Table Manners with Jessie and Lennie Ware - Michel Roux Jr.

Episode Date: June 11, 2025

We have the wonderful Michelin star chef, and owner of La Gavroche, Michel Roux Jr joining us for lunch this week. Mum was surprisingly calm considering she was cooking for a double Michelin star chef, but Michel even got involved and guided her through the fish cooking! We heard all about Michel’s military training in his teens, his dad cooking for the Queen Mother, his love of vintage champagne, leaving Masterchef The Professionals due to potatoes and he tells us how his mother’s waters broke right in the middle of their dinner service! Michel was a true gentleman and joins our list of fabulous chef guests across the series. You can catch La Gavroche at Wimbledon this summer and on board selected Cunard cruise ships. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Details at fizz.ca. Hello and welcome to Tate Manners. I'm in the room with Lenny and she's laughing thank God. Why are you laughing? Well it has been a traumatic week, Ches. Oh yeah, I know. We just want to take a moment to say rest in peace Prince. The cat that you have heard a lot of. Annoying us.

Annoying you for years. He's been a staple of Table Manners. But sadly we said goodbye yeah how are you Lenny well I'm coping just but I do miss him and I see my handbag on the floor and I think it's him oh yeah and I think oh god he's kick it back no I don't he's come back but the nasty cat that caused his demise by fighting with him came into the kitchen. What a gumption. Yeah, looking for food. And Prince to have another go.

And I shooed him out and threw water on him. Rest in peace, Prince, and thanks for being a great cat. He was a beautiful cat. Very handsome. Very handsome. And why did he get his name, Jessie? And whose cat was he, cat. He was a beautiful cat, very handsome. Very handsome. And why did he get his name, Jessie? And whose cat was he, actually? He was mine. Yeah.

And who? He was ours. Yeah, and who did you call him after? The artist. Yeah. Yeah. Formerly known as. So he's up with the Purple Prince now.

He's up with the Purple Prince. Shredding guitars. Probably. Or sofas. So we have, it's really hot today in London. Yeah. It's so hot that we've decided to get the Pims out and this is not a sponsor, it's that we've heard that this guest that we have on is his favorite drink in the summer. It's an odd one for a Frenchman. Do you think? Yeah. Let's talk about our

guest mum, who have we got on? Well he's someone I've admired for a long time, a because he is the most a wonderful chef and cooks things that I could only dream of cooking. And I did really want him to do an exhibition of how you make Eau Flottant. I would have loved that. Au Paris Brest. But sadly, I'm cooking for him today, so I hope it's up to snuff. What have you made today? I've made sea bass baked in the oven with white wine, olives and tomatoes.

Yum. Delicious sea bass. I'm going to get him to serve it, darling, so I don't make a big pixie out of it. OK. And then I've done potatoes roasted with fennel. It's an Angela Hartnett recipe. I've done some little courgettes a la bar p'tit because we were there last week.

And I've done some white asparagus because it's the season. And what have you done for pudding? I've made an almond lemon and apple cake, River Cafe, easy. Yum. They say it's easy, who knows? It was easy. It looks nice, I hope it's nice.

So, Michel Roux Jr. is a renowned chef, French chef. He owned the two Michelin-starred restaurant Le Gavarroche, which was opened by his father, who was Albert Roux, and his uncle, Michel Roux. And then it closed last year in January and I was so desperate to go. And people that said they ate there, it was just such a memorable experience.

He was also one MasterChef the professional. He was the kindest person, always very encouraging. So I hope he'll be encouraging today, Jesse, when I make an ashen blotty of anything. And I think he lives locally. Yeah, because I used to see him down that beautiful road. Michelle Rue Jr., coming up on Table Miners. ["The Last Supper"]

Michelle Rue Jr., you are here in our kitchen, and we are very excited to have you. We've wanted you on for so long. Mum is, Mum actually you've been quite calm for us having a Michelin starred chef. Did you pim? It looks beautiful. That's a piece of art.

Yeah, Joe did that. So much work that's gone into that. Oh my God, I feel like we're a master chef, professionals with that answer. You always were the nice guy. Are there any more glasses like this? It would be rude for me to say no, I will have a little bit of that.

Because it looks like fruit salad. It does, it's good for you. Does it get you five a day then? I'll help myself. I'll serve. Can you stop yourself from getting involved when you're at other people's houses? Yeah, I've walked in and I've served the water,

I'm serving the Pimms. Can you stop yourself? Or do people quite like you when you come over and you're like, you know what? Mum wanted you to fillet the fish today. You will be doing that. I just wanted you to come in and knock up a quick ear flotant. How's your morning been? What did you have for breakfast? So breakfast is is always the same.

I'm a creature of habit. Yeah. So it was really nice coffee, strong coffee, black coffee. Good quality bread, which is really important. Where do you get your good quality bread? Oh, thank you, Nessie Bakoo. There's a new one that's just opened on St. John's Hill called August.

So you're schlep all the way there for your bread? Yeah, so far. I guess you like all round your running. There's another one closer by on going towards Balham, it's called the Lockdown Bakery. Oh the Lockdown Bakery, it's just at Catham Sound. Yes, that's very good too. Is it? I thought it was at Calfam Sound, I didn't think it was. Well they do, but they do. And what's your bread choice, a sourdough loaf? I do like sourdough. Sourdough seems to be getting a bit of a bad rap because it's everywhere, but I like sourdough, good sourdough. So what did you have this morning? Baguette. I actually had a bit of baguette. Toasted, lots and lots of butter.

Salted butter, of course. From France? Yes, normally butter. And homemade marmalade. Oh, I love that. It's that routine. I like routine. I like order.

