Table Manners with Jessie and Lennie Ware - NYC Season - Ep 4: Ian Schrager

Episode Date: February 20, 2019

This week, we have a New York Icon, someone who has many an incredible story to tell. Despite the fact that he didn’t eat ANYTHING and he thinks food can ruin a party (we totally disagree), the disco legend and hotelier Ian Schrager tells us all about the history of Studio 54, dancing with Diana Ross, where to eat chicken soup in New York, jail food and how he set up his hotel empire. Enjoy x Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Jessie, can I say you look really pretty today. You've made an effort, got makeup on, wearing black, my favourite colour. Thank you mum. I'll tell you why I've made an effort today, because we have the founding owner of Studio 54. And I didn't want it going through his mind that he'd be like, you wouldn't have got him. So I made a bit of an effort. And also, I'm with you. And to be fair, we don't have any excuses. We are just doing this all week. Yeah, I know.

And I always make an effort. Yes, you do. And I've learned from really shit selfies that I need to put a bit of makeup on. Lippy, but you look really beautiful. Thank you, Mum. It must be that pregnancy glow as well, yeah. No, you just look...

I think the hair dark is good. Yeah, because I've had so many greys. Anyway, today we have... Well, I've kind of already introduced him, but today we have... An icon. An icon, a New York icon. Yeah, he is.

A cultural icon. A style icon. And a scene icon. Yeah, I mean, he's like the king of. A style icon. And a scene icon. Yeah, I mean, he's like the king of the scene. The king of the scene. His name is Ian Schrager, and he was one of the two partners. Founders. Founders.

Yeah. Of Studio 54, the most iconic discotheque. Yeah. Kind of in the world. Yes. But especially in New York in the 70s he's had quite the journey from starting studio 54 the glamour with his partner Steve Rubell who actually passed away to then going to prison for tax

charges to then having to restart and now is probably one of the biggest hoteliers entrepreneurs in the world yeah and has some of the most successful hotels in the world and I'm so excited to speak to him about some of that time in Studio 54 and also about his hotels now and how he's still kind of the scene king. I'm wondering whether he's a bit fussy because we got an email from his publicist saying that he was quite, he needed a Starbucks grande, bold, half and half, half and half on the side that he pours in. And small Perrier's. Full fat Coke.

Full fat Coke. Now, we did have big Perrier's and then we freaked out, so we went and found some small Perrier's. So I'm interested to see whether that's come from him or... Whether he's a fusspot. Whether he's a bit of a fusspot. Yeah. What have you made him, Mum?

I've made Blinnies. Just because it's four in the afternoon, he's only here for an hour, just a little something to go with a drink. But I bet you he won't eat anything. Why do you think he's not going to eat anything? I think he's probably one of those people that does things his way. Yeah.

Right. Unlike us. If there's food in front of us, we will eat it. Yeah. We have Ian Schrager in Chelsea. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you very much. I watched your documentary. I thought the documentary was great.

Thank you. Were you happy with it? Yes. Because I feel like you must have had involvement in it us thank you very much i watched your documentary i thought the documentary was great and i mean were you happy with it uh yes because i feel like you must have had involvement in it because i did it wasn't the film i wanted to make right but because it came out well and because it had a drama to it and because i trusted matt you know i I went along with it I thought you came across really I thought for me who so I'm a singer first and foremost and then I decided to do this podcast with my mum and we invite guests over and we talk about food and food memories but it always kind of escalates into different bits and bobs but um and my new record that I'm making is very kind of um paying homage to this kind of 80s disco

I mean this you were in the 70s kind of when Studio 54 happened um but for me it was so exciting just to see those faces and to see like the world and I just kind of it just seemed like such a whirlwind and the fact that it was only, what, 36 months? 33. 33 months. And I just want to know about that party. I mean, I want to talk about your hotels and everything, but I just want to know about the party before you went to jail, if you're happy to talk about it.

