Table Manners with Jessie and Lennie Ware - James Norton

Episode Date: July 22, 2026

It’s the final episode of series 18, and what a RIDE it’s been! We’ve got the wonderful James Norton taking this season out with a bang! James popped over for a summer barbecue while taking a break from filming the upcoming Beatles biopic in Spain. We heard all about growing up in Yorkshire, his family’s love of outdoor swimming, his mum’s legendary pavlova, the process of filming House of the Dragon, navigating living with Type 1 diabetes, and why tuna pasta in white sauce will always be his ultimate comfort meal. Thank you James for a fabulous season finale, and thank you to everyone for tuning in to another mammoth series! We’ve still got lots to come through the summer, we’re diving into the archive to bring you exclusive YouTube episodes and of course our Second Helpings audio series will be all yours too. Have a gorgeous summer and we’ll see you for Series 19 very soon! You can catch James in House of the Dragon streaming now on HBO Max, and his new film Sunny Dancer is out on the 14th August. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello and welcome to Table Manners, which is our final for season 18. And what a season it's been just? I mean, we've had... Margo. Margo. Milala. Shaka Khan. Gloria Estefan. Started with Reese Witherspoon, went on to Gary Oldman. We thought it couldn't get any better, but it's got better and better the whole season. Thank you to everyone who has listened and watched this season.

It's clear to see. But we're tired. It's time for a break. It's time for Lenny to get to school. Scopoulos and have her six weeks in the sun. Yeah. And it's time for me to just get on with promoting my tour. So I'll see you in Scopoulos for a couple of weeks.

But we thought it would be fun to finish with a friend. I think a very good friend of yours, a rather intimate friend, darling, I would have said. The brilliant, very talented James Norton is coming on the podcast today. He's coming on to talk about many things. He's got loads of things going on. He's a villain in House of the Dragon. He's also in between filming. being Brian Epstein as the Beatles manager and the San Mendes like four parts.

And he's got film. One of the best gigs coming up, Hamlet. I mean, I'm interested to hear about whether it's every actor's dream to play Hamlet. He's also in a really beautiful new independent film called Sunny Dancer, which is with Bella Ramsey. And he plays a dad called Bob. So it's a really hot, hot, hot day. So I've decided to do a barbecue because we didn't want to have the oven on.

I've kind of taken lots of different recipes from different places. So I'm mad about this guy. Ben Lippitt has a book that's a big old bestseller called How I Cook. And it's really beautiful this book. And loads of people have recommended recipes. And I wanted to do something lamb on the barbecue.

And so he's got this really nice recipe that is cumin lamb kebabs, but it's got seshuan, peppercorns in there, soy. Are they coughed us? No. There's pieces of lamb on this. It's lamb shoulder and lamb rib. Oh, wow.

And I didn't realise how little meat you get from a lamb rib. And a lot of fact. So I did have to like DM him being like, am I doing this wrong? But he was like, no, just double it up. Anyway, it's been marinating, they're on skewers. That's going to go on the barbecue. I've done one of my favourite dips that I've been doing for ages, but I don't think I've done in the podcast.

John Gregory Smith from his cookbook. It's this schmaltzy corsette yogurt dip where you cook the great corsets, you put them in the oven and then you put them with the yogurt, dill, lemon. I've put a bit of garlic in there too and it's just delicious. So it's kind of, it's not as Azeiki at all.

It's a cogette yogurt dip, but it's delicious. So that's going to go. I've got some flatbreads, do some rice, and then I've done from Kitty Coles' book. Make More with Less. She's got this really good, look, I've used it a lot. Ricotta, charred corn and curried onions. Or is it a bit like that Mexican corn thing?

Kind of, but not. It does have lime on it and butter. And then I've done from Gilmela, who is a Dorset chef that's very famous for kind of outdoor cooking, open fire cooking. But Gilmela, you sign up to his website and you get different recipes. And he did this really delicious looking cucumber recipe that's with green chilies, spring onions, mint, coriander,

cucumbers that you let all the moisture out for about half an hour. And then you do it with a really beautiful vinaigrette. So we've got like the crunch, we've got some creaminess, we've got the spice of the lamb. Oh, yeah, and with the lamb, you do this sesame oil, rice wine vinegar, shredded cabbage. So I think we've got enough. The thing is I know about James. He likes a lot.

He's greedy, like me. Okay. So he did say when I said, have you got any dieteries? Bearing mind, he is diabetic? So I was like, you know, is there anything we should avoid? He was like, I just want lots. So I hope you've done lots. I hope I haven't undercated.

And what have you done for good? Pistachio strachella ice cream. So it's pistachio ice cream with shards of dark chocolate in it. James Norton coming up on Tableman. Cheers. Cheers. This is a select. Now, everyone now, I swear we should be sponsored.

by select. Tell me what you think. It's so delicious. Yeah, absolutely delicious. It's quite delicious. Yeah, I love it. Somewhere in between and like... An apparel spritts.

I was going to say a... What's the other... Campari? Yeah. Also, the olive. Thank you for the... Thank you for acknowledging that, James. How are you?

How's your morning been? What have you had for breakfast? My morning has been good. I woke up and did a little... Pea. Pellet. Oh yeah, PBD. Tell everyone what a PBD is. Peanut butter.

