Table Manners with Jessie and Lennie Ware - Harlan Coban

Episode Date: December 17, 2025

We have the thriller King joining us this week, international bestseller, Harlan Coben! You’ll find all his books in stores worldwide, and now his TV series are taking the world by storm on Netflix. His latest series 'Run Away’ also stars multiple previous guests of the podcast (James Nesbitt, Ruth Jones & Minnie Driver), and it’s gripping from start to the end! Mum was in love with Harlan from the moment he walked through the door. We discussed his writing process, his love of Bruce Springsteen, growing up in New Jersey and his mum being a terrible cook, writing ‘Gone Before Goodbye’ with Reese Witherspoon, his iconic Thanksgiving bagel party, and how his lead character Myron Bolitar is very much based on himself! Harlan’s new series ‘Run Away’ is released globally on Netflix on 1st January - don’t miss it! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello and welcome to Table Manners. I'm Jessie Ware, and it is a raining evening. Hi, Mum, how are you? I know, me too. Yeah. But we're really excited about this guest. Couldn't be more. We have a legendary writer that you introduced me to.

Devald his books. I mean, we've been reading him for decades. Yes. extraordinary Harlan Coben. I think anyone that's read the Harlan Coban novel, you go back for me.

He's a great writer. And if you don't know Harlan Coben's literature, you'll probably know his Netflix shows. Missing. Missing. The new one that we're going to talk about called Run Away.

He's done Lazarus, that's on Amazon Prime. With Bill Knight. Bill Knight. He also has written a book with Reese Witherspoon. I think we touched on Gone before goodbye.

I've just, I started it. It's good. Maggie, the Rongan doctor. Really excited to have him. So we had such a great time with John Gregory Smith. And he gave us his cookbook. So you've cooked one of his recipe?

I've done one of his because he does make life really easy. And so I've done his slow-cooked coconut beef shin curry. And you kind of whizz up a pace. That's the hardest thing that you do. It's got lemon grass in it. It's got garlic, ginger, chili. coconut milk, cardam pods, star anise, and so you just put it in the oven for four hours and just let it all kind of melt. So we're having that with some rice and then I've done quite a pathetic

like carrot ribboned salad with a bit of mint and coriander and bit of rice wine vinegar and sesame oil and salt and pepper. And then for pudding, I have cheated. We had a lovely gathering here on Sunday where we both cook for a lot of people and we got kindly given from our friend an Otolengi pecan pie because it was great so this is what Harlan Coben's getting is it FHB what's that family hold back you're going to have to have a slither okay because Sam hasn't held back and he's also taken the star anise mascaponi and I'm fuming luckily I have some cream but I'm not happy um so yeah that's what harland Coben's getting I think that's okay isn't it Sam is like a kind of thing.

He's annoying, he's inconvenient. He's just annoying. And then he goes to the farmer's market because he wants to like, you know, not be on Amazon and all of that, which we totally respect. But then I've got a massive celery in my fridge that he doesn't know what to do with.

Because it's too big. He doesn't know what to do with it. So I'm like, right, okay. Salary soup. We're all having celery soup or celery juice tomorrow. But yeah, anyway. Harlan Coben coming up on table. Harlan Coben.

Yes. You're here. I am. I'm thrilled to be here. And you're very tall. I know I'm taller than I look in the book jackets. You are? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

How tall are you? Six-four. I don't know what that is in years. That's a good high. Did you ever play basketball when you were younger? Of course he did. Jesse, Myron. Oh, thank you.

Do you want to just go straight into it? I've got to. I feel I'm meeting Myron Bolito. Oh, that's so sweet. Aren't that, aren't you kind? Is he modelled on you? He is with wishfulfilment. Writers hate to admit that. You know, they know, oh no, it's complete fiction. But he's me with wishfulfillment.

You know, I played basketball. He was better. He's funny or he's smarter. Did you have an injury? No, I never, I wasn't good enough. And you weren't a PI after? No, I wasn't a private eye. No, I wanted to making them up instead. Yeah, well done.

Thank you. But I'm in love with him. Oh, thank you. I'm kind of in love with you. That's great. I just want to put that out there. I don't want to say anything, but yes, I'm Myron Bolotard. Now that I hear this.

This is going to be a bit like misery in a minute. She's going to be healthy baits you and you're going to have a new story to write. Break your legs and you have to stay here forever. I love to. We're most very big fans because we've read so many of your books. Oh, that's so flattering. How nice. Thank you.

Why isn't he a TV series yet? We're working on it actually over at Netflix. Yeah, it's in the works. Yeah, it's in the works. You know, he's harder for me to let go of than the stand-alones. Interesting. If you don't like, which you did love,

Michelle Kagan and Fulmey once, it's one book. You know, if you don't love Jamie Nesbid coming out in runway, one book, one character, I've only written them once. But Myron is my heart, and I'm very nervous about that series. Okay, but so who, are you allowed to say who would be your dream, Myron, to play?

That's the problem. Well, let's do, look like, let's do. Oh, I can you? Okay, please, help me. It depends on we're starting him and how old he is when we start. That's one of the questions, isn't it? Yeah, I mean, he could be anywhere.

The series starts him around 28 to 30. He's now 50s. Yeah. I've aged him, not in real time, he's aged slower than I have. Yeah, of course, obviously. So do you feel like you are, you put yourself in a character every time? Is there a bit of you in every character? Even the bad guys, even the villains.

I mean, there's always a little, there has to be a little piece of you. I mean, writing is about empathy and getting in other people's heads. So you have to, I have to, you know, I have to make the villain as understandable. in my own head as the heroes. It's part of what you do. It's not sympathy, which is something different. It's empathy, which is understanding what that person thinks or feels.

That was deep. Give me a moment. Okay, I like it. So let's talk about your new Netflix show, which is coming out on the 1st of January. So everyone can binge it. Yes. Run away. It's like, it's, are you Jimmy Nesbitt's character in that?

No. Well, it's hard to think of it now as Jimmy Nesbitt, isn't it? But yes, we call it, you know, it's January 1, so instead of Netflix and chill, it's hangover and chill, I guess. And stress out, no. Just sit there and... I don't think it's... Well, it's chilling.

