Table Manners with Jessie and Lennie Ware - Jack Rooke

Episode Date: May 27, 2026

We are so happy to be joined by award winning comedy writer Jack Rooke on the podcast this week! Fresh from his BAFTA win for his beautiful comedy series ‘Big Boys’ (and still suffering from a 2 day hangover), Jack joined us for brunch to celebrate the occasion. Jack is in the midst of preparing for the return of his comedy show ‘Good Grief’, and we talked about how comedy helped him with the loss of his dad when he was a teen. We also covered meeting Celie Imrie, rating gifted lasagnes, his love of working in Paris, his dream of Christmas dinner & thanksgiving merged into one meal, and we even get a confession involving Jessie’s mobile number! What a total delight to chat with the fabulous Jack, good luck with the tour! ‘Good Grief’ is touring the UK from August to October, tickets on sale now.Listen & watch Table Manners here - https://tablemanners.komi.io/Follow Table Manners on:Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/tablemannerspodcast/TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@tablemannerspodcastFacebook - https://www.facebook.com/tablemannerspodcastYouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@TableMannersPodcast Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello and welcome to Tabermanagh's. I'm Jessie Ware and I'm here with Lenny and it's a windy spring day. Are we still in spring? It should be summer by May but absolutely is not summer. I nearly have the heating on. I had it full glass all over. It's blowing a hoolly out there. I know it's and that's a cold wind. We're doing a breakfast episode today. So someone's coming over for breakfast. It's Jack Rook who I absolutely love. He created one of the best TV TV shows on Channel 4, brilliant British, I don't know, would you call it? It is comedy, but it's also completely touching and beautiful called Big Boys. Had three seasons. I adored them all. But started in the Edinburgh Fringe with winning, I think, lots of accolades for his stand-up called Good Grief,

which has its 10-year anniversary this year. And that's why he's going back to Edinburgh to do it. How old is he? He's one of them ones that started young. He's a bit Lena Dunhamy, do you know what I mean? Very clever and successful at a young age. Has he reached 30 yet? Yeah, I think maybe he is 30 or something.

He's just very good. And he's coming over to talk about good grief, coming back. And I hope big boys. No, big boys is wrapped up, mum, if you haven't. I know, but he'll still talk. He won't talk about that. He says he's done with pretending he's at uni now. So he's not a big boy anymore.

He's a big boy now. He's a big boy, yeah. So we have Jack Rook coming on to talk about. Yeah, stand up, good grief, big boys, all of it. I love seeing Jack. And I can't wait to chat to him. And I've been on food duty. Let me get the cookbooks.

So Itimar and Sarit, who I love, they are Honey and Co. They are just the most beautiful couple, but also amazing, amazing chefs. They've got a new cookbook called Honey and Co Daily. And they've got eggs the daily way, which is just kind of, you know, we're doing breakfast, so why not? But it's peas with basil, spring onions, garlic and a bit of Aleppo chili. And then you just do it on toast. I didn't make my sourdough because I haven't done my starter. I know.

I'm sorry. You're slipping. I know. Did you buy it? I did. And I got nice M&S bread. Okay. It's good.

Yeah. And then you do a fried egg, but you put and you kind of coat the toast with some goat's juice. So there's like. How would you describe the crust? Is it a veneer removal crust? This one, yeah. Yeah, okay. Yeah, absolutely.

And then. And then we've done, I say we, because Rosie, my sweet Rosie, has helped me with the customer. So another amazing chef, Helen Graham, has this new book. She's not related to James, is she? She's not. But she did go to university with your son. Oh, wow. And she was the head chef at Bubala, that amazing vegetarian restaurant.

And centerpiece is her cookbook. And it's really beautiful. And it really complements Sarie and Itima's food. And I've done hot apricots and cold saffron custard. But Rosie, sweet rosy made the custard yesterday. I tasted it this morning and it was a bit grainy. So we did a new one. And now the next one is a bit runny.

So I don't know. You can have grainy and more firm or you can have runny and not great. I think it'll taste delicious. Anyway, and so yeah, you fry the apricots in some maple syrup and olive all and some sea salt flakes. So it's really, and the custard is amazing. I know you're not mad about saffron, are you? No. Sorry.

I love the colour. It tastes so beautiful. It's just slightly... No, I think, I mean, I have had a little taste, and it tasted delicious. So yeah, it's nice. Two cookbooks from two brilliant chefs. It's just nice to have new ideas. Yeah.

So, yeah, Jack Brooke coming up on table manners. Jack. Do I look human? What do you mean? You look amazing. Okay, great. But the voice is horse. The voice is horse.

Why is the voice horse? I just spoke to absolutely everyone on Sunday night. So I was chatting. I met Martin Lewis, money said he was. Oh my God, his speech was so beautiful. Oh, his speech was so nice. And quite like, I mean, did you talk about? Yeah, we spoke about his speech.

And we also, and he was like, we really love big boys. And it was so nice. Everyone loves big boys. It's very, very sweet. Can we just say firstly, congratulations. You won a BAFTA. Thank you so much. A BAFTA craft.

I mean, for comedy writer. for big boys, which you know I love. Well, thank you, darling. And mum said, well, I can't wait for the next season. I was like, no, this shit's wrapped up. No, it's done. Yeah, it's done. But in a really lovely way, we got to end it how we wanted to end it.

You could do old boys next. Oh, I'd love to do old boys. Do you know what I'd really like to do next? What? Big girls. Oh. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Big girls, I'm working on it. Are you? Yeah. It's a brand. It's a brand. So congratulations on your BAFTA,

but you were also at the BAFTAs, the Tele BAFTAs on Sunday. It's now Tuesday when we're recording this, by the way. And you have apparently just left your party. We've just, so I haven't just left the party. We left the party at about 6, 7 a.m on Monday morning. The whole roof of the sea containers, the whole rooftop bar. So you have the BAFTAs. The ceremony is so long, everybody is sick of it.