I like precision. And I like everything in place. He's like Andrew Ridgely. Yeah. From Wham. No, no, Andrew, I've met him several times. OK, so he has exactly almost the same breakfast as you. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Routine, I like routine. I don't like to be... Do you? I'm not into star signs, but what star... Gemini. Oh, you're Gemini. Oh, yeah, Gemini. Well, you're Gemini. Yeah, Gemini. I have two sides, two sides to me.

Okay, so do you have a wild side as well? Less so now, but yes, when I was young. Okay, good. So let's talk about when you were younger. Where did you grow up? Oh, cheers. Cheers. Yeah, cheers, thank you, thank you for inviting me.

Cheers, it was such a pleasure. Thank you for coming. Where did you grow up and who was around the dinner table? And I think I can imagine who was cooking cooking but tell us a memorable dish from your childhood And gosh, well, I was born here In the UK in Kent to be precise because mom and dad came to this country in 1959 and so

Yeah, dad was cooking in private house for a family called the Casalet family in Kent on a beautiful estate called the Fairlawn estate. And dad was the chef, the private chef, as it were, sort of Downton Abbey scenario or upstairs, downstairs. Yeah. And mum was the kitchen help. So it was the two of them. And so they were dishing up dinner to the family. And I kind of thought it was time to come out.

As in mum was heavily pregnant and the waters broke. Oh wow. In the middle of service. Oh my God. So she was rushed to hospital and the following morning I was in a professional kitchen. So from day one of my life I was in a professional kitchen

because obviously they didn't have any family, they didn't have any money to have nannies or care, childcare or anything like that. So I was in the professional kitchen. So when people ask me why were you a chef? Well I mean it was only a natural progression of What you know I can't think of anything. Yeah. Yeah, I can't think of doing anything else than being

Being a chef and following in, you know, my father and uncle's footsteps. So From the age of day one all the way through to all seven. We lived in this lovely little cottage next to the estate the Fairlawn Estate, and it was wonderful. It was in Kent and rural countryside. Dad used to grow vegetables and fruit, rear animals for the table, so it was a lovely... Was it just you or did you have any brothers or sisters? My sister, yes, but she came a lot later. She's five years younger than me, so she just she only saw a little bit of life in the country. Is she a cook as well? No. Do you describe you're a chef you're not a cook I shouldn't say that. There is a difference. There is a difference in my view there's a distinct difference between being a chef and being a cook.

Okay so tell us what you think. Not all cooks can become chefs. Absolutely yeah I definitely couldn't. I don't have the discipline. I agree yeah. But let's go back to some of the meals you were having. Were you having a lot of the meals that the family were having? No. Or was it very separate? No very separate.. So, mom and dad would cook at home because it was cooking for the family. Dad would get home relatively early. And there were times where the family were not in. So I mean, lots of time with mom and dad, which was lovely.

It was a wonderful childhood. And the food, well, the food was very French, obviously. I was brought, I mean, I was born in England, but brought up as a French child. Because both of my... They both spoke French. They both spoke French, and hardly any English at that stage. I mean, only a few words.

So it's your first language? French, even though I was born in England. Okay. Yeah. I mean, when I went to primary school, I struggled at first because I didn't speak English. So it really does, you know, put it in perspective. But the food, the food was wonderful. It was family, French food, so, you know, lots of great classics.

But because we're in the country, and as I said before, dad was rearing animals for the table. I mean, you know, I'd be playing around with the rabbits on a Tuesday and we'd be having roast rabbit on the table. I mean, you know, I'd be playing around with the rabbits on, you know, on a Tuesday and, and we'd be having roast rabbit on the Sunday. So, you know, but that was normal. Did you ever get affected by that? Were you ever like, please not flopsie? Or it was just kind of part of your upbringing. And that was the reality. That was the reality. And then we'd do a lot of foraging, we'd go fishing and any fish that we'd caught, we would eat, gathering snails,

crayfish in the rivers and such like, and mushrooms and it wasn't a gimmick or a fad or anything like that, it was what you did. And did your dad cook for you your meals or was it your mum that cooked your meals? Or a bit of both? I would say it was a bit of both. Until we moved to London

and dad and uncle opened Le Gavroche, so 1967. And then that- How old were you then? Seven. Seven, okay. And then dad kind of disappeared because he was working all the hours and six, seven days a week.

We'd have a Sunday off but he'd be sleeping all day Sunday, something. So mum was really the one that was cooking everything and looking after the two kids. I just wonder, when did when did your dad and your uncle get the first Michelin star? Seventy two, because I think the I think the Michelin guide launched in France in 1771. And then they got their first Michelin Stein. Why did everyone decide to come from France to England? From what I understand, my dad had got a summer job. Well, first of all, yeah, he got a summer job

at Clifton House when it was still privately owned. So that would have been in the early 50s. Where's that? Clifton House, just near Windsor? It's a huge estate. It's now a Hotel Clifton and so dad was a scullery boy there Okay, so bait doing basic cleaning and peeling vegetables. Why did he come? He fell in love with the country.

The following year, he had also another summer job in Ireland, again, as a lowly chef and worked there for two months. And again, just loved everything that was British, the countryside. And he said, you know, one day I want to come and work in England. So he went back to work after that

at the English embassy or British embassy in Paris as a chef, as a young chef, up and coming young chef and said to his head chef and bosses there at the embassy, if ever there's a job that comes up as a private chef in an estate in England, please count me in, I want to do it. And in those days, and maybe still now, those kind of jobs were always filled by French or Swiss, very often as well, chefs,

because they were the pinnacle of great food. So this came up and Dad was... Where had he trained in France? Started as a pastry apprentice in Paris and then went straight into private house so cuisine bourgeois as we say which is private chefing for the for the elite and the nobility. So I mean you grew up as a French boy in the UK but what were some of your favourite UK dishes or were they kind of not allowed to be eaten?