No. PBD, peanut butter dip. No, it's a pre-breakfast dip. Basically, I swim every morning before breakfast. I know it's very busy. Well, that's the good question. Outdoors? Yeah, kind of.

There's ponds. Okay. So, love a natural. A natural. Love a natural swim. My family, when we were growing up, wherever there was a body of water, if it was, you know,

the sea or a lake or river and we're in it. We're in. You're in. Seawater and you're in. Yeah. Like a dog. Yeah. Dog sea water and they run in.

I have been compared to like a sort of, yeah, sort of manic Labrador quite a lot. And it's always before breakfast. Rain or shine. Why? Oh. I just think it makes the breakfast taste. I'm Yorkshire though, aren't you? I am Yorkshire.

Yeah, you see. Sturdy. Yeah, but that would have been very cold in Yorkshire. I love being described as sturdy. Yeah, no, we didn't do it so much in Yorkshire. We do it on holiday more. Like when we go to. to Cornwall and places like that.

And it's just, it's become a tradition. With kids, I sort of loved it. And then teenagers, I hated it. My teenage years, it was always like, oh, I can't believe I'm from this family. And now I love it. And it does make my day. I just love the feeling. It's a whole community of outdoor swimmers, aren't you?

Yeah. And it's becoming a thing. Yeah. Do you think all the England team are having cold baths after? For sure. Yeah. Harry Stiles has a big ice bath after his, you know, marathon that he does on. We have one on set.

sometimes. Do you? You don't? Just got back from Barcelona and we had one in our unit base. Hang on, but you were doing night night shoots and were you running around as the manager Brian Epstein? Were you having to do lots of strenuous activity? I would have thought it would be more for like if you were

doing something like very active. Oh, I see. No, I wasn't doing strenuous activity. I mean the boys are doing certain of activity. They're on stage playing. I'm standing watching being sort of adoring. But once you stood on set for a long time, there's nothing better than getting into some ice, some cold water.

I would say nothing better getting into a really nice hotel bed. Yeah, well, both. Yeah, but then I sleep better if I've gone cold. I don't know, I'm reptiles. So you and all the Beatles are getting in the ice tub after a day of shooting? Or do you all kind of line up and wait? This was a unique situation because we were in Barcelona, but yeah, there was a nice bath and it was hot and we would do at the beginning of the day.

And then sometimes some people would do it at the end of the day. Did you encourage them all to do the PPD? PBD? Yeah, I went PBD in because it was the sea nearby, so I did a couple of PBDs. They, I was alone on my PBDs. Okay, fair enough. Moving on from Cold Water, family holidays in Cornwall. Who was around the dinner table growing up and what was very memorable dish from your childhood? I mean, if you're talking Cornwall, that's a very specific dinner table because you're talking a house which was probably, probably fit like 10.

But I had a very powerful and iconic grandmother called Granny Jean, and she had 12 grandchildren. And her greatest legacy, which actually I'm now so grateful for, is that she insisted that all of her four kids and their kids, which was the 12 grandchildren. We all went on a holiday, like, twice a year. And we still go on one big summer holiday every single year. And this was back in those days, she would hire this house in Cornwall. and it was, as I say, fit like 10. And we numbered at least like 24. So it was sort of, you know, three in a bed, top and tail,

sofas camping outside. And the table in the kitchen would fit 12 and we would be feeding 24. So there would just be like endless tables and, you know, random bits of wood kind of chairs. It was so fun, so chaotic. That's where the PBD thing really kicked off. And Granny Jean would be queen matriarch at the head of the table. Was she cooking? Probably not, no.

I think her children cook. Probably delegating, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I think so. I mean, it was always a bit of a who's going to cook tonight. There was always a bit of a hustle. But it was my, those are my summer holiday memories and so fun, like chaos. Well, now it's the Isle of White we go down there. But everyone gathers. And we all gather really because I think a lot of people are close to their cousins,

but we are very close. We're a big family. We all really stick together. I mean, they're almost sort of simplings in a way. And it's really because of Granny Jean. She just insisted that we all stuck together. and now she's no longer with us but she's very much

remembered in those in those big gatherings. Who's taken over the mantle of Granny Jean? Your mum or your dad? I think like every family, no there's no... Oh, in terms of my family, my mum's... It's so funny if I would say my mum's turned into Granny Jean.

I wonder what my mum would say about that. There's no matriarch within that. Like Granny Jean is still very much sort of the hallowed granny. But my mum... Yeah, my mum is... an amazing cook and an incredible host. So I love hosting. I love big dinner parties. I love big parties. I love big parties. I throw parties at my house a lot. And I, and my mum and dad is

definitely one of the things they've taught me. They're very good at it as well. I do. You love a party. I think they're very strong party people. I think we're generous hosts. Yeah. I mean, we've got one this weekend. Just your sons. I mean, guys, you're on series 18 of a podcast, which is all around hosting. Yeah. Yes, that's true. Okay, so what was a memorable dish that your mum would make when you were growing up? I mean, there were so many. She used to make this, like, tomato and anchovy quiche, which would be,

which would be, that would be made many times because that would be like any, any picnic. It feels very dealier. Yeah, wholesome. It sounds, maybe quite delia, 90s. Holsom. My sister's a very good cook. They both. Jessica.