The fact that Nile Rodgers said it was almost bigger than the opening party. You know... Diana Ross playing. I really wasn't in the mood for a party. Whose idea was it then? Your partner. It just took on a life of its own

and always trying to show a strong side. Yeah. But, you know, we're going to jail tomorrow. Let's throw a party. Kind of did something incongruous about it. And I really didn't want to go. I would rather spend time with my girlfriend at the time. However,

I thought if I didn't go, my absence would be very conspicuous, so I needed to go. Was your girlfriend really pissed off? Was she like, I want a night in with you? It wasn't so much that. It's just that it wasn't really a celebratory time. No, right. Was she like, I want a night in with you? It wasn't so much that. It's just that it wasn't really a celebratory

time. No, right. Was she a famous person, your girlfriend at the time? She was a fashion designer. And, you know, it just I think it just shows you how wacky the whole thing was for us to have a party before going to jail the next day it's crazy

and I bet the hangover was pretty bad the next day I'll never forget you know we were like I was kind of catatonic uh and as was Steve and you really don't realize until you actually hear the door slam behind you I I bet. But it was fun. Steve had a really good time. And I guess I had a really good time because he had a really good time. Well, it seems like with your partnership with Steve and Rebel,

and you were the kind of quieter, more mysterious one that was in the background, maybe. And Steve was like, he was the person that had, well, I mean, this is what the documentary says but you know he would he'd be there everyone knew him I imagine high-fiving everyone knowing everybody and there's that amazing but like the amazing clip in the documentary where Michael Jackson comes in and Steve's getting interviewed and he goes and he's chatting about the club and he goes hey Michael yeah come over and Michael comes over and he's chatting about the club and he goes, hey Michael, yeah, come over. And Michael comes over and he's like, hey, Steve always looks after me.

And it's like, for people watching somebody like me just to see that's your, that was every night, somebody or other, you must have been exhausted. Yes, it was when Monday came around, which was when we were dark, you know, Steve and I were just completely wiped out. We used to go to dinner and chat about things, but it was really a totally consuming,

like holding onto a lightning bolt. It's the only way I can explain it. Sorry, why was it called Studio 54? Because it was called Studio 52 because it was a TV studio. And for some reason, they called it Studio 52. And we just changed it to Studio 54 because it was on 54th Street. And people performed live there?

Before us. Before you. It was a theatre. It was a theatre, but then it was just DJs. We didn't believe in having performances because we thought you run the risk of stopping the party. And if you stop the party, you may not be able to get it started again. You know, there's a kind of, there's a momentum that builds up.

There's an energy, some inexplicable thing that happens. And so we would have moments during the evening that would goose the night, but they would never last more than a minute, and they would never stop the party. They were meant to enhance it, to push it to a new level. You know, when you're watching a performance, it could be very exciting, I suppose, but it's a very static...

Yeah, it's true. I mean, when I'm at a wedding, I like the wedding band for, like, two songs, and then I'm like, give me the DJ. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. So on those Monday nights, you and Steve,

you say you went out for dinner, was there, like, a place you used to go? Like, was there a particular meal that you would it kind of would be that you used to go to a place called frankie's and johnny's it was a steak place i've heard i was on the second second level i was i felt a little bit it was a speakeasy when uh um liquor wasn't uh legal and it was upstairs and quiet that's what you needed sit there and have a steak and just sort of catch up

catch our breath and that was the night that Time magazine and Newsweek magazine and all the magazines came out so we would go home and read all the magazines and see the photos the paparazzi photos.

Probably night at rest. But still kind of working, flicking through, seeing what kind of the results of... Reading magazines was enjoyable. Right. But it was just non-stop. It was non-stop for, you know, it lasted. I mean, the non-stop activity by us lasted for more than 33 months.

But, you know, during when the studio was open, it was just a non-stop whirlwind. Did you like the Studio 54 movie? No. Why not? It had nothing to do with reality. It was an exploitation. It was an exploitation. It was probably one of the only movies Miramax at that time did that wasn't any good.

It just wasn't good. I didn't like it. I didn't want to be a part of it. And so I guess having the chance for this documentary to come out, which you feature in a lot, and I think you come across brilliantly, there was more control there. And would you...

You know what it is? I didn't, you know... I wanted to do the film. I went and I brought in Matt Durnhour. I went in and I brought in John Bassett from London, who was a very accomplished producer who recently did Life in 12 Bars with Eric Clapton. And I wanted to do the film.

My idea of the film was to kind of connect all the dots. What happened? Why did it happen? And so on and so forth. But I trusted Matt, what happened, why did it happen, and so on and so forth. But I trusted Matt and I was willing to be completely open and honest, thinking that I'd be able to convince him if I didn't want to use something that was embarrassing to me.

