Table Manners with Jessie and Lennie Ware - Emma Barnett

Episode Date: January 11, 2026

It’s our first episode of 2026 and we have the wonderful broadcaster and radio presenter Emma Barnett joining us for lunch after an early morning start for her at Radio 4. Emma has actually interviewed me before (and we got quite drunk together back in 2011), and it turns out that mum & Emma’s mum went to school in Manchester many moons ago! We covered everything from her breakfast routine, nostalgic Jewish food, being a colouring-in-book entrepreneur, her endometriosis diagnosis, the amazing guests she has interviewed over the years, and we reminisce about the time she got a Conservative MP to apologise live on air for lying! What a delight to share an afternoon with Emma, one day we’ll have to take a trip to Manchester to check out the bagels together. Emma’s fab new podcast ‘Ready To Talk’ is available on BBC Sounds and all other podcast platforms now. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello and welcome to Table Manners and we're wishing you a very, very happy New Year. How was everyone's new years? How was everyone's Christmases? First podcast of the new year, darling. And, yeah, I hope 2026 is a really good one. How are you? I'm okay, darling. I only saw you 12 hours ago. Yeah. And I've been up cooking since. No rest for the podcasting Wicked.

No. Well, I can tell you who's probably more tired than us. Yeah. Our guest that's coming on today. That's sensible. Off. Emma Barnett, who is one of the hosts of the Today program on Radio 4. You might have heard it also when she had her own show on 5 Live, Radio 5 Live, where she'd have really long, brilliant conversations with the listeners.

Or, then she moved on to Women's Out, and I think she was such an amazing presenter. She was so good about all women's issues. She was powerful. She got the best interviews. I just adored her. Then she moved on. Well, we can hear, I heard her this morning talking about the issue with, um, water.

Water. What a bloody cheek. I know. She said she would be worried to shower in it. I know. Five days without water. But also she's been a real spokesperson for women's health issues because she has suffered with endometriosis, rounds of IVF, failed IVF and miscarriages.

She released a book called Period. It's about bloody time, which was about her struggle. with endometriosis. She also did a really interesting book about maternity leave or, as she calls it, maternity service and what she thinks women should be entitled to when they have a baby. She's a good old Mancunian. Nice Jewish girl. Nice Jewish girl.

Went to my school. She also interviewed me years ago in Brixton Market for Time Out magazine. I don't think she was on the radio then. She's worked for the Daily Telegraph. She's had a column in the Sunday Times. called Tough Love. She's kind of done everything. She's also now an entrepreneur.

She has a colouring in book business with her husband. Where you colour in your own area. Yeah. So you can find an area where you can find Brixton, Clapham, probably where you live, Jess. I don't think she's done a new crosswind. Well, you better tell her. And then also what she's coming on today to talk about

is her new BBC Sounds podcast. Brilliant. It's called Ready to Talk. and it's Emma talking to people about subjects that I think have affected her. You know, the first episode was with Kate Thornton and it's about perimenopause. Emma is just an incredible interviewer and conversationalist and I'm terrified that I'm not going to be able to give enough facts. Let's just hope she's ready to talk. Oh, very good, Lenny.

And what have you made for Emma? I've made an obejeeam parmesan. basically because I love it and I've just done a green salad remember it's almost dinner time for her now she's been up since four so eight hours in it's a long day it's the end of the day for her

may I commend you mom we've made a vegetarian dish without making a big deal out of it no prompting and then I have made a white chocolate cheesecake and I made a fresh fruit salad a la Cousin Liz cousin Liz so it's got tin light cheese in it

no actually I have got Stem ginger? I've got stem ginger in it. Yeah. If you ever want to josh up a fruit salad, just put a bit of stem ginger in there. Yeah. It will look like you've made a real effort. You have made an effort. I have made an effort. Emma Barnett, coming up on Tableman.

Emma Barnett, thank you very much for being here after doing a, you know, a good shift. You've done my shift. At Radio 4. I've done the Today program this morning. And straight here, because I'm ready for lunch or dinner at this point. Yeah, that's what we thought. We didn't know what to do. So what time were you up this morning and what kind of,

eggs did you have this morning? I woke up. I did the thing, when it's the first one of the week, I do that thing, a bit like when you're going on an early airplane where you wake up a bit earlier than you need to. So I woke up at 1.30 and was like, oh no, there's still two hours, nearly two hours left, because I get up at 321. 321? It's a strange thing. I have to, since a child, I don't have anything else like this. I don't need to shut cupboards a certain way or anything. I just like getting up one minute extra. It's like my, rebelling against the machine. It gives me no extra sleep, but there's just something about the jagged edge of it that I quite like to. Why don't we push it to 325? I know, it'd be crazy, right?

I like a 1 or a 3. Okay, okay. There's something going on there. Interesting. Let's not analyze it. So I got up, I got up. I did go back to sleep, but 1.30, got back up. And I go down, well, go to the loo, get dressed like a bit of a ninja, everything's laid out. And my husband somehow stays asleep. That's amazing. Which is quite ninja skills in itself. You must be quite considerate. I am. I've got very good at it, kind of sleuth skills, and makeup goes on. It's a sort of 19 minute regime. It's drilled.

Do you put your own makeup on? You don't just get in the taxi and then do it then? Even though it's filmed, there is no makeup for radio presenters, which... That is not horror. There's no makeup for podcasters either. Just to lay it on this morning.

You both look great. Well, so do you. And then I get out, I get downstairs, our kitchen's in the basement, It's more of these tall sort of Victorian houses and I sneak downstairs and I get my two hard-boiled eggs and I have a bit of a probiotic or a thing in the morning just to try and kickstart the system.

Grab my fruits from the fridge. Every other bit is packed already of food because there's no cafes open at this time of the morning. And so yeah, the food is actually a huge operation and I realized how tiredness would make you eat badly, like really badly in the morning. When I used to do maybe newspaper reviews back in the day on other people's breakfast program,

So I've been quite disciplined So I had this morning What did I manage? Sometimes you don't really feel like eating a lot But I start the day It's pretty punchy I have a hot water when I go in at 4, 415 And you know you're reading news

And what's happened overnight And briefs from the minute you get in And I have a beef sausage So it is an organic, fermented Nobody's in it It's from one of like the heath, health It's probably Oh yeah, yeah

Yeah I don't know how you say it It's a bit weird She-A-L-F. Yes. I can't accept sponsorship I work at the BBC, but that is what I found through a friend. That's a real shame, I know. It's a peppery beef sausage. It's a jerk? Yeah, but it's...

