Table Manners with Jessie and Lennie Ware - Louis Theroux

Episode Date: January 22, 2025

We have documentary legend, Louis Theroux joining us for dinner this week. After getting a puncture on his bike cycling round to Clapham, we sat down for a 3 course dinner served up by mum which included her famous chicken soup. We heard all about when he lived in a brothel, his love of spaghetti hoops and evolving from fussy eating, being born in Singapore, getting a first class degree at Oxford, working with porn stars and we discover his first job was working for a glass blower in Boston! We’re pleased to report that Louis has now fixed his bike and had it fully serviced - looking forward to seeing you out on the roads - or just come by for another glass of wine Louis! Season 4 of The Louis Theroux Podcast is available everywhere now. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello and welcome to Table Manners, I'm Jessie Webb and I'm here with my mum Lenny, we're in Clapham. Yeah. And we are very excited about this guest. So excited. Now we're doing this on a Friday night, which is Lenny's favourite time to podcast. Have a little drink. Have a little drink.

I'm really excited about this guest, but I am slightly nervous. We're about to be faced with one of the best interviewers ever. He's brilliant and I feel like we're really going to have to learn how to master the interview in front of Louis Giroud tonight. Well, he's the master of the interview. Yes, he is. Yeah. And you know what he does, mum?

What, darling? He lets the person speak. That will be novel for us. Spook yourself, lady. Okay, I'll try my best. So he enjoys the silence. So we're going to try and out-silence him. It's basically a silent retreat. You and me looking at him not speaking.

We'll see who gives him first. It's like, don't blink. Yeah. Yeah. I give us three seconds. But you don't blink. Yeah. Yeah. I Give us Three seconds, but you don't like silences darling. Maybe they do make me nervous. I don't mind silences Hmm I think you'll find we'll find okay. Let's find out. Let's talk to Louie about it. We'll ask Louie about silences Louie has

done Document, movies. He's now viral TikTok star with, my money don't jiggle, jiggle. And he is now a podcaster, which he started a podcast in lockdown. And now he is over at Spotify with the Louis Theroux podcast. Okay. And we're very excited to have him.

Very. He gets people to speak and say stuff and make fools of themselves and they don't even know they're doing it. But I don't know if that's his full intent, main intention, but I am intrigued by his... He's got that ingenue, hasn't he? He kind of looks at you like, oh you're voting for Donald Trump. Yeah, what would that be? And he, they kind of explain themselves. So you're right, less is more I think with him. Not like you with the, um, the guy that was reading the Boris Johnson memoir on holiday.

And what did you say to him mum? I said, oh he must have been the only person who bought that book. And what did you say? It mom? I said oh he must have been the only person who bought that book. And what did you say it was in clear? I said was it in clearance? So Lenny and Louis have very different interviewing methods and we'll see how that goes tonight. I was telling him he was an idiot. Lambasting him. So yeah Louis Theroux is coming up and mum's cooked. However, as we went to this charity lunch today, we have brought in some help. Now we don't do this. I don't think we've done this ever or well, actually I tell a lie, we have done this once before. But we are thanking lovely Johnny. Johnny, my friend.

Who is a vegetarian. Yeah. Because apparently Louis Theroux Who is a vegetarian. Yeah. Because apparently Louis Theroux likes eating vegetarian food. So what are we starting with mum? Chicken soup and matzo balls. But he does eat meat, that's what I was told. He just prefers eating vegetables. He tries to eat more vegetables. Okay. But I think chicken soup is so clear it's hardly eating meat, is it? No, it's not, of course. So we're starting with chicken soup, a matzo ball, challah bread, and then we've got... It's Friday night, do you want to do the candles?

Sure, why not? So we've got a vegetable tart, which is delicious, a filo pastry, and it's got a base of pine nuts and parsley, which is delicious. And then I've done little gem lettuce with buttermilk and anchovy dressing and a bit of garlic. A bit? Yeah, a little bit. It's like living, like it's infiltrating my mouth. I'll tell him, yeah, okay.

And then I've also done a radicchio with onion petals. Radicchio just makes me, it's such a funny word, isn't it? It's lovely, it's radicchio. Don't be radicchio, don't be radicchio just makes me, it's such a funny word isn't it? It's lovely. Don't be radicchio, don't be radicchio. So it's radicchio with onion, petals, walnuts, and blue cheese. As inspired by Saffis in Los Angeles.

Sounds delicious. And what's for pud? A cardamom and fig pavlova. And there is rose water and cardamom in the actual meringue and also I've booked the figs with some cardamom as well. Plenty! Eight game! I've tried my best.

Welcome Louis Theroux, you've just had a puncture, you were cycling... Nearly punch up, that would have been more exciting. You just had a punch up. You crossed paths with some leery youth. Do you get road rage? Or what kind of cyclist are you? Oh. Do you bang on the roofs of cars if they cut you up? I'd like to think...

You aggressively dingle your bell. I'm not... I'm a bit of an amber gambler. Oh. Is that a thing? I love that. Have you ever heard that? No. Amber gambler, me. That doesn't make a cycling slightly, I guess, more racy and sexy, doesn't it?

You know, you figure because you're not burning fossil fuels and you're there peddling away and it's quite tiring and if it's a, you know, what's the word, like a fine margin, then you think well I'll nip over even though it's turning or you know I'll do the crossing even though it's gone orange or maybe even just gone red, which is not ideal. But I don't think I'm aggressive, you know there's a lot of tribalism on the road between the cyclists and the drivers. How do you feel about line bikers? Well I look I don't they don't pay my bills but nevertheless I have I got here on a line bike because

I got because of the puncture. Now look are you a veggie? No. Right. I do eat vegetables. You like vegetables. Okay so I have made chicken soup with matzo balls because it's my favorite thing to make. That's a nice wine too. Yeah it's lovely isn't it? Right, you like vegetables. I'm flexitarian. Okay, so I have made chicken soup with matzo balls, because it's my favourite thing to make. Delicious. That's a nice wine too. Yeah, it's lovely, isn't it? It's wine society. They're such good value, to be honest.