At the Royal Festival Hall. Then you have a dinner. You kind of get through that because no one's eaten in about four or five hours. Then you have a party sort of on like the concourse of the South Bank. Yeah. And it was amazing and everyone's there. And then everyone goes at 2am to the sea containers hotel where the rooftop is from 2 till 6. When you say everyone?

I mean, genuinely. Was the older ones there? Yeah. Oh, interesting. It was a really lovely. I felt like this year was one of the loveliest baffters I've been to. It really felt like everyone there just wanted to sort of celebrate. and I think it's like it's been quite tough the TV and film industry.

I think like, I think there's been a lot of stuff that hasn't been able to get, you know, cross the line. It's been tricky for a lot of workforce. I mean, a lot of people are sort of struggling with like sort of unemployment. Like there's definitely been a decline. I think post-COVID there was a boom of making loads of film and TV and then it's been a bit of a tricky one. So if you're managing to make work and then you're managing to be nominated for a BAFTA and then you're managing to win them. them, you want to have a bit of a booze up. You know what I mean?

So what were you drinking and who were you dancing with? I was drinking because I'm very classy. A lot of ngronies. Oh. Which is my favourite drink. Is it? Why? Because I sort of think, if I'm not a big drinker,

if I'm going to drink, I want it to taste like booze. Yeah. I want it to hit the back of my throat. So what's the main spirit in the ngroni? The moot. Gin. The moo. Is it gin?

Campari. It's a shit mix. It's a real. It's quite bitter. It can be quite bitter. And then sometimes you can get different deviations. You can get a white ngroni where they replace something. Maybe it's blank.

I don't know. I don't want to sound like a mixologist. Do they put soda in to make it long? No. But maybe they can do. Spagliato. That's the... What spagliata?

You don't know about memes already, do. It's not a meme, is it? No, I don't know. Oh, it's like... You would love this. It's quite even spous. It's like, who was it? Olivia Cook.

Cook with Emma Darcy. Yeah, yeah, from House of Dragon. Yeah. And she goes, Nogroni, it's Bagliato. Oh, was it a bit of Prosecco. Do you put Priceco in it? Yeah. I think that's the one that fucked me up the other day and I had the worst hangover on. Yeah, I have, I have got a slight hangover still.

I hope you don't mind. And I, that was never what I ever wanted to bring to table manners. You look clean. Thank you. No, you're not sparkly. Okay, bright. Yeah, bright-eyed. So who was the most interesting person you spoke to?

Hmm Which you know what When you get nominated For BAFTAs You sort of do like a week Of events before So this is why I'm exhausted We did like a big Vogue party on Wednesday

And there's a downhill dinner I actually dressed myself You are good at dressing yourself Yeah I think because it's a bigger person It's quite difficult to get a stylist Who's going to find brands that So I've got You know what you're quite good

I wore an Adidas collaboration Valenciaga Blazer. So we're talking like a black oversized but with the early last three stripes down the side. It's very melcy. Funny. Yeah.

But I met Celia Imrey. Oh, did she fart? She's lovely. I wish she'd farted. No, she did not far. Poor woman. She was. Yeah, I know.

I felt... I felt so sorry. I know. This woman in green. I'm like, she's an icon. Oh my God. She's a national treasure. She's a fantastic actor.

Hill. She's probably cast her in the new studio. She should be in the studio. Yeah, if he's lucky to get the Imrey. She's been in an incredible American stuff as well. She's in a show called Better Things. Better Things, my favorite show. Okay.

There's a new season. Look, Better Things is a hugely, when I first started writing Big Boys, I was watching Better Things. And I think the way that they play out relationships and those moments in which, and maybe particularly, like, I sort of feel like I come from more of a matriarchal family than anything. Like I've got a lot of aunties, a lot of female cousins, nieces.

And I feel like you really celebrate that in big boys, by the way. Like that beauty of like your mark. It's like it's a beautiful, beautiful. I think that's why I want to write big girls. I prefer writing women in a weird way. Do you know? And the show's called Big Boys, Cousin Shannon. She had such a great, like the arc.

Yeah. It was beautiful. Well, thank you. Sharon. I mean, yeah, I don't even think better things in particular. Okay, so did you dance with Celia Rimery? Dance with Celia Rimery. Then met Celia Rimery the next day at the, at this Dunhill dinner.

She was still going and we were still talking about better things and then we were sort of... Can I say, can I confess something? Yeah. So I've done something really bad and you should tell me off for this. Why? I smoked my first ever cigarette in February. And now are you addicted? I smoked my final cigarette with Celia Imri on Thursday.

and we both went we should quit and I haven't smoked since. I mean, it was only good. Yeah, I was, yeah. No, I think, I think start late, have a little double. It was just to get me through the Baptist season. You sound like maybe you could be prone to asthma. I am. So I think maybe avoid cough.

We're going to avoid cigarettes now, but me and Celia, every had a cigarette in Mayfield. I mean, this is the most name-droppy, no, I love it. Show busy, lovely stuff. But she was really, really lovely, and to speak to her about better things and to speak to her, I suppose,

about being an actor and better things. What I really love, I mean, there's an episode with her that I think is called Phyllis in a car park. Do you remember the scene in a car park? What happened in the car? And there's just like, she gets lost and she can't find her car. Oh, yeah, because she's kind of losing her.

She's losing it. And then there's a beautiful funeral episode. I just think on the whole, to have somebody like her in an American show, to me, I'm like, that's a very classy casting. Yeah. I think Pamela Adlon is a very classy writer. Do you feel like Seth Rogen really did?

didn't know who she was. Yeah. Well, then he's not watching enough a telly. He's not watching enough TV actually. Seth Rogen. Yeah. Watch some more telly.

Yeah. Some really good comedy, Seth. But, I mean, she was so lovely, and I also found out that she doesn't fly. She's got that condition where you're not really

supposed to be on a plane. Oh. So she goes by her boat to L.A. She gets the Queen Mary to New York. Yeah. She entertains everyone for a week. Basically, like,

she introduces screening. She kind of hosts and compares, then she gets a series of cars and trains across to Los Angeles. I thought, that dedication to being like, I want to be in better things, at her, you know, stage in her career, I was like, yeah. Celia Emery was hands down the best person I've met. Okay. I, um, I just want to take a moment to acknowledge your brilliant speech.