Is it cold? It's cold. Like a healthy pepperoni. Like a healthy pepperoni. Yeah. Oh. So I want some protein and I like savory. I love Marmite like you.

And so I have that. That's the first thing I eat. Then I have a strong cup of tea and I'm very particular about tea and I don't drink coffee. and then I hit in no more order a banana, a hard-boiled egg, maybe a bit of avow, everything's in constituent parts, so it's a bit of a fat. Small bits. I'm sort of eating protein for two hours until I go on air.

Is this a new thing doing the protein? And was it to do with kind of body changing and things like that? Yes, I think, so there was a mixture. So when I presented women's hour, for years, so I've been a 10am live broadcaster for about 10 years. and I was able, because it was on at a normal hour of the day, to go to the BBC canteen, and I would often have a couple of poached eggs, some toast, a bit of marmite, that sort of breakfast,

and just bring a bit of fruit in. What's changed is I had to bring my own food, and a lot of people do cereal and porridge, like the other presenters and produce. You have a little kitchen there. You do, yeah, you have a kitchen on each floor of the BBC, there's a fridge, there's all of that. But I don't get, I've never gotten well with cereal,

sort of sugary stuff in the morning. I just don't really like it. some Moly Rajat I'm having? I don't think he eats. Oh, he fast, doesn't he? Yeah. So I start, when I started the Today program, I tried that and I, just in terms of maybe I'd be ready to eat later, I was trying to figure out how I felt. I can't do that. I need food, but sort of an hour of waking up. But you don't have any carbohydrate. So I do, I do have some, some toast or some sourdough or something, maybe afterwards. Oh, after? But I have reduced that. So I'm trying to be honest around food at the moment. I'm on a bit of a horrible thing with it, because,

of my endometriosis, adenomyosis, perimenopause. What's the other one? Don't worry, no one even knows. It's where the womb lining grows in on itself. I only found out about that a few years after the endometriosis up, and I had a miscarriage. So it's very painful. So I've got these two things.

All you need to know is they're both inflammatory conditions. So the body needs to, you know, calm down for the little that we know about it. So I don't eat as much, for instance, fried or breads at the moment, fried food or breads, which are my favourite things. But I do still eat them. It's just I don't start the day like that. Things can change as we go through the day. But I try and start quite like that.

So breakfast is a long event. It's quite long. And then when I'm working at home. When you're working. So then when you go back, I mean, you're going to eat something here at home. Very excited. But when you go back, would you have, if you were going home, straight home, what would you eat now, like your dinner?

Yes, I did have a tiny place of something. thing before I came out. And I had, I didn't, for instance, I took an avocados. I can't always be bothered with the faf of getting everything ready or eating it. So I had a bit of that with a bit of sourdough just when I got it. Yeah. Butter, loads of butter. That might be it. Or there's a cafe I like going proper calf around the corner from the BBC called Franks. They do the best cup of tea. It's made with real tea leaves, which I never do for myself. It's lovely. And then I might have their omelette. So I might have even more eggs, but with some veg. Is that Frank's in Titchfield Street? Yes.

Yeah, I used to go there when I went to court in Wells Street. Okay. So, and they have great coffee. I think they're Portuguese. Oh, I don't know. They're either Italian or Portuguese. Yes, I think they might be as well. But the coffee was brilliant.

I think they're Italian. The tea is delicious. Oh, okay. Because I have a four minute brew for tea. That's like religious. And what's the bag? It is now Clipper, English breakfast organic. Oh, I didn't even know.

I do like Yorkshire. I did it for a long time. It's too strong. Why I like strong too. But I make everybody else a cup of tea Or I just, because I want to make my own No, people say I can't do it like that So please can I just have it half

How much milk? Not just a dash, a dash in a bit So it's not black, it's not brown brown But it's terribly organised Emma In the morning, I mean you're asking Yeah, no, but you're asking about the mornings Of work Yeah

On other, I've got a two-year-old and a severer year old I get up and we see what happens On all the other mornings Although you have to get them to school, you know one of them to school, certainly. So I don't usually do drop off. I'm team pick up. So the mornings with kids, I'm still not as good as.

Emma, we need to get something very important out of the way. Yes. Manchester bagels. Are they not the best bagels in the whole universe? Brackman. Were you a fan? The best bagels. Well, I don't know.

This is probably not in your age range. So we should declare when you and I first met and I interviewed, and I interviewed Jesse. It was the telegraph. Oh, it was the telegraph. And when I was working there and I was setting up the women's section, You were one of my first guests, one of my first interviewees. And we had this, you know, really good chat that was starting.

And then I'd read your mum, had a Manchester connection or something. And then we realised that you had been at school with my mother. And it got even we even weirder because, well, we sort of talked about lots of different things that we had in common. And then you said, you should live here because I was looking where to live in London. And you took me around a bit. And you're one of the reasons I moved to West West West London. So Brixton at first, and now I'm a bit more sort of of Harnhill, Brixton.

Oh, you're closer to me now, maybe. And it just was like one of those things. And my husband grew up in, he was born in New York, but he grew up in Dulwich and Crystal Palace Way that way. Oh, so it's perfect. I rang him up as we'd had a few. And I was like, I've been out with this pop star. Yeah, we went for cocktails.

Yeah. And she said. At seven. Of course you did, darling. Yes, it was seven. And you knew the people. And I said, she said, we should live in Brixton. So we're going to move to Brixton. I was so affirmative about this.

The Mancunia. And then I rang my mum. I was like, Mum. And so this whole thing had spider tails. So yes, that was the link. And Manchester, I was just going to say, and it's linked to food, but her grandfather, my great-grandfather, ran a bakery in Manchester called Seafs.