I love good value. But I have made vegetable pie for you. Well, I haven't, my friend did, because we've been out all day. No, but you did make the chicken soup, and you've made the purge. I made the chicken soup, and made the pudding soup and made the pasta. And made the? And made the salad. So then she like got a bit of it. I eat anything.

I eat anything. Okay, good, great. But he would like to eat soon. What's your favorite thing to eat, Louis? Well. Vegetable lasagna. Favorite. I love a really good pizza, actually.

Yeah, I don't cook pizza. Cause you can't really replicate proper pizza quality at home. Should I tell you my trick? Go on. Go to your favorite pizza place, pay for the dough and then make pizzas at home. Get a Gosney. Or one of those home pizza ovens. Yeah they're brilliant but if you get the dough because I can't be fat with the dough and you do it, how old are your kids? Here's the thing though, they're 18, 16 and 10. So they don't really want to make pizza with their dad anymore? Okay fair enough.

And then you're doing them one by one and it's a little bit annoying. If you could bring out four at the same time of a decent size, but then you become a slave to the... I've got an Ooni. Do you know about Ooni pizza ovens? Yes. And with that, it's kind of fun for a while that you put bits of wood in and you're like, this is like you're making a fire.

And obviously the key with really good pizza is the heat of the oven. You need to get it up to like 600 degrees. Very hot because it's first cooking like five minutes. Yeah it's going to be really hot and you want tiger spotting you know that leopard spotting that's right leopard spotting on the crust where it's where it's got little burn marks and but then you're like oh my god it's like working in the engine of an old steam train where you're having loading in more fuel to keep the heat up. Then you're stretching out your dough, you're putting your toppings on,

and then suddenly two hours have gone by and you haven't talked to anyone. So where do you get your pizza from then? Well, I would, well, the best is in America, obviously, and in fact, New York. Do you think? Yeah. What's your topping?

Which ones? Yeah. I'd go like a Veggie Supreme. With pizzas I'm more inclined to... What makes it supreme? That's just what they call it. Oh, OK. That's like a Domino's topping.

I don't mind Domino's. OK. But... With pineapple or without? I wouldn't go with pineapple. What's your dip at Domino's? Uh, the Herbie White Wings. You know what, when I was living on my own, I was between girlfriends in my early 20s,

maybe late 20s, I was ordering Domino's quite a lot. Because I like to cook, but not when I'm just on my own. It feels to take the savor out of it. So I was ordering, and I was getting Domino's pizza coming around, and then you get the dips, and then you dip it in the dip, and a few weeks went by, and I was getting Domino's pizza coming around and then you get the dips and then you dip it in The dip and a few weeks went by and I got this weird sensation Like I was carrying like a rubber ring around and I realized like I'd put on a ton of weight Which was weird and then it so it turns out

The dip pushed me over the edge It was the full pizza from Domino's probably that didn't help either. Let's start at the edge. You don't think it was the full pizza from Domino's? Probably that didn't help either. Let's start at the beginning. You were born in Singapore. Yes, I was. Why? Why were you born in Singapore? Because my parents were teachers

and they'd met in Kenya? No, Uganda. I think they'd met in Uganda, in Central Africa, and, or is that East Africa? Anyway, the point being they were teachers and they'd moved from Uganda to Singapore to teach. My dad was teaching at the University of Singapore. Oh, they weren't missionaries?

No, my mom was in the VSO, Volunteer Service Overseas. My dad was in the Peace Corps. That was his service instead of going into the Vietnam War. They were both idealistic and liked the idea of traveling and seeing the world and broadening their horizons. And they met and fell in love. Had my brother in Kampala in Uganda. And then I think my dad was getting into trouble in Africa with the authorities, so they moved

to Singapore. And that's where I entered the picture. How many years were you there? One year, I think. So you don't really remember it? Don't really, I mean, don't remember even vaguely. Right. And I've never been back, but I like the idea of it. Like it seems like, you know, it's a city state.

So it's like, it's just one. Yeah. It's like, you know, like Monaco or Vatican City. Or Hong Kong. So really, you know, it's like Singapore, the capital of Singapore, which is Singapore. You know what I mean? Yeah. And I think it's a bit of a melting pot

you got Chinese and Malaysian and it's a Southeast Asian mix and Kind of great social welfare ability very clean That's what I understand of it. And then you came to catford Then we moved to it. Well, we moved to the UK my mum, well they settled in Dorset, I guess my mum's parents were in near Beminster. Oh that's near where my in-laws live in Bridport. Yeah, yeah we used to go into Bridport to do the shopping. Yeah it's nice. And they were in a little town called near Netherbury, that's where my grandparents had retired anyway and then they moved up to Catford, they wanted, my mum town called, near Netherbury, that's where my grandparents had retired.

Anyway, and then they moved up to, my mom wanted to work at the BBC, she went to work for BBC World Service, so they moved to Catford in Southeast London. Glamorous Catford. I actually live in New York. Do. And Catford's only up, thank you.

It's only taken 50 years. So how long were you in South London for? Uh, well, 16, 17 years because we were in Catford and then we moved to Wandsworth and not far from where we are now. Oh. Clapham Junction, neck of the woods, north side Wandsworth Common. Elsting Road, if you want to get specific. I know Elsting Road. Yeah, it's quite a nice road. Lovely. It's all the houses are a bit different. Yeah, they're all different. It was supposedly designed as part of the great exhibition in the in the mid-19th century to to illustrate different housing styles.

So that was really my childhood home from the age of five till when I went off to university. And where, well firstly, around the dinner table, who was around the dinner table and who was cooking? It was me, my mum, my dad and my brother. And I was at boarding school during the week from the age of 13. So we, and my mum was a working mum. So when I was probably from the age of five to thirteen I was getting, I was eating

a lot of my meals with either a nanny or an au pair. We were just making fairly, you know, just kids food. I remember things like spaghetti hoops on toast. Yeah. Do you know what I'm talking about? Yeah. Do you still see that? You don't do that anymore, do you? I still love that.