No, no, no, no, no, not at all. Sounds like your dad embraced, he loved being here. Dad absolutely loved it and loved British cuisine. So I mean, you know, he really got into it. And because it was a British, you know, obviously an English family, actually the Casillets, and probably what I admitted to tell you was the estate, Fenlon actually, the Casillets. And probably what I admitted to tell you was the estate, Fenwell Estate and the Casillet family were horse

trainers to the Queen Mother. So very often the Queen Mum would come there. So he'd be cooking for her. Yes. Fun. What was her favourite thing? Do you know? Did she ever request it? She really did enjoy the cheese soufflé that Dan did, the soufflé she said. And she used to ask for mustard with it, which you can understand. Cheese and mustard works

really well, so it's a good combo. But no, she would always have mustard on the side, but various other things. But yeah, little anecdotes about that, about the Queen Mum. The Casselet family had children about my age at that time when dad was there. And one day when the Queen Mum was coming in and inspecting her horses and stables and stayed for lunch. And as I alluded to earlier, I was always in the kitchen even when I was a baby and a toddler. And I escaped from the kitchen and went down into the into the corridors of the of the estate and the Queen mum came back

Just before sitting down for lunch with me in her arms and said to dad chef. I think this one belongs to you Not that I remember it but it's a it's a lovely story Like you have a wonderful you had a fantastic relationship with your dad. Yes, I mean up until he, up until we moved to London in 67, it was fantastic. It was an absolutely wonderful childhood, beautiful childhood. But then, you know, he wanted to open the restaurant. And then from, yeah, the age seven, till about, I would say, I was an apprentice, so 16, hardly saw him.

And we didn't really have much time. Restaurant's a hard work, aren't they? Yeah, because he wanted to make an impact, which he did, to get the business going I mean the holidays were great summer holidays. We would go fishing together and whatever which was fantastic They'll get me wrong, but but but that very very close childhood relationship stopped and then and then I disappeared at the age of 16 to do my apprenticeship and travel the world and you know be a chef and my apprenticeship and travel the world and be a chef. And then when I came back and started to take the business over, that was very fraught and very difficult because...

It's hard working with your family, isn't it? Oh gosh, yeah. And he didn't want to let go. Oh, okay. He said, no, no, I'm retired. Like hell he was. He didn't want to let go. How old were you when you took it over? Oh gosh. 29, 30. So you'd had like 15 years experience cooking, making a name for yourself and yeah it was it was tough for your dad to let go. Well I'm sure it was it kind of like did he give you the

space to do what you needed to do or was it very much teething issues for a while? I mean he did and he didn't. It was um as I said it was very difficult for him to let go I feel um and he was always sort of he was omnipresent he was always there. Did that drive you mad? At times yes and we did have words. In the kitchen? At times, yes. And we did have words. In the kitchen? Or sometimes, yes. Yes.

Which was not pretty. Oh, I bet. And, yeah, it's smelling good. Yeah. Yes. It's hard cooking, go on. English food, yes, or, yeah. Thank you.

So when I was at primary school in Kent, there was a headmistress called Etty, and I remember it clearly, vividly, from the valleys from Wales. Wonderful lady, beautiful, beautiful lady, so just so warm and friendly. And you were maybe, were you having quite a hard time at primary school at this time?

It was difficult to, because English was not my first language. And you're in having quite a hard time at primary school at this time? It was difficult to, because English was not my first language. And you're in Kent and potentially... It was... yeah, I mean, it was beautiful. I have only fond memories of that. And Etty bless, took me under her wing. And when there were special events or my mum and dad were very busy, she would look after me in the evenings. She was like Miss Honey.

She was wonderful. And she would make me some wonderful crumbles, steamed puddings, things like that. You know, good, proper English or Welsh maybe puddings. And they were a real treat, absolute treat and I remember I remember them you know still remember them. So parry breast or steamed pudding? Oh no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no Let's speak about your daughter Emily. Just got her first Michelin star? Yeah that's right. How do you say it, pronounce it properly? Caractere.

Caractere. Caractere. Yes, and it's in West London, Westbourne Grove. Yeah Notting Hill, it's the corner of Westbourne Park and the Leadbury. Oh wow so she's right by Leadbury. She is next door to the lift. Creme de la Creme up there. It's a really, and you've got Cor as well

and so many other Asian-styled restaurants now up there. It's incredible. So obviously it's her restaurant, but I can imagine you've been quite involved or not. Has she been like, dad, I've got this? Well. Does she run things by you? Sometimes, yes, and you know, ask for advice or what I would do in this case or you know what happens if this that or the other. So,

you know, that's really great but I don't go in there and say look you should be putting that on the menu or this isn't right or that. No, it's not. Did you teach her or did she go to? that on the menu or this isn't right or that. No. Did you teach her or did she go to? No, no. She did her own thing. She went to a hotel catering school in France and, you know, ploughed her own way. Not once did I have to intervene or say, look, if you want I can get you a job here or I think you should be doing this. No, quite on the contrary. She's very strong-minded. She's hence the name character or character of the restaurant. But equally Diego, her husband, my son-in-law, who's an absolutely amazing talent in the kitchen as well,

a fantastic chef. So they work really well together. But I ran it past them if they wanted to take over at Gavroche. Way in advance to me taking my decision to close the restaurant. And they didn't want to, they said, no, no, no, we want to run our own, do our own thing. Was that hard for you? Yes and no. Yes, because it would have been nice to continue.

Yeah, three generations. And they were more than capable of taking it on and keeping it, you know, going as a success. But then I see how well they're doing in their own restaurant and how happy they are. Then I think, no, actually, you've probably done the right thing. Does it make you think that

would you have done things different? Do you kind of wonder whether you would have liked to have had? So I often think about that and I think what if I had done the same as Emily and said to the old man, no you can stick your restaurant, I want to do my own thing. Where would I be now? Would I still be? And I think, you just don't know, but I think I would have probably done something like Emily and opened a small restaurant. Hopefully talented enough to have gained my own Michelin stars and my own recognition. In many respects, Emily and Diego,

because you can't really say it's just Emily, it's Diego as well, and the whole team, because they're fantastic. They're still carrying on the roux legacy as it were, because that's the third generation of roux. How many covers were there at the Gavroche? How many? It's a 68-seater restaurant.

