Table Manners with Jessie and Lennie Ware - Oti Mabuse

Episode Date: June 17, 2026

In Strictly fabulous news, this week we’re joined by dance goddess, Oti Mabuse! Oti was beloved on Strictly Come Dancing in the UK, but she is also now head judge on the Irish version Dancing With the Stars - on top of that she is an author, presenter, podcaster and this week she has announced the wonderful news that she is pregnant with her second child! We heard all about Oti growing up in Pretoria and the delicious South African food her family would cook, being a destined dancer from age 4, competing in Blackpool from age 11, being best mates with gorgeous friend of the podcast Johannes Radebe, having more than double the invited guests turn up to her wedding, eating shark in Iceland, plus we discover the real meaning behind the name Oti! Thanks for popping over Oti, we can’t wait to try a traditional ’Seven Colours’ dish when we see you next. Oti’s latest book ‘Slow Burn’ is out now. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello and welcome to Tabin Manners. I'm Jessie Ware and I'm here on it. Well, there was just thunderstorms but now it's blue sky. Make your mind up London. Yeah. It's kind of a sunny day. How are you, Mum? I'm okay, darling. I was going to wear a lemon shirt and I'm glad that I didn't come down in the same outfit as you today. Oh, well, I'm in lemon. It's very strange. Sorry, do you think it's telepathic? It's very weird. I don't know. Does anyone else sink their clothes with their clothes with a lot? It's very strange. It's very strange. It's very strange. I don't know. Does anyone else sink their clothes with their parents? Maybe you can let us know because this happens a lot. Does your daughter sink with you?

No. No, because I'm not wearing horse t-shirts or shorts. Yeah, I'm definitely not wearing them batty riders. I tell you that she's wearing. Do you know who I see? Who? Oh. Oh, always in that way.

You're saying, colour. Producer Alice, can you get on the mic quickly, please? So you've just said, go on. I always sink with my twin brother. I mean, that kind of makes sense to me that you're twins, you're like genetically, you know, very... Combined. But I, I mean, yeah, you're my mom.

Yeah. And you're very close. That's very close with your brother. Yeah. Oh, okay, nice. But maybe it's because I've got such exceptional taste that you've inherited that from me. Maybe it is.

Maybe I will be shopping in Wallace and Phaise 8 and East. And actually, I already shop in Eminus. Sahara now. Sahara, okay. We have Oti Mabusi on the podcast today and we're both really excited because we're so fond of her. So fond of her, long time admirer of her dancing and her stature and her wonderfulness.

She's a star. She's, I think, the only dancer to win consecutive Strickley's. She's amazing. She's now a writer. She's written this book called Slow Burn, which is, sounds really sexy and gorgeous, about two dancers that have a past. And she's also gone and done this trip back to South Africa with Reverend Richard Coles.

How interesting. I wonder how they became friends. Was it through Strictly? Possibly, because he was on Strictly, although he went very early on. And, yeah, she's coming on today to talk about the book, to talk about the documentary. I think she's just got some new very, very exciting news that she's just announced to the world. we will hear from her. And I am cooking.

What have you done? I'm doing something that I think I haven't done for a few seasons because I think the last time I did it was with Rose Matafeo. Alison Roman, who we do a lot of on this podcast, it's her slow roasted chicken with tomatoes and oregano. And you basically cook a bird on a lower heat for two and a half to three hours. Hold on how long is it been on? Okay, it's been on for over two and a half hours.

but you put loads of tomatoes in there, two garlic bulbs that you cut in half, and then fennel seeds. And then you add at the end, when it's resting, you add a bit of vinegar. Have we got bread for dunking? We've got bread for dunking from, I mean, people that are in South East London

will know about the Lourisham Italian deli. Never heard of it. It's the best. When I was writing my first record with David Kumu, he lived right around the corner and we'd go there and get these beautiful sandwiches and like espressoes and stuff. Anyway, it's such a gorgeous deli.

And you're supposed to toast. the bread. No, no, no. Alison, I love you. You know I worship the church about some Roman, but I'm just going to use nice fresh bread.

Yeah. And so you just dip. And then I've just got, you know, Alison's go to herb salad. You put any herbs that you've got in the fridge with lettuce. So did you appreciate all the herbs I sent it gave you?

Mom, no, I already had herbs. So thank you. So I'm just going to have to have herb salad for the next year. Okay, good. With lemon and olive all. And then you've done pudding. Yeah.

I've made a mango and passion fruit Cheesecake. Right, Oti Mabusi coming up on Table Manors. Oti Mabusi, you're here. Looking glamorous, fabulous. Beautiful. You've just had a bag of crisps. Yes, I did.

And you're telling me all about the Irish Crists. I know. Come on, hit me. I'm so obsessed with them. I'm obsessed with potatoes in Ireland. Just potatoes, right? Is this from working on Dancing with the Stars? Yes.

So they have potato bread. They, like, they've got incredible butter. It's called like Carrie. Kerry Gold. Oh, my God. Yeah, it's great. It's like drinking milk. It is good.

And they have crisps. I love O'Donnell. They are like my favorite. But everyone there does love Tato's. Yeah. And it's like their national. Like it's their heartily. Yeah.

What's the difference between an O'Donnells and then Tato? I know. It's like it's thicker. It's a different cut as well. I don't, I kind of like the flavor to explode. old at me and so they really do that What flavour did you just have? Salt and vinegar. The best. That's the only

one. It's my worst. What? Absolute worst. What's your favourite? I would cheese and onion. No. I can't regret. I'll do cheese and onion when I'm on my own. In the privacy of my own I'm not socialising. I'm just not kissing anything. No, well, there you go. So they have really good ones. Tatoes

have also really good ones and I do think it's cheese and onion that they like. I'm not sure but it's like a blue one. And then they are keyogs. Keyogs, which are, they taste more potato-y than flavor. But all of them are really good, no MSGs in them. So the flavors are, like, more natural. Did you realize you were such a potato lover?

No. Until I went to Ireland. No. So can you find your potato cakes in London, I mean in the UK now? No, I have to go to Ireland, and I stuck. And the nice thing about Adonels is they'll send me boxes. Great. So I'll just pack loads of them in my bag.