Jesse, well done. Oh, is she a Jesse. No, she's Jesse. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very much, Jesse. they were all down yesterday, day before, for Wimbledon. Where did you go? Yeah.

He was in the Royal Box, Mum. How did you get an invite in the Royal Box, Jen? I can't remember how I got invited, but my parents are tennis nuts. They love it, my sister as well. And so at the end, a lot of the actors leave after like one or two of the sort of showy games. And on the day we were there for the first time with my mum, it was the women's quarters, I think. And all my mum's heroes were there, Virginia Wade and Billy Jean King. All sitting near her.

They were all around her. Oh, my God. So she was just like, couldn't believe it. And actually my proudest moment One of my proudest moments of my career was We were sitting like Three rows back And Billy Jing King was on the front row

And she turns around one of the games And she like points towards me and my mum And just goes, you You, like this in my mum And I just go Oh my God It turns out Billy Jean King is a massive fan of Granchester

So my mum's day like Couldn't believe that this icon is asking And then between When we went back to the sort of Champagne there. It's a bougie, boogey, roll box kind of thing where you basically just get plied

with champagne all day. Billy Jinking asked my mum to take a photo of me and Billy. Can you imagine my mum behind the camera going, this is insane? Yeah, it was sweet. So hosting, what would you cook for us if we were coming around to yours, James, for dinner?

Right now in the summer, which was daylight today, I would have a gas grill and a wood grill, so I would be lighting one of those, probably the gas. Because it's just easier. It's just easier.

But I've got a wood one and it's great. I love it. Have you got a Somerset grill? Somerset Grill? Yeah, it's called Somerset Grill. It's like a Nisado one. Oh, I don't know. I've just got a hole which to my builders put into my,

I've got like an outdoor kitchen, yeah. So I've got like a big beefy to gas. Then I've got like a kind of homemade sort of wood one, which we just basically plunk a big load of wood fire and then put a grill over it. It's got a ventilation and then a little sink. I love it. I love my outdoor kitchen. I cook on it all the time.

I have my mum and dad and sister down a week and I cook them a lovely shoulder of lamb on the barbie and so i would probably i would definitely have the barbecue lit and i would probably cook you something i mean like halibut steaks something light yeah i love halibut yeah i love fish on the barbie but yeah probably like halibut steaks with like some nice prawns and then i would do a wild right you know just rice i do a lot of like um i guess kind of mediterranean sort of sides so lots of obegene charred with tahini and yeah um lots of salads i over-cour cater. I never run. I have a weird fear about running out of food. I think maybe it's boarding school or just being a glutton.

What's it like at boarding school? That's a big question. And we could... Food. Oh, food. No, no, no. We could talk. I've spent 10 years talking to a therapist about it. It was good in some ways and challenging and others. And the food thing, I don't know whether or not. It's just having been part of a big family going to boarding school, but I definitely, I didn't matter you guys, but when I'm served in anywhere, restaurant, food, dinner, party, whatever, and there are two helpings,

and I'm having the same thing as someone else. You check how big theirs is. My brain will see the same size, or even mine being bigger, and I will immediately go, mine smaller, my smaller, my smaller. Me too. But I do that, and I do that all the time. What is that about?

It's greed. It's absolute greed. I'm always looking at, when they serve at a restaurant, I think, if theirs is as big of mine. Every single meal. I've ever had. Why is there as big a mind?

I will make sure yours is bigger today. I will make sure you have the biggest portion. Even if you do that, I will psychologically trick myself and go, Jesse and Lenny have got bigger helpings than me. And then I'll wait and go, maybe they won't eat all of it. And maybe I'll have the end. And, you know. Could you get seconds at boarding schools?

So if you were a big growing boy, could you have seconds if you were still hungry? I think so. I think there was food. I don't, yeah, I'm sure. I mean, you know, the good stuff has probably gone. I do remember, like, my one, my very, the junior school, I went, you were only allowed to toast your bread if you were a pre-elect. Oh, God, save.

Were you at boarding school at junior school? I went from 11. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just think I really love food. You have a big cut box that you're, yeah. Yeah, I just, I think it's also a big family. Like, you know, lots of cousins, lots of big, older cousins.

So everyone's fighting on the table to get stuck in. Yeah. And I just love food. I am a huge. I mean, people who know me do know one of the, I think if you asked a lot of them, the one of the things they would put at the top is an appetite. I have an appetite for food and just for everything. I think of myself as a relatively, you know, I feel like my mum and Dan in my life,

I've been still instilled with a relatively decent, like, moral compass. But when it comes to, like, if I'm going to a buffet and there's like, you know, with one bit of salmon and there are five people queuing, for some reason my moral compass throws out the window and I will take way more than I am Oh yeah

it's weird I don't know For some reason I feel you know It's become a menace buffet breakfast Even if you're not hungry You eat everything

that you can possibly eat Yeah Yeah Hotel buffet breakfast I know You feel that you've got to store it up For the whole day

Yeah yeah Yeah and then probably make a couple of rolls For lunch This is me doing What are we having carbs So we're having rice

It's the car Okay The carb is Rice and flatbreads Love it This is very for the type ones out there. As you know, this is not my phone.

I'm doing my insulin. And that is done. Is it just the carbs you need to do? No, that's good. That's good. So you've got a little thing on your arm. That's like, yeah. How many, do you have to change it every week?