It's chilling. I mean, so, yeah, it's really exciting. We've seen three episodes. Have you? Yeah. Oh, thank you. You ready for more? Yeah, I just demanded to get the rest of them.

I just don't, you're so prolific. Oh, thank you. But, like, I just want to understand how your brain works, because how do you manage? to do so many twists and turns. Are you pretty like, I want to know a day in the life of Harlan Coburn, like, is it full of drama and jeopardy? I mean, yeah, but I'm not like,

a song is three and a half minutes, maybe. Yes, but still. And it's about one thing. I don't like have about five different subplots going at the same time. This one especially, because we have, yeah, as you know, right, we had not just James Nesbitt, but Ruth Jones. She's the private investigator. She's so, she's fantastic.

Isn't she a wonderful woman? Well, James Nesbitt told me he was been on the podcast. Yeah, he has. I was with him today. I know Ruth, Ruth. And then, well, we also have, we've had many. We've had all of them. And, yeah, so it's such an honor and a thrill to be working.

And they all have, you know, they're all great. I can't wait to people to see Ruth in this because it's such a different role for it. She has no longer. She has not. Miss Marple, isn't she in it? Yeah, she is. But she's understated, but very clever. Yeah.

Yeah. That's great. That's the clever thing about it. Oh, wait to see what happens. Nurse's stories. Oh, I can't wait for you to see it. I can't wait. You can call me.

You're going to call me when you see it. Okay. There's eight altogether. Oh, there's eight. We've got another five jazz. Right. So that'll keep me going. Good.

Do you, I mean, okay, we're going to talk about food in a bit. But like, is that, like, how long, how long does a book, which is the quickest book that you've ever written? It usually take me about nine months. I compare it to childbirth. Yeah. The best part is the idea. Yeah. Yeah.

like we get it. Chris Lenny, straight away. But, and some days you feel great, and some days you feel like there's a dumb truck parked on your bladder. And at the end, you just want the darn thing out. You know, at the end, it's like, you know, let's finish it out, you know, get this thing out. Do you write at home, or do you have a studio where you go to to write?

You know, most writers have like an office or a special spot. I can write any place, and I use up places. I do whatever's working. So if, like, a certain coffee shop is working, whatever, I will be there, until it stops working and then I'll change. At one time, in fact, when I wrote The Stranger, one day I took for the very first time those rideshare, like Uber's first were coming into, so I took one into New York,

and I felt guilty about spending the money. You know, you're justifying in your head, well, by the time I pay for parking, by the time I do this. And so I sat in the back with my notepad, and I started to write, and I wrote really well. So for three weeks, I took Uber's everywhere, and I finished a stranger in the back of an Uber. You're obsessive.

Yeah, I'm weird. Yeah, that way. Do you write in a book or you're typing it? Both. I like to, I like my first draft, 10 pages or so at a time, to be handwritten because there's something freeing and childlike about writing with your hand still. Do you use pencil or pen? Pen mostly, but I carry with me a pencil, a pen, like a magic marker.

Like I carry everything with me at all times. And do you write in a Moleskine book or just an A4 yellow pad? Oh, I love these questions, but I have both. In my, I, I, I, I don't have no excuse. I can't say, you know, I don't have exactly what I want. So I have a yellow legal pad. I have a nicer kind of a notebook. And I carry them with me in my backpack almost all the time.

I don't know, but don't you feel, I've tried writing in books. And I think it's so romantic when I'm writing songs and like, you know, I'll get my mullskin. And then if I haven't, if it's not good enough, then I feel like I've spoiled the book. Do you never feel that? No, because I'm pretty good. Yeah, yeah, he might want some wine. Are you ready for some wine? Sure, I might do wine.

But I don't know if you have this, you know, or not. But I've also, one of the things I love about when you're doing it with your hand is you can also cross out and still see. You delete, it's kind of gone forever. I draw arrows. I draw lines. And now the other thing, this is very important if you're a little writing advice if you want to try it. Again, as you know, you ask 10 writers how they do it.

You get 11 different answers, right? but if I write by hand and then I put it in the computer now my first draft is actually my second draft right so I've already cut down on one draft so at a time because that's how I do it I write 10 15 pages then I said oh enough of that I'm going to put it into the computer and so ready I've already done a second draft before I've even done a first draft that makes sense what comes first the plot or the characters

you know it's a chicken and egg question but I think you know most writers will answer character, but the real answer, they're lying. The real answer is plot. If you just invent a character, it's not going to go any place unless you have an idea, unless the book's kind of boring. But character is more important than plot, but you have to think plot. You were asking about runaway before, the one that's coming out January 1st. So the idea came to me, two different ways. This is what I mean by anything can stimulate an idea. But I, my teenage daughter, who now actually writes on the show, she wrote two of the episodes, Charlotte, I found some, after a party, I found some cannabis paraphernalia in her room.

So she's Paige. So, well, actually, I do more cannabis than she has lately, but that's another story. We'll talk about another time or later on. But my mind spirals. Well, what if? What if my daughter was on drugs? And I couldn't think of how to start the book. I have an apartment near Central Park, and I'm sitting in a bench in Central Park in

strawberry fields. And I'm thinking, how do I start this book? And all of a sudden, a busker starts playing music. And I look up and I think, wow, what if I'm the father and I look up and that busker, the person playing the music was my daughter who's been missing for six months. Wow, what would I do? What a cool way to start a TV show or a book. And as you guys know, that's what happens to James Nesbitt in the very first scene. His daughter's been on drugs for six months. He goes to the park. He sits on that bench and he sees her. And she's singing. And she's singing an elbow song. Isn't that great?

Yeah, and Guy Garvey has also been on the podcast, and I text him as soon as I was watching and I was like, oh my God, they're using your song and it sounds really good. And I love it, after she sings it, they actually play the real song if she's running your way. It was brilliant. Yeah, I love the way to film that scene. So you say you write anywhere and whatever's working. Yes. How inconvenient is that for your wife and your family?

They're used to me being like a little rude. Okay. You know, I just sort of like, whoa, well, guys, quiet for a second. And I just start, it's just the way my mind works. So I'm always thinking, life to me is a writer's prompt, a what if, something that goes on. I ask what if all of the time. But, you know, I'm also home all the time when we were raising the kids. I was actually the one more home.