My kids aren't into it. They'll do beans on toast, but they can't do the hoops. Hoops on toast, I haven't even eaten it. But I used to love that because it's a very sweet tomato sauce. And the crust is so soft, isn't it? Yes, very soft. That was an, I used to own, you know, white toast with Angel Delight, you know, for afters. Which flavour?

Butterscotch. Everyone loves butterscotch, yeah. with Angel Delight, you know, for afters. Which flavour? Butterscotch. Everyone loves butterscotch, yeah. That would have been quite a treat to have the Angel Delight. Or a club biscuit. So chocolatey. Beans on toast, a lot of fish fingers, maybe a lamb chop, sausages. Do you remember Franks and Beans?

Yeah, you brought them in a tin. Oh, right, yeah. With weird little soft little hot dogs inside the beans. That's awful. I mean, that's what we were eating. They were quite nice, actually. I don't know, now it seems almost quite weird and unhealthy. They weren't fresh.

This is when I was like six, seven, eight, nine, that was what I was eating. And then boarding school, how was the food there? It was okay. Was that Westminster? Yeah I went to Westminster. You know he's... So you weren't too far away? My big thing, okay, that I want to get out of the way is that until I was probably 16, 17, 18, I was a fussy eater. I was almost, you know that term, neophobic, where you're afraid of new things. Oh my god. Which I think is not uncommon in children. No, most children don't.

There were five things that I knew I liked. Tomato soup, you know, fish fingers, a few others, chips, fish and chips. And then I really didn't want to go out of that lane. And my parents, like one of our family things was on a Sunday, my parents would take us to an Indian restaurant in Patni called the Taj Mahal and my brother would get like a prawn biryani and my dad would get a king prawn madras. I don't know what, I can't remember what my mum would get and what would I get? What papadums? Fried chicken and chips. Did they do that? Yeah they had like a little

English section on the menu and I was like I want the fried chicken I didn't even trust rice. I didn't trust it. I was like, what is it? I didn't talk one day I was like, why don't you just try I'm like, imagine it's just trying you you have a spoonful of rice. Mm-hmm And what do you it's bland, isn't it? Because actually no one just eats rice You don't want rice on its own you want rice with something So I was like, no, I don't like it because it just tasted of rice, you don't want rice on its own, you want rice with something. So I was like, no, I don't like it, because it just tasted of rice, right. But until I was probably 16 or 17, I didn't really acquire a taste for anything, particularly what I would have considered exotic. How did it make your, were your parents kind of accepting of that? Or were they irritated? I'd give them enormous credit for being patient with me.

And I think there was a phase when I was 15, 16, 17, when I was mainly eating crunchy nut corn flakes. Do you know what I'm talking about? Boy, some cereal. I was eating probably three or four bowls a day, almost like someone with disordered eating. You know what I mean? Where they'd like, they'd put out the food and here's your, there were a few things like, my mum made fish parcels and I liked those. That was Adelius. No, no,

that wasn't. Oh, she, Adelia made fish parcels. No, she liked Adelia, but no, this was actually, do you know, um, oh my God, Jocelyn Dimbleby. Yes. It was called A Taste, no, it wasn't A Taste of Dreams. That was her pudding cookbook, but she had another one that was, it was a Jocelyn Dimbleby. It. It was called a taste, no it wasn't a taste of dreams that was her pudding cookbook but she had another one that was a Jocelyn Dimbleby. I think I've got it. It was fish pie, it was basically little parcels of fish with pastry, a bit of cheese and some spinach. I liked that and there were a few others that as time went on I broadened but there was a

time when I was like don't like it mum. She's like okay well just go and you know have something else I stick it in the bin and have crunchy nut cornflakes how did that work in boarding school though was it actually quite straightforward because usually it was probably like you have fish and chips yeah Friday yeah it would be really bland and basic so it kind of suited you I could I could manage there'd be something that I could eat did Did you like boarding? I did quite yeah I mean it was an odd one because actually I lived not you know 20 minutes. Sorry that was my rip sorry it was just a bracelet I was fiddling. It sounded like I nearly thought it was a gun. I thought that was like a terror attack. I was ready to drop and roll.

I thought there was a gun from there. Bloody hell. That was a shot. I need a minute to calm down now. What was it? It was my pearl bracelet. My heart's going like a drum. So... How did it make so much noise? I don't know.

I'm sorry, and you were about to talk about... I've totally lost my focus. Don't worry, boarding school, did you enjoy it? Oh my God. I've been in war zones. Shit like that can set me off. Do they have crunchy nut at night? Do you provide therapy if I'm traumatised by being here?

Yeah, that's really my proper job. Is there any food that's triggering for you? Christ, chicken soup probably. Not really, but there's food that I can imagine would be triggering. Like in Japan, don't they, they do a food where they, they, they fill it, the fish while it's still alive and then it's flopping around on your plate while you eat it. That would be quite triggering. Have you eaten that, Jessie?

Have you? I don't like eating things other than I'll eat an oyster while it's alive, but I'm not, I wouldn't want to eat anything else while it was actually alive, looking at you, looking at you looking at you saying what are you doing your point was uh what no there was that you're asking another question which was to do with boarding school and and truthfully it's a bit like it's a funny one because parts of it are brilliant it's a bit like being in a war zone I mean I used to facetiously compare it that when I went to San Quentin it was fine because I'd already been to boarding school and it was exactly the same. You know it's an

all-male environment with a lot of situational homosexuality, you know guys slapping each other's bums and saying like oh get you you know and and sublimated sort of like wrestling and squeezing and also it's not gangs but it's cliques and parts of it are kind of cozy and almost magical right that almost that Hogwarts feeling of being in an alternate reality in these extraordinary centuries-old buildings Christopher Wren design buildings or you're in your assemblies were literally in Westminster Abbey. If you can get your head around that you would go off to your Monday morning assembly,

go past Chaucer's tomb, go past a monument to William Shakespeare, you know, you're you're right in the heart of the oldest part. You know, this is where literally Edward the Confessor, I think, I think, was crowned right king in whatever that was, 1065 or something. And so all of that, all the stones are saturated in all that history. But at the same time, you feel occasionally a bit lonely, a bit dislocated, and you know, you miss out on parts of family life. I remember looking around Westminster with my son. Yeah, it felt like university It felt clever. It felt the most cleverest place