Oh, I remember Seafs. Do you remember Seas? Okay, well, no, but, you know, obviously. And his black bread was meant to be amazing. So I don't think we can join the bagel. There is not a black bread in London that I've ever found the same with that souring. that you got from Blackhead.

It's the Carol. It's the Carolways. It's the carroweys season. No, it isn't. It must be rye that they put in. It was slightly sour and it was really good colour. And then you'd cut it. It was almost better than bagels on a, on a Sunday. It was great with smoked salmon. But Blackpool tomatoes were the best to go on a cheese and tomato sandwich. I just took my whole southern family to Blackpool to see the illuminations. How are they faring nowadays? Jess's favourite place on Earth. Did you used to go?

And your donkey. What was your donkey? What was your donkey? A donkey called Popeye. All the donkeys were called Popeye. It was a real day out. Let me tell you, we did went for a weekend, and it didn't stop raining. It was raining so hard. It was sideways, but we did get a bit of a break the next day, and I did not expect us to be talking about Blackpool.

But I agree with you on bagels, and there's great stories. I didn't get to go to my great-grandfather's bakery. He sadly died when my grandfather was very young, but the women took it over. It was their business. Apart from it being amazing that these women sort of, took it on and my great-aunty, you know, when people were called Queenie. Such good. They sort of ran this business from the stories I hear and, you know, put my grandfather and

grandmother through, you know, education and did all these grandfather and his sister, I should say, my great-a-a-old, excuse me, these names are just brilliant. So there's just these lovely names, aren't there, that paints a picture of that era. But he'd come over as, you know, a complete refugee with nothing from Latvia and taught himself to bake. And he was giving out, the story I always love about him is he was giving out. the end of the day, you know, the stuff that was left over, long before Pratt and people had these, he was giving it out to the poor because he'd come with nothing.

And people have these lovely memories of him that they sometimes share with me, or certainly of the baked goods. But in terms of the synagogue, we were members, certainly I was a member, the family was members of Heaton Park Synagogue, which was just in the news because on October 2nd, which happened to be Yon Kippur, the holiest day of the Jewish calendar, there was, as the police have called it, a terrorist attack. and the attacker came to obviously try and do great harm. And there was two people lost their lives, other people were stabbed. I've actually just interviewed on my new podcast, which is called Ready to Talk.

And he is ready to talk, even though it's so soon. An amazing man called Yonnie Finlay. I heard him. He's got four children, and he was in trying to actually help lead the service that day. And what's incredible is it's thought, and I just can't get my head around this, that the bullet from the police trying to take out Jihad al-Shimil, the attacker went through Jihad al-Shimi ultimately killing him, through the synagogue doors, through Yonni's body,

and through Adrian behind him, another congregant trying to barricade the doors. And it kills Adrian, it kills the attacker, and Yonni survives. And it's your face, I mean, it's like, it's one of those things. It was beshech. It was, yeah, which means meant to be. It's meant to be, definitely. Yeah, but it's still.

It must have just been the position where it went through. He must have such, I mean, sure, him and his family are so thankful he's alive, but there's guilt with that too. And like, it's just. Which he talks about, you know, in the podcast, which I just recorded it. So it's very fresh in my mind. And he also feels this huge pressure to do something now with his life, you know, to make good with his life.

And he's a lot of complicated emotions because they're a community grieving, you know. And it was just very strange because, you know, you know those streets very well. and when it happened you take yourself right back there and there's no getting away from the fact that a man woke up that morning and wanted to go and kill a load of Jews. It's a very, very difficult reality to get to grips with. About your new podcast, ready to talk,

what made you decide to do a podcast? I mean, it makes a lot of sense. I mean, what has been strange, obviously as a live broadcaster, especially for instance on something like Women's Hour, the podcast is huge. So you have a podcast that you work, and I used to present that program four days a week,

Whereas having a room of one's own, an audio room of one's own, and the space to have longer with people to talk to them. And, you know, my skill, my craft is interviewing. And I take it really seriously and people tell me the most amazing stories. And I wanted to create a very special place to do that. And it just felt the right time, the right moment. And I also feel, although I'm obviously, for people who've known my work, you know, they kind of know me around big interviews of the moment.

and the big headlines. I also increasingly feel the most important stories are the biggest headlines of our lives. You know, the biggest things in our lives that change us, make us feel differently, look a different way. And I feel in quite a fractured world, finding, and my scale, I hope, is to draw people out and, you know, finding the stories

that you might not be able to relate to, but actually change you by hearing them. So some of the people that have already been on, you know, you started this season with, Kate Thornton, your HRT fairy, and that was very open and... Yeah, I decided to expose myself for the first episode, which was not necessarily the plan,

but it sort of just happened. And I met Kate, I mean, the first time I saw Kate, she was on X Factor, like everybody else saw, those sorts of programmes. And then we happened to meet on the local train and I really, on the tube in Brixton, and I really liked her glasses. So we just had one of those chats that women have,

like, where are they from? And we'd sort of seen each other around. And then, I don't know what sort of happened, but we ended up texting about that. And then she asked me out for a drink. I said, I'm just going through something at the moment. I didn't really know what was going on. And I had all this IVF to have our children.

And I'd come out of that, and I was 38 at the time. And I just didn't feel quite right. And I thought it was my endometriosis, because obviously when you stop breastfeeding, your cycles come back, I was in loads of pain. But it was kind of different because I felt quite different. And I didn't know what. I just didn't feel quite like me.

And I won't go through the whole thing, but we've had a massive response to that conversation because in it I talk about how I didn't realise what I was going through perimenopause the beginning stages of it. So all my hormones were just in decline. But also, well that's what I thought, but it starts for a lot of women in their 30s

without them realising it, going through your 40s and then... But you just had your baby? Yes, it was... And I've just gone back to work and... You must have thought maybe I'm really overwhelmed, tired. Yes, I put it down to... To lots of other things

and I went on this hormone. safari because one of the things they say for endometriosis because they don't have a cure, they don't know what's causing it, they don't know if it's genetic, any of those questions, they literally know nothing still, which is unbelievable for the amount of women it affects and how it changes and affects our lives, is they want to put you on hormones. So they put you on synthetic hormones, they put you on the coil, the same stuff, the same shit, to be honest, if I'm allowed to swear, that they put you on when you were 16, you know, that your body actually struggles with then, but you sort of deal with and get through it.