Oh, thank you. Because you got it all out. I know. And it was completely, well, thank you so much. And for anybody that didn't listen to it, you were talking about cuts to Edinburgh and also state schools about how, can you explain better than I'm going to? Yeah, I mean, it's, I won like maybe last Sunday and I wasn't really expecting to because I'd won the year before. And the kind of thing in, in America, people win, you know, 17 of the same awards for each season they do. But in the UK, that doesn't really happen.

Except for another lesson, darling. Oh, God, yeah. Did he have a cigarette, would you? You probably do one now, right? Maybe. But that adolescence is a limited series, so they can only win once for that one series. Whereas we won on series two.

So when it was coming to series three, I was like, I'm coming merely as a sort of ceremonial piece of furniture at this point. So then to win again, I hadn't prepared a speech. I didn't know what I was saying. Wow. I had no clue.

Maybe you brought out stats like that. And it's something just came out of me. And it's because I've been doing, I've set up this commission with the roundhouse, which is an amazing. like art where you've performed at the house before like art center meets music venue underneath the main stage there's all these like creative hubs for young people to go and explore creativity to go and start learning how to DJ or rehearsal rooms or start up a radio station blah blah blah and i've been involved with them since i was a kid and we've sat up a commission to try to lobby the government to look into better ways for young people to access the arts so i'd sat on this zoom for this commission and yours here's hearing people from all over the country who are trying to advocate for better arts accessibility. And all these stats were just sort of in my head from a week of just being sat there.

And then when I won, I was like, oh my God, do you know, all I can really do in this moment is say, this TV show wouldn't exist without the arts, without fringe theatres, without comedy clubs, without arts bursaries. And all the stuff that I benefited from when I started, there was a thing called Ideas Tap, which was a resource for young people where you could apply for little points of money. Big Boys was funded by something called the BFI Young Audiences Content Fund. Does that not exist now?

Doesn't exist. None of it exists. In fact, the week Big Boy Series 1 came out, they pulled that stream of funding. And so I feel like I've been really lucky, but every time I've got my foot in the door, something's been pulled up, and I do think it's particularly bad.

And that Edinburgh stat is real. There was a fund to help new artists go to the Edinburgh Fringe. It's been cut by 93%. And I'm worried that, in state schools particularly, it's not even that drama and music is being cut off the syllabus, which it is in some places, but it's being discouraged. And I think if you have that disparity between what people are getting in the private education sector and what kids are fostering there, like we've got to also make sure that we are giving

arts and drama and musical opportunities to people who aren't from those sort of backgrounds. So it all just came out of me. It was fantastic. They'll be asking you to be the next leader of the Labour Party. There's an opening for a good orator. Congratulations. Well, thank you so much. And it was, yeah, it was lovely.

Well, let's bring it back to your childhood. Yes. And who was around the dinner table? And what was a very memorable dish? I really have to say that I was really thinking about this because my mum's an excellent cook. And me and my brothers are not. Well, actually, my eldest brother is pretty good.

How many are there of you? There's three. I'm one of three and they're always so annoyed because in big boys I present my character as an only child. Well, actually, I thought you were till I read that you weren't. I know, yeah, but I think I was born on my eldest brother's 21st birthday. Oh, so you're almost like an only child, yeah. I was raised as a kid quite solo, which is why I'm a bit of a spoiled brat. But I would really have to say that the dish that I remember the most is my dad coming and drunk from the pub and making round. Rounds upon rounds of cheese on toast under the grill with loads of Liam Perrin sauce and loads of black pepper and like thick cheese.

And then going into the living room and watching like the Catherine Tate show or Michael McIntyre or Mock the Week or have I got news for you? Like I can really remember watching comedy with him with slabs of bread and cheese. Sounds great. Yeah, just the best. How old were you when he passed away? I had just turned 15. Oh, that's too young. Yeah, it was too young.

How old was he, though? He was 55. So he was very young. Very young, yeah. And it was quite unexpected. He was ill, and then we didn't really know what was wrong with him, and then he was diagnosed with cancer, and he died ten days later. Shit.

It was that rapid. No, none of us were ready. None of us were ready. None of us had really spoken about what to do or what the plans were. And I think that's something that I always, you know, try and speak about grief quite a lot, because we never got a truly chance beforehand to sort of access the scale of it, even just the admin involved in it.

But I think, you know, it's sort of what's like inspired all of my work up until maybe like Sunday. You know, I don't think I'm going to write about grief again. I was thinking about this. On Sunday night we're obviously like all quite drunk and we're all at the BAFTAs and I've got the whole team, the whole big boys gang or the cast the crew.

And I was like, this is it. This is the last thing we've had. in the calendar and we started that project in 2017 and I for oddly sort of feel like the last sort of day I've had just in a hotel in bed eating room service and um I've just been like quite relieved it's over because I feel like that's such a full creative experience that's lived that's been a struggle that we've managed to fight for that we've got and now and then it's one after and now it's done and I'm like that's such a lovely arc for it but I'm sort of, yeah, I don't think I'm going to, apart from this tour that I'm about to do where I talk

about grief all the time. So yeah, I need to actually still get my head in the game a little bit. Which, I might take this off because I'm sweating quite a bit. Are you cold? Yeah, but I don't know what's wrong with me. Let's talk about good grief because this is kind of where you got your big break, right? Ten years ago. Yeah, I did the very first showing in the roundhouse's young people's like theatre space November 2014. And like, that has carried me all the way through. There are stories and lines from that show that are in the final series of Big Boys.

And I'm so proud of that because that show, it isn't, you know, and I never say this to put down anyone else's work, but it's not Fleabag or Baby Rainier. It was never produced with like a team that was not, it's not a proper play by any stretch. It is a sort of quite cut and paste, a bit punk at times, me cobbling together stories and little film. because I studied sort of documentary making.