That changed every three days. So you've told me that we're having dessert? Yes. Great. Okay, I'll top up. You need to put that in now. Then I'll top up in a bit. Oh God, almighty.

I'll just put in the amount of carbs for having. Do you think there's been enough, progress in addressing type 1 diabetes. Huge. Yeah. You just ran the marathon. Yeah. Yeah.

Which made me laugh so much because we came to support you. I know and I couldn't see you. No, but it was so funny when you were like, everyone is shouting my fucking name and we're like, James! But you're like, tell me, like, tell mum about like what the end bit

was like. Because I got a chest infection the day before. Horrible. And because the first, I thought I was going to have to pull out and then I thought, do you know what? I'm going to do it? Because I had all these...

Because you're doing it for diabetes. I had every type 1 diabetic child in the country giving me all their pocket money. Oh God, Almighty. There was no way I was going to pull out. And so I was doing the marathon. And then every time I... Because everyone had me on their tracker. So every time I turned the corner, I'd be like, everyone went,

Chev. Not everyone, but quite enough people like, because they'd see where I was. Yeah, you could have Cynthia Areva on the tracker. You can have James Norton. You could have Clara, Ampho, like, and your friends. Like, I mean, so we all had off... You had me on.

But every time I came around the corner, Everyone would be like, James, James, James! And then they would see me because basically halfway around this chest infection, which was really serious. You felt, I just felt wretched. You must have felt so shit. I thought it was going to collapse. And so everyone would like, James, James, and then they would go, James, James, James. Oh, God, are you all right?

And I was sort of, and I was trying not to collapse. I mean, my legs were buckling and stuff. Oh, what is that? Shane. It's a delivery of some sorts. So, but the end, just tell me what it's like. Tell me what it was like at the end, the way you described it. What did I happen?

jumping over bodies that were like passing out. Literally, it's like a war zone. There are people kind of, because it was so hot. Yeah, and they're being tended to by paramedics. And my legs are buckling. I'm just thinking, please get to the end. And I'm seeing these bodies just going, this is fucking her.

It was actually hell. Did you have anyone running with you that kept you going? No, I mean, I got to the end and it was fine. And the most important thing was that, you know, did it for the diabetes. Did it for breakthrough T1D, which is a charity for kids with diabetes. And actually, in answer your question,

there is incredible advances because a lot of people in America and there's a lot of money and resources being pushed into it. And I think we're getting closer. So what's your hope for type? My hope is within like 10, 15 years we won't be administering insulin.

I mean, there's so many different versions of a sort of cure, but I think we're close. I mean, obviously we're close than we've ever been, but actually suddenly within the diabeticta community, people are like, oh, maybe it actually is getting quite close. So raising money is really important. So we're at that final. push. I mean, it is, it's really weird condition because, you know, it's quite hidden. People

don't really know that I'm... When did you get it? 21. 22. Yeah. And apart from these things, I've got this sensor here and I've got this pump here. But other than that, people don't really know. And then suddenly something will happen like I'll have a hypo or, and you know, I need to stop filming because I need to eat. Do you carry a snack around with you? Oh, yeah. I've got dextro tablets, naked bars. Okay. Yeah. And can you have a hyper on a hypo? Go high or low, yeah. Yeah. And what happens with the other one? High is not dangerous in the short term. Low is dangerous. Does it change your personality?

It does. When I go low, it's complicated. Eating at restaurants is complicated because you have to time your insulin. So, you know, we just discuss when I'm going to do my insulin. You have to time and hope that the food's going to arrive in time. And if it doesn't, you can be in a restaurant. How long have you ever been that guy that's like, guys, I really need to eat my dinner now. Where is it?

Oh, yeah. I've had some mad ones. I was at a GQ event once and I arrived. It was a sort of fashiony thing. And I put my insulin in thinking that we were going to have some bread with starter and the starter arrived and it was this little bit of trout, smoked trout, with no carbs. And I was on the high table and it was, and they were honoring Jude Law and Nicole Kibman and all these people. And there were speeches after the starter. So I was sitting there,

having done my incident, having eaten this trout, going, I've got 10 minutes before I start to faint, basically. And I couldn't interrupt the speeches because I was sitting on the high table. So I eventually started sweating and like, you know, you get really wobbly. You like eventually will faint. So I walked over, I actually brought, I'm so, I'm sorry, Jude. I'm sorry. I just going to go. Went over to the back, to the lady that was standing behind my table saying, I'm a diabetic. I need some food, like, quickly.

So she gave me a chocolate bar and some juice, and I thought I was okay. Went back, sat back down. What I didn't realize was that pandemonium had broken out backstage. And they were like, James Norton's about to, you know, have a hypo. We need to. So in the middle of Nicole Kidman's speech, someone randomly brings me a steaming plate of potatoes. Oh, God. And it basically looked like I was like, this is bullshit.

James is hungry. Give him some potatoes. What do you keep in your fridge always, then? Juice, yeah. It's juice very good for you. Anything sugary. Okay. We need to get onto your last supper.

My last supper. Yeah, so we've got starter main, pud, drink of choice. Oh my gosh, starter. This is like, oh God. Oh, it's like off menu, isn't it? Yeah, you're going to have to change it up for us, please. Starter something like, I was going to go lobster beast on off menu, so I'd go lobster. You didn't, though.