OK. And we used to renew a few tables so we used to average around 80 covers a night. And how big is the character? 40. Much smaller. And is that more manageable? It's just a much smaller premises. I mean the kitchen is probably about the size of where we are now. For a professional kitchen it's quite small. So they couldn't really do much more than that. But it's still fine dining? Yeah fine dining. I'm not keen on the moniker of fine dining. But I thought you only got a Michelin staff. It was kind of low. No, no not at all. Can you explain some of the things that are, of course there's particular criteria for Michelin but what do you feel like are the main components

because yes what some people may presume is fine dining. It's yeah people like Anglotide Mountain St. John's kind of squashing that so what do you think of the the key elements of getting a Michelin star and part from grey food well, it's not a part from great because when you ask and I've asked several times and so is Emily and You know, we have spoken to Mitch and inspectors And and they will always say it's all about the food

food first and foremost, okay So and then consistent consistency. So it has to be consistent So if you are a st. John's for example, which is wonderful, but very very paired back It's you know, the the protein and the sauce boom or the roasted for example, which is wonderful, but very, very paired back. It's the protein and the sauce, boom, or the roasted bone marrow, which is fabulous, and the parsley salad and the grilled bread, boom. If you go in there on a Tuesday, it has to be exactly the same on the Saturday.

It has to be just perfect. It's just simplicity, perfect ingredients, and consistency. So that's the number one thing that they will look for. And it doesn't matter if you've got silver cutlery or they will present you with a wine list or a sommelier or anything like that. That's added sort of value as it were. But it is first and foremost quality of the food

and consistency and they say that is the same criteria for one two and three although I feel that when you move up to two then there's more of the service element and the little extras come into it and And then for three, it has to be the full Monty. You have to have everything. It has to be a blowout experience, which obviously is seen in the price. Do you eat out a lot? Yeah, I mean, I'd like to eat out more,

but every night of the week would be great, because I enjoy going out. I enjoy eating out. I enjoy tasting different food because I enjoy going out I enjoy eating out I enjoy tasting different food I enjoy I enjoy restaurants so I enjoy being in restaurants and so yeah. Where do you go locally? Locally Trinity. Yeah. Trinity downstairs if you want Michigan style and you know really really on point food upstairs for um because he has upstairs as well yeah it's just more casual i think i've only been to the downstairs well upstairs is really casual yeah it's chalkboard

great menu uh catch of the day and it's just grilled and served with a nice dressing or veg on the side where else in club do you go to shea bruce yes of course i love shea bruce still shea bruce i've probably clocked up about 70 odd visits. Yeah. Ha ha ha! We used to go every... it was a ritual. We used to go every Sunday night with Emily.

When she was... three, four, five, six, seven, eight. So all of those ages. And we used to go nearly every Sunday night. I mean, we were the first table in and they knew, I could book last minute because they knew I would be out within an hour. Because you had a young child. And we would go in and sometimes I'd pre-order

I'd phone them and say, can we have the, this, that and the other. We are the same person. Do people get irritated when you do that? Does your wife get irritated with you when you'd be like, do you send a menu to somebody if they're late at the restaurant and saying what do you want? See, maybe I should be in Richland Starship. I don't know. I could not be. So what was your order for your young daughter at Shea Bruce? Do you remember? Yeah, so we would share the

not the tornado, the Chateaubriand, Chateaubriand, chunky chips, and then, I can't remember what we would have as a starter because it was always changed, but they always had the Chateaubriand. And a side of interjection. Or a rib of beef or something. Yum.

So can you tell everybody what's going on? Because Le Gavroche is returning for Wimbledon. Sorry, I'm munching my five. I know, it's a condition. Five a day. It's delicious. So I've been running a restaurant at Wimbledon, the Championships now for I think it's 10 years.

Right. It's called The Lawn. And we do about 700, 800 covers a day. Crikey. And we do a full a la carte. So you've got a choice of four starters, four mains, four desserts, and then afternoon tea after that. 800 covers a day. And we do a full a la carte. So you've got a choice of four starters, four mains, four desserts,

and then afternoon tea after that. It's a huge operation, massive, massive operation. Are people quite stressed out because they're worried they're about to miss a game? Or is it they come for the meal and they aren't rushing you? It's tight because we open the doors at around, I think it's 10.30 or 11. Most people just have a couple of pims or a cocktail and then suddenly realize oh

I'd better sit down and eat and then you've got to try and get three courses in in... Before two o'clock? 1.30 it starts now. Oh my goodness. So it's tight but you do it. Yeah and if it's a men's game it's going to last five sets isn't it? Yeah you need sustenance. Well no, well yes but it means if you miss the first couple of games it's not too too important because you're still going to get a load of tennis. And what they do generally is they put a doubles game or a low seeded match first. So there's not too much of a rush. And some people just don't really care. Because they're eating your food. They're only there for the food. And so that's what we've been doing for the last eight,

10 years. I can't be, I can't remember exactly. But last year we launched Le Gavroche at Wimbledon as well. So we took a part of the Lawn restaurant and built a mini Gavroche. It's decorated like Le Gavroche and it's tasting menu only, so five courses, with pairing wines. And it's a really, really special experience. Jessie Booknell!

I think it's probably sold out. It gets sold out within minutes. And the front of house staff are gavroche, so recognisable. They know it. That's so special. Really good. Does it satisfy you to be able to do that or is it kind of bittersweet? No, no, no, no.

