Table Manners with Jessie and Lennie Ware - Cyndi Lauper

Episode Date: February 5, 2025

We get to see a legend’s True Colours on the podcast this week! We joined the powerhouse hitmaker Cyndi Lauper for lunch in central London and mum cooked up some borscht especially for the occasion. It was a total honour to hear Cyndi’s stories; we learnt how she grew up in the same house as her whole extended family, how she would play tricks on her priest, her tips on cooking the perfect Italian pasta sauce, how she got kidney stones from spinach, the incredible LGBTQIA+ advocacy work she does, and she confesses that her upcoming tour really will be her last. We sent Cyndi home with some boxes of mum’s borscht - us girls really did have fun with Cyndi, you really don’t want to miss her upcoming UK tour it sounds incredible! Tickets for the ‘Girls Just Want To Have Fun, Farewell Tour’ are available through Cyndi’s website now. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello and welcome to Table Manners. I'm Jessie Ware and I'm here with Lenny and we've accidentally kind of coordinated again. Darling, do you think you're sending me messages? Maybe mum. So we are actually not in either of our abodes today. We are in our friend's flat in South London. Love your Andy Barker. Thank you Andy Barker. Because we have a very special guest today. We didn't want her to travel south. And we are very excited. We have Cyndi Lauper on the podcast today. I watched her documentary that came out last year, We Let the Canary Sing, and she's trailblazer, icon, fire starter, a civil rights campaigner. She looks fantastic. I'm interested to see what color hair she comes in today.

She was kind of the birth of MTV as well. The music videos and her and Madonna came out at the same time and famously, they were kind of pitted against each other. True Colors was sung at your daughter's car service. Oh yeah. Big queer anthem about her really good friend Gregory who she lived with that I found out in the Let the Canary Sing documentary that you should all go and watch, it's absolutely

brilliant and we've got her on and we're going to talk about life in New York. And still touring. Still touring, yeah, that's right. I mean she's coming on to talk about it's the farewell tour which I don't feel like feels very fair. Why is it a farewell when I feel like she'll never stop working Cindy Norberg. No of course she won't. She's done kind of every different genre of music she goes from blues she'll she'll invent a type of pop sound I mean girls

just want to have fun and that like little hiccup that she does that ah um that's I don't know she's just she's amazing. She's playing at the 02 next week and you won't be able to go because you'll be gone. I know, I'll be in Los Angeles, so annoying. Darling, should we talk about this week a little bit? Yes, okay. It's been a momentous week. Why, what happened? Well, we went to see Bridget Jones.

Oh yeah. The premiere and your song's in it. Yeah. And I was so proud. Thanks mum, you wept in the premiere, I was so proud thanks mom you worked in the premiere it was really embarrassing it was very it was a very best moment of the home we were all thrilled for Bridget was after she shagged Leo would also I think everyone knows that he's on the front of the poster can you not say shag okay it was

after she spent the night okay yeah sure yeah Pearls comes in and it was really fun. And it was just really exciting to be there. So what have you made, mum? Well, it's been Meals on Wheels today. So I've brought the food from home and I made it last night after my new fridge has been installed. That is for another podcast, mum. Well, it will be for another podcast

because my refrigeration problems have been very trying. I have made something that Cindy apparently loves, borscht. Now I'm not an expert borscht maker but it tastes quite nice. I did a combination of a Ukrainian recipe and the hairy bikers so I amalgamated them to my taste really. I don't know if she eats dessert But I've made a fig and almond tart which looks gorgeous It's kind of frangipani, but can I just tell you the scent of the figs when they were cooking was great Yum, and it looks lovely. It looks pro. I've done absolutely nothing and I'm sorry. That's fine Thank you. I appreciate it. That's fine. Cindy Lauper coming up on Table Moment.

Cindy Lauper, you have just walked in, you are a vision. Mum wants to steal the clothes off your back. Everything, from the coat to the blouse. But you know Nicky. I know Nicky, let's talk about Nicky. Everything, from the coat to the blouse. But you know Nikki. I know Nikki. Let's talk about Nikki. Nikki helped me in the summer. Nikki Fontanella, a nice Italian girl.

Nice Italian girl. You love working with nice Italian girls. I'm Italian. I know. You were not as loud as Swiss. And New York Italians. I mean, that's how I, we share a makeup artist sometimes called Jen Lombardo, who is friends with Nikki

and they have all this wonderful New Yorker, Italian connection. Let's talk about that at the dinner table. But I do have a wonderful Colombian girl. Oh yeah? And she's excellent. What does your Colombian girl do? Well, she's American. Okay.

But her descent is Nafra. She's awesome. Oh, Nafra's here. Isn't she awesome? Yeah, yeah, yeah. She's a beautiful woman. Of course, she wouldn't be embarrassed, I'd say. Well, you look gorgeous. She can paint. That one can paint. She's a great and steady and calm like Buddha. You know, always like, I call her my Buddha girl because no matter what, she's always calm. I love that. Are you always calm Cindy? Oh hell no. Can we go back to the beginning Cindy? So this podcast we talk a lot about like food and family and food memories

So I want to I want Cindy Lauper to paint a picture of who was around your dinner table When you were a child and what you were eating. What was a very common Lauper dinner. Well My parents split up when I was young, and my mother, we were raised by a Sicilian family that came over from Palermo, and my grandparents lived upstairs, and my aunt lived next door, which is perfect for them because that's how my grandfather kind of wanted everybody together, which that's nice unless they got other dreams and they're not allowed to have them. So I learned that quick. My mother though, she was fantastic and I was a sous chef because if you were a girl,

what did they tell us? They said, you got to learn they tell us they said well you got to learn how to cook and clean because you're gonna do it for the rest of your life and I thought to myself hell no for you maybe you know but um no but you know my mom she knew about the practicality of it you could take care of yourself and that's all I wanted I want to learn how to take care of myself and I learned all the sous chef stuff. Did you enjoy cooking?