The other daughter always says if men had it, they would find a cure very quickly. That women's health is so neglected. It is. And so I went on the coil. I did all these different things and I wasn't getting on with them. And a thing that I'd always like to share is that a lot of women, especially after 35, just can't tolerate synthetic hormones anymore. You know, they go back on that pill that was amazing when they were 25 or at least tolerable.

And we remember it is amazing. In my case, I was probably drunk half the time. And, you know, I can't tolerate booze in the same way. you know, our bodies change. And I just couldn't do it. And then it took a long road of figuring out, I think I actually need bioidentical hormones, which is estrogen, progesterone, and a little bit of testosterone.

How are you feeling now? I am still fine-tuning what I take and learning about my body. I want to say I'm doing a lot better. I'm definitely on the road. It's just the other thing, you know, women who've spoken out before me, who I'm really grateful for to read about their experiences,

or listen to them is that it takes a while to find your thing. I feel like I'm DJing my body slightly. But having done IVF, unlike some of my friends, I'm actually okay with it. Some of the same things. I mean, it's not great, but I'm also grateful to have it and to have the chance to, you know, because the other thing that happens is obviously women get offered

antidepressants, left, right and centre. And, you know, nine million people in England are on antidepressants. Nine million. You know, we are in a, the grip of, of, and for some people, this is very much the right thing. But for busy doctors, you don't know necessarily what's going on with people, especially women, this is what is often offered. And, you know, they were called Mummy's Little Helpers in the 60s for a good reason,

because women were stuck at home often without anything to do and sort of losing themselves. And now a few men I know are doing the house husband thing, as it were, in inverted commas, and they're like, how did women ever put up with this? I'm like, you think? So I don't think we've moved on that much. You know, you talk about women's health. So, yeah, I put a load of stuff out there in the first episode. And then, you know, since we've had Catherine Ryan on about being unlikable, we had these two amazing women last week.

Yes, the most recent one. Yeah, they were a... Talk about them and how, didn't you meet one of, did you meet one of them on a... So, no, no, I did. So they, I read about their story. It was on social media and then I got them to come on the Today program, which was quite an overwhelming thing. That basically one of them, when she was 15, Georgia, she was diagnosed with something called. M-K-R-H, you'll forgive me if I don't know the full name.

It's quite a complicated one. And it's one in five thousand women have it, I believe, where you're born without a womb. And she had always wanted children. And she wanted to be a midwife. And to her credit, she continued with her dream of being a midwife, had a lot of therapy, but her friend, her best friend, Daisy, Hope,

very well-named, said to her, I'll have your baby. And she was like, but this was a promise when they were teenagers, right? And then Daisy had never been interested in having her own children. She then did meet someone. But on her first date,

it said, oh, by the way, I'm going to carry for my friend because she has ovaries. So she was able to have her own biological children should someone else surrogate. And this man she met was like, okay. Anyway, they go on to have their own child.

She said it on her first date with her partner. She was like, by the way, I think because George's mom accidentally was in the date place or something like this, wasn't it? And so she was like, oh yeah, by the way, just to get this out of the way, I am going to carry my best friend's baby

when the time's right. Well, I remember. I sat in this room for this very intense interview and you know sometimes forget these different bits. And he was very cool with it, amazing. They went on to have their baby. They have their baby. And then she turned around to her friend and said, right, let's do it.

And the best thing in the whole story for me and I hear a lot of stories obviously every day and talk to people and it's a huge privilege. But was she said, I would rather we had one baby each than I went on to have a second and my best friend didn't have any. Which is just... That's kind of... more committed than relative.

It's divine. It's just a total love story and seeing them together and then I met the daughter, Otterley and she was only six weeks old and there was a very proud grandmother who was looking after while they did the broadcast. And yeah, it's just that, you know, I love finding these major stories which might not be the number one news story.

Although it went on the BBC website and within minutes it was the second most red thing. It was on vogue. Yeah, you know, it's one of those stories that people actually want to read. And I'm very interested in finding those. Do you have someone helping you find them or I feel like, are you kind of...

I'm very involved, but there's a team of us. It's a really great team. They're lovely, they're really experienced. And it's so nice to do something as well for me that isn't live. And there's some time and people can really settle in the room. And we've got, you know,

we've got some pretty hardcore things as well coming up. Do you like live radio? I do. Yeah. Is this exciting? Yes, and there's a dynamism. I also like being in touch with listeners, so I like seeing text messages come in,

I like seeing what people are thinking. What would you say was one of your most memorable best interviews? Oh gosh. I mean, I don't know, I was going to, like you've got the famous moment with Nigel Farage. Like, we're not mate. That was amazing. Yeah.

That was this year. I mean, you've had Farage, you've also had, why are you lying? Why are you lying? There was like, which one was that? I don't know. You had one. And it was like...

Well, I thought... It was somebody... They'd said a statement and you were like, how can you know that? Yes. When the report hasn't even come out, like, you're so sharp. Okay, so there's different types of interviews. So, I mean, there's the very human ones.

For instance, I did the first interview with Nazanine Sigari Ratcliffe. Yeah. When she'd been released from this terrible... That was that on Woman's Hour? It was on TV... It was on television and on Women's Hour. Yes. That was my most memorable one.

Yeah. It will live with me forever. And I had interviewed Richard, her husband for years, you know, trying to get her out. And, you know, I'd met Gabriella, her daughter, who she wasn't able to be with. And then to meet her, you know, it was just incredible. And for me, that's a story that is really important to get across, obviously, the human side of it. But the political side of Iran, of what it means, how the world works together, what's going on when people are being used as political pawns. And then, you know, there was a major moment in that story as well where she admitted that, or not admitted,

she shared that the British side had overseen her signing a forced confession as she left Iran, and her mum and dad are still in Iran. And that's an extraordinary insight for us as people, as citizens, as, you know, taxpayers to know what goes on when you get people out. And, you know, six foreign secretaries, I think it went through at the time. So that story through to the beginning of the year interviewed Caroline Darien, who is the daughter of Jezelle and Dominique Pell. Yeah, I heard that as well.

