Table Manners with Jessie and Lennie Ware - NYC Season - Ep 2: Samin Nosrat

Episode Date: February 6, 2019

Beyond excited that we managed to bag this week’s guest. I read her book the moment I got my hands on it and am addicted to her Netflix original series, 'Salt Fat Acid Heat'. Samin Nosrat loves food just as much as we do, so get ready for an episode completely full to the brim of food and everything to do with it. We talk about all about her new found fame, our shared love of ice cream, where we’re going wrong on Mexican food and her favourite London restaurants. We love Samin! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello and welcome to Table Manners New York. Oh, we'll just wait for the siren to go. In your own time. I'm really excited about this guest. I know you are darling. She, oh. It's like a really attention seeking siren. Anyway, I'm so excited about this person that's coming on the show today. She has the seminal book. Now hold on, I'm going to get the bits wrong. It's Salt, Fat, Acid, Heat. Her book is amazing and it's basically a kind of Bible and a science lesson in one about those four components being all you need to understand to be able to cook well. She will probably say this much better than me. Her name is Samin Nosrat. I'm probably saying it terribly.

Where do you think she's from? I think she's of Iranian descent. Armenian or Iranian? Yeah. She grew up in California. So I really liked the book and I was really interested by it. And then the Netflix show came out. Honestly, she's the most enthusiastic person I've ever seen try anything. Everything she puts in her mouth, she's kind of, she does more gestural kind of faces, facial expressions than me.

And I just think she's so lovely and enthusiastic and is a perfect person to be able to teach somebody about. Is she a cook or a baker do you think? I think she's everything she's she's a chef. Proper chef. Has she got a restaurant? I don't think so but I'm sure she will be. She's a professor I think she teaches I want to say Berkeley but we'll ask and she's now got this hit Netflix show which is so beautifully done it's four episodes you should absolutely watch it um I feel like anybody I've recommended it to has fallen in love with her so we managed because I thought she was in New York because I think she's a New York Times um columnist food columnist

so I was like oh she lives she lives here. She doesn't. So I don't know how we've managed to, it's serendipity. Serendipity. She's coming at four o'clock. So we didn't want to kind of do anything too heavy, but we wanted to kind of implement her theory. Now I thought you had to have the heat, the salt and the fat and acid all in one thing to make everything really good. I've later learned you don't. She's just talking about different ways of cooking.

I've done walnut fig and gorgonzola tarts. Little tartlets. Little tiny tartlets. And Alex has made pistachio scones. And you've done macerated... Macerated strawberries and lime juice with a little bit of lime zest and some brown sugar. And we've got some mascarpone with vanilla. Yeah, we've whipped some mascarpone.

So it's basically a kind of take on an afternoon tea. And we'll have it with a cup of tea. Yeah. And we'll sit down for a chat. Yeah. Samin Nosrat coming up on Table Manners New York Nice to meet you. How are you? Good, how are you? This is such a pleasure.

I'm so excited. Samin Nosrat. Nosrat. Yeah, oh wow, wow, look at you. Is it that? No, it's not even. I mean, you could. Okay, Samin Nosrat.

Thank you so much for being here. Thank you so much for having me. I don't know how we banked this because I honestly am so excited about this because, yeah, your book is... That you read the book, yeah. Well, the book is sensational and I've been enjoying the Netflix programme so much

and I feel like everyone needs to, I feel like everyone is. People, when we've said our lineup of this week, people have been the most excited hearing you. Oh, that's awesome. Like people are obsessed with you. It's very overwhelming. It's very weird.

Is it? It's super weird. I mean, you must have gone through this too, where you're some nobody and then suddenly you're quote unquote nobody and then you're suddenly somebody. I guess mine isn't on the same scale as you where you get a Netflix program. Yeah, I think. Because people maybe didn't know what you looked like when it was your book. Yeah.

It did so well. It was a bestseller. Yeah. But now the TV show must now. And I think the power of Netflix is crazy because it's global and it it's you know it goes live immediately in almost 200 countries simultaneously yeah and so it started the next day like the thing started the people recognizing me started the next day and I I guess I I'd like to think that people that are recognizing you are kind of nice oh they're really people because they're watching a cookery show and they like food yeah they love food everybody is is like i think i feel like i know you and they want to

give me a hug what's the matter yes me too more and more i was oh i'm so glad you wanted yeah because jesse i do it like builders tea we've got a we've got a in england builders always have tea that is so dark because they need to their caffeine. I don't know what it is. It must be. But that's perfect. Would you like some sugar? No, thanks.

Okay, fine. There we go. Wow, this is amazing. Right. So kind of it happened straight after that. When did it premiere? October 11th. So it hasn't been long.

No, a month. Yeah, a month yesterday. And life has gone crazy. I mean, my life is the same. It's just people have a month. Yeah, a month yesterday. And life has gone crazy. I mean, my life is the same. It's just people have gone crazy. Yeah, right. Yeah. Are you from New York?

No, I live in... So I was... My parents are from Iran and they moved to California in the mid-70s. And then I was born there... Is that before the show? Right before the revolution. Yeah.