Well, yeah, I enjoyed doing anything they were gonna teach me. I was very curious. It was tough for my mom. She was like a saint. I had this one thing that I think I liked to fly. So, like- You liked to fly?

Yeah, she was telling me that when I was an infant, I was rocking so hard in the carriage, I flung myself through the window, the little French door window, so she had a heart attack. I was okay. Oh my God. You catapulted out of your pram. Yeah. Wow. Of course you did. She's Cindy Lorcan. So I wanted a, she had this, cause you know the kitchen, you wind up in the kitchen. So there was a little metal cabinet and in there was all the spices and the hair, the food coloring.

And I say hair because once I saw the food coloring, you know, especially cause St. Patty's day and you know, everybody used to dress up for St. Paddy's Day, wear green. Even the Italians dressed up for St. Paddy's Day? My cousin Vinnie, they Irish and Italian, so they were Irish, so I just figured, they were like my brother and sister. So I had a green dress. It was the time, remember, in the 60s

when purple and green matched really well. Like gray, purple, and olive green. All the Bieber, Bieber colors. Do you remember Bieber? Oh yeah, what are you kidding? Yeah, aubergine, purple, dark greens. You did Wimbledon. See how fancy that is, aubergine.

Plus it was purple, gray, purple. Aubergine it was. So you were wearing a lot of purple and green. Plus it was purple, gray. Aubergine, purple. Aubergine it was. So you were wearing a lot of purple and green. Well, you know, green. And I'm wondering where that food coloring went, Cindy. Well, you see, first I was just on the cabinet because it had these metal doors with little things on the bottom you could put your feet on.

And if you hold the handles. And I got into this thing where you could flap And it felt like you were flying but you had to get off in time before the thing fell and Couple of times. No, she was always taking me out, but I always thought I could jump off in time You know, she was so good. She was so patient. God bless her. Yeah, and then I saw the food color Yeah, and then I you the food color. Yeah. And then I, you know, it was St. Patty's Day and I was wearing green.

But I didn't put the lemon in my hair because you're supposed to put lemon in your hair and sit in the sun. Are you blonde then? I was a little blonde. But not, you know, you gotta like kind of put the lemon in your hair. Yeah, to be able to lift the color. What happens to it?

So that when you put the green in it stays. Well, it just like, it shined a little green. How old were you? Nine. So she was, but you know, God bless her. She was so patient, but you know, she would cook on Sundays. You know, you start the sauce, you know, they have their rules, you know with meat it's garlic and

onion and bay leaf and Basil, but you have to be careful with the spices, but only if you're using meat but if you're not having meat, it's just either onion or garlic but not together either onion or garlic, but not together. And I don't know. It's like you never put cheese on fish, which as I grew older, I realized, why would you put cheese on fish?

That should be a ticket. Don't do it. Right? Except I like cheese on linguini al mare, you know? Yeah, but seafood pasta. I do like cheese on it. Cindy's like, no. Well, you know, not yourself, but...

No, I wouldn't. No. You know, I used to make a really good one. And you know, you learn from different people, you know, their family thing. Like when I was by Lenny Pizzi, they used to make a sauce where it was seafood, but then they'd put a little tuna fish to fill it Like from yeah, and and it did it was really interesting and tasty

But you know you always want to make your marinara you don't put the call you don't put onions in if you're using the seafood and then I Would have all the you know like you have to have sna, the periwinkles, but I started to see like the little periwinkles trying to get out of the shell and then I felt like okay. But they're alive then? Yeah, you have to have them alive otherwise, you know, but if you put them in the refrigerator they fall asleep. Oh my God.

And die like that which is a little better. Probably better for them than boiled. But honestly, after I saw all that, I felt really bad. So I kind of just. Do not eat seafood. Of course I do, but I try and keep it down to a bare minimum, the animal thing. I tried to be vegan, but you know.

And how did that go? You know. It's hard. I took one thing where they were just delivering food and they every day, spinach, every meal, spinach, I wound up having kidney stones and it killed me. Oh, do you get kidney stones from spinach? Yes, it has a chemical in it. If you eat too much of this kind of thing and you're prone to that, you can develop kidney stones.

Everything in moderation is good. And apparently not with that food company. So I stopped that, but I tried to eat on the road like that. But they would put these herbs and vegetables, like just flat out, what's wrong with it? You got cauliflower, what do you got to ruin it for? Just freaking wash it, cut it, put a little olive oil on it, some salt, put it in the broiler, don't burn it.

Do you have a chef when you're on tour? No, how am I going to do that? It's bad enough I got all this, I got 60 people. Now I'm going to carry a chef too. And I'm already taking- That would be the important thing for me, I think. Well. Having a chef. You deserve a chef. I'm also like taking like leadership courses so that I could be a good leader. To manage all the people. Well what am I going to do? You know you can't

have the manager saying she said what to who, what? You know so I have to. I think you're doing pretty well. I mean what, how many... You learn a lot you are I watched the documentary and I loved it by the way oh Alison that was Alison Alison it was beautiful but you I mean it's your story Cindy well who else is it gonna be the documentary was on me so I loved I was it called the canary sing the canary oh that was in the documentary yeah I didn't see it. I'm so sorry darling. It was a lawsuit. I was in a lawsuit. The last man, the manager I had, we were in Blue Angel. I noticed he didn't know what the hell he was doing and we weren't going anywhere. He made you a background. So I decided to have like, I went to him and I said listen we're not going anywhere how about

you let go we buy you out we get a deal you get a you get a piece of it and we can continue and be successful but no so we had to go and do a lawsuit. So we went to court. And then finally at the end of the whole thing, I mean it was just a stupid thing. I don't know why he didn't want to just make some money because you don't make money or for nothing. He was just determined that I was never going to sing again. That was unfortunate for him to think about. It's unfortunate for anyone to think about. They're gonna be the gatekeeper for me. Because any gatekeeper, I'm sorry, it ain't gonna work. I'm gonna look behind your shoulder and

I'm gonna go for you maybe, but not for me. And that's what I learned my whole life. Because, you know, I went to Catholic school and was here at the time of the Sisters of No Mercy at all yeah that was my school. I wanted to talk about that because that was quite a difficult time in your life I mean you talked so fondly about your mom and you know she's featured in your music videos and and you know you and your, I don't think your little brother was there. Yeah he was. He went to?