Who, you know, that was on television and also for the Today program. So I think it's quite interesting when you do longer things for radio because it's very intimate, as you know, in podcasts and audio. But, you know, she believes her father, it's the biggest rape trial in French history. She believes her father abused her. So, you know, and then also her mother's become this feminist icon, you know, this grandmother who's just said shame should change sides. So those sorts of interviews, you don't forget.

Because you're sitting in a room with someone who's been through things that, you know, we need to bear witness to, through to Kate Bush, you know, just having Kate Bush come on. Who, who having... Can I say a fun one? Yeah, of course you can. We know who we'd like to have on the podcast that we hope to achieve one day. Who would you love to interview? Oh, I mean, I have wanted to interview Monica Lewinsky for a very long time because...

I'm sure you know, I'm sure, you say I'm sure, you know, you want to find the right... You've got to find the right moment, you've got to find the right, but just because... I think her TED talk on shame was incredible. And I think the way women are portrayed and the way we hold ourselves and the way we view other women and all of that, she speaks to so many of those themes and issues that I've been very interested in throughout my career. But the person you were thinking of before, because I never like leaving something dangly. You have other types of interviews, which are my political interviews.

And there have been some moments which people remember quite clearly. You know, the Farage one this year. What was different, I suppose, was it's the first time I've actually interviewed him, I believe since he's become an MP. You obviously tried many times. But the one you were talking about was with Rory Stewart. Oh, yeah. Obviously, a big podcaster.

Yeah. And I just come back from maternity leave. And obviously, it's a weird job because you come back and you can't just like sneak in behind a desk in my job. You go out on a millions of people. You know, you've got it. You're back. There's no, there's no in between.

And, you know, after having our first child, it's a weird job because you can't actually, I always think this, you can't imagine doing it until you're in the studio. I don't know if it's like that with singing. I don't, you just sort of, then it happens. And you're like, oh, yeah, this is what I do. But were you scared about going back? I think I was just, I didn't know, I didn't know what it was to go back after an amazing amount of time away.

And also, baby brain is a real thing. Well, just like, you know, no sleep. I mean, it's similar to what I've inflicted upon myself in his job. You're still breastfeeding? No, I finished at six months and I went back at nine. And it was, that week was just crazy because I ended up interviewing, or maybe it was a few days after the first week, I ended up interviewing Theresa Theresa. May at the end of the week, if I remember

correctly, with her phone in about the Brexit withdrawal deal. And two days before, you remember all the Brexit stuff, a minister was put up to defend this deal she just put out this draft. And it only come out minutes earlier. No one had read it. And Rory Stewart, who was a minister at the time, came on her

and said something like 82% of the British public support this deal. And I said, well, how can they? No one's read it. And he went, I'm producing a figure to support what I believe. And I went, see your life. We could all do that. It was proper northern.

It was like, you're lying. You just shut your up. And he went, yes. I am and I'm sorry. And he said sorry. And we've talked to, he and I, we've been reunited once on this subject, actually, a panel in London,

a live event in front of an audience. And he said it was a big moment for him because he realised how far he'd gone in to sort of the tunnel of spin. Is that when he decided to, quit. No, I think there were quite a long time. There was quite a long time after us. But for me,

just I tell that story sometimes for women to hear. Yes, you can be knackard. Yes, you feel not quite like yourself. All those things. But I was like, although it was awful for him and it went on the late night US TV shows, fake news spreads to Britain, I was like, I'm back. Yeah. I'm in the room. I'm in my body. And I can still hear.

I remember going back to your mum's house with her mum and dad. Yeah. And they always said, I thought it was so sophisticated. When we went for tea, we had baked beans and omelet. Oh, nice. And I thought it was so exciting. I still love an omelet.

Yeah, I love an omelet. But I don't think my mum made many omelets. I think my dad used to. And I also used to think this was really delicious. The baked bean juice went on the omelet and it was very nice. Is that a tradition in your world? But your grandfather was a doctor. Yes.

Yes. Yeah. He was. And it's very weird to see you today. I was feeling quite emotional about it because my grandmother on the day we're talking died 25 years ago on this day. Was she a long life?

Well, it's just, it's nice to see someone though who met her. You know, actually, because I was... She was very, very attractive, very sophisticated, very, very, slim. Her hair was always beautifully quaffed. She was, yeah, there were a very good-looking couple, your grandparents. I have a very good-looking picture of them up in the house, a black and white one.

But she died when I was nearly six. So I didn't have very long with her. Yeah, she was very young. She was 60 or 61, I believe. Yeah. So, of cancer. So, but it's strange, you know, 25 years, like, to put that into, so it's very nice to see someone who hung out with her a bit.

So was your mum a good cook? Yes, so my mum did all the cooking and we had, you know, the, I was thinking about different food memories, as you often do on this lovely podcast. and the smell of chicken soup on a Friday is very much. And I went through a phase of doing it myself when I had one child. Jessie, you obviously have three. I'm not getting that. You've not had another one, have you?

No, no. Okay. So, and I have, I don't go on air on Fridays. I may sometimes do a quick call or something, but I typically don't work on Fridays because I've been able to organise it since I had children. And I had these dreams of always having chicken soup on the stove. And I did do it for a while.

And then since having a second child, I've just slightly fallen apart in terms of cooking and, you know, being on top of things as much. So I'd actually go and get chicken bones from the butcher. I'd do all of that. And I'll get back to it because it was a lovely thing because I loved growing up. I mean, we do, we're not very religious,

but we do like candles every Friday night. We get a chala from the local bakery, the plastic world. Where are you? Where the diaspora? Do you find a colour? There's two places I go. No, where. Blackbird does a fantastic.

I wonder if they do one. I've got one down the road in Queens Road. Order one, Jane's Road. Yes. That is a good... How are you not tell? Is it sweet? Is it good, sweet colour? I think there's an... I'm not going to name it.

There's another one that's not great. But if I'm desperate and I just want something to like... I get from Ocardo, but it's not like going up to Ronnie's in Golders Green. No. Although the bagel bake... Yeah. Brickster. No.