And then I was born in 1979. Yeah. In California. So I'm... And I still live there. I grew up in the south of California, San Diego, right by the Mexican border. And then in 97, I moved up to Berkeley near San Francisco to attend university. What were you reading there? English.

And then I actually did my year abroad in London at King's College. Oh, wow. Wow. Yeah. And so I have like a little soft spot for London yeah and it's now one of the best restaurants yeah well it's still spring yes I know and what's so crazy is when I lived there it was 99 and you know also I was on a student budget and I wasn't a cook yet I wasn't a food person yet so I remember Wagamama was kind of new that was

really exciting I loved it and um I ate a lot of like shrimp sandwiches from um Pret a Manger like prawn cocktail ones yeah but other than that like the food was not that great and now London is one of my favorite places to eat somebody was just texting me he's in London yesterday and he's like oh we're at Roti King and I was like go to Dishoom go to Braun go to to rochelle canteen i was like these restaurants i mean when i go to london i just eat it's so good it's so well that's so nice to hear because i feel like california's got some really brilliant spots we do i mean and certainly in the bay area where i you know have lived for 20 years and where i learned how to cook i think in terms of

agriculture it's one of the best probably the best and most fruitful places in the world literally and yeah yeah yeah and um but I love going to see what other people are cooking and what's cool is for us our default in California is sort of California Mediterranean you know like this kind of like pastas and pizzas and like Italian stews and stuff. But I feel like you guys, because of just your, the, what I noticed in London was there's so much more sort of, um, facility for cooks to go into the Indian kitchen, to go into the Southeast Asian kitchen, and also to go, I feel like there's a connection between Britain and Spain in a way

that we don't necessarily have. Our default is usually French and Italian in California. But you've got Mexico. Yeah, we have Mexico. And so when I go out, you go out to eat Morro. Oh my God, so good. The best. Morro is so good.

And Morrito, yeah, so delicious. And Otolenghi. And Otolenghi. And Otolenghi. And so there's a way, I think we have parallels, but we just sort of like veer in slightly different directions. So it's really exciting for me because I've been eating the same food for 20 years, you know, and I've been working with the same cooks. And it's just nice for us to be inspired by other people's food.

But you see, I think Middle Eastern food's had a renaissance. I agree, I agree. Because of Otolenghi. And I think Middle Eastern food's had a renaissance. I agree, I agree. Because of Otter Lengi. And I think Otter Lengi's a big, I got to just do two events with him last week. Did you do it for his book? In California, yeah. And I got to do two. He's so, isn't he lovely?

So lovely. He just makes you feel like you're the most special person on earth. He really does. And yeah, he makes you feel so good. Yeah, and we had these two conversations and at the end of the second one we were on stage and i just was like i just want to make a point of saying you

know i grew up with all these ingredients in our home like orange flower water and pomegranate molasses sumac sumac that were so normal to us and it was a part of our cooking and then i learned how to cook in western european kitchens where there wasn't necessarily like a curiosity or an interest in the flavors of my homeland. But Otolenghi made those ingredients and those flavors sort of he introduced them into the global lexicon. And that's something worth a lot. You know, I think he doesn't get enough credit for that. Let's talk about your family and cooking in your family and how that was dinner time. And who was your mother was the main cook or did your dad cook too? No, pretty much it was my mom.

And, you know, my mom didn't have a job. So like that, it really was her job was raising three kids and shopping. I say I always joke that shopping for the groceries. And we spent 40% of our childhood in the back of the car, driving around Southern California looking for the right ingredients that tasted like Iran that reminded my mom of home. And so, you know, just the right kind of feta cheese, or flatbreads, or, you know, we would drive all the way to the Asian market to get all the fresh herbs because Iranian food has so many herbs in it. And she was an incredible, I mean, she is an incredible cook. And she spent so much of her time getting ready to cook and cooking for us. And she, we grew up eating, you know, every night there was a different Persian rice at the table.

Like this beautiful like mound of steaming rice, the Persian crispy rice, the tagli. Yeah, the yogurt, a, the tadeeg, yeah, the yogurt, a salad, you know, stewed meat. And so usually a typical Iranian meal is either plain rice with tadeeg and then a side of a khoresh, which is like a stew, mostly with herbs and vegetables and like some few pieces of meat.

Or sometimes the rices have other things built into them like there's herbed rice or my favorite as a kid was the lentil rice yeah with raisins which i loved a lot and my mom the barberry ones yeah the barberry sour today i was just thinking this is not your holiday but i was just thinking the barberry rice would make really good thanksgiving side because it's like these sweet and sour little berries. Barberries are like wild cherries. Tiny. Yeah, they're a bit like cherries.

But where do you get them? They're so tart. You have to buy them at the Middle Eastern store. You can get them in Peckham at the Persepolis. Yeah, Persepolis at Peckham. I love Persepolis. Now, I feel like, because I feel like I know you a little bit, but I feel like if you want to have a little bit of banana bread with your cup of tea.