I didn't. I went for an asparagus. You went oysters. I think I love fish. I would probably go something like, I love anything which can make use of the bread. So anything like a beast or a soup, something which my mum would make a lot with celery soup. And I would just cover it with cheddar cheese. Oh, yum.

And like big crusty bread and just make it this big mush. And, you know, I remember like that was very comfort. Is that one of her best dishes? Oh, no. My mom's a good cook. Like we would do, you know, big roasts. My sister's a great cook. My dad, we're a family of foodies.

What was your birthday meal? Did you go out for dinner or did your mum make you lasagna or something? My mum, my birthday meal. I mean, my mum worked a lot. Does she do? She was a nurse and then she taught nurses medical ethics. She did a PhD in medical ethics and philosophy. How interesting.

An allocation of healthcare resources. So when she was working, my birthday cake was often like a slab of ice cream. with a packet of smarties. And I was thrilled. You didn't mind. I was great, yeah. Because, you know, she was a busy working mum as my dad worked as well. She had some, like, staple dishes.

Like her pavilova is quite famous. Is it? Yeah, when I was at school, James Norton's mum's Pavolova became quite a thing. What's her topping? I don't know why. Strawberries, raspberries, blueberries, yeah. Was it chewy pavlova? I mean, it was like fluff.

Her meringue is unparalleled. I think there are queens of marines. She's a queen. Actually. Yeah, yeah. She, certain things, she just is,

there's no one better. I'm so relieved. I didn't make her Pavlova today. Yeah, thank you. We didn't do that, then. Yeah.

My mum's Pavlov, for some reason, you know, like, you know how boys get? They find things to sort of tease and play with.

For some reason, my, it was never specified why James's mum's Pavlova felt naughty, but it would be talked about all the time. Where?

At school. Oh, God. Like James, she brought Pavlover No, it was just like, there was something about it which sounded naughty, like mum's Pavlov. I don't know what it was. She also made the name, maybe. Made a great chocolate roulette.

I grew up in a house. You know, she grows her own vegetables. She was obsessed with her runner beans. Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah. Very lucky. Do you celebrate Christmas altogether? Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. Very big, big Christmas. And also because of Granny Jean, God, I'm really going down the Norton family history, aren't I? Yeah. You know, that's my dad's side. My mum's side has lots of cousins and aunts and uncles. So everyone comes together. It's huge.

Yeah, yeah. So what's your main course if you've had lobster bists to start? I mean, it's boring because I've just talked about halibut steaks, but I would probably do something like some grilled fish, something like a big bass or something like lovely, something simple. I mean, ingredients, delicious, delicious, or like a boulebeys or something fishy.

I think, more and more I'm veering away from meat. I mean, a roast chicken can't go wrong. I love it. I love it. Nothing better. Like stuffing or, we were talking about bread sauce the other day. Bread sauce, we grew up on bread sauce. A Yorkshireman and, yeah.

But do you have it with every roast chicken or just at Christmas or we tend not to have it. Oh, okay. I think I need to up my game. We have it with, we have, yeah, red sauce with every chicken. Yorkshire puddings. Yeah, I mean, we have a lot. We have a lot. And also, because I grew up in Yorkshire,

so when I would come back from school, sometimes my mum and dad would be working, and we would go to this amazing lady called Liz, who lived in the village, and we'd have our roast, and then she'd always make extra gravy, and then we'd have a slice of white bread on our... So you could...

And then the extra gravy would go... Just pour it. Heaven. So it would just be the most delicious gravy with a slice of white bread, and that would... There's a name for it in Yorkshire. I can't know what it's called, but yeah, that's...

You could have had a Yorkshire pudding. You could. James, let's talk about House of the Dragon. Yes. Wow. So I just got to episode three. Right. And you've like, the end of the episode three, it's like, okay, we understand who we're dealing with that.

So it kicks off for me from... Everyone's, yeah, everyone's like, are you in this? Four onwards, and then my storyline suddenly really kicks off, yeah. And he They're sort of I'm pitched as the You know The main antagonist for an era

I'm the thorn in her side From from now on Which is quite exciting Have you done other kind of fantasy No I've never done anything like this actually And it's a interesting experience Because I'm very aware of the weight

The scale of this You know I've never been in so many memes So Oh yeah It's mad So But I What I wondered about, obviously there's a lot of AI involved

because there aren't real dragons everywhere. How do you manage that as an actor? There's some. I've got to say, in the world of AI, I feel like shows like House the Dragon really are, they stand for something important because so much of what you see is actually real. I mean, the studio...

The dragons. The dragons know. But the dragons, even the heads of the dragons are real. So when you see the dragon, what we see as actors is about three people all dressed in blue, like the blue man group, head to toe in blue. They're folding these big sticks and they have the dragon's head on it and they have the wings as well on sticks. And so they move. They're like puppeteers.

That's how interesting. And they move. And so what you're watching is a single head moving like the dragon with the wings. And then the body isn't there. And then behind them is this enormous blue. screen and then later on special effects but it's not AI I mean

there will be AI involved I don't know what you call it what's the thing the other CG are I don't know it'll be CJR yeah yeah yeah god that's just your plate my my neck's a bit small

okay so we have Zeshwan lamb shoulder and lamb rib oh my you can take two James no I'll take one to start with I can't do it Let's do it.