I'd ever been into and actually when you go off to you because I went off to to Oxford not trying to make a big Thing out of it. I got a first in history. Very good. Thank you. It's not a big deal It's a very high first is I'm not trying to say a lot about that in history history One of the highest very clever in the year the year but that's irrelevant that's not important what's very important is that other than that is that having been to Westminster you sort of felt a bit like I was more than college Oxford very desirable very high achievement. Did you date in that time Louis? The point I was gonna get to Is that why you got the first? The first isn't important, I don't know why I brought that up.

It's very impressive. It's not. I worked incredibly hard and- It paid off. And so it is what it is. Enough, I wish I hadn't mentioned it. It's very attractive, Louis. It's very attractive.

I wish I hadn't mentioned it. So having been to Westminster, it was a bit like, it was a tiny bit like, oh, I've, cloisters, old buildings, people going around in gowns. Been there, done that. Been there, done that. Oh, did you wear a gown at school?

Or the masters did? I think the scholars did and the masters did. And so it was kind of a thing. Yeah, it's not like Heaton though. You can read more about my experiences at Westminster in my memoir, Gotta Get Through This This available on Amazon. Oh, you're kidding.

I reviewed it and gave it five stars. They took the review down. Oh, for God's sake. They said it was a conflict of interest. Why didn't you just pretend to be Justin Theroux? He can't read. They would have seen through that. He's very handsome though. He is handsome.

Is that where you met Adam? Yeah. At Westminster? Yeah. That's also when God had to get through this. We had him on the podcast. I'm sorry I didn't read your memoir. Did you not read it?

Not there. There's one thing when I'm interviewing a guest, I always read them. I know, I know. We know that. You're really, listen, this is something that I... I often joke like, if you want to hide something, if it's something you absolutely don't want

people to know about you, put it in a book, no one will read it. Oh, really? Yeah. Jimmy Savile had confessed everything in his book. But no one read the book. I'm amazed what you can... I read Sharon Osborne's book and I was like, okay. It was extraordinary.

And then I lost her about it. She's like, how do you know all this stuff? She hadn't read her own book. She probably hadn't written it either. How did you go about choosing the celebrities that you had on your television show when it was the series with Judy, Storms, Ray, Rita? That was hard because we wanted people

who would be of the caliber that we thought would merit that level of treatment, but you're also asking a lot of the stars. It's not like a podcast where you say, sit down for an hour or two, we'll come to you, you come to us, or we can even do it remotely. You're actually saying we need two or three days probably in your home, at your work. And that's a big ask of someone at that level. Back in the day, just to roll back, the first things I did involving celebrities, we would say we want 10 days. This was the few. They never have 10 days.

The few before mentioned Jimmy Savile, Paul Daniels was one for those who remember, the magician and his wife Debbie McGee. Oh yeah. Neil and Christine Hamilton, Max Clifford the publicist and a few others. for those who remember, the magician and his wife Debbie McGee. Oh yeah. Neil and Christine Hamilton, Max Clifford, the publicist and a few others. It was, that was very, very hard and quite quickly we ran out of road and and actually whether it was never kind of made explicit, but in point of fact, we were largely dealing with people who were on the downside of their careers, like it's not a nice term. So they came on your show instead of going on Strictly? It was

before Strictly, before Big Brother or around the same time it was yeah it was I'm a Celebrity before any of that and and then when reality TV came along and celebrities realized they could get their own you know they could appear on things they didn't have to tolerate a BBC Inquisitor being impertinent. Then quite clearly they would choose to do that. Plus the shows went on and who wants to be like, who wants to be like, well, we've done Jimmy Savile

and we've done Paul Daniels, so we'd love to do you. And I remember one or two of the celebrities agents were like, well, that's not a very nice thing to be asked. You know, it became almost like a brand of like being washed up it's like louis thru asks you to do something so 15 20 years went by and i slight i feel like it was a long road of trying to kind of um how do i put this show people that i wasn't just out to get people, to show actually that I was up for having conversations that felt fair and humane and that would be a win-win in a sense, or at least that's what we were aiming for, was not to show people up but

to absolutely just tell the truth in a way that might not be unnecessarily prohibitive. What was your first job? You left University? Yeah well my first actual job job leaving University was working in a as a not apprentice but as a sort of helper to a glassblower. Wow. Yeah, in Boston, in Boston, Massachusetts. Why? So basically, I left university. With the aforementioned American parent, I had an American passport. I went to live in America and I thought,

I don't know what I want to do, I'm very confused. I don't know, I have a degree from Oxford. I have no idea what to do with myself. I've been on this track, high achieving, like getting absurd, like working ridiculously hard learning about medieval kings of France and the scientific movement Galileo Descartes, Boyle, Kepler, Newton. Right, like who, what do you do? Then suddenly you're like, well now you're in the real world, they kick you out the other side of university and what are you qualified for? Like I could have been an academic, I guess, I didn't want to do that and I was like, well what do I do? I don't know, I'm like a, I'm like a cage chicken, like a cage veal that's been released

into the wild, you know, with spindly little legs. I was like a battery hen with spindly legs saying like, I don't know how to fly, I don't know what to do. So I thought, well, I have got an American passport. My brother was living in America at the time. My parents had recently separated. Don't you're going to make me cry. No, there was a weird time emotionally for me. Yeah, more of that in got to get through this It's a very moving Piece of the book and so, you know, it's you think about oh, well you were a grown man. Your parents were getting divorced Deal with it man up stop being a snowflake for fuck's sake No, actually, it's quite upsetting when your parents divorced even if you are a grown man. I