I think I had like two packets. I'll just pack loads in my bag as a snack and then I'll just eat them. Well, I guess that leads us on to rate your carb. Oh, God. Okay, so potatoes, pasta. This is Phil Wang's favourite game, by the way. We did not invent this.

Potato, pasta, rice, bread, noodles. In order of favourite. It's potato at the top. Potatoes number one. I can eat all versions of potato. Fine. Mashed, crisp. Potato, like, oh, I love potatoes.

least favorite, I would say, noodles. So that would go five. Oh, really? Oh, don't judge me. Am I being kicked off? No, no, no. No. It was his number one. Oh, sorry. Was it his number one? Yeah, of course it was. He comes from Malaysia, darling. Don't they carry like parasites? Do they? Yeah.

Yeah. Well, like the noodles and the pep, I'm thinking, you know, I'm thinking those two-minute, I don't want to name brands, but those two-minute ones with flavors, yeah, they have parasites in them. They're not. Are you very into your health? No, my husband is East European and basically they just eat everything from the ground. And so anything in a packet

that is like full of colour and full of flavour, he's like, no, I'm not putting in my body. So what's your favourite Romanian dish that he cooks you? He doesn't cook it for me. His mother does it and is called Sarmale. And it's basically, it's delicious. It is chopped onions, chopped garlic, in mince meat and they wrap it around a cabbage leaf.

Yum. Yeah. And then they let it roast for like a couple of hours. And then you can have it with like sour cream or yogurt. You never tomato based. You can make the sauce out of tomato, but that I think makes it more Italian then. So the East European side of the world, they wouldn't do that.

Does she live near you? No, she lives in East Europe. How often does she come to cook these cabbages? Every two, three months. Oh, that's good. Yeah, yeah. And the nice thing about them is that she does them in like lunch boxes and then you can freeze them. Oh, wow. And then when I'm like, I'm too tired of just go to the freeze and then I'll just take two or three and then I make them for my husband. He loves it. They eat a lot in the Romania. They have like four cost meals. It's soup, then it's cold meats, then it's your salmale or your main dish, and then it's dessert. Great. What are the Romanian desserts like? cakes. Lots of cakes. Lots of cakes. Like, but fruit cakes. So, or they'll have, so we'll have a minced pie

with meat in it. They would have it with jam and some cream in it. So I had to learn to make that because he doesn't like sweet things. He's very specific. Um, yeah, so it will be, maybe chocolate cake, but like a little bit of chocolate or it would be cocoa with something that looks like chocolate. Did he take you out for dinner on your first date? No. We went to dance practice. Oh. That's not romantic. What attracted you to him?

Oh, gosh. So many things. So many things. Is he a Latin dancer? Yes. So, okay. We'll get back to the first. Slow Burn, the book,

is about a sexy Latin dancer. Not him. It's not about him. No? Yeah, no, it's not. Your book, Slow Burn, is to tell the people about what it's about. It's very racy,

kind of exciting, sexy, gorgeous. It's a spicy romance about, spicy romance. A spicy romance. I love that genre. About a couple.

So the guy is an Italian world dance champion, very macho, you know, leading men. Vito? No, not Vito.

The opposite of Vito, I would say. Vito is very sweet. Sweet. Yeah, he's like a puppy. Okay, so are we going for the one

that got kicked off. Javard? No, no, There's no one on Strictly. Okay, fine, okay. All we can say, it's a combination of all of them. But it's no one.

Actually, this person has not been on television. Thank goodness for that. But very macho, very leading man, very this is my way. It has always been a winner and very toxic in these ways. Good bottom? Very good bottom. Essential. Essential for Latin.

Nice, ball of skin, yeah. Yeah. Mama's boy. Very big mama's boy. And then he meets a girl. She's also a dancer. But she is going to have to stop dancing because she has to go home and she has to go take care of her family. And the family were like, there's no future in competing. Let's just run the dance school.

And 10 years later, well, sorry, the first night they have a, you know, a fun moment. She leaves, she takes a jet to flight home. And then 10 years later, they bump into each other. and he still remembers her because that was the best night of his life and she still remembers him because she was like oh you've just gotten a reputation now and so they clash and they clash

and they don't get along and then they do get along and then they clash and they clash it's giving it's giving strictly ballroom yeah it's giving off campus yes and I like those two together

yes okay great that's the best description okay great I've finished off campus a day. Me too. I've got to watch it. Mom. It's the girl from Mallory Towers, so I've been watching Mallory Towers with my daughter. And now old, what's her name?

Daryl's all grown up now. She's grown up. So are they at university? They're at university. It's very kind of coming of age. Okay. And it's that ice hockey world. Garrett Graham.

Ice hockey world. And it's very, it's sensual. So it was sensual. In your book. Yes. Is he a tango champion? which is his dance? So he's dances the Argentinian tango.

Oh, I love that. Yeah, so his mom is from Argentina, and then his dad is Italian. Oti, what was your best dance? Was it the Argentine tango? No. Are you ballroom? No, I'm Latin.

So you have Latin and Borum. So you have your Samba, Chacharama, Pasojaev, and then you have your ballroom, which is your walls, Venus, Walls, Fox Strad, quick stuff, blah, blah, blah. And then we get the off Latin and Borum style. So there's the salsa, the Charleston and the Argentine tango. And that was your...

No, I love the samba. Samba was my thing. I'm obsessed with the samba. I love the roots. It's a dance from Angola, you know, and then those kind of roots were taken over to Brazil and then to America and then to the UK. So I love the whole story of it.

I love the outfits. I love the cultural reference that it has to me being African as well. So it was always a way I could express myself The best. When you were younger in South Africa, was that always your dance that you wanted to go to? No. It was the ramba. Same, another dance from Angola.

That's a sexy. The rumba's the hardest, by the way. It's the sexiest one, isn't it? It's really hard to get right. It is hard to get right. It's hard for men, isn't it? Yes. Because it's the men show off the women, I think.

I love that. I just think she's going to. I watch, you know, I'm an expert. I should have been one of the, present is definitely. Oh my God, you didn't get the call, Sal. I didn't get the call. No, it's difficult because it's exposing.