After the chat, you should. But you didn't even take the biggest. No, but this is fine. This is huge. It's so much food. Oh, mate, you can't take that one. That's great. And then we're doing it with so it's, um...

My God, this is amazing. And this is with like a lovely cucumber salad. I shouldn't go first. Go on, Lenny. No, no, no, you keep going. You keep going. You keep going, yeah. Curried corn and ricotta.

And then you've got like a corsette. Oh my gosh. And some things. Yeah, just knock yourself out. Do you guys compete when it's at one of another's house? No. Mum's done food. Mum's done putt.

Yeah. Oh my God. That's good enough. It's Ben Lippett's recipe on how I cook. In his book, How I Cook. Also, shout out to Sam, who cooked it. I know. It's sweet, Sam.

Hoping for a kebab, I should think. Thanks, Jessie, but also. Good, darling. Yeah. Okay, so. So, yeah, how's talking about it. I was saying the mad thing about it is in the world of AI. It is really humbling and encouraging to be on a set where the detail

the people who are involved in that show, they both love it, thank you. It's incredible, basically. The studio builds are vast and so detailed. I mean, everything, like my sword, the armour, it was all so intricate, and there was like teams of people who made my sword, you know, for months. There's a blacksmith on set.

They have people, they have a matter. They have a little... They have an old-fashioned blacksmith. Fashioning the metal. I haven't even got this. What's this? I have a multi-y yogurt, courgette yoghuget thing.

Guys, this is great. This shit's on off menu, is there enough for you, darling? Is there enough for you? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, thank you. Listen, I'm not saying anything. We have lots of respect for Ed Gamble and James Icaste. And we still need to have Jane John.

There's no, nothing like this, yeah. Okay, I've got everything. He was worrying for a moment. It's okay because I served myself. I was able to give huge helping. Anyway, it's been a great show. And also, you know, it's just coming out now, but witnessing and experiencing the, like,

the global kind of reach of it is mad. It's been a mad experience. I've never been in something so, so sort of huge. Let's talk about sunny dancer that's coming out. Bella Ramsey, Jessica Gunning, Earl Cave, who is fantastic. Isn't he? I haven't seen him in anything before. So good.

He's such a nice guy. He's a star. Sweet boy. Looks amazing. Yeah. Sweet guy. They're also, I mean, Neil Patrick. Neil Patrick Harris.

He and I, yeah, I really did jump a generation on this film because... Yeah, you're playing a dad. I'm playing a dad. A teen dad. Of a 17-year-old. I mean, Bella is 21. They're so young.

Yeah, they're 21, but they're playing a 17-year-old. So at least I'm playing the father of 17-year-old. But it was a bit scary when my agent called up and said, so there's an offer come through, you aren't going to be playing Bella Ramsey's dad. And I suddenly thought, fuck, like that's a big generation shift. But you just knew you were a young dad, dad. anyway. Thanks.

Well, there's a reference to it in the film as well. Young dad, young dad, young dad. My business partner, she has coined my current casting as my sad dad era. I guess because you did your ITV thing as well, didn't you?

And they were special and, yeah. Well, can we just talk, we will talk about Sunday dance, so it's really beautiful. It's an independent film by George Jack. George Jakes, yeah. George Jakes, and it's about,

well, you can say if you want to. It's about a young girl who has had cancer and she is recovering and her parents send her on a kind of cancer camp so for kids who have had cancer. Because she's kind of removing herself a bit

and they're worried about her. She's kind of traumatised by the experience and they... And angry. As you'd expect, you know, she's a 17 year old who's kind of had adolescent stolen from them and anyways, she's very reluctant to go to this camp but she goes on the advice of her parents

Jessica Gunning and I play her parents and it's a very heartwarming, very important film about, about, you know, kids with cancer, people immediately sort of hear that and go, God, you know, that sounds terrifyingly sad. And George, the brilliant director and writer of this, he's only about 24 himself, it's terrifying how young he is, I know. Oh, wow. He wrote it and directed, yeah, he's kind of a...

Did he have... No, no, no, no, no, no. No, no, no. No. but he it's just very it's just not what you expect in terms of the pitch

you think God it's gonna be really really sad and actually it's incredibly heartwarming and very funny and some really brilliant new stars as well and I don't feel like that's and sisters

get such a big moment in it huge moment I like the one by the lake the lake it was beautiful that was shot really beautifully too and your bit in the car Bob mine and Jessica's contribution

is small but I'm very proud be a part of it. Where did we get to on our last supper? Oh my gosh. We've got mum's fablova. We've got some halibut steaks. What's your drink of choice?

My drink of choice of the meal is white. It has to be lovely. Yeah, but what wine are we having? Oh my gosh. I'm not good with wine. I'm not going to be able to give you... But if you eat fish, do you have white wine? Or something like crisp and light.

I mean, I love a natural wine. Probably the wine drinkers. You roll your eyes. I hate that. Thank you so much. You used to love it. No, I like a pet nap. I can't do natural.

Something a little with Frisante. I don't have like a list of favourite wines. Can I just ask just now you're eating? Do you have to check things on your phone to see how you are? It will beep if I go high or low. Okay, and then what do you do? Well then I'll add something. So for example, if we're about to have pudding.