You know, people forget the bad stuff 40 years ago. So why do I want to talk about the bad stuff? But that's like asking a fox, if he's in the chicken coop, don't eat the chickens. But once I started telling him about things, he wanted to use it. And he said, look, you know, it's dramatic and it's compelling and nobody ever really heard it before. And, you know, so my desire to be involved with something good I went along with it. It's a big day in America today it's the midterms voting and just to kind of go back to the documentary you said something you got the right of voting taken away from you

and you say how how when you don't realize when when you don't have that freedom and that it was awful. And I know that Barack Obama pardoned you, but does it mean that you've got your vote back? Thank God. Thank God. So you got it back only what, like two years ago? No, with the pardon. Oh, crikey. Can I ask, have you voted today?

Oh, crikey. Can I ask, have you voted today? You know, you do something like what Steve and I did. The punishment isn't only going to jail or whatever. It's taking everything away. It's like taking a replica, stripping your uniform, taking everything away from you. Part of the process.

But, you know, we showed that that process works for us you know we made a mistake you know we paid our price you know we uh picked ourself up and and went on and became successful again so we're kind of proof the system works and have you voted today yep okay good yeah i guess you'll never not vote again right? first time in a long time oh man you need to vote everybody needs to vote do you still live in New York?

yes and you are a New Yorker right? Jewish? yes we're family religious you know I'm not Yes. So we're Jewish too. Were your family religious? You know, I'm not. My family was somewhat religious.

My grandfather was a rabbi. Oh, right. Okay. But I'm more respectful for my heritage. And, you know, I observe the holidays and I want my son to have a bar mitzvah and but in in terms of a real religious and keeping the sabbath and things like that I don't do that you sound a bit like us yeah and we eat shrimp exactly because it's delicious so you you were brought up whereabouts in Brooklyn and you've got the accent i think you haven't lost it i thought you thought i was from london no i love your accent i hate that because people always say it

to us but you've got the most wonderful brooklyn accent it's such a good one it's so gentrified now brooklyn never thought i'd go back really do you live there now no No. No. But, you know, when I grew up, your goal was to get out and move on. Now people are going back. I guess the same way they went back 200 years ago. When it got too expensive in New York, in Manhattan, people moved to Brooklyn. So where did your parents come from? What's your ethnicity at the end? My parents were born here.

But their parents? My father's side came from Austria, and my mother's side came from Russia. So were your family big on Jewish cooking, Jewish food? My mother, yes. What was her best Jewish dish? I mean, everything. I mean, she used to make great gefilte fish. She did everything. You know, and my father really liked it as well we all we all really liked it and you know uh the house

smelled Jewish yeah I know that it's like my grandma's like that yeah it kind of always has the faint smell of kind of chicken broth. Something. Yeah. And, you know, so. Where would you go for good chicken soup in New York now? Oh, boy, I don't know. There's one restaurant downtown called Sammy's Romanian. I don't know if you've ever eaten there. I've never heard of it.

That, you know, there are restaurants that are kosher. Yeah. But it doesn't mean they make the best food this feels like you're in a Jewish Sammy's Romanian does he do other things good like chopped liver and yeah

I love Housel lots of garlic I've never had hay Housel's like grandma used to make it. It's like you can stuff the skin of a chicken and you stuff it with stuffing and then you poach it. We've got a cookbook.

That should go in the cookbook. Maybe, Halsel. So my friend who lives here, he's a nice Jewish boy and now he lives in LA. So I just sent him a care package of Ross and Daughters smoked salmon and bagels. They're the best. You can't get a good bagel in LA, I tell you.

So I wanted to know, because obviously you are, I mean, what would you call, would you call yourself a hotel-y, you're kind of everything, right? Well, I'm an entrepreneur. I guess you could call me a hotel-ier. Well, can we talk about your hotels? Because some of your hotels because some of your hotels

some of them well for me I remember you had the Hudson yes and I remember when my sister was living in New York and it was like

the place to go and it was those big that big escalator and you kind of felt like you were going into space or something like that and it didn't feel like a hotel

who designed it? Philippe Starck. That was one of his. But you worked with him quite a lot. And also the addition hotels you've, which I really, really love. Have you been to every one of your hotels? Of course.