It really is a joy and that was exactly what I wanted to do with Gavroche. So close the restaurant, take back control of my life and back control of Le Gavroche because Le Gavroche was a monster and it was controlling me. And then taking Le Gavroche on the road as it were. And I'd taken gavros to sea so in two weeks i'm on the queen mary and we've got gavros at sea uh for a week uh and i'm are you traveling with yeah of course to get seasick no i don't get seasick okay where are you going on your on your cruise um norway uh love norway it's okay that's good that's good. I would have gone more med. That's possibly for next year.

Oh! Can I just ask? Norway in the summer is stunning though, isn't it? I mean, it's stunning all the time. Should I unwrap? Do you think if I unwrap it slightly? Let's have a look at this fish. Come on. You're not worried. I am worried. It's not hot. Oh, that's starting to get hot now. But it has been in for 20 minutes. It's not hot, is it?

That's not cooked. No. It's a little nice, a pointy line. Yeah, just look in that top drawer. Shall I open it? That's not cooked. I've turned it round, so... Can you fix Lenny's oven as well? No, I don't know why it's not because it's been on...

It's the recipe for two sea bass? Yeah. And she said 12 to 20 minutes. 12 minutes, I would never cook that size sea bass. You would never cook that size, would it? That's like half an hour, 35 minutes job, I think. I would have said at least. Anyway, I think it open, I think it will get the heat to it.

Well, whilst we wait. Sorry. It's okay we're going to ask you your last supper. You are going on a desert island for a very long time and you have your last supper. A starter, a main, a dessert and a drink of choice. Uh starter I'm going to go for souffle suisses. So that was the signature dish at Le Gavroche. It was on the menu in 1967. And I only once attempted to take it off the menu. And it was, yeah, it just wasn't worth it. Because everyone was complaining, saying, we've traveled from New York just to try your cheese souffle.

Why is it not on the menu? So why did you want to take it off? Because you were bored of making it. Yeah, I was bored of making it. And I wasn't a particular huge fan of it. I mean, I just... OK. What's in the soufflé, Suisse? So it's double cream, seasoned with... seasoned with salt, pepper and cheese. Which cheese? And then that tiny bit of mature cheddar and Gruyere or Emmental. So you cook the soufflé base once, then tip it onto the cream,

cover it with cheese, grated cheese and bake it again. So it's twice baked. It's about a million calories, well not a million, a thousand calories or whatever in a bowl. And I just thought, I want to move on from that so I took it off the menu and about two months later I put it back on the menu. I have a love-hate relationship with it put it that way. Have you cooked it since you? Yes. Have you ever cooked it at home? No, never cooked it at home. Funny enough I was doing an event with Emily in her restaurant last night and it was on the menu there. We cooked that for our guests as well. So I really enjoy seeing it every now and then, now, but yeah. But it's on your last supper because

of memories? Memories and sentimental reasons. Okay. And I do actually like eating it okay yeah just don't like this is this a fast labor-intensive there's a lot of work that goes yeah oh yeah it's a very very simple dish but there's a lot of work that goes into it if that makes sense yeah I do okay there's no more like there's four ingredients yeah so it's yeah so that's your starter I My starter is that, souplesse succes. Second course would be a roasted lobster with lashings of garlic butter. There's a theme to this, isn't there? There's a lot of fats. Yeah, garlic butter, smothered in it. When you think you've got enough garlic butter on it, put some more. Okay. Yeah. Where are you getting

your lobster from? Scottish. Okay. Scotland or Scotland or Brittany either or I don't want to don't of course. Okay. Did the lobsters come live? Yeah, oh my god. How do they travel in the little time? Oh first-class And What sides are you having with that? So sides with that would be chips, but big fat chunky chips. Interesting. Not the french fries. Fried in what? Duck fat.

Duck fat? Thrice, thrice rather, triple thrice. I've never had duck fat chips, have you? Yeah, it has to be in an animal fat, either duck fat or beef dripping or yeah, or even pork. It's gotta be cooked. You'd need a lot of that to make a chip wouldn't you? Yeah. It's okay if it's jars. Okay. And what else? Maldon sea salt on top and bernay sauce. My favourite. Thump my chips in. Oh I'm salivating. Any veg? Yeah. But there's a bit

of greenery there. The chopped parsley and the garlic butter. Oh my god, that's so funny. OK, drink? What are you having in your drink? I'm having vintage champagne. Which champagne is that? Ah. There are some Grand Marc out there, Tatin G being one of them,

and Comte de Champagne would be rather nice. I mean, I've brought a very nice bottle of... I know, he's brought a beautiful bottle. We'll have to use it to celebrate some funtasy. Really nice bottle of Paul Roger, which again is great champagne. But they're at Krug, obviously. How... A vintage champagne.

You're not Cristal? No. How vintage are we talking, like? How far back are we going? I love old champag talking? Like, how far back are we going? I love old champagne. Like, how old? 20 years old is not a problem. If it's a good champagne.

It will be okay. It will be fine. And it's been kept properly. I really, really do love old champagnes. I don't know if I've ever had a really old champagne. And- It just becomes so complex. The flavor profile changes completely.

Obviously there's a little less fizz and a vintage champagne, a really, really old vintage champagne, if you're talking about 15, 20 years plus, I think is better to be consumed with food. A younger champagne as an aperitif. So pudding, are you a sweet man? So I did a pastry apprenticeship so I love pastry. I love

making it and eating it. I wouldn't say I've got a sweet tooth. You say that but you did have marmalade for breakfast. Yeah, but it's homemade marmalade and it's not very sweet. Really? We, I say we, it's my wife's recipe. She cuts back a lot on the sugar. And so it's- Quite tart. It's very sharp, well not very, it's sharp and tart

and it's not too sweet. But no, I would go for pudding, I would go for a chocolate mousse. Okay. Really? Classic French- I thought we should go for a chocolate mousse. Okay. Really? Classic French cup. I thought we should have done a chocolate mousse. No, I wouldn't have done it if he could make it. Bollocks.