No he didn't go to the Gatorville schools. No he was separated. So you and your sister went to the school. The convent yeah. And what age were you when you went there? The convent, well you see it was all my fault that we got thrown into the gates of hell. It was really gates of heaven but it kind of felt like the gates of hell. It was really gates of heaven, but it kind of felt like the gates of hell at door. Because, you know, look, I always loved fashion,

and I know I was a weird kid anyway. And there was this priest walking back and forth, and you know how in third grade sometimes it's under the church? So the rectory was right there, and he kept walking back and forth. The thing is, it was a fashion thing. He had black pants, but he also had a pleated skirt over the pants.

And big beads, like swinging. This is the priest. Oh yeah, the priest. They would dress up. Why did they have a skirt on? Listen, remember the high masses? The guy would come in with a pointy hat and a purse so fierce it was on fire, right? It was like, how could you not like that? So, except for the fact when I wanted to be called Stefan,

he smacked me in the face and said Stephanie, and I said, it says Stefan, he said move along, you know. Why did you wanna be called Stefan? For Saint Stefan. Oh, sorry, I'm he said move along, you know. Why did you want to be called Stefan? For Saint Stefan. Oh, sorry, I'm a Jew, I don't know, what does Saint Stefan do? What's he do, what's he Saint of? I don't know, I liked the name.

The name's great. Yeah, right? Very clean. Why can't you have a unisex name? But you know how it was in the 60s, or 70s, it was hard for them. Plus they hated the folk mass, and of course I was there playing guitar and the folk mass and they hated us.

Did you sing at church? Were you in the choir? Yeah, I was in the choir. Yeah, well at eight I was too young to be in the choir, but I talked to my girlfriend Rosemary, who lived around the corner, Rosemary LaConte, good Italian girl. And I talked her into sitting in the church with me,

because I knew God was there, except I couldn't understand why God was living behind this gold door, like a small gold door. And I'm thinking, you know, he can afford something bigger than that, even if the door is nice. Come on. But I figured, oh, he always omnipresent, whatever the hell that means, because every time you ask a question, they said, oh, it's a mystery. I said, what does that mean?

Did just be quiet. Don't ask questions. You know, do you still do you believe in God? I don't believe half the crap that people tell you. I don't believe in gatekeepers. I think it's amazing that they have these organizations where they stand between you and your maker, if that's what it is. very young age I was very, very fortunate to see firsthand what people said and their behavior and how different it was. Because I took everything very seriously. When I was

getting married to Jesus, I was really excited. I mean, it was seven. That's confirmation, is that's confirmation no that's first Holy Communion and you know how old a little seven okay and you know you get a little oh do you wear like a bride yeah a little dress with wine and it's a big thing for your family yeah yeah yeah it's a big party Jesus it was big I was getting married but then when I was a flower girl for some for my godmother I thought I was getting married then too and I thought the the the pillow boy was such a drag He didn't even want to dance and I thought oh my god. I'm getting married to him. Well, oh well the dress is nice

You know, I didn't know. So I took everything serious. So when I was doing all that, I just, you know, you buy into all that. You have a guardian angel. I used to talk to him all the time. I used to wait, you know, I was waiting for the Holy Spirit to come so I squinted my eyes and see if the statues were gonna move or the candle was gonna turn into something ominous, you know, never did. You know, that's why when I saw Like A Prayer, the Madonna video, I was like, yes, I loved her.

After that, I just loved her. She insulted everyone. All together, it was awesome. But the reason I say this is is remember I told you about the priest Yeah, well, I used to go running after him To walk with him back and forth and back and forth and he always called me Sylvia No matter how many times I said, my name was Cynthia. He called me Sylvia. So I figured okay Sylvia so He called me Sylvia. So I figured okay Sylvia so

You know, I kind of became friends with him and then at confession You have to go to confession and I saw his name and I said wow I'll go to him and it'll go quick right because they figure they give you the act of contrition a couple of hand marries The old father you're out, right? So I go in I didn't go to mass and he starts telling me I'm gonna go to hell like my mother. So I said, I'm eight, mind you. I didn't tell him he was going to hell for saying that to an eight-year-old. Why would your mom go to hell?

Because she was divorced. She divorced when we were five. He says that to me, and I said to him, you don't know my mother. She's not going to hell. She's a good woman. She works really hard and she loves her kids. My mother is not going to hell. And all of a sudden I think that asshole remembered my name because the monsignor called my mother at home and told her that he thinks that we got to leave the school because the way she lives and what they preach are two different things. And that's the kindness. See, once you see through the veil, it's bullshit, right? And then when you go to the convent school

and you think, well first you think because they got to get you up at 5.30 to do all this shit and get to mass and get to school and then you're thinking, wow, God's an early rise. You know, because you got to get it all done. But it's food associated with Catholicism. So lots of religions, food plays a big part in it. Well, Fridays there's always fish. And then Christmas Eve you don't need meat. You don't need meat. It's the seven fishes. The seven fishes which did you watch The Bear?