Could talk more about that. That would be an exclusive if you are a grown man I could talk more about that that would be an exclusive no it's an odd because also because I could see how upset my mum was were you angry at your dad? Well it not I mean if I was angry I think I was angry with with both of them I think I think mainly what I was angry about was that I was becoming the vector for their relationships. So they weren't really speaking, but my dad would be saying one thing about what was happening and my mum would be saying like, what did your dad say? And I'm like, this go-between in the relationship. So you moved to America. Well, that wasn't why I moved to America, but that was what was going on in my life life and so I moved because I didn't know what I was good for and I

thought well I'll go live in America at least I'll be kind of experiencing something I've got an American passport I traveled around for a couple of months I lived with my dad at his house in Cape Cod for a little bit where he was now living full-time having separated from my mum and then my brother had moved to Boston he just finished a master's degree at Yale he was working at something called a tv channel I slept on his floor for a bit and I couldn't find you know it's like what do I do now I thought well I could get work in a bookshop like that was you know what I mean it's like what do you do when you're 21 and you've got really no qualifications other than a degree, right?

You just, you know, and so I thought, well, I work in a bookshop and then near the bookshop, there was a glass blowing shop, a studio where they were making these strange goblets. It's a technique. Like Murano or? Well, I don't know what that is. Well, in Murano. Maybe, I don't know what that is. Well, in Murano, yeah, they blow glass. Yeah, they were they were basically it's called the Maseecho technique, which is a Venetian glass.

Yeah, right. Yeah. So Murano is an island off Venice. There you go. Yeah. So it must have been copied. They made these cherubs. It was kind of a weird Frankensteinian process where he'd buy these goblets from the shop and then he cut them in half and then he put this this cherub in the middle. And process where he'd buy these goblets from the shop and then he'd cut them in half And then he put this this cherub in the middle and then he he'd fold this glass around he put on

He'd make a cloud. I think he would do their hair and then he'd put a willy on them You're joking on the cherub. Did you ever have to put the willy on? I wish like I wish I had no glass skills So then that basically the the working for his name was Tony Devlin paid like 25 cents an hour more than the bookshop. So I was like, well, I'll go and work with Tony and help with the willies. Yeah. Can I see some of your soup?

Yeah. Thank you. Do you need some bowls there? So delicious. It is nice, isn't it? Yeah. Do you like matcha balls? Do you skim it?

Yeah. Put it in the fridge overnight. That feels very... It feels good for you, right? Yeah, so it's got no fat. Yeah, there's very little schmaltz. Yeah, no schmaltz. Are you good at cooking? Um, I don't feel I should be the one. That's like reviewing your book on Amazon, isn't it? You've got to ask someone like that. Okay, okay, so if we were coming around to yours, Yeah. what are you making us Louis through? I'm going to get... Um, that's a great question.

Well, I'll tell you what I like to make. I'm a no frills cook. If it was lunch, I might just do, I might just roast a chicken. I know that's so boring, but I really love just a nice roast chicken. I might, if I was feeling, if you'd given me a bit more warning

and if it was you would be a bit more special because You know you we don't know each other that well, so I probably want to roll out the red carpet and I might do a vegetarian lasagna, I've heard about this which is a lot of effort, but Kind of fun and also it means that you prepped it so Once the guests are there you stick it in the oven with a nice salad. That's a lovely meal. Or a slow roasted lamb. There's a couple of recipes where it's like a five

or six hour and it falls off the bone. Acquier is that I believe the French term. Acquier meaning to the spoon, like as in it's so tender that you could, you can, you can break off with a spoon. I always feel like slow cooked food feels so special and it feels so thoughtful, but actually it's quite effortless, isn't it? Because you're kind of bung it in. I love a slow roast. Do you know that viral recipe that's, um, it's like a beef stew where there's only five ingredients and it never goes wrong and it's extraordinarily delicious?

It's literally, literally five ingredients. There's no chopping. Oh, I love that. Two of the ingredients are just spices that are in a packet. It never fails. And I think it's a five-hour, six- hour beef roast. And what would you serve it with? Mashed potato. Do you add anything to your mash? Do you like to get decadent?

I don't. I mean, I know people who like they'll add like borsin. You know that one? Yes. We have in our cookbook at chicken borsam courtesy of producer Alice. Yeah, that's nice. I mean, but I actually think if you do, if I put a quite a lot of butter in and obviously season it liberally with salt and pepper, a little bit of milk. Yeah. I don't think it needs anything else. What else does it need? So you are, you're quite foodie, like you like cooking. Yeah, I love cooking. I would say I'm the cook of the house.

Oh, right. Yeah, I do, I would say 90% of the cooking. In fact, maybe even 100%. So your poor wife is not eating tonight because you're here. Have you already prepared her some food? Well, Friday nights we have a takeaway. Which actually I'd rather cook on a Friday night, but it's a tradition.

It's kind of nice in a way. The kids like it. It's a special night to have something ordinary. So have you just got boys? Three boys, yeah. Wow. But on a Saturday or a Sunday, I cook to relax, I cook just to sort of busy myself.

I cook obviously to eat. And so on a Sunday or Sunday I do some batch cooking, like I'll typically make a huge Bolognese. Aldi you can get 750 grams of mince. It's a mixture of- I love Aldi. Do you know what I'm talking about? And it's a mixture of pork and beef mince.