There used to be a place in Paris, where my daughter lived there, not this one, called Hippopotamus, and it was a big chain. They made the best chocolate mousse, and it used to go to this kind of side table and it was enormous and you just took as much as you want. I remember it was wonderful it was called hippopotamus it was steak yeah I think there's one that still exists in Montparnasse in Paris in fact I think it was the first one that opened in Montparnasse so delicious they put a little

flag on your steak if you wanted it blue, red, whatever. And then the chips. And the chips. And it was all fab. And then the chocolate mousse was the thing. And you just could keep... Of course you couldn't eat that much and they knew that because you'd be sick. If you were to cook any other cuisine, what cuisine would you cook? Or can you even? I can't pretend to be proficient in any other cuisine than French.

I dabble in it, yes, of course, like we all do, I suppose. But no. If I were to start my... Michelle, you can't be a one-trick pony. I'm sorry. I am, I'm sorry. If I were to start my career all over again, I did do six months in Hong Kong, which was fabulous.

I really, really enjoyed that. But I would do more, spend more time in Asia, in Japan, maybe in America, wherever possible. So we've talked about Clapham quite a lot because we're here, but are there any go-to restaurants, maybe you're going to say your daughter's restaurant, but of course. But any other ones that you absolutely adore to go to

in London or the UK? Yeah, gosh, there are so many. Nottingham, Sat Bains is one of them. Sap bains? Sap, yeah. I don't know that. We've never had that on here. Sap bains. What kind of food?

French? Yeah, well, based on French classical technique, I would say. But he has, technique I would say but he has Indian, he is Indian so he has Indian lineage and heritage so he brings a lot of that into his cuisine. That sounds really interesting. It's beautiful. So that's where I've been recently and I must say blown away very very good food. Gosh where else can I? Oh talking of Indian, Bibi in Mayfair. Okay. Have you been to Bibi? No. You want me to try and fillet the fish?

Yeah. Dissect the fish? Some things just take too long. A meeting that could have been an email, someone explaining crypto, or switching mobile providers. Except with Fizz. Switching to Fizz is quick and easy. Mobile plans start at $17 a month. Certain conditions apply.

Details at fizz.ca. Looks really nice, smells delicious. Just very simple. And white asparagus. Yes, mum's very excited about that. Yeah. That's my first. Really?

Right, is it going out of season now? No, no, no. But you don't see that much now in the UK. White asparagus is very German, Belgium, Northern France. But you're starting to see them more now in the UK. White asparagus is very German, Belgian, Northern France. But you're starting to see them more now in the UK. Oh, OK. I like them. I like white asparagus. Right, OK. I'll take one with lots of bones in it.

You don't need to. No, you don't have to. Please take the best, because I'm good with bones. So am I. I don't know if I'm good with them, but you are the guest. He's giving you the best bit. Oh, you're so sweet. Thank you. Do you ever eat any version of junk food or guilty pleasure food? No. Never. So never Kentucky Fried Chicken. So my first and last Kentucky Fried Chicken. Oh no. Was in 1976.

Thank you. What happened? And I'll tell you where it was as well. 1976. Brixton? Clapham High Street. Oh okay. The one on the corner there, Clapham Manor Street. Thank you. And that was, I was in Scouts in Clapham Manor Street. Yeah, that's lovely. And the Scout leader

or whatever it was called said, guys, there is a new restaurant that's opened on the High Street and I'm going to treat you to it it and he brought this massive great big bucket of Kentucky fried Yeah, no My first and last did you not enjoy it? No Wow, you're like the only kid that ever said that Like it didn't like it at all. So I don't want to go back there fast food I'm not against fast food yet, but I but I think it's almost become a go-to for a certain generation and it's just wrong.

And it's laziness. But people just don't cook. It's really nice, mum. It's really gentle, it's delicate and lovely. Shocking. Is it? Mm. Darling.

These asparagus need a bit of... A bit woody, aren't they? Mm. So I'll tell you a thing about why. These asparagus need a bit of... They're a bit woody, aren't they? Mmm. So I'll tell you a thing about white asparagus. Wow. I did cook them longer. They do need more cooking than green. I did cook them longer, but they taste quite bitter.

They do taste bitter. Why? They always do. The white ones have more bitterness than the green ones. That's why they need to be cooked a little bit more. And they have like two skins. Yeah. Oh God, should I peel them?

Did you not peel them? No, they're, they're. Enjoy that. Oh shit. Yeah, you can. They're a bit stringy, aren't they? Yeah. Oh God.

Asparagus, especially white asparagus, they need to be peeled. Oh, well I didn't. So peel them now. Who goes with a peeler on them? Well, now we peeled. Oh, I didn't. So peel them now. So who goes with a peeler on them? Well, now we know. Oh, actually, if you peel them, you're fine. Rape off the top.

The top, it's all right. So fast food, yes, I'm- You won't do it. I'm not a fan. For me, the idea of fast food is, you know, an egg, for example. So, I mean, MasterChef Professionals is kind of where everyone fell in love with you on screen

because you were kind and- I think it's because I was honest. Honest, but you, I mean, you were great, but like you were- But gentle. Yeah, I mean, I think some of the comments that I got at the beginning there was, gosh, he's harsh and gosh, he's tough. And, but, you know, I was upholding my profession and I was being a professional.

But these are professionals as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that too, absolutely. Yeah. But I was being honest and honest in my appraisals and trying not to be overly negative and to always give them something to hang on to. Yeah. And that's important.

You know, I always say, okay, it's very easy for somebody to find negative and to give somebody a load of shit, as it were, for doing something wrong. But a far more powerful tool is to tell somebody when they've done something right. And you should never forget that. So it doesn't matter how menial or small the task is, if they do it right, they've got to be told that they're doing it right. Well, you gutted when it all ended.