My wife's a pediatrician. So she had an actual real job. And I stayed home and was that an actual stay at home, Dad. You know, there's a lot of men that go, oh, no, I do more responsibility. You're 50-50. And when you started asking, let's face it, the wife still does. does more, much more. But in our case, we really were pretty close to, no, it's true.

And I got to play, you know, the other funny thing is you got to play, like, sort of the male equivalent of dumb blonde when you're the only father staying at home. So, like, when my kids were forget their lunch or something like that, and I would go with ladies in the office at school would be, oh, that's so sweet, Mr. Colby, you're trying. A mother does the same thing. They're calling, like, the police on them, you know, like, how could you be such a negligent mother? But it was cute.

I'm like, you know me, I'm a forgetful, dumb man. I'm sorry. I'm trying my best. So you get away with that kind of thing. It's funny, isn't it? Because Minnie drivers, isn't she a paediatrician in that? Okay. Interesting.

I'm interested to see what happens to Minnie. Oh, yes. Because I feel like we, there's yet, there's more. Okay. Oh, yeah. There's a lot more, it's a banana pants. It's a lot of stuff. And also, gone before goodbye.

Yes. She's a doctor. Maggie is a doctor. Well, she's struck off. Oh, we've had Reese with a spoon. Oh, I know. She was just on. Yeah, I know.

Reese was just on. Right before we came back right after that. Yeah. I'm interested by how, because I know that Reese had the plot or an idea. No, she had the, and the character, she had the idea of making it a doctor. Okay. As she probably, I think, told you maybe on her podcast. Her parents were both in the medical field.

Her father was an army surgeon and her mom, an army nurse, a military nurse. So that's where she came up. She had the idea of her being a doctor. So she says, look, I've got this character, I've got this idea. I mean, you're either going to accept that and be like, I can work with this. This is interesting. Was it easy to then enter into that story when somebody else has kind of given you a character idea? Was it a very different experience?

It was very strange. All the way through, it was sort of strange because, you know, I know Reese, and this sounds like the most immodest. We met a number of years ago at a conference, and we were both. kind of fan-boying, fan-girling over each other, which was really sweet. And we keep in touch. This is the most immodest sounding story in the world, but Reese called me on the phone and said, I'm going to be in New York. I have this idea I want to kind of talk to you about us doing together. And this sounds, I was very hesitant. I'm not that guy. I don't, I collaborate on TV shows. I don't collaborate on novels. I've never done it before. I didn't really have an interest in doing it.

It's one, one is a collaborative process. One is a solo process. So it's kind of like, How do I tell Reese, I don't really want to, you know, it's not for me. So Reese came to my apartment in New York, and she started pitching me the idea, and I'm like, oh, dang, that's good. We could do something with that. And I grabbed my yellow legal pad out, and I said, you know what else we could do? We could do that. And she's like, we can do this. We went back and forth for three hours.

And at the end, Reese looks at me, goes, so are you going to do it? And I'm like, yeah, let's do it. And we had such fun. She's such a delight. She's so smart. she knows story as well as anybody I've ever met she knows how to handle. You could see why she's a boss right even when you sat with her

she just knows how to handle people yeah she's like the best life coach she's inspiring she really is yes how old were you when you wrote your first novel wrote or published I mean I started to I mean my first published novel was accepted when I was 26 so and I started my first I had three I think failed ones or what I shouldn't say failed ones because they're not failures

actually the best way to learn to write a novel is to write a novel obviously yeah well people don't really know that did you do english at university I didn't it was I was a political science major which is a euphemism for I have no idea what I'm going to do with the rest of my life which university did you go to Emmerst college in Massachusetts oh wow so is that far did you grew up in New Jersey yes um Jewish family Yes. Yeah. Friday night dinners? Well, no.

This is, it's kind of funny because I know we'll be talking quite a bit about food. My mother was a very modern woman. She was an early feminist. She marched with Gloria Stein and all that. And let me also preface this by saying, a fantastic and wonderful mother. Both of my parents died too young. A wonderful woman, but the world's worst cook and hated cooking and made no bones about her. I think Myron's mother is a bad cook.

Yes. Not to get too heavy, but so I lost my father. parents at a fairly young age and Myron and Myron's parents are my parents. Yeah, I thought that. Yes. And if they had survived, this is what I imagine my relationship would be with them. Yeah. So I live vicariously not to get too, and I get too melodramatic during those scenes when I write them. They're a little bit corny, but. They're not. Oh, thank you. I love them. Thank you. So that's, that's my parents. Because anyone who's had a Jewish mother or a Jewish mother, yeah, you feel that. Oh, thank you. Yeah. Although I think my mom was a better cook than your mom.

No, my mother was a terrible cook. My grandmother was a terrible cook. We came from a long line. In fact, before I came here, I asked my brothers, I go, did mom make anything that was good? And they were like, no. Our favorite dinner was when dad made scrambled eggs. That's how bad of a cook. She made this meatloaf with, like, store-bought, like, tomato sauce and ragu, where she

just, like, it was, like, the worst quality meat and just sort of poured that on. And so we have nightmares, basically, about the food that she actually cooked. She was busy fighting the sister. Well, that's part of it. I mean, I grew up, you love this. I grew up, this is in the 70s, okay? I had a, we had a bumper sticker and t-shirts that said, my favorite one was, women who seek to be equal to men lack ambition.

Oh. This is what I grew up with. But what's your heritage? So, Holland, Coe. Coben was Cohen. Cohen. Cohen. Before my father, my father changed, because my mother was like, there's too many Cohen's where we were.

And so he changed to code. Are you Polish? Mostly we are, well, my grandfather was born in Jerusalem and his, we go date at least to the 1800s in Jerusalem. He left in the 18, 1920. And the rest is basically if you watch the mood, if you watch the filer on the roof, that's my upbringing. Okay, the Pail settlement.

Yeah, shuttles, yeah. And in fact, my grandparents, my grandmother on my father's side, never spoke English. She only spoke Yiddish. And when she did see filler on the roof not long before she died, my father told me that she ran out of the theater kind of crying because it was like her life story. She felt that she really was relating to it. So three of the grandparents are probably that.