Honestly, I do. I don't want to have a huge chunk of chocolate. There's one over there. Oh, like figs and blue cheese? Yeah. Yes. Okay. With walnuts.

Oh, yeah, great. So you just have what you want. Thank you, I will. It gives me such pleasure seeing you happy eating. Do you want to get the, should I get the mascarpone out? Yes. It's like you read my mind because I was like when do I get to eat?

It means that I can't now too. Just help yourself. Oh thank you. I'm going to have a little bit of that. She's our kind of girl. This is it. Would you like one? Do you want a scone?

Alex would be very pleased. Do you want to pass some strawberries as well? Oh yeah sure. Mum said that I shouldn't do it like this Felly, a ydych chi eisiau sgwn? Felly, a ydych chi eisiau sgwn? Felly, a ydych chi eisiau sgwn? Felly, a ydych chi eisiau sgwn? Felly, a ydych chi eisiau sgwn? Felly, a ydych chi eisiau sgwn? Felly, a ydych chi eisiau sgwn? Felly, a ydych chi eisiau sgwn? Felly, a ydych chi eisiau sgwn? Felly, a ydych chi eisiau sgwn? Felly, a ydych chi eisiau sgwn?

Felly, a ydych chi eisiau sgwn? Felly, a ydych chi eisiau sgwn? Felly, a ydych chi eisiau sgwn? Felly, a ydych chi eisiau sgwn? Felly, a ydych chi eisiau sgwn? Felly, a ydych chi eisiau sgwn? Felly, a ydych chi eisiau sgwn? Felly, a ydych chi eisiau sgwn?

Felly, a ydych chi eisiau sgwn? Felly, a ydych chi eisiau sgwn? Felly, a ydych chi eisiau sgwn? Felly, a ydych chi eisiau sgwn? Felly, a ydych chi eisiau sgwn? Felly, a ydych chi eisiau sgwn? Felly, a ydych chi eisiau sgwn? Felly good job well um i mean whatever it is what it is i'm just like but i think i misinterpreted it so i was like well when it was like heat fat well i'm doing it in the wrong order but i was like you must have that in every dish and then i was like fuck where's the fucking heat like i don't have

the heat in this so i'm sorry i could put chili i guess but then yeah i think i've been like then i was like mom we should do something with like sweet anyway yeah I think I've been like, then I was like, mum, we should do something with like sweet. Anyway, yeah, I think I've been taking it all a bit too literally. You're very serious. You're a good student. Well, I'm trying, but I do think your book is really brilliant for people that maybe aren't competent cooks. Like the fact that you generously offer like examples of how to dice a carrot and things like that and I just think that like for lots of people people take it for granted but lots of people may not yeah you know how to do that stuff yeah I mean the cups of rice I liked oh I like that one so helpful what's funny is the other day I followed I was with my friend and we were making rice and she followed the instructions

on the bag rather than what I had in my head yeah and the rice didn't work and I was and and then the next day I was with oh I went to the Bon Appetit magazine test kitchen and they were cooking with the same rice that we had ruined the night before yeah and I said is it just me or does that rice never cook up right and he said no it works fine for me and I said do you follow the instructions on the bag and he said oh never like you have to follow the ones in your head and I was excited it even gave me confidence to just do what I know in my gut is the right thing you know and so sometimes you're like but it said so on the bag it must be right sometimes recipes and so totally totally and it's nice to sort of give people the like I don't know freedom to know that that's sometimes it's not

their fault and also to realize that you have to use your common sense i think macerated i don't even know yeah they're very nice yeah thank you they are it works darling mom and I we argue about everything we argue every about food what people get is a compromise

which maybe is a good thing or not I'm not sure so no one's happy is what you're saying no no no I don't I don't think so

yeah I'm happy no I'm just kidding can I ask was your mum a generous kind of educator a generous kind of um educator a good generous teacher she definitely was but i didn't actually have that much interest in cooking as a kid

and so um what were you interested in reading i mostly read um i liked riding my bike just around the neighborhood. I like to make believe and I liked ice cream. Oh, sweet. But. Oh, you're still in love with ice cream. Oh my God. I still am so in love with ice cream. I love. Yeah.

It's my favorite. We were talking about it today and I was like, I've been on the whole journey. I've gone to the most. We don't have that. Oh, thank you. No, it's all good. I like that this podcast is called Table Manners. And I'm licking my finger.

No, me too. And it's with your mom. And I was like, are they going to quiz me on my manners? Because I'm pretty bad in some ways. Well, we always are. We always are. Do you have good table manners? I can, if need be.

If need be. What I like about watching you, I think your table manners are wonderful because what appreciation you have for the person that's cooked something. So when you're trying the ingredients, it's like you're so engaged and enthusiastic. And I feel like that's a fabulous table manner.