And it actually says on the label, ideal for Bolognese. Do you know what I'm talking about? No, but that's such a good hack. I love Aldi. It's very very affordable and so there's a Jamie Oliver recipe for Bolognese in Ministry of Food and it's basically two onions, two cloves of garlic, two carrots, two sticks of celery, can you remember that? Hello. Two tins of tomatoes, refilled with water. And he doesn't call for tomato paste, but I put the paste in, I think it makes a bit better. And what I also do is like beforehand, I'll often either fry up some pancetta or fry up some, this is my invention, I know invention, that's a strong word, some

chorizo which is rich in paprika-y, like fry it for like two, three, four minutes and then take it out, put it to one side and it infuses the bolognese with some really rich umami flavors and then you do 750 grams. Louis 3 is bringing out the umami! You need a big, you need a really big pan for that. You are a real chef. Think about how much you've got 750 grams. That's about four meals and then all through the week. That is not four meals for three boys. Well they come and go so they'll have a bit go about having, but basically it's like having a cauldron you know like being a gall you know in ancient times and you've got a huge cauldron of bolognese and they come in literally today for lunch they came and help themselves by the way I'm

always conscious of cutting down I think a really good a really good puttanesca and again just double the quantity so that you can you can you have enough you know when they say like enough before well just do enough for eight or twelve do you know what I mean? And then stick it in a Tupperware thing. Save the, when you get a takeaway, save the Tupperware boxes. Do you do that? Wash them. Show Louie your drawings. I've got about a thousand of them. I get so excited. You organise. As long as they're all, I only have one type and if you order from, oh no it's not the right type but basically you make into a puttanesca with tomatoes capers olives anchovies I don't know

the proportions and that's good all week the puttanesca do you know why they call it puttanesca? No. It's a whore salad. Whore sauce. I shouldn't say it, but prostitute sauce. Is that better? It's prostitute sauce. Sex worker sauce. Because? I don't know that one. Because they didn't have very long between clients.

So they'd have like 15 minutes and they'd have to whip something up really fast. Oh, that's why it's a good thing to make. Yeah, apparently. Did they make that cheap? Because Poutain in Italian is Poutain in French. Did you get that on your weird weekend with the porn stars? Do you see why you're using your desserts? I don't know, I just am. Louis, what do you think of the Matzs balls? Just asking.

Amazing. Okay. Delicious. Good. It's so rich and it's so... it feels like it's good for you. Yeah. Chicken soup for the soul. What did the porn stars eat on their like... did they have like protein shakes or did they have like strawberries dipped in chocolate? I didn't spend enough at home with the, porn stars in general, this is a huge generalization, but based on my limited experience,

I mean, I made three films in that world, but they're not massively, the ones I met, I should say. Have you finished, darling? Well, massively, they weren't like, okay, I feel weird even. I'm on thin ice with this. I didn't spend enough at home with them to really know. I will say that in the world of the brothel, I spent three weeks living at a brothel.

Not for a film, I just liked living there. I always make that joke. It's like I feel dying inside. It's quite a good one, though. That you continue. I know, it's like I just liked living there. I always make that joke and it's like I feel dying inside. It's quite a good one though. That you continue. I know, it's like I'm like... And they always had like the, it was the best stocked fridge. You know they say an army marches on its stomach?

Well, a sex worker also. May I? Had sex on her stomach. I didn't, I was going to use a rude word and then I didn't. So what was in the fridge? In the sense that that was the thing. It was everything. Just everything. It was the most... I've never seen a fridge quite so full of food. Have you said that? I remember when I met a porn performer, male porn performer called Tommy Gunn, and halfway through his sex scene he came out and he ate this weird thing,

squeezed it out of a little packet. Like an astronaut. Yeah, like an astronaut. Or like an energy. Or like a football player is doing it. And it was like, what is that? They're like protein, aren't they? Is it a protein?

It was almost like it was to keep- Probably needed the energy to get it in. Or hydration. He was halfway through the scene. For his erection. It was really striking because, do you mind me, you were asking me so basically In the world of porn of keeping an erection is for the man the job right that is the job

Yeah, you could almost argue. It's not the only job, but it's the main job because the other jobs are being nice on set Turning up on time Etc be respectful but but but the sine qua non, the must have, is a hard penis. I'm sorry to put it so bluntly. And I remember seeing him, but it's interesting when you, because in the Me Too era, it's like, well, it's really odd to manage the social niceties in a world where your erect penis is absolutely central to the the job and remember seeing this guy Tommy doing a

scene and the minute they cut this like the woman pulled away and that was it and I remember thinking like that's interesting because you might think oh he needs a little help like I don't know that that was a prejudice that I brought like actually you know that you're the sec they're filming the sex But why would he need help? Well, because there's a where's a two three minute break. Oh to keep it up Yeah, and at that point he's gonna droop right she did she broke away. I was like, okay I guess that how it's well, it's nice it to Tommy like so is that odd and he says well some people do it like that You know, it's called wood management like but you know, and I personally I would prefer wood management, but you know and I personally I would prefer would management but you know because what is the word for the she's meant to manage

his dick well not meant to but I think he was saying it would be easier for him if if if she if between scenes she kept it there was some there was the intimacy continued right but but that's obviously you know a case-by-case basis and then and that may be why my point is that maybe why he needed the protein stick. I don't know what to say. Would you like some onions and some blue cheese? It's a what can you say like among professions like it's obviously the idea of having sex for a living It's not really sex is it it's acting but it's sad. Here's the thing. It is really Well, yeah is in the sense that they're having sex

That's true. You want to mean that's the only thing that isn't actually maybe not making love. Do you mean they are it definitely is sex Okay, do you like I really like is sex. Do you like the pie? I really like the pie. Did you make the pie? No. A friend did. It's delicious, isn't it? I have got the recipe though.

It's absolutely delicious. We ask our guests what their last supper would be. This might be my last supper. This is delicious. It's good. It's really delicious. It's like being run over by a car on the way home. Do you want some more?

No, you're going in a black cab home. Yeah, we're going to make a phone call. You're going to be okay. You're going to be okay, Louis. Drink up. Can I have another slice? Yeah. You don't mind?

Thanks, darling. That's the best when we get a guest that wants more. Just a sliver. I know, but they'll be so thrilled. Wonder what's in this. I'll tell you what's in there. It's the bottom that makes it. It's pine nuts, lemon, and parsley,

mixed up with a little water. Have you been on Celebrity Bake Off? I will never. Why? I'm not a baker. I know about your pizza cookie. Oh, you do know about that. You've got the shake.