I was. I loved you the best. Over bloody potatoes. Yeah. It was ridiculous. Yeah. Yes. Can you explain what happened briefly, if you don't want to? Yeah, so I didn't fall out with the Masterchef production company or the crew there or anything like that. I'm I fell foul of editorial policy

or as People in the BBC call it Ed poll You and Gary Lineker, correct? So for a while I thought, who is this bloke Ed Pohl? I want to meet him. Yes, I was that naive. And I didn't have an agent because I kind of have a bit of a dislike in agents. So I read my contract, but obviously not well enough. And I just did my own deals. I'm grown up enough to understand, I think think but I didn't quite read that line. Anyway, the reason why we fell out was that I did an advert for potatoes. Albert Bartlett.

Albert Bartlett and their jolly good potatoes. So my argument was that my relationship with the Bartlett family preceded anything, any kind of contract that I had with the BBC or with Masterchef and we were in fact close family friends, which is true, and we go back loads and loads of years, way before Masterchef. So my argument was well I'm doing an advert not because I am now famous through Masterchef, I'm doing an advert because of my relationship which precedes any time with MasterChef and they said well no you're doing this because you are now famous because of MasterChef. So anyway

we're to and fro, to and fro, went upstairs and downstairs and I never got to meet Ed Paul but I understood about editorial policy and I can understand where they are coming from in a way in a way and so I left which was a shame because I really enjoyed doing MasterChef. I really enjoyed that nurturing and the the finding of new talent and helping them I carried on it was it't, you know, that's it, you're crowned, you get your little trophy and off you go. No, just I haven't stopped eating.

Do you know, I'm so flattered that you've eaten it. It's really nice, Mum. The fish is really good. It's delicious. It's really nice. It tastes very good, sea bass. The seasoning is glorious as well, so well done. You're very, very, very good.

Is there always something positive? Even though I've tasted the wine. Even though I've fudged up with the asparagus. No, the asparagus was not good. What will we always find in Michelle Rue Jr.'s fridge? There will always be. A bottle of champagne. Vintage?

For that moment, you never know. I love that. Always ready to celebrate. Well, yeah, that's life, isn't it? You should always be ready to celebrate. I like champagne when you're a bit miserable, it cheers you up. Well, it does.

Yeah, it definitely, there's something in it. Champagne is for anytime. Yeah, it lifts you. Even when you're thirsty, champagne is good. That's what Madame Boulangerie said. But salted butter. Do we have a French cheese in there? There is always cheese in my fridge. I could live off cheese. What is your cheese board going to be if we're coming round for dinner? There would be an assortment of goat's cheese because I love goat's cheese.

Blue cheese obviously as well, maybe a Roquefort, a Formes d'Henver, maybe a Stilton. You like blue cheese. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I love blue cheese. I love all cheese. The only cheese I dislike are the really sweaty, smelly ones.

Oh, I love those. Stinking Bishops, one of my favorite. No, no. But I love a good cheddar. A good quality cheddar. A good cheddar and a good gouda. What cheddar are you gonna have? When we had Luke Avrochka, we were really fortunate

to be able to get a seven-year-old David Stowe cheddar. So it's been matured for seven years. Seven years. Oh, has it got like the crunch? Yes, and it's buttery in flavour and the crunch of the crystals. It is extraordinary. So David Stowe and Cornwall and we used to get the seven year that they used to mature just for us. Wow, that is special. Very, very special. Are you ready for something sweet? A tiny slice? Well it doesn't have to be tiny but you know. Mum do you eat it with anything? Do you want me to get, is it creme fraiche? Oh my word. I know it's nice. This is Ruthie Rogers,

it's River Cafe. What is it? I'll let mum say it. Almond, lemon and apple pie. Michel, do you want a big bit or a small bit? That's beautiful. Thank you. Perfect, thank you. Bit of cream. Yeah. You served in the French military for a year, did you?

Yes, that's right, yeah. What was the food like there? And could you get involved? I did my 12 months military service. That was to keep my French nationality. Why? Because I have dual nationality. At the time, I didn't want to sort of waste a year as it was doing my military service.

Because you'd already started your apprenticeship, yeah. That's right. At the age of 16, right? So being called up to do your military service at the age of 18 to 20, that's when they used to get the letter. And I just thought, no, I'm in the middle of sort of learning, I'm cooking, you know,

why would I want to go and train to be a soldier? And I saw it as a waste of a year. And my mum and dad said well look this is you know an opportunity to keep your French nationality and dad said well look if you want to do it I can maybe have a word with a few people in the military circle and see if we can pull a few strings and get you not to waste a year. So I said okay in those conditions let's do it. So I was called up and did my three months of military training, so learning how to shoot, bivouac and march and all the other stuff

just outside of Paris in Fontainebleau. So military training for three months in the barracks and I can assure you that the food in the barracks in France was not the best. It was pretty dire. But then when we used to go out on bivouac, so wild camping or whatever you call it, with training sessions for several days, we would be given rations. Now the rations for the French army were incredible. You had your tin of meat and spam, corned beef kind of stuff and cassoulet and things like that. But you also had a 12 milliliter bottle of fire water, for want of another word, gneul we called it in French. So it's basically alcohol, 40, 50% proof alcohol. 40, 50%? What were you meant to be using that for, to drink?

Yeah. Oh, was it for wounds or something? No, no, no, to drink. And there was a bar of chocolate, and bitter chocolate, not milk chocolate, which you think, wow, you know think wow you know that's and and and let's not forget we always served wine as well. No. Of course. Did they have wine with lunch in the military? Yeah. That's brilliant. I mean French schools only stopped serving wine I think in the 70s.