It's also difficult for men because they have to move in a very flexible, sensual way. But they also have to show, I think Sherley describes it as a horizontal desire for a vertical movement. So you have to look at this woman. Oh, horizontal desire for a vertical movement. Oh, it's a horizontal movement for a vertical desire. know which way. And so is she saying you basically, you're shaking.

Yeah, exactly. But you're dancing. So you have to look at them with desire. You have to look at them with like, so it's the eye contact, the facial, yeah, okay. And the hands and the bodies. Yeah, I understand. When they go away and when they come back and like all of that has meaning.

Now to say that to, for example, a rugby player, they'll be like, what. Yeah. Whether you can say that to someone who can act because they can interpret the story. But it must be fun in Angola. Apparently they dance in the streets. I want to go to the streets. They do the rumba in the street.

Yeah. Just like in Argentina, they do the Argentine tango in the street. Yeah, you see that all the time in Argentina. This brings me on to your TV show. Okay. You're going back, you're doing an odyssey. Yes. With Reverend Richard Coles. Yes.

An unlikely pairing. Can you explain to him? Well, no, he's wonderful. Yeah. I didn't realize you were friends. We are really good friends. Well, first we met on Strickley. Yeah.

And about 10 years ago now. And I love to have deep, meaningful conversation. And he's the same. So we could sit and just be in a room and just talk and talk with a bottle of wine. Spiritual stuff. Spiritual life. I mean, he's a pastor. He's a reverent.

He's gay. He came out as gay. He was in the communa. Yeah. He was, you know, but then he just lived that rock life. Yeah. And I was at a transition where I was, I just. came from

well Germany South Africa he was very interested he's his husband who passed worked in South Africa and helped a lot of the children and the women who had HIV AIDS so he had a really deep meaningful

connection to South Africa and then we met again in the jungle and spent three weeks there and we had those conversations which we completely forgot that you because you forget you're on camera and we just had those meaningful

conversations, those spiritual ones, those, because I'm at a point where sometimes I'm like, is, is God a thing? And he's like, yes, O T, God is a thing. And I'm like, what about Jesus? And so it's those conversations that we would have, just the two of us. And every time he has to convince me, I'm like, but I'm having a bad day. And he's like, yes, God does a lot of bad days. That's okay. So on this channel four documentary, how many episodes is it? Four episodes. Can you explain to everyone what it's about? It's about you returning to South Africa. Yes.

So it's about, I'm going back to South Africa with my friend Richard called, and I am introducing him to things that I love about the country. But as we're driving, and it's like from Johannesburg to Cape Town, it's a 16 hour drive. But then we go Durban and then we go Porte Le Trebeja, it's called. And then we do the middle of the country as well. There are places that I've also never been, like Drakenzburg, meeting a boys' choir, seeing them how disciplined they are and how talented those boys are, going to the countryside,

getting on a helicopter, and just flying over Lusutu, but then standing on the mountaintops, and then finding out the culture wars that we used to have as different black peoples, the Zulus, and the Indabelles and the kings and the royal families, things that I didn't even know about and some of the fights they had and the tensions that they still have today. So all of that was introducing him to that but also for me to find out more about

another part of South Africa that I'd never learned. We met some incredible people as well, new dancers that I'd never seen yet. So we pretty much danced everywhere and the rev hated it. He was like, oh my God, yes. He's like, please don't tell me all South African's dance. I was like, yep, all South Africans dance.

We have some sort of cultural dance. And we danced, zuni dance, Casa dance. We did the first man, so the Kui San, their descendants. They have their own cultural and special dance, which we did in the middle of nowhere in the desert. And he loved it because then he started going,

who's your favorite football team? And they were like, us now! So he had good conversations with the kids as well. It was just a beautiful journey, really beautiful journey. Did you eat well? I think South Africa, it's a hidden, it's a secret how good the food is there. It's so good. It's so exceptional.

It's so good. And it's mostly meat. Yes. But the meat is exceptional. The bride. The brie. The lamb chops and the steak. It's so good.

And the fish king clip. But you can't get here or butterfish. When I'm my husband, he's like, have you ever eaten a vegetable in your life? Because he would get a. a plate full of meat. And then he's like, oh, I would really like a salad. And then the salad would have meat in it. And then he was like, can I get a side?

And then the side would have meat in it. And he's like, no, I just want a tomato. So it's lots of fish, lots of meat. We went to a fish town actually on the show when we actually, where we actually caught clams. And we bried the clam and we had that at the bead. Bride the clams. Yeah, literally there with a bottom of wood.

How do you bribe a clam? So basically, you catch it. and it's not alive anymore and you base it with butter, oil, vinegar Did you take it out the shell? No, you leave it in the shell. You leave it in the shell. You slice it in the middle

and then you just let it marinate. We won't let it get some on that one. My husband's the worst barbecue in the world but he's a man that thinks that he must barbecue and I'm like, just leave it to me a mum. But barbecue is different from Brigh. Yeah, explain the difference. It's the fire.

So the fire must be flaming hot. Like our Nando's in South African, the Nandoos here is complete. Like when you go to South Africa, oh, you see just fire from the Nando's. So it's that fire and you get the smoke inside of the meat. Okay. A barbecue is like hot, it's a hot plate, right?

Yeah. So it's not. Well, Bryce are even harder to cook on them because you have to be really, really good at it, right? Otherwise, you're just going to burn. Well, it's not charcoal underneath then if it's so much flour. So it is charcoal, but it's... You cook it earlier?

Yeah, you have to be. kick it earlier and but the flame must be going and the meat has to be really close together so that the juices stay together. Wow. And how long would you cook a clam for on the briar clam for? That didn't take long. It took about 20, 25 minutes and it was so good. It was so, so, so good.

Can we take it back to Pretoria? Okay. Where you grew up. Who was around the dinner table? We know one person was around the dinner table, but who was around the dinner table? but who was around the dinner table and what were you eating? What's a memorable dish from your childhood? So mom, dad.

So dad, that's why I asked you, why I sit here. Dad usually sits here. Mom sits on the other side of the table opposite. Mozzi, our middle sister, Pamelo and myself, and then my grandma would sit on the other side. Are your grandma live with you? Yes, she did before she passed. Which one? On my dad's side.