Yeah, we are actually. And we've had a bit of more bread than I thought. So now I'm going to put a bit more insulin in. We're going to tell my thing to tell this. Oh my goodness. to put a bit more. So the pudding is, what? It's ice cream.

pistachio ice cream. Fantastic. Fabulous. Also, this is just something, note to those people who ask, please don't ask a diabetic if they can eat sugar because it drives us mad.

I mean, I can eat sugar. All I need to do is just tell my device that I'm about to eat sugar. And then I'm happy. I think I did ask you if you to eat sugar. It's fine. Yeah, I didn't know that. It's fine.

Because I think, if you're not type one, you probably can't then. It's hard if you're type two. Yeah. If you're balancing it with diet, then you have to be more mindful. but I very much can eat ice cream. It's a lot when I'm trying to do an interview.

This is delicious, by the way. I'm thrilled to be eating this delicious food. I feel sad that you didn't get to do seconds. I thought maybe you were going to go for the next cab. Do you need to do my little box? No, I think he'll be fine. I'm sure he's going to the Corinthia for a press junket, and I think he'll be okay.

Okay, so you're doing Hamlet, you're doing the beaters film, and you're on this kind of big, long period of filming. What is Rabbit Track doing? Rabbit Track is doing... Your production company? My production company is doing a lot. I have an amazing business partner called Kitty Kuletsky, who I've been working with in our five, six years.

How did you meet? We met in L.A., and I got this opportunity to set this company up, and I called her and said, listen, do you know anyone in London who might want to run the company with me knowing that she was in the kind of producer world? And she sort of gave me a few names, and at the end, because she was living in L.A. at the time, and I knew that there was no one better than her.

She was running a TV department. She's, I mean, have you met Kitty? No. She's incredible. I mean, genuinely, like, I'm in awe of her daily. And she keeps me on my toes and she challenges me. Talk about getting out of your comfort zone. I mean, this has been a whole, like, just learning how to do a new career.

And Kitty's been my sort of guide through it. But at the end of the call, I was like, maybe if, you know, you wanted to do it, that would be great. Put the phone down, planted the seed. And then she called me a few weeks later and saying, actually, I am looking for a reason to come home. And so that was it. We were then building a company together. We set up in 2019 just before the pandemic. And it's been amazing.

It's been a complete, mad, challenging, beautiful sort of journey. We've made two shows, King and Conquer and Playing Nice. There was a beat, was it your beat? That's my instant finishing. It's all good. Okay, fun. Does it meet? Are there different bleeps?

That's a healthy beat. Okay. That's a, we're on the right track beat. It's all right there. I don't think we've, oh, we've had Estyheim on. Did she make such a song and dance about it? No. She's quite cool about it.

I think you're quite cool about it. having diabetes. Yeah, I think you're quite cool. She's cool. I think anyone that's called diabetes is pretty fucking cool. Yeah, I agree. I genuinely, you don't meet a bad diabetic. I'm just saying, type ones are all pretty cool. Yeah, I don't know what it is.

Maybe it's because like whenever I meet one, if I see them on the street, I'm like, yes, we have a kind of lovely camaraderie. So what, if you see, see them with their bit, you'll kind of be like a... Do you know the bane of my life for a period of Zoe? Oh. Is it complete through me out of... Oh, those people that were trying to see what their blood sugar. Oh, you don't have diabetes.

You just have... So you'd be like embracing these health faddy... Yeah, I'd be like, hey! And they go, what are you doing? I'm like, you're not a type one? What is it type one? And they would just go, no, I'm just trying to get my gut by him right. Oh, yeah, they all had those things on their arm, didn't they?

They still do sometimes. But you've got a really exciting film in production with Owen Cooper. Like you've got the cast, mum, your favourite, from the bear? Yeah. Ebon, Mossbacrat. Who? Ebbled Mossbac. Oh my God.

Cuzz. Sexy Cuzz. He's fabulous. Have you watched the bear this season? Not this season, but love. Oh, I love it. Can I just say it's the best season? Is it?

It's as good as number one. Love it. It's almost better because it's so enchanting. He's in his new film. You're so lucky. So it's cool. I mean, again, Kitty, I have to say, I'm taking more we back to see on this one.

What's really wonderful, we're shooting a film called Fox Finder in Bavaria in the summer in August. We're about to go into production. I've very much taken a back seat on this one because it's the first project we've made which I'm not in and that's a really big step for us because it's validating us as a company we always wanted to make the first few shows

with me in them gives the bit of a supercharge to the company but now we were never one of those vanity projects just making stuff for me and Kitty is too good a producer just to make shows and films for like you know a me English guy so yeah this is as you say I'm on

Tessair's cool really cool Do you prefer playing baddies or goodies? Because thicker is very different from a horrible, nasty criminal. Yeah, I mean, I think for me it's all about just keeping it new and fresh. And also I think probably in a way, like the roles really are the sort of the need of. My favourite role is one which splits the audience. And, you know, you have people on the sofa at home going, is he good, is he bad? And you want people kind of going, I mean, Tommy from Happy Valley,

although he was clearly a baddie, but there was a lot of vulnerability. No, that at the end. You know what I mean? You saw it all. So that's the dream is where you can play with people's preconceptions about someone. Is it work, Jess? Is it homemade ice cream?