Britt Lane. Yeah. I actually even know him, you know, we know each other by name. He delivered, as in we text. I get loads of salt. be from him and he will bring bagels and bread as part of it. Well, listen, when he's in South, can he come to mine too? I think I'm on the edge.

I think I might be... Yeah, but I'm nearer to East London. Yeah, you are. Yeah, you will. I'll send you to... I'll send you the test. I'll send you the number. Bring me in to this combo. I'm very happy to. Great. So are you ready to eat some? Yes. Yes. I would love. Thank you, mum. Look, I'm not a vegetarian cook, but I love Obiegiene Parmesan. Okay. But then I've got worried because you talked about inflammation and I know. I know that obejean is not great.

I love... Oh no, I really like obergene, but maybe... Got some more water? Yeah, I'll have a lot more water. A baked thing or a hot thing, like this is perfect for me. Good. Mum, this is delicious. Good, darling.

We need to give a shout out to Alison Roman. It's in her new cookbook. Yeah, a little aubergine palm. She calls it. Palm. Yeah, it's delicious. You have both... I need to start cooking again.

Because I'm not the most natural, but I really love it, and I can follow a recipe. And I listen to you say, on one of the... I'm sure you've said it before, but on one of them recently that I listened to. You talked about a mob app, which I don't know. Brilliant. Do I need to do that? Yeah, it's just really good and easy and it's very accessible food. As in M-O-B?

Yeah. Okay, fine. So they kind of... I need some more ideas. They watch their... Go on their Instagram page because they've got really good inspe on there, but then the app is really good. But are you cooking a lot of the time? Yeah.

Yeah. Okay, because that's the other thing. I just need to actually have it as part of, like, an activity more. I'm often just throwing... Like good food, we eat really well now. We also now, I say we eat really well now, but we really do since I've learned a lot more about food and cut out a lot of ultra-process, have real bread, you know, just trying to educate myself in a way that I never really took food. I've always been a gourmand, like I love going out for a boozy lunch. I love being served, amazing food and going to amazing restaurants.

But in terms of what goes in, I've got a lot more educated. But what it means is you have to make things. It's like an ingredients house as opposed to open the cupboard. and there's something really easy. But I think, like, if you start using some of those apps, and Mobs's great for that, it's like, they've got really good things where you can do batch cooking,

so you could do three different things out of, like, a base, which is also quite good. So then you've got like three different ideas, and it can all be prepped. You don't have to cook every day. This has got chili in. She said to put it in, I'm not keen. I hope you're not offended by the chili.

Oh, I like it. Yeah. Are you okay with it? You must have got a bit. I can't taste the chili, really. Okay. So last up, you're going somewhere to a desert island

for a very, very long time. This is your last meal. What are you going to have? Start at Maine, Pud, drink of choice. I'm going to have snails to start. Oh, garlic snails with the best French baguette and salted butter. Oh, should we do that on Monday?

No, we won't. Well, you can do it. I'm not. We're going to Paris on Monday. It's my birthday present. Gorgeous. Who got you into snails? Well, effectively they're like garlic mushrooms. If you didn't know that they were snails.

Okay. You know, I love the little dish. Yeah, the six holes or the 12, if you're feeling greedy. I think the first time I went to Paris. I just thought, I love trying local food. I'm very adventurous. I'm not squeamish about different, you know, I'll eat nose to tail.

The St. John restaurant is a big thing for me. Awful, sweet breads, the whole thing. If you're going to eat an animal, I think you should eat all of it. I've plucked and disemboweled a duck. Oh, my God. Why? Because my friend killed it. Oh.

A very English friend who has, you know, and that sort of life. I did not grow up in the city, Manchester, basically, with any of those things. But actually, I found it a really, you know, clarifying experience. I feel in a previous life, I was Scottish or Texan. I love, you know, haggis. I love all that sort of, I love peaty whiskey. There's a lot I connect to with palate-wise in that part of the world.

What's your favourite whiskey? I like Talisca. I like a smoke, often quite a smoky. although we've got a nice Glenn liver at home at the moment. I'm convinced that's open. Because when I was pregnant the second time, it was the first time in my life had not been able to shake a cold.

So I can always, I don't touch, you know, apart from all the other lovely female illnesses ravaging my body, I don't tend to have days off. Yeah. In terms of when you've got a cold or a cough, being on air is not good. And I swear it's because I have most nights

a little dram of whiskey. But when you're pregnant, obviously, I know some people do have whatever, but I didn't. And I ended up. being, you know, hospitalized and on antibiotic for the first time. Because I have this cough cold.

You know when you cough? I don't know if you remember when you're pregnant. It's the most painful thing in your ribs. So, yeah, I like a little bit of whiskey every night. And probably Talisca's the one that comes to mind. So we've got the snails. Where are we going for the main? Well, I've realized it's quite buttery and garlic here's a theme.

I'm going lobster and a load of other seafood. I want to get, like, quite messy. Yeah. Prawns and everything with heads on. and then I'm going to chippy chips on the side. So what annoys me about... What chippy chips? So like from the chippy.

Okay, fine. Can I combine? Yeah. Okay. Definitely. I don't like the fish in fish and chip shops that much. It's fine. Oh, I do.

But for me, it's all about the chips. Have you had mottons? Yeah. Very nice. No, no, but it's just not my favourite. Like, it takes up space that... You were there for the chips. Like a good steak or a big bit of garlicky fish could do.

So I would have, it's a bit, whenever you get something as beautiful as lobster, you always get very thin frit. And they are not chips to me, especially as a northern. No, you're like a pop a chip. Yeah. So I would combine those two with a really good, beautifully done vets, you know, just something like amazing. I do love Asian food a lot. So I do think is it about dim sum and sushi and all of that, but I think it would be this. And then pudding, I don't know.

I've struggled with pudding because I'm quite a savoury person. Yeah, me too. So it could be, if I went savoury, it could be a Welsh rare bit. You know. Oh, yum. But I don't know if I'd have room. Yeah. Oh, I like that.

I don't know. There's no like pudding where I think there is one. Okay, go on. It's quite savoury. I like a Guinness cake. Oh, I love that. With a thick cream. It's quite easy, I think.