On my mom's side, passed away, unfortunately. I think straight after Mutsi was born. So yeah, but on my dad's side. You're close to your grandma. Very close. Because me and my sisters have a 10 year age different. I always say that. I always make it longer.

Me and Mutsi are 10 years older than me. No. So she's nine years older than me. And my other sister is seven years. And so they started dancing nine, ten years before I was around. And so because they were already really good. and we're traveling overseas and we're practicing. You're on a woman.

Yeah. And took care of me, which is great. Oh, so your mum traveled with them? Yes, because they need the person to be with them. And so, grandma stayed at home. And I stayed with grandma. And so important. So important.

They are. She were helping me this weekend. Yes. Oh, amazing. I'm jealous of that. It's so wonderful. I keep calling my mom. I'm like, please, please come.

She's like, what's the temperature? And I'm like, it's 12. She's like, no, don't call me. I'm not coming. You couldn't come today. You wouldn't know if it was winter or summer. Every time I call her, she goes, let me see outside. I'll come in July.

That's it. She's like, July, August. Then I'm out. So what was a memorable dish? A memorable dish, which I think is still, and will forever be a memorable dish. It's called seven colors. So basically, you have to have seven different colors of food on your plate. So we have white, which is pub.

What? Pab, which is maize meal. So it's like a powder. Like foo-fou. Is that the same as mealy meal? Yes. Yeah, similar. I only know friends from Zimbabwe who have mealy meal.

Okay. Yes. So it would be pub. And then you'd have your meat. Yeah. Whatever meat. Usually you'll have like steak, chop and worse, but we'll say vors. You have chakalaka.

Chakalaka. Yeah. That sounds like a dance. So it is, it is, oh my gosh, chopped vegetables. We're talking carrots, garlic, onions, with lots of spices, paprika. Oh, it's so good. And peppers, carrots, and then you add baked beans over. Good God.

Like tin baked beans? Like tin baked beans. And there have to be baked beans, not kidney beans, not pinto beans, not black beans, not blank be it has to be baked beans so do you fry the onion first fry the onion first and then you add everything then the garlic then even the paste and then you have which paste the tomato paste okay then you add more tomatoes okay then now you're test to me and then you add carrots because they take a bit of time to cook then you can add your peppers and they chopped up very small yeah so long long strings Okay, fine.

So very long streaks. And then you add your spices, paprika, cuba. Okay. It's a bit like a stirri spice. It's a bit like a stirri spice. Yeah, but it doesn't come out like a, it comes out literally like a relish. Okay. It's quite thick.

Chaka laca. And then at the end you add the baked beans and then you have to let it cook. But you can also make it spicy. Some people like it. I know Johannes loves it's spicy. He once made it and my mouth was like a disaster. It was on fire. fire. Do you like hot?

No. What would be your Nando's? My Nandoes would be Peritema. What's that? What's that? Is that a different one? No. It's like sweet, sweet sour. It's like sweet spicy. Where'd you get that? Is that only in South Africa? No. It's here. Who's had a peritamer here? Guys, you need to come to the Peritama side. It's like...

Is it like off menu and you're like, I want a peritamer? It's like not hot Because I can't do hot anymore Because in case the baby eats my food So it's I mean I'm on the lime Peritama

So it's between medium and hot No it's between mild and medium Okay Because she's a selfless mother That wants to kiss her child Yes But when she's not around me I'm a hot girl

I do hot but if she's around me I can't Because she might You put a lot of chill in Yeah Are we allowed to say congratulations. Yes, you want.

Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you very much. How are you feelings? Exhausted. Oh, babe. Exhausted. It's hard the first three months.

The first three months felt like, like it felt like I signed up for London Marathon. Oh, babe. I would wake up and I'd have to call my age and I'm like, I just can't do the job anymore. I'm so exhausted. I would just be exhausted. And then I was nauseous.

I was in the car. car, I was vomiting. It was just like, yeah, it was a tough one. The car sickness is horrendous with them pregnancy. I found that. And you also can't tell anyone, right? So when you're vomited, people think you're just hung over. We're like, oh yeah, did you have a good night last night?

I'm like, no, and I can't tell you why I feel sick. Oh, God. Yeah, so it was really, really tough, but I got over it now. When are you June? November. So I have to beg my mom to come. Not long. No, not long.

So six months? Yeah. Yeah. How old's your little girl? She's two. Two and a half. So it's perfect, really. Yeah.

Yeah. And she understands, we kind of let her know. She walks past me and she just, to my belly, she goes, hi baby. And then she walks every morning. She's like, I'm like, you know what's inside? So you can't jump on mommy. Because I'm like that type of mom. I'll do like strictly stuff.

I'll throw in the air. So she can jump on me or we wrestle. And I had to completely stop all of that. And so now she goes, baby's in my mouth's belly. And then she lets me go. Is she a good dancer? Yes, against my wishes. Oh no.

Well, I mean, it's in, it's in the family. It would be hard to avoid it. You're both dancers. Yes, but all four. So me, my sister, her husband and my husband are all professional dancers with dance schools, both on television. Have you got to dance school now? Yes.

I have a dance school in Park Royal, the OT and Marius dance school. And I've rehearsed there. Yeah, I did rehearsals for my music video there. Yes. Yes. We always, we always, my husband has cameras and she goes, you know, this is, I'm like, yes. Why didn't you to tell me I went to to meet her? It's a great, it's a great space.

Thank you. Thank you. Now we've had it for six years now. We really love it. We got it actually during, while I was on strictly. It was nice and we can use it. that and now they've continued to use it but we have artists come over and rehearse because of the peace and quiet and it's like in the middle of an industrial area and then we have our kids

who are competitive kids when you were dancing on strictly yeah every week do you have to change your diet to keep going because the stamina you know i think or do you lose weight whenever you're you're going to lose weight anyway but it's not even a conscious thing i think the show has so much pressure to it that you eat what you can and and when you can and when you can genuinely because you're running around during the week when you're with your pro great because they allocate eating times and then you could eat whatever everyone was really relaxed about it but on show days it does get quite hectic where you have an incredible team of runners that go you haven't had lunch you haven't had dinner or runners who like follow you with your with your shoes and dresses and

they're like here's a snack, orange or a fruit. Because you've got to keep your energy up. You've got to keep your energy up, yeah. Just being in the audience, I needed to keep my energy up. I'm telling you, it's bloody long day. It's so long. Oh my God. I went to the one where you sang, which was kind of, I took my best friend.