No. Okay well they did a hot Jamie Lee Curtis plays an Italian mother and there's this whole incredible episode called The Seven Dishes. The Fish. Yes and it's it whole incredible episode called the seven dish fish yes and it's it that's how I learned about it through the bear I wanted to I wanted to ask you and they didn't do seven fishes so who didn't not my family my mother would make frittatas your mom she always did a great what was she taught us well fried potatoes and you put that in. It's kind of Spanish. It's a funny thing how Sicilian and Spanish food, I don't know, kind of like similar.

Because we were in Mallorca and we stopped in a cafe and it was like the frittata my mother used to make us on Christmas Eve because you can't eat meat. Frittata, I love frittata. You can't eat meat. Sometimes she'd put string beans in there. She was big on a health thing. Sometimes she would say,

she'd make a liver like it was veal cutlets and say, veal cutlets. I was like, my, that ain't veal. She like, it's good for you. So, you know, it was like, and poor Ellen, it was hard for her to get through. Sometimes we had to sit and eat the whole thing. So she was like, Ellen would be making

string beans and potatoes in the sandwich. It was like hard to look at. I was like, ooh. Can we talk about Ellen? Because Ellen features, well, your brother and your sister feature in the documentary and your sister's gay. And I wonder whether that was difficult. Also, you felt quite protective.

You have such a strong bond. I mean, she kind of, she took you in, I think, when you were expelled from school, when you were 17. Didn't you go, you went and stayed with her, and it was a car and Gregory, and like, she, you looked- No, no, that was later. Oh, was that later? But when I first left, yeah, she called me

and I told her what was happening. She said, just stuff a few things in a bag and get your ass here, it's not safe. Was that to do with your stepfather? Yeah. Yeah. But Ellen, you sound like you had loads of fun together. My mother, I was an intense kid. My mother told me I was born to be her friend.

So as we were growing up, if Ellen had friends, I always had a fit if she didn't play with me because that's why I was born, okay? I came here to be your friend and now you're playing with her, okay? So I know, I know. My poor mother, she was very patient. My sister too, but she tried to ditch me.

And then when she was coming out or dealing with her own sexuality, which was very hard for her. And was that quite early on? Ellen always wanted to be Peter Pan, or you know, or Annie Oakley, or Ellen wanted to be Peter Pan or, you know, or Annie Oakley or Ellen wanted cap guns. Ellen wanted to play drums. She was terrific.

She used to play the garbage pails and she had such great rhythm. What did she do as a job? Now? Well, she tried a lot of things. I always thought she was going to be a musician like me and be with me. But she did a lot. She worked on the railroad, doing the tithes. She worked as a ship's plumber, and she's little.

And then she became a carpenter. And then she wanted to be a healer. So she became an acupuncturist. And I thought to myself, well, that makes sense. I'm going to be a carpenter, that's nails. This is nails, just a whole different kind. But yeah. So she...

Where does she live? She lives in Los Angeles. Well, in Long Beach. Where do you live? New York. New York. Yeah, well, you know, my sister tried to get away, you know, because she wanted just to have her own life.

And it's very hard for people when they come out because, you know, you're accepted and you're raised in this Catholic thing. Anything outside the norm is you're taught to feel dirty, perverse. I just looked at my sister like she was always my sister. And you know, even if she tried to ditch me, I was always gonna be there. And I felt like it doesn't matter how hard you try, I'm your sister, I was born to be a friend and I'm here. And even when she was coming out and she had like,

she would have, you know, she would bring her friends who were angry and you know, and I remember this in this Seven days right and they would be like, you know, I remember one birthday party I wanted a birthday party and she had her friends and they were just looking at me and I was famous at that time and Everybody, you know know look everybody judges everybody so if you are the sister of somebody famous they just think you're rich and you should live this way or you know oh they're very straight or you know whatever they think. Does this post girls just want to have fun then? Okay. Would you like to eat something?

I've taken you at your word. Yeah. And I've made borscht. Does this post girls just want to have fun then? Okay. Would you like to eat something? I've taken you at your word. Yeah. And I've made borscht. Get out, really? Would you like that? Of course. Yes.

You don't have to eat it now. You can have a little bit. Do you want a little bit? Yeah, just a little. Yeah, yeah. What else did you make? You were cooking? There's bread with borscht with some bread and butter.

All right. And then I've made a tart, a fig and almond tart for afterwards. Wow, come on. So let me just, whilst my mum goes and gets the borscht, can I ask some of your favorite spots in New York that you go and eat when you come back from tour?

Sure. It depends what you're in the mood for. Give me a couple, three. Okay, there's a new place that opened, 219, it's in the 50s, 60s. It's a French beef stroll. Orson Welles used to go there. David would know the name, not me.

What's your order when you go there? Oh, at that place? Yeah. You know, fish. Yeah. They make it, well it's French foods you know so they'll have like a trout with you know. Thank you mom. Look at that. Thank you so much. So you'll have a bit of trout or will there be a Dover sole there? Yeah it depends you know if you go hell in a handbasket you're gonna get get the Freeds and yeah, yeah, and um Then there's also this

Indian place that used to be where Lucky Chance was on First Avenue Near Houston Street, it's right near Lucienne. I love Lucienne now. That's a great place It's right on First Avenue or of Houston and that's a beef store but it's really fun. It's really fun place. And Italian food, well there's Frankie's in Brooklyn. That's 457 Court Street. That's pretty good. Oh wow that's so nice. And the sour cream. Oh wow. What got you into borscht, Cindy? Well, my friend Yuda who does my hair, so you know, a couple of girls, but Yuda,

I don't know, she likes it. And so we'd be on the road, and I looked up different recipes, and I started to make borscht for her. On the road? Yeah, vegetarian, yeah, because I had a new Bullet, you know the yeah and

And uh, it's not really hard to make. Oh, thank you so much It's not that hard to make so you cook for your you cook for your crew when you're on tour No, just me. No, we used to do that. I don't do that anymore because I'm busy. Because the tour is a bigger one and it's demanding. And still, I didn't get past the PT. I've been doing PT every morning, but I got to do PT. Personal training?