And then the one came out of Jerusalem. What's your favorite Yiddish word? Do you use it? I can't. No, I don't really use them too much unless I'm... But my favorite Yiddish expression, which I say in English, because I use it in almost every book, because I think it's genius.

It's four words. Man plans, God laughs. Man plans, God laughs. And always a favor. So, didn't come from great chefs. Are you a good chef? No. I'm a great eater. But I'm not. I'm not. And, you know, I actually find it, like, funny because growing up, no men cooked back in those days, except the great chefs. It was a very sort of sexist thing when you think about it, right? But nowadays, like, all my friends think they're great cooks. and they're not. Like all the men, like, because they want to seem like they're in touch with this sort of a thing.

They kind of get into it. And it's almost like they, like, instead of sports, they get into that. So they invite you around and they're washing the lobster off in the sink. Yes, it's performative. You know what I mean? It feels very perform. A man with a barbecue is insufferable. I hate to say it.

And I don't want to sound mean, but I think a lot of male cooking is performative. Oh. It's always very flamboyant. and it's always oh let me do this and I'll just they don't follow recipes they think they can jug a bit of this and a glug of that and yeah yeah I don't want to goof on on men's but like I see the same thing with like it's like the Saturday dad in the park and he's talking really loudly to his kids so everybody knows he's being he's the dad you know that dad that you always see in the park and he's like he's like you know oh I let my wife rest today for 14 minutes while I took you out like it's a big deal

He wants everybody to notice it and get applause for it. Your mom did a really good job on you being a feminist. You're like, yeah, a real feminist, yeah. So you live in New York now. Yes, New Jersey and New York. Oh, you have that two places? Yes, well, New Jersey, people don't realize, like the suburbs of New Jersey are literally 30 minutes from New York City.

My niece used to live in Cliffside Park. Oh, yeah, it's not too far from where I am. And you go across on the boat. I think I've sung in Hoboken. Oh, yes, Hoboken. Yeah, which is really nice. Yeah, Hoboken's cool. So what is the best thing about New Jersey?

You know, it's New Jersey, I remember an induction into the New Jersey Hall of Fame, and Bruce Springsteen was talking about Danny DeVito, the actor. And he was describing why Danny DeVito was like New Jersey. And he's like, Danny's tough, New Jersey's tough. Danny's small, New Jersey's small. Danny's dense, New Jersey's dense. We have like a little bit of an edge to us. We are the, I call it the S's S's Sopranos.

Springsteen and Sinatra. Yeah, they're all from New Jersey. That's big. And they're all like, we're kind of, half of us is a suburb of New York, half this is a suburb from Philly, and we have a little chip on our shoulders because people don't, you know, think we're our own identity. And it's a lot of, but it's also a lot of suburbs.

A lot of what I've written about, Myron lives in Livingston, New Jersey. And so that kind of suburban life where you kind of go out and you want the picket fence and you want the two-car garage and you want to raise 2.7 kids and there's a barbecue in the backyard and there's a basketball court in the driveway and it's corny and yet it's the American dream and beautiful. And both of those things really appeal to me as a writer. I love that picture that's painted of that. Totally. Yeah. I think it's, I have a romantic and skewed version of it.

Do you have to love Springsteen if you're from New Jersey? It's not a state law, but maybe it should be. Right. Okay. I do. I certainly, I love, I love Springsteen. I probably seen him. I just saw the new one. We saw it. We saw it. We saw it. Oh, really. That's great. You saw Jeremy, right. Did you ever go to any of those concerts that Springsteen used to do in like the local bars? Like, because I feel like, well, you're younger. I've been, I'm not, no, I'm not, but I've probably been, I'm not one of those guys who counts, but I was realizing lately, I've probably been to a hundred Springsteen shows. Because for a while also, It was really difficult to get tickets at one point when he came back. And I was friends with a couple of guys in the band so I could get a certain amount of seats each night, but I had to go. They wouldn't just let me find for somebody else.

So, like, you did a 10-night stand once at Madison Square Garden, I think 2000, and I went all 10 nights. Oh, my God. Fantastic. 10 nights. You know all the words for all the song? Yeah, I think so. Pretty much. Pretty much.

Okay, which is your karaoke springsteen song if you had to? Um, probably Jungleland or, uh, still, still born to run is still a, a favorite that, did you like Nebraska? I did, but I, you know, it's not my, to be honest, it's not my favorite of Bruce's albums, even though I, you know, it's sort of like, again, this feels performing it when people say, oh, I listen to Nebraska. I wouldn't, you know, I'm not into born the USA or born to run. I'm, you know, I'm into Nebraska. I get it. And there's some great songs on Nebraska. In Atlantic City is one of my favorite songs of all time.

But no, it's not my favorite. I'm going to sort out the dinner. Yeah, good. But whilst I sort it out, I'm going to carry on talking. You're going to carry an asking about food. Oh, food? I can't talk about anything else. I was going to cast the whole series of the Myron Bolotard series.

I do need your mother's help with this, just so you know. Let's not pick on money, don't you? But I was also thinking we have a lot in common because you work with your daughter. Yes. Which is what I do. Oh, do you? No, I'm kidding. How do you find that?

Much better than I thought. It wasn't my idea to do it in the first place. I work with a woman named Nicholas Schindler from Key Street Productions. She's probably your best TV producer. To give you an idea of some of the shows that Nicola has created, Happy Valley, Les Tangu in Halifax, queer as folk. Most of Sally's early shows and Russell Davies shows, Nicholas Schindler is one of the producers on. So she works with us three.

So she's fantastic to work with. And she had recognized my daughter's talent. And I just didn't think it would be smart to be having her. And she's like, no, we need this voice. We need her. And so Nicola brought her in to write on our shows. And then, I'm bragging about my own daughter, but Charlotte then had her own show called Dead Hot,

which was on Amazon Prime here in the UK and still is. And now she's hard to get in difficult. Oh, my gosh. So, you know, we don't, we keep the distance. Yes. Now, after I taught us, right? This is what we do, right? We raise these kids.