Yeah, I could have done better. I wish I could do it again. Maybe they'll have you again. I did get a Hollywood handshake. Yeah. Speaking of regrets, do you regret anything that you, have you got any regrets of any of your shows or podcasts that you feel like maybe you took it too far?

I'm a terrible sort of revisitor. You know, I go back and see things I could do differently. And one of my other terrible habits is looking at my old programs. Like even last night, I'd had a couple of drinks and I- Oh God, you didn't look at your old programmes. They're all on iPlayer. Oh my God did you see that? You must have seen that amazing Guardian article about...

Yeah some guy spent like 48 hours just watching them or something. It was amazing though. Just watching his programmes. Yeah because they'd just been on iPlayer. I should see some guy, a talented journalist. And it was a really good article. Some guy. Does he do the jiggle wiggle? Well done, Mum.

That's not, it doesn't mention anything about doing a jiggle wiggle. But I do the same thing of going back to last night, whatever reason, sometimes I just try and remind myself, are they any good? Occasionally you think, wow, that one's pretty good. And sometimes you think- Were you lacking in confidence yesterday?

Um, I don't know what was going on. It doesn't take much. It's not like, oh I'm in a low, I'm struggling, look at that progress. It wasn't like that, it was more um, you know you're on your phone and you're like, what was it? I think I was just thinking about programme making and documentaries. I thought, what was that one? So I did one where I went back to see Joe Exotic. It's a 90 minute. Is that Tiger King? It's called, yeah, Shooting Joe Exotic,

where I tried to process the experience of knowing Tiger King. And anyway, to your point about regrets. So what I tend to see is things that I could have, this is ours. I don't, actually things that happen in the field for the most part I'm quite pleased with. I sort of accept that you, on location you get what you get for the most part. And then most of my regrets are to do with things

in programs where I could have written it slightly differently. And actually the phrasing feels a little bit clunky. I know that's the most boring answer I could possibly give, but honestly there's so much about the job that is technical to do with how you write in and out of scenes, how you frame encounters. And those are the things where I'm like, I don't know, I think I could have improved on that. That felt wordy or that felt like it didn't quite nail the idea

or that felt overstated. I did one with Joan Collins and I spent two days with her, two or three days in the South of France. And there was a scene where- That's amazing. I'm really pleased with the programme, but there was a phrasing thing where we arrive at this restaurant in the South of France

and they either aren't expecting us or they just aren't pleased to see us. Or they're French. Or they're French. And this is so small and technical but the line I did was Joan said she was always, you know, it's one of her favourite restaurants and they were always pleased to see her. And then I say, but on this occasion not so much. And then we see to them saying, she goes, are they, do they know we're here? And I saw that and I was like,

I wish I hadn't said on this occasion, not so much. Didn't need to. Didn't need that. Right, okay. It's a really small thing. Yeah. It just would have been, I think, I think it would have been a little better if I'd just taken those words out.

But you can't ruminate on things like that. No, but I guess. I can. I can. So you're going to be better. I think I do think that you could improve and that maybe the lesson is you just you think that you're there and then you just keep working and work harder on the writing, work harder on the framing and the structure. The Joe Exotic one I looked at last night, there was a bit where it's like that this part of the story, like the hinge isn't quite right,

the writing doesn't feel quite right. Anyway, there's so much that I regret. There's so much that I regret. There's a whole scene I wish we'd shot with the Joe Exotic film where he was going to, they were gonna campaign for his release and they were gonna go to Washington DC and we were offered a flight on his lawyer's plane

and then we just let it slide and just things like that I think I could have been slightly better You know Woody Allen said um This is like something about when's your happiest moment in creating a film He said about the moment I get the idea and then everything after that is a compromise Interesting we did something in that everything after that. I don't absolutely line up with that, but there is a sense in which there are small failings and little bits that you wish you could do differently or do over and as it goes on, you're pleased with how it turns out, but more often than

not there are little things that you feel actually you could slide, especially with the hindsight and the passage of time. I'm going to have one more tiny slice. Please do, you can take some time darling. Oh god I'm late. I know I'm sorry. What are you late for though just being with family? Yeah I just don't want to get back so crazy like but it's all good. You can't go home. That's so nice that pie. Yeah. taste for you that can take you back somewhere. He's going back. It's funny isn't it because the taste, the sense of taste and smell are the most closely associated with memory.

You know this isn't the answer probably you're looking for. Basically today I had a weird thing where, what was I cooking? I was making something, I don't know what it was. Bolognese? Might have been. Or lunch. There was something what was I doing? I might have even been cleaning out an old like something that had food that had gone off a bit. Cleaning out. love leftovers. And I got a whiff of the smell and it was this kind of strange congealed meat that they used to feed to cats in the 70s. Do you know what I'm talking about? This is very Proustian but yeah carry on. It was very Proustian. Really? Only in the sense that I was like,

I almost called my brother. When we got our kittens, I was probably nine and he was probably 11 and they said, they're so young. You can't give them normal cat food. So you have to go to the pet store and get this special. And it was like this congealed slop. I don't even know what they call it. It's like a gravy. Yeah, but it was solid, like a jelly.

It was like a slab, a slab of like weird toxic meat that was like so strange. There was no other smell. But I'd never thought about that smell. And then whenever I was doing this afternoon, cleaning out this Tupperware thing that had gone to the dark side, and I got the whiff and I was like, oh my God, that's taking me back to South London and that strange gelatinous slab of gray meat and how weird that was. I know that doesn't really answer your question,

but it was- It actually does. But it was a really, the two takeaways were, one was, wow, these sensory moments create pathways, almost like straight back into time, like 40 years or 30, went like that. It was like a corridor instantaneously,

as you said, like Proust. Do you remember what the Proust? It was Clementine's, wasn't it? Or Madeleine, it was a Madeleine. It was a Madeleine, but not just a madeleine. What was it? It was a madeleine dipped in tea. Oh, lovely.