What's been the hardest project? The Gramercy Park Hotel. Really? What made it so hard? Because it wasn't my normal aesthetic it was more of an intellectual exercise for me doing something much more decorative and baroque than what I had previously done and so you, I didn't have an instinctive feel about it. So I had to think about everything. And, you know, having to think about everything and having to, like, get a little bit intellectual about it because it was something I'd never done before very baroque very operatic very over the top you know where I usually try and do things very simple and uh

restrained provocative but simple and that's been happening since studio 54 when you decided to kind of hire the Broadway lighting designers. That was really a stroke of luck. Really? Yes. You know, out of, because at that time, that's what I call the garage age of nightclubs, where, you know, the technology had a garage phase, everything was being made in garages,

rock and roll had a garage phase, till big business took over both those things. At that time, nightclubs was a very young industry. You know, you painted everything black. You had a record player. You were in business. So there were only a couple of guys that were doing nightclubs at that time. Regimes was doing it in Paris.

And so all the people we could have worked with, the usual suspects, were told not to work with us for competitive reasons, I suppose. Right. So we had a very time frame where we had to get open, because if we had opened after that, everyone would start leaving for the summer. So we had to get open, you know, so people would at least get a taste of what it was. And so the lighting guy and the sound guy, there's only one of each. We couldn't work with us. So we had to pull something out of a hat. And going to Jules Fisher and Paul Moran's was really a seminal event for the place and for me

because I had never worked with someone so capable and so brilliant before. So it was very expansive for me. And having come from the theater, it was their idea to use fly rail, which is what you use to pull scenery in and out. It was there, intact. They said, you should use that. Okay. And everything, you know, went from there.

And was that how you had the, like, moving of the sun and the moon? So you'd kind of take people through sunset and to kind of, yeah. It just, it sounds like such a kind of immersive experience salt every sense everyone every you know touch feel taste smell sight everything and then those old bloody super djs in las vegas went and kind of bastardized all that you know you know how the thing is different the way if you look back you can connect the dots. You know, I think I used to pay my DJ $60 a night. I remember one time a DJ came in and had his name in neon and put it on a DJ booth. I practically jumped off the balcony to get his name off there.

You know, it was just a different time. Now some of these DJs in Ibiza, they make $25, $30 million a year. But when you look behind it, it has turned that business, the DJs, to become entertainment. And it's a different business. But then it was much more raw and spontaneous and you didn't have to know anything and you know Studio 54 cost me four hundred thousand dollars to do and when we did a second nightclub I didn't have a new idea that cost me ten million was that Palladium?

yeah and that was after you came out of prison and you did wow that's a big difference and how many years is that difference? Palladium was 85 8 years but Studio was the original idea which

has no correlation with the amount of money you spent and Palladium wasn't a new idea it was just which has no correlation with the amount of money you spend. And Palladium wasn't a new idea. It was just more, and it cost more. What is Studio 54 now? Do you know? It's still there. I think it's used as a theatre for long-running shows. It's still basically there.

All the rigging that we did are all down and the floor has been leveled. But it's still there. Who was your most exciting celebrity that used to come regularly? You know, everybody that was a celebrity then. Everybody. You came to New York, you stopped there.

Yeah. Everybody. So actors, singers, playwrights. celebrity then everybody you came to new york you stopped there yeah everybody so actors singers there was every major actor i mean every everybody was there i mean at that time you know could have been the rolling stones or it could have been mick jagger or john lennon could have been a particular thrill you know for me uh kareda sc Scott King was there I mean everybody and who was the best dancer yeah oh I wonder who I don't know I'd like to think it was Bianca Jagger she used to dance a lot uh with uh this guy Sterling Saint-Jacques who was a really good dancer. Everybody was there. I was in a room with so many big names and so many celebrities that you actually become numb. Everywhere you look,

there's a big celebrity, and you know what? Nobody can't. No. No. And they all mingle together. That's the beautiful part about the whole thing. Can you dance?

Yep. Do you still like dancing? Occasionally. Yeah. When you hear disco, does it send a shiver through your spine, or do you feel like, does it bring you back to that place? No, I like the disco music. There was a real backlash against it after Studio.

That maybe Studio was responsible for. Incredible. That a place like a nightclub would have such a long-lasting, profound impact. Yeah, it did. On music and on culture. Culture, yeah.