You raise these children and they overtake you. That's right. Let's pitch about having our children here overtake us. We did do a show in America called, which is Amazon Prime. You know, they would stick my name in front of it, which is a little embarrassing. But the name of the show is Harlan Cobin's Shelter. And Charlotte wrote most of that. Oh, yeah, that was young people.

Young adult show. Yeah, that's a young adult show. Yeah. So that was most, that was Charlotte. And we worked, because it was in New Jersey, we were on set together every day. And we get along great, but there is that parent dynamic. Like if I sort of snap at her a little bit, she gets, you know, you can't talk to me that way, Dad. I'm like, but you're the only one who talks to me like that, Charlotte, because she's the only one who will clap back right at me.

So, you know, how many children do you have? I have four. Oh, they're all talented, right? Yes, they're all very talented, but in different ways. So Charlotte is a writer. Ben, my number two, he actually runs the production end of my business. My third is a Will, this is really braggy. He's a NASA, NASA Flight Control.

He actually is a rocket scientist. Oh, my God. He's 26 years old or 27 years old. He'll be involved in a rocket scientist. He literally is. That's amazing. I know. And my fourth is getting her master's degree in genetics.

So the last two are science he took after my wife, probably the pediatrician. Is she still working, your wife? She, well, yes, she's doing, she was for a while. She just finished doing a job. She was the dean of admissions for Columbia University's medical school. Wow. And she just left that and is looking to see what medical things she's going to do next. But she was, yeah, it was a big job having to pick who goes.

So when you're converting a book into a screenplay, are you very involved? Yes. Yeah. We have this team. I mentioned Nicholas Schindler from Street. Danny Brocklehurst, who writes the first couple and the last couple on all the shows. And a man named Richard Fee. We call ourselves the Core Four.

This is our, I think our eighth show we've done together. The Five, Safe, The Stranger, Stay Close, Missing You, Fool Me Once. Lazarus and now this one runaway. Yeah, because we just, I just watched the first episode of Lazarus because we'd have Bill Nyey on and I was interested in Sam Clapping, isn't it? Yes, yeah, he's very good. Yeah, isn't Bill a delight? The most delight in that.

Oh my goodness. He is, I usually have dinner with him when I'm in London. Well, you're lucky because he usually looks alone. I know, it's just a two. And when I invite somebody else along, he's not really. that happy. He likes it just the two of us. And he always arrives early with a book. He's always there first with a book. And, you know, Bill Nye, Bill Nye was the only time I think when I was actually writing something, when I wrote Lazarus, I pictured Bill Nye from day one. If I could get Bill Nye

from day one. And the fact that when we asked him, he immediately said yes and had read some of the stuff. And he was just, and you say, oh, you know, don't meet your heroes, but Bill was one were, he actually exceeded my expectations. He's a delight, isn't he? Besides supernatural charisma, he also has a genuine openness and vulnerability that's, you know, it's ridiculously charming to have a friend. He's very self-effacing, isn't he? But very elegant.

This looks fantastic. Well, I've never done this recipe, so actually we'll find out. This looks fantastic. So, yeah, this is like a tray bake of sorts. I'm quite into tray bake. because I basically, I was at a fashion awards last night and I wanted to make something gorgeous, so it's just been sitting in the other for ages.

It's a beef shin, coconut curry. I hope you like it. Oh, it's wonderful. Oh, good. Let me get some of it. Oh, it's really wonderful. It's very fragrant, isn't it? Yes, that's exactly.

you're going to a desert island where you're not going to be able to have your favorite food I'm not going to be able to have your favorite food no this is the last supper before you're banished to a desert island without your typewriter or out your computer no he's allowed okay maybe you can have a notebook but what are you going to eat and drink starter main dessert and drink of choice

wow okay um I'm probably I'll be going to, if I'm going to have to take that many, I'm probably going to mix and match. Fine. So, I love foie gras. It sounds I'm going to go right early rich, but one of those sort of appetizer of foie gras from certain Parisian restaurants that I just, I know that sounds so spoiled, doesn't it? But you spend a lot of time in Paris, don't you? Oh, tell us where to go on Monday.

We're going, I'm taking mom for her birthday. Oh, wow. All right, we'll find places to go. How nice you guys are going to Paris Just for the day No it's my present That's so sweet So foie gras in Paris

Where are you going for it? That's a good question You know I haven't been there in a while So I don't know which restaurants are still around And I'm drawing a blank at the ones I'm also Here's the thing I don't I'm not one of those Who has tremendous loyalty to particular restaurants I like to try different ones all the time

So one time when I was in France I was going to a book festival in a town called Briefe which is known for its cuisine way out about three or four hours I think it took us to get there and one of the local papers that asked me about food and I mentioned how much I love foie gras so we get there and literally every restaurant

we go to the chef comes out of the kitchen with his own special foie gras and puts it in front of me and stands over my shoulders And that's not a meal, that's not a thing you want to eat more than once a week, tops, even if you love it. It's not, it's, and we had like three straight days where for two meals a day, I was so sick after it was over. You were like the ghost. Right, so it took me a little while by the end to go back to foggrabah. But I just think the French do food great.

I mean, they really do. I've had a number of good three-star mission ones here also. Do you like a mission? place. Do you like a tasting menu? Fat duck and the waterside inn. But, you know, they're just interesting experiences that I've had here in London. Not if you've been to either one of those.

New York's great food. Of course. We're always, that's the thing, it's almost not like this. So this is a bad analogy, but I'm going to make it anyway. I never reread books. I never watch a TV show I've already watched because there's so many things out there I haven't seen yet.

So a lot of times with restaurants, even if I love them, I want to try something there. Okay. And similar to what we are doing tonight, when people ask me what I want when I go, I want what the chef thinks is best. I love everything. Do you eat everything?

I eat everything. So it's nothing I don't eat. So I ask, I'm always wanting to ask the chef, what is your favorite? What's the one you want to dazzle me with? Has that ever backfired? Foirre. Yeah.