I didn't actually watch. I felt like you were eating perfectly, brilliantly. I think I mean, I know how to use the stuff right I think I could do it under like a duress yeah I could I never had to go in the states I think it's called um there's like cotillion there's all these things where they teach little young young rich white girls how to do the cut which knife yeah etiquette classes and I didn't go to that but my mom was we have our own etiquette like really intense etiquette in Persian culture so I'm definitely trained but I think living in Berkeley for 20 years I've been un unraveled a little bit are they quite we're quite I mean it's like the house so it's like where hippies came from you

know and so um and even Alice waters the wonderful woman who started the restaurant where i learned to cook shapenese she uh i remember you know it's a beautiful restaurant with all of the silverware and all the like tablecloths and napkins and you sit down and someone comes and takes care of you and you feel very formal and then i remember the first time i saw alice she always eats salad with her fingers because she just loves to pick up a whole leaf of lettuce and like see it and appreciate it and I was like oh like if Alice Waters eats salad with her fingers then I can eat salad with my fingers and and I feel yeah I just I feel like I like touching things with my hands I mean I don't put everything in my mouth like a monster

but I do love like feeling food and using all my senses when I eat so so do you feel like yeah that was where you got your most did you get more of your training from your mother or from Chez Panisse in the kind of way to cook oh absolutely at the restaurant for sure yeah um my mom taught us a lot of basic things and I definitely learned how to eat and how to taste from my mom but I didn't really have much interest in cooking before I ended up in the in the restaurant as a busser and then it just sort of happened you know that I was in this amazing environment so you just decided to go work in a restaurant because you had nothing to do you were at Berkeley and so I was so let's set

the scene okay yeah I grew up in the 80s and 90s in San Diego. My mom is a great cook. We were an immigrant family. So I mostly... We used to be first generation immigrants. So I mostly ate at home. And then I ate a lot of delicious Mexican food, sometimes Chinese food and pizza.

But we were not going out to fancy restaurants. So I didn't even really understand that such a thing as like fancy or world famous restaurants or chefs existed. So then I moved to Berkeley for university. And at my orientation, they said, oh, by the way, there's this famous restaurant here that you would probably want to get your parents to take you to. But I knew my parents wouldn't take me there. It's just not where my family would go is to some like fancy restaurant that costs $90 a person. So it sort of went in one ear and out the other.

And then the next year I fell in love with this like amazing young poet in my poetry class with rosy cheeks. And he was from San Francisco and he, we really spent a lot of our time eating and he showed me all of his favorite places to eat growing up. And he had always wanted to eat at Chez Panisse, which by now I sort of understood had some reputation. So we saved $220 over the course of seven months in a shoebox. And we went to eat there. And it's a it's a fixed menu. it's two restaurants in one and downstairs is the more

formal dining room with a fixed menu we're like well if we're only gonna go once let's go for the gold you know so we went down there and it was an amazing experience and the food was good but for me i just had never been anywhere that was like where every need was anticipated and you were just so cared for i felt like i was in someone's house you know it was but the in the best way okay and there's amazing like flower arrangements and you walk in and there's just like a pedestal with like the most ripest peaches like falling off and it's just a beautiful sensory temple and i felt that i understood that even if it didn't fit in in any like context of my life before that and so i just had this feeling like i wanted to be part of this and the dessert was chocolate souffle and i had never had chocolate souffle before and so the when the server brought it she said um would you do you know how to eat

chocolate or how have you had souffle before do you know how to eat it or would you like me to show you what to do and i said show me what to do like i don't? Do you know how to eat it? Or would you like me to show you what to do? And I said, show me what to do. I don't know what you're supposed to do. I just eat it. She said, you poke a hole with a spoon and you pour this sauce in. And it was a raspberry, like coolie,

you know? And so you, and that way every bite has sauce. So I did that. And she said, how is it? And I was like, oh,

it's really good. But you know what would make it even better? Speaking of manners, I was like, you know what would make it even better? Like it didn't I was like, you know what would make it even better? Like it didn't even occur to me that that was so rude to tell her what would make it better.

What would make it better? And I said, cold milk, because it's like this warm, you know, here we eat our warm chocolate chip cookies or our brownies with a glass of cold milk. Like that's an American warm chocolate, cold milk. And what did she say? And so she just started laughing.

And she's like, you want milk? I was 19, you know. And so she just started laughing. And she's like, you want milk? I was 19. You know, and so she brought me milk. And then she brought us each a glass of dessert wine to teach us the refined accompaniment. And it was just this very nice gesture. And so I felt so moved. And I wrote a letter asking to work there. So I came back a little while later. And I said, Oh, like, I want to be a busser and they said oh you have to bring it to the floor manager like here let's take you to her office so they took me to her office and when she opened the door it was the souffle lady and so she remembered me and I remembered her and also I think she was probably desperate because she was like can you start tomorrow

and so then so I started the next day and immediately like you're just walking through this restaurant that's it really is like a place that honors beautiful produce and excellent cooking it treats its cooks like you know they're the top of the pyramid there they're the most honored people and so I picked up on that and also I wanted to be a poet I was a writer like I thought I'd graduate college and be a poet and so it was occurring to me I maybe needed a skill to make some money so I um I just was like oh I want to be a cook and so I begged them to teach me how to cook and it took a lot of begging and resilience because at that time it really was like consistently winning best restaurant in America best restaurant in America, best restaurant in America.