Kind of... Sexuality. It was integrated, wasn't it? Sorry? It was very integrated wasn't it? Sorry? It was very integrated in terms of race, gender, sexuality. So it wasn't like a gay nightclub. It was just mixed, yeah. That's where the energy comes from.

Nothing more boring than being in a room full of rich people. No, true. So that energy, combustible energy, comes from the sparks that fly when people who you wouldn't ordinarily see together or see socializing together are in fact doing that. It's so unlikely and that unlikeliness is what creates the energy. It's so thick you could cut it with a knife.

Exciting. It was just the energy was so palpable. I'm glad I got to experience it. What was the defining song for you that is Studio 54? There's a song I play every time I open up a place called The Way of the World. That's the way of the world. I remember it.

Who sang it? It was the sound of Philadelphia. Come to me in a second. Oh, I've got to look it up. For some reason, I've forgotten it. But I loved all of it. I mean, I think I Will will survive was a very prominent hit there are a lot of great songs a lot of great donna summer songs and donna summer what was this

do you remember the song that closed studio 54 like the the last song you played before i will and you did you did came out on top I wanted to I wanted to know because obviously this is I just want to hear about dancing and I kind of feel like there wasn't that much food involved in Studio 54 none

I mean it was drinks and drugs right yeah i used to think at a party that a food food at a party can't really help it you heard it okay are you jewish really i'm talking about a dinner party no okay no you're talking about a party you know like you know Because I think people are there for socializing and for camaraderie and having fun and meeting people. And so in the kind of like a 300-person party and all, I think, I used to think, and maybe I'm wrong, party and all i think i used to think and maybe i'm wrong that um the food can hurt it if it's not done well if it doesn't taste good if the service is bad then people come away talking ill about it but you know but if you have a dinner party yeah of course the food has to be spectacular people came late didn't they they'd have eaten their dinner and so people started it was late you

energized ready for midnight people started at midnight can i ask how the food was in prison was it just oh you could pick up scrambled eggs oh and they would all stick together place i was in they used to come around around and give sedation to some of the prisoners. So I guess they were very aggressive. So it was like trading with the pills and everything. Oh my God. The food was terrible. There was no effort.

It was there for subsistence. Terrible. How many more hotels do you have in the making at the moment? How many jobs do you have going at the moment of the kind of developing? We're working on about 40 in in total 40 you must be exhausted no you know what as you get um you know as you get older you're your mom yeah you know you kind of figure it out yeah you know what you're doing yeah yeah. Yeah. And, you know, you don't agonize over every issue. You kind of know the universe of possibilities. There's only a certain amount of finite solutions.

And you get more confident because you've been through it. And so I find that, and I can do, in working with Mariette, I can do much more than I've ever done before. It's much, much more expansive for me. So I can work on a lot more. You don't want to stop and retire and go and have big three months in Hawaii. I'm lucky I love what I do.

Yeah. And when you love what you do, Do you ever go on holiday? Yes. Where do you go? You know, I... One of your hotels? No.

Where would you stay then if you're One of your hotels? No. Well, in one of the hotels... Where would you stay then if you're not at your hotels? Which hotel? I would rent a house. Good answer. In Miami, I have an apartment in one of the hotels. Oh, nice. But, you know, I can go anywhere, like wherever...

You have to go where? We have homes, so we go to homes and we relax. And, you know, we have a young son, and it's difficult getting all the girls together when they can go with us. Have you just got one child? No, five. You've got five? So four girls and one boy.

You finally got the boy. Yeah. Mazel tov. And do any of them want to go into the family business i i don't know i have one that may you know maybe two i i don't care you know i want them to just be happy you know what's so funny when when i was growing up uh you know my you know my uh parents wanted a doctor and a lawyer and they got it you You were the lawyer. I was the lawyer. But I don't have any ambitions for my kid other than the being happy.

Yeah, I agree. Well, speaking of doctors, she got the doctor. I got a doctor boy, yeah. Who did make, and there's no pressure if you don't fancy it, but if you would like, the doctor made some banana bread. If you wanted a slice, you're welcome to have some. Otherwise, we some blinnies blinnies some smoked salmon blinnies with sour cream which i did make myself homemade would you like a little something to eat or not no no no okay but now you love starbucks uh or is it just like you went for the strongest. My manager went over there and ordered. The person went, whoa, that's the strongest we do.