When I got too much food, But not really. I mean, I'm trying to think of some instance when it has, but there's nothing I really don't eat. So I love to experiment with food. I think that's part of the fun and the joy is surprise me. I got to one time eat at what's the very famous restaurant in Spain, the one that was number one in the world forever and ever. I don't know if you ever had the luck to go there. No. this is it's kind of a funny story but my my I published in Spain and my older brother my younger brother who lives here in England he's lived here for 30 years we were going there when it was at its height and he goes as brothers do I know you think you're really cool but there's no way my boss can't get into bully there's no way you can get a bully there's no way you can get a bully it's a year and a half waitlist so I called my publisher I'm like there's got to be a way just so I can stick it in my brother's face you get you know how it's getting into bully and he goes oh not a problem we actually publish his books. It won't be a problem at all. Perfect. Oh, how funny. So we get there and we get to go

to Bully and we arrived there and my brother, who's a foodie, is just like in shock looking around. Did you case him with you? Of course. That was the whole thing. We were all going. I have two brothers and all three of us went with our families. And we, you know, we're throwing out of families, our wives. It was not pretty young kids. We had young kids at the time. And we get there and we get greeted by the owner and he says, oh, we have three different tables for you, Harlan. You can sit either in the center of the restaurant, or you could sit in the kitchen or have a private terrace overlooking the ocean. And I'm just looking at my brother like this.

And I go to, Craig, which one, which one would you like to eat at? And he was like, just faced her right. So I said today, what do you think? He goes, well, it's 36 courses. So I was in the first, they're like this big. They're like this big. First 24, why don't you sit in the kitchen and watch? And the last 12th sit outside on a deck and enjoy the view.

And I'm like, Craig, does that sound like a good idea? Oh, God. So, you know, I'm really sticking it to him as you can, as he would. Obviously. As you would. And so, but that was a perfect meal in a way because besides being great, what he did, every, every taste was a surprise. There was something that looked like an olive that tasted like an Oreo cookie. It was like that kind of a meal.

And I love being. So I'm always, I like to be, I like adventurous. That's why you like Heston Blumenthal as well, men, because like the, the kind of snail porridge. fruit or, you know, it's... Darling, could you have some water? Yeah, sure. I mean, not every day. No, sure.

So did we get your main, actually? Oh, I'm sorry. Are you going to go with... Are you going to have four-gras? No, four-gras. I'm going to have a starter. I'm going to have a starter, yeah. Boy, that's really a tough one.

I think the thing I end up ordering most, if that's a fair way of putting it. No. It's a really good, pounded-down veal millinets. But I mean, like a real. good one. Have you got a sweet tooth? Well, not really, but you know, it's funny. I was thinking this the other day. I went to a restaurant in New York that had one of those. Now it's very big to have tasting menus. Every restaurant, and then they upsell you. It's almost like you get

buying a car, right? Don't you want the better wheels? So, you know, you order maybe it's $85 for that. And then it's like, oh, but you want, if you get the Wagu, it's $1.15 and they're upselling you. But what I was thinking when I was there, and I'm not, I ask you guys, if you guys are great. I don't like fancy desserts. I'd rather have like a vanilla ice cream Sunday if I'm going to do it or something more basic. When they serve me some kind of exotic dessert,

I'm more of a basic guy like put ice cream on a pecan pie or an apple pie. That's it. That's as fancy as I want to get or a Sunday. Are you with me? I'm with you and I'm also really glad that you just said pecan pie because that's what you're having for putt. Really? Yes. Dang. And I have to say I have not made it. I've done a Nora Ephron where I bought it was that's how she said to do good hosting. You make, but you also rely on other people that are better than you. So it's an Otolengue pecan pie and it's really, really good. So I'm really glad that that's what you're going to have. Yeah, no. You can have it with me. Are you with me this on dessert though? Like I don't, you know, like sometimes we get these fancy marangays or whatever. And it's just like, it's not better. Deconstructed. I don't want it. I'd like it constructed, please.

Thank you. I don't know. I think when you see some very creative pastry chefs and it looks so beautiful. It looks beautiful. And I'm going to get a lot of hate for that from people out there. You're going to get a lot of hate for this whole menu, Harlan. You went with foie gras and then veal.

It's true. And then you've offended everyone. Chicken millenets. That's going to the chicken milanets so I don't get in trouble. Would you have an egg on top? I also, yeah, I do like the egg on top. another great one is the is um carbunara i love carbonara sauce but i have i don't know if she's known this country but it's a chef an american tv chef named rachel ray it's quite popular in

america and she's a close friend and she makes it or the way she told me that you have to make it again i don't make things she people tell me but you don't make any cream the mistake that most people make is cream you're supposed to use the water pasta yeah and so it actually somewhat healthy too. Not that that's necessarily a factor in our discussion. But, you know, also, big in America right now is the, my kids love

it, we do this all the time, the Omicassees, which is the tasting menu of the Japanese, you know, things like that. Are you big in Japan as well? I don't sell as well in Japan as I do elsewhere, but I'm published in Japan. Where's, like, your best place

to sell? France, Poland, and is France and Poland per capita are my two biggest countries. And lots of your books have been made into French dramas, haven't there? And Polish actually. Yeah. Yeah, there's three Netflix Polish shows. Oh, really? Yeah. There's three Netflix. I love Poland. Yeah, I do too. Isn't fun?

They're lovely. Yeah. And you can eat pierogi. And they treat you well. Yeah. That's the kind of thing like when I go to, as soon as I go to Warsaw, pierogis and vodka, let's do it. I want to do what you want to do. Take me to your place. That's how I am as a food person. I want it. I want that. I want what's good locally. What's your drink of choice? Lately, bourbon.

Yeah, lately I've been a bourbon guy. And I'm not a big drinker. Okay. We have the Hebrew faith. They're not good. I've broken that spell. Sort of my mom. But I have two drinks.

I try taking my pants off over my head. It's not a pretty sight. No, I like wine. If we were opening your fridge, we were coming over to yours, what would we find in your fridge, staples? Well, here's the thing. My wife's an excellent cook. Oh, wow.

Yeah, so I married an excellent cook. Well, done. Is that why you married her? No. Okay. But she's, you know, and she's one of those ones who can pick up and do anything very quickly, and you give her a few ingredients, and she can make anything fast, well. But the one thing she does like is she likes to be as fresh as possible.