So I filmed all of these things with my nan, who you both loved, my nan Sistley, who was a dinner lady. And she and me would speak quite a lot about grief because I think it happened, like you said. Like I was too young. I was talking about losing a parent and my nan was 80 and talking about losing a child

and that's just not the way it should be. But we really found solace and sort of slagging everyone off for how awkward and weird they would be with us after he died. And those sort of things where people kind of put their foot in it or they just don't want to talk about it and pretend like it doesn't exist. What was kind of the worst thing that somebody said?

I can remember like, I think people used to say to my nan quite a lot like, oh, you should have gone fast. Things like that where they're just speaking. Often, no, often. A parent would say that. Yeah, but you don't want somebody else to say it. You don't want someone else say it.

No. But, you know, I think people, sometimes I remember one of my dad's friends sort of crossing the street to avoid me because, you know, I sort of, he didn't know what to say. And this is it. This is why I wanted to write the show. Is that, do you think about something very British

that people don't know what to say? I think it's something very British. I think it's something that we have got better at, actually since I first started doing that show. I do think we've had a much bigger, broader mental health conversation in the last 10 years. I think people are slightly more empathetic. But it was really difficult at the time.

And mine and my nans way of dealing with it was humour, was laughing. And I think if you can make something funny, you can take the sting out of it. It doesn't mean it's like not painful, but you can take the shock maybe. You can, it suddenly becomes something processable. Was your dad funny? Yeah, really funny. Yeah. Really funny.

He's a black cab driver. Oh, God. He'd have a lot to say. He'd have a lot to say. Everything. I know. Yeah. Politics, the lot.

Do you know, my dad was sort of like really, like politically, not loyal to anyone. I think voted every party at every point at every different stage, which I've sort of quite liked. I, oddly, you know, some people they come from, like, I'm a Labour family or we're a conservative family. I very much feel like my family are like, who's there, what are they offering,

what's the current thing, and then they kind of go by that. which I find really interesting. And I mean, yeah, he would have a lot to say. But he was really good, I think. I think he knew that I was gay. I think he knew he had a little, no, no, I was too young. I think he knew he had a little weirdo on his hand. So he'd often, yeah.

He'd often take me into London in the cab when I'd drive him with him. Well, no, he'd take me. It's like Camden Market. He'd take me into like colorful characters. He'd take me to, you know, he had friends who, like, lived in Highgate and quite nice houses. And then friends he lived in Hillingdon in Tower Blocks. Like he would, I got to sort of experience a lot of different types of London, a lot of different classes, a lot of different places. And I think that equipped me to sort of, I don't know, understand lots of different people's experiences.

So I think he, I don't know, I think he really like, I think he would love what I've ended up doing. because I think he sort of Also and I remembered this the other day My dad, because he was a black cab jockey And he would run around people like Harry Enfield Or he once had Tara Palmer Tompkinson Remember her? Yeah

She got in his cabin She was wearing a beaded top Unless she shut the door She like clips the other beads And my dad was like I've been cleaning up Tara Palmer Tompkinson's beads For the last 45 minutes But he would often get like comedy producers

And he would say to them And I did not know this I think my son should write a comedy. He's really funny. Because we used to watch sitcoms religiously. Like I never was a, we never really went to the theatre march. I don't think ever went to art galleries or anything like that. These are all things I found in my independent later life.

But sitcoms were the thing. And so there's cards at home. My favourite, the Vicar of Tivoli Hands Down. Oh, really? I loved the Vigli. I just, it's such a brilliant performance. But all of them, Emma Chambers is, and I loved Abbaugh. Fab too. I thought Ab-Fab was great. But there's a kind of gentleness with Vicar of

Dibbley, isn't there, that maybe, like, spoke to. I think there's it, oddly, that show, if you really take it, it's about the acceptance of outsiders. It's about an insular community having a woman vicar at a time where that would have felt so radical, and all of them being slight oddballs in and of themselves. That I love. I love any show that is driven by people choosing someone who isn't like them, where we have the ability to go, you know what, you're not like me and we see things differently, but I still have compassion for you and I want to be around you and I might learn from you. That to me is at the crux of big boys with Jack and Danny and that whole group. Yeah, but it's so totally inspired by the Vicar of Dibli, I think.

I would like to just go back to your grandma and you. Was your grandma part of the rating of the lasagna? Yes. Okay, can we talk about that? Yes, we can talk about it too much. No, no, not talking about it. So she wasn't like the nun in Catherine Tate? No, that's more like my mum. Oh. No, my nan was slightly more, I don't know, she was just really funny, very dry at times.

You wouldn't expect her to be as funny. My granddad was sort of quite a play by the rules kind of guy, whereas my nan was not. She was always naughty, always chicky, always slipping me a little bit of food when she should, and always encouraging like a little streak of imagination. But yeah, she, well, no, she would have been involved in a lot of the lasagna. Explain the lasagna. So, and do you know what? It's interesting because I really think my whole career came from a poem I wrote about lasagnas.

I wrote a funny comedy poem when I was 18 about people, keep them coming to the door to drop lasanas off after my dad had died. And sometimes they would just drop it off on the doorstep and run back into their car as if it was like an unwanted, like like an orphan that we were given and we had so many lasagnas just everywhere we were kind of just going around with a fork going try a bit too much beshma so you're rating then we were rating then we made a grid on the fridge and we were like Tracy Brooks from Park Avenue she's the best she's still the best she makes the best apple cakes why was it so good hers I think was good because it had a big kick to it oh you know

sometimes with a lasagna I think I don't know I don't think I had the language at the time I couldn't tell you, but it was just, it felt, you know, you were speaking about this with Lisa Kudra, about how KFC is good, but not because really the chicken, it's because of all the herbs and spices. Oh, it's great, isn't it? A lasagna with herbs and spice that really done well. You had to liven it up. Liven it up, it had a pick. Oh, okay. But, yeah, and then some of them were really awful and really watery, and you're like, well, my dad's just died and you've given me a shit lasagna.