It's physical therapy. Okay. Which means all the little muscles really slow. Yeah, okay. Then after you're done with that, it's supposed to move on to weights. Then after the weights, you wanna do some yoga. Do you want some, wow.

Sure, and then you gotta do your voice and incorporate the voice into the... Yeah sure, butter's always good. What's the expression ma'am? It's everything's better with butter. I love that. Especially with your voice. So wow, your whole day before a show you're doing physical therapy, you're doing weights, you're doing yoga. Then you do... how long's your vocal warm up? Well, for me, lately, when I was younger, it was different.

But, you know, sometimes I take lessons if I can, because I have lessons in the week, which is really, honestly, just physical therapy for vocals, because they listen to what's happening, here's the exercise to fix that. Okay. Thank you You know, but it's not just warm up because as you get older and your voice Expands there's more parts of your voice to warm up Right. It's not just one

Well, I mean I definitely warm up for longer now than I did and I guess that's just gonna carry on getting longer. Well for me, my voice doesn't really get going till an hour and a half. Cindy, I'm not a borscht expert. This is really nice, mum. Do you like it? Yeah, I like it.

It smells great. Well, I think it's healthy. Oh, this is really great. Do you like it? Yeah. So how'd you like it? Yeah. Good. So how'd you do it? Did you put cabbage in it?

Yeah. So cabbage, and did you do onions with the cabbage? Right, so I combined two recipes, a Ukrainian one and just a British one, but I have made the David Tanis recipe, which is a New York Times one. I don't know, but good. It's got beetroot, onion, carrot and potato. And then I put cabbage in at the end.

Oh wow. Am I doing it right? No. I don't know. It's great. There isn't any right, is there? There's no right and wrong. Normally it has beef in it. Oh, I don't do beef either.

Yeah, that's what I thought. Yes, so we didn't do the beef shim in it. Oh, I don't do beefy. Well, that's what I thought. Yes, so we didn't do the beef shilling there. Well, I say we, I did nothing. It's really good. I want it so, just enjoy your food and eat, but we will be asking you your last supper. Which-

Oh, come on. No, you're just going to a desert island. You're not dying. Oh, here with the desert island again. Oh, fuck, you did desert island this, didn't you? Come on. I ain't going to no desert island. First of all, I'm allergic to the sun.

I'm allergic to the cold. I'm not going to sit in the sun. I'm going to get wrinkles. I ain't going to do it. You're taking this far too literally, Cindy. Okay. Okay, be imaginative. All right, you're going to-

No imagination, that's normal. You're going to Bloody California, where for a very long time, and you're not gonna be able to eat your, I don't know, you're not gonna have your comforts, and you're not gonna have your favorite meal. So your last supper, starter, main, drink of choice, and dessert. Well, like first, starter, main, drink of choice and dessert.

Well, like first, if I was in California and it was close to the Mexican border. Yeah, you go. I'd be looking for those Mexican chefs that make the great Baja food, right? Mm-hmm. And I let them do it. And I go, wow, that's really good. The fish taco is probably really great. What's your favorite pasta?

Where? On Christmas, I talked David into it. Like Christmas Eve, we went out to eat. But Christmas Day, we made, I taught them how to make sauce. Like your mom's? Well, no, because she made everything with me. I showed them how to make like just a light sauce, kind of sweet.

And we went and got Saint Anne's raviolis, which you have to go to Bensonhurst to get. Where's that? They don't sell them. Bensonhurst, Brooklyn. Okay is that? They don't sell them. Bensonhurst, Brooklyn. Okay. And it's a weird place because sometimes they have very rude and angry salespeople, so you just got to keep your head low.

Get the raviolis for us, so we made raviolis with, I made kind of a sweet sauce, you know, because I think that's nice with raviolis, and I like sheep cheese, not cow cheese sometimes. So we made the sauce, which was easy. I just tried to show them, you know, you put the garlic in, you brown the garlic, you do not burn the garlic. You put the basil in, you know, but take it off the flame then. you know, I don't blanch the

tomatoes because you can't buy tomatoes anymore that tastes like tomatoes. So you get the same more whatever it is, more Zola, whatever. And you get the mill and you put the can of tomatoes in and you use the mill so that you don't get any seeds, right? So it goes in there. Now sometimes you could get a little tomato paste, put it in, mix it, but... So you mix it together. I usually put it up, let it boil, then put it way down to like really low. And my family is always like a teaspoon of salt, a tablespoon of sugar, but I do, I always do little at a time. So a quarter teaspoon of salt, half a teaspoon of sugar.

Taste it, smell it, then let it cook. Smell it again, taste it again. A little more salt, a little more sugar. Taste it, smell it, see where it lives. Then cover it and let it cook for like at least an hour or so. Then you put your water up, wait for it to boil, you put the salt in the water so it boils. You always want to use the salt in the water so that it's like, it reminds you of the sea, so it tastes like the sea, right? So you let it boil, then you take it out, and then you mix the sauce first on the bottom a little. Then you put the ravioli on top,

put a little more sauce on top. Then I plated it for him, and I scraped it. I taught him how to do the artichokes, not the fattening ones. We just did artichokes in the water. You cut them, you open them, you chop up the garlic, you put the garlic in there, you chop up the parsley, Italian parsley, you put that in there, you put it garlic in the water with the olive oil a little bit and you let it cook a little slow, but

that's got to go on early because that takes forever to cook. Do you do a dip? Well if you put the garlic in there, then you take the garlic out and you squeeze it into a bowl with a little olive oil and smash it and a tiny bit of salt and that becomes the dip. Gorgeous. You know it's simple. Simple food is always better and harder because everybody gets to get complicated. Do you have a sweet tooth? Horrible.