Is it? Yeah, maybe that's what you're going to have to do this weekend. Okay. There's not masses of Guinness in it. But it looks like Guinness because of the white top. Well, I only had my first Guinness a few weeks ago. I went to the Devonshire. Oh, it's.

I love it there. Which is fabulous. Did you eat there too? I'm going again. The lobstre. The pawns and the scallops there. The langastein were... The lobster we have there was amazing.

And the dripping on the potatoes, like the whole... The whole thing. I am like basically 65-year-old man from Scotland. It is like a proper chop house, isn't it? And drink of choice. Is it whisking? So whiskey if it was for a short, but I do... I do like a martini at the start.

I mean, it's quite a lethal. If you get a martini or wine and then finish with whiskey. at this state of life. Yeah. But yeah, if we were just ending and it was that drink, I would go for that. How do you take your martini?

I have it dry with an olive. I don't like lemon in it. Dry, and vodka. And when it's wet, that's when it has vermouth in it, right? Yes. I quite like a vermouth. I don't think, I'm that.

Yeah, I mean, where's the place that had the most incredible? The Dover. Have you sat at the bar at the Dover yet? I have been to the Dover and I haven't sat at the bar, but yeah. Yeah, that was lethal. Really?

Yeah. What, like all Vod? Yeah. Okay. So you like the Devonshire. You're going to go back. Are there any other spots that you, St John you've talked about? Yeah, I do like St John.

I mean, I think quite early on, my education in London, I moved here after university when I was 22. And my first job was at a trade title, a business magazine. And it was about, my beat was TV and radio, but it was on the commercial side. So I was in what felt like the last hurrah of Adla. going for lunches and sometimes the lunches would last until dinner and then go into dinner. So I had this incredible education not at my own expense. Perfect. Eating out.

Where I ate out. And I think I actually learnt the centre of London through restaurants. So some are not here anymore and some are not still going. But it was amazing just having that, you know, from, so I still, I would love going to the Woolsey, which is obviously a very grand dame one through to. there's a smaller place, Bruto in Farringdon, which is obviously so gorgeous. Through to, I remember when places like rocker opened

and, you know, the Rabata Grills started happening and there was kind of that whole scene and I loved all the... Did you go to Honey & Co? Yeah, I love Honey & Co. Yeah, and the shop is very nice as well. I love the shop. And Otolengi.

Yeah, Gord, Knopi, when that opened, was stunning. Still is. I mean, I don't get to do a sort of nine-hour lunch anymore and I'm not sure. I'm going out with someone in a few weeks who's from that era of my life and I now realise, I mean, his guy to be fair and he, you know, I don't know how old his kids were, but I now realise

he had kids when we were going out and having chats at the journoes. His wife must have been absolutely demented. I just was like, he still has kids. They're just 20 now and I now have kids and I'm like, am I going to be able to do like two hours? You know, you do like

a few bottles and the coolest thing which was all again through work we did one of the last tables of the old Savoy you know when businesses book out a space they get like a room and there was a you know I was at I was 24 and there was a 25 there was a glass of wine with each course

I didn't take in that not everyone was finishing each glass yeah when you finish what you've been given in Manchester yeah well to your point about wine it was the most delicious wine I've ever taken you know when someone's picked it for you then I'll cover that glass because I don't know anything I don't remember names

Oh my gosh. So we went from 6pm until 3am. Emma. Yeah. That's a sash. It was a sash. Did you stay the night at this boy? I considered whether we're even bothering to go home, you know, just go straight to the office.

And I'll do 3am offices in a different time frame. We've got the dessert now, mum. Tell Emma what we're eating. It's a white chocolate cheesecake. Fantastic. Not very much white chocolate, just a bit. But it's quite savoury. Yeah, I'm not a big cheque.

cheesecake person. It does have salt in Emma, so you'll be happy. Yeah. And please can you tell us about your brilliant colouring end books? Okay, over this beautiful cake. It feels apt because it's so much colour now on this table with fruit salad and this cake. So we were, we were walking around our local park for the 98th millionth time when I was on maternity leave with the pram and with our son. Trying to get the baby to sleep. Yeah, got it. Right. I then have to find cobbles and different textures. Do you remember any of that to try and get them? My children call on. Oh, yeah. Roll on smooth things. Yeah, no, of course.

That's why galleries are ahead. You're doing that, yeah. So I think I was off piece slightly, but I came back and we were near the clock at the top, near Brockwell Hall in the middle of Brockwell Park. And he asked us about it. And I honestly, obviously knew nothing about it. And I just thought, I'll just get him a book. You know, I don't want to do screens right now.

I'll just look later and there'll be something he can engage with. And then my husband was like, well, why don't we just take a picture of it? And then maybe like, I can do a coloring in thing with him or something. Anyway, he just transposed this photo. I wouldn't know how to do this. And he made it with outlines. And then we talked about it. He drew it or was it a bit of a story?

On the computer. Oh, wow. No, he just did it on this, I don't know, app or something. So your husband does all the illustrations. No, we have a team now who do it. But he played around. Yeah. Made a bit of a summer project with our son.

And we found that there were no coloring books of local neighborhoods and cities and then towns. There were a few here and there of the bigger places. but even Manchester, which was our first out of London one, didn't really have one. It was really strange. So we created colouring of streets, which is our family business. And my husband left his job.

He's had big corporate jobs for 20 years. He left his job and is doing it full time since the beginning of this year. Wow, Mazel to. Thank you. That's amazing. Yeah, it's been a, it's amazing. We've now made things like Buckingham Palace' first colouring book. Thank you.

This has been really hard to cut. It looks delicious, though. This is really nice. I didn't think I was going to like it, if I'm being honest. I'm not sure about the crumb. What's the top? It's white chocolate and the rose petals. Cheese.

Cheese. Sorry, yeah, of course. Cream cheese and cream. And cram fresh. Oh, okay, so that's the sourness. Okay. That's lovely. Do you like it?