Oh my god. To the children? Well not the Bambinos, not the kids. No, the teachers were drinking wine. Oh teachers, yeah, they probably still do actually. Different cultures. Yeah, but in high school would children be drinking wine at lunch before? I'm pretty sure it was the 70s. Probably around 16, yeah. Sounds fair. I mean I'm not advocating drinking, you know, I'm working or whatever, but that was the culture. So anyway, so you had chocolate, you had, and this fire water, I call it, it was really, really strong potent booze, bottle booze. So the rations were really okay, I thought.

So we were given blanks as well to fire and all that. And so I traded in my blanks for the booze and for the chocolate so for three or four days I'd be in a drunken stupor because I wasn't really fond and just playing around being a soldier. So anyway for three months we we did our military training and then dad managed to wangle it that I would go and cook at the Elysee Palace so I ended up being part of the brigade that cooked for President Giscard d'Esta

and President Mital. Amazing. So it wasn't a waste of time. No, there you go. Well, I wouldn't make this again. Oh, I think it's really nice. I was steady on, I thought it was all right. It's not even tasty.

Yeah, but she calls it a cake. But it's quite- I think your oven's off mum. I don't think it is darling, it was probably cooked. Tastes really nice, I'd have a tiny bit more actually. I like it. Yeah, it's got really nice taste. But it's almonds and lemon and lots of apples. Yeah but the lemon in it is really...

I like it. I like it too. Okay good. It's really nice mum and it's really hard having a Michelin yeah two Michelin stars. A pastry chef yeah. Yeah. No you know what's missing? What? A bit of calvados. Oh shush. Before we let you go Michelle Regina what would be a nostalgic taste that can transport you back somewhere. My grandmother on my mother's side was a fabulous cook. I mean really, I mean actually my mum's a fabulous cook as well, I mean really good cook. And Grandma Jacqueline was her name, she used to make the most amazing rabbit with pastis. You know pastis, the aniseed drink

that the French knocked back, especially in the summertime. And she used to- Rabbit and pastis. Yeah, you don't automatically think this is gonna be good. So the rabbit was totally jointed, because I adored this dish and the smell of it was so heady of aniseed.

And I'm not a huge aniseed fan and I don't like to drink pastis, so I was really curious. So I had to watch her make this, because to eat it, it was divine. And it used to fill the whole house with this wonderful aroma. So she joined the rabbit, got a whole rabbit, joined it down, put it in aluminium foil similar to the papillote. Loads of fennel, garlic and onion and then about half a bottle of pastis and you think this is bonkers, it's just going to be so overpowering and it's just not going to be nice. Olive oil and it was wrapped up tightly in a papillote and baked in the oven, I can't remember, for hours, but for a long time.

Any herbs which herbs? No, no just fennel. But there was the fennel tops as well. Okay. All that lovely green, yeah. But that's even more kind of aniseed. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, exactly. Wow. I mean, I don't like aniseed, but I'd like fennel for some strange reason. I'm with you. And it would come out and then she would bring it to the table and just open up this and it was just. And the rabbit was so tender but moist

and then all the lovely juices and you couldn't taste the pasties. It would just be sweet. Fat. Fennel and rich rabbit flavor. Gorgeous dish. How do you say junior in French? So you want the real story about behind junior?

Tom wasn't Chris and junior. It was named after my uncle, Uncle Michel. Who did Le Gaffroche with your dad. That's right, yeah. And then went on to head up the water side in and then water side in was passed on to my cousin, Ella. So I rented a flat actually on Aberville Road from my uncle.

He bought a house and put it into three flats. So when I first came back from my travels, I rented a flat off him. And I was getting lots of letters addressed to Michel Roux which I automatically opened but they were not for me they were for my uncle sometimes there were bank statements because we banked in the same bank sometimes there were bills sometimes the private letters so I put them together and just send them off to him or put them at the office of him to collect. And occasionally

there were letters from his girlfriends. Yes. So the girlfriends letters. How many did he have? Girlfriends? Girlfriends with an S. Okay. So some of them were just charming letters and you know, rather nice. Others were rather amorous and very cheeky. And you read them? Well, of course. Of course. Obviously. Well! Well yeah, I mean they started off, you know, I don't know, my mon cher Michel or my darling Michel, blah blah blah. So before you... curiosity gets the better of you, doesn't it? I mean, it did me anyway. So I'd have a giggle or whatever, but... so I thought, this can't carry on I've got I've got to do something here and

what broke the camel's back as it were was one day a Letter came in a dress to Michelle Rue and it was in a padded envelope and quite chunky I opened it up and there was another letter, but a pair of knickers in there. Oh my goodness me Enough enough enough is enough. This is getting embarrassing. So I from that day on I said right that's it I'm gonna tag junior onto my name so that this kind of thing is not gonna happen. So I put Junior on all the correspondence from then on. That is brilliant. Michelle Rue Junior, thank you so much for coming on Table Manners. It's been such a pleasure.

Thank you. It's really nice this apple. It is really nice. The apple's got so much flavour, I like it. Yeah. It's really good. You never have to cook for a mcganmarch, thank you. No, I'm relieved.

Oh, I love Michale Jr. They say don't beat your heroes, but I've met him and I loved him just as much as I always thought I would. The food was really, really nice, mum. Also. Yeah, and look, like it's just really stressful when you're cooking for somebody that's so good.

And he was very helpful. Yeah, the filleting. He held your hand along the way. Yeah, yeah, I learned all about it. He got a knife in and checked the tent. Yeah, and taking the back of the fish out first is the best bit. Oh. Yeah, you take take along the spine and there's no bones there. Got it. Yeah so I've learnt a lot today. I will be taking some of that tart to the studio now. Okay. Okay

because it was really tasty. Well done. Thank you. Thank you to Michelle Rue Junior who was such a fantastic guest. Haven't had a chef on for ages, have you? No. God, I love it. He loved food, didn't he? Yeah, don't we all? I wish I'd tasted that souffle suisse. Well, we're going to find a way.

I know, we've got to find a way of eating it. Right, we'll see you next week. Thanks so much for listening. You can also use the