So we have very little in our fridge because we're ordering it that day. If we're having it that night, it hasn't been sitting in a refrigerator for three or four days. So the only thing we have in the fridge is more like long-termish kind of stuff. So in our fridge we'll have mayonnaisees and ketchup, but it doesn't really have that nice piece of chicken with a nice piece. Yeah, we have the, but those come in like almost every day. So it's not sitting in the fridge very long. You know, the crisper will have it. We do the vegetables.

We do various dishes. She made this addition, not dissimilar to this. It was a, this with a little Chinese spin, Chow Fang kind of a thing that she made. recently. She's very good with the chicken milanais, pounding it down quickly, doing all. So she's really very talented. And I mentioned before this. She's got four children. She's got to be good. She's good. She's good. Yeah, yeah. So she's always been good. And she loves to cook for people. You know, that is one of her love languages. Where are you writing at the moment that you're that's working? Is anywhere working in London for you? So I've been here just, I came in the day before

yesterday. So I did media all day today and we'd had the premiere for runaway. Sorry. No, no, no, no, no. It's been a delight. But I wrote the entire flight over. I'm doing my first sort of nonfiction book. It's kind of a partial writer's writing guide and partial memoir, a little bit of both. Because what I realized when I was doing, you mentioned the BBC Maestro class we were talking about earlier. When I was doing it, I'm always that writer says, oh, I just make it up. I just make it up. But I realized everything actually did come. come for my life. So I'm trying to write both a memoir. And I wrote two books last year, and that's too many. So I was just like, I needed, for the first time my career, I needed a

break from the novel writing. Do you ever have to have help with, do you have like a private investigator mate that you've got on the blower being like, listen. Now, I was going to do this. Or is it all from your imagination? Well, I can call anybody. I mean, like, if I have a question about being a singer-songwriter, I'll just call you on the phone. And you, and you, you'll tell me what it's like. Okay. And that's where I'll get the good information. I don't do a lot of research reading.

Because if I talk to you, I'll get that one little nugget that won't be in a book and I'll use that. It'll be interesting and different and it'll feel more authentic than if I read a book on being, I'm doing your job. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, I do. I totally do. I would ask you, like, what's the weirdest thing that happened?

Tell us right now. What's the weirdest thing that, like, that happens to you? We're in backstage, what are you thinking right before you come out? Let's start with that. What is your last thought before you leave the dressing room? I really should have gone for a way before I got the leotard on. That's my main thing. It's about weeing.

And also it's my main thing. It's probably, and also probably thinking if I, I mean, mine are very neurotic Jewish things. Like, did I digest early enough? Mine is not the best thing for you. No, but that, no, that's perfect. You see, like the digesting thing, I would use that. Okay. Right?

The singer thinking that, and you would say, that's something he didn't read in a book. That sounds like something that's real impossible. So that you worry about, like, did I digest my food? Should I've eaten an hour earlier? Wait, I shouldn't have had that. I took meat tonight when I should have had chicken. Whatever that is, that's the one thing I'm always looking for as a writer. So that's true.

So that people can relate to these people more? Both relate, and it just doesn't it feel more real to you? I mean, if I tell you about that, rather than she was nervous and she was pacing, and she tested her voice out. Those are the cliche things you think of what's going on. But no, you're worried about your digesting. And that is the kind of thing that when you're, when you're, you write, it makes the character more authentic and real and brings them to like, and more like

you, as you just pointed out. Who do you read if you're not reading Harlan Coben? I really only read Harlan Coben. I'm trying to misbe, you know, prone. Now, I read so many people and I only read fiction. Who's one of your favorites? Oh, I can go on. My favorite author of all time is Philip Roth. Believe you or not. I have to say, my husband is upstairs, and my husband who never really read when he was younger. And when we started going out, I would be reading so much because I hadn't done an English literature degree then at that point, so I was still into reading. And I, we would just give him Harlan Coben and he was like, it transformed him. Yeah. Actually, he would, but he was, he'll come and say hi in a bit, but like, you got him into

reading and actually made him enjoy reading. And he was so excited that you were. That's the sweetest thing I've ever heard. Yeah. That's so sweet. When I hear that kind of comment, you know, that's, yes, it's really, it's very touching. Thank you. So we have the dessert. It's a, what do you call it? Pecan. No. Pecan. No, but, no, but what do you, pecan? And what did our American friends say at the weekend? What do you say? I say pecan, but I'm English. I do say pecan also. Okay, but then our friends said pecan. He's wrong. He's wrong. Okay, he's wrong. Okay, fine. Well, we've got a pecan pie. And I've tried to recreate the whip cream that they came with it because my husband ate all the bloody whipped cream. So I've done this with orange zest, a bit of vanilla extract, a little bit of icing sugar, and I think that's it. So yeah, it's pecan pie with a bit of cream.

There you go. This is like my mom would buy. Yeah? I said my mom never big, but, you know, my wife doesn't like to bake either. She's not a sweet eater. I'm not bothered. So, yeah, exactly. She would rather concentrate on the cooking.

baking she would rather farm out to somebody else. Before we let you go, Harmon, what is a nostalgic taste that can transport you back somewhere? Oh, God. Hmm. A nostalgic taste that we can transport me back. Well, it's my parents, it's probably not a good taste. No, but like...

The thing is, as much as my mother was a terrible cook, my grandfather was a true foodie. And so as a kid, I would be eating. either something horrendous at home or he would take me to La Bernardin in New York or something like that. There was like no in between. But I would think actually the family dinners that you mentioned were at the Golden China restaurant. They just weren't cooked. But we had every Saturday night, we went with my grandfather, my mother's, one aunt's and her family, and my uncle and his family, all of us would go to this place called the Golden China restaurant. And I've never been

able to duplicate the shrimp and lobster sauce we had there. When I taste the shrimp and lobster sauce, I'm like, almost, but never golden China in West Orange, New Jersey, in the early 1970s, late 1960s, that's what brings me mostly back, the Chinese food that I had. That's my family meal. That's my comfort food, if you will, is the golden, which hasn't been open in about 40 years. But that was what I think about when I, you know, he always took us out to eat. That's lovely.