Yeah. I mean, any, but everyone in the world wanted to work there. So I had to prove myself over time. I mean, I proved myself by not going away. How do we therefore, um,

well, between like busing and my apprenticeship and working there, it was about three and a half years. And then, um, they get paid. Um, well,

I, yeah, I mean, I, during the apprenticeship, I wasn't paid, which is pretty standard. But to me, like, I got an education that was far better than I could have ever gotten at a culinary school. I finished my degree by then. So I had two jobs where I sort of worked on campus. I worked for one of my former professors.

I worked for the old, like, university newspaper. And then, and then I did this, like, all the rest of the time, kind of hustling. I worked for the old, like the university newspaper. And then, um, and then I did this like all the rest of the time, kind of, kind of hustling. I'm a hustler. Like I was figuring it out. I was just doing everything I could do. And also I was 20, like you have all the energy in the world. And I lived in an apartment that cost, you know, my room cost $300 a month. So like, I didn't have a lot of expenses. I just put my head down and worked and um it was amazing were your parents happy with that I don't think so no because it's like otto langley yeah they wanted you to be an academic well he and he like dropped out of a graduate program same thing where I'd go home

and I'd be like I'm working at a world-class restaurant I'm learning these amazing skills and they'd be like how much are you getting paid or like shouldn't you go to like and that there were so many comments from different people in my family being like how about this master's program how about that phd how about you know because also ambitious for you yeah and also being an immigrant family yeah yeah being an immigrant family like i think for us you know education yes and like formal education is the way forward you know and it's really hard to think outside of that I think my parents in a lot of ways still don't really understand what I

do or or like exactly the breadth of it or you know what it is which now like it's fine now I'm so deep into it I'm doing my thing it's okay but also you never lose your education no no it's amazing you can always fall back on and I still go back so you're a professor now no I'm doing my thing it's okay but also you never lose your education no no it's amazing you can always fall back on and I still go back so I'm a professor now no I'm just a teacher no but I go back teach it not at the university I give talks and stuff but I mostly just teach cooking classes but um I the amazing thing about having this world-class university in like my town is that I just am like known for writing to different professors every once in a while being like can I come sit in on your class so every couple years

I'll go take it I'll just go take an amazing class and you keep learning and you keep figuring out how to and to me I'm just like a never-end I've never-ending curiosity so if it's in class I can learn and also now I have this amazing job where I'm a journalist. Like I get paid to go ask people questions. I get paid. And you can use your English. Yeah. What happened to the poet?

Yeah, the Rosie Cheats poet. Oh, he was so sweet. We were young. It was not meant to be. He broke his heart. Yeah. No, he broke mine. But it's all good.

Like he lives in Europe now. He's uh but it's all good like he's he lives in europe now he's married it's all good yeah and i have been in touch about no surprisingly like i'm on this like and i'm oh i mean i never use his name i don't talk yeah like uh it's i i know i can imagine he's like listening but it's fine if he doesn't do you have like time for a relationship when you're i feel like you're taking over the world at the moment I mean I have a great desire for one and I can make time for one I don't really I feel like I'm a little bit um I'm a little bit behind in the dating department like I don't know exactly how to do it I don't really know I feel very inept in some ways. It's very funny. I feel like I have like very intense and plentiful professional resilience.

Like I'm really willing to sort of ask for anything, try and fail, try, get up and try again, go do something I've never done before. But personally, I feel so insecure. Like,

no, I just don't. So I'm practicing. Your parents haven't sorted that out. No, no, they don't. They don't. Like, no, I just don't. So I'm practicing. Your parents haven't sorted that out. No. Introduced you. No, no. They don't.

They don't dare. No, and I wouldn't want that to happen. I thought it was kind of culture. Maybe someone else's parents. Maybe you. Okay. Okay. I'll be on the lookout for a nice cook for you.

Yeah. No, it can be not a cook. Probably not a cook. Yeah, I wonder about that. Yeah, somebody who does something else. You cook too many cooks in the kitchen. Yeah. Yeah, I wonder about that. Yeah, somebody who does something else. Too many cooks in the kitchen. Yeah, yeah. On each step with Peloton, from their pop runs to walk and talks, you define what it means to be a runner.

Whatever your level, embrace it. Journey starts when you say so if you've got five minutes or 50 peloton tread has workouts you can work in or bring your classes with you for outdoor runs walks and hikes led by expert instructors on the peloton app call yourself a runner peloton all access membership separate learn more at one peloton.ca slash running. Do you cook a lot at home? Well, I've been traveling so much for the past couple of years. I've kind of fallen out of, I've fallen out of habit.