Yeah, I really do. I always like a, you know, a sharp, like, sort of cake or something with a bit of sour cream on the side, and it's got that. And you've done a lovely fruit salad. It's mom is great. I never do a fruit salad because the kids like everything can stitch your parts. I haven't done it for ages and I just thought it's kind of nice to have in the fridge as well. Before we let you go, what would be your nostalgic taste that could transport you back somewhere?

Well it might be chicken suit. So my mother's kitchen pot, the whole shebang. Or the nostalgia bit I think just does trigger sort of Jewish memories. You know, it's kind of either salt beef bagels or lacquets, you know, from the local deli. I don't think we ever made them. I think my mum always bought them, isn't that? Sensible, I think. It's quite hard making lackers.

It takes over the kitchen. Do you remember we did it at once? Loyal Khana. I do love much prefer actually making, like having them made at home. But it is a whole, it's a whole shebang. We never did filter fish or chops and fried or any of that. You can't do that. That stinks.

I mean, it's for a week. And you have to wear a shower cat. Well, in fact, you just have to go and have a complete shower. You know, like, we say, we also used to say things. So my mother-in-law is one of the rare Jews under 100 years old who can speak fluent Yiddish, which is an extraordinary thing. It's so cool. And, you know, it's not, from what I can tell it, it's not really got conjoining words half the time.

It's just expressions with words linked. And she just regularly, Lenny, takes the Mickey out of some of the ways we used to say things in Manchester because they're not accurate. So I'm about to say another thing that I realized I've forgotten that I liked from my youth. I don't know where I'd get it now because I grew up in the really Jewish bit of Manchester

and now don't live in a Jewish bit of London with lots of kosher places or whatever. But crane. Hmm. Hrain. Am I saying it right? Is that right? Is my mother-in-law going to tell me?

Of course it is. It is. You can get it in Sainsbury's in the Polish section. Okay, so Hrain is what? Because it was quite hot. Be true. It's beetroot and the horse radish. I love horseradish.

So like when everybody started having sushi with wasabi, I'm in. But also it's perfect with cold fried fit. I like cold fried fish. As in the. So I would have, so I like place. We always used to have that to break the fast. So we'd have place that was fried with matsamil and egg. But I like it cold with crane.

Interesting. Well, that's quite sushi-esque. Yeah. But it's cooked fish. Yes. No, but I love that combo. Chopped and fried. I mean, if I ever do make it, which I don't know.

I don't think they're last time. As in fish balls when you say chopped and frugged. I love fish balls. Yeah, but you get them from Freeds, the ones on. And they're not the same because they're little hard things. My mother used to make them. Every Thursday we had chopped and fried. And we have Gifilter.

My dad loved it. Do you like Gifilter? I love it. With a carrot and an onion on top. Yeah, the carrot and onion. And the jelly around the edge. Yeah. What was that?

Was that ginger? Stem ginger. Whoa. Do you like it? Oh, blown. Never had that. Yeah. It's nice in it, isn't it?

It's a shock. I'm shook. It's like a lem sip in a fruit salad. Oh, my gosh. No, it was in like a healing flavor. Yeah. It's quite a nice little little jar of stem ginger. It's like a pickled.

No, they're like little balls. And you just, yeah, and they're in like syrup. And I just put, chop it up really small. Usually I put light cheese in as well, but I was just rushed at the end. Yeah. That's what we used to call. Like she's is quite 80s. Yeah.

I don't know anyone. When was the last time you had an... Or a cum quat. I love cum quat. Have you had a cum quat lately? No, I haven't. They always used to have them at poshber mitzvah in the fruit salad. No, because when my husband, South London Jew,

entered the Manchester Jewish world, he had a field day with the language, with the vibe, the whole scene. So people would have fruit platters, And they'd be like, did she have the silver package or the platinum? And you could tell which they'd had by how large the fruit boat was that would come out. And Jeremy would be like, I think she's had platinum. Very nice, very nice. Just using this whole new voice.

The first thing, my mother would say to me, what a table. And it always, every Jewish function had exactly the same food. Was it? Everything was always the same. How sweet that they would appreciate that it was such a table. and it wasn't like nobody was trying to remember. Everybody would have a look as well. I don't know what to show you go to,

but when we have Kiddish after Shulb, it's gone in about three seconds. I mean, everyone's putting extra things on their plates. It's terrible. Kiddish is a game of sort of, you know, the food after the service is a game of ducking. Because as people talk, they spray and they come very close to you. Yes.

So that's a whole other. And a fish ball getting sprayed on your face. And a fish ball in your face is not for the faint, And, you know, I'm like low down with kids some of the time, then standing back up, you get really, like, unlucky. Oh, mate, that is so disgusting. Emma Barnett, thank you so much for coming over. This has been gorgeous. Great.

Covered everything. 11 a.m. again, please. Yeah, absolutely. Now I know you like to go to bed early as well. But also, I'll make your chicken soup. Thank you. I do it a lot, so I'll bring you so. Not chopped and fried.

No. You can come and help me. I'll do it with the shower. Yeah. So brilliant. What a gorgeous woman. Love her. You're going to be teaching her chicken soup soon?

Yeah, absolutely. Her new podcast, Ready to Talk, is on BBC Sounds and on all other podcasting platforms. And it's just brilliant. She's such a great... Didn't she look glamorous for someone who've been up since 321? She's always, always glamorous, isn't she? Very glamorous.

Very cool boots. Yeah. And now she's going back into town. She didn't seem to mind. No, she's very good. Food was really delicious. Was it? It was a very different kind of palm.

It was kind of chunkier, wasn't it? What do you mean? I quite liked it. What else did it have in it? Had anchovies. Yeah. Capers. Yeah.

Yum. Panko bread crumbs. Likes that. On layers. Oh. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

It makes it less soggy. My good canned tomatoes. Your good canned tomatoes. And I baked the obogem beforehand. It was really tasty. Good. was it faffy? Yeah.

Oh. It was a good hour job. Okay. Well, I appreciate it. Yeah. Thanks, Mom. And the cheesecake, I'm the least cheesecake person. Me too.

I actually thought that was really nice. The little bits of white chocolate in it. Yeah. Very nice. I think the crust was too thick for me. I liked that. I thought it was great. Ginger nuts.

Thank you to everyone for listening and watching and we'll see you next week.