You know, it's strong coffee. I think it's, I don't even drink at all. It's like more of a, just something to keep me busy, I suppose. And why do you only like the small Perrier and not the big one? I don't know. I like to take the bottle, chug it. Take a bottle, chug it. We got them for you. Oh, I didn't even see it I like to take the bottle, chug it? Take a bottle, chug it. We got them for you.

Oh, I didn't even see it. We've got your Coke. Basically, you are going to be up all night. But do you know what? We thought you were going to be really fussy and you're gorgeous. You're just very easy. Yeah, I'm easy. Yeah, you are.

Now, because you get to eat all over the world, because you travel, you have hotels all over the world, where is your favorite food destination uh it depends where uh in in new york uh it depends like for steak yeah okay so okay let's go with new york we're doing a new york special so new york some of your favorite places that you get to eat? Well, for steak, I like Peter Lucas. Oh, I've heard. That's amazing.

I mean, there are others, but that's the best. I like Nobu for Japanese food, even though it's kind of unique Japanese food. For Italian food, I like this restaurant called Patsy's. Where's that? It's on 56th Street. It's uptown. Is it fancy or is it kind of more low-key? Is it quite low-key or is it quite fancy? It's low-key.

I mean, there are a lot of big shops and celebrities go there, but they really just go there for the food. Okay. Jesse, we're going. What's your favorite sort of food? I like all kinds of food. I mean, you know, I like it all. Do you go out for dinner every night?

No, we stay home. You stay home. Very bad for my reputation. We stay home. And is your wife a very good cook? We have a cook, but she was a good cook. And we try and eat at home. And, you know, it's like at this point

of my life having done everything and been there and done that more so you know to me it's about loving my work and and loving spending time with my family what's on the menu tonight i don't know it's a surprise so it's a surprise you like it being a surprise but will you be like listen can you just do that meatloaf this week or whatever? Will you kind of make a few requests? Sometimes I go in and I ask for something specific. Okay. Okay.

What did you have for lunch? Oh, I had a salad with kale and chicken salad. Kale. Don't get my mum started on kale. She's sick to death of it. Does everybody eat kale in the States? They look like pieces of kale soon, I'm telling you. People are into health and well-being.

So we ask all our guests, as this podcast is called Table Manners, we ask whether you think you have good table manners. I do. Okay. And what's your worst table manner If you're sitting with somebody at dinner You cannot tolerate In the other person Taking food

Eating out of a platter Oh okay With their fork Not using the serving spoon That's very common in some countries Like we go to Greece And that's how they eat They share

They just pick in Sharing is one thing And they smoke at the same time as they just pick sharing is one thing and they smoke at the same time as they're eating sharing is one thing if you go in and you're sharing that's a different thing but you know that and eating from other cross-contamination you can't have it no you can't have it fine you know it's just a quirky thing that's fine it's good not everybody feels like that no starting eating before everybody gets served. Before you went to jail, did you have a kind of last meal

before you were going to go and have horrible prison food? No, no. You have to understand, you know, we were in a daze. We didn't know what to expect. Everything was unreal. We didn't think we lost our way because we were friends with the same people. You know, we weren't living in a very ostentatious way,

so we thought we had our feet on the ground. Little did we know that we had got completely intoxicated with the success. But there's nothing you can do to prepare yourself for that. So it's like jumping in the water and not knowing whether it's cold or whether it's deep. You're very wise. I mean, you're not bitter at all that you ended up going to prison. You're very accepting of the fact...

If you become bitter, then you've lost everything. Yeah, you've lost. It's true. That's the one thing I couldn't afford to lose. Losing my enthusiasm for life or, you know, becoming bitter is paying the ultimate cost. And so that didn't happen. Did the girlfriend at the time stick with it? Yes.

Oh, okay. So she was waiting for you. Yeah. And people visited you, family and everything? You know, for six months, we were in New York. So people used to come and bring smuggled dimes in so we could make phone calls. Did they smuggle anything else in? They would bring in new sneakers. New sneakers.

So we would switch. Oh, right. Clever. Things like that. How long were you in prison for? 13 months. You and Steve were in the same prison, though, weren't you? Thank God. They didn't split you up?

No. You could be together? Thank God for that. And you were great friends? Great. I thought that was... Never have another friend like that. You miss him?