Oh really? Yeah. What's your go-to like sweet of choice that you'd have? I have to always stop myself. It doesn't matter, it's sugar. No, but Finaro's, it's on 11th Street in Manhattan between first and A, and it's an old, old Italian bakery. My favorite is the chocolate hazelnut cookies, because it's egg white really, with hazelnut.

And the piñoli cookies. I used to make them a little. Piñoli? I love piñoli. Pine nuts. Oh's the name? Oh. With the almond paste. So you can make it with the food processor.

And then I tried to use the coconut sugar so it wasn't so bad. You know. Did it taste as good? Yeah, it doesn't matter. You know, sugar's sugar. But you know, for me anyway. But yeah, I think that the piñole cookies are, you know, but that's how we grew up.

You know, when people come over, you know, especially Christmas Day, they brought the rambacas, the cannolis, the trichloride cookies, the little honey balls. They called them something else. But you know, there was so much. And you know, the poor things, they would always be like, May, May, I got to hug you, I got to hug you. Oh, get a promo cell, so okay, you know. It was like, it was so funny.

They were very funny. But you know, they would make the fatted calf. You know, they'd be like, you'd start out with salad or soup. And then you'd get, she'd put the lasagna on the table. See, they'd eat, everybody'd eat the lasagna. Then after lasagna, then came the meal. And you'd be like, oh, you can, then it was like, like lamb or turkey or, you know, it was always a meat thing.

And then after that, they put out some cheese and nuts and then here comes the dessert. And it's like, oh my God. And then my grandmother would always make her little coffee in that little cup. Oh, the little gashier, yeah. Yeah, and it would boil. And for us, she'd put a little aniseed, touch of aniseed in. In your espresso. What's aniseed?

Aniseed. Oh, aniseed. Ooh, I'm not sure. Was it nice? Yeah. Oh. You know, whatever. You know, they had their coffee when we were little. She put that in our water. Oh, okay. Like a drop and it would be all cloudy and you'd feel like a big grown-up. Wow, I guess I need that fork. Yeah. I hope it looks good. It looks gorgeous. doesn't it? Did you bake this?

Yeah. Wow. I made it last night. She's a good chef. No, I'm not. But it looks quite good. Just tell me how big a piece you want. Small, please.

Yeah, I know. A slither. I have a good one, so it's not going to fucking work for me. Do you want some cream? Yeah, I do. Yeah, that's good, so. What's it taste like? Well, obviously, thick. But can you taste some cream? Yeah, I do. Yeah, that's good. So what's it taste like? Well, obviously fig

But can you taste the fig? Yes, right on top But you never know if they're gonna be good enough figs do you? Mmm, did you make that pastry? Yeah. Mum! It's really good, the pastry. It's very good. So how'd you do that? Just with butter and flour.

Really? Yeah. Awesome. It's quite crisp, isn't it? Yeah, it's crunchy. It's crunchy. Poor Hollywood would give you a handshake for that. Can you taste the orange? Yes, it's so good.

This is good, Mum. It's really good. Well, good because you take the rest home. Cindy, please take some for later. Do you think your crew, I did bring some. Nikki would like some. I brought some cartons in case you want to take

some soup home. Sure. Just in case. Oh, that's so nice. Yeah you know. What about Lopate? Did she? Boy she even took some home boy. No that's how we like it. Cindy can you give me a nostalgic taste that can transport you back somewhere? Oh god but they don't make cannolis like they used to when I was little. When my mother passed away in 2022, we went to Positano for the first time and they had

a cook there. And I was really kind of a little beat up. And my husband and I also got this um stress thing on my face. Bell's pulsing? No no no no no just break out really bad and I thought it was psoriasis it just was nerves and he and my husband was like maybe you don't want to go I said I'm going I'm going I'm gonna wear a mask, everything's good. So this lady started to cook and everything she made, it was like I was little again. Because when I was small,

they were all Italian making Italian food. You know, they give you the pastino with the butter or they make the sauce and it's just delicate, or they make, and there, everything was zucchini, because they grew it, you know, and the cherry, the little tomatoes, and the tomatoes there taste like real tomatoes. And they would, she would make it,

and I just felt like a little kid. I just felt nourished and it took me way back to Brooklyn, you know. And I think that that kind of soul, that's soul food for me, you know. Do you go to Italy on holiday a lot? Um, yeah. But I want to go to Sicily. Have you never been? Yeah.

Right, right. You know. But I want to see my family, but I don't want to interrupt them and go, hey, I'm coming. And you know. Because everybody is cuckoo. You know, it just wants them to relax. Will you be touring Italy on your... No. Oh, what a shame.

No, because, you know, it's always like... You can't go there. It's too expensive. I know. Where are you touring which European countries? I am going to Germany. So in Düsseldorf, all the German relatives are coming. Okay. So my cousin, her husband, the kids, I know those kids since they were little and my cousin, I know her since she was little and her father and her mother and her sister and her son, they were all coming. So it'd be fun. You know, but it's quick. Where

else are you going? Berlin, Düsseldorf. We're going to Poland. I don't know anybody there, but... Jessie loves it. I've never been to Poland. I mean, they're a good crowd. I mean, they don't even go. They're quite devoted. To Poland, you know, like who goes to Poland?