It was the greatest day of her life. Because she met everybody and we met all the dancers. Yeah, it was wonderful. I'm going to get the food together. Okay. We're having, have you got it? gone off anything since being pregnant? No, why you ask me now?

I'm worried that I'm going to give you this. Can I have butter if the worst can mine. I can give you whatever. Cullivert. Oh, I'm not feeding you cauliflower. Fine. Thank God. That's it.

God, that's an interesting one to go off. I can't stand it. The smell. Yeah, I understand the smell is a funny one. The smell is cauliflower. Okay, there's no cauliflower in sight, babe. That's it. Thank God for that.

That's it. Right. You can keep on chatting once day. Yeah. So how was it? I want to, so does Johannes cook for you? He did once when we had. He did once. He goes to a takeaway. When he was on, he told us he goes, Jesse, didn't he go to a Turkish takeaway every day, Johannes? Was it Turk? Filipino. Filipino takeaway every day.

Well, because if he was to cook South African food, it genuinely does take long. Yeah. But to be honest, I also like takeaway. I think probably because him and I, we didn't grow up in a, like, we didn't have all of these things around us. Yeah. And so now we're like free to just run. Yeah. It's like kids in a candy store.

Yeah. So we eat. I also, I'm bad at takeaway. I love a wing stop. A what? Wing stop. What's wing stop? I'm obsessed with you too because everything I say, you're both like, what's that?

I don't know what? What are you mean? Perry Tameau? What do you mean? Wingstop. Wing stop. Where is wing stop? It's everywhere. It's in Berkshire. It's in Berkshire. Good. It is fried chicken but different flavors so you'll get like a spicy mango or you'll get like a really, really, really hot but fruit flavors. Like six different flavors. You can get... And is it just the wings? You can get wings, you can get tenders,

you can get little chicken bites, you can get different types of fries. Why I miss this? Because you're eating healthy food in the country. kitchen. But I have to admit that I think Kentucky fried chicken is the most delicious thing on the wow. Yeah. You have not tried wingstop. I'm going to try wingstop immediately tonight. You have to. It is so good. What other takeaways do you like? I'm very so specific. So Nando's, I would, I don't eat anything, anything. I don't like any, no, sorry, not Nando's, McDonald's. I can't eat anything else except them like spicy chicken. That's the only thing I can eat at McDonald's. Okay.

Okay. Yeah. So I'm like, uh, Nando's, it has to be a double chicken wrap. Peritama or hot. Okay. And the baby's not around. Right. With peri fries. Okay. Five guys, it's a small cheeseburger. Right. With pickles and grilled onions. Do you cook as well as order takeaway? So much. Yes. I know it sounds like I don't cook. Yeah. I love cooking. What's you? If we came for dinner, what's your best dish? Ooh, I'd make you a South African dish. Okay. Go on. Tell me. But then I'd then I'd. make a different type of chicken. So I maybe make you butter, butter garlic chicken.

Yeah? Which is like loads of garlic, loads of butter. Everybody's a nice sauce as well. Can you recommend a good South African cookbook? Mm. No, all of them. All of them.

Can you tell I don't use South African cookbook? No, because you know it. Yes. You know it. Did your mum teach you? No, she refuses. My mom is such a good cook. Oh my God.

When I just had the baby. and she cooks really healthy stuff. So I was able, like I felt warm. You know, when you have soups that make you warm inside? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I was like, could you teach me? She said, no. Oh.

She went to someone I know. Yeah, she just went, no, you make your own recipes. You figure it out. You go by your soul. I was like, Mom, it doesn't help me. So you're cooking soul food every day? Every day. So I would make you that.

I'd then make you some chakalaka because you probably never had. I'm dying for chakalaka now. I'd make you seven colors. Yeah. So we'd have a potato salad. You'd have your beetroot. You'd have your butternut. You'd have your corn.

You would, it would be a feast. It would be a feast. What is celebration? If you're having a celebration and say it's a christening or a wedding, big banquets, does everyone in your village or your neighborhood come? So it's not just close friends. No. It's everyone open to everyone.

Our wedding had 200. people invited only friends. Yeah. 450 people were at our wedding. Where was the wedding? Did they just turn up? They just, so like you, I would invite you and you'd, I'd be like, oh, mom is your plus one. But mom's like, yeah, but I can't leave my best friend.

That would have been nice. She wouldn't be, and then the best friend would be like, yes, but I can't leave my husband. Like, I have to go over with my husband, and then the husband would be like, but what about the kids? So then it's your best friends and the kids and that, yeah, it generally. But then a bride and groom just really resentful. No. So it's a wedding, basically, it's almost like a Indian, kind of the Indian way where you're feeding the village, you know, you're feeding. So when we cook, even if it's for 200, you just say, you know, the men eat a lot.

Do people bring them on food as well? No. Oh. And people come hungry. Oh my gosh. They come on empty stomachs. Sometimes they come with lunch boxes. Oh, my goodness.

No. Tupperware to take. Oh, yeah. So we have these little paper. We call them de cougou. And at every wedding, if, like, of course, the family, close family and the ones that are invited, they would have the wedding cake. Then you would order another cake just in case the distant family.

We're talking the cousins. They would have their cake. But then the guests of the guests, they would have de cougou. And they would just take the cuckoo in a plastic bag or in a lunch, a tin. So people bring their tupperware with them. They bring their tub of where with them, yeah. Where was your wedding? It was in our house, actually, in Pretoria where we live.

because we've got, it's like a plot, it's a big garden, and so we just thought, well, we're dancers, we can't really afford getting a venue and it's silly, and the house is here, and we'll always have that memory. So we just did it in the front garden. And music, was there any music? Yes, so South Africa, we've got loads of different music. It was, I mean, we had to mix it.

So there was South African music, which is like Guaito, we love R&B, we had some Latino... What is Guayah? Guido. Guido is like township music that is very big in South Africa. Did any of your family come from township? Yeah, all of the family. We grew up in a township and then later moved out into the suburb. What was your township called?