Yes. You know, it had a devastating effect on my life. I mean, he died when he was a young guy. Yeah. But, you know, it had been so long ago, kind of getting anesthetized by all the problems and troubles that happen in life. It's true. But, you know, I was sad when he wasn't around for the pardon. And I was sad when I finally got a liquor license back.

Wow. Well, I loved the story that you basically would, you'd apply for catering permits kind of every night because the liquor license wasn't going to come in time for you to open in that like six weeks that you were trying. It wasn't technically a violation, by the way to open in that like six weeks that you were technically a violation by the way what we did but you know um yeah just to tell you we we were trying to be so protective i call it of our beloved studio 54 that we almost ruined our lives uh and so when when when they wouldn't give us a catering permit for that night,

we were going to take the risk of going through the weekend because we didn't want to hurt the business and then try to get a lawyer on the phone and try and get it on Monday. Is food important and the restaurants in your hotels? Yes. So you've got major chefs. Very important. Yeah.

Matter of fact, the people from, I remember when I first met all the people from Marriott and the current CEO of Marriott asked me, what's more important, the bar or the restaurant? The restaurant. Because it is a bed and board proposition. You know, you've got to have good food. Not only a scene scene but the food has

to be good so now you know when I first started I was really only interested in making a scene but now I take great pride in being involved with a restaurant that has really good food that when the food is put on the table and you're eating it is just really good to really delicious so I think and it looks beautiful and you want it to look aesthetically yes beautiful yeah not precious not precious but look nicely presented yeah you know yeah yeah because you say you weren't you weren't so interested about making did you say making a scene like it because I mean Studio 54 was like the most kind of famous scene and I I heard about Public which is a hotel here in New York

and correct me if I'm wrong so it doesn't have a reception it has people with kind and you you check yourself in or people don't help you with your bags and things like that it's quite kind of can you explain the reason for that because you go from doing studio 54 which feels so kind of elite it like it's exclusive to them public feeling kind of like you know everyone gets stuck in and it doesn't have that kind of if you're not on the list you're not coming well you know everything changes yeah cars change refrigerators change and so uh now uh you know we're just kind of stepping back and and trying to think what's really important to people what do they really care about do people really care about bellman when everybody's suitcases are on wheels and they're on wheels because you have to walk so

much when you're at an airport so you know i know when i would go to a hotel i would be bothered when i would come down into the lobby have to give a tip to somebody takes my bags outside didn't have to give another tip that somebody that loads it on the car didn't have to give another tip that someone that closes the door is that stuff important to me no do people need help when they come in, when they have a lot of bags? Yes, they do. So we're figuring that out. But it's really an idea of figuring out what's important to people. You know, I think when you come into a hotel,

every single transaction that you perform, if it can be done better with technology and without any friction and it allows you to get something cheaper, it's better to do it that way. You know, when people say, well, they want the personal touch, it's baloney. I mean, do people mind getting on their iPhone and getting a number from Google rather than calling up an operator and telling an operator, telling them what's the telephone?

They don't care about that. You know, it's like we have to unlearn certain things. You know, in China, everybody pays with the phone. Everybody. Here, it's slower. I know, it's slower than even in the slower than even in the uk because you have to get out of your old habits so this idea of coming in and checking in quickly and getting right up to your room it makes sense and if the check-in is done with a razzle dazzle to it it's fun like the

iphone is it's not an issue so it's just having the nerve to try something new and show people something they didn't know they wanted or needed. But if there's someone old like me, would they help schlep the bags in? We're going to have someone helping. For the 08s, Mum. Oh, there's someone there to assist you. Okay, there is. So if I don't want to schlep it out of the car and I can't lift it.

No, someone is there to assist you. It's easier. It makes it cheaper. It's smarter. And it's where things are going. Like it or not. Yeah. And that's what's going to be happening.

Does this place have a restaurant? Yes. It does. And it has a nightclub. Yes. Which is quite sceny. Yes. It's quite popping.

You know, the thing is, you come to New york you want to see the best of new york city nightlife new york city restaurants so the idea is go right downstairs it's all right downstairs and those places are meant to attract the people who live here because the people go to a hotel want to go with the people in an ogle of that people do go to hotels more than we do in London. You know what? Because we've talked about how much we love the addition. We go to the restaurant. What's it called?

The fucking... Burner's Tavern. Burner's Tavern. He's great, Jason. Burner's Tavern. I remember I took you there and it just felt exciting. We weren't staying in the hotel. I went there again because it was just nice.