But I figured, you know what? It's your farewell tour. You've never been to Poland, which means you'll never be if you don't go now. So... Is it really your farewell tour? No, it won't be your farewell tour. Oh, hell yeah.

Are you sure? Yeah, you're gonna be like Elton though, who keeps on like, yeah. You ever go on tour? No. Yeah, which we did, no. You'd love to- Yeah, you don't know what it's like. No, well we, no, I tell you, we went on a podcast tour.

Lenny, first timer, ordering cocktails, drinks, champagne, having the time of her life up late. First tour, last tour. I was like, I need to rest my voice and go to sleep. Lenny was in the hotel bar having a big one. That's exhausting. Here's the thing.

First of all, you gotta pack, pack in, pack out. Even if you're not doing the packing, you're there. It's stressful. You gotta get your stuff done. You need your stuff to do your work. Then you gotta make sure you have it. Gotta make sure you get there. Get to sleep. Get up. Go to the gig after five hours of doing what you have to do just to get to the gig. Then you gotta do the gig. Then when you're done with the gig, even if you're feeling edgy, you still gotta get back, get stuff off of you,

get undressed, try and steam, but that's gotta go into the truck and you gotta hurry up. And then you gotta go on the double decker bus now. I haven't been on that. Oh yeah, because you don't do double decker in the States. Yeah, well I'm just wondering if I need that Velcro blanket.

Because I'm in, you know, they put the star in the back. You ever be on the back of a... No, I saw where Jessie was. It's kind of like a freaking wash and dry cycle. No, I couldn't be doing that. You know, I tried to make the bed and I was being flown over here. But don't you feel sick when you're travelling? No, I just felt like I was in an I Love Lucy episode. What about going to the

office room? Oh, no solid waste. I know. That would be the very... When we first used to go on tour, my friend, she was a percussion player, Sue Hijab was, we used to do this solid waste dancers thing but you know. But you're an amazing performer. No I love it. I know there's a lot it's all the stuff around it I know. Maybe you should do a residency in New York. Who knows? Yeah it's not like I'm not gonna sing it. No because I'm just not gonna. Have you done a residency in Las Vegas? You like Las Vegas, do you? I think, let's go New York, let's find a little... No, but it's warm.

It's warm. Honey, it's more than warm. It might be good for your... It's shaking big. It's 110 degrees sometimes. But wouldn't it be good for your body, your psoriasis? The dryness. She's got it under control, I think.

Oh, hell no. You need, do you need... Moisture. Moisture, okay. I mean, hell no. You need, do you need, damn it. Moisture. Oh, moisture, okay. I mean, you know. It is the driest place I've ever been to. My skin.

Cindy, I'm like. Your skin is phenomenal. Can I just say, you look gorgeous. Yeah, but I did a facial this morning. I did the collagen pads. I did the light therapy. I had platelets in my face. I work really hard at looking good.

You look great. Because, yeah, well, what if I didn't? And your skin is like parchment, it's beautiful. Well, my mother had good skin, and my great-grandfather had good skin, and my grandmother had good skin. But if you don't take care of it, and then of course when it got to rysis,

I realized that the skin is an organ. Yeah. And I had no idea because when I was covered head to toe that's when I learned what the skin does because I was always freezing and cold and freezing and cold and then I realized oh, oh that's what the skin does. It regulates body temperature. Before we let you go. We're leaving.

Okay. Well I don't really want you to, you're holding an amethyst. I think it's an amethyst crystal. Oh yeah. Do you travel with crystals a lot? Yes, I got rocks. She's just your type of gal. She's my kind of gal.

Jessie loves a crystal. I love a crystal, yeah. You know. But you've got this one out, is that just because it was in your pocket or are you feeling like you need it right now? No, no, I always hold this, my favorite rock. It's new.

You can put your fingers like that, but it's kind of a quartz too. Okay. So it's a combination of quartz and amethyst together. And it's smoky. And it's got some action in there. So it's good. It's just grounding.

It's good. I have just grounding, it's good. I have other stones that I take. I like them, but my husband thinks, you don't need any more rocks. But yeah, I like them. Does your husband travel with you? Never. No, he's, girls just want to have fun.

He'll come to see me. He came five times to see the show in the States. Already. And he was fantastic and he took pictures. I'll show you the pictures of the people... I need to come and see the show, definitely. ...that come, because they come dressed up. It's a safe place for people to come and just be who you are and have fun, no judgement. It's happy, make you laugh, people crying, dancing. My daughter did True Colours in her Christmas concert and hearing it. Listen, I know it's a huge gay anthem but also it's for everyone. It's for everybody.

It's for everybody. But I have to say, a big gang of kids singing it really hit the spot. It was moving when children sing it. Yeah. It's moving when children sing anything that they feel, that makes them feel good. And for me, there are some special songs. And I was, I'm grateful to be part of two songs. I didn't write them. They're my arrangements, but I didn't write them.

Girls and True Colors, you know. I thought, so who wrote True Colors? Because I thought it was about your friend. Well, yes, I sang it because my friend had passed away and he had asked me to sing a song like That's What Friends Are For. Gregory asked that. He said write me a song like That's What Friends Are For and I looked at him and I'm thinking okay and I'm thinking to myself that's Bert Bacharach, that's a big order. So I tried, I wrote Boy Blue because I was very emotional, but I realized later that, you know, you can't pour out your heart and your liver for repetitive play. It has to be more, you know. But when I did True Colors, that was different because it was a healing song and it was for us, for the

people who survived him and for him. And I didn't realize till years later because a lot of people gravitated to that song. There were little kids that were sick with cancer that used to hold on to that song and it made them feel better. And I'll be honest with you in the beginning of my career there were bags of fan mail that I didn't even see that just got tossed. And then I started to kind of get a few things and understand. You know, I knew that it was a healing song. I knew that. And it was really hard because with girls, you're trumpeting an idea. It's in a trumpet key, it's loud. You can get people's attention. With True Colors, everything was an interior rhythm. It was interior. The drum was meant to be like an archaic calling, like the oldest communication as a human is the drum, right?