The nice thing for me is at least when I come to New York and when I go to LA, which are the two main places I go to, I stay with friends. And so we cook at home, we eat at home. And I really prefer that to exactly what Nigella said yeah yeah and she said that she just if she goes away to say she would she'd just come back from Greece and she said well best thing is to eat with friends yeah totally together it's the best and so I feel you know like the friends I stay with normally have two kids so we make pasta together and we make bread together are you expected to do the cooking no it's more I'm it brings me joy you know I I don't it's not it was

funny the other day was my birthday and I went over to my friend's house and she was like I'm gonna make you this dish from the show I've really been craving these short ribs so I went over there and she had not put them in the oven early enough and so we have that so then so then and i was like and so she's like it's gonna be 10 30 before it's time to eat and i was like i'm tired i have to go to bed and so we cooked and i said can we just eat frozen pizza she had frozen pizza so we just ate that and then she like had a roast chicken and left and we made we made like this amazing thing and she was like i can't believe i invited you over and you're making your own birthday dinner and i was like it doesn't matter this is actually fun just like digging through the fridge figuring out what's there making a little chicken salad you know making

some green beans like um it's i don't care what we eat you know it's never about the what it's about the who and what the story is and setting the scene and just coming together and i love that best meal you cook what's your yeah what would be your the one is and setting the scene and just coming together and i love that best meal you cook what's your yeah what would be your the one that you're the most it's jesse's birthday and you're like this is how i know how to date this is my dating that's your that's your weapon it's true it is my weapon so like what are you gonna do um oh my god this is stress now i'm stressed i'm like sweating we can come back okay okay no i think what definitely so to me what i feel is the most luxurious is to be fed

or get to cook for like on many different um vegetable side dishes so i almost don't even care if like i would probably make a yummy like pasta cacio pepe you know with like um cheese and black pepper but then also just like would you be making your own pasta for that i think dry pasta is better and then yeah yeah and then so what's that cheesy it's like just cheese it's basically just cheese and pepper and garlic it's just like a super cheesy well co traditionally is um pecorino but i also sneak in some parmesan because i'm so you just grate it over the you well there's kind of a crazy wacky way that you do it where if you do it just exactly right you so what i'll do is i'll get the pan warm but not super duper hot put a little olive oil in put

a little bit of garlic and let it just start to sizzle gently like bloom and with with some black peppercorns and so that's all sort of like getting really aromatic and wonderful and then the pasta will be done so i'll bring the pasta over and i'll bring a generous amount of water with the pasta into the oil and so if i cook if you cook it just right like not too hot not too cold that oil and water will start to emulsify and at that point i start adding handfuls and handfuls of the grated cheese like really finely grated cheese and so then it turns into this like it's like it's basically macaroni and cheese it's like roman macaroni and cheese but um if you you have to do it just right with the right amount of water and at the right temperature,

and it gets super creamy and clings to the thing. And you don't have to add any cream or any butter. It's just cheese, oil, and water. You're saying peppercorns, but not whole peppercorns. Oh, or crushed. You can use a mortar and pestle. Quite coarse. I like it pretty coarse, yeah.

That's in the book, just so you know. Perfect. So that's your starter. Oh, yeah. well yeah that oh no and then at first i would probably eat like one well first first are we doing the whole thing yes okay with drinks okay okay okay okay do you drink i do i mean not a ton my parents didn't drink so it's just not a it was never my thing yeah but i do like like a glass of like fizzy wine or like a little i love cocktails that are very sour and bitter like i love negronis and stuff and so but i'm not good at making that stuff so probably i would just have

some fizzy wine some little snacky like a little pickle a little nut a little like crème fraîche and a smoked salmon on a thing yeah well like a crostini yeah like maybe with some like a little nut a little like crumb fresh and a smoked salmon on a thing yeah well like a crostini yeah like maybe with some like a little bean toast and some good olive oil it doesn't have to be fancy just like something salty to eat and then we'll and then we'll oh and then one million salads like a big um chicory like radicchio and endive salad I love caesar salad so although maybe on a date you're not supposed to whatever if you're both having garlic and anchovies you're both having garlic yeah yeah with like big torn croutons a big cacio and pepe and then so many other salads like and what I call salad I just mean vegetable sides like roasted vegetables drizzled with salsa

verde and like we made one in the show that has big crumbles of feta cheese on it and herbs because i love cooking vegetables but i live by myself and so usually for myself like i'm not gonna make a bunch of different things you know and i i take any excuse to make someone i'll always be like i'll make something really simple and then make like nine different vegetable side dishes because going to the farmer's market or there's a really just good produce market around the corner from my house just to go there and get a whole bunch of stuff and make roasted and grilled and boiled vegetables and drizzle them all and have all the sauces and the cheeses and the crumb that That's like my greatest joy. Do you think your quality of vegetables is good here? If you're at the farmer's market,

because we go to Greece, and as soon as we get there, the tomatoes taste like real tomatoes. It's the courgettes, those little baby zucchini we have that are just boiled. Beautiful. But that's Greece, come on. Yeah, but it's, I mean, it's not that far from England,

but everything tastes so much better. Well, also because, you know, this is just like the less distance food has to travel from where it was produced, the more delicious it's going to be, especially produce, because almost all produce has innate sugars. And those sugars, the minute a plant is harvested, those sugars start transforming into starches and so here in new york a lot of the produce comes from california a lot of the produce

