.

Oh, we'll maybe get shatper into that. Are they similar? It's just similar, but you get coins that come down. Oh, I love that too. The thing that comes down to the thing is slide down yet. Yeah, right. It's like being on the pier. Love it.

God, maybe you should live together. I know. I watch it when I do my exercise. I love, I do love that program. So you like quiz shows. Oh, love it. I love to learn. Can we talk about your new musical that's starting very soon in Hackney Empire?

I'm Every Woman. Yes. Starring Alexandra Burt. It's unbelievable. These young people, I was in tears, brought me to tears. Is it hard to watch your life being replayed? No, I'd rather enjoy it. Okay.

I think I would, too. Oh, I was a while rougher, wasn't? I'm reminded, you know, that, yeah, I had a life. I had a big, big life. I still have a big life, and it's okay. But these kids are really beautiful. They're so talented and they're so committed. They love it.

We just had the best time. For two, a couple days I was there. There is so much love for you. You've filled so. I'm so, yeah, I'm blessed. I'm really blessed. But you've given it, like, you've been generous with your, with your talent. Oh, yeah, I love.

I give a lot of love. I get a lot of love back. There's nothing more beautiful than that. Shack Khan, before we let you go, can you give us a nostalgic taste that can transport you back somewhere, happy or sad? A nostalgic? Taste or scent. Oh, dear, what is it? What would it be?

On Sandalwood is very close to my everything. Yeah. I make sprays too. I buy lots of oils. Yeah. And I put them in a spray bottle, warm water, shake them up. I spray them in hotel rooms. I spray them on my bed.

I spray them on the curtains. I spray them on the road. So sandalwood it would be. Sandalwood is one of the base fragrances. And then, what's it, a patchouli. Hippi. You're a hippie. Yes.

You're a hippie. Pachulia is hippie. That's right. All my hippie fragrances come back and I spray them. And everyone loves them. You can do that on the road. Just take you some spray bottles and get you to do your favorite oils. No, I love it.

And wipe it in there and just spray. You are welcome anytime you want to come on and we'll just talk about all the other memories too. Well, the very next time I come, I'd love to come visit. You are. I'd love you to. I love you to come. I would love that. I would be riding that donkey.

Please do. You've got to come. I would love it. I would. Thank you for being here. You are amazing. You are amazing. You've met your match. You met my match. And I met my idol.

They say don't meet your idols, but she was astonishing. That was a stunning hour and 45 minutes of my life. But she probably would have preferred to be at home watching The Chase. I'm obsessed with that takeaway from this. Next time, Shaka, you just come over. We'll have a telly dinner, we'll have some scones. Yeah, picky things. Picky tea.

Yeah. I she was so fantastic warm she loved you I don't know what because she she gets on high-fiving you yeah because I'm reminded of her mother and I'm only a year older than that is her favorite person in the world okay but I'm only a year older than her and she said you look like good for your age I thought well she thinks I'm the same age as I'm stop you and Shaka are both like giving glow glow to the 70 year old skin she had no wrinkles and no bags. I didn't even scratch the surface on asking her

about where all those incredible Rufus outfits are, has she still got them? Like, I didn't even ask her about, like, her jazz standards record. I didn't even ask, like, this being on Broadway, we'll have to do part two. Yeah, we will. Let's go to Georgia.

Yeah. Ride that horse. You're riding now, Jesse? I'm only riding cowboys, mom. Thank you. I love Shaka Khan, and I love. that this podcast exists

that we get Sim Fire Over for a scorn and clotted cream Shaka Khan, you absolute legend you are I know she doesn't like to be called a diva because she thinks it's negative but you are the best kind You are amazing And I can't wait to go to Hapney Empire

To see her show I'm every woman Alexandra Birk's in it You know the vocals are going to be tip top And let's go Yeah I think it's only doing a small run Oh dear And then hopefully it will come back

Maybe it'll go to the West End, Jess. Do you think about the sing-along for that? Yeah. Oh, God. Thank you so much to Shaka Khan for coming on, you know, just helping kids in the morning. Yeah. And coming in. Getting them to sing the chorus of her song.

I'm just, I'm obsessed with her. Chachzilla's going to be out in autumn. She sounds fantastic on it. And if you love Sia, it's like Sia and Shaka combined, they, there's some, like, killer anthemic notes on there. Jessie, if you become her Godchard What colour scheme you go to have? Oh yeah

Is she going to wear green again? Green. I don't know. I think you better have a different colour scheme, darling pink. Pink and colours well. Of course. Thank you for watching and listening and we'll see you next week.