Yeah. The shrimp and lobster, I don't think they do it here. I don't think I'd do it. I'm not sure I'd do it anywhere, anymore the way it did. We always ordered the same thing. He had a ton of spare ribs,

my grandfather, a ton of dim sum, shrimp with lobster sauce, and then maybe like one surprise. And it was a table bigger than this. It was maybe 10 or 12 us. And every Saturday, the entire family,

I would say from about 1968 to 1974-ish, with a couple of exceptions, that was our thing. And it was, you know, we looked so forward to it because, again, it was edible. You know, it was... So your mom never made chicken soup? No.

My grandmother could make chopped chicken liver. That was her only thing that she could kind of make. But she only did it once a year, you know, on Passover or something like that, once a year. In fact, when we used to have the turkey dinners for Thanksgiving, either my mother, because it was still sexism, my mother or my aunt would make them. and they were both horrendous cooks and it would be literally like I hated turkey my whole life

because when they would cut it it would be like shavings or it would be like shavings more than it was meat it would almost be like sawdust kind of coming off they had one of those electric and they had an electric knowledge to do one of those

and it would come off like would flake more than it would be oh it's just terrible my uncle married a woman who could cook we were all so happy for Thanksgiving you know so the family Thanksgiving oh it was terrible

just drown it and gray Did you celebrate Thanksgiving this year? Yes. I am fortunate enough to live on the parade route. Oh, amazing. So we have people come over in the morning very early because the parade starts like at 8, 8.30 in the morning. And the balloons come right past our window.

And I don't care how old you are. You're a kid when giant Snoopy goes by your window. It's still to this day. I love watching people's reaction who have never seen it before. It's so cool. If you ever want to come over for Thanksgiving, it's worth it just to come see this parade. And when it's uncomfortable inside,

so don't have to worry about the weather. It comes right by, the balloons come right by. So we do that every Thanksgiving. We stuff as many people as we count to the apartment. And the problem is, no one wants to not go, so it's just jammed now. But I'm hoping to figure away of starting to cycle people in and out. Because it's getting...

Sittings. It's really hard, you know, because it's just so much fun. And the balloons are right there. And they're such a great spirit. So, yes, we always celebrate it. What do you serve at your Thanksgiving kind of breakfast? The breakfast? Bagels, smear, locks.

Where are you getting me from? I'm getting them from Ridgewood Hot Bagels in New Jersey. He drives in from New York. New York bagels are not as good as New Jersey bagels. I'm sorry, they're not. They're just not. So I have this guy, I've known from years. He will drive in.

I have to go meet him because the streets are closed off near my apartment. I've got to walk two blocks down. Six a.m. He brings enough for over 100 people. come we have over a hundred people come and that's and then we have so much left over locks i mean i can't where do you get your locks from him he brings it all white white fish you know white fish bread yeah egg salad different egg salad yeah cream cheese chive cheese some kind of surprise cheese he always brings i think this year was jalapeno cheese all you know all kinds of bagels there's them thank goodness he

pre-slices them yeah right and then and and and i keep saying to him maybe coming the night before and he gets like mad at me. He goes, no, I got to make those bagels in the morning, so they come to me. They're still hot. You know what I mean? That kind of thing. So I said to him, maybe if we didn't serve as good of food, we'd have less people showing out. So by the time, dinner comes around, frankly, I'm not much in the mood for turkey anyway, because I eat so much of that. No, that's so addictive tasting. That's so fun. I love that. I'll be there next Thanksgiving. Come, bring them to Thanksgiving. No, we've talked about Thanksgiving, but any Christmas traditions in your house?

Well, we have the tree and all that sort of thing. My wife and I, neither one of us, are particularly religious, so we celebrate everything. And the kids are kind of like, if there's a present involved, I'm good, you know what I mean? But a lot of times we also, because one of the few times is my kids are grown now. My youngest is 24. My oldest is 31. But over Christmas is usually the time I can get them all away. And that's the most important thing, as you know, to have a chance to have all four of my kids.

A full set, yeah. So we usually now on Christmas are in a Caribbean island or Costa Rica or this year we're doing a boat in the British Virgin Islands. Oh, wow. Yeah, it's just as, and it's just that you're, you're together. I was going to ask you if you ever went on holiday. Yeah, that's, that's, but when I'm a holiday, right, actually, I like to. Of course you do. Well, you know what it is?

Life is about balance. This is my own little personal, quick philosophy. But like, you know, you're eating right. You're exercising, your relationship with your spouse, your kids, your friends, all that. All that for me could be in balance, but if I'm not writing well, it's going to go out of balance. So if I can do an hour in the morning, I wake up before the kids or whatever else, which isn't hard on vacation. And I just wait for an hour, it just keeps me in balance. Does that make sense?

So it's like your workout. Exactly. Instead of people meditate or they have hobbies that are creative, my life is creative. You fight psychopaths and killers and kidnappers and, yeah. Well, we can't wait. And because you're so prolific, we're sure there's another one coming out probably the year after or even six months. So we can't wait to see more on Netflix and read more. Thank you for being.

Thank you, guys. Thank you so much for having me. Such a pleasure. Thank you. Mum, tell everyone what you just did. As he was leaving, I gave him a big hug and said goodbye, Myron. He said, that's all right, that's a mistake. So I'm so sorry.

He said, that's a mistake I don't mind you making. Harlan Coben was so lovely. So delight. So interesting. We need to get more writers on here. Yeah, it made me think maybe I could write. Oh my God, Lenny. I'm going to watch the master class that he did.

Social worker come podcast, Thriller. I'm excited. Yeah, but he's such a sweet man. How did he vice say it's such violent people? That's what I thought. Because a lot of his films are very, his series or... Why didn't we ask him that?

I don't know, actually. Can you text him? We're cocked up. We know we cocked up. We'll get him on again. Yeah. Love Tarlan Coben. What a guy.

Runaway is out on the first. of January on Netflix and if you like Fool Me Once and you like Safe and you like all those Those are all him and you should go and watch Runaway on the 1st of January. I love a tall man.

Oh, all right. You just love him. I love him. He was fab. Yeah. Thank you for listening and we will see you next week. I don't know.