Mabupani. Okay. Yeah. We have O-T. We have Alison Roman's brilliant recipe that I seem to have cocked up today by making the chicken dry. It's her slow-roasted chicken with tomato. and vinegar and butter and fennel and oregano. And I don't know why it's freaking dry.

But whatever. Enjoy it. Do not worry. Anyway, try and find the most moist of it. Maybe it was meant to be dry. Maybe it wasn't O-T and I'm pissed on. Darling, that's not enough. I should have you.

I'm just taking the sauce because you said it's dry. No, yeah, can you get a bit of the tomato? Okay, and I like the bone. You want the bones. Okay, get that skin. I like the bones. I got the skin. Yeah, great.

Get a bit of that tomato. Would you like some salad and beans? Yes, I would love salad. It's fine, dry it off. Oh, babe, it's... Listen. Listen. I can see it's fucking dry, but you're so sweet.

I try. Talking about going back to when you were younger and the amount of effort it took probably for your mom and dad to support your sister and you to go and be... Three sisters. Oh, so your other sister dance too?

Yeah, and she did Boreham. We did Lett her. She did Boreum. Was that completely inconvenient that she was doing a completely different one? Because she would have different teachers or... Was it all in the same dance school? No, I think they wanted that. She did 10 dance because she just didn't want to compete against her own sister

because they're so similar ages. They have to compete against each other. She didn't like the competitiveness of all of it. And just the tension that creates in a family. Like dance families have a lot of tension and then when you're competing against each other. And she didn't like that. And she was like, I'll just do the ballroom.

Let her do the Latin. But your mum and dad weren't, were they dancers? No. So they just had this love for it? No. And it was a way out of the, like. No. Mutzi had the love for it.

Okay. Mutzi was the one who was like, I want to dance and I love it. And they were like, well, if you, all the sisters doing it, you have to do it too. Because I can't be everywhere all at the same time. Exactly. And the other one,

Pimelo, she didn't really have something that she was obsessed with. So they're like, okay, you'll be obsessed with this as well. So, yeah, and then my mom just became obsessed with her because she just, all she wanted to do was protect her little three black kids. And so she was basically our umbrella, you know? She was like, I'm just going to protect you guys until the end. Protecting, I'm just wondering, regarding the dance schools that you remember, was it black?

Only black kids that you were allowed to dance with? Yeah, by then the rules weren't like that. But it was just the political stance of the country. So, yeah, we were... We did go to white schools, but the dance school was in a black area. It was for black kids because we wanted to... Well, my mom really wanted to uplift the township and give kids something to think about and give us.

You know, we didn't have high-performing centers. We didn't have after-school care. So dance was their little sanctuary But you were, were you encouraged, apartheid had finished. By then, by then. By then. But it still kind of pervades society.

100%. So we would be in the townships, be in the Donschool, live there, and then the competitions were very much white and there were with white judges in white. And did you have mixed couples, black and white? We could dance together? I mean, could we dance together?

Yeah, you could totally. did it dance together. Like, that ended already, I would say, in the 80s. It was slowly started to die out. But the mentality is something that you cannot kill. You know, it's something that still lives on today. But, yeah, so my mom wanted to protect all the kids. She wanted to make sure that the judging systems were fair.

She wanted to make sure that the policies that were creating were fair. The election processes were fair. So she was on top of all of it. And not just her, but it was a group of moms as well who were also protecting their kids. So they felt really passionate about that. She sounds amazing. Yeah, and if you meet her, she's so quiet.

She's so quiet. And she's okay. But she's a strong woman. No, never danced before. Never danced before. So what was her job? Mom. So she didn't work.

Oh, like work, no. No, no. She had a nursery. She was a school principal for that. Then she had a taxed company. Then she had a flower business. Oh my God. Then she had a sewing business.

But now she's like, now she's grandma and she still has the nursery. She must be very proud of you. Extremely proud. She's extremely proud. And I call them every day. I make sure that I talk to them every single day. Quite right. And so she just is like,

can't believe the life that you're living. I just come. Or she'll be just paging through the show and she goes, I saw you on television and everybody's calling me that you're now in Ireland. And I'm like, yeah, I'm in Ireland. And so she's just really proud. And my dad as well, very, very proud. So when you started coming over to Blackpool for the competitions, how old were you?

11. Well, my, it's like your first plane trip to? No, no, no. Where was your first plane trip? I was already competing competitively when I was nine. So that would be. Yeah. How old are we in four?

Wow. Yeah, four. I don't know, because I look at my daughter now, and I think I was a psychopath as a baby because I look at her, and I'm like, she's so small, and she's turning three this year. So it means I started, like, next year, dancing competitively. And I asked my sisters, I'm like,

were you guys lying to me? Like, did she just make up that number? Because I don't know, right? They were like, yeah, you were fault with you. But you have to be very disciplined. We were talking about Jessie's children, and her husband wants the two boys to go to do Jiu-Jitsu because he says the discipline.

You have to, but I can't imagine you disciplining your children to compete at four. I don't think he wants them to compete. No, no, no, no, but I can't imagine being able to discipline the children. Oh, yeah, for them to, like, do as they're told. To be able to do as they were. No one had to discipline me. I wanted it. I literally would sit my family down on a side.

Like we say after dinner, and I'm like, right girls. Showtime. Today your practice was awful. I know, I was three, four, and I'd be like, no, the way you present yourself is not good enough. You're not strong enough. You need to do your arms like this and like this and move your hips like this. And then my mom was like, do you want to try? I was like, try.

I'm going to be amazing at this. And that's how it happened. And they were like, we'll find you a partner, let's go. And then I was like, okay, come to practice. come to practice and I was go go go and they didn't work hard enough for you and yes they didn't and then I found another one and you did and then that's when we said sorry four-year-old you're not working hard enough I need a new partner yes because he'd come and you'd be like I've got a stomach oh sit note get out of here

he's always got excuses and I want to win and yeah so I was just honestly that's what telling you was crazy as a child did you ever come across Johannes and competition. Our whole life against each other. A whole life. But you never partnered him? I was supposed to. Okay.