I'm sure they didn't intend to. No, of course. Is it funny when someone dies, they, people won't use the word they've died. They have to use like pass or passed on or past. Why can't they just say they've died? It's a very British thing. We have over 200 euphemisms in the English language for death. Things like shuffle off this mortal coil.

Things like Brown-Brette. We cannot say it. And for so long, I remember that was a huge part of the first few performances I did of Good Grief. were like talking about how we just can't say dead and I'd be like he's dead. To me that felt comforting. Me too. That felt like concrete, transparent, the truth.

Yeah. And when people sort of dall and it's around it, you can't equip yourself with any autonomy when you're pretending like someone isn't here anymore. It's like, no, let's own it. There was another thing I remember writing when I was a kid about like the dinner table and about there being like an empty plate.

And I think we definitely had that for the first few years after. it would be like, who's going to sit in that chair, that was dad's chair, that's just not sitting at all, and let's acknowledge it. And now I think my brother just sits in it and doesn't think twice, which is kind of the beauty of grief, is that, you know, the pain gets less, and you forget, and then new people come in, and now there's, like, nieces and nephews, and, you know, you fill the tape, you fill the gap with new people. How old would he be now?

Oh, God, I think he would be, like, 73. So very young still. Very young still, I know. Very young. How old are you, darling? 74. I wouldn't have thought you were a day past 56. Not at all any.

Thank you. Should I make some food? Yeah. Whilst you chat about last supper? You've not had room service this morning, have you? No, I haven't. I've eaten nothing this morning. Okay, good.

I've eaten nothing this morning. The room service at the hotel I was staying at, though, I had a lovely little kind of, I had a little meze of different beers. Okay. I had some lovely wilted kale, some really nice buttermilk chicken tins. tenders because I know you're a fried chicken girl.

I love a good chicken tender. But I never eat it because I feel too guilty to eat fried chicken. Well, do you know what I think you need to? Do you go to New York much? We were there last April. Oh really? Where's your favourite New York? Really, I feel like all throughout, I was staying in Dumbo

last time I went. I was there over Christmas. Where is Dumbo? Dunbo is like South Brooklyn. You can get the ferry there. I went to this amazing Italian place. where they did chicken fingers. What was it called?

Do you know what? It's opposite and a more famous Italian place. Frankies or something. It's opposite a place called Juliette's, but it's not Juliette's, which is the famous one with the queue outside. It's the one without the queue outside. So they did like little chicken. Chicken tenders.

You get them in a bowl, and then you can dip them in Aran's dressing, a barbecue. And you can just pick whatever dressings you want. And did that, were they seasoned well? They were seasoned supremely well. Would you have fried chicken? on your last meal. Tell me what your last supper would be.

Oh, my last supper. Okay, I was thinking, I was thinking about this. I really, I quite like the most simplest start as possible. I think when you're starting out on a meal, you want to go simplicity as king. Okay. I would maybe go prosciutto melon.

Lovely. Palmaha melon. Lovely. Or just some like really well done, like chicken yakatori skewers. Oh, lovely. Something very plain, not too adventurous.

You just start with something like, It's satiates your hunger, but it's nice. And just tittles your taste bugs, yeah. Yes. Now, this probably wouldn't go with that as a starter, but my main is always going to have to be Christmas dinner. If it was my last supper. Would it be? Christmas dinner.

Okay. I think Christmas dinner's great. It's just the best meal. Turkey. Stuffing. Stuffing's my favourite food. You know, and lovely Andy Oliver. Yeah.

She does a podcast where you pick one dish for Radio 4. I did it maybe like four or five years ago, and I chose stuffing. And she explained to me the history of stuffing, how it was used for all the scraps and left-govers. And stuffing to me is... Delicious. God-team. Do you have a special stuffing that you like? Do you know what my mum...

Just sage an onion? I sort of like it all, but my mum does go... So my mum will do the main shop at Sainsbury's or Tesco, sometimes Morriton's Azda. We've got a big Azda in Watford on the roundabout. You're very lucky. Thank you. I love Ashton. I love a Nasda.

Me too. But then she'll go to M&S Weight Choice for the Bits. So we might have a posher stuffing than we do anything else. Okay. And I do believe that Marks and Spencer comes up with the best stuffing around Christmas time. We, we, I do one with apricots and walnut. Yeah. Or I do cranberry.

A fruity stuffing is great. A fruity stuffing. But I quite like having a few different types of stuffing. I've also, when I first moved, I lived with my mum during COVID. Yeah. And then 2021 I moved back to London and I live with two Americans. So I became a thank, I never celebrated Thanksgiving before. And I think Thanksgiving is brilliant.

It is brilliant. It's the sweet potatoes. Yeah. Sort of marshmallow stuff on top. The collard grids. Like everything about Thanksgiving. I would actually quite like to do a sort of hybrid Christmas, English Christmas dinner, American Thanksgiving dinner kind of fuse together.

Yeah. There'd be a lot of cranberry going on. It'd be a lot of cranberry going on. But that's never a bad thing for me. Never a bad thing. And a very good thing in case anyone has a urinary tract infection. Do you buy extra pigs in blankets? Yes, of course.

You've got to have as many. And I'm really bad. You've got to eat them all before you even sit down. You tell me off because I sneak into the kitchen before everything's been served up and I'm always like, me too. They're my favourite thing. They're so salty and delicious. Especially if you like cook them just right.

you get if you hit that sweet spot where everything is like the saltiest it can be the dream how do you like your eggs oh my however you want to give them to me is it no wait you you just you just you just do you like do you like them turned i like them turned yeah fine i don't even know what we're having by the way this is so exciting it's going to be delicious now i know eggs are involved i'm really charmed this looks up my street in a big way my favorite meal if it wasn't a little bit of it wasn't a Christmas dinner. It would be full English breakfast.

Full English. Yeah. There's something about ceremonial meals and the comfort and the reliability when you know what you're getting. Yeah.

Exactly. That I really enjoy. Yeah. So this is Honey & Coe from the new Honey and Co. Daily cookbook. Yeah, they're so good.