Yeah, and it takes him back and he describes, the metaphor he uses, he says it's like putting, like a piece of paper, you know, there's a piece of paper that you put in water and it blooms like it turns into a flower. And his madeleine in his tea created this combination of sensations that took him back to his childhood in Conbrae and for me it was like this this rancid bit of meat that was in an old chilli that I found in the

Tupperware it took me back to this toxic meat slab that I'd fed to the cats the kittens when I had them it was exquisite and beautiful what were your kittens called? scratch and and Kipper. Good names. Yeah. You didn't finish your food. I'm like, I'm, do you want, no, I just, you can have another piece. I'm not a good girl. Darling, would you like another piece? No, I'm really full, that was so delicious.

I'm going to have to think about making a move in a minute as well. It's fine. That was so delicious. I mean, yeah, I, yeah, it was really nice. Thank you, Johnny. Thank you, Johnny. Thank you, Johnny. But also we started with the, you know, you know, we care about the guests when... I wish I could cycle home now.

Oh, why? Are you worried about having eaten too much? Yeah, it'd be a nice way to just sort of enjoy the food as it juggles up and down in my tummy. That would be my idea of absolute hell. I would be not wanting to do that. Blending it. Can I just, can I ask quickly, what is the one food that you don't think

you could live without? I could live without any food. No, like what do you like in your kitchen? Marmite, something else? Fish fingers. You like, do you eat them now? No, I don't eat them. No, of course I eat them.

But like, when was the last time you had fish fingers? There always are fish fingers in my freezer. Really? I could have them this week, but I probably would have had them last week. Well, how would you be having them? Fish finger sandwich or? Have I said something sharp now? No, but like, how are you eating them?

Like a sandwich? With my mouth? Yeah. Oh my God. Come on. Louis. He's all gone wrong. He's all gone to like Westminster.

Fucking year nine. Fuck's sake. In a sandwich. A fish finger sandwich. By the way, I think that's a respectable culinary practice. I think it is actually now. I hate to break it to you. Have you ever given it to your kids, fish finger sandwich. By the way, I think that's a respectable culinary practice. I think it is actually now. I hate to break it to you. Have you ever given it to your kids, fish finger sandwiches?

Yeah, they spit it out on my face. Oh god, delicious. And here's what you're going to do. Lightly toast the bread. Yep. Butter it. Yeah, white or brown? You'd probably go brown.

Would you go tartar? Or mayonnaise? Ketchup. No, no, no, no. Dry? No. Then what and also toast them under the I mean the fish fingers under the grill right. Don't fry them. Don't fry them, don't cook them in the oven. That's really important. In fact that's the only golden rule and then flip them two or three times. Yeah. So they're really crispy on the outside and hot and moist on the inside

Yeah, and then while they're still really hot grate some cheddar cheese could be other cheese We could put some borsal on there or soft cheese. It's game changer, Jess. And then and then a liberal sprinkling of Tabasco, Tabasco sauce. Don't give it to children that. And that. I, that sounds. Grind a bit of salt, a bit of pepper. Any salad. Or make it sound like this isn't a recipe. Any salad? Any salad?

I'm going to do a cookbook. Are you? Probably not. But if I were, it's going to be called Jump to Recipe. Jump to... I know, because I love it when it says... You know when you get one on the internet... Because it's all that shit.

It's all that... Oh my god. They tell you about them fucking making it. Yeah, how you do it. Like, help came over. And then another thing is I love onions. You're like, I haven't got time for this. Jump to recipe. And you click jump to recipe.

So mine's called Jump to Recipe. I'm going to be on the cover and I'll be jumping. I'll be in midair. That would be great. With my thumbs up like that. It's called Jump to Recipe. Louis Theroux's No Bullshit Guide to Making Delicious. Louis Thru is no bullshit guide to making delicious food. I think, like, you've just got yourself a book deal.

If you're out there, right? Jump to Recipe. I don't... This isn't a hobby. I don't want to read about, oh, you know, this... I just need the recipe. Yeah. You know what I mean? I know exactly what you mean, Louis. I can't wait for that.

The first one will be Fish Finky Sandwich. Stop being so rude! He's so naughty. I know exactly what you mean. The first one will be a fish finger sandwich. Stop it! He's so naughty. My head's in a spin darling. Louis Theroux is an absolute rager. It all got quite squiffy at the end. Yeah. I don't know if he actually answered one question.

He didn't give us a pudding did he? No but he liked mine. He did like yours. He loved the pie. He loved the pie. He had three slices. He loved the pie. Three slices.

Thank you, Jonny. Thank you, Jonny. He's now like tying with who had three servings. Did Ed Sheeran have four servings? Yeah. So he's second place. Ed Miliband had three servings. So Louis and Ed Miliband. Yeah.

He's really brilliant. He's brilliant. He's entertaining. He's so terrifyingly intelligent. Yeah. And completely immature. I don't know if it's immature. He's got a very-

He loves talking about willies, I've realized too. Yeah, we had cherubs with willies. We had like- Erections in pornography, the wood. The wood. He loves it. Loves it. Frisky Fridays with Louis Theroux.

That's the new season. Frisky Fridays. Louis' podcast is on Spotify. You can listen to it. He is excellent. Bit jealous of his cookbook name. Jump to Jet Recipe is so clever. But yeah, that went off paced and I liked it. I enjoyed it very, very much. Thank you to Louis Theroux for coming over here and saying that you had to leave at 8.30 and you've left at 25 past 9. Puncture on the way.

Puncture. Now in a black cab. Going to Pimla cab. There's some black cab driver thinking I've got Louis Theroux in the car. With his high vis. And his beanie and he's got to get the bloody bike in there. Good luck mate. You can watch all of Louis' documentaries on iPlayer. And his beanie and he's got to get the bloody bike in there. Good luck mate. You can watch all of Louis' documentaries on iPlayer. You can listen to his podcast.

We've learnt a lot darling. Read the biographers before they go. Then you know their secrets before they know them. That is an excellent bit of intel. Thank you for listening and we'll see you next week.