in this whole country comes from california and so that's why it tastes better in california as it's traveled less far and so and so trust me i've thought about it and like and so um but it's just that's why i like this stuff is better in california is it's fresher it's not that it's like so much anything so i do think if you go to the farmer's market here or anywhere you're get it because you're getting fresher more local stuff it's going to taste better yeah yeah so dessert ice cream obviously what flavor and would you buy it in or would you Yeah, yeah. So. Dessert. Ice cream, obviously. What flavor? And would you buy it in or would you make it? Oh, I would buy it for sure. Homemade ice cream, I mean, I appreciate anyone who puts in the effort,

but there's something about, you can't with a homemade ice cream maker get the texture that I'm after. What do you do with worn ice cream? Alex's lemon. My brother's. No, but it isn't the texture. It isn't got that elasticity that maybe, but it has the taste. He cooks it. He does it with his ice cream maker that he bought with vouchers from his bar mitzvah.

And we've got the same ice cream maker. I love that. And it's honestly, whenever we give it to anyone, people say, we'll make the lemon ice cream. It's the best ice cream. What is the ice cream of your choice then? cream okay it's the best ice cream what is the ice cream of your choice then well it's very inelegant it's haagen-dazs coffee ice cream i don't think we get it in england i talked about the texture of haagen-dazs is like the

ice cream of my childhood it's so good yeah i just love the ice coffee ice cream why don't we have it in england coffee ice cream it was like a limited edition we don't because i think you don't like who wants strawberry cheesecake fucking get that yeah yeah yeah we want coffee yeah it's my favorite fucking does come in come in send the coffee ice cream to england oh i love it i love it i love it i love it is that the last no that's what you would cook for somebody or is that your last supper too yeah actually that's not so different I would add a roast chicken to my last you know what no wait I I don't know this is a really hard question no I know this is a really hard question there's nothing I would probably

ask for Mexican food for my last supper I love Mexican food so much from being in san diego yeah yeah i don't know you guys have everything fish tacos okay definitely guacamole any sort of fried white fish like just yeah um guacamole okay okay okay okay okay okay okay when we when we went to um mexico to film the show you know production is pretty intense so you're not like eating we were eating the you know we had a lot of burgers basically but then on the last night we were able to go out and we went to this place that someone told us to go to which was sort of the like taco place of a fancy chef you know it was his like everyday place and he had this taco that was unbelievable it was the best thing i've ever had it was called a pastor negro so in this part of the yucatan there's

pastora pastor so al pastor have you do you know the al pastor tacos yeah it's slow cooked pork that usually is done on a road on a yeah and then it. Yeah, and then when you order it, they'll just cut it off, kind of like a gyros, like a Greek gyros. It's actually descended from Lebanese immigrants who came to Mexico with the spit and brought the spit with them. And so then it turned into al pastor with pork. And they put a pineapple on top, usually, that drips down as it roasts.

And the pineapple gets all grilly and yummy. So if you're at a street side place and you ask for al pastor i'm always like get the pineapple too so they got like a piece of pineapple to put it in your taco so this guy roberto solis at his taco place kisin he makes this thing called pastor negro because there's there's a there's a sauce called ricardo negro there's like a black sauce it's not exactly a mole but there's a sauce that's traditional to the yucatan that's black and it's made by blackening chilies and onions and you cook everything till it's black and then cook it together and puree it and it's usually served with turkey and a hard-cooked egg and you make yourself little tacos which i thought was really extraordinary and

interesting but i wasn't like so excited to eat this like negro every day even though i mean it just it wasn't a taste i grew up with but then what this chef did was he took this negro sauce and he rubbed it all over the pork that then he turned into al pastor and this was so unbelievably delicious so we would we just went there to this taco place and i think this is a pretty typical way to eat tacos at least in the yucatan is like you go to the taco place and you just sit down and you order one taco and a beer and everyone orders one taco and a beer and then you eat and then the guy comes back and you order another and you just eat for five hours like one taco at at a time, you know? And so it was like, it's like tap, like how they do tap. Yeah, totally.

And you just keep going. And so we ate so many of these black pastora tacos. It was so unbelievably delicious. I just, I never, ever, it never, I, oh, I have to go back. I have to go back. So where is this place? He is in Merida, which is the capital of Yucatan.

And his place is called Tacos Quicin. His name is Roberto Solis. It was, I'm like, if anyone goes to Merida, I'm like, you have to go. And it's in a strip mall.

You're like, where is she sending me? It's so good. Yeah. I want a few more recommendations. Okay. So we're in LA. Where do you eat?