It's fried eggs with goat's cheese and peas done with Aleppo chili garlic, spring onions and basil. That is right up my street. You know, there's a restaurant, there's a cafe in Hagerston called Toapath.

Shout out to Claire Cole, who's one of the chefs there. Oh, I love Claire! Claire's one of the best. And every time I eat there, I'm like, this is top tier stuff. This is amazing. Should we now tell everyone where we really first met? Are we talking about the university? Yeah.

Oh my God. I feel like people don't know this story and it's really good. When I was at university, I had a job and I was working at the Students' Union reception doing like your little admin tasks, often mostly giving people their NUS extra card so they can get a discount in Topshop or giving them condoms so that they wouldn't accidentally get to the pregnancy.

University of Westminster. University of Westminster's Students' Union shout out. And at one point where we're booking our Freshers' Ball and somehow we got Jersey's number. How the fuck did you get my number? And I feel like I can't even really remember if you were like on like a conference call and we were all speaking to you, I know there was a girl called Jenny

but we were basically like we were like kids as well as we were like yeah like we'd love you to come and do this like freshest board thing like it's gonna be really really fun just like play a couple tracks we give you 10 grand or do this and I can't remember I obviously didn't do it

I don't think anyone was in from your team was interested in you doing it Because at the time, like, we were, we were punching above our weight. We were punching above our weight. I mean, I just love that someone gave you my number. I don't. You had a song at the time, which got renamed. It was called 110%.

Yeah. And it got renamed to, if you know. Oh, my God. God, you know everything. It was just one of my favorite songs ever. It's, I would actually say, no, that's not my favorite of your songs. But it's out there for me. Because that would be a bit depressing because that was on my first record.

Yeah, but that wouldn't be depressing because the first record was brilliant. Thank you, girl. I would say begin again is my favourite. Great. But yeah, we got Miss Dynamite instead. Oh, well, great booking. Great booking and actually probably got the party started more than I did.

She really did get the party started. But, you know, anyway, if I ever worked there again, there's 10 grand with your name on it. Did we finish your last supper? No. No. We've got starters in Maine. Christmas dinner.

any room for pudding? My favourite pudding, which I do think would go well after a Christmas dinner, is a really good chocolate mousse. Very plain, very simple, no trills or frills, no, nothing else, just. And I mean, I am that slight cliche of went to Paris once, went to Chezs Jean-New, had the chocolate mousse. And now I can't start thinking about it. I am ultimately underneath it all, have all the sort of culinary integrity of like a TikTok influencer. Truly, I'm just like, that is good. And I know why people take a photo of it all the time.

In fact, the last time... Conradictity, I've never heard that. The last time I went to Chezineau, they just brought us the whole part. They just brought us the whole... We've only got about two or three portions left and there was like a table of five of us. Brought the whole thing.

We all just sat there with spoons. Oh my God, amazing. Going round. Do you spend a lot of time in Paris? Yes. I really love Paris. Hello, you never tell us. No, no, I really like Paris to write in

because the Eurostar is cheap. If you book it in advance, it's quite cheap. There's a lovely little artist's residency hotel where I go where I get quite a cheap rate to go. Where's that? It's just by the... Oh my God, I keep... Montparnasse.

Okay. By the big tower near the Jardine de Luxembourg. Okay. And I love writing there because I'm away from London, I'm away from distractions. And because in Paris, they're a bit snobby, so they won't just let you get your laptop out anywhere.

You have to go to quite specific places to go and write. And there's a cafe on a barge in the north of Paris. It's called Water and Dreams. And it's like a barge meets library, meets cafe, meets co-working space. And you can just sit there on the water and write all day. I have to say it's one of my pet hates when you go in a cafe and people are sitting.

with one coffee and their laptops. And you can't even sit down. They, well, I'm not going to mention the cafe they do it. But I just glare at them and they've got, they're all plugged in. And they've got earphones on. Yeah, this is a co-working space, ma'am. Yeah, but a normal cafe or a restaurant. Maybe you should live in Paris, ma'am.

You should live in Paris because they bet they will not let you get your... I agree with them. Yeah. Just go home. I mean, I wonder... I was really enjoying his romantic story about being writing by the sense. Because they can't afford the heating. So they go somewhere where you're sitting working and not paying.

Maybe. That's something I would have done as a student, to be honest. But I just find it annoying. They take phone calls as well. Yeah, phone calls is a bit much if you're like in the main bit. Yeah, right. But no, Paris, because they don't allow it, you go to certain places. There's a place called Nuage, which is like a chapel that's been converted into a co-working space.

Sounds great. You go in in the morning, you pay 23 euros. And all day, coffee, food, they come around. Like, tatiflet, vatatatouille, right? Vatitoui. He's just saying all his best French words. Dukia, I need that. There's a little dog that runs around.

You can just stroke the dog for a bit. Everyone there, you can leave your laptop there. You can go for a walk around the Notre Dame because everyone's co-working. You get little lockers. So you pay 23 euros, which is what, 20 quid. And then you get everything included. Oh, mate.

It's great. There's also a lovely... Do you never work at home, Jack? I don't like working at home. Oh, wow. The only time I ever write at home is between the hours of 11pm and 4 a.m. I cannot write in the daytime. There's something about when everybody else is doing stuff,

I just can't sit right, I can't focus. What, you've got, FOMO? I get really bad FOMO, Lenny. I get FOMO, so I have to remove myself from the country or wait till everyone's asleep. Has anyone carried the tradition on Black Cab Driver? No, but I do have this. Oh, wow.

I've got a little black cab tattoo here. What happened to his cab? I think we just sold it. My mum started... They're worth a fortune. My mum is like, I want to just drive it round. She got done. Well, no, she didn't get done, but, you know,

it's inadvisable to pretend to be a cab driver. Unless you tell them how much you hate Saddik Khan. Yeah, that's the only... Everybody's universal cab driving. I hate him. But you know what? Every London cab driver hates every single mayor of London, irregardless of...