But I remember having... Best mac and cheese. Best mac and cheese. It's quite phenomenal. We've talked about it on the show before. Jason's great. We're doing a lot of stuff with him all over. Are your hotels well lit?

Most hotels in New York have this very dim lighting. Now, I don't know if it's to hide your wrinkles or what. It's because of me. Is it because of you? You're the reason. I can't. You can't see. I have to put my iPhone on to see the glitz.

I always like to have the light. We don't use any fluorescent light, only in conditions. All right. And you don't want it like an old people's home. I understand that. No, but we like everyone to look good. So it is because of that. You kind of go for a sexy approach.

It's very sexy I'd like to be able to see if they do look good But I can't because it's so dark But sometimes we like to think that it's not too dark When other people copy it Maybe they make it too dark But we have different light levels during the day You know we have three different settings

So at night Well at night there's a certain Intensity And at 11 o'clock it gets darker So we look good different settings. So at night it's Well at night there's a certain intensity and at 11 o'clock it gets darker. So we look good. Okay. So you look good and you feel good. But I have to put my glasses on to be able to see anyone.

What are you doing in the public space reading at 11 o'clock? She's reading the menu. Trying to find the button on the menu you can see. And you know what else? You take this out and that's what I have to do to find the list. the button on the menu you can see and you know what else you take this out that's what i have to do everybody does that for the button on the list such a pleasure thank you this has been so romantic and wonderful thank you so much mom and daughter Mum, that was really interesting. He was lovely.

He wasn't a fusspot. At all. At all. He did drink his coffee, but he said he just likes to hold it in his hand. Almost like a safety net. Yeah, it's like a safety thing. But he was warm and fun. Twinkly eyes.

Yeah, twinkly. But I just couldn't get over the dim lighting in the whole of New York down to him to make you look good. Yeah, because he cares about that and sexy. I really enjoyed asking him questions. I thought maybe he'd be a bit bored of talking about Studio 54 but his eyes lit up every time we took him back to talking about it and that was such a pleasure to see you know something that has was kind of there was such a rise and fall with it and that he doesn't look back badly on that he kind of has such fond memories and it just how lucky to have had such a whirlwind and so exciting so

exciting and that he's still working so hard I loved the way he said that Studio 54 wasn't for the elite it mixed race gender rich and. And that's what made it the exciting melting pot and so dynamic, really. I thought it was very interesting. What a pleasure to have Ian Schrager on our Table Manners in New York. By the way, Jess. What?

The way of the world is earth, wind and fire. Oh, yeah, I like that when you start singing it with your disco hands. Of the world. Mum is now pointing her finger and swaying. Jessie, you'll have to get into that with a new album. Okay, I will. Thank you for listening.

I'm Jessie. I'm Jessie's mum. Mum, you are a star in your own right. And he thinks you're very lucky to be able to be with me working. Or was that the other way around? Mum, I feel like you're almost like Cheryl. Like you could just be Lenny. Yeah, I think I am. You're like the only Lenny.

Yeah. I mean, there's Lenny Henry. And there's Lenny Bruce. Or there was. You're the only female Lenny. Absolutely. Basically, you're Cher and Cheryl, and then there's Lenny.

Muzzle. Thank you, Jess. We are in the Lower East Side in Ian Schrager's public hotel, who, after the podcast, he kindly invited us to come for a dinner. So we have ordered the whole menu my friend Simon is speaking very loudly about his love life in New York which is pretty non-existent at the moment my mum's on her third Cosmo and she's eating a potato latke

make these latkes with smoked salmon. Mum, what do you think of the food? This is great. This is great. And the latkes have Russ and Daughters smoked salmon and caviar on them. Mum, are you having a lovely time? Three Cosmos in.

Did you just say three Cosmos in? I'm fucked. I'm fine. Oh, I'm fine. Mum. What? What do you think of the loo? That was a solid sign. I'm lucky I weeded the right place.

It was so dull. And then the boy there showed me the way. I have to say, Mum, I'm struggling with this light too because it's not helping the jet lag at all. I don't know where I'm at. I've lost the plot, Jess. That gorgeous boy had shown me that. Anyway,

thanks so much, Ian. Live and direct from the public hotel. Thank you. The Table Manners Thank you.