Yeah. Oh, my God. Guys, this is the best podcast ever. Josh, that was... Delicious. Absolutely delicious. Good. Thank you.

I'm now quite intimidated to have you at my house. No, don't be. Lelie, yours is. very upright. I know. I like an arrette one, Jay. It's nice. Mom, I've already started, but what is the pudding?

It's pistachio ice cream with chocolate strata. But we have to shout Alexandra Dudley on Instagram. I saw this. I said, Mom, can you make it? This is delicious. This is very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very good. No churn? No churn.

No chum. This is really good. That's chocolate. That, what percent is that? Like, 90? 80. 18? 18. So good.

But actually. You need it. No. Otherwise, it had been too sweet. I hope you're not going to start bleeping. No, no, it's great. Also, I'm an addict of dark chocolate. I mean, I have dark chocolate in my bag all the time.

I was 85 to 90%. This is heaven. Whilst you finish up your pistachio ice cream, can you give us a nostalgic taste that can transport you back somewhere happy or sad? Oh my gosh, that's a really interesting one. Okay, so... Oh, I mean, this has transformed me somewhere so good.

Oh, good. Oh, my God. I think if I'm going deep nostalgia to my childhood there was a dish my mum made which is actually quite in hindsight it's actually a bit gross if I describe it it's like a it was like a tuna fish and white sauce

it was like a couple of cans of tuna fish with sweet corn and a white sauce and onion so just very simple like onions basically onions chuna white sauce and basically and very simple but for some reason as a child I absolutely loved it

And it became comfort food. And then when you go away to school and you come back and all you want is that thing. The tuna in the white sauce. Did you have it with pasta? Yeah. Okay, it was a pasta. A white sauce, yeah. In describing it, I'm realizing I haven't had it for decades.

But for a long time, it was, yeah, it was like the food which I associated with home and my mom. And whether or not I loved the flavor, which I did, but it became more than that. It became, yeah, my tuna fish and white sauce. Which I haven't had for decades. Would you make it for your children? I would. Yeah. I will.

You will. Hopefully. One day. James Norton, thank you very much for coming on the podcast. I've loved it. This has been wonderful. Oh, good. Thank you.

Best dinner party ever. James Norton on Tablemanor. He's rushed off to a junket, and I can't speak, because I don't know if I'm dehydrated, or that select spritz just took me over the edge. Maybe both.

Maybe, darling. That ice cream. Did you like it? That was delicious. Good. Alexandra Dudley, your no churn, pistachio,

dark chocolate, strachitella, was delicious. And I'm thrilled that we have so much more left. Also, Ben Lipit, those Setschuan lamb rib.

Did you like them? Were they too spicy? But you put cheeky chilies in the cucumber salad? With little green chilies. Yes, sorry, darling. I was picking them out. So you've got a bone to pick with Ben Lippet and Gil Mella.

Yeah, just a bit spicy for me, but delicious. You loved Kitty Coles' curried corn, racquet. It's such a good side. God, we've done every me. John Gregory Smith with the schmaltzy yogurt, yogette dip. I mean, we've been everywhere. I am really hot and I'm a bit tired. But James is...

And he's really hot. He is... In every sense of the word. Oh, yeah. He's a lovely, excellent guest. He's welcome any time. Very well-mannered. Very well-mannered.

He ate his food, loved it. Gorgeous, soothing voice. Yes. Went with the selector. Are you drunk? I'm dehydrated, I think. You can watch James Norton in House of the Dragon now. You can go and see...

sunny dancer, or you can go and watch Nowhere Special on ITVX, or you can go and, you know, watch reruns of Happy Valley. And Grandchester. And also the tuna with white sores. I know. It sounded revolting. It did. I didn't want to say anything and burst his bubble.

But that sounded, I thought, well. No, I can imagine it being kind of comforting. For a little boy, yeah. Anyway, I can't speak. And on that note, we thank you for a wonderful. for season 18. But whilst we are finishing this season, we will be on your airwaves

and actually on YouTube with never-before-seen footage of previous episodes when we weren't on YouTube. So it's the Table Manor's Picky Bits. Yeah, Table Man as Picky-Bets. And you can watch episodes of guests that we filmed,

but it may not be as HD as we are now. However, it's never-before-seen footage. You can see how Zoe's sales Dana enjoyed those cookies. You can see how hot Will Poulter was throughout the episode. You can see one of our biggest episodes ever, James Corden and Ruth Jones, talking about Gavin and Stacey's Christmas special episode. That's on the video too. So we've got everything for you. And we'll be doing that over the summer and then we'll be back with new Tablemanors season 19 in the autumn. Thank you to everyone who's given us their time. Thank you to all of you for listening

and watching, and thanks Lenny for carrying on doing it. What do you mean? Do you enjoy it still? Of course I do. Oh, okay, for you. Can we get a season 19? I think so. I think I've got a couple more seasons in me.

Oh, don't say that. Okay, yeah. I did ask the dentist this morning how long my teeth might last. I said I want at least 20 years out of them. And what did he say? He said, you'll be all right. Mom had her teeth done this morning. New veneers?

No, proud. Oh, because the veneers came off all the time. Yeah, they look good. Thank you, David Guy. Thank you to Lenny's new teeth. We'll see you next season and... Have a gorgeous summer. Yeah, have a gorgeous summer.