Yeah, they do. But like, I can remember my dad been, I hate Kelly Livingstone. I hate Boris Johnson. You're just like, yeah, they're just, anyone that comes in, you're like, oh. Jesse's going to do the Pud now. Can you cook? I cannot cook. And do you know what?

What do you mean you can't cook? I'm really bad. Can you read Jack? I can read. Then you can cook. I know, but, you know, I try to find some cookery lessons because at the start of the year I was like, I've got to be better than this because it is sort of just like, I can steam things, I can roast things relatively well

but I just, I'm quite dyspraxic, I'm quite useless with my hands. I spill everything. I'm genuinely chuffed and thrilled that I haven't made a complete idiot of myself eating those eggs on toast because I normally would have... No, but it was great. But I am, yeah, I'm just a bit useless

and anyway, I was looking for these cookery courses and they were all, they were known for beginners and the ones that were for like 14 year olds. Oh no, we went on. a cookery course. Jesse and I went to the Prue Leith School. Oh really? To learn how to make bread. Oh yes please. Do you have fun? Yeah it was great fun wasn't it? It was really good. I would like to, I think what I need to do, my kitchen at my house in London is not very nice. It's one of those old hobbs. It takes forever to heat up. You can't control it. Are you renting? Are you renting? Are you going to buy? I'm trapped there. I would love to buy, but you know, big boys was Channel 4. I've not made enough money to buy it. But, you know, but you know, big boys was Channel 4. I've not made enough money to buy it. But I don't know. Hopefully the next job, let's hope.

But that is my dream is to own someone with a kitchen that I'll actually be half decent at cooking. Now, for a split a second, I thought that was like mustard, but it's not, it's custard. Because it's got saffron in. Oh, really? That's made it very yellow. This is really exciting.

It is very exciting. So if we, if I... You're frying apricots. That's the normal thing you do with apricots, isn't it? Okay, great. And what would you have on your last supper, your drink of choice? My drink of choice, do you know what? I'm going to go, I'm going to go posh. Okay, go posh.

I would love a white port and tonic. Have you ever had a white port and tonic? I've never heard. White port and tonic. You've got to promise me that you'll have one this summer. I will do. It's a perfect summer drink. Where did you drink that first?

I drank it in, no, the first time I ever had one was in Gordon's Wine Bar by Embankment. Yeah, really, really fun. And they were like, have a white port and tonic. And I tried it, and I absolutely loved it. And now I see it's... Is it called anything? It's called just a white port and tonic. But it's really...

It's quite sweet. But then the tonic gives it a real kind of... It takes the edge of how sweet it is. But I think they also do it at Peckham levels. Oh, yeah? Oh, I've been there. I went to a party there two weeks ago. When are you going to Peckham?

I went to Clarence 80th at Peckham Levels. There was an 80th at Peckham Levels. They cordoned off a little bit of it. Really? Yeah, but it was an old car park though, wasn't it? Yeah. It does feel a bit like a car park. Yeah. They also do it at a lovely pub near me called The Lady Mild May.

I would genuinely recommend you have a white port and tonic. I think it's going to be the drink of the summer. Like Brat Summer. You're making it bright. It's white port and tonic. I think you need to come up with a good name for it. Why? Like Port-au-Prince.

Eleni. Oh. Oh. That is good. Yeah, that is good. So this is Helen Graham, who is a fantastic chef. She used to cook at Bubala. Have you ever been to Bubula?

No, but I've heard of it. So delicious, a vegetarian place. She's amazing. She's got a new cookbook out, and this is her apricots, hot apricots with cold saffron custard. Wow. Yeah. It's beautiful.

It looks beautiful as well. Oh, my God. This is really good. Helen, you're really talented. It took two goes at doing the bloody... It's the hot and cold thing. It's the hot and cold. It's really good.

Are you enjoying it, Lenny? Delicious, really delicious. I loved that. Oh, I love that. I could just literally go out. Boom. I don't really want you to go. Oh, well that's really sweet.

Yeah. I don't really want to go. Well, then maybe we just do this again sometime. You're such a wonderful guest, Jack. Oh, thank you so much for having me. Will you come to the tour? Yes, can we talk about this now? Yeah.

So the good grief that was debuted in Edinburgh, 10 years ago. 10 years ago. You are returning for your 10 year anniversary. Yeah. New material. So how I'm doing it is I'm going to do 20 minutes of brand new material. Yeah. Funny stand-up.

Yeah. Explain the context of the show. Then there's going to be an interval so everyone go back to the bar to get another white wine. Or a port-a-or-and-tonic. Or a port-a-or-or-oh, thank you very much, Porto and Tonic. And then... I'm going to perform the show for the hour in its entirety as it was performed back in 2015. Wow. Wow.

Which would be really fun. And it's... You get two different, like, you get two shows, two Jack, rook shows, yeah. You get new comedy and then the existing show. And then at the very end, I almost do a little bit like, so what have we learned? And I sort of take, I do a little bit from the present day as well. That is where I'm sort of outlining the fact that that show was written with all of these, arts bursaries and all this support and all this help and it has all gone. So it's a little

call to arms at the end to say how can we, I suppose, fill the gap of a lot of that funding that's lost and how can we ensure that young people are able to engage in storytelling and actually make it and be the story themselves because that I was really lucky that happened. And everything that's happened with big boys and winning two baffirs and all that lovely lovely stuff and the stuff I will hopefully do in the future has only come because. I managed to get all of that funding and all of that support. But it is a laugh. Where do you think you stand on visiting graves?

Do you, does your mum go and visit the grave? I mean, I know people who... Where do you stand on? No, no, not stand. What do you think about? It's a dreadful thing to say. No, but I... Like, Jewish people don't visit graves.

Right, okay. Because that's... They're not there. But you visit once a year out of respect. So you do visit graves? You only visit once a year. And you put a stone on. And you put a stone on to show that you've been.

It's kind of be like the knock knock. Yeah. We've been. And that's, we respect you. But lots of people go every week and we'll sit there and talk to the person and have a conversation and feel that they can still connect with them. Yeah. I think that's beautiful when they do. Do you?