We were supposed to partner. We had a triad and it was really good. But I was at the point in my life where I had to choose between dancing. I was already South African champ for 10 times at that point. So how old were you at this age? I was 20. I was 20. 10 times?

Yeah. I started competing when I was 10 in South Africa. And so the choices were being engineer, to study civil engineering. At uni? Yeah, at university. And I was going to start working, dance with Jojo and continue competing in South Africa, or leave and go overseas. And I left and I went overseas.

Does your name mean anything? Yeah, my name means. So I have to start with all the first. What was the top, the oldest one? Mozzi means, it's Mozschezi, her full name. Yeah. Which is the one you can rely on. Okay.

Is that correct? Yes, but like now we're all kind of the same age. And so when she gives us the advice, we like, stop. Yeah. It's enough. Stop. But yeah, she definitely is like the older sister, the calm one. Yeah.

And then the middle sister, sorry. The middle sister is called Pimelo, which means the protector. Oh my goodness. So when Mutsi would get bullied at school, Pamela would come to her school and like, fight all the bullies off. Okay. And then the last one is Utile, which means she has arrived. Oh.

So now you get it. Yeah, I do get it. You're not born to it, then. She's arrived. Yeah. Yeah, so they, my parents literally were like, yeah, we're going to name you guys in that way. And I was like, but why did you like my name? Then I just really liked it.

So what language is it in? Sitswana. Sitswana. Yes. And can you speak? Swahna? Yeah, I only speak Zatwana. So it's like a language that natively comes from Botswana.

So my family and heritage would be from Botswana. Okay. Yeah. Mum, what? That looks delicious. Well, yeah, I think it's going to fall apart. That's okay. It's fine. Doesn't look dry like my chickens, so go on. It's definitely not dry. Go on. It's a mango cheesecake.

Oh, I love. And passion fruit. And there's some mango and passion fruit coolie to add on the top. I've never had that before. Oh, M&S, darling. So I put it over or I drink this? You drizzle it. Okay, okay. Shall I give you some?

Yes, please. A lot of some. Okay, you've got a sweet tooth? I've got a very big sweet tooth. I mean, not since the baby, but we're going to try. Okay, well, see how you go. Yeah. Last supper, O-T.

Starter, Maine, Pud, drink of choice. Oh, God. Oh, no. Can I go the other way around? Yeah, sure. dessert I'll go a milk

milk tart do you know a milk tart explain like what kind of milk tart where am I finding it can I find it

in the UK yeah no a peppermint milk tart oh peppermint milk tart it's milk it's milk it peppermint

yeah and the base is tennis biscuits then it is which biscuits tennis biscuits what are they stop it does anyone else

not a tennis biscuit is it like a digestive Where on earth am I? I want to live your life. You've never eaten a tennis biscuit? No, what's a tennis biscuit? It's a biscuit for tennis place. I'm joking.

I'm Googling this. It's like a square biscuit. It is, I think it's made by bakers. You do get it here in the UK, because my daughter's obsessed with it, and it's coconut flavored. What? But not like, obviously, coconut beans.

Never seen these, but I like the packaging. Are they kind of like milky, multed milk. Are they like the malted ones? No, it's like a less intense digestive. Okay. But it's really nice. It's almost like a... It's very retro packaging. Yeah, that. Like, almost like

a much classier, which other ones you get at the hotel? Leibniz. No. Lotus. Lotus. The ones you get in the hairdresser. Yeah. We love them. But like a much classier one. Wow. So that would be the base with butter. Where was the first time that you had a tennis best?

skip. Is it in South Africa? Maybe my mother's womb? Okay. So is it South, is it South African thing? Yes, fine, okay, cool. Because you know we love anchovet in this house? Do you know what's anchovet? No. It's an anchovy spread.

Oh no. I've just paid 19 pounds to get two small things. That's, that's daylight robbery. From South Africa. It's a South African fish paste. No, I've not had that. Okay, well, you take the anchovet and I'll take the tennis. You have to get the tennis.

Okay, so you're going tennis biscuit base. Yeah, and then you get buttercream or condensed milk. Yeah. And you boil that until it's really mixed together. And then you put it over the tennis biscuits and then you put it in the freezer for about three, four hours. And then you spread the peppermint crisp. You know peppermint crisp? Chocolate.

Oh, yeah, okay. Like not like an after-eight, but it is like an after-eight. Okay. But it's proper like... It's like a crunchy, but inside it's peppermint. Oh, yeah. Can you get them in the UK? Yes.

Has anyone had a peppermane crisp here? Yeah. Okay, fine, okay. You need to come hang with me. Okay. You all probably get diabetes, but we'll be five. So this is okay. And then you put that in the, so it's a non-bake dessert.

Okay. Or you can put cinnamon. This is a non-baked dessert as well. So then you can put cinnamon over and it's divided. It's like a cheesecake. How lucky that we're doing a cheese dessert? take today. This is delicious, Mom. Do you like it? Wow. Where did you get the idea of

the mango? It was a recipe on Mawks and Spence's website. On Mawkes and Spencer's website. And what's in the base? Ginger nut biscuit. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so we forgot your put. At the moment, I'm obsessed with lasagna.

There's nothing quite like a good lasagna. But it has to be in an Italian place with an Italian chef. Okay. And you can taste when it's been like in the pot for hours and it's been... Do you like that? Love it.

Do you like it wet or quite dry? Wet. I like, oozing. Like the cheese. Like when you... Your children don't like it. I like it oozy. I love it.

Like when you put the fork, it goes... I'm like, yeah, it just comes apart. Love that. So where have you had your best lasagna recently? I don't know the name of the restaurant. But it is a rest, it is, it's in COVID gardens. Do you know where the Hippadron Casino is? Like Magic Mike.

Yeah. If you cross the road. Yeah. There's a little Italian there. Little, like everyone's like a little Italian family. Okay. I don't know the name, but it is, it was so good. I got two.

Good for you. Right. I got two. Well, there's small portions. Yeah. You know. It's like it's me and the baby. Yeah.