Because the drum, and you'd listen, and they'd answer, right? So that was supposed to call from inside. And then I wanted the voice, my voice, to sound like I was whispering in your ear, especially if you're driving in a car. So there was this machine, it's the de-esser, and it kind of works both ways. You can take the S out or you can put the S in. And it just brought more breath to it. And I was able to make it so that in the tiniest voice, in the most tender voice I could have that voice whisper to the most tender part of a person,

so that they would, wherever it hurt, it would heal. And then you sing these words, I didn't when I tried to put more music in it and give it welly you know as you guys say it it didn't take it it became a little corny hmm because when the sentiment is that strong. You didn't need that with the rest of it. You can't give it a strong powerful thing because it's powerful on its own. So I had to learn the power of a whisper. That was a big change. So when I would be on TV, I was holding the crystal too, because I was scared to death. Because all of a sudden, I had to grab people's attention with this song. And all I heard in my head was, healer, heal. And I knew the song was a healing song, so I did it like that.

That was my intention, and I just let go. I see. And because when your intention is that, sometimes on a very commercial kind of thing, you kind of get through the gatekeepers and do something that you get to be a part of something extraordinary. And all the musicians that played on that and the engineers and all the people that sold

it were a part of that really special thing. And just as Girls was, I mean girls everybody just said, ah girls just want to have fun. You know and And then I thought, yeah, and the wrestlers, right, why not? I'm a wrestling manager now, okay. But underneath, what was it saying? What was the video saying? The video was saying that don't matter what color you are or who you are, so that every little girl could see herself and know that she too is entitled to a joyful experience in life. And that was the bottom line.

And on top, yeah, all the gatekeepers like, oh, it's really catchy, okay, you know, and it was. And it is. And it is fun. But underneath, the only time that I really felt and cried was at the first woman's demonstration. When everybody wore pink hats and I saw these young girls with these signs, girls just want to have fundamental rights. And I used to get in trouble for talking about feminism and blah blah blah. Why can't you just wear jeans and a t-shirt and sing and what's the matter with you and blah blah blah. But the little ones heard and then that's

why when I saw the sign I called up my friends who I started True Colors with and I said listen you see what's going on here let's start the girls just want to have fundamental rights fund and at first they were like well you know it was such a and then they said okay and that's what we did and we've raised money and you could even go on the website you can find girls just want to have fundamental rights fund and see what we've done with the money because we've raised money and what organizations we've given it to and how we have helped and we're still raising money. You are extraordinary you're inspiring you're brilliant you're

brilliant. I want to know but but I wanna leave everyone with this. Funny story, my manager, who isn't here today, went to see you, I think about 20 years ago or something. Oh, 20 years ago. But you did a show at GAY. GAY? GAY was a big gay, it's a big gay night here. And in SoHo.

And you did, you did, I don't know, it must have been about 20 years ago. Or maybe... oh my god I'm trying to figure what I wore because it was a lot of fun. And was it a gorilla outfit? I'm not sure what I What I do know is that he was walking home with his new boyfriend And they were walking home through old Compton Street and a car drives past them window winds down It's you and you say, hey, I'm going for breakfast, come on, get in.

And he said he didn't get in and it's one of the biggest mistakes of his life. I said that? Yes. I did that? Yes, and he's just been to see you, you're inviting him for breakfast. He's too busy wanting to get home with David

because they're at the beginnings of their relationship. I'm happy to say they're still together, but it is a big regret that he didn't jump in for breakfast. Oh my God. I'm happy to say they're still together, but it is a big regret that he didn't jump in for breakfast. Oh my God, I can't believe I did that. I don't remember doing that, but wow. He just said it was one of the biggest regrets he's ever had. Oh, don't be. But he is still with his lovely guy.

But that's not a regret then, is it? Thank you so much, Cindy, for being on this. You are brilliant, and I think we could have done about a part one, a part two, a part three, a part four. I wish you all the best with the farewell tour. Thank you. Thank you, it's been such... I can't believe you cooked for us. Thank you. Oh no, it was a pleasure. My pleasure. I'm glad you ate. I even ate at my own wedding. I just want to have fun. I want to have a whole year of fun with Cindy Norfolk. She's

amazing. She just is enthusiastic about everything. She's funny, talks. She has a story about everything. I didn't even get to ask her about Prince, like one of her good friends in singing When You Were Mine and I bet she had a good Prince story. I mean, didn't talk about the Goonies. I'm sorry, I acknowledge this. We had, you know, a certain amount of time and she had a lot of stories. She's completely wonderful. She's fab, she's stylish, she's inspiring and she's on tour next week at the O2 and UK and Europe and you should go and see her because she'll put on quite a show and just a big fan of Cyndi Lauper. Food was really nice mum. There's no butts today. No it was great. Did you like the borscht?

Yeah, I mean, for like a beetroot soup, yeah. It's not my biggest thing. Me neither. We're all going to have pink whey later, aren't we? Are we? Yeah, and pink poo. Oh, okay. Just to warn you. Great. But yeah, loved that. That was amazing. Right. That was like a whirlwind. Yeah. Did you like the tart?

Loved the tart. Do you want that for your brunch tomorrow? No, no I'm fine. It's delicious though. Thank you so much to Cyndi Lauper, thanks mum for doing it and also thanks to Andy for letting us use his flat today. Thank you Andy Barker. We'll see you soon next week. Bye. You