It's not for me. But during COVID, when I was back home with my mum, I went and visited my dad's grave every day. Did you? whole time because it was that one mandatory walk that we got. And I don't know why. It just sort of felt like really, and I'd never been before. I hated it when I was a kid and he'd first died and people would go up there. I actually sort of really quite liked my dad's funeral because it was a really beautiful

celebration and there was like 500, 600 people there. He was amazing. And then he was cremated and then we had a separate funeral for his, you know, a little cremation, the stone setting. And that I hated and I was like, I'm never coming here again. And then during COVID, I went every day. And there was this woman who's a neighbour from a couple of streets down who at the same time as me went every single day to go visit her daughter.

And we just sort of became like, we just sort of smiled each other. We became kind of like little grief friends. I don't know really why I went so often. I think it was also because it's like my dad's in a lawn cemetery. It's quite beautiful to go to. And there was something about that maybe isolation that we all experienced where I was like, I weirdly cannot go and visit my friends. but I actually can go and sit here and just think about stuff and sort of talk things through.

Does he have a nice... Yeah, he does. It's really beautiful. It says Freebird on it, which is his favourite song by Leonard's Guild. Which we have in Big Boys and yeah, it's really, really sweet. And now I love going. I don't go all the time, but if I do go, I feel like I have a different relationship with it. I think that's the, like, really important thing that I try to tell people about grief is that it shifts and changes all the time.

The stuff that you find unbearably painful at the start subsides or changes or then becomes the thing you love becomes the most celebratory thing. I think that's sort of what Big Boys was about in a way because big boys does look at topics like suicide, which I think is really tricky and really difficult. And I had never watched anything where somebody who'd lost someone to suicide was able to sort of push past the injustice to still celebrate that person. And that to me is like the thing that I'm most proud of with big boys, that I think it is a space where people who've lost someone in that way can go,

oh, I can still celebrate the best times and the good things and the amazing facets of that person without it being, them being solely defined by their passing. And that's like, I think maybe just from being bereaved a couple of times, I don't know if I'll ever stop grieving, and that's sort of okay. I think that's sort of part of it. but that's why it's really nice doing that show again from 10 years ago and actually I think I might do good grief in another 10 years time do you know I think I might do it every 10 years in my life because you know there's more people that are going to pass away in my life and I think it's more more content but also I'm quite inspired by Lisa Kudra on the comeback where it's like let's bring this back every 10 years because you know grieving is a constant process and how I feel about it in another 10 years time might be completely different.

I sort of like checking in with that. It's not something that kind of comes and goes. It's always sort of with you. And if I can make that funny, which always has to be, my rule is make it funny. Because if something's funny, it becomes less scary and then it becomes sort of accessible. And I do really believe in talking about them.

And not in a morbid way, but I just think it makes it feel less isolatory, if that makes sense. I don't think isolatory is a word, but it is now. That is going to happen to everyone, isn't it? Exactly. Yeah. That's the first line of Big Boys from the pilot. The first episode is statistics show that one in every one people will eventually die.

And to me, I'm like, that's almost quite comforting to know in a weird way. Like, you know, make apricots, make hot apricots with cold custard. Because you're going to die one day. Yeah. So you might as well. Yeah, and have another bowl. And have another bowl. Fuck it.

Jack, thanks so much for being on. Oh, thank you for having you. Before we leave you, and you may have already answered this with the cheese and Liam Perrin. But is that a nostalgic taste that can transport you about somewhere happy or sad. Yes, and that is my t-shirt. Scampi fries takes me to that every pub that I used to go with my dad as a kid. They also did, like, cheese moments. Are they cold or hot?

They're cold. They're cold, they're like cold little kind of You get them in a packet They've got a bite They've got a pack They pack a punch Yeah they're so good You've never had a scampy fire

I've even heard of them I am going to send scampy fries to your house Jack Thank you for being on table manners Good luck with the tour Can't wait to see what else you produce And I can't wait to watch it You're brilliant

Can I say I think you two should also do a spin-off What's the spin-off? I think you should do a spin-off called Tableware What, like Tupperware? Like your surname. Yeah. But then you tried lots of different types of cutlery, tupperware, plates, crockery. Let's expand it from the food to the things we have out of the food.

It's just a merchandising opportunity. Yeah, absolutely I agree with you. We've already thought. With Henry Holland, he makes nice plates. We've always, a collab with Henry Holland. I always thought tableware was a good name. We also thought table wine could be good too. Oh, do you know what I mean?

We thought about it off. And you could even put an H in there. Because then it could we almost be like this table, wine? Whining. Wine you can whine to. Okay, let's just brainstorm a bit. Okay, cut the cameras. God, you must.

You should be working for bagel barter and hegart. You're madman. Could I say? I'm an opportunity. Thank you. Jack Rook, just the best guest. An absolute delight. So fun, so interesting.

Fabulous. Loved every second. I just think this, he's got. so many stories to tell that he's going to go on forever. I told him I predict he'll be the David Attenborough of Comedy. Okay. You know, still going at 100. Happy birthday, David Attenborough.

Loved it. Loved the pudding so much. And the eggs were great. This was like a really easy brunch meal to do for someone. So I'm just saying to you now, people, Honey and Co Daily. Great book. Helen Graham's.

So is it all vegetarian? Helen Graham's centrepieces, yeah. Bold vibrant recipes to put vegetables in the spotlight. But do you know what, Jessie, the cover of that book was the colour of your dessert. Yellow and orange. And the custard did set. It was delicious. My God, oh my God, I could drink that.

Yeah. Oh, have you got a lot left over? Not enough, Lenny. Okay. Not enough. Okay. Thank you to Jack for coming on the podcast. You can go and watch big boys three seasons of it on Channel 4

Or you can go and see him on his tour Which starts at Roundhouse and then goes to Edinburgh And he does a whole tour and he's amazing, good grief Celebrating its 10-year anniversary What are you doing for us today, Mum? I'm going to see if I have to have an operation On my bloody hip. Oh, look if you get some more podcasts in that.

Shush. We'll see you next week.