The baby likes Susanna. I never, though. eat asana. I never eat Italian food, except if I'm in Italy, because I don't know where to go, right? So I feel like anywhere you go in Italy, the food would be great. But here's sort of hit and miss. But I was in that restaurant and I did not want to leave. It was stunning. Okay, so we've got a cheesecake. We've got, we've got a lasagna. Where's the starter? Where's the start and what's the drink? The starter, can I go for coquette? Yeah. Is that weird? No. What's that? Croquette? Oh, what's salt?

Or a ham and cheese? No, just cheese. Where are you having them? In Spain? I'm having them in Greece. Oh, with truffle over. Where were you fancy pants? Where did you have these?

Micanos or somewhere? No, in Athens. Oh. And they were very affordable. Mmm. It was right by the beach. They love a croquette, don't they? Oh, it was like three cheese croquette.

Delicious. And over it, they had a layer of truffle and then a rounded honey. It's the honey and cheeks that just does it for me. Delish. I was in heaven. If you were having a dinner party, who would you like to come? Dead or alive?

Oh, gosh. Beyonce. Beyonce? Does she wiggle her bum well? She's so well. She's the queen of bum wiggling. She's a great dancer. She's a great dancer.

It has to be a technical expression. It's a noun. But I guess. You get you, mom. For you, we'll say yes it is. But she did go to Africa to learn it, didn't she? Yeah, she went to Gambia or Ghana. Yeah.

I think so, but then she brought South Africans over to... Oh, did she? To dance. Yeah, South Korea Zimbabwe's in her videos. So she was really... So I would have Beyonce. Yeah. I would have Michelle Obama.

Yeah. As well. I'd have Alison Hammond, of course. Because she's fun. Yes. How many of my... loud. You can have your

all women or any men? Okay, you're not having any men? No, I'm married one I'm fine. No man. I'd have Jesse

Thank you for some dry chicken We're all need to have some dry chicken once in our life for some tomato I'm so hardbroken Just for the vibes

Do you know what I mean? Yeah, you bring your Perrier Who likes Bone? I'm like We bring And please bring the chicken

I'm devastating I'd have Nelson Mandela Nelson Mandela Wasn't he a god in your family? He was a god in the whole country But that's controversial because you can't just bring him along You need to bring him it, Winnie? Yeah

I think she was good fun probably You know what I mean? She was a bad girl but I think she was good fun Like the way she's spoken about in the UK or the rest of the world And the way she's spoken about in South Africa It's just like worlds apart So we grew up with her being the hero, the actual warrior in the streets walking around.

To try and get him freed and bring, keeping in the life. Yeah, but other things as well, you know, like other army things as well. And how she got treated was just always put in the background. So I'd have to have both of them. But I still wouldn't have them because I need the conversation to go that way. Okay, you know? I still, I think like I read, my dad made me, when we were naughty, my dad would make us read a long walk to freedom.

When you were naughty. Yeah, so that's where my love of books came from. It is a great book. It is a really good book, but it's long. We read that one, you know, the thick one? The one that you can't even open the book. Before we let you go, one nostalgic taste that can transport you back somewhere. Okay.

It's not nostalgic, but I do think it's just weird. We had shark. Shark When I think 13 years ago The first trip my husband took me Was to Iceland

Which I was like Me and this guy are not going to last Because why would you take an African girl To the coldest country in the world And we had shark With some shots Fodka shots And it was the best experience

Of my love It tasted horrendous But the people of Iceland and the occasion and the food and the so we had food we all had food and they went you know what we got some shark you want to try some shark and I was like yeah and then we had the shot and then we had loads of shots afterwards so I feel like the occasion I will always remember Iceland for that it was freezing cold I got blown down the hill because of the wind then we went to a lagoon

and then we went to a spa and the people were just incredible and I remember it was all based of us sharing and me just saying okay I'll eat the shark and just accepting their culture and their food and their ways then I always remember that and it made you realise that maybe you love this guy

that you could be in a cold place and it could work out okay no no we still argue about that I sleep near the heater he sleeps by the window what's the dance that you'll do when you make up If you're fighting, what's the dance? Will you be like, will you just get them rumber hips out? Salza?

Salsa. You can't be grumpy with a salsa, can you? You can't be grumpy with a salsa. It's a local dance that you could do in the streets. You don't need to have a choreography. Most of the other ones, you kind of do need to know where he's going. But the salsa is all in his hands, and it's all in me to decide whether I go or not. So I make the choice.

And it's any music, you can be fast, can be slow, can be romantic, can be raunchy. As long as he's leading and I follow, that's how it works for the soul stuff. I love that. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Thank you for having me. And best of luck with the rest of the pregnancy. Yes, thank you. Thank you for having me as well.

It's such an amazing. It's fun. Otee Mabusi. Love her. Gorgeous woman. She really did arrive into the world being fabulous, didn't she? She did. She just fabulous.

Fun, warm. hardworking. Yeah. From the age of four. I can't actually. Competing. My children are idle. Yeah.

Idle children. Lazy buggers. Yeah. Lazy children you've got, Jesse, compared to the Mabusi family. I know. They are quite high achievers. Yeah, I know.

And she was going to go to uni and do engineering. I'm just like, oh yeah, just that on the side, a bit of engineering on the side, sure. Clever. And right now a novelist. I know. It's really... I can see what she's written about on film,

Can't you? Yeah, totally. Yeah. She's fab. Really loved having her on. She's a really impressive, brilliant human and... Enthusiasmic eater. Enthusiasmate eater.

I'm really annoyed that my chicken was dry. Never mind, darling. It's just annoying. So do I need to just not do it for as long, Alison Roman? Or was the chicken not big enough? I don't know. I cooked it for less time when I cooked it. I cut it for two hours.

And I felt that was overdoing it as well. Shit oven. I'm getting a new oven. I'm done with my oven. I'm like, I'm ready to break up with it. How are you going to get you a new oven? You'll have to get a whole new cooker. This is a conversation for another time. Thank you to Otee Mabusi for coming on. You can go and read her book Slow Burn. Or you can go and watch her documentary on Channel 4 with Reverend Richard Coles, which is out, I think, in the summer. I think it's in July, so it's not out yet. But thanks Ote for coming on. And congratulations on having another baby. She looks amazing. She looks gorgeous.

We'll see you next week for more table names.