Ooh, I love, there's a restaurant called Botanica that's mostly vegetables that's so good yeah it's wonderful it's really good it's in Silver Lake yeah that's really good and not far from there there's um oh my gosh what why am I forgetting the name

there's this amazing Taiwanese restaurant oh my gosh of course Sonoratown which is i just wrote about them for my column sonoratown it's in la it's in downtown la it's it's um they have tacos and burritos but they're from sonora which is a northern region of mexico which is more known for their flour tortillas than their corn tortillas and they make them by hand there and they're so extraordinarily delicious and so they have these hand there and they're so extraordinarily delicious and so they have these little tiny um they're almost like a small burrito called a chivichanga

yeah that's made with stewed meat and cheese that's like all melted together and you eat it it's just so unbelievably delicious and the story behind it's really amazing because tio who's um one of the owners and the chef he grew up sort of on both sides of the border in the US. And his mom, both his mom and his dad were field workers packing produce in the fields. And so they would have to wake up his mom. And I think his parents split up when he was really young and he has five sisters. So there are six kids living in this trailer. And the mom would have to wake up every morning at 3am to get in order to get to to the field by sunrise and so she was on the she was worried that her kids wouldn't have enough

to eat so every morning she'd make like 12 or 18 of these little chivichangas with beef or beans or whatever she had and leave them on the counter so that was what the kids would eat all day and so it's this very emotional food for him is these little chivichangas and they're so unbelievably delicious they're so good you made me more excited about mexican food oh i mean i i feel like you'd maybe if you're not that excited i don't feel like i don't feel like i've ever had you maybe wow i feel so sorry for you no i do too because i went i think i was too young when i when i went there for like six weeks and we kind of didn't understand it it was like when i was 19 yeah and then we went to tulum it well that's different though yeah that's different i haven't been there but um mexico city

is really an incredible place to visit apart from when you get you get mugged did you get mugged well yeah but like in a very clever way he was a taxi driver in one of those beetles that i was heard i was told you weren't allowed to go in uh-huh um because they have uh numbers on the top of their cars because for the helicopters to chase them so they're like the dodgers so we just got off the um um bus from merida and me and my girlfriends have been traveling we had our backpacks and in those cars you don't have this seat in the front so i was like okay we'll put all our bags there because we're right there he turned on the beatles really loud they're all relaxed and singing along we're like nah nah nah nah and my mate turned to me she went you don't get this treatment in a black cab

do you and i said no you don't and then he was just basically pickpocketing us the whole time. And it got really loud. And I was like, well, this is like really loud. And I swear our hostel was over there. And then he got ratty. And then we got to the hostel and we went to like give in things.

And we were like, hold on. Oh no. Where's my camera gone? Did he take your passports too? I didn't take our passports, but I mean, it was really clever.

Yeah. I don't know how he did it because we were, I mean, apart from me closing my eyes and singing, Hey Jude, but it was, yeah, but I really want to eat in Mexico.

Oh, it's incredible. It's such an amazing place. But you haven't put any Iranian food. Oh, it's true on my list. Well, I don't love eating Iranian food out because,

and my mom actually, she's so good. And also so in iran like the most of the time when you go out to a restaurant what you eat is kebab cello kebab so rice and kebabs because that's not what people really cook at home and so what we grew up eating when we went out was we would drive to irvine to orange county and eat where a lot of iranian restaurants are. So it was about a two-hour drive from our house. And we would go there on the weekends to eat huge piles of rice and beautiful char-grilled meats and stuff. So that's more what my association with restaurants, Persian restaurants, is.

When you make the rice with lentils, do you put the lentils in dry? No, you cook them separately first first and then you put them in so you put them in with the rice in the rice cooker yes and some of them fall to the bottom and some of them stay in the middle and then with your oil or butter whatever you're putting in to make the do you call it tag tag yeah and then so that you have to cook the lentils first yes you have to do you ever cook with things like would you cook with green lentils or yeah you could use green lentils you could use i wouldn't use the like indian style doll no but you could use brown or green lentils for sure yeah um we are running out of time okay um i just want to say thank you so much for coming over thank you and just talking and

tasting i love you guys and being we love you so when you come back to london i will i will please and we will have you over because it's been such a pleasure thank you you guys are amazing Well, Samin Nosrat. So dynamic, so much energy, so positive about everything. I'm like an absolute star and I loved chatting to her. I loved her passion and her excitement for food. I'm going to do that ketchup pepe though and wait for the emulsion and stuff. It just felt... Well, I didn't realise if you mixed oil with water and made an emulsion. Well, there you go. Yeah. But you've got to get good pecorino. And she didn't mean whole

peppercorns. She meant ground pepper. But I just, yeah, I loved talking to her. I can't wait to annoy her now that I've got her phone number um I'm going to I think she'd love to be your friend I'm I'm going to be an eating friend with her that's it she had such the same taste in restaurants in London as me and um I really just such warmth Samin thank you so much for being on and I really am just so positive that we're going to get so much feedback from this episode of people just kind of being like, who is this woman? I need to know her. So go and watch her program on Netflix. It is, I'm going to say it in the wrong order.

I know I am. Salt, acid, fucking, what is it? Salt. Fat is acid. No, hold on. Salt, fat, acid, heat. Salt, fat, acid, heat. Salt, fat, acid, heat. Go and watch it.

Fall in love with her and try out some of her recipes. Jessie, your language was over-fucking. Was it? You were fucking everything today. I wasn't fucking anything, unfortunately. You were fucking this and fucking that. Fucking that. The Table Manners music you have been enjoying is by Pete Fraser and Peter Duffy

and our dear editor and producer is Alice Williams.